An Entire Civilization Countered By One Unit
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2023
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#ageofempires #ageofempires4 #aoe4 - Hry
SoldieR won this game twice, but then just sat around with triple the military and let his opponent rebuild. If he'd pressed his advantage either time, he wins.
he had bad army composition though. Too diverse. Something like knight crossbow horsemen would have been most ideal.
That is exactly my weak point as well. I seem to push multiple times, deleting my enemies army, but then cant push further into the base.
@@RealShaun Goes to show that winning a battle doesn't always mean winning the war. Even though divine lost that battle he still had the superior composition and economic ability to bounce back immediately. This is part and parcel with his collection of superior decisions.
I feel like OotD was designed to be a civ specifically for low-to-intermediate level players to pick up easily and maybe its power-ceiling being really low is intentional cos the devs think that high level players would complain if a "dumb civ" was anywhere close to top tier. But then again it really sucks that it was the HRE variant that got this treatment cos HRE needs some love rn
that's the neat part. ootd is not an easy civ to play. the economy is awful and kinda hard to balance (especially early on) compared to other civs since no real eco bonuses AND your vills are slower and more expensive to train. not to mention "quality over quantity" doesn't really work for them, which leads to previous point, since your economy is bad no matter what you do, you can't effectively replenish your losses, well, the list can go on and on...
@@Trevil1337 I think the idea is that low level players aren't really taking full advantage of eco bonuses anyway, so a flat universal gathering bonus you don't need to set up probably benefits low level players more
@@CloudCuckooCountry i would agree if not for longer train times and higher cost (oh AND the handcart). so basically ootd economy doesn't prepare new players how to balance your eco, since when they move to other civs, they'll struggle real hard to figure their eco out, and out of all civs i'd say only ootd (and hre) stand out with their vills
@CloudCuckooCountry I think that's the principle behind French's villager production bonus, which you can get without doing anything particular. That makes French and England as one of the easiest civs to get into.
But ootd doesn't get bonus, they get more efficient workers but they are slower to produce accordingly. So they are just bit more pop efficient than other civs, and that's all. Not easy to scale like Chinese or French, not very efficient like HRE vills. 😢
I don't know why they would wash out older civs by releasing new variants instead of just brand new civs. Seems incredibly lazy.
I'm already terrible at this game, but OOTD just made it unfun to lose. Swapped to Japanese and holy crap those are fun games. (Still lost)
OotD forces you to build a strong economy just to make like 4 units that will get beaten by mass archers.
Economy for OotD makes no sense for how underwhelming their units are
Feel bad for the order of the dragon
Yea it sucks atm and will be hard to tune, because one bad balance update could shift scales from UP to OP... its interesting what changes await ootd in terms of balance. Maybe adding more power to their wonders / technologies would be a fine change or giving them fortified wood walls to make it easier to protect ootd villagers, because I feel they are fine, but another problem is that you have protect them more - losing vils is painful as ootd compared to any other civ, also the overkilling problem... maybe to prevent this ootd units could shift some power to having more attack speed or some unique tech at imperial "take 20% less damage from gunpowder units"
OoTD need a complete rework according to me, the double pop space extra stats and slower build time is not something that is a strenght in Aoe4 without some serious changes to the meta.
i would scrap their extra cost extra build time extra stats for some really game changing upgrades that you could pick, that gave them different focus, cav, ranged, or melee.
Ranged gives you slightly better archery range units, withsome choice speficic upgrades that are Bonkers and similar for the barracks and cavalry.
but you can only choose one
i love all your references, you are a master caster
That story about you and your pops playing games all night is so wholesome and cute. W dad 🙏🏻
Double strength/price units sounded great on paper, then I learned that they also cost twice as much population and that kills them for me. You become a lot less dynamic and are forced to make a protoss death ball every time, even then they get their asses kicked half the time
I mean it would be utterly busted if same pop lol
Drongo I really enjoy your play-by-play sports-style commentary. You make these match videos so fun and exciting to watch. You are truly the VOICE of this franchise!
in case of power outage: yes Drongo you are definitely editing yourself in
Drongo, you forgot the most powerful order of the dragon unit, gilded hand cannoneer
Which over kill everything?? Cannoneer is already expensive...on ootd its even expensive ffs
My very first computer game was Total Annihilation. That was where my passion for RTS games began, at 8 years old. That game was so good.
What was your pseudo on Warzone ? :D
@@alexandrebastide323 I don't play warzone. You got the wrong dude lol.
New drinking game.....take a shot everytime Drongo says macro police
OOTD units are so damn expensive it doesn't really leave room for siege. they cost the same amount as a siege unit would, so its hard to have that on the field to pop some buildings after (Gold player)
I hope mr qt keeps casting your dented games hehe
Drongo extra sassy in this cast 😅
Every time I see the civilization "Order of the Dragon" I think of GOT and House Targaryen.
What a surprise...
You can say OOTD is a weak civ all you like, but it still feels like Soldier threw that
exactly
Come on, that's the point! You can outplay your opponent and still you lose with OOTD because the civ is garbage.
He had the military advantage, and it should have been pretty clear to him. All he had to do was make some siege, but instead, every time he won a battle, he just retreated back to his base. He's clearly a pretty good player to be able to get to that position in the first place (much better than I'll ever be), but I'm pretty sure that looking back on the game, he'd probably agree it was an opportunity not taken
my god i was really hoping order of the dragon would be an amazing civ but each civ gets villager bonus comparable to ootd without increased queue time for production. Its just disheartning. I think the only way ootd could be balanced is that they should be given prelate bonus too along with villager bonus
what about just letting them produce their villagers at the standard rate of 20s? It'll be their eco buff since they dont have any other ones.
if the would design the villagers really close to the numbers of the AOE3 coureur des bois it should be fine. or make them produce with the same queue time and give the option to research their special ootd bonuses of faster gathering rate and stuff in the mill from feudal age on ...
The Gilded mma still switching to an axe intermittently... Havnt heard drongo mention that yet. Weird bug.
aye drongo, cant you hear , cant you hear the thunder?
the order xbows got more dps out against spearmen than archers, i guess they found some snowbally at increasing the x1.5 damage they gave to all other units, but there is not even extra damage, as if the extra range armor on castle age compensates, for the disparity with every other unit,
personally i liked the gilded spearman oppening for any other faction that is not the english and china/juicy legacy, and depending if the enemy got horse landmark, make a stable on your own to trade villages and get a quagmire of your own. an archery if they got no horses with some man at arms and u can dance inside their tc for shit n giggles. bronze league legends ftw.
ı REALLY FEEL BAD FOR otd
In Starcraft, Protoss has to rely on defensive base building to compensate their low numbers. Because less units in quantity = less map presence, however how strong the units may be = less ability to respond to raids. On the upside, "quality over quantity" factions like Order or Protoss have, theorically, the best "super late game deathball". But for them to work, the game has to provide them tools to endure raids and harass the opponent enough, in order to give them a decent chance to survive until that "deathball" point.
Maybe Order needs a bonus that allows them to build more/better defenses near their bases? With the influence system already there in HRE (for emergency repair ability), that would be fairly easy to implement. ...Or maybe an extra way to protect the villagers, like hiding them in houses?
i do agree but unfortunately the units cost 2x, take 2x pop and their units do not have 2x stats. Its less than 2x and i think numbers make difference, especially late game which u'll NEVER have more than the enemy and the enemy will always have double numbers at the same production speed while ur units will have less than 2x the strenght/defense etc. Imo i think this civ needs a slight buff not on the units, but on their technology, since their feudal age CAN be very strong. and i think late game they should surpass the 2x stats of normal units. if you think ab it... making mass siege is more efficient than units at this rate as OOTD especially late game.
the only comp i think that can work as OOTD is mass spears/ siege as main comp/ few men at arms and crossbow or archers
Ootd in team game are already OP , they generally spam only 1 unit and win the game being that strong ,
The problem of ootd is making trabuchet mangonels ecc , their pop is too low . To afford to make those ,
on a fight u cant win on equal or 1.5 more value, i really believe they need a bit buff on their technologies( i wont talk ab vils technologies cuz of the palace at age 4 can be huge af) i do think giving away 6 units to make 4 mangonels will give you the "break through" enemy front line cuz u'll never reach the backline with these 6 units. and i think its cost efficient . @@ilgiallo0
I've no idea ab team games, havent played since last season
@@ilgiallo0 Very much illustrates my point, as team games is the environment where players can go hyper late game and build the ultimate "deathballs".
So what they need is something that would help them to survive in 1v1 long enough to reach the late game, but wouldn't chnage things that much in team games. Somehow.
I think OotD is more about harassment than a Protoss-style death ball
Need those beefy units in enemy base as long as they could to negate the inherent eco disadvantage, like Mongols.
Unfortunately, English is born for base defense.
Winter is the best biome!
anyone struggling agains ootd with some civs in feudal age? cuz im japanese main and its seems impossible to hold feudal push agains
LOVEEEEE thiiis
I think it would be better if the order units be like 20% cheaper and cost 1 pop i think this is very good but to the order
Give ootd double blacksmith upgrades
Huge gold float from Order player. 2000 gold and just not enough food and wood.
Initially I thought, like everyone, that OOTD units will be too powerful, but then I looked at the numbers and realized that was not gonna be the case at all. If you break down their stats, you will realize they never have everything doubled. Some units have the DPS doubled, some have the HP doubled. Basically, their size being half of the normal units per population is considered an advantage which leads to them being nerfed in other areas. And it's the worst when it comes to MAA, the HRE MAA gets about 21 DPS (fully upgraded) while the Gilded MAA gets 26. That's just awful as a unit altogether. The only unit they have that more than doubles the damage is... The handcannoneer, and you already know why that isn't exactly the best given handcannoneers already suffer from overkill, and when you double their DPS without doubling attack speed, it's just more overkill, especially because their occupy less space on the map which means they are more likely to shoot same target than twice the amount of handcannoneers that are spread across a line twice as wide.
OOTD units also are the worst possible units in a base trade scenario because their units have the least amount of DPS against buildings per pop space.
They are only more advantageous in cases where you have a choke point and they cover the whole line while the enemy units are just trying to reach the fight waiting for the front line to die. Or in other words, on a map like black forest.
OOTD is just a bad civ.
Ootd have aoe dmg tho , that's how they are balanced
@@ilgiallo0nah cmon stop it...everybody says it is a bad...stop saying it balanced ffs
And yet when CZcamsrs make battle vids of maa vs gilded maa with both sides using equal resources it ends up being a neutral outcome with the win swinging to either side sometimes. So you might need to reconsider your thoughts maybe.
Except thee Handcannoneer suffer significantly less from over kill, specifically because the have Double Attack Rate, not Double Damage, make them shoot more often
@@chrisnewtownnsw a lot of comparison videos don't show fully upgraded vs fully upgraded units. Furthermore, against ranged units, they tend to do worse because there's less overkill due to their increased HP, and that losing one of them equals losing two.
In early castle age they do really well before numbers start building up. So what I do against the civ is just avoid fighting it until upgrades settle in, and that especially helps because the eco of ootd is horrible compared to other civs. The longer the game goes the more likely they'll lose because of resources.
The Need to make the Units of Order Stronger by 115% for it to be Advantage.
Knecht is only one syllable. Not kinect... More like Kneshed
All the OOTD player needed to do around 27:43 was to micro his ranged units to move up and kill the english handcannoneers. Instead, hes wasting a huge amount of dps from his archers and crossbowmen on the frontline MAA that should be taken care of by OOTD's Landsknechts. That was just depressing to watch how he basically had the game in the bag, but just didn't bother microing and respecting the power of handcannoneers.
is there any civ that can win against English????? I mean their hand cannoners with men at arms and cross bow + rams combination is nearly unstoppable
Anyone know how to counter gilded units? I just played France against the Order. Knights, Arbalétrier, HandCan, Mango vs mostly Gilded version of Landsknecht, Crossbow and Spear.
Archers and I’d suggest Horses and Knights, to attack back line. If possible have them on separate key binds, so knights can attack your opponents base with Horses attacking the crossbows. And of course archers attacking the Landsknecht/spears
@@ruffusisthebest7880 I focused the backline with knights and the melee with my other 3 units, but the knights kept dying to the crossbows. Are archers better against gilded melee than arbalétrier?
Not good enough for keybinds in multiplayer yet, started 2 weeks ago.
@@xShikari I believe Archers shoot faster then crossbows, so would deal out more Dps against those units as well as they’re light infantry. Also yeah, crossbows are good against knights but weak to Horses
Replace with Order of the Drongo
Ootd units just get over killed by ranged units. If someone's got 35 crossbows or archers ir doesn't matter how strong the unit is, it overkills it just like a.normal unit. But they have to count as 2 and 2x the resource. It's ridiculous. Units should only be 1.5x pop and maybe 1.33x more resources and it'd actually be an "ok" civ.
Hand cannons just murder everything. We need a nerf to hand cannons I think.
Hand cannoneers should get a extra damage taken from Horseman
@@guiltyspark3434 horsemen already get a bonus against all ranged units, they'll wipe out an equal army value group of handcannons just fine already. I think people just don't know how to play against handcannons since games rarely last long enough for them to come out in numbers, they only have 4 range, they're slow, they have mediocre HP and no armor, they have plenty of weaknesses already.
and late game one mango crushes HCS. thats why ppl dont do stretsly mass anymore. its cheesy and it doesnt work. lol@@xeroprotagonist
Mlöööp
OOTD was always a shit design. You can't have units that are literally twice as strong, but if you don't you end up with units that are pop inefficient.
Yeah this feels accurate. A fair tradeoff would be resource inefficient but more pop efficient strong units.
That way at least you have a win condition of fighting with equal military pop, whether that's at 200 or catching them before.
As this is I'm not sure what a realistic strategy is
@@antoinewood2478and houses should definitely provide more population, it’s stupidly easy to hit max population with OotD
Their units are pop inefficient but their villagers are extra pop efficient so you wind up needing to max out with fewer vills and it all evens out. Usually the Order loses because they go up to 120 vills with the Palace of Swabia and then they have a tiny army and die with a huge amount of resources banked. Also their units vary heavily in pop efficiency, like gilded archers are terrible but gilded handcannons are all right, gilded knights are also not too bad. In this game they were doing the 'use every unit type challenge' which is never a good idea, feels like they were testing the civ out and didn't know what to focus on.
@@xeroprotagonist Did I ask for your opinion? You seem to be following me around. Am I living rent free in your head little man?
No, their villagers are not really more pop efficient than anyone elses. They start with higher base resource gathering speed (+25%) but this is negated by other civs receiving unique techs and civ bonuses (As an example, Abbasid traders for instance generate +62% resources total with Grand Bazaar and Spice Roads, Golden Age lvl 3 gives them +20% resource gathering speed, and on top of that they get Improved Processing and Agriculture). And lets be honest, the idea that a Conq III player would get pop locked and not notice is idiotic. For that matter he had 65 vills, not 120. He also had 123 military pop to the English 60. So your comment is not just stupid, it is also objectively wrong. Just like your comments regarding the Byzantines.
@@johanlassen6448 I didn't even look at the username honestly, but don't worry, I won't bother commenting on anything you post anymore, you're clearly beyond helping.
Anyway I said 'usually' that was why the Order lost, which doesn't imply that I think that's what happened in this game - exactly the opposite, actually. More poor reading comprehension from you. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're ESL or something instead of just being childishly disingenuous.
yo
I think that the "brand new" etiquete starts to need to be dropped
instead of every unit being gilded, they should be able to build a limited amount of “noblemen” that buff military units and villagers. They’d be kind of like prelates, but they’d also be beastly fighters and they’d be a bit different too in other ways to make up for it.
This just sounds like the Japanese bannermen
good point. But I'm thinking the noble could buff workers to work too, or buildings maybe. Like you have a limited amount and you choose what they're working on@@jeremypowell3016
the golden rule is always be making vills
oh you said that nvm lol
To be honest, as a viewer, I don't like any of the varient civs, find them confusing and they ruin the themeing for me
Not pushed age 4 for eternity, instead farming 4k gold for no reason. no second tc. picked a useless landmark..this is not ootd problem. the guy just sucked in this match
ootd didn't use the op hand cannoneers
How could he? He couldn't get to imperial, because the OOTD economy is garbage.
Even with bigger vills he can't? Man that sucks
As the Order, he just simply should have put a Tower at an enemy eco line as soon as he knew he had map control by overwhelming army. Go build regniz and put the enemy relic in the tower. Build more towers to keep enemy small and disturb eco, get 5 relics, win. How can these guys be pros and not think of a decent strategy? what was Soldiers gameplan? any long time goal? no? short term? nope. nothing. only great micro. honestly played like a gold leuage except the micro. how can you go Burgrave in a situation like this? with 1 barracks? Building spearmen? not pushing with an offensive Landmark? No 2nd TC nor planing for swabia? come on. thats laughable. he cant be serious?
Who said ootd had to be good? Statistically half of the civs are going to be worse
hmmm, Order of the dragon has their own stronger Hand cannoneers. Did not see a single one this game.
Are you dumb? He never aged up to Imperial
lol.
Because he couldn't get to imperial, because the OOTD economy is garbage.
Nobody said OotD had to be good. Who cares if English is better that Dragon. Play other civs.