Destiny 2 Lore - Toland's role in the defeat of Oryx. His ambitions and why we failed him.
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- čas přidán 30. 10. 2022
- Download Outplayed for free at the link here: www.influencerlink.org/SHEfw Destiny 2's Lore and Story tells us about Toland the Shattered. In our path to deposing Oryx, The Taken King, he would assist us many times by giving us knowledge and insight on the Hive. However, by the end of it all, we failed him according to his perspective. Why is that? What was Toland's ambition?
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Not gonna lie chief, but *oUtPlAyEd* is a pretty toxic name for a software like that.
I'll stick to obs
Outplayed is crap. It literally doesn't do any of the auto capture or highlight stuff you read in your ads with destiny. I tried, downloaded it, and it outright tells you it doesn't work for destiny. This is a terrible sponsor for a Destiny video, and does nothing WINDOWS GAMEBAR couldn't do.
Bros he's just tryna get some cash off ad revenue leave em alone :)
Toland after we killed Oryx:
Toland: good, you killed the Taken king. Now you can take up the mantle and-eh?
*sees guardians leaving*
Toland: AYO, what the fuck!?
Toland is hands down one of the most interesting characters to me. Between the voice actor and the way he talks also just adds to his mystery
I agree, and I wish Byf would do a full I depth of this character.
Listen… listen!
Too bad we don’t hear more from him more often. Doesn’t feel like he should just be a side character considering his circumstances
@@throwawaycray1793 had navi from ocarina of time in my head when I read that
@@twelved4983 Well he isn't exactly but I get what you're saying. It's more that Bungie can only work on so many things at once... I suspect his absence will be explained away one day as him exploring the sword spaces or giving advice to Guardians on the Moon, that sort of thing.
to be fair if we had taken Oryx's place in the hierarchy we would be declaring ourselves less than the Witness, and by not entering the hierarchy we can't be compared to anyone within it
Toland : Ok you won, so let's put a power level on you.
Guardian : Can't lose the game if I never play.
Toland :
This is actually solid logic
oryx/toland watching me from the afterlife being absolutely annihilated in the crucible:
👁👄👁
Toland doesn't so much strike me as a traitor as someone who thinks there's only one way to play the game, and while he desperately wants our side to be the winning side, he sees us breaking the rules or refusing to play by them as an affront to his worldview, or as us deliberately throwing, or as us reveling in our ignorance.
We've shown him we can play and win by the game's rules, but then we do stuff like leaving Oryx's or Rhulk's spot in the Hierarchy vacant, and it leaves him frustrated.
This^ this hit the nail on the head
I mean if he wants to take that position he will get onto LfG gets 6 other people and take it. Sounds like a skill issue to me.
I mean he's kinda a floating ball of soul-light right now, can't really do much in the raiding party.
Plus dude's got a rather bad rep among the LFG servers since he didn't just cause a group to fall apart; he was so toxic he caused several of the members to permanently quit, and the one that still plays has made sure EVERYONE knows what an ass he was.
@@thedarkgenious7967 He talks a lot of shit for someone who doesn't have a corporeal form
@@RhapsodicXStyle07 considering he is truly immortal that’s a right
It's fascinating to consider that perhaps Toland doesn't in fact hold someone like Oryx, the Great Navigator, in highest reverence, but perhaps Xivu Arath. She, as the Hive Aspect of War, a being single-mindedly devout to the ways of killing and conquest, is the analogy he uses of the greatest nation, the one built of armies meant solely to conquer all who oppose. He even mentions he admired Wei Ning's forwardness, and who is more forward among the Hive Pantheon than Xivu Arath? Not her sister, the cunning trickster. Not her brother, the Taken King hungering for deeper knowledge and understanding of the Deep. No, it is Xivu Arath, unfettered by roundabout strategies like Savathûn, nor overeager analysis and introspection like Oryx. Xivu Arath kills because she must, kills because it is the way of the universe to kill, and through killing be the mightiest, sharpest blade. She is the truest, simplest, most honest embodiment of the sword logic. That is likely why she is the one who remains, now the highest seat of the Osmium Dynasty, at the right hand of the Witness.
Didn’t Mara Sov pop into Toland’s ascendant realm for a bit? He must’ve been like, “GET OUT OF MY ROOM I’M PLAYING MINECRAFT”
Underrated comment
She did, to rest. and he ran from her when she declared who she was how she was created
Tolandball is always nice to see flitting about. I'd love to see what he thinks of the Witness or Savathun being chosen by the Light since he's very much our resident expert on sword logic and esoteric darkness like Osiris was for the Vex and their networks, and Eris is for the Hive in general.
I especially love that last entry of his, like he's pulling us over and explaining everything yet confused on how we found and used light like we shouldn't have been able to. The game of existence's META (most effective tactics available) was the Sword Logic, and Toland came to understand and teach it in our favor; to not be crushed by it. Yet when the time came we fought back in a way that was and wasn't Sword Logic. The META was long since established, and we won with an idea that wasn't even on the greater table. He was so caught up in it that he cannot see other paths, or even see that we don't want the Sword Logic. We walk away in Victory, abandoning a throne to collect dust, and he can only call us fools, confused as we walk away from him.
TIL the word meta has an actual definition as an acronym
I think he's forgotten that the sword logic isn't necessarily the only underlying philosophy of the universe. It's the underlying philosophy of the darkness, sure, but guardians draw power from Light. They thrive by destroying the order sought by Darkness, not by accepting their place within it.
@@cn8229 he ain't called Shattered One for nothing. Too much obsession and pride on the Sword Logic as the be all end all of existence made him like those dudes that think katanas are the be all end all of swords, too broken in mind to accept anything else
My take on Toland is that he is the type that will hang back in the shadows and help point things out but not really lend a hand but once both sides have exhausted themselves then he will make his move. I can also see him being a piece of the puzzle for defeating the witness as well.
Oh, I’m sorry I failed you Toland. At least, I didn’t get turned in a lantern like you
Ouch
Oh, Toland. Yeah? You wanted me to do what in Oryx's throne world? What's that? Hey shut up for a minute and hover over this body lol, it died in a funny position, light it up
Tolands been seething for 7 years straight
One day we'll turn him into a weapon lol
He's talking all that smack cause he knows he cant fuck with us.
Just think, The guardian not only using the Dreadnaught how the helm was used AND on top of that, The Power to Take, being the very first power we gain by the darkness due to us defeating Oryx. His power and ship now ours, we use that as a throne to peer into the darkness and see all the enemies lurking and use that very same power to “take” and show the everyone from Ghaul to the witness what the “Final Shape” is and how neither have a role to play in it anymore.
that would of been cool, unfortunate for us though we didnt understand the heiarchy of dark yet, oryx looked to us as the magnum opus, yet above him, the worm gods, rhulk, witness, things we couldn't yet comprehend during the taken war. maybe if we did we could of used doxtology for good like stasis, but alas we left that power to be claimed by others in favor of the light
The “three queens” analogy gains new significance if one compare them to the Hive triumvirate of Oryx, Savathun, and Xivu Arath. Xivu is clearly the queen of armies, while Savathun and Oryx are somewhat interchangeable with both the queen of the tome, and the queen of the tower.
I think Savathun is the queen of the tower because of the trickery of the shattered throne and the truth to power lore.
Mara could also be considered the queen of the tower.
Great topic 🤙
Totally random thought though- Anyone else think it would be incredibly awesome to have a cutscene(s) where Osiris & Toland confronted/debated each other on perplexities of Light and Dark?
I bet it would be EPIC LOL
I swear, something like that would be so awesome, but also so completely incomprehensible to anyone who isn't in the know about the Deepest Lore
@@burnin8able Maybe hidden as a secret? I would LOVE this
Maybe like in an infinite forest quest (if it will return) a somewhat hidden sideway to a room in which Toland and Osiris "WOULD HAVE" such a conversation in a different timeline or so
Would be incredible :D
Ooooh it gives me gooselumps just thinking about it lol.
They are both insanely intellectual, both have been around for a very long time, both have researched darkness in one way or another AND both of them touched/tainted or scarred by the Hive
@@grizzlybehr1902 Yes! It would be an interesting conversation! Oh man I hope Bungie will implement overall more secrets which contain such things (and of course this secret!)
I'd love that, but I'd also settle for a lore book about it.
I love Toland's three nations analogy. Best lore bit.
It's really interesting to hear that comparison about atoms and broth, because the traveler looks like an atom and the witness had been referred to as the "deep" (implying water/liquid).
"There were those who believed that in Crota, the end had come. From the Moonbase, they cried out for help. Their message beamed far and across the system. It would land with those who would not respond. Deemed to be only 'affairs of the City.'"- Toland on the moon
I used to think he was just talking about the Awoken. But now with what we've seen of Lightfall? Maybe not...
I think it would be interesting if Toland possessed the body of Osiris.
who knows :D
I really do hope we see more of Toland within the main conflict and within the game. He can potentially be one of our greatest assets in our fight against the Witness.
It seems like Lightfall won't be a fitting setting for him, but I would expect him to come back in a big way for Final Shape. At least I hope he does.
What I really need is like “realistic lore”
Toland “you’ve slain the taken king, you can take his place! WHY ARE YOU LEAVING?!?”
Guardian: “bruh. I gotta do my pinnacles. Plus it’s double infamy week, so I guess I’m grinding gambit. See you next reset bud.”
isn't that what the 30th anniversary was, with all its absurdity lol
I didn't play D1 but from what few interactions I've had with Toland in D2 I can say he got on my nerves. He always sounds so condescending. I like to think that the guardians who slew Oryx but didn't take his place as Toland wanted them to did it partially (or purely) out of spite. Loot was the prize but giving Toland the middle finger was the cherry on top.
I think that's a misunderstanding of him, he sees the sword logic as the absolute truth and the only way to "win" at existence. Hes still on our side and desperately wants humanity to win but is devoted to the sword logic so utterly that he sees no way to win other than to play the game. The gaurdian both proves they can play the game masterfully in Oryx's defeat but also that (as far as Toland is concerned) we have absolutely no understanding of it and in fact also at times refuse to play properly (ie the corrupted light and not taking Oryx's place as taken king).
As far as I I can tell this enrages him as it shows him that the tower and its guardians still haven't learned and believes one day its going to cost us everything. Its why he becomes so condescending he sees us as the potential queen of armies unwilling to give up a ring of spears and in so doing will doom us all. He always been a pompous arse who sees everyone as fools for not understanding what to him is so simple, our survival requires the logic of swords. But in us he sees both the greatest proof of his truth and the total embodiment of what to him our collective ignorance. When you consider that he see the guardian as both our potential savoir (or I suppose by sword logic, victor) and the person who is deliberately throwing the game of existence his utter reverence and simultaneous contempt for the Guardian make a lot more sense.
I would love to see our defeat of Oryx and Toland’s angry monologue in an animated short or as an episode of a tv show. The depth of significance of the bombs mechanic and Toland being baffled by our decision to leave such a vacancy in universal power would be great to see adapted by a professional animation studio.
It would have been cool if we chose to Oryx’s spot in another timeline. Very curious to see how our story would go👀
One can almost say Toland helped us "Outplayed" oryx
the whole TTK storyline had such a high degree of ludonarrative coherence, it was great.
When I think about how Touch of Malice plays into the core concepts of the hive and sword logic it tickles my brain in a way that very few games ever have
Won't be suprised if Toland turns to be another of the witnesses disciple in a later dlc
Toland is like a frustrated DM in a game of DnD. And we're like the players who "mostly" play by the rules, but also perform miraculous ass-pulls that break the game.
Toland's Grimoire has one of my favourite lines in Destiny lore. the one about "the shape and the point of the tooth".
Makes me long for the Bad Juju mission we played with Toland
You know a game is beyond epic when it takes a long video to tell one characters story...Again, nobody does it better than Byf.
As we learn more about the darkness, the witness, the deeper truth etc. We have been steering away from the mysterious guardians. Tolland the shattered, Pradyth in the vault of glass, and wasn't there another? Hive vex and sometin else
I tell you what you know: your dramatic readings are impeccable.
In case any of you have ever been wondering karma the sword logic is in every single video game we have ever played every role playing game , specificallyThe experience point system. You kill monster after monster and you gain experience points which allow you to level up every game has its own expression of this system but in the And is the same thing you kill stuff you gain Strength that you spend on skills getting more and more powerful before the end of the game
Hey Byf! Your voice acting chops are really showing! Great series as always!
keep up the excellent content Byf!!!
I love the reference of the final shape in all those old entries
I could listen to you tell me about Hive lore for an eternity and still love every second of it.
Testament to Bungie's writing team and your compilations and delivery.
Personally i think Toland would play both sides, not necessarily against Witness or against us, but assisting both to see the greatest clash of our "blades".
At the same time though, i feel think Savathun could've tricked him by the time we see him again. It's really an interesting topic to discuss \o/
Mh, chef's kiss, fantastic video Byf!
Love the videos Byf!
Always love anything toland.
You did a good job, which I suppose makes toland: “Toland, the flattered one.”
Compare to most players, I started destiny when it was free and shadowkeep was the expansion. I been so invested into the lore. I love how mysteriously toland is. Definitely want more of him. It been too long.
Truly did Toland justice with this video :)
Would love to see Toland take Oryx’s throne world
well would be nice if toland could atleast drive the dreadnaught around
The little Halo 2 track during the ad sold me
What if the Drifter is the Taken King, and hiding it. He uses Gambit, as a trick of sorts to get us to practice sword logic, to maintain his powers. He does summon Taken after all and have us kill each other to see who is strongest!
I think he is well positioned to become the king. Not that is or has been. Interesting, with gambit going on 4 years+ , the drifter's army of taken must be in the millions by now. Hopefully he didn't take the mantel of shapes in this time line, as Eris did in exo stranger's original time line. Maybe one day we will see these things play out... bungie has been dragging us along for years already lol
The only issue with this is that Touch of Malice IS Oryx and as far as we know either The Witness or Xivu Arath took up the mantle of commanding the taken. Drifter's taken are taken but he controls them in a different way
@@ClairvoyantLastrus No, you don't have any evidence of that. Touch of Malice is an old raid exotic and not really part of the lore. Also, it's our reward for killing him and carrying on his life's mission with it. It has zero bearing on the current story.
@@StrangerX9 I mean did you not play D1? The blight part of the gun is literally called "Heart of Oryx" if that isn't Oryx idk what is
@@ClairvoyantLastrus I did, and got the exotic first month that raid came out. The raid is a thing outa time for the players, and not part of current lore.
incredible comedic timing on the ad break that i got at exactly 11:30.
This has always been an extremely interesting topic to me.
I believe toland will be our emissary of knowledge on the Sword logic. I do not think he will ever serve the witness, though perhaps one day he might himself replace him.
When the small floating light says: HEY LISTEN! And you’re just like, nope.
Love your vids!
Please do a toland series! Would love to hear it from you
I miss the Dreaming City mysteries and atmosphere. Yes, I could visit whenver I want, but I've done everything there. The best thing Bungie has ever done in D2 was the Forsaken expansiin and the Dreaming City.
Love how smart and flowery Toland sounds in text but his voice is so surfer-ish to me lmao. The perfect person to make a gun called Bad Juju I guess.
Love it. Thank you. I always liked when toland got mad at us. I hope in the future we really piss him off again.
We really didn’t see him in the Witch Queen campaign or adjacent to it, but Toland the Shattered, I predict, is not done speaking to us yet. I question that he may continue to be our “Virgil” when we decide to take on Shivu Arath (who by the way I think will continue to serve the Witness because War, and thus the Sword Logic, is apart of her very being now) and if there may be a way to summon Toland back into our material universe.
That is a theory, but it mostly stems from the fact that we still don’t know what laws his throne world follows, I’m going to assume it relates to the Sword Logic. But I think that also may not happen for a while. Maybe he’s waiting to reappear when we’ve destroyed more Disciples further up in the hierarchy of the Witness’ forces, so he can take a seat by the end and the final shape. Or even better, he’s just a spectator right now and waiting to see if we can defeat the worshippers of the Sword Logic and its Prophet. Fascinating Mystery.
Thanks for the hard work....sorry...been gone a while.
Toland went through an unfortunate situation, being one of the first people very early on who realized that we would need to utilize the Darkness’ power in order to defeat it. I do believe he will help us when asked, but for the most part will remain a neutral spectator of sorts.
So, Sword Logic is basically agressive cosmic darwinisim.
What about bomb logic?
@@pencilduster2938 Multiple parts working towards a larger effect
@@pencilduster2938 Cosmic Rube Goldberg Machine ending in a nuke blowing up. Crazy complicated, but effective.
Toland has drunk so deep of the Hive and their pursuit of the Sword Logic that he has become hypocritical to that "truth". In destroying Oryx, the Guardians proved his pyramid scheme was not the strongest form, so taking up Oryx's mantles would not be continuing the quest for the Final Shape, it would be stagnation in a weaker form.
Toland: "Why are you leaving?"
The Guardian: "Lol, lmao."
"Why are you leaving?" Sorry but the first thing that came into mind when I heard that, was the "Why are you running?" meme.
On the question, don't know if Toland would take the mantle of taken king, he would have to challenge the entirety of the hive in a way to do so then, including Xivu Arath, and so far we don't even know what she's capable of.
Whatever happened to Oryx's body? Is it still just floating in space or was it picked up by someone?
I think if Toland truly accepted the sword logic, he'd watch the fight, see who comes out on top. They're the only ones worth siding with.
I can definitely see Toland aspiring to be a Disciple of the Witness.
my bedtime story for tonight thank you mr my name is byf
7:55
I guess you could say it was Eriana's Vow
Similar to Calus' take on the future and the Exo Stranger's dark future. It makes me wonder what if the Guardian took up Oryx's mantle?
I see so many you tubers with really smooth gameplay. What’s y’all’s settings at? Is this on PC or Console?
I just imagine my raid team going eh and them walking away while hearing Toland get angry
the whole panicked reading of a confused as shit Toland trying to get us to replace Oryx was so funny to me and I can't figure out why
Byf!
Toland may have taken Oryx' place at the top of the pyramid, but it is exactly his devotion, obsession, worship of the sword logic that makes it so he would never have been able to defeat Oryx in the first place.
22:26 NOOOOO 🤣🤣
i imagine what was the reaction of toland when he discovered about the witness making the sword logic a lie
Fun fact: the "gentle [place/kingdom] ringed in spears" is also referenced by the Witness (or whatever communicated to us through the lunar pyramid relic) in "Unveiling: The Wager" as a description of the kingdom of the light
Toland, don't you get it, I don't follow the sword logic, I follow the turn my enemies into guns logic.
“Nothing has ever lived that will not die. Lo, lo, I never sleep. I dance between light and shadow. Lo, lo! I will never sleep. I will never die. You cannot kill what has already died. You will fear nothing, and nothing will not fear you. Osiris. Osiris! Can you hear me?” -Toland
Where did we see Toland on the Leviathan? For a certain quest where the ascendant plane bled into the Leviathan raid area? I can’t remember what quest that was.
I feel like we were going to have a moment where Toland double crossed us and monologues. Instead we just turn and walk away.
I'd say he'd side with the witness. Dude's dedicated himself to the Sword Logic and is kinda pissed we walked away from it. Also narratively we need more notable characters to side with the witness.
Could you imagine if there were vex guardians I mean that would be freaking weird but at the same time we don’t know if it could actually happen could you do lore video on that
I think he will serve the darkness out of spite, to teach us a lesson as towards what happens when you don’t pay attention to what he says.
ca 06:00
Abusing the meta is following the sword logic.
"Change my mind."
Byf, Kell of Lore (Adept)
Is there any explanation of why Toland is in the prophecy dungeon?
If toland ends up becoming the witness, I'm gonna be pissed
I hope toland takes power in the dreadnought and become a disciple of the witness.
who is the witness's strongest disciple and have we heard from Toland since we kill rhulk or savathun?
what if toland is a part of the witness... one of his many trippy heads lol
toland, with tears in his eyes: “i helped you defeat one of the most powerful hive gods in the galaxy, and you didn’t take his power😡????”
me, a simple titan: “i don’t even know who you are.”
We’re still operating within The Sword Logic. The Hive hierarchy clearly wasn’t the “end all/be all” of hierarchies. There are sharper blades in the universe. Who’s to say there is a hierarchy within the Sword Logic at all?
Seems like the story of the three queens actually reflects Oryx, savathun, and Xivu Arath...
What if Toland is...... the Witness? That last part Byf said was "..or stand and watch.." made me wonder is he the Witness?
So to get this straight. The way of the darkness is to take and the way of the light is to give?
I often wonder if we were to follow the sword logic too. With all that we killed would our ascendant realm be massive. We have killed so much of the hive and their gods, legions of cabal, endless waves of fallen and each other. We have even slain a wish dragon. In the way of the hive would not killing them be claiming there kills too. It reminds me of Riddick with the ideology we keep what we kill, but that brings me to another point. Why not use hive magics to resurrect Toland. Would his knowledge and power not prove useful in the last battles...
At 5:25 when toland says “(LOOK UP AT THE SKY)” is referring to the sky itself or the Traveler hanging in the sky of the last city? Or is it none of those things? I am just trying to understand.
*is he
I took one look at the throne of Oryx and thought "Not tempting enough." I turn to the massive throne at the top instead and thought "Very tempting."
Toland both has and doesn’t have an insane god complex
@mynameisbyf Does Eris have thoughts on Toland? As a powerful person in between guardians/humans and hive, what does she think of Toland? Does she reference him derogatorily or with reference?
The first time she used Hive magic was in D1. It was a spell that transported us out of Crota's Throne World during a mission to gather his essence. She admits Toland taught her. She's still a wild card on whether she's truly embraced the Sword Logic or not. Personally, I think she's testing us to see if we really are the most powerful being and waiting to strike when we're at our most vulnerable.