The "Biceps Push-Up" (GOOD OR BAD?)
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 30. 04. 2020
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A year ago I made a video regarding how to train the biceps at home with no equipment. When the push-up is modified by supinating the hands and leaning forward, the biceps are stressed as a stabiliser. In calisthenics, straight arm scapula strength is an important part of what we do. Conditioning the elbow complex through the use of pseudo planche push-ups is essential for pain free strength. If the goal is to perform supinated back levers and planches, we need to improve tissue capacity by gradual exposure and overload. We can all agree that full range of motion exercises involving elbow flexion are the best way to grow bigger biceps. However, context means everything in training so saying something is good or bad without knowing the full story is irresponsible. - Sport
For people who just opened the comment section - No need to scroll, all the comments r about athleanx
Sherrinford Holmes lol ahaha thatâs why weâre here
I was about to comment that XD.
And Daniel indicated this video towards athleanx. Both are physical therapists and at prime of their game.
JESUS not just 1 or 2 comments all of them are about Athleanx
@@sadradehbashi3598 makes you realize athleanxs influence
@@rudranilkundu6114 r u Indian?
Daniel laying the truth out
Wow, pleasant surprise I just started watching your videos a few days ago. I started incorporating your flexibility/mobility routine so I could get better. You're really awesome man
To be honest you and Daniel are the best when it comes to real workout information keep up with the good work! Best calisthenics channels out there
@@FelipeBerio also calimove, those guys also put a bicep push up video today
100%
@@FelipeBerio So true, I love these two channels. Also do you think Dominik Sky is good?
4:33 love that part :D
Aye look who's here!
đđ
He was throwing shade like a bawse and I was here for itđ€Ł
This is some next level CZcams Drama, instead of screaming at each other, they just show off their guns
Its like the fma meat shop flex off.
Lol. I love that scene in fma.
Or maybe it's not CZcams drama at all
@@mathieul4303 oh it is
These clips of bicep tears give me anxieties...
I read this comment before I got to that point in the video and I was wondering what you were talking about. I got anxious too.
I literally put my Hands on the screen for that part.
I find it oddly satisfying, like the smoothness of how the bicep tears off. It looks like they're flexing their bicep and extending their arm.
@@shaahidfaiz2889 lol
Clap back
Daniel gave a hell of a reply. I'm a supporter of both Jeff and Daniel. I want a discussion on leg extension. Daniel vs Jeff.
For what I understand they aren't really contradicting each other. Jeff's video it's more about building bigger biceps and why the bicep push up is not the exercise for that. On the other hand, Daniel's focuses on how this exercise can help you develop healthy, stable biceps that will help you with more advanced calisthenics skills and overall injury prevention. They just focused in different things. But hey, that just my understanding of the videos.
Here's a way to reconcile these two, the bicep push up is the face pull for biceps, those videos of bicep rips have me convinced, and even though i i don't have an aim for planche, i'va never heard of people tearing their biceps from planche training, i might actually integrate the bicep pushup as some form of rehabilitation exercise.
The thing is most of the people now looking at calisthenics are people who did weightlifting and now have no access to it
They probably don't fully understand the principles and mechanics of the body enough, this usually why they might call an exercise too easy and they might not even be doing it right
@@erockthehorse completely agree.
Yesss i'd love to see a debate about leg extensions.
"As health professionals, as people training hard, we should be telling other people that the body is strong, resilient, capable of change and adaptation".
Love your attitude, think I'm gonna use this quote a lot!
I seen Jeff's video the other day. First person I thought of was you.
Me toođ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Same
That sounds so sweet hahaha
So did I!
haha same here
This video in brief:
The bicep push-ups is a good exercise for biceps as a stabilizer. This exercise is good for tendon strength and straight arm strength.
Don't get disheartened when Jeff says that this exercise is dangerous. Jeff gives advice trying to minimize the injuries that people get, if an exercise had minimal chance of injury and better alternatives exist, Jeff would recommend not to do that exercise.
Daniel here believes in people and their strength. Even if an exercise had some chances of injury, he will recommend it as those chances are very less and risk-to-reward ratio is low enough to do that exercise.
Don't get into an argument about this exercise. You need to have some decent levels of strength and wrist mobility to do this. If you're an absolute beginner then it won't be as rewarding.
Jeff also dissuades people from the muscle up and thinks of it as a cool party trick that is dangerous to learn and has no real applicable uses in real life.
I take everything he says on bw fitness with a grain of salt.
PPPU aren't "optimal", but if you have no equipment, try doing pppu or just tuck planches alongside your pulling work. Your biceps will explode. In a good way.
Any type of pull-up (including chin-ups) are quite dangerous if you don't have some stabilization strenght. Same as almost any bw exercise, and it's even more unsafe to only use machines and never do any stabilization work for your joints and ligaments.
Anuraag Chetty well put. ;)
Really good summary bro
This guy's comment: "Jeff gives advice trying to minimise injuries..."
Athlean X in the meantime on his old squat workout video: " *BREATH OUT* "
Next on Athlean-X: *"WHY HEFESTO IS KILLING YOUR GAINS"*
why street workout is killing your gains
Next on Athlean-X: Why Athlean-X is killing your gains
*Why making gains is killing your gains*
Haha
Name incomplete. His name is Jeff Cavalier Athlean X dot com
It always looks like he invented the pushup
4:32 "you put that BAD BOY here"
Since when did Daniel become moody and use words out of his gentlemen dictionary đ
Watch his unlock your shoulders video
He challenges you to a basketball pickup game
I think u already know the reason đ
@@erockthehorse haha just did! i also remember him saying "tighten the life out of them glutes" in his HSPU video which was funny
@@ryanazhar9262 i genuinely don't
Glad you addressed the general consensus and skepticism regarding calisthenics workouts.
Much respect!
My 100% favorite youtuber, always deep on subject and straight to the point đ
Athleanx made a video on this, and I was interested to see your viewpoint.
me too
Oli N THIS IS THE RESPONSE VIDEO YOU DINGUS.
@@jeagerkej3171 .... oops
@@jeagerkej3171 His comment is not an imperative sentence though, but rather a declarative sentence in which he is stating his thoughts that he is interested to see his viewpoint.
What a wonderful 10 minutes of instruction. No nonsense talk. And Daniel's voice is really pleasant to listen to. Thanks so much!
You've got one of the most stable and clean line of action for presenting your thoughts, I feel the message is genuine and sincere. Thank you for opening up my mind for new challenges systematically. Cheers
it's probably so stable because of his bicep pushups, strengthening those stabilizing muscles.
@@YouTrolol lmao my sides
You really look and sound so sincere and genuine when explaining your videos!! I really loved watching this!!
Great body, great mind, great videos as you already know. I love the fact you support not to limit ourselves in certain movements. We just need and conditioning which is simply made through progression.
That biceps injuries sequence actually hurt me.
Awesome video none the less !
Awesome as always!!!! Much love from Brazil
The is BEAUTIFUL!!!! I love this response NO name calling.... Just Clear facts and demonstrations!!
Love the way you did this video, the analysis but also the mentality you promote is awesome as always. Reason why youre my go to fitness youtuberđđŸđȘđŸ
Such a great move to talk about nocebos in your videos. Something that is greatly missing with a lot of Fitness CZcamsrs/Influencers. And its so important!
I like what you're saying. The man you're debating while always a great source of information is not infallible, as like the rest of us. You're doing the right thing by opening a dialog, which is the most efficient way of creating new information instead of simply presenting. Thank you
Glad someone made this video. Pseudo planche push-ups are all about building straight arm strength for planche maltese back lever etc. nothing to do with huge guns for beach goers. Well done
God damn phenomenal biomechanics explanations. This is the good shit
This video was one of the bests you ever did, great message and content, this is how a "response video" should always be.
Amazing communication, loved it. I'd like to see more of this 'overarching' message (6:48) which teaches us about these crucial concepts and the big picture, next to videos with more specific (but still extremely valuable) information.
I strongly feel that Jeff (of Athlean X) is only addressing the "average man" with baseline fitness goals and not from an aspect of someone building goals towards calisthenics. Both Jeff and Daniel come from two fitness related perspectives. I am absolutely sure Jeff knows many in the calisthenics community and is very aware of their training methods. I believe if someone just wanted to rotate a new pushups movement into rotation simply for variety, the biceps pushup is something that shouldn't be considered. Every tool is important in the right context.
Jeff is right by a point, if you picked bicep push ups for ur push, you couldn't be performing well on your pull day, so it ruins your hypertrophy/strength routine in this case. Also Jeff talks about choosing an exercise for "bicep"
Jeff isn't addressing the "average man" so much as the "uninformed man". There are no such things as "good" or "bad" exercises in the oversimplified way Jeff constantly suggests. The truth is nuanced, and Daniel has encapsulated much of it in the video above.
You right bro cuz Jeff is not a Calesthenic athlete, he is a bodybuilder or something like that and in comparation Daniel is a true calesthenic athlete and he got the property to talk about this kind of excersice or movements like this one because he know what it feels, i never seen Jeff performing a backlever... đ€
SpiritWolf2K youâre right. And youâre wrong.
Jeff is *not* a calisthenics athlete. Thatâs not his goal. He uses basic calisthenics exercises to reinforce concepts relative to either weight lifting or to real life scenarios. (Not that Daniel doesnât, because Daniel does as well). Jeffâs goal is strength for life. So do not get confused that Jeff has âno goal he is working forâ. He also consider different needs of individuals. He is not egocentric. Each individual that Jeff deals with has *different* needs and goals. And Jeff does the best he can to help them reach it. Iâm quite sure heâs had a couple of clients whoâs goals were *not* met with Jeffâs training.
Youâre wrong that Jeff does bad form. If heâs been wrong, he updates his videos and admits faults. (Hint hint, how many CZcams athletes do admit fault nowadays???) On the contrary, many calisthenics people do bad form. You generally see the good guys doing it right (Daniel, Austin, Sven and Alex, a few others). But so many people do it wrong! I mean, go look at CrossShit...err, CrossFit. Jeff doesnât preach bad form. And this is expecting basic moves of calisthenics. You want more advanced moves? Jeff is NOT the calisthenics person then. So donât expect him for dip bars, rings, or other calisthenics/gymnastic equipment for advanced techniques.
Daniel is the pro at *calisthenics.* So if he believes there is a way for a biceps push-up , proves it scientifically and by *real-life* practice, and has others follow and do it correctly for their benefit, then it works.
âNuff said. Cheers.
Then he should learn the correct form and provide the right information
Example: in his home workout he does HSPUs with the wrong form and recommended dive bomber pushups rather than pike pushups- millions watched that video
Fantastic response! đđŒđđŒđđŒ
Amazing video for all of us that have a desire to learn. Thank you Daniel.
This is why I subscribed to you when I first saw your vids. Top quality
Well said my man. Completely agree with your video. Always seeking improvement, and never standing on anyoneâs shoulders. Keep up the good my friend. đȘđđ
Nice Daniel, that is why you and Calimove are the best :) keep it up
Massive respect for the clarification and presentation. I've learned soo much from this channel
Wonderful video, sir :)
Great to see that You clearing up the topic, since some BIG fitness professionals on CZcams, trashed the exercise... smh...
Nuthing but quality content and the truth on this channel. Keep it up!
The amount of information you put into your video is crazy. You really help me get stronger and bigger and i have learned so many things from you. Thanks a lot Daniel Keep up the good work!
This video plus CalisthenicsMovement's helped a lot. I felt it in my biceps for sure after making adjustments. đ
Iâm thankful to have such a knowledgeable source for information. Thank you Daniel for FitnessFaqs!
This was one of the most entertaining videos youve made
I have been doing this since my school age and it has always helped me get better. Thanks for brushing this knowledge again buddy!
Good someone addressed this topic! Thanks Daniel
This is a great exercise I have used for sometime and have seen great results with it. Jeep up the great work Daniel.
Man, I love these videos
I've always structured my training around the EASY principle:
1. Enjoyable. You should like what you do first and foremost. You won't stick to what you don't enjoy.
2. Accessible. If you can't get to a gym, don't cry because you can't deadlift 1000 lbs. Use what you can access. Create opportunity and remove obstacles. Restrictions breed creativity.
3. Scalable. You can't become complacent. You must be able to add weight, increase the lever, drop your sprint time, increase resistance, or whatever. You have to be able to make it more difficult if you want to progress.
And finally, make sure that
4. You are successful. You should be able to set goals, track your progress, and see results. Higher rep counts, better physique, faster times, better endurance, etc.
Fitness is EASY. Make realistic goals given your assets and abilities. Pick exercises and programs that allow you the best shot at reaching those goals, adjust, revise, and move forward. Same goes for diet and nutrition.
If your goal is to planche, lever, and iron cross like a pro, then this seems a fitting progression. If the so-called "bicep pushup" doesn't meet your needs or fit in your program, don't use it. Seems pretty reasonable to me. But people have to remember that doing planches, levers, iron crosses, and malteses are going to put your body into a compromised position in the first place. You have to be able to handle the stress of the exercise and that can only be done "safely" through sequential progression, but there is always risk involved. Even weightlifting is risky. If it weren't there wouldn't be so many spoof accounts dedicated to "gym fails."
The point of contention and misunderstanding seems to be that this is "THE BEST" bicep exercise. And that depends. It's hard to quantify "the best" of anything within fitness. Do you want size, shape, definition, stability, plasticity, elasticity, strength? This social media spat seems based on the assumption that Calisthenicsmovement and FitnessFAQs were touting the pseudo-planche pushup as "THE BEST" biceps builder for strength and size, which it isn't. It's a progression to further skills. Think of it as an additional stimulus instead of a wonder exercise to fix all of our non-Schwarznerian biceps. If you want all of the attributes above, you have to incorporate several training modalities to achieve that. You might also have to sacrifice in some areas and prioritize your goals to achieve the look and performance you desire. No body can have absolutely everything.
Calisthenics and weightlifting are sets of skills and techniques. Sports, if you will. You have to do the basics to become proficient at either. This isn't to say they are mutually exclusive, either. One needn't adhere strictly to one or the other, but one MUST adhere to the form and cues of the particular exercise they are performing. You wouldn't squat by loading the bar with 500lbs and first bending forward in half at the waist. You don't attempt your first planche by hanging rings off a bridge (you shouldn't do either of these things EVER imo, not even for the 'gram). The amount of tribalism associated with the fitness community is astounding to me. Your body needs a holistic approach to feel and look good and to maintain a certain level of fitness and conditioning. Why not be holistic about your training regimen? I follow many people on both sides of this particular argument, and in their spheres of influence they all have merit and decent qualifications. Their arguments are well-presented and educated. We just need to remember what the specific goal is and how to process the information we are given.
Anyway. Rant over. Thanks for the video, there's my two cents.
Great perspective 100% agree!
Well put, brother. It's rare to see thought after comments like these.
Excelente comment. Thanks for sharing. I just posted in my Whatsapp Status if you dont mind!
If you enjoy an exercise youâre probably relatively good at it and it doesnât stress your body much, so Iâd recommend doing exercises you donât enjoy
Harry Vaughan Iâm just saying you should enjoy the programming in general. If you donât like to run and it doesnât motivate you to get out and do something then donât structure your workouts around it. I personally enjoy the challenge and pain of training, and I like the results, and if you read down to the âScalableâ portion I addressed progressive overload and progression.
You are so right about strengthening ligaments and joints. I mean all street workout athletes/gymnasts are training to be strong in positions where otherwise is dangerous. Like the maltese/planche hold for example
Such a good Video ! Keep it going
Superb! Great explanation!đȘ
Very rational and well thought out response
Appreciate your objectivity when evaluating this topic bro
Thank you for the incredible video! It is as informative as all of your uploads and you keep your composure in the said "debate". I use air quotes because I do think Jeff would also agree with you in the context that you provide. All in all thank you for clearing it up and applying proper context to the issue. Hope you stay healthy.
You're absolutely right you got trainers on CZcams saying you should never do reverse push-ups you can hurt yourself. Well I started doing them along with regular push-ups triangle push-ups I found out it's made me more flexible and it does not hurt! I'm glad I seen your video!
Great guidance Daniel! It's about progression and listening to and understanding your body.
Context is everything, especially this. Great video with lots of clarity.
Excelent video. Love the thorough explanation. Its just, perfect
Jeff cavalier : Ok I get it now ... thanks Daniel !
Lovely the video, put jeff back in his place. Smashed him with kind words and knowledge.
I thought I'd never see the day someone would challenge Jeff. Great video brother.
Excellent video Daniel - this explains the need for gradual progression and the importance of the straight elbow position of the bicep. I am suffering a little soreness in the tendons around the elbow and bicep. Likely due to starting pelican curls. I will add these bicep press-ups and rows to my routine. Thanks !!
That makes sense.
Now I feel more confident putting this excercise in my workout knowing what is the main goal of this.
Also I started doing calimove's mobility routines and my shoulders are so much better.
same here!!
Hi Daniel ! Thanks for this video.
I totally share your point of view. There's no such things as Good and Bad movements, there all are human movement patterns. If we're strong enough, we managed to perform them, if we're not, either we fail, either we get injured. We gotta take time to learn and prepare.
You help so much people understanding how the human body works and how to improve themselves. I seriously esteem your work.
Keep up the good work and pls believe in my highest considerations
Plot twist: Jeff does bicep pushups when nobody's looking.
Good explanation! Please, we need another one like that, but now about the plank vs V-sit.
I changed the plank for the V-sit because of another video.
exactly what ive been asking myself.. cheers for that!
Brilliant as usual. Thanks for your effort
Thanks for making this video. Subbed.
Jeff: biceps pushups are killing your gains
Daniel: fight me brah
Jeff: Why One arm Pull up/chin up is killing your gains.
Imagine him seeing a Hefesto
Because he can't do it:)
@@ragnarlodrbrok2561 at least for now.He can do that if he trains for itđđđŒ
@@ragnarlodrbrok2561 he couldnt do a muscle up without kipping
People always get their panties in a bunch with these discrepancies between professionals, and then proceed to point out one or the others "faults or inabilities", as if this where an issue of beef... it's not. Just professionals having differences.
Great discussion, makes me think more about it
I donât have any goals related to the planche but Iâve used the pseudo-planche variation of the push-up simply to increase the RPE of my high rep-horizontal push movement. Great video mate.
"There is no Messiah in fitness"
James Linker.
Really agree with your argument, especially the fact that thereâs a trend of making people worry too much about possible injuries.
@KĂ©vin P and slamming hundreds of pounds on a bar doesn't tax your body? Duck outta here with this BS. Training, with disregard to your current limits can be injury inducing, regardless of the type of training. Hell, even a regular pushup is going to fuck up your shoulder if you do it without warmup. Being thoughtful is one thing, but worrying all the time is absolutely ridiculous.
Daniel even points it out in the video, going on full supination might not be the smartest idea, but it is something you can work on. And strictly regarding the pseudo planche push-up, this is not just for biceps, it's also serving as training for holding planches/planche push-ups.
KĂ©vin P I agree with you. This exercise is good in order to get the planche or as a progression of the same but we it can be risky if you donât have enough wrist mobility. Jeff has trained to big athletes such as NFL Players so he knows that an injury in one of them can be catastrophic so he doesnât recommend this kind of exercises. I like Daniel vids too but In this topic I trust more in Jeff.
@@edwinzavala90 Jeff can't do a bicep push up, Ergo, I don't trust Jeff. Jeff has a biceps ball with all the stabilizing muscles stunted, Daniel is much more harmonious and controls his body much better.
this is great! logical and amazingly explained.
Great video and presentation!
Love your explainations. A+.
This video explanation is exactly the comment I left on Jeff's video :) just take a look at the biceps of rings gymnasts, that use massively the stabilization/shoulder flexion isometric strength of biceps with exercises like planche, zanetti, azarian etc
Well done!
love this chap
At 48 and realizing the varying ways I had been doing exercises incorrectly, I am appreciative for the thorough nature of the intel given.
Simple because with proper action come proper reaction. Thank you. Change the way you think and you body will follow
Thanks Daniel. More time should be spent by online pros about strengthening connective tissues. Well done!
Glad you took the time to respond to Jeff's video. Your presentation of arguments is a pleasure to watch. Let's see what he has to say to this
Discovered FitnessFAQs two months ago. Not only has it taught me things I didn't know, but now the channel reads my mind. Introduced this exercise into my routine yesterday and thought, 'I wonder what Daniel thinks about this...?'
Daniel: excellent. Lovely analysis.
very solid video. especially this positive approach.
Daniel approached this issue vert well, and I'm glad that we have people like him that don't start a whole lot of drama over nothing!
Very interesting and thoroughly informative video!
Brilliant vid
Very nice work bro đȘđȘđȘ
Iâm glad you made this video to discuss the exercise in more detail! I made a similar video responding to Athlean X, and now, itâs great to hear another perspective from such a highly knowledgeable individual. đ
your video is pretty good too bro đ
Matthew K Thanks so much! I appreciate you taking the time to watch it. :)
âWhatâs up guys Daniel Vadnal from AthleanX.com ....â
Sorry my bad....
âWhatâs up guys Jeff Cavalier FitnessFAQSâ
đđ€Šââïž
Eminen- Stan
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@@angelgfromcorkerii8797 just correct this, top level of anime savage mc
Congrats on 1 mil!
Amazing explanation Daniel.. there's nothing so self motivating as calisthenics... have been doing pseudo planche push ups thrice a week without any harm and for sure this is more effective. ..
Kudos for you for making this video!
That surely is an answer to athleanx! That last part, of people being able to adapt and create resilience, well said Daniel!
One of the best bodyweight training channel.
Brilliant video
Endless respect for highlighting that most bicep injures occur in straight arm movements. I had elbow pain because of endless bicep curls and cured it by doing a lot of straight arm bicep work(pseudo planche).
I'm glad I fallow both you and athleanx!
Damn those biceps tear footages đš
Makes me scared to train. And I am starting up strength programming again.
Lift what you should, not what you can
@@Polarcupcheck A lot of those deadlifts the guys were not pulling with proper form and it seemed like they were actually trying to curl the barbell up. Just be sure to research each exercise you do thoroughly and maintain good form. Don't let fear dictate you choices.
daniel again showing why he is at the top of the youtube fitness game
and whilst the other channel in question here has a lot of very good information he also has a lot of ridiculous ignorant sounding stuff on there as well
very tactfully debated daniel keep up the great work