Jordan Peterson's Brilliant Breakdown on DOSTOYEVSKY "Notes From Underground"
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2023
- Jordan Peterson breaks down and explains the novella Notes from Underground, written by Fyodor Dostoevsky.
Fyodor Dostoevsky is one of the most significant writers in the history of literature. Born in Moscow in 1821, he was a Russian novelist, philosopher, and journalist, and is best known for his penetrating explorations of the human psyche in his novels.
One of his most famous works is "Notes from Underground," a novella published in 1864. The novel is a first-person account of an unnamed narrator who is living in St. Petersburg and is often referred to as the Underground Man. The Underground Man is a former government official who has become disillusioned with society and has withdrawn into himself.
The novel is divided into two parts. In the first part, the Underground Man discusses his philosophy of life and his belief that human beings are not rational creatures, but are instead driven by irrational impulses. He is critical of the idea of progress and believes that human beings are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. He also discusses his own sense of isolation and his inability to connect with other people.
In the second part of the novel, the Underground Man relates a series of incidents from his past that illustrate his ideas about human nature. These incidents include an encounter with a prostitute and a confrontation with a former schoolmate.
"Notes from Underground" is a complex and thought-provoking work that explores the human condition in a profound and insightful way. Dostoevsky's portrayal of the Underground Man is both sympathetic and critical, and his analysis of the human psyche is both compelling and unsettling.
The novel has been interpreted in many different ways, with some critics seeing it as a critique of Western rationalism and others seeing it as a reflection of Dostoevsky's own personal philosophy. Regardless of how one interprets the novel, there is no denying its power and its enduring significance as a work of literature.
Original lecture: • 2017 Personality 11: E...
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Compared to early neolithic humans, modern humans already have everything, yet we are probably no happier than early neolithic humans.
No ! Todays humans have lost all the humanly qualities due to technology .
probably no happier. no. certainly more unhappy.
@@ianhall7193 I'm not so certain. Ignorance is bliss. If you don't know what you don't have you don't miss it. Absolutely life was rougher, but I don't think that challenge necessarily translates to unhappiness.
@@tjwoosta children in the modern world are killing themselves. child suicide, a concept that didn’t exist even 400 years ago. need i say more ?
I would say we as humans have chosen convenience over fulfilment
I think these old lectures of Jordan’s are some of his best videos.
Dostoyevsky leaves no one a place to hide .
So true. It’s like he’s gonna take your soul out of your body and put its deepest darkest secrets in front of you. The ones you try to hide and ruin away from.
"Rationality fails in its analysis of something as complex and terrible as history." ~Fyodor Dostoyevsky
That's poignant, actually. I think the same theme could also be said of the confidence of climate projections.
@@FergusScotchmanHere, here...
what does this sentence mean?
No, it does not. This very critique is the result of the rational mind decrying the irrationality of human beings.
It took me 4 months to read Crime and Punishment, I mean REALLY read it.
It was the best book I've ever read.
I think it might be my favourite novel too. It's certainly up there. The last third of Crime and punishment is so unbelievably intense that it seriously affected my daily mood and peace of mind in the span I read it. Dostoyevsky is often unpleasant, but I still find him very rewarding and worth reading.
Did you read it properly? Why did Raskolnikov turned himself in? Irwin Weil in his lecture on Big D. gave a wrong answer, so don't worry much.
@@mikkirurk1wasn’t it because he loved Sonya and he knew it just wasn’t worth living with her shame?
I took an existentialism class in college, and I remember that Dostoevsky's writings were powerful and brilliant. Like he was really getting into the fundamentals of consciousness and perception.
I am one of the Russian Classical Literature addict. I read Russian. Russian is my first language. I feel sorry for my English speaking counterparts: they read the interpreters, not Dostoevsky. His language is so nuanced and multi faced. You can do the conclusion briefs and digests… And I would argue about the nuances. But from the bottom of my heart- thank you for attempting to understand the Russian Universe by the name of Dostoevsky
Interesting. Have you tried reading Charles Dickens? I feel like his writing would be impossible to properly translate from English.
@@ethanclark4116 Thank you. English is my second language therefore I am reading the English speaking authors with respect. One will say- I am not reading but studying. I am blessed to understand the power and beauty of the English language: the clear sound of the author’s thought in my head, the beauty of the direct understanding of the language without translating.. Unfortunately it doesn’t work when I speak or write…
Я согласен абсолютно. Мой второй язык русский но не очень хорошо. Я в этом время читаю по Чехова и мне очень нравится, читать с родным языком автора что то было записано давно себе чувство как будто ты возвращаешься к такому времени и месте
@@ethanclark4116 Спасибо большое! Русская литература - это для меня Вселенная. У меня по ночам играют аудио книги. Это мои колыбельные. Попробуйте- рекомендую. А чтобы не платить за аудиокниги- много на CZcams можно найти бесплатно.
Удачи вам.
PS Я от всей души желаю вам полюбить Гоголевские Мертвые Души. Это шедевр: язык, образы, юмор, сатира…
С богом! С праздником светлой Пасхи!
@@annadontsova2495 спасибо за рекомендацию! Я скоро буду вычитать её.
С богом
One of my favourite books that continue to influence me. It is actually really funny at times and it made me chuckle and laugh while reading it. The main character is so unbelivably hopeless and petty that he gets into theese cringy hilarious situations. And yet... Funny as it is, the book is also actually quite frightening at the same time. It gave me a view of what my life could look like if I didn't start seriously working on myself. Dostoyevsky can see right through people like me, and it can actually be quite emberrassing.
Reading Dostoyevsky always disturbed me, like hitting a raw nerve, I never finished one of his books. Solgenitzens Gulag, no problem.
@@nikbo40 why is that do you think? I have not read The gulag archipelago, but as far as I understand it describes far more atrocious actions that actually happened.
@@glennmathisen2537 Interesting remark. Planned on reading Gulag archipelago. Where did you get the info that actions described didn't actually happen this way?
@@TheArendt1
Notes from underground = Fiction
Gulag archipelago = Non fiction
I think my comment was pretty clear about that
@@TheArendt1from Putin
It took me a few attempts to read NFU.
Every time I got into it I was so overwhelmed by the thoughts and feelings of the underground man.
It was as if someone had held a mirror up to me, with all of my imperfections and bad traits on display. Everything I hated about myself, but didn't necessarily realise, laid bare, beautifully and intricately stitched into enthralling, raw, brutal literature.
It's an extraordinary book.
What a beautiful and honest man you are! Respect 🙏
I felt the same way. Now, when such thoughts and states of mind try to creep in I try to remind myself of the end the Underground Man met and of his unfortunate, but, nonetheless repulsive character which I don't want to embody. He served me as a warning of what might become of me if I didn't face my inner weaknesses.
It really shook me to my core the first time I got through it. I felt a similar way after finishing Kafka's The Trial, but I was much younger then and the impact was for different reasons. I was a grown adult when I read NFU, and to this day it has impacted me as much as anything I've ever read. Genius...
@@huatian1552that's a really good point. I feel like the modern generations have become too reliant on learning just from successful people, instead of harvesting lessons of what NOT to do from those who fail. And since so many more fail than succeed, it's probably best to identify weaknesses to be corrected first and avoid those patterns that so regularly show up amongst those such as the Underground man. A bit of material success yes, but otherwise a complete failure as a man. Be warned all that enter that path...
@randylahey8207 thank you, professor Hegel taught me so :)
I agree also about the Trial from Kafka which, for now, is his only book I read, since I'm a law student.
A book which reminded me of Notes from The Underground, in the same line of thought as before, is Osamu Dazai's tragic No Longer Human
“Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over compensations for misery. And of course stability isn't nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand.” ~ Aldous Huxley, 'Brave New World'
Notes from the underground made me realise how much of a bad person I am and how I was going to become if I continued my ways
You're not a bad person. By realising the issue, you're already unlikely to stray into the pathologic.
We all have a little narcissist in us and it's both terrifying and illuminating when we realise it.
@@radioactivepotato2068 Im 21 so I’m still hopeful for the future, I think God helps even the most miserable people if they take the first step
@@user-zv7yb4yp9g Exactly! Most 21 year olds think they are bad people. I sure did too. But 20 years later you realize you are not "bad", you are just learning your way in this world. Listen to wise people but also don't believe anybody blindly - think for yourself (the hardest thing to do when someone presents a nicely packaged idea). If nothing else realize one thing - THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS
Wasn't familiar with this book before. Have now ordered it. Thanks for posting.
Dostoevsky is sometimes more powerful than reality. His novels are like a vortex They suck you in.
I read Notes from the Underground when I was 19 at college and I recommended it to everyone I knew back then. They all loved it.
Brilliant lecture...such passion for the subject.. thank you
As much as I love Nabokov and his playful lyricism, I just can't abide his blithe dismissal of Dostoyevsky. Like the Underground Man I used to be bitter, insecure and angry at the world, and always striving to prove to other people that I wasn't just a piano key like them. Dostoyevsky plunges straight into the inner depths of my soul, scours it and then always manages to find something that I did not even know was there.
Time for me to reread Dostoevsky!
He is a criminally underrated author who remains very relevant to our times. If you are new to his work, you will find the prose over lengthy and difficult, but stick with it, the rewards are immense. The Grand Inquisitor rant is a tour de force that can be read as a standalone piece.
No.He is absolutely not underated.
Maybe in America..not here in Europe and the world
Let me put it this way.
Dostoevsky Nietsche = prophets of a new religion
I agree, Grand Inquisitor is probably the most though provoking piece I have ever read or heard.
@Alex Sveles
Why do people just call everything "under-rated", on every single youtube clip one looks at? It's completely idiotic.
Dostoevsky is widely - universally - regarded in the top 10 or so writers/novelists ever. Many would say THE greatest.
"Under-rated", my arse.
@@alexsveles343 What are you smoking?
Nice clip.
Excellent eye-opener, I loved it
Notes from the underground is My favorite book of all time.
Great video🙏✌️
I read it in college, I agree with Dr Peterson
Also an interesting book that deals with a topic of a man who lives as hedonistically as possible but without actual purpose is Oblomov, from Goncarov. I was really enjoying reading it, hopefully others will too
This was first piece of Dostoevsky work I read
"What if dissatisfaction is a part of what satisfies you? "
Soo trueee
I just love mr Jordan ❤️
Good observations by Peterson. The Brothers Karamazov is Dostoyevsky's signature masterpiece, hands down. The long monologue in that book about the existence of God is a brilliant examination on the nature of the soul and faith. However, in my opinion, the greatest novel ever written is Les Miserable by Victor Hugo. Aside from just being a great, epic story, it goes into magnificent detail in the examination of French society at the times portrayed and takes the reader on a long journey to both the utter depths of human depravity as well as the divine heights of the angelic potential of the human soul.
Michael Granger- What do you think is the great American Novel written or even the Top 5 or 10 Great American Novels written?
@@HoldenNY22 Not sure if it's the greatest but definitely in the top 5, Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury. The timeline of the story l is non-linear, i.e. the plot jumps, so you have been forewarned to pay attention while reading this great novel.
Boring shite imo. Archaic writing style. Extremely irritating.
@@HoldenNY22If I could recommend a few possible contenders. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck, Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury, The Secret History by Donna Tartt, and Sophie's Choice by William Styron. All wonderful reads.
The Brothers Karamazov is my favorite book by far, and I've been reading voraciously since age 3. It seems we can find everyone we know in one of the brothers....
imagine your teacher is Jordan. what a joy
Great lecture.
excellent investigative questioning from the detective
Finally, something I can agree on with Mr. Peterson. Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment" moved me greatly. The story of Raskolnikov and his conscience is mesmerizing. I have read the book over and over again. It is not only a classic; it is also a real page turner. I have read all D's books inclding "Notes From The Underground". Dostoyevsky was a psychologist years before the word ever existed. "Notes From The Underground" is all about the Imp of the Perverse (Poe). The hero of the story knows right and wrong and he deliberately does wrong just to exercise his freedom of choice. He does not want to do what people expect of him. It is too constraining. He chooses the wrong path just so he can say "A-Ha" to the world. Dostoyevsky was a grim and dark writer. I do not believe that any writer before or since has understood the human mind quite like D.
Grim and dark? Popular misconception. Try to reread Dostoevsky. Kafka is dark and grim. Dostoevsky never leaves you without hope for human soul, no matter how sinful it is
Chillax bro. That is my point of view. No one else's. Cheers!@@Ivorybird09
Fellas, try Pelevin. Modern russian writer. Best you can choose - Schapaev and void (or Pustota).
This short book is worth one hundred philosophical treatises. This book is my mirror.
I tried reading Notes form Underground some time ago, but probably many years ago. I had a hard time getting through it. I will try to read it again soon alogn with Crime and Punishment and other Dostoyevsky books.
Test yourself with the Brothers K. I find it nearly unreadable.
This is the young Jordan Peterson whom I love, before he got involved with ordinary politics, but sought to understand the depths of man’s humanity.
He didn't get involved wih politics, as you state. He is simply an unapologetic truth teller, which makes him the enemy of the radical left. He simply stands his ground.
Just like The Underground Man lol@@notofthisworld5998
Alyosha Karamazov and his master are some of my favorite characters in all the literature I have read. I guess Harry Potter and Dumbledore have received some features of the two. And "The Grand Inquisitor" - along with Kleist's "Marionettentheater" - are my favorite short stories.
I read Crime and Punishment and the Idiot in high school. I've been reading between the lines ever since.
Prof Peterson‘a scholarship is matched only by his passion.
Excellent!!!!
This is my favorite book. It’s life changing for your soul.
Why soul changing? So are you a better person now?
@@kaberigomes2117 it might sound pretentious but when I first read it I genuinely became a more self-aware person, I can't claim it would do that for everyone though.
Dostoyevsky was truly genius man.
Facts checkmate
I'm currently beavering -- floundering is more like it -- my way through Demons primarily thanks to Dr. Peterson's reference to it in his lectures. It's a fascinating if mostly non-nonsensical read for me -- made much worse by the Russian tendency to call the same character by several different names -- but I really can't put it down. There's been a couple absolutely hilarious in their absurdity scenes but mostly each chapter is like reading a surrealist nightmare. But the experiment continues... slowly.
Watching this video actually opened several doors for me though. I would not have 'gotten' those points without having read some Dostoyevsky first, so it was a real chicken and egg situation. But several of Peterson's comments about his writing really struck a chord. So there's hope.
I have Crime and Punishment on deck, and now will be adding Notes From Underground shortly.
Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I've ever read - Raskolnikov, the main protagonist is flawed in many respects but maybe not quite to the extent of the guy in NFU
what a brilliant video, the point at the end has manifested in my life recently
I read an article that suggested, "To be a great leader, you need the right mindset."
That might be true ... but then who is going to qualify as a judge concerning whether another person's mindset is "right?"
What I take from this is that it's blatantly honest. I remember being like that in front of my therapist and he busted up laughing. "Why did you laugh??".
--"Because it's the most honest you've ever been with me."
ily jordan, God bless you
One of the most uncomfortable books that I´ve ever read. The character´s mind is so twisted, bizarre, pathetic and cruel that it gives you an almost unbearable feeling of awkardness and uncomfortability. Despite of all of this, I deeply recommend It. There´re not many books that tells the story of these kind of human beings, and considering that these people really exist, it´s mandatory to read them.
Very good point. They DO exist.
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all.
Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Ecclesiastes 9:3
The underground man lives in most if not all people.
The Underground Man represents the human condition
the discomfort comes from being able to relate to him on some level. I think everyone can relate on some level. Everyone has the potential to be an underground man, even if they are not an underground man.
68 years old. So much to learn. Yet so much more to un-learn.
Awakening is not finding who you are but discarding what you are not. Much love ❤
WOW!! AMAZING AMAZING
Great reflection on narcissism.
Narcissism can become an ideology too, here the victorious narcissists like the suffering and anarchy around them, they do not want change because it would deprive him of his narcissism, ask more of him.
He knows the wellness or rational his narcissism provides him has costs, he is willing to pay the non human cost.
True. The book was like a dagger in the heart for me, I saw a lot of myself in the underground man, I guess I'd picked up some of that from my mother.
Made me very conscious of and adjust my behaviour, I'm confident I'll never get lost in the haze of the pathological again.
It was a solid kick in the teeth and I'm bloody grateful for it.
Very insightful comments.
If You Enjoy the Video, then check out Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment".
LINK --> czcams.com/video/Up1zMM0P3Uw/video.html
THANKS FOR WATCHING! APPRECIATE YOU GUYS c:
Wow. I oughta get that book.
I don't always agree with Peterson, but his reverence of Dostoyevsky and interpretations of his books are 🔥
Dostojewski and Jordan Peterson made me realise the darkness within us is the same darkness, the same weakness that is found in characters like the Bureaucrat in this novel or maybe worse characters.
It just has not unfold that much because of socialization, general wealth and lack of pressure. But it is there and we all have to be very careful to think we would never be capable of this or that.
"I agree that two times two makes four is an excellent thing; but if we are dispensing praise, then two times two makes five is sometimes a most charming little thing as well.” I want to get this tattooed on my forehead
I remember reading this book and in a moment clarity i realised that had very similar traits as the underground man. It scared the shit outta me and really dont know what to do now. I am kinda stuck in a messianic narcissism but at the same time a part of me wants to see the system collaps. And i feel good for admitting it. How do oneself really change?
I don't think it's a rhetorical question you ask. The thing is you do.. change.. all the time. And if you are conscious of it and want to direct this process, no matter how feeble your attempts are, you will change into a path you want to go.
You change by doing good to the surroundings. Like all in life you do love or its evil. Very easy.
Help animals, give them shelter, freedom, good food, cook them food, not just buy it, take them to vet. Feed birds. Plant trees. Have a young people as parent friends, we have such possibilits in my country. Help people dying by sitting at their beds. Help elderly persons. Help in a soup kitchen. Meditate a lot so you know what your purpose is. Some people are souleless as the have no consciousness, but then you can try to mitigate what you do bad to others. We are many people on different awareness levels.
Read "The Sermon on the Mount." It's all there.
Sounds interesting...Who wrote that?@@dirtycelinefrenchman
Self Sabotage
My favorite novel from Fyodor Dostoevsky is "the dream of a ridiculous man" which despite what some think is an amazing journey inside a sad mind seaking the redemption. I learnt Russian reading this text when I was a young boy. Please take a look at this tale - and I guess that you will be able to understand why we can say that Dostoevsky is one of the most great writer whom God gave the illumination.
Я смешной человек. Они меня называют теперь сумасшедшим. Это было бы повышение в чине, если б я всё еще не оставался для них таким же смешным, как и прежде. Но теперь уж я не сержусь, теперь они все мне милы, и даже когда они смеются надо мной - и тогда чем-то даже особенно милы. Я бы сам смеялся с ними, - не то что над собой, а их любя, если б мне не было так грустно, на них глядя. Грустно потому, что они не знают истины, а я знаю истину. Ох как тяжело одному знать истину! Но они этого не поймут. Нет, не поймут.
Salutations de France ++
I prefer Bulgakov but Dostoevsky is great too. Camus is solid as well
I was just searching for this title, and ugh, Peterson came up. Usually, I scroll past with an eye roll. This time the irony was just too much for me to pass by.
also want to recommend you guys (as russian and also big fan of some dark literature like Georges Bataille, Antonin Artaud, Jean Genet, Gabrielle Wittkop) another russian classic as Yuri Mamleev "The Sublimes". this is post-Dostoevsky great author
Dostoevsky was correct. Sanity is the projection of all your psychological responsibility onto society, everyone else socializes you (even schizophrenics until their psychosis begins). Insanity is the opposite, a recollection of infinite responsibility onto your fragile mind, collapsing it. Individuation, personality development, creativity, and authentic expression are the means for sane adults (25+ years old) to reach higher levels of autonomy. Failure to leave the crowd means you will never know your true self.
Schizophrenics are the litmus test for society's wellbeing; they're the most psychologically responsible and the spiritual guides of humanity yet also the most misunderstood, shunned, feared, and oppressed. And society, all of us, pay for its sins being monopolized by one value (greed > all other values combined i.e. courts, military, pharma all sold out), spiritually sick masses, and minds breaking more by the day. Wokes have to pick up the slack (of course not consciously) becoming faux-crazy to amplify and incentivize the mainstream to adapt or die. The woke culture is being used as an ant mill and smokescreen to keep the public distracted by the uber wealthy. The billionaire cabal network driving the top end of the socio-economic hierarchy is dominated by dark triad psychopathologies (psychopathy, narcissism, Machiavellianism), or those w/o it are forced (via game theory) to adapt similar methods or be pushed out. Ironically enough, they don't technically have control (despite Machiavellians valuing control above all). None of the individuals can alter, stop, or slow the game without the aid of the others, and since they are all the absolute pinnacle of competitive, untrustworthy, psychopathological schemers they remain in a deadlock. They consciously value control more than anything and believe they have it, but truly it's an unconscious projection of their own (the people have the power, you're just decentralized and unfocused, schizanthroposic).
Referring back to sanity vs. insanity, the fate of the dominant species on the planet is infinitely, infinitely, infinitely more responsibility than one sane mind can handle, they can't even handle responsibility for their own mind, much less 8 billion. All of humanity is technically schizanthroposic or collectively insane (i.e. Man vs Woman, Black vs White, Politics, Religion, tribalism etc.). We never have had a common purpose, intent, leader and never will until overcoming insanity, at least partially. Schizophrenia is like all psychopathologies, it's an evolutionary adaptation with tradeoffs (minimize the weakness, maximize the strength and they become powerful cognitive upgrades). One of schizophrenia's pro's is it's a long-term solution to the problem of psychological responsibility .
One person can not take responsibility of the species until they've taken full responsibility of themself, their unconscious will NEVER allow it (your body alone is trillions of cells). Consciousness is freewill btw, so having infinite freewill and infinite responsibility of the species with nearly zero understanding of any of it or its consequences (chaos theory) while existing in a physical, deterministic universe would be so irreconcilably stupid that "mother nature" could never allow. In this case "mother nature" is your own unconscious mind. Quintillions or more lifeforms and cells across billions of years have struggled, adapted, and died all so one power-hungry loon could nuke it all? Not on your life. Sure, there’s power struggles but realize that ethics and all it’s values are creations of evolution, we just steal and relabel and use them more abstractly (animals can be greedy, brutal, cruel etc.). Your own unconscious mind doesn't trust you to the degree you either don't take psychological responsibility or socially integrate (and will absolutely punish you accordingly). Mother nature is no fool, and she has most of you convinced you have far more control than you do. Your body is in the fully deterministic universe, your mind is a compatibilist projection (determinism and freewill, unconscious mind is more deterministic the farther down you go and vice versa) and your consciousness is freewill, a projection of a projection.
Many of the psychoanalytically minded greats like Dostoevsky, Nietzsche, Jung all had intricate knowledge and/or experience of schizophrenia and madness. Coincidence? Psychosis is the unconscious mind initiating universal psychoanalysis of itself, the beginning of infinite understanding, and a whole fuckin' multiverse of white noise. The cure for schizophrenia is conscious psychosynthesis. Consciously create, unconsciously destroy. Repeat x ♾ And since insanity is a recollection of your responsibility the more you conquer your own insanity the more powerful your psychosynthesis skills and powers become (it’s not superpowers, just the ability to create unconscious minds that create unconscious minds, machine learning is closest facsimile. And you still have to be accurate to the universe or the entire system collapses, and you're lost in the sauce of madness again. or just get yourself killed irl with delusional beliefs.)
I conquered insanity by taking infinite responsibility and putting it on my consciousness alone. Insanity tested me, and I "played that piano key" until my unconscious begged me to stop. It wasn't an elegant solution, but give me a break honey, a fella's gonna find things out the hard way the first time. I’m still a work in progress, aren’t we all... but my goal is to eventually play *_the one song; the universe._*
I know that was long-winded, dense, and not terribly helpful for most of you on a short-term conscious, individualistic level. But consider this, all these ideas presented are scientifically backed from a credibility standpoint. And it's all cohesive thanks to psycosynthesis (took years of research to align and fine-tune). And from my PoV all of these survive insanity itself, which tells me they are universal truths. Consciously it's probably mind-boggling ?!? (feedback would be lovely, but I get the feeling people are unconsciously repulsed by me for a variety of reasons), but over the medium to long-term this is *the* map of the universe your unconscious can use to orient itself. Obviously most people know most this stuff, but even one piece out of place technically has infinite consequences a sane mind can't predict, chaos theory and such, so you orient yourself to society/sanity.
Hi to all of you nice people here. I like to compare people comments on different videos and subjects on youtube and i must admit,to read people comments here is a holiday for my soul and brain. Honesty, curiosity, debates without angry words,no hate, no humiliation of each other and the language and gramma is just lovely things to see and read. But so it goes when people make comments on Jordan Patterson lecture. It is kind of different level compare to comments on Kim Kardashian videos or some war and politics video 😉. I love you people ❤️🙏 and i love you Mr Jordan ❤️🙏
Makes me think of the Universe 25 project where all the mice given a perfect environment died.
I wonder if Peterson has read much of Tolstoy. Calling him more of a sociologist indicates he probably read War and Peace, but Anna Karenina though dealing with a lot of sociological issues is particularly focused on the psychological aspects. Same for Resurrection to name but two of his novels.
I do agree Dostoyevsky went way more into the psyche of his characters and nowhere near as deep on the sociological aspects as Tolstoy did.
Had Freud (1907) read Darwin (1859), we would have been spared 120 years of psychoanalysis confabulation
peterson is totally right, and Dosoevsky's literature is reflected in modern discrepancy theory of incentive, where uncertainty motivates, see the work of affective neuroscientist Kent Berridge, all of his work is available for free on his lab site.
to all that are young and finding to read difficult start with Salingers Book Catcher in the Rye, its a good start... you will feel recognized.
Where's the mention to the original video?
All types of utopias come to a diversive end because, eventually, a few of the collective will start to imagine they are doing more work or getting less of the proceeds from the enterprise.
Jesus, Yaweh, holy spirt (my god and trinity) Doestoyesky, CS Lewis, Tolkien my literature gods. So deep and beautiful. Such awesome christian authors. I have had everything I ever needed at times and been completely miserable, this is such truth.
A long time ago, upon waking up I would remind myself over coffee that I would have to deal with assholes and jerks, just to slacken the shock of dealing with endless idiots. I moved to the woods. Philosophy solved! I rarely enjoyed "working" a job. But I need to do something. It just needs to be my agenda. And so it is. Sometimes it's triumphant. Sometimes it sucks. Just like the rest, except way fewer assholes, Huzzah!. Good luck travelers, truth is in the moment, do something remarkable with yourselves. Make them smile when they remember you after your gone. It's all you will ever be.
The stories premise applies to today more than ever before.
Such a interesting, read written, and I believe 1864 or something like that but characters are as true as they are today
For me, the moral of the book is that humans need to embrace their irrational and emotional side in order to find true happiness and fulfillment in life.
Exactly, I don't like the take of Peterson
I read these when I was in high school, and then again in college, and again later in life. Great stuff. I hear Peterson talking about literature and think "wow, he really missed the point on that one," or even "there"s no way he read any of that." I understand Lit Crit is not his forte, but he does pretty well with Dostoevsky (at least, the Underground Man).
Until I began reading Dostoyevsky, Solzhenitsyn & Nietzsche, I never realised what an ignorant bastard I truly was.
There are lots of people similar to the one in 'Notes from Underground"
I have little chances to read books. So, I didn't cry when I had big accidents and must be literally laid. I just grabbed Dostos' online. Thanks to Project Gutenberg who provides valuable books.
How similar is this to The Fall by Camus
Love that book
I read it as 22yr old law student and it destroyed me to a level the effects of which I would hence recommend nobody to read this book it's scary.
I recommend you read one book, cover to cover, soon: the Malius Malificarum
But I don’t expect anyone will.
Dostoyevsky is the work of a resentful and joyless man.
We can include Dostoevsky's work in the examples of literature, that we hold highest theme. For sure! But greatest novel ever? Now. We are forgetting one of destroyer, skis, compatriots from a later generation, Vladimir Nabokov. He wrote the greatest novels ever written in English, *Pale Fire.*
Finally something I can agree with JP about: great literature.😮
That’s interesting because many of his views are aligned with the Dostoyevskian ideas he is presenting in this lecture. He sees the complexity in a situation where others see simple dichotomies.
Often, I see people argue that the major difference between Dostoevsky and Tolstoy is that Dostoevsky is more psychological, while Tolstoy is more sociological. While to some degree, this interpretation has some merit, it grossly simplifies the complexity of the two thinkers.
Both Dostoevsky and Tolstoy share psychological and sociological elements within their works. The only work that Dostoevsky wrote that was solely psychological was "Notes from the Underground Man." The rest of his works have an even mix of sociology and psychology.
Most of Dostoevsky's works have a political undertone, and politics in nature is sociological. In political philosophy, you are looking at social/societal relationships.
Tolstoy, on the other hand, is explicitly political. This is why he is often interpreted as being sociological. But then you take a look at his work, "the Death of Ivan Ilyich," which is purely psychological and existential.
Tolstoy, like Dostoevsky, is a complex mixture of existentialism, psychology, sociology, and political philosophy. To oversimplify them in such a way misrepresents them and spreads this false perception to newcomers of their works.
Also, if you guys are interested in getting into more of the philosophy side of Dostoevsky and Tolstoy, then check out Lev Shestov's great double book "The Good in the Teaching of Tolstoy and Nietzsche: Philosophy and Preaching," and "Dostoevsky and Nietzsche: The Philosophy of Tragedy."
❤
Under His Political Beliefs from Wikipedia it says of Dostoevsky-
''In his incomplete article "Socialism and Christianity", Dostoevsky claimed that civilisation ("the second stage in human history") had become degraded, and that it was moving towards liberalism and losing its faith in God. He asserted that the traditional concept of Christianity should be recovered. He thought that contemporary western Europe had "rejected the single formula for their salvation that came from God and was proclaimed through revelation, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself', and replaced it with practical conclusions such as, 'Chacun pour soi et Dieu pour tous' [Every man for himself and God for all], or "scientific" slogans like 'the struggle for survival.'"[126] He considered this crisis to be the consequence of the collision between communal and individual interests, brought about by a decline in religious and moral principles."
I agree!
What an awesome teacher! More like him would've minimize the absurdity that we are now living through with "woke."
Wake up
Always a dim wit who has so little thought as to throw "woke" into a discussion that has no relevance
Grow tf up!
I think the doctor made a mistake when he said Nietzsche at the very end.. instead of Dostoevsky. There is a fantastic reader of notes from the underground on CZcams.. check it out.. The man sounds so cantankerous that you think he was created for this role.
Gosh!
There are a a multitude of ways people can be divided, one is are you a Dostoevsky guy or a Tolstoy guy - both writers ✍️ from you know where (it’s a system CZcams commentators would only want to admire from afar). One writer takes on a fellow who killed this powerless elderly woman and seeks redemption, and is used today by Russia as a symbol for their imperial “splendor.” Today, Fyodor would surely take on the plight of the school 🏫 shooter and Peterson would worship at that alter (he has a thing for those incels after all). Peterson is a Dostoevsky man through and through - and Jordan’s speeches and interviews are complete with Putin and Dugin adulation. Dostoevsky is surely one of the Giants, but Tolstoy wrote about a much more complex historical event - the invasion of 1812 - and created some to the truly great characters in literature whose names you might actually remember - I would say Pierre and Andrei (just try to recall the protagonist in Crime & Punishment, or the inspector). I would attribute this to Tolstoy’s dedication to Scripture and rejection of His Government as well of their branch of Orthodoxy. Don’t neglect Dostoevsky but better to he a Tolstoy man, it’s quite the test of character.
Hard to figure it out for one reason of not giving credit to the infants if not a two year old. I took off on our little bike that was shared with my older brother. I decided to take this long straigt road out of the town. Near the end of towns boundary was this two year old kid who constantly rubbed his right eye with his right hand as if crying. Immediately I understood that he was lost. I kept asking him questions to which he kept answering with a nod. Eventually to a sugestion that I help him find his home by giving him a ride on the steeing bar carfully dwelling him between my two arms. I must have spent near two hours. Eventually I ended near my place seeking a brake. For some reason or other he must have given me an indication that he played me on. Instantly I felt to beat him up. And then another horrid thought swept over my head, if I beat him up than I would have to kill him so he would not tell on me. There and then I ponder my dillema for a solution. Perhaps relizing that the road was on a slight incline downhiil I took him back to a spot where I picked him up. There was no mother or anyone else looking for him. Moral of the story to it is that milions if not billions of ordinary folks are taken for a 'ride' of one sort or the other well aware but resigned by their possition to not to stir the 's- - t'.
This simply proves once again, that it is not earthly possession-which for all intents and purposes include accomplishments and in general any factor that is not intrinsic-that make one happy, that make one content. To be "happy", is to not want.
On another note, true happiness, the joy you feel, what people really, actually want, and not simply peace of the soul, requires, no, it even necessitates pain. It is always in contrast to pain, discomfort and hardship that joy, bliss and pride emerges.
Eudaimonia is not your brain releasing any chemicals, to give you that raw and visceral feeling of joy, it is rather a way of thinking that does not require that feeling of joy to be content-to be happy.
It is therefore a utopian thought, that a populace could be organised harmonically under any system. To not want is antithetic to the human condition and it is by that exact reason, that no system of governance, be it capitalism, communism or any other such, may exist without strife, chaos and evil which are obviously not mutually exclusive with peace, order and good.
"Merely providing economic security would be sufficient" My family unfortunately shares this kind of idealogy. No wonder why conflicts are so common and nurturing the emotional and psychological aspects is so underwhelming
The greatest novel ever written is el quijote, by Miguel de cervantes.
I was a piano key but the hammer I was connected to was striking an out of tune wire. They thought that by bringing their hand down harder upon me I would stop making a false note. All the pianists, guards; professors, bosses, wanna be cops and criminals never thought to tune the instrument because they were themselves were the piano tuners who couldn't admit they were tone deaf. They don't strike me anymore and I'm quite happy to be left out of their concerto of cacophony (or caca-phony).
It wasn't very long ago that he was telling us that the Brothers Karamazov was the greatest novel ever written. It's not unreasonable to say that neither of them make the best novels written by Dostoyevsky. I wonder what he'll say when he gets round to reading Proust, or Tolstoy or Nabokov, or Gogol, or Joyce, or ...
All of this is true. But premised on a full stomach. If you are hungry, happiness is a plate of food, period. As Peterson has said, you cannot argue with hunger, pain, fear and heartache. So don't. It changes the way you look on surfeit, easy living, abundant leisure. Eaten with humility, you will not despise bread, let alone cake.
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all.
Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Ecclesiastes 9:3
IMHO, "Kill Jesus: The Shocking Return of the Chosen One" is the greatest novel.
The film made with this book by far better than the book.