I had this out on the lake last weekend for a while and it ran fantastic. Great thing to do - well worth it. I did the same treatment to my other older 15 hp and it made a huge difference with starting and idling as well.
I did this (before watching the video), and it worked great. I was a little scared to punch out the old welch plug (first carb rebuild, with the kit, I didn't do it, and it still ran poorly at idle). Then, 2nd carb rebuild/clean and popped the welch plug out, and further cleaned the holes, and now it starts 1st pull (or 2nd). Thanks!
Wow. I have this exact problem with my 6hp Johnson 1970s engine. It looks very similar to this evinrude. I’m going to try this! Thanks Paul for sharing this information.
Glad to help! I ran this motor a lot last summer and it ran really nice. Perfect idle, easy start every time. There could be other things that could contribute to idle and starting issues but this is a great and easy place to start + good maintenance.
Just working on mine today 1977 Johnston 6 hp that has been ever so faithful but same symptoms creeping in. Will give that a try and report back. Thanks
Ordered an expansion plug this morning from C dealer ($12 !) and leaving old one in place until it received. Had taken apart low idle rod/pin yesterday and soaked with carb cleaner and let sit overnight. Put back together, screwed in until just touched, turned back 1.5 turns. Boom started up 2nd pull, adjusted ife 1/2 tur inwards and idled right down . So thanks as never considered removing, resetting or removing the expansion plug. Not sure if worth still removing or cancel prepaid order or simply keep as same part. Any event am a happy camper.
Wish it were that simple to repair in most situations. It isn't. You did not even mention the main (high speed) jet in the bottom front of the carb. It often clogs and will cause a motor to run lean at higher speeds, smoking a piston and scoring a cylinder wall. Motor ruined. Still, I'm happy for you that what you did worked well for you and your motor. Thanks for the video.
Yea - your right it's probably best to take it all apart and clean everything - high speed, too. I was just intending on showing the cleaning of the low speed circuit and the removal of the welch plug in this vid and also how carb removal on this particular motor is not necessary to do only that if you are having starting and idle issues.
My 1976 Johnson seahorse 4 hp runs good for about 30 minutes, after that it loses compression. Fuel filter and carb are clean and I installed new sparkplugs.
Are you sure it is a loss of compression? If so, the only thing I can think of is a crank leak. It's possible that you have a bad crank seal in the lower end (output shaft) that is only failing after the engine gets good and hot. I have not seen this issue on outboards but I have on a chainsaw that I own so I know it's possible.
@@paulhaines5755 well I'm not 100% sure. It dies after a while and after that the starter cord feels way too light, as if theres not even a crankshaft attached to it.
Hey Paul. I know this is an old video. Ive got a question about my 1966 johnson ld-11r. I took the lower unit off to change the impeller, and there are two spring that came out but one of them fell out and I have NO idea where it belongs in there, if its supoosed to be on the driveshaft or not.
I'm not familiar with that year. I don't think the models I have worked on have springs in them. Not sure where that would have come from. Try to find an illustrated parts diagram online.
Nope, you’re supposed to set them with a flat punch. I’d be worried about having to remove it later to clean those jets. Who knows what red lock right and gasoline will do either.
Dumb question but does the welch plug and low speed pin control air, or gas? I have a 1992 9.9 evinrude. The carb doesnt have a welch plug, but the carb top cover sits over a gasket. Kind of the same look when i pull the cover off and gasket off, theres 3 orifices at the end of where the pin sits under it. I took the pin out and it smelled like gas. If its supposed to regulate air, i might have a leak. I can barely start my motor but once it does itll run and idle on full throttle only. Once i turn throttle down it dies, and then i cant restart it. I've cleaned carb and rebuilt it etc many times but now ive found this video, im gonna clean those orifices and take pin out and clean that too and replace the gasket. Wish me luck, thanks for your video!
The low speed screw controls gas. The tighter it is in the less gas, the further out = more gas. You should try adjusting this screw so that it is about 1 1/2 turns out from being lightly seated/closed. Don't crank on it too hard, just a light seat before beginning the 1 1/2 turns out operation. 1 1/2 is usually a good start for almost all engines that I've worked on. I'm sorry but I don't know much about your particular engine so can't give too much advice really.
This prob seems obvious but if you haven't changed the plug you should do that. I've had all sorts of issues with 2-strokes and fouled plugs. A new plug makes a world of difference sometimes. Could be a fuel delivery issue as well. If you have a spare tank and hose or you can borrow one try swapping that. A small leak in the hose/bulb really screws things up. I had one that would barely run and super hard to start. The bulb on the fuel line from the tank had a leak.
Nothing obvious. What I did see was the three orifices appeared a bit out of round when I looked at them with my eye loop. That tells me there was some dirt or more likely a gelled deposit in there that was affecting fuel delivery. I am always careful to use non-ethanol fuel and good two cycle oil but it is possible it was just some goop from oil that had hardened with the fuel in there. After spaying them with card cleaner they appeared perfectly round. You might be able to clean it simply by removing the low speed screw parts and spraying in there but the intent of this vid was to show people what's under the welch plug. I'm sure a lot of mechanic wanna-be's that are capable but novice (like me!) look at the welch plugs on a carb and wonder what's under it.
Dirt would only get in there past the idle mixture screw and packing washers so it’s very unlikely. I usually clean those orifices with a small right angled piece of wire from the throttle side while holding the butterfly open.
Hi I was just given a Johnson 6hp by my neighbor, it runs just has a very rough idle and shuts off we can see air going through fuel line and not getting enough fuel,we’ve replaced and rebuilt everything we know to do , fuel pump, gas lines/clamps, carburetor,and new float and everything.only thing we haven’t done is change tank which is going to be done tomorrow any advice?thanks
Yea - definitely could be a fuel tank issue. Try a new one. Make sure the supply line from the tank to the motor is new also as the seals on them can go bad and give you issues with air and such.
Drill a small hole in the center of the plug. Be very very careful not to drill too far into the carb body below! Sharp bit, use extreme caution and low RPM and light pressure. Use a sharp pointed something or other like a nail or awl to pry the plug out by sticking the and of it in the hole. They come out pretty easy.
I have one and I'm close to using it as an anchor. When it decides to run good, it's perfect. When it doesn't, well, best used as a rudder or anchor. Anyway. It starts (finally) and will idle, but as soon as you give it throttle it bogs down and dies. I can get it to at least limp with the choke pulled.
Hmmm - head scratcher for sure! Are you sure you're tank and fuel line are producing and maintaining pressure? Is your carb and main jet 100% clean? If you know the carb is pristine and the air settings are correct or close to it and your fuel supply and tank are working right, you might need to start looking at electrical. I honestly have not had to work on electrical with my motor but I believe it is points. If so, check the condition of them and set the gap as prescribed in a manual. On CDI engines if this is one, there is no good way to really diagnose a bad CDI but it could be the cause of an intermittant running issue in which case a new CDI is the only real solution. Check all the ground wires you can locate, inspect the wiring close and get the specs for the mag coil and see if it's the correct resistance. A leak down test targeting the crank might be in order because if you have a crank seal leak it might act like this. Lots of ideas for you but maybe some help for you.
@@paulhaines5755 thanks. I put a new fuel pump on it years ago when I bought it second hand. But for some reason I still feel like the pump isnt strong enough. The carb is as clean as they get. I didnt check the high speed jet though when I had it apart
To make it simple, I'd start with the basics. Clean the carb super good and do the procedure I show in this vid for low speed circuit. There very well could be something in there that is moving out of the way at times allowing it to run good then moving back to the orifices to give you troubles. I'd say the #1 symptom of the low speed circuit being obstructed is hard starting and trouble keeping it running so yes - good place for you to start and it's not a tough thing to do. Just buy a welch plug and have it ready to use. Rule out the easy stuff one thing at a time.
You might be able to just remove the low speed needle and housing from the front of the carb and spray carb cleaner in there. If you see immediate improvement or it starts easier then it's your low speed circuit in the carb. However, the method I show in this vid is the most thorough gives you a birds eye view of the tiny orifices inside the carb and the ability to really clean them well and inspect them. The gunk in these orifices from old gas or two cycle or ethanol might be hard to remove and you might need that birds eye view to really get it cleaned well.
I drilled a small hole in the center of the plug then stuck an awl or punch in the hole and pryed it up and out. Be very cautious when drilling! It is possible to have the drill travel to far into the port that is under the welch plug and contact/damage the orifices. I think there's a few vids on youtube about how to do it if you want more info.
Hmmm I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I'll offer a couple ways to start. I'd first make sure you have spark to both plugs. If so, check compression on each cylinder. They should be fairly close to one another in psi.
Bummer! Yes parts can be a show stopper some times. I'd recommend measuring the diameter of the plug you need (if you can get to it good enough to measure it) and see if you can find one that's the same diameter. Many times folks sell these things on e-bay and put a description including diameter. Maybe an "old school" dealer - seaway marine in Seattle used to have some good guys that had some old school knowledge. I don't know if that's the case anymore, though. If you can find a plug that is close you could prob "glue" it in, too with gasket maker or something gas resistant. Goop on top so you can "scrape" it off easily should you need to get in there again.
Pulse pumps won't work well unless primed. Make sure the pump is getting full of fuel from your tank bulb. Additionally, the type of fuel line you use from the crank case to the pump could be a factor. Make sure the line is pretty rigid. Soft line like tygon is not the best as it can "absorb" pressure from the crank. Make sure the inside of the pulse pump is assembled correctly with no leaks or anything. Your fuel tank should be vented, not sealed. I suppose there is a possibility that your carb needle is stuck closed thus causing a back pressure condition to the pump but I can't say i've seen that happen myself. I can't think of anything else to add. Hope you figure it out!
@@paulhaines5755 thanks for the answer, I suspected the pulse pump,,,put a new one,,,,new fuel inlet and outlet hoses, 2 seals...everything becomes hard,,,works for 3 sec....turns off...again manually I pump it up...hard...runs for 3 seconds...carburetor repaired. intake...etc...ultrasound of the bowl...if it works...I remove the supply hose to the carburetor...no fuel...no pulse...
tough one... Are you sure you are getting pressure/vacuum from the crank case BEFORE the pulse pump? Maybe there is something stuck in the nipple that hooks to your pulse pump line down on the crank part of the motor? Are you sure the pulse pump is assembled correctly?
Great video… very helpful but Isn’t it better to remove carb and remove all O-rings and gaskets before ever spraying carb cleaner into a carb. 1st of all your using cleaner that causes any plastic rubber pieces to swell up and disintegrate 2nd blasting any contaminants further into your carb or engine? I’m just a novice but that’s the one thing I know is how to clean a carb because blocked jets is common reason for a motor to not run ( the other thing I know is to clean outside of carb before opening it up)
Yes. It would be much better to tear it down and clean everything. The intention of this vid is to show a little short-cut for some specific symptoms that save you from tearing it all apart. Many carb cleaners contain harsh stuff like toulene and acetone. However, there are many options that are not rough on o-rings and gaskets and such. You'll have to research that a little to find what's available at your local store. I suppose you could send something into the carb by spraying into it but it's likely so small (if it's in these orifices) it'll just get pushed through anyway (in my opinion). Sometimes tearing stuff apart to fix one issue creates more issues than you had in the first place so maybe just a simple thing like this is best to try. The deposits in these orifices might even just be gooey two stroke oil so that won't hurt if sent into the carb. Thanks for the input!
I had this out on the lake last weekend for a while and it ran fantastic. Great thing to do - well worth it. I did the same treatment to my other older 15 hp and it made a huge difference with starting and idling as well.
I did this (before watching the video), and it worked great. I was a little scared to punch out the old welch plug (first carb rebuild, with the kit, I didn't do it, and it still ran poorly at idle). Then, 2nd carb rebuild/clean and popped the welch plug out, and further cleaned the holes, and now it starts 1st pull (or 2nd). Thanks!
Thanks, solved my outboard issue!
thanks did this to my carb today worked good still a little hard starting but now it dosent die when idling
Great video I'm having the same issue same motor and I'm sure this will work. Much appreciated 👍
Glad to help! Hope this works for you.
Wow. I have this exact problem with my 6hp Johnson 1970s engine. It looks very similar to this evinrude. I’m going to try this! Thanks Paul for sharing this information.
Glad to help! I ran this motor a lot last summer and it ran really nice. Perfect idle, easy start every time. There could be other things that could contribute to idle and starting issues but this is a great and easy place to start + good maintenance.
Just working on mine today 1977 Johnston 6 hp that has been ever so faithful but same symptoms creeping in. Will give that a try and report back. Thanks
Ordered an expansion plug this morning from C dealer ($12 !) and leaving old one in place until it received. Had taken apart low idle rod/pin yesterday and soaked with carb cleaner and let sit overnight. Put back together, screwed in until just touched, turned back 1.5 turns. Boom started up 2nd pull, adjusted ife 1/2 tur inwards and idled right down . So thanks as never considered removing, resetting or removing the expansion plug. Not sure if worth still removing or cancel prepaid order or simply keep as same part. Any event am a happy camper.
Oh, and new coiils, wires, points and condenser helped a ton also. It runs like a new motor now.
Nicely done! A thorough tune up....
very good
Wish it were that simple to repair in most situations. It isn't. You did not even mention the main (high speed) jet in the bottom front of the carb. It often clogs and will cause a motor to run lean at higher speeds, smoking a piston and scoring a cylinder wall. Motor ruined. Still, I'm happy for you that what you did worked well for you and your motor. Thanks for the video.
Yea - your right it's probably best to take it all apart and clean everything - high speed, too. I was just intending on showing the cleaning of the low speed circuit and the removal of the welch plug in this vid and also how carb removal on this particular motor is not necessary to do only that if you are having starting and idle issues.
@@paulhaines5755 I get it. Thanks.
My 1976 Johnson seahorse 4 hp runs good for about 30 minutes, after that it loses compression. Fuel filter and carb are clean and I installed new sparkplugs.
Are you sure it is a loss of compression? If so, the only thing I can think of is a crank leak. It's possible that you have a bad crank seal in the lower end (output shaft) that is only failing after the engine gets good and hot. I have not seen this issue on outboards but I have on a chainsaw that I own so I know it's possible.
Other sources of compression loss: reed valves, head gasket. Anyone else out there have ideas?
@@paulhaines5755 well I'm not 100% sure. It dies after a while and after that the starter cord feels way too light, as if theres not even a crankshaft attached to it.
@@paulhaines5755 I think it might be the piston rings.
Hey Paul. I know this is an old video. Ive got a question about my 1966 johnson ld-11r.
I took the lower unit off to change the impeller, and there are two spring that came out but one of them fell out and I have NO idea where it belongs in there, if its supoosed to be on the driveshaft or not.
I'm not familiar with that year. I don't think the models I have worked on have springs in them. Not sure where that would have come from. Try to find an illustrated parts diagram online.
Put some red threadlocker around the circumference of that welsh plug to make sure there's no air leakage
Good tip thanks!
Nope, you’re supposed to set them with a flat punch. I’d be worried about having to remove it later to clean those jets. Who knows what red lock right and gasoline will do either.
Dumb question but does the welch plug and low speed pin control air, or gas? I have a 1992 9.9 evinrude. The carb doesnt have a welch plug, but the carb top cover sits over a gasket. Kind of the same look when i pull the cover off and gasket off, theres 3 orifices at the end of where the pin sits under it. I took the pin out and it smelled like gas. If its supposed to regulate air, i might have a leak. I can barely start my motor but once it does itll run and idle on full throttle only. Once i turn throttle down it dies, and then i cant restart it. I've cleaned carb and rebuilt it etc many times but now ive found this video, im gonna clean those orifices and take pin out and clean that too and replace the gasket. Wish me luck, thanks for your video!
Update: i did what the video said, and now the engine wont start at all😂. Damn.
The low speed screw controls gas. The tighter it is in the less gas, the further out = more gas. You should try adjusting this screw so that it is about 1 1/2 turns out from being lightly seated/closed. Don't crank on it too hard, just a light seat before beginning the 1 1/2 turns out operation. 1 1/2 is usually a good start for almost all engines that I've worked on. I'm sorry but I don't know much about your particular engine so can't give too much advice really.
This prob seems obvious but if you haven't changed the plug you should do that. I've had all sorts of issues with 2-strokes and fouled plugs. A new plug makes a world of difference sometimes. Could be a fuel delivery issue as well. If you have a spare tank and hose or you can borrow one try swapping that. A small leak in the hose/bulb really screws things up. I had one that would barely run and super hard to start. The bulb on the fuel line from the tank had a leak.
So, did you see any dirt when you removed welch plug, or any dirt come out the front when you sprayed carb clean in ?
Nothing obvious. What I did see was the three orifices appeared a bit out of round when I looked at them with my eye loop. That tells me there was some dirt or more likely a gelled deposit in there that was affecting fuel delivery. I am always careful to use non-ethanol fuel and good two cycle oil but it is possible it was just some goop from oil that had hardened with the fuel in there. After spaying them with card cleaner they appeared perfectly round. You might be able to clean it simply by removing the low speed screw parts and spraying in there but the intent of this vid was to show people what's under the welch plug. I'm sure a lot of mechanic wanna-be's that are capable but novice (like me!) look at the welch plugs on a carb and wonder what's under it.
Dirt would only get in there past the idle mixture screw and packing washers so it’s very unlikely. I usually clean those orifices with a small right angled piece of wire from the throttle side while holding the butterfly open.
Hi I was just given a Johnson 6hp by my neighbor, it runs just has a very rough idle and shuts off we can see air going through fuel line and not getting enough fuel,we’ve replaced and rebuilt everything we know to do , fuel pump, gas lines/clamps, carburetor,and new float and everything.only thing we haven’t done is change tank which is going to be done tomorrow any advice?thanks
Yea - definitely could be a fuel tank issue. Try a new one. Make sure the supply line from the tank to the motor is new also as the seals on them can go bad and give you issues with air and such.
Could also be timing, they are very rough if not set properly.
How did you get the old plug out at first place.... if you can share that
Drill a small hole in the center of the plug. Be very very careful not to drill too far into the carb body below! Sharp bit, use extreme caution and low RPM and light pressure. Use a sharp pointed something or other like a nail or awl to pry the plug out by sticking the and of it in the hole. They come out pretty easy.
I have one and I'm close to using it as an anchor. When it decides to run good, it's perfect. When it doesn't, well, best used as a rudder or anchor. Anyway. It starts (finally) and will idle, but as soon as you give it throttle it bogs down and dies. I can get it to at least limp with the choke pulled.
Hmmm - head scratcher for sure! Are you sure you're tank and fuel line are producing and maintaining pressure? Is your carb and main jet 100% clean? If you know the carb is pristine and the air settings are correct or close to it and your fuel supply and tank are working right, you might need to start looking at electrical. I honestly have not had to work on electrical with my motor but I believe it is points. If so, check the condition of them and set the gap as prescribed in a manual. On CDI engines if this is one, there is no good way to really diagnose a bad CDI but it could be the cause of an intermittant running issue in which case a new CDI is the only real solution. Check all the ground wires you can locate, inspect the wiring close and get the specs for the mag coil and see if it's the correct resistance. A leak down test targeting the crank might be in order because if you have a crank seal leak it might act like this. Lots of ideas for you but maybe some help for you.
@@paulhaines5755 thanks. I put a new fuel pump on it years ago when I bought it second hand. But for some reason I still feel like the pump isnt strong enough. The carb is as clean as they get. I didnt check the high speed jet though when I had it apart
To make it simple, I'd start with the basics. Clean the carb super good and do the procedure I show in this vid for low speed circuit. There very well could be something in there that is moving out of the way at times allowing it to run good then moving back to the orifices to give you troubles. I'd say the #1 symptom of the low speed circuit being obstructed is hard starting and trouble keeping it running so yes - good place for you to start and it's not a tough thing to do. Just buy a welch plug and have it ready to use. Rule out the easy stuff one thing at a time.
@@paulhaines5755 thanks. I'll give it a shot.
You might be able to just remove the low speed needle and housing from the front of the carb and spray carb cleaner in there. If you see immediate improvement or it starts easier then it's your low speed circuit in the carb. However, the method I show in this vid is the most thorough gives you a birds eye view of the tiny orifices inside the carb and the ability to really clean them well and inspect them. The gunk in these orifices from old gas or two cycle or ethanol might be hard to remove and you might need that birds eye view to really get it cleaned well.
How did you get the Welch plug out?
I drilled a small hole in the center of the plug then stuck an awl or punch in the hole and pryed it up and out. Be very cautious when drilling! It is possible to have the drill travel to far into the port that is under the welch plug and contact/damage the orifices. I think there's a few vids on youtube about how to do it if you want more info.
I have a 65 would the 70 lower unit fix the 65?
I don't know. I'll get an illustrated parts and compare part numbers and see.
Is that shake normal for a 2 stroke or how do you cure that
Normal unless your motor mounts under the powerhead are rotted or shot. This engine you see is tight and normal.
I have a 72 fisherman that runs good on idle but sounds Like it’s only running in one cylinder
Hmmm I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I'll offer a couple ways to start. I'd first make sure you have spark to both plugs. If so, check compression on each cylinder. They should be fairly close to one another in psi.
Hmm no chance of getting the welsh plug in my parts. Have a 1980 work twin 6 hp evinrude. Would appreciate if someone could help out 😂.
Bummer! Yes parts can be a show stopper some times. I'd recommend measuring the diameter of the plug you need (if you can get to it good enough to measure it) and see if you can find one that's the same diameter. Many times folks sell these things on e-bay and put a description including diameter. Maybe an "old school" dealer - seaway marine in Seattle used to have some good guys that had some old school knowledge. I don't know if that's the case anymore, though. If you can find a plug that is close you could prob "glue" it in, too with gasket maker or something gas resistant. Goop on top so you can "scrape" it off easily should you need to get in there again.
ebay! buy any carb kit it will have like 10 plugs in it!
help,,,I put a new fuel pump..new seals..hose,,cleaned the carburetor...but there is no vacuum on the fuel pump...
Pulse pumps won't work well unless primed. Make sure the pump is getting full of fuel from your tank bulb. Additionally, the type of fuel line you use from the crank case to the pump could be a factor. Make sure the line is pretty rigid. Soft line like tygon is not the best as it can "absorb" pressure from the crank. Make sure the inside of the pulse pump is assembled correctly with no leaks or anything. Your fuel tank should be vented, not sealed. I suppose there is a possibility that your carb needle is stuck closed thus causing a back pressure condition to the pump but I can't say i've seen that happen myself. I can't think of anything else to add. Hope you figure it out!
@@paulhaines5755 thanks for the answer, I suspected the pulse pump,,,put a new one,,,,new fuel inlet and outlet hoses, 2 seals...everything becomes hard,,,works for 3 sec....turns off...again manually I pump it up...hard...runs for 3 seconds...carburetor repaired. intake...etc...ultrasound of the bowl...if it works...I remove the supply hose to the carburetor...no fuel...no pulse...
tough one... Are you sure you are getting pressure/vacuum from the crank case BEFORE the pulse pump? Maybe there is something stuck in the nipple that hooks to your pulse pump line down on the crank part of the motor? Are you sure the pulse pump is assembled correctly?
Great video… very helpful but Isn’t it better to remove carb and remove all O-rings and gaskets before ever spraying carb cleaner into a carb. 1st of all your using cleaner that causes any plastic rubber pieces to swell up and disintegrate
2nd blasting any contaminants further into your carb or engine? I’m just a novice but that’s the one thing I know is how to clean a carb because blocked jets is common reason for a motor to not run ( the other thing I know is to clean outside of carb before opening it up)
Yes. It would be much better to tear it down and clean everything. The intention of this vid is to show a little short-cut for some specific symptoms that save you from tearing it all apart. Many carb cleaners contain harsh stuff like toulene and acetone. However, there are many options that are not rough on o-rings and gaskets and such. You'll have to research that a little to find what's available at your local store. I suppose you could send something into the carb by spraying into it but it's likely so small (if it's in these orifices) it'll just get pushed through anyway (in my opinion). Sometimes tearing stuff apart to fix one issue creates more issues than you had in the first place so maybe just a simple thing like this is best to try. The deposits in these orifices might even just be gooey two stroke oil so that won't hurt if sent into the carb. Thanks for the input!