Read-back BLUNDER on approach to an international airport
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2024
- I'm usually pretty confident with my radiotelephony, but on a recent flight to a large international airport, I couldn't get my words out!
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Thanks for sharing John. I do chuckle when I see how things have moved on from the early 90s. One member of Wiltshire Aero Club built and flew a VP1 and would land at Bournemouth (no radio). It looked so bizarre seeing him lined up ready for take-off. On one occasion, ATC referred to him as the ‘man sitting on the plank’! Seems like an another world compared to the professionalism you show.
Love these longer flight videos that show it all!!
Excellent - trying to do more of this.
That was fun to watch Jon. It's not every day you get to chase a 737. I started training for my PPL in 2004 flying out of Southampton just when it started becoming a really busy regional airport. It was great fun mixing in with all the airline traffic (even though they had priority over us in our little Warrior!). The controllers were always brilliant masters of handling us in the circuit between Dash's and ERJ's etc. A bonus too was that my RT developed really quickly. Something that I miss quite a bit
Did you known John Nutter - he taught me to fly at Old Sarum in the late 80s early 90s? I believe after Optica took the lease back from Wiltshire Aero Club at Old Sarum and Doug Ranger moved it to Popham where he had a Maintenance set-up and Barry Dyke CFI went to Thruxton for Henry Pelham. They had the ‘Tomahawk’ fondly called the ‘Terrahawk’ because of its spin habit when pulling an induced stall, and a Slingsby T67B Firefly. After Barry’s premature death, an ex-RAF type became CFI, but for many of us we mourned the long summers at Old Sarum and all the shenanigans that used to go on! Happy days
Nice! You flew to my home airport. They always have great ATC and know what to do.
lovely video, i always enjoy these longer videos to wind down after a long day!
Lovely landing Jon 🎯! Great under wing angle..
so good, great flying films with high production quality.
Much appreciated Simon.
Nice landing there! You greased it! I love these videos!
Great video Jon. Loved hearing the RT and seeing how confident a pilot you have become.
Thank you Nigel.
Lovely landing
I’d suggest that you don’t worry about your speed “because it’s a big airport”. If you are not sure then ask them what speed they’d like and then comply. As for airports I’ve been to most European international airports. But give me the choice and pick a little airport anytime. My favourites are small Scandinavian airports. So that means airports like Aarlborg, Lynkoping, Kristinsand, Sandefjord, Vigra etc. That is because they have a flexible, sensible, pragmatic and very human approach to aviation.
Nice video Jon.
You are a highly-competent pilot whose skills I admire greatly, even as a mere armchair flight sim pilot.
Given the amount of information you have to deal with and the amount of comms via ATC, the occasional slip can, I’m sure be forgiven. To err is human!
The dawn to dusk challenge sounds great. Look forward to seeing your video on that and I will support you via your JustGiving page in due course.
Best wishes from a slowly recovering fan from Wirral. Had an unexpected quad bypass in late December! So watching and re-watching your videos to keep me sane!
Good luck with the rest of your recovery Darren.
Great video content, Jon, a well-handled approach and a beautiful landing! 🤷🏼♂What else do you need for a thoroughly entertaining video? 👌🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Gosh, there's a question I continually ask myself. Thanks Kevin.
@@TheFlyingReporter
😆
Been into Shannon (SNN/EINN), no fuss at all! Highly recommend it next time you're across the pond
Chicago O’Hare KORD is the largest airport I flew into in a light aircraft (cessna 172, piper arrow, or piper Saratoga). Many times into Houston’s main airports KHOU and KIAH too. Keeps one on one’s toes. KORD wasn’t that intimidating as the FBO was right off our landing runway. All flights were IFR so no buggering around getting Clearance into airspace. I will admit my flights into those airports were with a second pilot, with the exception of.KHOU which I’m pretty comfy flying single pilot.
Your airspace makes SoCal look easy!
Haha - it is a bit crazy TBH.
what a landing
To be fair descend not above 2000ft is a bit of a brain twister!
Yes. You are immediately in violation of your clearance with that one... It would make more sense with a waypoint - descend to not above 2000 by X.
I think that was what was going through my mind - hence why I ended my second readback with, descending - to indicate that It'll take me a while!
Would love to see you fly to bournemouth some day !
I am agree with you. Sometimes, i flight with a flightplan even if it isn’t strictly necessary. Easier to book for atc and for the controllers too!
It's so easy with a tablet EFB, and just seems more sensible that trying to get through on the phone.
Nice video!
Thank you James.
Nice job.I've heard far worse in my PPL days at MAN
19:29 can really see how HS2 is carving up the countryside.
Superb as always John. Obviously I’m biased!
Haha - thank you!
For the (below ?) average GA pilot, filing a flight plan to Birmingham may well not be a routine part of a day's flying. Unsure whether you're using Skydemon to do that, but it would be interested to be walked through that process. Lasham is well worth avoiding as it get's terribly congested with gliders in good weather (the day of your flight would have been a good winter's training day) however Odiham is generally quiet and the Chinooks generally fly under 1,000ft (in part to keep out of the way of the gliders) and so flying anticlockwise around Farnborough potentially overhead Odiham was (as you will have already considered) a possibility. That Guilford corner is a very congested sector of airspace - hard to see other aircraft, particularly with a low, winter sun. Interesting factoid about the use/their use of Ground on the transponder. P.S. Nice landing !!!
Here you go: czcams.com/video/XR8OWi3NA2M/video.html
@@TheFlyingReporter Many thanks
Number 2 to a 737, I laughed a lot. Maybe the number 2 to a 737 put you off!!!!!!!
I was no 2 to a 747 on my qualifying cross country into Norwich. Asked to hold over the cathedral. That put me off!!!
@@XX629-Bulldog LOL I bet……..Qualifying cross countries are nerve racking enough.
About the trick to not touch down on the numbers (26:00). As far as I remember, the default landing technique is to land reasonably early on the runway. That might mean a controller expects you touch down at the first part of the runway and to vacate via an 'early' taxiway. So bonus-trick, if in doubt, ask for a long landing.
On a long runway like you get at an international airport, there is an aiming point painted on the runway, usually 1,000 feet from the threshold (looks like it is about 1,300 feet at Birmingham, I'm not sure why). That is where the PAPIs, ILS, etc, will bring you down to. I don't think there is any reason to land before the aiming point. Jon landed slightly after the aiming point, which was absolutely fine (and probably wise with a 737 having just landed - landing longer than it did is a good way to avoid its wake).
@@thomasdalton1508 I misunderstood the "trick" then. I thought he meant if your parking spot is nearer the far end you can throw away the first 5000 feet (and you can, just ask for it, is my point).
Thank you for pointing out the context. The touch-down zone and wake turbulence are very relevant to the scenario.
@@Rodhern Indeed, if you want to land that long you should ask. I don't know if landing on the aiming point really counts as a trick, but I think that's all he meant!
Back in the early 90s, Lofty at Old Sarum Airfield used to land his VP1 (no radio) at Bournemouth Airport. One day, ATC referred to him as ‘the man sitting on the plank’ - true story. Another fellow club member landed his seaplane on Ringwood Lakes only to find out they were frozen. He skidded into the bank and had to be lifted off by crane. Another member would attempt to land his Gazelle helicopter onto a trolly so that it could be wheeled into the Optica hangar shortly after the pilot and Police Sgt had been killed in one. Great fun to watch until one fateful day, there was an alleged arson and his helicopter was destroyed. Apparently, it was not insured. At dusk, we would shine our car headlights along 24 when a PPL was late home! Just some of the happy memories of being a PPL holder before the hobby really took off! Oh and not forgetting working Boscombe Down during the week when you could find yourself flying in formation with a Phantom or Jaguar Sepecat from the Empire Test Pilots School! Thanks for sharing your modern day exploits. It’s seems so professional nowadays by comparison.
Great video. I plan to land there, just polishing my RT. This video is very helpful. I have a question, do you know if there are preferred times of week and times of day when it is better to plan visit to Birmingham? When I was checking it is often the case that arrival is every 5 minutes, are there specific times when it is less busy and Birmingham will more likely accommodate?
Do a video about Cirrus killer JMB half the price of Cirrus with the exact specification. I'd like to know your opinion on it as I'm starting my journey in flight learning. I've seen your video about the G7, and I think the JMB VL3 is the best aircraft. Great videos. I enjoy them all the time
I did my training and got my PPL at ELLX, our home base. So ATC, 13k ft runway and landing between dash8s, 73s and cargo 74s is SOP for us. And yeah a great deal of fun, certainly my favorite airport and place to do some t&gs. They'll let only one locally based aircraft do t&gs at a time and if there's a gap occasionally when there's no other traffic they'll let you use the whole runway so you can do multiple t&gs in one go! Got to do that a few times so far. Awesome! But on the other hand when it's really busy you're last on the priority list so orbiting for 10min or longer happens quite often unfortunately. Needless to say knowing how to avoid wake turbulence is ingrained in every pilot at our club and school as we have to know how to land between airliners otherwise you could orbit until your tanks are dry. None of that "recommend safety distance of 5NM" for us.. you turn base abeam the airliner, stay above his descent and land beyond his touch down spot just moments after he's taxied off the runway 😅 So very good on you for watching that helicopter's wake! Very important stuff.
Thanks. Yeh, in some ways, training at a major airport isn't much fun - extra cost, delays, hassle, restrictions, but at least you get to know how to operate in that environment.
You need to wipe that grease up you left on the runway mate 😮👏👏👏 beautiful landing🤙
When you have such a long, wide runway, seemed rude not to butter it on.
Another great Video John, you always inspire me to do more and get out there to bigger airports. Can I ask what holder you use for the ipad on the Yoke? Bought a few options to put around the aircraft and they do not work well, the one you have with the iPad mini seems ideal?
Hi - this is one of the answers on my FAQs on my website.
@@TheFlyingReporter Thanks John, hope to see you around the airfields on my travels, I fly out of Shoreham and the club has a base in Redhill which I plan to try out due to the challenging airspace. Excuse my informality if I do see you, as watching your videos over the years gives the impression that we know you : - )
Happy and safe Flying
Biggest I fly into is Lusaka International here in Zambia. Not very busy but have had to circle at right base due to traffic. A350' and 777's from likes of Qatar and Emirates. The comms that really threw me once was as I landed I heard "ground 52" Brain was racing as I knew Lusaka did not have a ground frequency. Mumbled back at them to confirm my exit point!. Turned out they were saying "on the ground fife two" ie the time I had landed! Not sure why they pass this on but certainly got me stumped for a few seconds...
Ah, I've been caught by one of those time checks before. It was in Croatia or Italy, and the controller's accent was very rich. Took me forever to understand what they were saying !!
I don’t think that was entirely your fault John, he obviously had a lot of IFR within the vicinity so tried to get you to descend to 2,000ft but realised last minute you were VFR so said “descend altitude…not above 2,000ft” I think you confused each other there for a second 😂
I like the bit at 4.40 where it sounds very much like someone on the radio replies "fuck off" 😂
He says ' of course!'!!
@TheFlyingReporter yes, I can hear both now... do you recall "green needle, brain storm"?
Interesting that despite filing a flightplan and being the destination airfield they didn't have your details on initial call when creating the strip. One of those bugbears of VFR flightplans sometimes methinks.
Yes, this did surprise me - and partly explains my brief initial call actually, as my FPL would have my flight rules etc etc. On previous flights there, the FPL has been sufficient - on departure for instance - I just called up for departure clearance and start and they knew where I was going etc.
Hello John, is the challenge only UK-based, or can I participate from the USA?
It’s an international competition. So you can enter from wherever you are!
@@TheFlyingReporter That's amazing! I was planning a trip from Houston to Los Angeles. At least now I have the perfect excuse, haha.
I dont think that was a blunder. Though you talk a bit fast. Chances are he would not have caught the information anyway on the initial call if you talk that fast. On initial call you can use full Callsign, include all information, talk a bit slower and give him time to catch what you are saying. But again what you did was not a mistake in my mind. Most of the time when you are not on flight plan you only state your Callsign on initial contact to give ATC time to react. Sounds like: "Birmingham good morning this is G-BMIV" then he replies and then you give him something like "GIV is an Arrow, 10 miles East with Tango, VFR, request landing instructions" or something like that...
In the states they say A O P A. Why do you pronounce it A-opah?
Just one of the many lovely little differences between the way British and American people speak.
@@TheFlyingReporterthanks. But shouldn’t the original Aircraft Owner & Pilots Association be leading in this case? It is an abbreviation consisting of letters, not a name as such. Anyway, love your channel, keep up the good work. Cheers
EGBO is cheaper!
This is true - but more than an hour away by car, and up to 3 hours away by public transport. Depends on your priority and mission I suppose - my meeting/filming was at Birmingham Airport and involved a late departure.
@@TheFlyingReporter Ah yes, that makes sense! Great video
I wouldn’t worry about a tongue twister 😂. It happens to everybody including controllers. About ATC and the U.K.: just like in the US there is too much talking. Native speakers. I noticed that British ppl’s have a tendency to repeat everything also when there is no need to do so,
Haha. Always embarrassing though at the time!
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