What happened to Surcouf - the largest cruiser submarine of WW2
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2022
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In ww1, the Germans decimate the British supply lines with their submarine fleet.
Other countries quickly understood the importance of such vessels and how the naval doctrine was forever changed by this new threat under the seas.
After investing serious funds into the creation of their own submarine fleet, the French decided to push forward with a daring concept of hybrid vessel which could provide the serious firepower of a cruiser and the ability for surprise attacks which at the time only the submarines could provide.
There were two types of goals behind the French decision to make the Surcouf submarine cruiser. First were geopolitical goals. One needs to remember that France still had a large empire that spanned four continents leading up to World War 2, and the French were determined to protect those interests.
The only way to do it effectively was through a strong and flexible navy.
Second were the military goals. Its principal purpose was to search and destroy enemy fleets in collaboration with its own fleet.
A sort of a weapon that would spearhead the assault or surprise the enemy fleet while the supporting ships can wreak havoc from the distance.
Another purpose was to engage in the active pursuit of enemy convoys on the open seas. Something like what Germans did with their U boats in WW1 and famous Wolf pack tactics in WW2.
So it was in 1927. That the decision was made and green light was given for the development of a new submarine class.
Building the Surcouf took 7 years before it was finally put into service in May 1934.
It was undoubtedly the largest submarine in its day courtesy of being 110 metres in length and having a surface weight of 3,304 tons. Being so large meant that the submarine could accommodate a crew of 8 officers and 110 men on board. Its interior also contained a cargo compartment that could hold 40 prisoners or lodge 40 passengers.
For comparison, the most famous German submarine of WW2, the Type VII was 67m long and had less than half of the crew of Surcouf.
Size would allow this beast to carry enough supplies for up 10000 nautical miles - or 90 days underwater!.
Its propulsion was provided by two diesel engines and two electric engines. It could attain a top speed of 18.5 knots, which is 34 kph on the surface and
10 knots, equivalent to 19kph when underwater.
But the thing that truly set this submarine as a class of it’s own were the weapons.
The Surcouf would house a twin-gun pressure-tight turret in front of the conning tower, equipped with 203 mm guns. These were akin in calibre to the guns of a heavy cruiser. Each gun had a 60-round magazine capacity and could fire five to six rounds per minute. The ammo was actually stored in a lift well underneath the turret, and brought up during engagements.
The vessel was equipped with a hangar and Marcel Besson MB.411 floatplane. This was important because the guns were hampered by having their range finders positioned so close to the water surface, given that a submarine sits lower in the water compared to a combat ship, so the floatplane could be used as a forward observer and provide the important information for the gunners.
Further fire power was provided by anti air cannons and machine guns for protection against anti submarine aircraft. two 37 mm anti-aircraft cannons and four 13.2 mm anti-aircraft machine guns mounted on the top of the hangar.
The Surcouf was also equipped with 10 torpedo tubes, six of which were 550 mm and four of which were 400 mm tubes.
Four tubes were front facing, 3 were situated in the aft section of the submarine and 3 of them were also in the aft section but they could be used to fire torpedos to either port or starboard side.
However, all of this didn’t come without a bunch of issues.
The Surcouf was also a sluggish vessel, taking two minutes to dive to a depth of just 12 metres. This made the French sub very vulnerable to enemy aircraft, exacerbated by the fact that she had no form of radar on board.
The guns couldn’t be used when the sub’s roll was more than 8 degrees and it was almost efficient for any combat during harsh seas or night because the fall of shot couldn’t be observed.
But enough with the stats, le’s move on now to the story of its life and deployment.
Sadly, no mention of just WHY the Surcouf and other cruiser subs were built and why at the time they were. In the short, because of treaties. In the 1920's, a series of naval treaties, aimed at preventing runaway arms races that could lead to another world war, imposed limitations on the numbers, size and armaments of surface warships, but, initially at least, not those of submarines. As a result, France, Britain and other nations, experimented with large submarines, capable of surface action as a way of building up their fleets without violating the treaties. These loopholes would be quickly closed however, leaving the Surcouf and only a few other vessels of its type.
Was coming to say just that. Thanks
Thogh the concep was allready done by that time and while new technology might give it a better outcome the nesesarity to keep a presure hull intact domed any iteration of nonstandard subs (and that includes sucarriers and flacksubs) anyhow. Its a better than nothing try even to circumvent the treatys for a role they could not fit either way.
yes we, french are the best, sadly the surcouf sunk without leaving trace.
@@d0log540 Every nation is the best nation according to all nationalists. ;)
@@MarcABrown-tt1fp Indeed, even Yenghi!! Watch the whole clip, you might be surprised. czcams.com/video/bIpKfw17-yY/video.html&ab_channel=SickeSolberg Oh, and by the way, my nation is a country that is one that I will never say is the best in the world, it is corrupt, extreme monarchy. My military service was for a real nation, where I learned a great language, and was in the best army in the world, one that consistantly beat your SEALS and Marines, and I had 3 tours of combat in 2 countries that your over-praised forces have never fought in. I think your own last president, you know the crazy, low IQ one, said that a nationalist was a developed patriot?
I-400: At last a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!
Yeah i tought I-400 is bigger than this Submarine
@@rojulb7142 it is but it dosent have a twin barrels turret
British M-class: allow us to introduce ourselves
Matias Torres: ONE MILLION LIVES
British M-class submarine battleship: **sips tea in 380mm**
Two scenarios fit. One was a freighter that reported a collision with what was possibly a submarine, the other the American aircraft that sank what it thought was an enemy submarine. It's perhaps possible both incidents were the same sub. Damaged in one encounter it may have been destroyed in the second because it was forced to run on the surface due to damage from the first incident. One day she'll be found and we'll know for sure.
Yanks did it,as usual,friendly fire
@@michellepeoplelikeyoumurde8373 That's one of the possibilities. It was a very unusual looking boat, possible they misidentified it as a Uboat, uh, basically if it didn't look American, they'd assume it was enemy, Uboats were attacking a lot of shipping in and around the US at the time.
It's not all that strange to wait 2 months before declaring Surcouf lost. It would be unusual for a modern ship to be even a day overdue without communication, but this was a warship with notable stealth capabilities in the open ocean in time of war. In the absence of a distress signal or something to indicate they had been attacked or had an accident, they could easily be sneaking around for several weeks trying to make their way to a friendly port.
Also in a time with much less advanced communication equipment
Your names a Reference from the Mercedes Lackey books isn't it?
The USAF sunk them. The bomber squadron reported a sighting of an unidentified subamarine where the Surcouf would have been, and attacked it without any further identifying flights.
Even knowing for certain that it was lost, this ship was a potentially dangerous enough asset to hide its disappearance for as long as possible. The Germans and Japanese were undoubtly aware of its existence, possibly the Italians as well. But, the only thing these countries probably knew regarding its status, was that it didn't reach Panama.
But where could it then be? Taking the long route near the Antarctic? A secret mission off the coast of Norway? Patrolling the Atlantic Ocean? Maybe even slip into the Mediterranean Sea? The Axis had no idea, but had to adapt to the possibility of it showing up in an undesirable location at an unfortunate moment, possibly even changing and lengthening some of their supply routes or navigating them through routes they considered lesser risks to evade a risk that was never there. Given the range of the Surcouf, two weeks was about the longest the Alies could stretch the time before the Axis would've figured it out. But during those two weeks, you can bet the Axis leaders weren't happy about not knowing.
@@judithflow3131 You didn't mention the French islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon, 25 kloms off the coast of Canada. The Free French used the Surcouf to transport troops to the islands and take them back from the control of Vichy France. The USA "forbade" the French to carry out the exercise to free their OWN LANDS!!! I expect that the USA was going to go in, take the islands over, aand the "forget" to leave, (they have done this hundreds of times. Link that French success to the bombing of the Surcouf by an American bombing squadron and it can only mean that the sinking was deliberate. History from Wikipedia:- "During World War II, despite opposition from Canada, Britain, and the United States, Charles de Gaulle's forces seized the archipelago from Vichy France, to which the local government had pledged its allegiance. In a referendum on 26 December 1941, the population endorsed the takeover by Free France by a vote of 63 for Free France (98.2% of ballots cast) with three ballots voided.
The colony became a French Overseas Territory in 1946.
After the 1958 French constitutional referendum, the territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon was asked to choose one of three options: becoming fully integrated with France, becoming a self-governing state within the French Community, or preserving the status of an overseas territory; it decided to remain a territory."
I don't know if you remember the air attack by the USA against Gadaffi? France refused permission for the F111's to overfly France from Britain. The Yenghi went via Spain and attacked the tents that Gadaffi usually lived in. In the course of the attack just one missile went astray!! Where did it hit? Complete coincidence?? The French embassy was the one building hit!! Clearly showing that the USA is the most childish nation on the planet.
The betrayal theory is highly unlikely, especially after the St Pierre and Miquelon liberation, and the fact that there's been no other instance of free French forces defecting. The two most likely possibilities are friendly fire due to being mistaken for a German U boat and an accident.
I think it got hit by a liberty ship accidentally, remember reading that somewhere
HIGHLY unlikely to say the least! Those 130 French patriots (REAL "patriots" not the GOP lying hypocrites we have in the USA today) that gave their lives on that ship fighting AGAIST Fascism to free their nation!
Than wby is there no wreckage? America is a large country with many subclades. These people have a long documentes history of doing what ever they want despite treatys and such. Just ask the Indians. I know how the Navy is and who is behind it. This type of thing is right up there ally. #1 They probably thought the vesselnwas an abomination and sank it. #2 These people hate the French.
@@ryanmurphy4139 lol got it all figured out. Your "logic" is pathetic.
@@SSN515 the fact that i can't tell if you're ironic or not is worrying
My father was in the US Navy in WWII in the Panama Canal Zone. At one point he was sent to sea on a US Destroyer. My father told the story that late one night that either the Destroyer hit something or was hit by something. The rumors at the time that they had been hit by a torpedo that did not explode or they hit a whale........ End of story but it made an impression on my father....
An American ASW patrol aircraft reported attacking a surfaced submarine in the area. It might be it attacked and sank the Surcouf. One submarine looks much like another, particularly if the weather, and therefore the visibility, is less than good. "What's that?" "Looks like a submarine. Let's sink it!"
Also US patrol assets wouldn't recognize such an odd submarine as a friendly, and in war you can't always take chances.
@@Rammstein0963. Especially when you are so scared that your pants are constantly wet.
Ah the americans
Sank one with red cross and another friendly
The one with Red cross's, was reported to transport personal and arms ( such as ammo and other war fighting equipment.
it was not able to carry much weight, but combined with other types of aircraft, it did contribute in resupply on the eastern front and give positive moral opinion which trickled down to the (both).
The citizens, AND, to all branches of the German military (also used for propaganda purposes internationally.
@@wildancrazy159 , yes a USN submarine sank a Japanese hospital ship. In heavy fog, the torpedoes were aimed by radar and launched. The submarine never actually saw the target visually. The ship, named the Awa Maru, iirc, was hit and sank. The submarine later found bundles of raw rubber floating in the area, presumably from the Awa Maru. If so, the hospital ship was carrying military cargo, ie raw materials used in making militarty items, which a hospital ship is not permitted to do. Iirc, the submarine captain was court-martialed.
The HMS M1 would be a more fitting ship for the "Battleship Submarine" title as it was armed with a single 12" (305mm) gun, the same kind as on the Mikasa
I think the guns for the M-class were taken from spare barrels of the Formidable-class predreadnoughts.
@@pyronuke4768 I can't check rn but you're probably right, it's from some of the pre dreads of the RN
@@pyronuke4768 they were spares anyway.
I’ve mentioned the M2 which had a seaplane hanger. Friends of mine dived on it back in the 70s when air diving to that depth was still permitted, mainly as many of the divers were ex- RN clearance divers and knew how to deal with the issues produced by deep air diving!
haha...I literally just wrote ...I thought i saw it all with kearsarge and the Japanese carrier subs and cruisers... I wrote what's left....bb sub?? 1 406mm or something? lol
I had a Naval Jr. ROTC instructor in HS many years ago. He was a Senior Chief Petty Officer and Chief-of-the-Boat. The senior enlisted man aboard the boat. Yes, subs are called boats, not ships. Well enough history. He told us that "missing" US subs are considered still on patrol. I guess it is part of naval tradition and superstation. I am sure that is not an "official" naval ruling. Just something among brother submariners.
You are making a metaphorical confusion, the idea is that they are on eternal patrol protecting us, not that they are actually out to sea, their names are taken off the registry and put on a new one of those on eternal patrol keeping us safe, but it isn't specific to submarines any ship like coast guards can have that said about them too, but because all subs do is patrol, it's more recognizable with them
@@Magikarp-yk7ioif I remember correctly they also wish the eternal patrol crews a merry Christmas every year
Drachinifel has a great video that goes into more detail about the sinking, without any of the Bermuda Triangle or conspiracy stuff.
The sponsor being men's "submarine" dysfunction... well. More surprising plot twist than anything else in the video. HAHAHAH
shut
I would love to see a Video on the Imperial Japanese Navy I-400 Class of Submarines, also i would love to know if other countries had plans for even larger more advanced Hybrid Submarines during or after WWII but were never built, as i find the unbuilt Planned/Prototype Warships, Submarines, Warships, Tanks and Aircraft that were proposed during WWII Fascinating!
yes...I agree...I like to imagine there's a alternate universe where rocket science didn't progress, or was undiscovered, and artillery science was what advanced....of course larger and larger caliber guns would be the logical way itvwould go...but I'm sure ammunition inventions, and things we haven't even thought of today...be cool to see what they would have came up with in this alternate reality in 50 years...lol
Considering that modern submarines carry anti-ship missiles, anti-aircraft missiles and cruise missiles in addition to torpedoes, you could argue that they are the direct descendants of the cruiser sub.
I strongly advise watching the I-400 guide by Drachinifel even if its just for the opening few minutes.
.czcams.com/video/6rhauQxM6F8/video.html
So as for the pronunciation :
Surcouf -> more like "Sürcoof", yet getting the "ü" right seems close to a lost cause for natural english-speaking people, a bit like the "th" for French
De Gaulle -> more like "Duh Goal"
Cousteau -> more like "Coostow" (with the "oo" from "mood")
Cherbourg -> that one's quite OK, the "r" being the other lost cause either way so it doesn't really count :)
French sucks anyway
I think the narrator, as most othernarrators, doesn't give a shit about the pronunciation. "It's not my language so fuck it!"
@@chongtak In fairness they butchered many English words, I'm only at 2:37 and already he's pronounced wreak as 'wreck' and another word that I'm too lazy to go back and look for. Admittedly it could just be a narrator reading a foreign script verbatim, I've noticed they have a tendency to repeat the mistakes in the script rather than fix them.
Let's talk about "ocean grapher"
Amazing! Never heard of this submarine! Despite its "clumsy-ness" it seemed like a good idea. Why? During WWII submarines, on both sides, often used their deck guns against enemy shipping rather than expend their limited number of torpedoes.
Can't have been as bad as the British WW1 K Class steam submarines they were 103 metres long and were a disaster. The M Class was a Diesel Electric replacement them, and that M1 with the big gun also sank
And WWI for deck guns. The idea of something that could fight a surface ship larger than a Destroyer or maybe a Light Cruiser at superior range just did not pan out and none that could even think of it were built.
As a commerce raider this would be a good ship pre carrier days out of range of land based air. Or areas not expected to have much air wise. In other words a great design for WWI but like the slower Battle ships of limited use in WWII.
Used creatively it could have done well in the Pacific thanks to sad Japanese anti sub abilities and limited air effect. Japans only anti sup weapon a depth charge had max 250 meter max depth. Parked out on the Japan's merchant routes it's ability to greatly outrange Destroyers would have allowed it to pick on convoys then dive to depth the Japanese would have trouble with.
French Gov in exile messed up this sub needed a surface ship escort to keep it from being mistaken for a German Sub and better route coordination with surface ships in area or risk lights at night to keep from collision. At least a surface escort or two could have a much better chance of spotting another ship at range and maybe at least get in the way to prevent collision as the Sub could not survive one most likely while a surface ship might.
@@RedRocket4000 this submarine would have been absolutely useless outside early WW1. convoys defended by even a single destroyer would render its cannons useless, even if they dont have depth charges or sonar.
"Never heard of this submarine!" That's likely to be because you are an Anglophone, as the French would say, someone who NEVER learns French, NEVER reads French, and knows NOTHING about the Francophone part of the world. Most Anglos are like that.
@@Demun1649 WHY would I want to learn French?
That railing can’t have been good for underwater speed.
I’m guessing that, like most subs of the era, it was designed as a surface ship that could submerge rather than a full time submarine.
The hand rail would also have made it impossible to open the hangar door in the way the model and drawings depict, unless the rails were retractable.
More a submersible than a submarine
Many subs at that era had handrails but they were removed during combat deployment.
Of course it was designed to stay primarily on surface, just like most non-nuclear subs, it needs to come to the surface to get air for its engines.
The largest submarine disappeared
CIA: Gonna cry?
I never thought of the loss of Surcouf as a mystery. With heavy guns mounted in a rotating turret that was level with the superstructure, torpedo launchers and an airplane hangar, all placed well above the centerline, the Surcouf must have been hideously top-heavy, so the most likely cause for her loss was she sprung a leak no one detected then rolled over and sank with all hands before anyone on board realized something was wrong. duh.
Explain the breech then !
@@sttmw If by breech you mean leak it would be impossible to guess because the number of places in the Surcouf where a small leak could have started are too many to point at any one culprit. It could have been caused by a single fault, a number of faults or a cascading series of faults compounded by errors made by the crew who may or may not have been aware something was going horribly wrong. Whatever the cause, Surcouf did not send out a radio distress call so whatever happened, happened quickly and if she was running on the surface, which is likely, the boat rolling over before sinking would have prevented an S.O.S. from being sent.
@@MarchHare59 The high likelihood was the Surcouf's turret, which was... Well, ridiculous. I mean, looking at how it turns, it is clear the seals could give way or leak if it wasn't properly checked now and again.
When I looked at the Japanese version, the Santoku, it actually has an Airlock to seal the Hanger from the Water, meaning it wasn't likely to get breached... The Surcouf had no such real Airlock system, and it relied heavily on the turret being properly aligned.
It easily could have been a case of the turret turning at the wrong time, or the constant wear from having to make such turns resulting in the gap becoming wide enough to allow water to just surge right in.
Add in the fact that you mention how "Top Heavy" it was, and it heavily could have rolled over and caused the turret to turn, which caused the Surcouf to rapidly flood.
HMS Audacious (1912) sank ion the 27th October 1914, the RN did not announce the sinking until the 14 November 1918, shortly after the war ended. Subs also could go missing for weeks during ww2 due to technical issues before returning to port. Not anoucing that a sub is missing during a war is not unusual, for a time they can hope that it is having problems and may get back to port, even when they know it is lost not informing your people and therefor also the enemy learning of the loss is important too.
An extraordinary cover-up appearing at Jutland when it was never there
So many other WWII wrecks have been found with updated technologies, so, Surcouf may yet be found.
When all the seabed has a high resolution survey it will be revealed
I really love your videos. Your presentation skills, detailed explanation, deep knowledge and attention to detail are really very impressive. Please keep making such beautiful and informational videos. They are enriching, entertaing and knowledgeable at the same time. CZcams needs more people like you 👍
Stuff not Mentioned:
*A Close Shave:*
Surcouf very nearly fell into German hands before Operation Catapult. When the Germans came storming into France, Surcouf was in the middle of being overhauled. With only one functional engine, a jammed rudder, and no ability to dive, a decision was made by Frigate Captain Georges Louis Blaison to limp across the English Channel to seek refuge in Plymouth.
*A Fitter's Worst Nightmare:*
Because she was half broken when she arrived at Plymouth, Surcouf needed to be fixed. The trouble was that most of her parts were naturally French (being a French submarine and all), and with Germany now occupying France, parts proved difficult to come by, with repairs being slow and expensive.
*Tension:*
After the scuffle mentioned in the video, the only person of the original crew not repatriated (Frigate Captain Georges Louis Blaison) was promoted to Captain. Both the French and British made accusations she was working undercover for Nazi-held France, with Britain going a step further and claiming she was attacking other British ships. It got so bad that British officers had to be assigned to work on Surcouf just to make sure she wasn't up to anything bad. Besides British-French tensions being so high, the Royal Navy wasn't thrilled to have the ship commissioned at all, as the crew of 110-130 needed to operate her could have been used on two or three submarines of different design.
*Trouble in Bermuda:*
Surcouf's stop in Bermuda was a bit more than a stop-and-go for supplies, as the crew needed the submarine repaired. Apparently Surcouf was leaking seawater into her battery compartment. While this problem was rather common in this day, it should be noted that when seawater mixed with the batteries, a chemical reaction would occur that produces chlorine gas.
*Sabotage?:*
One interesting theory that has been developed over the years is a fascinating one. Several uncorroborated but surprisingly persistent reports were made by Royal Navy Divers; these men claim that, under the command of British espionage leaders, they secretly attached mines to the hull of Surcouf while she was anchored in Bermuda, with the intent to sink her. The mines were set on a timer, ensuring that she would be far away from Bermuda before detonation.
I would cite my source but the author/book escapes me. It was claimed that the Surcouf was being towed at the time of the sinking and the accident occurred when the tow cable parted.
He kind of skimmed over the German collusion issues and denied them out of hand. Although they likely aren't true, Surcouf was regarded as a bit of a white elephant with a drunk, unreliable, and possibly mutinous/treasonous crew....to the point where the British required liasons aboard to allow the sub to operate with the Aliies. A bit disappointing the video failed to cover this side of the story.
@@kuwanger12 For some reason, the crew of the Surcouf did not really get along with the British at _all._ Which is a bit strange, as from what I've gathered most of the other French troops that had escaped to Britain at the very least were begrudging allies.
As you said, there were rumors that not all of the French crew was legitimately on the same side. Of course, as to how true those claims actually are is another story...
@@Dat-Mudkip the French Navy in particular had some bad relation with the British navy which attacked their ship in the port of Mers El Kebir in Algeria in July 40 killing more than 1300 sailors and damaging or destroying several ships. Also in 1940 the British took over all the French ship in British naval bases and sometimes using the force. As explained in the video, one sailor from the Surcouf was killed during this operation. Hence surely the bad relationship that was not the same for land army or airforce.
Xénophobic rumors from unsecure Britishs sailors
A minor collision with that turret and the bottom of a merchant ship would be catastrophic for the submarine and possibly minor damage for the merchant ship.
Same as what sank the M1
I think the K class were individually a lot more interesting, but the story of this submarine was fascinating. Thanks for the video.
Yay! The submarine battleship video that was long ago promised off the back of the submarine aircraft carrier has been delivered. Nice one Nick thanks.
The i-400 also had two sister ships, the i401 and i402 but the i-402 was completed as a submarine tanker
Being an history nazi and a member the Royal Canadian Navy, I can't help but point out a small inaccuracy. Having been the Royal Navy's North American base since 1749, CFB Halifax and the Halifax Dockyards were given by the Royal Navy to the young Canadian government in 1905, as part of a complicated political process where the UK at the time were looking to get out of their Dominions in order to save cash, while the Dominions were looking for more autonomy (this alone is a very interesting story, but too long for this comment). Canada created the Royal Canadian Navy in 1910, but couldn't sustained the military base, which was almost abandoned but for the necessary installations to maintain the one ship they had there (HMCS Niobe), and even so, the ship was barely operated. When WW1 started in 1914, the British levied the troops of their Dominions for the great cause. The Royal Navy kinda took over the almost abandoned base in Halifax and injected a lot of money to make it useful for the war. It's not like Canada had a word in the matter anyway. Canada was still a Dominion, and therefore wasn't autonomous in his foreign policy and in military matters outside its territory. During WW1, Canadian forces were integrated with the British forces and fought under British Command, so the question of the ownership of Halifax Dockyard during WW1 was irrelevant, since all military matters in Canada regarding the war effort at the time were controlled by the British. Canada was nothing more than a junior partner, when they were even considered (read on how the Battle of Vimy was so important to Canada in that regard. Another good story). With all that in mind, even if the base was no longer British since 1905, you could be excused to think otherwise during the 1910's and 1920's, and could even argue that the base was Canadian on paper only. But after WW1 and the treaty of Westminster in 1931, which gave Canada the power to deal with his own foreign policy without the involvement of the British, there's was no doubt that Halifax was fully owned and fully financed by the Canadian government and was not a British base, although they still hold deep ties with the former empire. Anyway. Hope you found that little story interesting!
Wow, that smooth segue into an advert! Genius
What about the British M series of submarines made in the inter war years? Friends of mine dived on the M2 the one with the seaplane hanger on the foredeck. It’s in a bay in Dorset, it’s beyond the limits of normal air diving today and can only be visited by “technical” divers. Attempts at entry are strictly prohibited as she was lost with all hands and thus is designated as a war grave
I know that wreck, I serve my apprenticeship on the Brixham trawler Sue Ellen, all the local skippers had that as a big red mark on their charts (decca navigation back then before GPS). Around a 2 1/2 hour steam from Berryhead & shoot the gear just south of her, then tow back towards home all day. For many years I believed it was German because it was referred to in the local inshore fleet as "Going Up The U-Boat".
I dived the M2 back in the late 70's visibility was very poor that day, lots of sand in the water made it a disappointing dive.
Max depth 35mtrs well within sport diving limits
I think it fits to call it a cruiser...
(Most cruisers during the same period had 6-8 inch guns)
After all, most ships can be submarines...
(If the definition is being able to submerge and resurface)
I can only think of 2 cruisers which were actually built with 6 8 inch guns, most had either. 8, 9 or 10
@@ed_darktrooper1883 WW2 ones, treaty cruisers
@@ed_darktrooper1883 more like 4 cruisers split between 2 classes
Furutaka class composed of Furutaka and Kako
Aoba class composed of aoba and Kinusaga
@@michaelho4014 the ones i thought of were York and Exeter, but yes, those too
Moskva is a submarine
The most innovative aspect of the Sorcouf was just mentioned in passing. Not it’s size,, float plane, rotating torpedo tubes or battle cruiser firepower, but it could accommodate 40 passengers. Imagine enjoying Fine French Cuisine on a 90 day wartime luxury cruise to witness World War II. Only the French would equip a massive instrument of war with a hotel. I can only imagine a Presidential Suite for General De Gaulle and a Honeymoon Suite for Edward VIII and Wallis. No doubt these accommodations had 5 Star standards. “Captain, please invite the General to dine with my wife and I topside under the stars while we enjoy ‘31 Chateau Latour, and don’t worry about the Germans as I am a personal friend of Hitler.”
Actually, the "extra space" was not extra at all and was for housing prisoners (and extra cargo) for the long cruiser/raider voyages envisioned. When the ship was designed the "rules of war" did NOT allow for the sinking of merchant ships without first giving a warning and then taking prisoners on-board.
@@GrumblingGrognard REALLY!!!???
Hold my ‘31 Latour.
It was a cargo hold that when fitted with bunks could sleep prisoners or passengers. It wasn't a hotel, what are you smoking?
@@pigpuke IT WAS A JOKE!!!!! Sorry you didn’t get it.
@@JackBWatkins You should be. - _That_ was a joke. :P
I’m related to the guy the ship or sub was named after. Robert Surcouf was a French privateer in the early 19th century. My mom’s maiden name is Surcouf, I didn’t know until I saw this video there was a ship named after him.
No way! I'm from saint-Malo! He's the historical city hero. Are you french or did your family moved?
@@matydrum I’ve lived in the US all my life.
@@junkaccount8302 that's crazy! You need to visit saint-malo! Have you ever looked it up? It's a beautiful fortified city that used to become an island when the tide was up (now there is construction on the land side of it prevents it). Your ancestor is a legend here! If you want my contact I'd be happy to show you around and buy you a drink, it would be some great vacation for you. Not far away is the mont saint Michel which is one of the wonders of the world too!
Often times the simplest explanation is the correct one. An accident or a friendly fire mistake ( which could explain the delay of the announcement of its sinking ) seem the most likely to me.
Something tells me it’s somewhere at the bottom, near the entrance of the Panama Canal, most likely within 50 miles from it. More likely than not, it’s probably a friendly-Fire incident, but without any sufficient evidence to support this, it’s nothing but interesting events in that area and my own hypothesis.
Awesome video and animation. It would be neat to see a video on the I-400 Submarine. I'd love to see an animation and video of the battleship Yamato as well
"My fellow submariners, did you not leave your fears at the bottom of the abyss!"
“I WILL FLOOD THR BACK OF THIS BOAT TO GIVE THE GUN THE ELEVATION IT NEEDS!!!”
SALVATION
Yes, i would like to watch a vid of yours regarding the mentioned Japanese mega-sub .
Yes, please, for the video about the I400, that was one hell of a submarine
It does seem that the collision is the most likely cause of the sinking, the damage to the freighter may have appeared slight, but submarines are very fragile in certain places, as evidenced by the loss of HMS Affray in the 1950's. Drachinfells video is better than this one.
Of course we want a video over that! Keep them coming
I used to run an 8' 4" r/c model of Surcouf so did a lot of background research. The reason she was in Plymouth was rather than using off the shelf valve sets etc she had unique parts so these were being machined to suit.
When travelling a known route, most subs were given a 5 mile corridor so friendly fire woudn't be an issue. Surcouf was given a ten mile channel as her seakeeping/crew etc weren't the best. She even dived not once but twice with the conning tower hatch still open !!!! I think with all the info I read and researched etc was that she was sunk by an American bomber unaware of her wide channel. The American crew returned from patrol and claimed to have sunk a U-boat but as we know, none were in the area. It was therefore hushed up to get the incident lost in the fog of war.
I always wished Dr Robert Ballard/Woods Hole Oceanographic would search her out, but being an American cock-up that wouldn't ever happen ( that the public would ever know anyway).
A good short review of this unique 'cruiser submarine'. Thanks
French built a hybrid of cruiser and submarine, while Japanese built a hybrid of aircraft carrier and submarine, what an amazing engineering
Surcouf could carry Aircrafts too
Glad that you are venturing into Submarines .
Submarines Life always intrigue how us how they live inside for days
2:53 might be the greatest transition in sponsor history on this channel.
Great story that I did not know. Thanks for sharing.
I love your videos! You may get this question a lot but would you ever consider taking a look at ace combat planes? Would love to know more about the ADF-11F and ADF-01
French subs with guns and airplanes exists
The Captian: *SALVATION*
I bet the captain’s quarters had crisp white sheets
Ah, fellow Ace Combat enthusiasts.
DON'T YOU SEE?!
Like the Roman ad. The test tube cracks me up.
Excellent stuff bro
French here 😁 pretty good prononciation 👍. French is not a easy language to learn, even less to speak 😅.
And yes ''au'' is prononce ''o'' don't ask me why 😆.
When in doubt, go the Giorgio Tsoukalos route:
"ALIENS"
Quelle ironie que ce sujet passionnant ne soit pas le fait d'une chaîne Française !
Merci infiniment pour ce reportage, dont l'intérêt dépasse nos frontières. ❤
A literal mini battle ship aircraft carrier that can dive, This got to be coolest ideas for submarine
One of my WW 2 British submariner friends was placed on board the Surcouf after the takeover. He showed me some officers cutlery and a colour copy of a certificate that was issued to the crew members. I was given a photocopy of the certificate and it's in a cartoon drawing on both sides. When he left a crew member stole the officers cutlery and stuffed them into his tunic. He said that the officers were not very popular with the crew, as they had better food and accommodation.
it’s questionable , did those souvenirs were looted and explained thé gunfight who made déverbal victims ?
Rotating torpedo bay, wow that in itself is an incredible feat of engineering.
I mean, it was a common thing even back then. Although perhaps not on a submarine.
@@Devantejah no, it was not common at this time (30'), especially on submarine. It was real innovation .
@@turlupouet Sure was, take another look at all the destroyers and cruisers from that time and before. I also clearly wrote "perhaps not on a submarine." Remember?
The British M Class (launched from 7/1917) was a 'submarine monitor' rather than a cruiser submarine, but uniquely had a single 12" gun ahead of the conning tower, intended for shelling a coastline or to hit and sink any ship from less than 1000 yards, as torpedoes were sometimes found to be unreliable as well as expensive. Four boats were planned, only three commissioned, and only one - M.1 - had the gun; M.2 had a seaplane in a hangar, M.3 became a minelayer, and M.4 was scrapped incomplete after the Washington Naval Conference (1921 - 22) put restrictions on the armament & tonnage of each nations' ships & submarines. They all had problems: M.2 sank when seawater flooded the boat through the seaplane access, M.3 was scrapped after trials had proved the concept successful, and M.1 sank with all hands off the English south coast in 1925 when she was in collision with a Swedish merchant ship. The wreck was discovered in 1999 by diver Innes McCartney at 220', with the gun forced out of its mounting as the result of the contact. The story featured in 2000 in a BBC documentary, which showed the boat heavily encrusted with barnacles and covered in fishing nets, sitting on the bottom of the English Channel (as also is M.2, but at only 60' now a popular dive site).
The M Class was 1950 tons submerged, but Surcouf - launched in 1934 - was over twice as large at 4,300 tons. The Royal Navy also had HMS X1, a true cruiser type and intended as a commerce raider in time of war. When launched in 1925 it was the biggest in the world at 3,500 tons submerged, had with four five-inch guns, a high surface speed and a range of over 12,000 nautical miles. However it suffered from organisational difficulties & repeated mechanical problems, and was scrapped in 1936.
I know this sub was in a video game called Sub Wars in the Eshop of the Nintendo 3DS as DLC for 1.99. It was only game I'm aware it was seen in.
As for the Japanese sub carrier, it was going to help get tiger tanks from Europe to the pacific. With that submarine completed and with the D-Day landings in June 1944, they never got their tiger tanks and the sub want use for that. That was mentioned in Mark Felton's telling the story.
I think the Surcouf suffered a castrophic seal failure around the gun turet and/or mid ship torpedo tubes. I see vast areas around these and ample opportunity for leaks.
The sub is like the I-400 and Yamato combined.
To make a battle sub.
wow, what a segue into an ED commercial, well done!!
the Alicorn before the Alicorn.
The Surcouf was not the average submarine, and it is possible an american vessel did not recognize it for what it was and assumed it to be hostile.
First rule of usine à gun .
Be sure what you shoot is a target
The only one and largest plane in the world An-225 Mriya was destroyed in the conflict. RIP An-225 (1985-2022) you will be missed :(
Press F to pay respects
Another great video
Your animations are very impressive.
You should do a video about the British Bergships! It would be really cool, and I think that it would be cool to learn about it!!!! Thank you for giving us so much great content!!! By the way, your pronunciations sound great to me, even though I do not speak french!
Pykrete forever!
Wonder if a drone carrier sub would be useful?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the oceans in secret.
Hard to see any benefit compared to cruise-missile-armed vessels.
The benefit of a submarine launching something is that it can be launched from anywhere, and the launch location can't be traced. They are built for out-of-nowhere-attacks.
Drones, being slower than missiles, aren't really good for that unless they are stealthy (in which case the launch position doesn't really matter).
Drones, from what I understand, are a weapon of areal control, not a first-strike weapon.
As such, deploying them from submarines doesn't really fit into any sensible battle scenario.
Being born in St.Pierre and Miquelon ( in 1960 ) I heard a lot about the Surcouf, that massive French sub lost in 1942 in the Caribbean Sea close to the entrance to the Panama canal. ( The Surcouf was named after a French Corsaire from the City of St.Malo, a corsaire being some kind of very official "pirate" working for the King of France and regularly attacking the British Fleets nearly anywhere but particularly for Surcouf in the Bay of Bengal more than 220 years ago ) ... There are many controversies regarding its disappearance and I have heard a number of things about this sub but I unfortunately am not able to say which of those theories are closest to the truth. The only thing to which nearly everyone agrees is that it was sunk - most likely accidentally - after a crash with a US ship near the coast of Panama. Anyhow thanks for mentioning this one of a kind boat and sub and also Saint Pierre et Miquelon, French overseas territory since 1534, near the east coast of Canada, a place that was crucially important for the Free French Forces during WWII. 👍🏻👍🏻
incredible segue into the ad, absolutely hilarious
Has anyone tried recently to locate the lost vessel especially with all the latest upgrades in technology? No mayday heard? No debris? Could one be the torpedoes malfunctioned?
I am somewhat surprised at your almost accurate usage of the term "decimate" (and I commend you ). Most times the term seems to be misused as meaning near annihilation when in the true sense it means to kill or destroy one out of ten.
by far the best sponsor yet
What a fucking excellent sponsor transition. Great laugh.
I tip my hat to you sir.
Learning about an exciting piece of WW2 naval warfare AND treating erectile dysfunction? Come on, what more can you ask for?! :)
I believe this ship was rammed by a US freighter, who was unaware of what they hit
You did pretty well with the french words and at least you say Canada and not Canader like my father from Stoke used to say. We never broke him of that.
Yes! Please do a video on the I-400!
Fun fact: there are more planes underwater than submarines in the sky... 🤪😁😇
I love dumb sub designs like this, I don't know why
I love topics on these videos
Huh interesting idea it's certainly something I never would of thought of great video
Sauce for the anime intro?
what anime intro
@@nix2135 This has to be a new meme. That or dudes are so cross eyed for anime they see a guy's CGI and claim it for Anime. Freakin weirdos and anime... Edit was the live stream countdown screen. Which if I am not mistaken using copyrighted stuff is a no no for things like this and have a hard time believing it was actually anime.
When the viewers where waiting a clip from anime is used for countdown as the video went live. I am asking because of the high quality of anime similar art style to patlabor movie series.
Here's an interesting theory: the Sercouf disappeared in 1942 in the Caribbean Sea. About that time Earnest Hemingway had convinced the Cuban government to allow him to use his fishing boat to chase German submarines and outfit it with guns grenades and bazookas! Now Hemingway was a drunk... Great writer.. But a drunken playboy. Accounts of his WW2 service attest to the fact that he basically just stayed drunk and threw hand grenades into the ocean to watch them blow up. What if Hemingway on one of his drunken late night escapades of the Coast of Cuba accidentally sank the Sercouf?!?!?!!! It's quite possible and nobody at the time would have wanted to point that out... That one of the greatest writers of recent history killed all those men in a drunken stupor. It's also well know that Hemingway's wife was friends with Eleanor Roosevelt... Wife of the U.S. commander in chief FDR. It's not too much of a stretch to believe that if FDR learned that his wife's good friend's husband accidentally blew up the Sub that he might just write it off as a "friendly fire" incident to not cause problems in his wife's personal life. Thoughts?
Don't think a grenade of that nature would damage a sub enough to sink it, unlike depth charges, other factors like depth, and what was Surcouf's crush depth, and test depth, likely less that the average for a WW2 U boat of approx 200 metres, A grenade would have explodes within 5 - 7 seconds of pulling the pin, so is it possible to cause catastrophic damage with a hand grenade to a submarine if sub near surface who knows?
@@robredz yeah... Plus the Cuban government also gave Hemingway bazookas... So if he was simply drunk and saw a sub near the surface and THOUGHT it was German the end result would be the same: a sunken sub caused by a drunken Nobel Prize Laureate.... Would make for an incredible movie
Did you see the "Pilar"? (I did). It's a relatively small fishing yacht capable of navigating short distances at around 8 kn and certainly not to (almost) reach the coast of Panama. Moreover, Hemingway's "hunting ground" were mainly waters between the northern coast of Cuba and Bahamas. So your theory is bound to remain a nice piece of fiction.
As to Surcouf, one possibility hasn't been mentioned: accident or major malfunction which occasionally happen to the subs, the latest being Kursk...
Great video
thanks for posting.
Grant job!
From start to finish, this vessel sounds like one giant boondoggle. Technologically, it sounds inferior in every aspect when compared to conventional vessels in that class; from being a capital ship to being a submarine. How this project got approved beyond draft plans is completely inexplicable.
Considering this was the age of Industrialization (we think of as the Steam Punk Era ) there was the belief that Engineering and Industry could overcome any obstacle. People were flying for the first time, steamers were crossing oceans in record time and electric automobiles outnumbered internal combustion. No idea was not worth trying.
At the same time, or a bit earlier, the French built the aircraft carrier Bearn. It served from 1927 until 1967, and unlike the first Yenghi carrier was the model, along with British Eagle, of all future carriers with an island bridge on the starboard side, multiple lifts, whereas the Langley had just the one!! France led the world in innovation, just look at the battle ships Jean Bart, Richelieu, Dunkerque and Strasbourg. They had monoplane fighters before the US, ditto monoplane level and dive bombers, ditto monoplane torpedo bombers. If I might suggest, Soixante-neuf, your knowledge of the dreams and ideals of the French at this time is NOT based on serious structured study.
@@Demun1649 I agree with much of your analysis of American technology of the time. America has often lagged behind the world because of bureaucratic inertia, corporate laziness, and elitism among its leaders. No idea is considered good if it does not originate from overseas or from someone with a college degree. Only the crucible of conflict frees the innate creativity of the populace to be considered and implemented.
@@morganjohnson539 Um maybe. Just look at the US aircraft carriers. Multiple lifts, copied from France and Britain. Radar, copied from Britain. Angled flight deck, copied from Britain. Jet engines, copied from Britain's Frank Wittle original and built in the US after breaking the licence agreement. Bureaucratic inertia is everywhere, just look at how stupid Britain was not to provide the two new carriers with nuclear power like France and the US, so Britain has to have a much larger fleet train than the other two powers. Corporate laziness is purely down to scared people who fail to see the potential in anything new. A great example of this was Bentley, the car makers. They invented a new engine design that would give more power for less fuel, it would have been a threat to all major manufacturers in the world. What happened? Rolls Royce bought out Bentley and scrapped the new engine. Elitism amongst leaders? That is the case everywhere, less so in France and Eire, more so in the US and Britain, Britain being the most evil and corrupt "democracy" in the world. So it is down to the US to destroy the amount of money that is spent on campaigning and elections, bar people with campaigns based on nothing but lies. The world is in great danger at the moment.
@@Demun1649 I might have said this differently but could not have said it better.
A bit more research would disclose that the officers on board the Surcouf were a pretty right-wing bunch, which led to the deaths when it was boarded by the British in Plymouth. It was then regarded as a white elephant by M.I.5 and the O.S.S. Not a trustworthy asset, indeed. The decision to send it to Tahiti resulted from the same reasoning. Its tendency to pop rivets and leak when the 8-inch guns were fired kept the crew on their toes, and by report, they were also grumpy. I found all this out by perusing books (remember them?) in the library of The University Of Northridge, CA. The most popular explanation, that it was rammed by the Thompson Lykes, whether accidentally or purposely, is probably the real one.
Only a deep-dive will supply more clues…
Looking at that gorgeous raven haired doctor in the "Roman" advert gave me a stiffy. I don't need the tablets.
Yes also a vid on the INJ I 400 class would be a top idea .tnx
If you gotta run a ED Ad i hope it paid good but.... i must say you missed like 100 good dad jokes...., is your torpedo old and running outta pressure b4 it hits the target? does your big gun suffer from barrel droop? they literally write themselves
There is no anime in this video. YAY! I don't know what you played during the wait for the stream but I really hope it wasn't copyrighted stuff. Got weebos with anime addiction problems watching docs on war machines. War history and Anime fans strike me as VERY different type of people.
Well, with anime using historical weapons and war machines, I think you should expect them to come.
The preroll was created by youtube
Her Top Secret orders were to meet up with the fleet support vessel Kamchatka once her destroyer escort the USS William D Porter was on station. The rest is still classified to this day.
"ARTHUR- WE HAVE TO GO TO TAHITI"
the tile said found and explained well that was a lie wasnt it wont be watching that channel again
Hahaha mate
@@FoundAndExplained yo wassup man. Love your content. Can you make a video on some of the Russian ships like VVA-14?
@@FoundAndExplainedcan you also do a video on the Russian KA-56 helicopter?
Understand your limiting your channel size by the sponsors and self promotions you do. Would actually want to share this with people if instead the self promotion was all at the end. It makes it less enjoyable to be learning and then to be interrupted. How do you not get that? You watch youtube too right? I enjoy the videos but that shit is annoying. So think about changing your ways.
We have all the videos ad free on Patreon. Otherwise, Please understand that producing 3D animated videos 1 to 2 times a week is costly and time intensive and sponsors make that possible.
@@FoundAndExplained I can understand that but will the masses really care? I'll continue to watch your videos but I do think that you should consider and negotiate having sponsors at the end. It tends to be more engaging that way as well. Did not mean to be aggressive in first comment but I do want your channel to reach a mainstream audience.
The ad for ED meds cracked me up!
I fancy myself a military history buff and have never heard of the Surcouf. Thanks for the video!
this is because it was sunk by fiendly fire in a mistake from the US airforce and this was hidden to save the face of the US against France...one british officer was on board , most for translations in communications with the US
You must educate yourself
Your video is really great, it's always a pleasure to learn more et crosscheck fact of history, but as a frenchman, couldn't help my self by being struck by the fact that on each and every shot of the surcouf, the french flag is put in the wrong way, the blue stripe is next to the pole, and the red is floating in the wind, otherwise, i enjoyed it, thank you for sharing this not so known history !
He’s trying so hard not to laugh during that sponsor ad 😂
Super post! very interesting.
The Narrator's French is almost perfect for an Anglo-Saxon.
Attention: A serious mistake: The French Tricolore is wrongly hung on the mast. Seen from the mast comes the blue, then the white, and then the red.
Yikes! Don't tell my (french) lady that I'm just about to meet the parents!
Nothing like an ad about erectile disfunction in the middle of the video to completely throw you off