Prosecution makes rebuttal argument at end of James Crumbley trial
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- čas přidán 12. 03. 2024
- Prosecutor Karen McDonald delivered a rebuttal closing statement at the end of the trial of James Crumbley, the father of the Oxford High School shooter.
Thank you Karen McDonald! I hope more parents will pay attention to their children. So sorry for the lives lost.
Parents do pay attention to their children and their children commit suicide all the time. How can that happen when they have loving, caring parents?
Did anyone else see the video of the home that demonstrated this kid's obsession with firearms? There was physical evidence of that obsession everywhere! Knowing that their child was deeply disturbed, how could they have not only allowed this behavior but contributed to it? I do believe in the 2nd amendment. However, I believe parents have a duty to protect their children- that includes providing them with help when they need it.
Amen
Booze bottle
Casings
Targets
& he left that hideous journal out in kitchen for anyone to read
Amen. I’m a gun owner and refuse to let the irresponsible off the hook. The Crumbleys are guilty as charged and any slippery slope argument is because my fellow gun owners have lost their damn minds when it comes to gun laws. The special interest groups have taken over reasonableness.
The only correct verdict here is one of guilty. Regardless, the defense attorney did a good job speaking, she's been pretty good this entire trial, she seemed very competent and fought and fought hard against a very strong State I do respect that, but instead of just saying "yeah they're guilty" let me tell you why.
I graduated in 2023, one year before the shooter would've and I'll let you in on my story with school officials and guidance counselors and such IN late November 2021, I'd have to check my old phone, but could've been the same day the shooting happened. I had unexpectedly gotten broken up with, I, personally lost many of my friends from COVID, and my parents actually had just filed for divorce, and getting dumped threw me over the edge and I sent some messages to my friend and my ex. I texted something like:
"I should just kill myself huh? I probably should, nobody would GAF"
The next day I got called into the counselor's office, parents called, the whole 9, when asked to explain what I said, I just said "I was in a relationship with this person, and we split up unexpectedly and it was frivolous, and yeah it looks bad, but I'm fine", it didn't work, I was sent home and ended up seeing a psych that day. I'm not comparing myself to the shooter at all, I had only wanted to harm myself, but the only reason I'm following this was my incident was the same time this happened, yet my incident was taken much more seriously, I tried playing it off like "It was frivolous, spur of the moment, and not rooted in any actual threat or desire to end my life" They didn't buy it, maybe I was a worse liar, but the parents got me therapy and am in college now. It was my first serious relationship and I already wasn't doing the best mentally and that threw me over the edge.
The only reason I am remotely following this case is that sobering thought of "what if" - what if I was failed in the same way as the shooter? Would I still be alive? What if my father didn't lock up his own firearms, would I still be alive? They're uncomfortable questions to come to terms with for sure, and you could debate whether those thoughts are even worth thinking about, but this case invokes them nonetheless. My parents, people who had irreconcilable differences banded together for their kid and did the right thing, what was at stake was more than a marriage, but the well-being of their only child, that came and always came first. It's all about doing the right thing, it's about getting help when your child needs it.
Do I need to feel lucky that my parents did the right thing then, or did they merely do what they needed to? We'll see what the jury says, but this case really did reframe my brain on that whole situation, it did give me a newfound appreciation for actually getting me help when I needed it, and it helped quite a bit for my transition to adulthood. I'm not trying to be overly advocating, or against a fair and decent trial, but I guess I'm biased and visceral.
Well done thank you for writing this
I have similar experience, I was cutting in middle school. Teacher was told by a friend, teacher sent me to the office, office called my parents. I was taken out of school the same day and taken to a psychiatrist. Given, my mom was a stay at home mom but still, a parent's only reasonable action ESPECIALLY with the messages that were written on that paper is to get the child help ASAP!! No next day, no "we have to work". Your child should be your #1 priority. It's obvious Ethan was not these parents' priority.
Sounds like you have good parents who cared to get you help that day! I hope you realize your life is worth living and living the best life you can. Your parents divorcing doesn’t mean they don’t love you! They do love you…….they just don’t love each other! ❤️thanks for sharing your story!
Thank you for sharing and this was very well written.
@@tatertotter808 Thank you for sharing, and I hope you are doing better these days. It's sad for everyone, there are truly no winners in this case. Four lives cut tragically short, two parents going to prison(probably), to get out and have to rebuild their lives knowing they will live the rest of their lives with their son incarcerated, it's just sad.
Outstanding rebuttal!
Boys & men are sadly taught sexism & that they need to tough things out instead of talk it out learn cope methods & its one of the many reason men/boys commit more crimes than women/girls- if you read Inside the minds of angry men, why does he do that by lundy brandcroft also then cops vodeo taped ethans video game collection they verbally pointed out grand theft auto video game were prostitute women are rapped, beaten, killed & there were two little boys 8 and 10 years old that played that video game that's only meant for 21 years old then they went out and raped and murdered a little girl at the playground so Ethan was not 21 isn't actually legally supposed to be playing it and quite honestly I don't even think anybody should play that video game no matter the age it's about influence on how to treat women young girls and Ethan talked about wanting to rape and murder the neighbor girl and he watched abused p*** on the internet this famous song Woman on a show called The Nanny actually participated in a scientific study where they had half the boys playing violent video games and the other half not playing violent video games and then once playing the non-violent video game showed more empathy than the other boys that were playing the violent video games afterwards on the nanny show she teaches parents how to raise kids I do agree that Ethan's parents are responsible for manslaughter but at the root of the problem it's not just the parents that's the influences that children are getting especially boys and men and sexism lowers empathy I remember in the 90s the principal hired a speech Giver that was talking about sexism and that girls and women aren't supposed to question men's and boys decisions because that they're not smart enough comprehend psychology and mental health and that they are like cavemen and that were supposed to just not try to get them to talk about problems and resolve them and after the school assembly boys were laughing and saying so if I slap a girl in the butt because I'm a caveman she can't question me LOL three girls from our domestic violence support education meetings said that 80% of the boys in their school were sexually harassing girls including music videos saying that was okay to treat girls like that and I remember watching a family show where the brother was peeping out of sister through a Peeping hole in the sister poked him in the eye when she noticed it and he told on his sister to his parents and they both come in and talk to the daughter and the mom says that the her brother their son needs to not be a peeping Tom it's not okay but you should have told on him instead of poking him in the eye dad says now wait a minute now I what's a Peeping Tom 2 my sister when I was a little boy and it's perfectly normal he's not going to get in trouble for this and I was just like what the hell boys and men are taught that it's normal for them to mistreat girls and women and women and girls are taught to minimize and accept the abuse the other cause of mass shootings in serial killings in America to be so high is capitalism it teaches individualism and they actually did psychological studies on the at universities and in countries like Netherlands where it's socialism democracy which actually gives the people the right to write the laws not the government so it's actually more freedom then capitalism and it's not communism like the Fox News is paid off the same socialism communism is more than government has all the power socialism democracies where the businesses in the citizens have the power and it actually makes crime really low in fact the Netherlands got rid of the death penalty in the middle of the 1800s and they focus all that of the funding to go into rehabilitating instead of debating the death penalty Millions go into those court cases cuz a lot of times they appeal them over and over again millions that could be going into rehabilitating people and lowering crime and they don't have holes and gaps in socialist democracy countries there are some countries that have capitalism but they focus more on the Socialist part like in Sweden so their crime is extremely low so there is a r o o t to this problem and we need to get to that r o o t to really resolve it I really don't think arresting parents is going to resolve this and stop mass shootings not that parents don't deserve to get arrested if they are neglecting their kids they should they should be in trouble before the kids act out but it's not going to resolve this and in Sweden they're gun crazy down there even the kids shoot non-automatic machine guns but there's no mass shootings and no serial killings they don't have holes and gaps in these countries and people are well taken care of Ethan Crumbley even brought that up in America there's too many holes and gaps and programs in our government's corrupt I mean he has sadistic problems but when the government doesn't take care of people that can trigger people to be more likely to give in to their sadistic behaviors and every human being according to psychology is sadistic to a degree there is a sliding scale like being happy someone got the death penalty is sadistic on the lower end liking a football game is sadistic on the lower end like to kill animals like Ethan is on the higher end and his parents not caring about him getting bullied at school are all adding to his trigger cuz there's people out there that are psychopathic and never murder anybody even Rich CEOs it's the triggers that make them more likely to kill not so much the amount of sadistic Behavior or lack of chemicals in the brain that help you feel empathy and these chemicals alone do not build up empathy it's something you have to learn as a child little kids will like smack another little kid and not even feel any empathy that parent has to tell them it's not okay and what can happen to that kid and it develops over time because their brain is developing Ethan's parents don't seem to have much empathy for their son or others Psychopaths that were made that way do feel emotion and empathy it's just they can turn it off real easily because they've been traumatized by abuse and they did CAT scans and studies on jail inmates I have high functioning autism and I didn't feel empathy an emotion on certain things that I later did develop later as an adult like when people say hi or hello I don't feel the emotion to say it back unless I know the person really well but after I volunteered for the domestic cuz the woman support shelter made me go or I'd have to go homeless which I'm grateful for so I did and I got a lot of good advice but then there was missing info like they told us that embed Trauma from abuse toxic people can be attracted to that but in the class I don't teach you how to fix it so I researched chakra healing and brought it into the class and everybody was really pleased by it and I finally felt emotion in that area for the first time I felt like I had hope that I can change the system and Society and prevent domestic violence and influenced me open that emotion to want to say hi to other people I don't know cuz they could be potential people I could educate about this I didn't have to fake it all the most Americans are very individualistic and fake but I feel even less emotion than others in that area but if I saw someone in trouble I always offer to help them out because my mom raised me community-based living she taught me to care about my neighbors and see them as my brother and my sister's even though they're not blood related in autistic and down syndrome's tend to start to talk when they swim and pet dolphin or ride a horse something turns on their emotion to say words there was a little girl with psychopathy disorder and she went to a farm Rehabilitation Center and they helped her feel emotion again she was severely sexually abused at a very young age she was mutilated also poor girl and her brother is was left in the crib most of the time in his skull was flat she was lucky she had good adoptive parents who sent her there
I have high functioning autism and ADHD and my dad wanted to pretend that I didn't cuz it's taboo and embarrassing and my mom would argue with him and say she does need help she actually worked with lower functioning autistics and she was really good with me and knew how to help me but my dad kept interfering and said I just had the devil in me and it took me a lot longer to get better I had to get away from my dad to truly rehabilitate and my parents divorced thank God but then my mom sent me to my aunt and uncle's my aunt was great in many ways but my uncle was very abusive and that just gave me PTSD and my aunt would make excuses for him but stand up for me at the same time and it made me very confused and I attracted the wrong type of people into my life for a long time and so I totally know how the effects of not having a parent take you seriously and get you help what it can do to you and the reason my mom sent me away is cuz her alcoholic boyfriend didn't want me there my mom was abused as a child and she attracted the wrong type of guys and he would beat up my sisters and I my sister's behave perfect he just didn't want us there cuz he wanted my mom to spend money on his alcohol she gave him all the money from selling our home and he bought a house put it in his name then dumped her then we were homeless cuz I lived with her part of the time I think what kept me from going off the deep end was that I did have some relatives even though they were enabling the abusers they did teach me some good coping methods and I think that helped kept me from losing it and I just couldn't way to grow up and get away from the adults in my family that were abusing me but I'm still working on my PTSD cuz my uncle convinced my aunt to have nothing to do with me when I called CPS and the cops on my uncle Aaron who is a molester rapist and abuser and another woman at a store I don't know who she is but she called on him too and they investigated my uncle has always pushed me away from my aunt cuz he didn't want a third kid cuz he was poor as a kid has her so brainwashed to hate me and the rest of his family and my family retaliated against me in abandoned me and I have a bone marrow condition and the government programs are very lacking and funding and I didn't get the in-home care I needed and now I'm slowly dying my family made up rumors they scared all my friends away in the woman support shelter meetings they said that it's very common for family to try to isolate you if you are the victim whistleblower and they even try to get me locked up at the hospital and tried to say I was self-harming but the doctor said I'm not self-harming and that autoimmune disease runs in our family and there's genetic testing in my family and I have lots of diagnosis before I lost all this weight and bone mass and my psychologist have never diagnosed me with self-harm the doctors aren't taking me seriously that Gaslight me cuz the medical field is a very big money market my sexual assault counselor told me that she was gaslighted to buy her doctors they tried to say she didn't have skin cancer over the phone she requested her test in paper form and it turned out that she did have full-blown skin cancer and she researched that a lot of people get lie to over the phone and told there's nothing wrong with them and she said there's no way this can be an accident this many times with the statistics of patience getting the wrong info on the phone that it's done on purpose they try to get you sicker on purpose by minimizing or make me think there's nothing wrong with you in order to get you to come to more appointments and they lie about the dangers of long-term Pharmacy drug use and like metformin causes permanent kidney damage and a lot of people assuming the pharmacy company over it and these doctors get big bonus checks every time they prescribe a new pill from the pharmacy company and it's horrific my cancer doctor I paid out of pocket and he told me the truth that you don't need chemotherapy to cure cancer and my sister and I did not do chemotherapy and this is when I had vasculitis of the lungs is 1 to 10 I was a number eight which can turn into cancer the lungs and both my sister and I went on a cancer diet and a whole food diet and I reversed in 4 months she reversed it in 2 months I need oxygen Hydro Barak tank treatment and I can't afford that out of pockets so and I just got so tired I've been through so many doctors and haven't found a good one yet Seattle has horrible doctors and I'm too sick to go to Bainbridge Island and Gig Harbor they have better doctors I'm thinking about going there anyways to the hospital cuz they have good ratings to try to get impatient which is really hard to do in most hospitals cuz if I don't have to travel back then maybe I can make it I'm getting that desperate it's just what if I don't get accepted and it takes a month for me to recuperate just from doing extra traveling but I'm getting to the point where I might have to take the risk Rhode Island has really good Hospital anyways I like chakra healing yoga teachers because they actually care about people a lot of psychologists try to put people on psychological pills which cause permanent damage on the brain long-term use and my aunt took me off Ritalin because I had seizures and put me on a natural flower call St John's Wort you can also go to the Natural store and take concentrated lithium mineral water for schizophrenia I don't have that but just for people who do have it I'm eating a whole food mush Diet also helps schizophrenics cuz they don't have the little branches inside their GI tract that push the food through so it causes malabsorption which causes the hallucinations and their funding this is what causes schizophrenia unless you've done drugs illegal ones that can cause schizophrenia from brain damage hope this info helps you
i wasn't sure where she was going with this but yes! Excellent rebuttal.
The parents seem to be self absorbed and devoid of concern for others. I sincerely hope this case is a wake up call for all of us to remember that empathy and kindness is key to a healthy world.
He. Knew rhat teen was disturbed to the point of torturing animals he even had baby birds heads in jars in his room they ignored his pleas for help. locking him out of the house on maby occasions. ,then went and bough a gun for this disturbed teen. Guilty
I don't disagree with the verdict, but James did not know about the torturing of the birds.
Karen McDonald is brilliant
We like her.
Not
She is evil are you crazy
Why is the mother of the first grader not on trial? She had the gun in her purse…
Wow
The rebuttal was on point!!!
So many people clearly do not understand the law. If it was a simple and clear decision that many think, they would not be out for 9+ hours. Who knows how much longer they will deliberate. They also had all night to think about it. The prosecutor did not make a very good case; hence the uncertainty.
She never proved her accusations of "they knew". No, They should not rely on common sense.They should rely on proof of facts.
The cable lock isn't stopping him. It takes less than 2 seconds to remove. 10 seconds on less than 2 off. Locks are a sense of security not security.
Lol, you set the gun down pointed right at you on that table🤦🏻😒
She is dumb as bricks
I know kids draw violent video games but ethan said he was deppressed & Im an artist & we draw what were feeling often or for political statements & the fact that he was drawing that cry for help on same day he said he was feeling deppressed can be a red flag
I hope he’s found not guilty just to piss off the mother…. She’s the evil insufferable one.
Haha I thought I was the only one thinking this😂
Ha! That's a take.
I believe she ran the house and made the decisions yet James should have protected his son by getting him the help he needed even if it was the only time in their marriage he reached down and grabbed his balls
Ethan told his dad & mom he wanted professional help so they said in emails they knew ethan was a little weird-studys show that all human beings have potential to hurt or kill others esp. More so if going through mental health issues so I say parents are guilty for ignoring their son plea to get him professional help
The school counselor just is guilty. The teacher were emailing him he blowing it off.
There’s no proof. There’s his word! He was a liar and a manipulator
The school counselor playing a complete different story in his own testimony than she saying in her closing arguments. But the defense had stronger closing arguments in my opinion.
He delayed notifying the parents, and he notified the Mom only. They had an stronger case against the Mom for sure. Where are his charges? Teachers reach out to him, and he brushed it off with no calls home! I feel like the Dad not as guilty as the Mom; the Mom was more involved than the Dad and was the one notified when the school did eventually did call home.
Even if Ethan didn't shoot up the school his dad call 911 to say he was scared his son was going to commit suicide which is proof that he knew his son was having mental health problems and did not get his son help which proves that James's negligent son and the fact that his son was playing Grand Theft Auto which others have committed crimes after playing is a red flag I read in a comment he killed animals I don't know if that's true or not but the rest I'm sure about Ethan even stated to the court that he asked his parents for help and they never got him help and the fact that James ex-wife said that he doesn't pay his child support and is it really active in his son's life proves that he neglects his children
Video games, like Dungeons and Dragons, rock and roll, jazz, and mystery novels, which were all blamed for crimes over the last century, do not cause crime. Numerous studies have debunked that theory. Ethan didn't murder people because he played GTA V like the 195 million people who bought it. Ethan murdered people because he was a lonely neglected kid who wanted to make others suffer because he was dead inside and chose mass murder because he wanted to be seen and remembered for once. They started leaving him alone to go bar hopping regularly when he was 6 years old. They fought all the time, often dragging him in it. He had access to drugs, alcohol, and guns, but not mental healthcare following all the losses he suffered. They made him what he became, not a game.
The parents led that child to do what he did. It was all in what they admired. Guns and shooting images that looked like people. That’s what they did as a family. That’s the only way he got attention. And to sit and play games that teach you to kill.
We’ve heard it all Karen the jury must be sick of listening to to you I’m quite sure they will be able to make a decision on their own
She is talking to the jury like they are pre-schoolers….This lady is more crazy than Ethan.I guess the defense did a hell of a job to make her sweat and pull out the gun.A pair of wire cutters can do away with that cable lock…Sit down and let the jury do their job….
That’s a reach comparing her to a killer. Stupid comparison
@@nancyc41 ok good point do you think it is right to blame the parents ?Karen McDonald is looking for that free ticket to the house Senate seat and is using these 2 parents to get there.We know we can’t control our teenagers every move .And so does Karen.These 2 parents would give their own lives to bring these 4 kids back.Did you by any chance watch Jennifer’s trial.
I believe she was very inarticulate. Very poor closing argument. Was all over the place.
@@elizabethwhitmore3381 yes correct the rebuttal was awful because verbatim the defense attorney had out talked them in closing.