Q&A WITH JOHN DEHLIN

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
  • In an interview 1/80th as long as the average Mormon Stories Podcast, Samantha sits down with John Dehlin to hear how his life is going post-excommunication. He tells us what he would say to the converts from his mission, reprimands us for using K-cups, and declare his undying love for "big ass breakfasts".
    FOLLOW US PLACES!
    Twitter: @ZelphontheShelf
    Sam's IG & Twitter: @TheSamspo
    Subscribe to Sam's weird not-about-Mormonism channel: • Video

Komentáře • 117

  • @Cuinn837
    @Cuinn837 Před 8 lety +36

    I am an ex-Mormon who doesn't drink because of the rampaging alcoholism in my family. But I love coffee!

  • @Rachel-jw7xq
    @Rachel-jw7xq Před rokem +3

    This is still one of my favourite zelph vids of all time

  • @jonathanhatch9567
    @jonathanhatch9567 Před 8 lety +12

    I think it was Nietzsche who said that the two great narcotics of western society are Christianity and alcohol. Kudos to Bro. Dehlin for not letting either inhibit his life #alcoholispoison

  • @CamOp3r4t3r
    @CamOp3r4t3r Před 8 lety +12

    Sundays are dope af.

  • @greggtownsend6744
    @greggtownsend6744 Před 8 lety +4

    The parting tagline should be, "Again we leave you from within the shadows of the everlasting hills. May peace be with you this day and always."

  • @sthomaslewis
    @sthomaslewis Před 8 lety +17

    Our bodies do not belong to the government, therefore the government does not have the right to prohibit us from using marijuana.

  • @ruthcrisler7005
    @ruthcrisler7005 Před 8 lety +11

    Yes a Zelph parody of Saturday's Warrior.

  • @mhall2323
    @mhall2323 Před 8 lety +11

    I bet John could raise some bank for charity by auctioning off his first drink. The winner gets to pick the beverage and be there in person to document John's final step into Sin.

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 8 lety +4

      That's an incredible idea (and noble) and I'm texting it to John right now!

    • @supermormon8647
      @supermormon8647 Před 6 lety

      This reminds me of the time Homer talked Barney into drinking his first beer. czcams.com/video/OxLjvY5CrjQ/video.html

  • @amandaroos9718
    @amandaroos9718 Před 8 lety +5

    Hahaha, I love this! Favorite question was the one about what would have to change in the church to get John to go back. Same here!

  • @kirklandmeadows
    @kirklandmeadows Před 8 lety +6

    The best interview with John Delhin ever....if you like that kind of interview. thumbs up

  • @kenzeeharmon4162
    @kenzeeharmon4162 Před 4 lety +1

    I drink alcohol sometimes. When I do drink I don't get drunk because I hate that feeling. I drink coffee everyday though.

  • @GrahamHettinger
    @GrahamHettinger Před 6 lety +1

    I always love seeing the this side of John!
    Another great video from Zelph.

  • @daric_
    @daric_ Před 8 lety +2

    I know a lot of Mormons who are active and spend their Sundays chilling at home with family watching movies after church. It's a lot more common than one assumes. It is only stressful for those who have read and attempt to strictly live "The Miracle of Forgiveness" where Spencer Kimball gives a literal laundry list of things that are acceptable and unacceptable on the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made to recharge yourself spiritually (going to church, reading, praying, etc.) but also emotionally and physically and to spend time with family and loved ones.

    • @JayJay-xw7bh
      @JayJay-xw7bh Před 8 lety +1

      Sure, lots do that...but the problem is, is that book is vetted an approved by the president of the church and therefore is suppose to be equivalent to scripture. Anything said at general conference, in church manuals, etc ARE what us mormons are suppose to be doing. Just because "most" choose not to do it doesn't mean it isn't expected. In our temple recommend questions it asks if we keep the sabbath day and do we attend ALL our church meetings and callings. We usually have callings that don't allow for the "chilling"on sundays. Go ask a bishop how much chilling he does on a sunday.

    • @cdowis
      @cdowis Před 8 lety

      No it is not scripture but contains insights on how to live the righteous life. This so-called "laundry list" is merely suggestions, and I have never attended a meeting or class where such a laundry list is taught == it is left to our discretion.

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 8 lety +1

      Same!

  • @daric_
    @daric_ Před 8 lety +9

    The "Thug Life" clip was pretty dope. Haha

  • @dang3340
    @dang3340 Před 7 lety +11

    John was a missionary in the Tempe Mission. I was part of the spanish speaking mission and was the first person he met when he came from Guatemala. I have fond memories of that time. He was funny then he is funny now. seems to be a great guy. We have a lot in common as far as beliefs. I still have not left the church completely but my heart is no longer there for the same reasons John left. It is hard to leave when your whole family is part of it and they will abandon you if you do leave.

    • @filminginportland1654
      @filminginportland1654 Před 6 lety

      Dan G Not all will. None of mine did (and I transitioned male-to-female as well), but many do. Especially in the Mormon corridor. Such an unfortunate thing. Church should _never_ be above family.

  • @NewNameNoah
    @NewNameNoah Před 8 lety +27

    Sweet mother of Elohim! I always pictured Zelph on the Shelf as some sort of old geezer. If THAT'S the face of Zelph on the Shelf I'm totally subscribing to this CZcams channel. 😳
    She's adorable!

    • @caleb8239
      @caleb8239 Před 8 lety +10

      I'm totally stealing "sweet mother of Elohim". Hands down most hilarious way to take the Lard's name in vain.

    • @jimmykennon9499
      @jimmykennon9499 Před 6 lety

      newnamenoah, she is adorable, like you have wrote...D&C 132!

  • @bodalix18
    @bodalix18 Před 5 lety +2

    Mr. Dehlin you seem like such a nice guy. I'm so glad you found life outside of Mormonism. I'll be checking out your channel.

  • @Teelo_Green
    @Teelo_Green Před 7 lety +2

    A Saturday's Warrior Review (old or modern) would be Dope AF!

  • @andginisin
    @andginisin Před 5 lety +3

    “Sundays are dope af.” - John Dehlin

    • @weaksohyeah
      @weaksohyeah Před 2 lety

      lol
      i should make this my twitter bio

  • @sthomaslewis
    @sthomaslewis Před 6 lety +2

    I voted to legalize cannabis in Oregon, and I consider myself TBM. It,raises the eyebrows of some LDS and other Republicans. Federal laws against cannabis violate 10th Amendment. Even at the local level, it violates free agency to make it illegal and extends the police state.

  • @tlotus3032
    @tlotus3032 Před 6 lety +2

    So far so adorable. This is a new side to John I have not seen. Me likey.

  • @jenniferwolford7205
    @jenniferwolford7205 Před 5 lety +1

    Oh and loving your channel btw. I feel I can relate personally to almost everything said.

  • @cliffcrosland
    @cliffcrosland Před 8 lety +4

    Pretty please, make a video where you do humorous responses to common chastisements from TBMs. Eg. "We really want you in the celestial kingdom with us." Response, "Yeah but I've heard there's much better Wi-Fi in the Terrestrial Kingdom." Share some ways to make these immensely painful conversations into something funny where both people can laugh.

  • @ayecapn
    @ayecapn Před 8 lety +3

    is there an opportunity to piggy back these on Mormon Stories? Kind of like a fun exit interview after they spend 36 straight hours talking to John?
    I like the rapid fire Q&A and edit model. You get some real honest answers when it goes fast. Looking forward to more silliness!

  • @weaksohyeah
    @weaksohyeah Před 2 lety +2

    guys ive just seen this, and i swear to the holiest of cows this was the funniest exmo video ive seen. fuck you peaked early! so cute the pair of you. YOU are the comedians at church

  • @joecook5689
    @joecook5689 Před 5 lety +3

    I like both these two.

  • @kimberlyandersonamft3031
    @kimberlyandersonamft3031 Před 8 lety +4

    Thank you for introducing me to the COTF. Wow. I swear the rock I was living under was pretty nice.

  • @supermormon8647
    @supermormon8647 Před 6 lety +6

    I wish I would have watched this before I got ta watching Mormon Stories. John Dehlin comes off as very likable in this video.

    • @weaksohyeah
      @weaksohyeah Před 2 lety

      i know! i just discovered this and im like ARE THEY THE CUTEST

  • @carsoncalderwood772
    @carsoncalderwood772 Před 8 lety +10

    I was afraid this would be dodgy or a damp squib but it turned out totally hunky-dory! Well done peeps!

  • @KandisSJGroup
    @KandisSJGroup Před 7 lety +4

    Marijuana is a wonderful way to recreate for those who don't or can't drink alcohol. It also has amazing medicinal properties. Legalization also takes money out of the hands of the violent cartels. Make it legal for 21+. It's not nearly as harmful as alcohol. No one ever got high and beat their spouse. A recent study showed that using MJ lowered the risk of domestic violence. I would come back to church for Lesbians. If you brought lesbians I would go. :)

    • @filminginportland1654
      @filminginportland1654 Před 6 lety

      Kandis Glasgow yeah, everyone is too lazy and zoned out to be very abusive to anyone lol

  • @ShadeLeeds
    @ShadeLeeds Před 3 lety

    Buying Taking Back Sunday merch for John

  • @ameliaweixler6976
    @ameliaweixler6976 Před 6 lety +2

    "Sundays are Dope AF" 😂

  • @rexmobley2760
    @rexmobley2760 Před 8 lety +2

    John Dehlin for President !

  • @caleb8239
    @caleb8239 Před 8 lety +6

    How about a video showcasing some of the dumbest illogical defenses of mormon history and doctrine?

  • @troybolton14
    @troybolton14 Před 8 lety +1

    "take back your sundays" all i could think about was the band Taking Back Sunday

  • @jacobopstad5483
    @jacobopstad5483 Před 5 lety +2

    John Dehlin is so fun!

  • @joools1953
    @joools1953 Před 5 lety +5

    Coffee is my favourite sin. And I'm not, nor have ever been, mormon.

  • @chloecagle6493
    @chloecagle6493 Před 5 měsíci

    I love this video

  • @tracy8359
    @tracy8359 Před 3 lety +1

    Ya, Rene. All you had to do was put a jacket on. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

  • @mjp2palmtree
    @mjp2palmtree Před 5 lety

    I once worked with people with disabilities and I was paid to take them to church, literally the only way I’d ever go again.

  • @joedavies1988
    @joedavies1988 Před 8 lety +3

    Best part of the video.. "Im very environmentally conscious." , "Not with your cake cups." Hahaha You forgot to add the Thug Life glasses to johns face!

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 8 lety +1

      SHOOT, we did.

    • @filminginportland1654
      @filminginportland1654 Před 6 lety

      Davies Crew I hope you meant K cups :)
      They do make biodegradable K cups you know, right? So you can compost them. Otherwise, there's kinda no point. Might as well just use pour over or a coffee pot with reusable filter. Lost a lot of the convenience.

  • @jaybeefun
    @jaybeefun Před 6 lety +1

    i look forward to church on sundays.

  • @coleneves6499
    @coleneves6499 Před 8 lety +4

    itd be interesting to see Tommy Monson as the president of the USoA, there hasn't been a presidential assassination in my lifetime.

  • @jenben5alive458
    @jenben5alive458 Před 7 lety +1

    could you do one on the second annointing? If you have already I apologize😊

  • @thedunkirk7
    @thedunkirk7 Před 8 lety +3

    I remember a story in seminary about a boy that decided to skip seminary one day, and ended up getting hit and killed by a car.

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 7 lety +5

      Mikel Tafuna Nothing culty about that!

    • @filminginportland1654
      @filminginportland1654 Před 6 lety

      Mikel Tafuna I hate hate hate those kind of horrific cherry picked (and often made up) stories. People should be ashamed of themselves for doing that!!! I remember bullshit like that, too.

  • @PrestonFergusonnow
    @PrestonFergusonnow Před 8 lety +2

    Yaaasssss!!! Only suggestion - lets work on the mic/audio😜

    • @AdamWyson
      @AdamWyson Před 8 lety +1

      John has so much experience with this I can't believe he didn't say something.

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 8 lety +1

      +Adam Wyson I totally convinced him that it would be fine because I'm too lazy with filming stuff. I'll do a better job next time! - Sam

  • @troybolton14
    @troybolton14 Před 8 lety +7

    PLEASE DO A REVIEW OF SATURDAYS WARRIOR 😂😂😂😂😂

    • @kennethd.9436
      @kennethd.9436 Před 5 lety +2

      sher Absolutely! A cringe by cringe review.

    • @weaksohyeah
      @weaksohyeah Před 2 lety

      @@kennethd.9436 cringe by cringe lol!

  • @michellemcentire2440
    @michellemcentire2440 Před 8 lety +3

    I love my Sundays now, also. It's not just an extra three hours spared from the boredom of repetitive, same-old, same-old church services. It's a WHOLE EXTRA DAY in my week! I'm a much more productive human with my Sundays added in. Love 'em!

  • @maeri-jodavey3565
    @maeri-jodavey3565 Před 5 lety

    Saturday's Warrior was my favourite Mormon movie when I was Mormon. I want to see the remake.

  • @Rachel-jw7xq
    @Rachel-jw7xq Před rokem

    Get John back on for an updated interview 😅

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před rokem +2

      I think you’re gonna really like this 😛
      czcams.com/video/XWQ74JcXXWc/video.html

  • @makesen
    @makesen Před 8 lety +1

    Do the Saturday's Warrior review, but also review Saturday's Wampum if you can still find it anywhere. Too funny!! A line by line review of false doctrine and wishful creations of scenarios to get warm fuzzies by. Better than hot chocolate in winter!

  • @stuartsenften237
    @stuartsenften237 Před 8 lety +1

    Love you Guys!! John should have taken a Shot of that Jack Daniels to finish the Interview..I have a feeling he would have liked it!!

  • @2009glories
    @2009glories Před 4 lety

    Marijuana destroyed my brother's life.

  • @StormWarning40
    @StormWarning40 Před 8 lety +2

    So funny!! ❤️❤️❤️

  • @Questioner365
    @Questioner365 Před 8 lety +1

    Mark E. Peterson for sure is the antithesis of Christ.....
    And, my favorite "commandment" would definitely be the "Word of Wisdom" since most Mormons just don't get it, AT ALL, and most leaders just don't get it either, or even know about the history of 70+ years of infighting to make it into a super-refined and toxic letter of the law commandment - against the advice of Christ (D&C 89:2) whoim they made irrelevant. The WoW IS all about Gadiantons taking over all of our wholesome unrefined foods and herbs for health and healing (not just 4-very refined letter of the law don'ts) in verse 4.
    Look at what Mormons eat at ward parties - lots of refined foods more toxic than the 4-don'ts (a hijacked WoW). Look at what we are advised in priesthood blessing, to seek the best medical care (which Gadiantons can provide - all refined and synthesized toxic drugs). Those food and drug Gadiantons bash God's wholesome foods and herbs as "ineffective, dangerous or deadly" while few ever get injured or die from herbs which heal, while the medical industry injures or kills million per year just in the US alone...
    Yet, what do we worship in the WoW? How the hell can we expect to get the promises for following God's words of kind, loving non-judgmental advise if we just don't get what we are supposed to follow or understand (Verses 18-21). Do we even see many LDS with health or wisdom sitting around us in church? Pervert the "commandment" (advise) and get perverted rewards/promises?
    Are the FDA, AMA, prophets, buildings, false commandments... honest to goodness Idol worship...? Oh, and we worship leaders who are doctors (of the Gadianton variety) and lawyers and such... Are our new health saviors the AMA, FDA, APA, our new holy trinity whom we dare not even question? We sure have been trained to follow the leader? Members sure defend their new saviors' products 100%, because their leaders do.

  • @d.levichestnutwoodboillot8022

    "take back your Sundays"...yeah, fallen away.

  • @annalohr5951
    @annalohr5951 Před 8 lety +5

    Sam! it made me so happy to hear you're vegan, so am i! maybe you could do a video on the word of wisdom and how somehow eating meat in the summertime doesn't seem to break it. Crazy. Anyways, Zelph is the first real exmormon blog i've found and it's really helped me with moving beyond mormonism and dealing with my active family. thank you so much!!!

    • @dodgerdave777channel
      @dodgerdave777channel Před 7 lety

      Tangerine Sky333 The Hip Hop Chrissy on the meat in the word of wisdom when you find it at every LDS Ward dinner occasion its first is rather disturbing after you realize a few things about the church you may notice that they're probably heavily invested in the meat is murder business and it's all about the money for the corporate Empire if you want to live the word of wisdom perhaps following the Seventh Day Adventist is a better route I think they actually try to follow the word of wisdom or something close to it they have the Loma Linda products featuring play based Big Frank's they were practically a religion in our family and herein LDS Landslide Deseret dead cow in a can Devine starving Mormons who is there probably worst animal carcass leftovers for Deseret Industries follow the money and you learn a lot about the LDS church and all of the churches you'll also notice that of cultists tend to be the founders of many religions look at SDA and the Watchtower and Scientology and Mormonism

    • @filminginportland1654
      @filminginportland1654 Před 6 lety

      Tangerine Sky333 Mormons love meat, that's for sure! And I do too, but I try to limit myself.

    • @weaksohyeah
      @weaksohyeah Před 2 lety

      i know i was like yaaaaay shes vegan! John Delin - get with the programme

  • @lorineilson7529
    @lorineilson7529 Před 6 lety +1

    Great interview. If I were to go back to the LDS church I would want to hear about Jesus. He is the Way the Truth and the Light.

  • @morganpoland3245
    @morganpoland3245 Před 8 lety +2

    You are both so funny and attractive and smart!

  • @GrahamHettinger
    @GrahamHettinger Před 6 lety

    My favorite part: 14:12
    Haha 'fecal matter'?! Did I miss something here?

  • @theDyingAtheist
    @theDyingAtheist Před 5 lety +1

    "Sick" John, sick!

  • @srreiley769
    @srreiley769 Před 8 lety +4

    Don't cave to the pressure to drink. Only do it if you really want to do it. I admire that you left over ideology and not because you wanted to sin. LOL.

  • @Lazykitty261
    @Lazykitty261 Před 5 lety +2

    That was so funny

  • @tamalthor697
    @tamalthor697 Před 8 lety +1

    Are you familiar with cinemasins? An 'everything wrong with' cinemasins style 'review' of Saturday's warrior would be an awesome addition. m.czcams.com/users/CinemaSins

  • @Phornax7
    @Phornax7 Před 7 lety +1

    Tip: turn off the auto focus.

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 7 lety

      Thankfully, our video equipment has been upgraded since this video! :)

  • @sylawi
    @sylawi Před 5 lety +1

    This guy is so funny

  • @TheAggie2309
    @TheAggie2309 Před 5 lety +1

    All I drink is coffee and wine lol i could never be mormon even if they paid me! Also, he's right: reusable k-cups are way better!

  • @deusimperator
    @deusimperator Před 6 lety +2

    3 Mormons are comedians , or at least try very hard to be.

  • @luvmorrisey20
    @luvmorrisey20 Před 5 lety

    I still go to church and well, if I was able to leave and had to go back, I would go back if they told the WHOLE truth.

  • @killerbing11
    @killerbing11 Před 5 lety

    Dude, booze wont fuck u up unless you pound it back. Just drink a few beers, done, go to sleep. Beer is not an upper. Stay away from liquor.

  • @dIggl3r
    @dIggl3r Před 6 lety +1

    Not with your K-cups! :-D

  • @ivonna.tinkle
    @ivonna.tinkle Před 5 lety +1

    #SundayFunday

  • @Cuinn837
    @Cuinn837 Před 8 lety +5

    It would be great if you did a video on the blessings of not paying tithing. And how poor children and the disabled suffered for the paying of it.

  • @mattybond
    @mattybond Před 5 lety +1

    Don’t his followers already think trump is a prophet 🤔

  • @phebzs8080
    @phebzs8080 Před 8 lety

    not with your k cups....LoL

  • @genejones7124
    @genejones7124 Před 2 lety

    Favorite dead apostle...LeGrande Richards

  • @glenncalder1430
    @glenncalder1430 Před 8 lety +2

    cool as fu

  • @edsnow1526
    @edsnow1526 Před 8 lety +6

    John . . . .for godssakes have a drink!!

  • @dodgerdave777channel
    @dodgerdave777channel Před 7 lety

    you two did mention some things that really hit home premiere I don't think I'll get into this Saturday's Warrior it's a little too personal the moment and hurts too much and Nephi Anderson added upon my life is built around and I said before for me and others the spiritual world is real even if Mormonism in all religion seems to be about big business and control merged with people behind the scenes and other power centers but I will mention this Sunday thing trying to keep the Sabbath day holy resorting to church videos like the mailbox and what about Thad and Johnny Lingo I mean there's only so much that you can watch trying to keep the Sabbath day holy
    it's just mentally repressive then again if you were in Moses his day if you ever existed which I doubt when little mess up in they actually made a community activity other stoning people to death
    I think I'm picking up sticks I think I read that and numbers that guy was horrible human sacrifice stuff and numbers 31 is sick so somehow Jesus seems a little hypocritical if she actually was supposed to be the god of the Old Testament can can you tell I probably read too many Bruce mcconkie books back in the days when I was study in the doctrines yeah John Mark E Peterson he's actually kind of easy to read a lot easier to read than McConkey you just like to hear himself talk yep a Cadillac I read that one hey what about LeGrand Richards & L Tom Perry or they fun to listen to sometimes how about George Durant and Paul H Dunn no need letting truth get in the way Paul H Dunn was probably the most Faith inspiring General Authority I ever listen to how pathetic is that
    and then he just reformed and started picking corn on sun on the Sabbath almost said Sunday on the Sabbath with his friends and said the Sabbath was made for man and not the man for the Sabbath for us it was made for church videos and reading until I was ready to pass out and maybe finally take a walk they didn't seem too Sabbath breaking since I read Brigham Young discourses he said all the people on picnics we're going to hell I tried hard to do the right thing of course the 7-hour day just to get to church and back was part of it maybe I'll save that for another comment another time that was brutal you always do a great job all the best is getting long but you know it's weird I just mentioned before Samantha look-alike remind me a lot of my daughter she actually handed me a newspaper article after we had talked all night though certain things and in it was a website which was related to John from there I went from something about stay Mormon two John's Mormon stories and Avalanche started to fall because I already had serious concerns about certain things I become aware of over the years and it's weird right where you're from to John it's just too many weird coincidences just before I was on the way out I went to church probably near homestake the guy I knew Wanda join in the church there and then he was telling me how they were progressing in the church and I tried not to mention things that were not what he want to hear and what I've been learning

  • @BethanyKay
    @BethanyKay Před 5 lety

    Lol, Epic fail on answering the favorite millennium exmormon blogger question! Haha. Super entertaining interview :)

  • @johnpatterson1750
    @johnpatterson1750 Před 8 lety

    john seems like a nice guy, but his hatred towards gays is appalling.

    • @ZelphOntheShelf
      @ZelphOntheShelf  Před 8 lety +6

      We're assuming that's a joke, in which case YEAH, WHAT AN OUTRAGE!

  • @billygrey5422
    @billygrey5422 Před 7 lety

    it s shite

  • @jaybeefun
    @jaybeefun Před 6 lety

    the pre existence is why it all makes sense. why else would we be tested or judged for our actions on this earth if we didn't agree to come here?

  • @theDyingAtheist
    @theDyingAtheist Před 5 lety

    Samantha, I think you cuss a lot in 2019, have you dumped K-Cups yet? (Still, a model look, even more, beautiful I think.) Great blue eyes! I bet John would like a re-do on his Trump comments though.
    Whatcha say, John?

  • @jimmykennon9499
    @jimmykennon9499 Před 6 lety +1

    John Dehlin, you are a jerk...you must be seriously mixed up to still be attacking the church...get a life

  • @jahrasta4907
    @jahrasta4907 Před 6 lety +2

    There is definitely no animosity in those blue eyes, ha ha. I've seen a bunch of Zelph vids and realize some LDS dude probably rejected you, so you ditched your 6-yrs of LDS conversion, and took to CZcams to vent. Don't worry, keep being the fun clown that you are. By the way, I'm ex-Mormon but not as butt-hurt as you. Move on....

  • @robertstewart302
    @robertstewart302 Před 6 lety

    Isn't it so strange that apostates cannot get on with their lives, it seems like they just cannot pull themselves away from the family they once had, it seems to me rather like an obsession with not being accepted that they cant cope with, it may very well be true that there is a mischievous force out there that sustains them, because it seems odd that they try to belittle others for their choice of happiness. I hope they do not offend beyond redemption, as it would be nice to see them getting on with their lives happily