The absolutely fastest and most accurate method for aligning the lathe tailstock, thank you for sharing. I was taught this by a machinist from Maine back in 1982. I have shared this with many. Paying it forward just as you, very good video. Cheers!
Great video, right up to the point where you say that you need to bring the tailstock back half the offset shown on the indicator when using a test bar. The reason you use HALF the difference when TURNING a bar, as you do in the first half of the video, is that you measure differences in DIAMETER, which changes by twice the tail stock offset. But when using a test bar, you are measuring the RADIUS, so you shouldn’t divide the measurement. You also don’t have to move your indicator to the tail stock like you do when turning your own bar. Leaving it in place on the test bar while you adjust the tail stock to zero on the indicator is much easier and also illustrates that you need to use all of the indicated difference (making the indicator read 0 at both ends of the bar).
Hi , thanks for a great video. I ask the question should not the tail stock dial gauge measurement be taken against the machined work piece at the tail stock end surface. this will directly measure the run out adjustment that caused the misalignment at the "cut">
Hi Charles, that will work also as long as you are on center. I like the large flat surface of the tail stock and it is not in the way of the machining. Thanks for watching.
Pretty much the problem I have at school. Nice way to easely fix the problem. Pretty sure it will only fix it at this exact lenght thou. And possibly for that diameter if your tail stock is too low or too high. Thanks. Good vid for that issue are hard to find.
That was an awesome Video, most practical way of fixing a lathe up especially if you're on the clock. Nobody has a very expensive mitutoyo level, or the time to dick around in the dark. Get out your dial and tools, make some adjustments and then get to turning. Chances are you are taking some finishing cuts on a shaft or something when you find out you're out of tolerance. Get it done or go home, the boss is waiting....
At the end of the the video where you measure the ground bar at the spindle with the dial and run it down to the stock center you said it moved away .003". You then say it needs to be moved forward half that distance to bring it into alignment with the spindle. That wasn't correct, you need to move it back the whole .003. Other than that - great video and explanation. Thanks
Your initial test run is adequate. But! The placement of your dial indicator should be placed at the first witness cut you did and not on the body of the tail stock. As you need to make the correction at the cut itself. Placing the indicator further out like you did results in a compounded error. Therefore your method will require several further test cuts. But the first thing to do is to make sure the saddle is actually still running truly parallel to the bed. Wear on the ways will still throw you off depending on the length of your saddle travel as per the job in place will require. I realize that at the time I write my comment and the posted date of the video, there is a six year gap!
Well what you've shown will work it's a bit too limited for information. Before doing what you've shown the lathe bed needs to be trued or any twist taken out. Easiest method is using a high precision machinists level. With that done the headstock needs checking to be sure it's correctly aligned with the lathe bed. 90 degrees in both the vertical and horizontal direction. That can be done using the two collar method. Google it. And it's extremely doubtful that headstock center didn't have some measurable runout. Better to chuck up a piece of scrap material and cut a 60 degree center on it so it's as concentric as the machines bearings will allow. You then need to indicate the tailstocks ram for up/down and left/right to be sure it's true with the ram extended and locked. After all that then yes what you've shown will work to align the tailstock correctly. But any wear or inaccuracy of the bed grinding is still an issue. The subject is a whole lot more complex than I've mentioned and Googleing and fully reading what Dr. Georg Schlesinger had to say about testing machine tools would be a good starter. My first lathe had a non adjustable tailstock. Even leveled using a very expensive Mitutoyo precision level it still required a very minor amount of bed adjustment to get it to turn parallel end to end. And very few to maybe no lathes no matter how expensive have a tailstock that stays 100% aligned down the length of the bed. And those are brand new. Add in normal wear after a few years and you will see changes from where your correct adjustment was to a different tailstock position on the lathe bed. There's a whole hell of a lot to this that isn't understood as well as it should be by far too many on YT and the machining forums.
Sounds like the things you mentioned would only really come into play in high or super high precision work. Most at home or hobbyist machinists rarely if ever need that level of precision. This sounds like a basic procedure that will get a level of straightness that will suit most applications not requiring super high precision. Of course older machines are going to have run out and such but if your skill set is half way decent you learn how to work with that kind of stuff.
Nope, what I mentioned is just basic set up for any lathe you expect to turn parallel. And certainly running the full set of Schlesingers tests should be SOP for any new or used machine you buy. I mounted my first lathe (a little Emco compact 5) on a 1" thick steel plate. With some adjustments had it within 2/10ths over 12" Sadly with the standard stick built type floor construction my shop floor has it would only keep those adjustments over a few hrs until the temperature and/or humidity changed a few points. I don't consider what I did as pushing the limits of high precision at all. Exact part size to a few 10ths may be of less importance in a hobbists shop, but I do disagree that it's unimportant not to have a machine properly set up so it's movements are as close as possible. Model steam or IC engines produce very little power given that you can't scale physics. Correct machine tool alignment is just part of what goes into building one that operates as well as it should. More than a few people are trying to set records with model competitive engines both IC and flash steam with home built designs. You can bet they've had to learn to set up there equipment and compensate for the equipment's inaccuracys as well. It really doesn't take that long once you understand the order to do it in and what effect those adjustments will have. I also had a really poorly machined Seig C6 that broke every tip off of every center drill used in the tailstock. Then I didn't know enough to run the proper checks as soon as I got it. An indicator on the tailstocks quill showed it pointing uphill over .009" in just over 2". Without that check and remachining the tailstock would have been unusable. Add maybe 2" for a drill chuck, then lets say another 4" for a reamer and then try reaming a straight hole with a tailstock that far out and you get a seriously tapered hole.The less you pay for a machine the more checks you have to do. And you can't properly compensate for those inaccurcy's unless you know where and how much they are. The very first step done in industry while installing a new machine is proper alignment and accuracy checks to verify the machine is correct. And these are very heavily built and rigid machines. Yet we expect our somewhat limp noodle machines in home shops to get bolted down and produce good results? Sorry it just ain't that easy and my tests show that more than well enough at least to myself. A bit of educated tuning can make some huge differences in what a machine can produce. What does take the time is learning how and what needs to be done. I've spent years learning the little I do know. There's probably more misinformation on the hobbist's forums and YT about machine tool alignment than there is correct information. Unless your parts are being checked as good enough with a tape measure then those checks and alignments are required.
Turning Point, I 100% agree with you. If the lathe is not accurately setup to start you can set the tailstock all day and never get it right. Your post is the first step, or a check if the lathe is not responding correctly. My video only speaks to aligning a tailstock that has been moved off of center. Thanks for taking the time to write about this important first step!
+Turning Point Of course you are right in what say, but you were talking about an unknown/new to you machine. I never took this video as that. I thought it was inferred that he was familiar with his machine and he said this method can be used for turning tapers w/o a taper attachment available. Seems like you know your stuff and are willing to share, if you believe there's that much misinformation on YT have you ever considered starting your own channel to try and curve that problem. You prob could have shot one in not to much more time than it took to type all that especially if you type as fast as I do. =) Thanks for the vid machiningmoments.
LOL, I type more than slow. And I'm just barely computer smart enough to get YT to come up. Shooting a video is the easy part. Editing and uploading is very likely way outside my limits. But thanks for the vote of confidence. I have thought about it and maybe someday. It's taken me years to find the little I think I might know about machine tool alignment. Bits and pieces here and there is what takes the time. Those Schlesinger tests and maybe the Machine Tool Reconditioning book are a good start though. That misinformation or maybe a better term would be misunderstood information would explain a bit better about what I was meaning. Lathe leveling is a prime example on the forums. All your doing is using the easiest method of getting the lathes bed into an unstressed condition. Half decent lathes would have had the bare lathe bed ground on a carefully leveled grinder so your just trying to set it up the way it would have been when it was first ground. The lathe could be at a 45 degree angle as long as the bed was straight and it would still work accurately. Testing with a good level is just the easiest method. There's no real magic in the level part. At-Man Unlimited has an extremely good series of videos about properly aligning a Fadal cnc bed mill and most of what's there could be applied to almost any mill. There's very few videos around with that high level of information. I can say my equipment seemed a whole lot better when I knew a bit less though. :-)
The absolutely fastest and most accurate method for aligning the lathe tailstock, thank you for sharing. I was taught this by a machinist from Maine back in 1982. I have shared this with many. Paying it forward just as you, very good video. Cheers!
Hi Larry, I really respect someone who takes the time to teach the next generation! Good on ya! Thanks for watching and leaving a note.
Great video, right up to the point where you say that you need to bring the tailstock back half the offset shown on the indicator when using a test bar.
The reason you use HALF the difference when TURNING a bar, as you do in the first half of the video, is that you measure differences in DIAMETER, which changes by twice the tail stock offset. But when using a test bar, you are measuring the RADIUS, so you shouldn’t divide the measurement.
You also don’t have to move your indicator to the tail stock like you do when turning your own bar. Leaving it in place on the test bar while you adjust the tail stock to zero on the indicator is much easier and also illustrates that you need to use all of the indicated difference (making the indicator read 0 at both ends of the bar).
My mistake, thanks for the correction!
Excellent! Easier and more simple is better
Thank you for your tutorial regarding tailstock alignment. Very clear and concise
Thanks for watching and posting Brian.
Exactly the problem I am having and the explanation couldn't be better. Mega awesome, thanks!
Thanks for watching and leaving a note.
Thanks man, great video with nice, clear instructions and visuals. 👍
I'm glad it helped. Thank you for watching and posting.
Great explanation. Now mi tailstock is aligned. Thank you
I'm glad it helped. It works much better when the tailback is aligned. Thanks for your note and for watching.
Excellent video, thank you!
Thank you, I appreciate you watching.
You're a very good teacher, subscribed.
Thank you for your kind words and thanks for watching.
Me also subscibe
Just I want to learn !Thank you so much!
I'm glad you stopped by and watched the video. So glad to hear you enjoy learning. Thanks for leaving a message.
Thank you, a very clear method.
Thanks for your note glad you watched!
Just found your channel and Subscribed. Very nice
I'm glad you like it. Thanks for watching and your message.
That helped me out thank you buddy
I'm glad you found it helpful. Thank you for your note.
Great info!
Thanks you for watching.
Great video
I'm glad you liked it, thanks for watching.
Great video thanks
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for watching
Hi ,
thanks for a great video.
I ask the question should not the tail stock dial gauge measurement be taken against the machined work piece at the tail stock end surface. this will directly measure the run out adjustment that caused the misalignment at the "cut">
Hi Charles, that will work also as long as you are on center. I like the large flat surface of the tail stock and it is not in the way of the machining. Thanks for watching.
Pretty much the problem I have at school. Nice way to easely fix the problem.
Pretty sure it will only fix it at this exact lenght thou. And possibly for that diameter if your tail stock is too low or too high.
Thanks. Good vid for that issue are hard to find.
Glad it helped. This can be tricky if the bed has a twist in it.
Thank you...works great now.
Awesome, glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
Ours has identical tail stock making it easier. Im down to .0025 runnout in 15". Good enough for now...thanks
That was an awesome Video, most practical way of fixing a lathe up especially if you're on the clock. Nobody has a very expensive mitutoyo level, or the time to dick around in the dark. Get out your dial and tools, make some adjustments and then get to turning. Chances are you are taking some finishing cuts on a shaft or something when you find out you're out of tolerance. Get it done or go home, the boss is waiting....
Thanks Tim, its fast and often close enough!
My greeting from iraq well done
Thank you. It is always a pleasure hearing from people around the world.
Is this accurate if it’s not between centres? I’ve seen this topic covered multiple times but it’s always between centres.
Between centers would be ideal, then you need a drive dog. This video showed aligning the tailstock to the chuck. Thank you for watching.
I am using ordinary lathe machine & the problem is turning taper making but i want accurate
Do you have a taper turning attachment? That is the best solution to turn a taper in a lathe.
The 2 methods you demonstrate, which one is more accurate?
I prefer holding the part by it's centers rather than the chuck. That represents the spindles axis.
machiningmoments thank you for a quick reply 👍👍👍
Why use the 3 jaw? Why not turn on centers?
The focus was on adjusting the tailstock, center and a lathe dog would have been a better setup.
At the end of the the video where you measure the ground bar at the spindle with the dial and run it down to the stock center you said it moved away .003". You then say it needs to be moved forward half that distance to bring it into alignment with the spindle. That wasn't correct, you need to move it back the whole .003. Other than that - great video and explanation. Thanks
Thanks
Your initial test run is adequate. But! The placement of your dial indicator should be placed at the first witness cut you did and not on the body of the tail stock. As you need to make the correction at the cut itself. Placing the indicator further out like you did results in a compounded error. Therefore your method will require several further test cuts.
But the first thing to do is to make sure the saddle is actually still running truly parallel to the bed. Wear on the ways will still throw you off depending on the length of your saddle travel as per the job in place will require.
I realize that at the time I write my comment and the posted date of the video, there is a six year gap!
Thanks for watching and your observations.
what micrometer is that?
It is a 0-1inch Starrett micrometer.
Is that the very cholchester 15" from spectra physics I ran like a top fueler making that baby sing,makin a river of chips?
'
It's a Colchester, I'm in Canada.
With the first method the tailstock will have to bend the rood. It's not a straight line from the chuck to the live center.
What lathe is this? I’m sure it’s the same as the one I’m using. Mine has a DRO fitted though..
Colchester
machiningmoments yes, it’s the same :) I’m in the U.K. Were they made in USA or U.K.?
I believe they are a British lathe.
why wouldn't you put the indicator on the tail stock cut instead of the tail stock ? just asking
It is the tail stock that needs to move.
colchester👍
Great lathe
Tm🖒💚💚💚🌳⚘
Thank you for watching.
ok
Well what you've shown will work it's a bit too limited for information. Before doing what you've shown the lathe bed needs to be trued or any twist taken out. Easiest method is using a high precision machinists level. With that done the headstock needs checking to be sure it's correctly aligned with the lathe bed. 90 degrees in both the vertical and horizontal direction. That can be done using the two collar method. Google it. And it's extremely doubtful that headstock center didn't have some measurable runout. Better to chuck up a piece of scrap material and cut a 60 degree center on it so it's as concentric as the machines bearings will allow. You then need to indicate the tailstocks ram for up/down and left/right to be sure it's true with the ram extended and locked. After all that then yes what you've shown will work to align the tailstock correctly. But any wear or inaccuracy of the bed grinding is still an issue. The subject is a whole lot more complex than I've mentioned and Googleing and fully reading what Dr. Georg Schlesinger had to say about testing machine tools would be a good starter. My first lathe had a non adjustable tailstock. Even leveled using a very expensive Mitutoyo precision level it still required a very minor amount of bed adjustment to get it to turn parallel end to end. And very few to maybe no lathes no matter how expensive have a tailstock that stays 100% aligned down the length of the bed. And those are brand new. Add in normal wear after a few years and you will see changes from where your correct adjustment was to a different tailstock position on the lathe bed. There's a whole hell of a lot to this that isn't understood as well as it should be by far too many on YT and the machining forums.
Sounds like the things you mentioned would only really come into play in high or super high precision work. Most at home or hobbyist machinists rarely if ever need that level of precision. This sounds like a basic procedure that will get a level of straightness that will suit most applications not requiring super high precision. Of course older machines are going to have run out and such but if your skill set is half way decent you learn how to work with that kind of stuff.
Nope, what I mentioned is just basic set up for any lathe you expect to turn parallel. And certainly running the full set of Schlesingers tests should be SOP for any new or used machine you buy. I mounted my first lathe (a little Emco compact 5) on a 1" thick steel plate. With some adjustments had it within 2/10ths over 12" Sadly with the standard stick built type floor construction my shop floor has it would only keep those adjustments over a few hrs until the temperature and/or humidity changed a few points. I don't consider what I did as pushing the limits of high precision at all. Exact part size to a few 10ths may be of less importance in a hobbists shop, but I do disagree that it's unimportant not to have a machine properly set up so it's movements are as close as possible. Model steam or IC engines produce very little power given that you can't scale physics. Correct machine tool alignment is just part of what goes into building one that operates as well as it should. More than a few people are trying to set records with model competitive engines both IC and flash steam with home built designs. You can bet they've had to learn to set up there equipment and compensate for the equipment's inaccuracys as well. It really doesn't take that long once you understand the order to do it in and what effect those adjustments will have.
I also had a really poorly machined Seig C6 that broke every tip off of every center drill used in the tailstock. Then I didn't know enough to run the proper checks as soon as I got it. An indicator on the tailstocks quill showed it pointing uphill over .009" in just over 2". Without that check and remachining the tailstock would have been unusable. Add maybe 2" for a drill chuck, then lets say another 4" for a reamer and then try reaming a straight hole with a tailstock that far out and you get a seriously tapered hole.The less you pay for a machine the more checks you have to do. And you can't properly compensate for those inaccurcy's unless you know where and how much they are. The very first step done in industry while installing a new machine is proper alignment and accuracy checks to verify the machine is correct. And these are very heavily built and rigid machines. Yet we expect our somewhat limp noodle machines in home shops to get bolted down and produce good results? Sorry it just ain't that easy and my tests show that more than well enough at least to myself. A bit of educated tuning can make some huge differences in what a machine can produce. What does take the time is learning how and what needs to be done. I've spent years learning the little I do know. There's probably more misinformation on the hobbist's forums and YT about machine tool alignment than there is correct information. Unless your parts are being checked as good enough with a tape measure then those checks and alignments are required.
Turning Point, I 100% agree with you. If the lathe is not accurately setup to start you can set the tailstock all day and never get it right. Your post is the first step, or a check if the lathe is not responding correctly. My video only speaks to aligning a tailstock that has been moved off of center. Thanks for taking the time to write about this important first step!
+Turning Point Of course you are right in what say, but you were talking about an unknown/new to you machine. I never took this video as that. I thought it was inferred that he was familiar with his machine and he said this method can be used for turning tapers w/o a taper attachment available. Seems like you know your stuff and are willing to share, if you believe there's that much misinformation on YT have you ever considered starting your own channel to try and curve that problem. You prob could have shot one in not to much more time than it took to type all that especially if you type as fast as I do. =)
Thanks for the vid machiningmoments.
LOL, I type more than slow. And I'm just barely computer smart enough to get YT to come up. Shooting a video is the easy part. Editing and uploading is very likely way outside my limits. But thanks for the vote of confidence. I have thought about it and maybe someday.
It's taken me years to find the little I think I might know about machine tool alignment. Bits and pieces here and there is what takes the time. Those Schlesinger tests and maybe the Machine Tool Reconditioning book are a good start though. That misinformation or maybe a better term would be misunderstood information would explain a bit better about what I was meaning. Lathe leveling is a prime example on the forums. All your doing is using the easiest method of getting the lathes bed into an unstressed condition. Half decent lathes would have had the bare lathe bed ground on a carefully leveled grinder so your just trying to set it up the way it would have been when it was first ground. The lathe could be at a 45 degree angle as long as the bed was straight and it would still work accurately. Testing with a good level is just the easiest method. There's no real magic in the level part.
At-Man Unlimited has an extremely good series of videos about properly aligning a Fadal cnc bed mill and most of what's there could be applied to almost any mill. There's very few videos around with that high level of information. I can say my equipment seemed a whole lot better when I knew a bit less though. :-)