On Electrostats: Some Things I've Learned About Electrostatic Headphones
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2022
- Thanks to Head-Fi user sa11297 for loaning ALL this gear!
Audeze CRBN: www.audeze.com/products/crbn
Stax SR-009: www.headamp.com/products/stax...
Stax SR-009s: staxaudio.com/earspeaker/sr-009s
Mjolnir Carbon: mjolnir-audio.com/products/
Channel Intro: • Channel Introduction
My Hearing Quirks: • WaveTheory's Hearing Q...
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
I have a theory on why dynamic drivers sound more real and life like then electrostatic... It is not because they sound like real instruments, but because we are used to them. 99.9% of all music we hear is through dynamic drivers. Even if you go to a live concert: chances are that concert uses speakers to amplify sound: you hear dynamic drivers... - If electrostatic technology would be ever present and all over the place: we would think that sound is "natural"... That said: it is valid to have a taste for this or that technology... Personally i am huge fan of electrostatic sound... it is kind of like having a taste for sushi - a less common but amazing flavor.
I agree
Not being an audiophile in the slightest (and not liking the sushi in the slightest) I agree with your point.
It's very much impossible to be objective on these things, or any thing really.
I think you’re onto something. Closeup live concerts without amplification sounds more to estat sound to me also
This is the main argument: We're just sooo used to them - and as a technology they're "solved" in most ways.
For me electrostatic from non oversampling multibit dac with tube output sound real and life like.
Great explication of how electrostatic earspeakers work, hope you get to try the real stax sound Lambda series, like the L700mk2.
I agree great review.
I would also like to add that they have a tendency of being a tiny bit jumpy in detail, not fully rendering it so it is fully settled with enough weight. Of course the limited amplification options probably makes them sound worse than they really are.
Hope you'll have the chance to try the new Stax flagship, the SR-X9000, and share your impressions when it will be more available.
I’ve experimented with the ear-speaker & speaker. It’s a very eye opening endeavor, that & source/amplifier.
What I’ve come to realize is, solely ear-speaker is very limiting by itself : you have to add layers/dimensions & allow them to gel.
There was implementation of this concept in years past; however, I’ve fallen out of experimentation due to living arrangement limitations.
If you have the arrangements, space & components, it’s a worthwhile endeavor.
No Dan clark electrostat?
Thanks. I was really looking forward to this. You mentioned some planars match these electrostatics in speed. Which ones? I’m looking for the fastest headphone. I have Utopia and Mysphere which are pretty fast but I know there is faster. What do you recommend. Thanks
Abyss 1266 phi tc , Susvara , LCD 5
@@x32i77
What about the Diana phi? I can’t imagine putting the TC on my head lol. Thanks.
@@halimj7 yeah the Diana TC is as fast as abyss 1266 Phi TC
@@x32i77
Thanks
@@x32i77 Whoop there it is.....👍
Hmm.. interesting introduction video on your first impressions of electrostatics. While I am glad to hear your opinion (and happily look forward to hearing more) I will respectfully disagree about the timbre issue. Then again I am using a different amp also made by mjolnir audio called the novem which a tube amp. Estats will definitely let you hear the small changes in sound as a result of changing amps and dacs so impressions will sometimes significantly vary between listeners.
Actually for me anyway, planars have been the most difficult to enjoy when compared to dynamics and estats. Planars to me are too focused on controlling every aspect in any given recording at least from the ones I've heard which are the hifiman he6se, lcd 4, solitare p-se. Listening to them sounds like music being played in a lab and never truly comes across as natural, but we all hear things differently. Over time I have gotten used to my planars and started appreciating them in my efforts to acclimate to their uniqueness (still prefer dynamics and estats though). While I am also aware people will recommend susvara if I have an issue with them not sounding natural and I would like to buy and hear a susvara someday, it will have to wait a little longer because I will be putting down money soon for the stax x9000 since I prefer estats.
Again I am very happy, excited, and personally grateful your talking about them at all and look forward to what more you have to say as estats are not commonly talked about on places like youtube.
Hi. Thanks for the well-thought-out response. I respect your disagreement. I certainly will give no one grief for liking what estats do, they certainly have their strengths. Thanks for expressing an opposing view as you have; is a good model for others to follow. And I'm sure there's a combo of estat headset and amp/energizer out there that will bring timbral excellence.
@@wavetheorysound thanks for the reply. Discourse on planars vs estats can be a sensitive topic to some folks online. Some complain about estats being shouty, but others say planars are artificial. Since not all of us are gonna have a lot of money to throw around and try this stuff, your videos will be a helpful reference. Even if me or someone else might not agree with what your next videos might have to say, as a viewer I can discern what you say and decide what qualities I'm looking for in my own future purchases. Some qualities you might prefer over other qualities in a particular headphone might be of an opposite priority to me or others. Unfortunately not everyone is gonna see things with an open mind. I hope the comments that will appear in your future videos will be civil and productive. Keep up the awesome work!
@@Omega-hn3py Planars like any type of gear are a very mixed bag and can sound very very different to each other, especilly in lowfi and midfi field and especially if you come from a higher tier stack in a tech that is generally more proficient.
If you want to have a proper comparison you need to check out Susvara LCD5 and 1266TC from a good tube amp or a really good SS. X9000 from a good tube energizer vs Susvara from something like WA33 / Ferrum stack should be a good comparison to check the best sides of both.
Would like you see your review on ZMF Vérité
I own the Verite open and have found it is very good on a ss amp, but remarkable when paired with a tube amp. My take - if you aren’t going to use it with a OTL tube amp there might be better options out there.
Do you have any thoughts on the bravura?
I've reached out to Warwick and heard nothing back.
I would say otherwise about timbre. They .. lack timbre. Dynamic drivers have a timbre and decay... a grainy timbre, some have long decay like Philips headphones (they sound very wet and grainy), some have short decays (like HD800, ADX5000, Utopia). E-stats don't have grain. It's just the purest sound. E-stats sound too dry, sound has no echo so it's unnatural to hear sound without echo, without decay. It's sounds too clean. Sometimes you might prefer this type of sound, sometimes it doesn't work.
E-stats having so fast transients, it creates timbre for each instrument, so you can't say "the headphone" has a timbre, the instrument has a timbre.
Going from L700+Chord Hugo 2 DAC to HD800+Chord Hugo 2, the HD800 sounds so slow and the sounds blend together.
A downside of L700 is that it's fatiguing, I guess because 10khz+ is too boosted. HD800 is not fatiguing even if it's bright.
L700 being extremely dry, some short sounds (small sounds that play for a very short amount of time, these sounds feel like sharp needles touching my eardrum. These type of small sounds are annoying. Because... I would assume treble have dynamic range, it doesn't play bright like dynamic drivers. E-stats show a greater difference of amplitudes even on treble.
Does ANYONE OUT THERE know ANYTHING about Verisonix wired headphones????
I type in the name and NOTHING comes up as far as a review for them. I'm pulling my hair out because, these are ACTUALLY a good set of headphones (not a lot of Bass) but, I made up the difference w/ a booster app. CAN ANYONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU GUIDE ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION???
The term “electrostatic” is really a misnomer. The more accurate term is dialectic field, because it’s using a change in voltage potential instead of a current to drive the headphone.
"Electrostatic" refers to the membrane carrying a constant electric charge, thus being "electrically static" or electrostatic for short. The membrane then moves by varying the electric potentials on the stators to either side of the membrane. Thus, the membrane motion is created by fluctuating electric fields whereas orthodynamic drivers (meaning classic dynamic drivers and planar magnetics) use a varying current to create a magnetic field that is either in agreement with or in opposition to the magnetic field of the permanent magnet(s) of the drivers. Also, in all my years studying and teaching physics, I've never heard "voltage potential." Voltage is the difference in electric potential energy per unit charge. Sounds like a couple of definitions getting mashed together there.
@@wavetheorysound Voltage is essentially a potential current in the form of a longitudinal standing wave between two capacitor plates, where as electrical current is a compound phenomena of a sinusoidal transverse EM wave, and its secondary effect of a magnetic field, which is 90 degrees offset from the direction of current flow. So there is really no current and no magnetic field at all when there is a maximum voltage potential, because the energy is being stored in a longitudinal standing wave. However, when that standing wave is discharged, the standing wave collapses and a transverse wave of current and a magnetic field is formed. This back and forth between a voltage potential and a current/magnetic field happens at the frequency of the signal, which in the US is 60hertz or 60,000 times per second for a standard wall outlet. As for the membrane, it is a dialectic membrane in a ‘electrostatic’ headphone, whereas in a planar headphone you have a conductive surface trace which conducts current and creates a magnetic field which then either attracts the surface or repulses the surface towards or away from the fixed permanent magnet array. In a planar it is using a magnetic field of the diaphragm to move the driver, whereas in an ‘electrostat’ the membrane is a dialectic material and uses a varying voltage potential instead of a magnetic field. That’s why calling it an ‘electrostat’ is a misnomer, because really its employing a changing voltage potential and not a current with magnetic field to move the diaphragm. I hope that makes sense.
I think to get the natural timber should a step back to be done. Try to find a Lamda Nova Signature or Omega 007 mk1, and even mk2. These three have really natural timber and they trade it for a bit less speed and resolution but replay so naturally that you will accept that. And the LNS will give you bass like no other Stax.
That's so true, its Scarry at night listening to stax, sometimes i think someone is right next to me...out of all 4 stax i have the oldest ones, SR lambda and signature pro have the best timbre....i keep telling people not everything new is always better, the older stax gear has some hidden gems and absolute bargains you just got to look harder...
@@chefsteve8381 yeee, man, glad you think so. And this is confirmed also by music lovers that we trade headphones on loan.
@@nikolaygramchev i remember years ago showing a friend of my father's my stax, he was a classical music lover he sat in my chair for 4 hours and would not move, the next day he was a stax owner...
@@chefsteve8381 and I started with electrostatics with a Nectar Pollinator and a sr-005 and said to myself this a great technology. And started reading how to upgrade. I got the LSN + srm-003 for less $500 (still cannot believe it) and later did A-B-C listening b/n 007 mk1 and mk2 and 009s, and picked up the 007 mk2. Now I am waiting for a srm-007t modified by spitzer.
@@nikolaygramchev sounds awesome, still got my original SR lambda from 40 years ago and people say stax aren't built well, ha...
Explaining those technologies to normal people is a pain^^ Just think of all the simplifications we have to make, or are common in speech. In reality of course electrostatic headphones are magnetic (moving charges), electrets are electrostats, and planar magnetic headphones are dynamic^^ Just think of all the smoking heads if one would have the audacity to explain people how things really are :P
"In reality of course electrostatic headphones are magnetic"
Maybe in your reality, but sorry to tell you, electrostatic speakers contain no magnets and there is absolutely nothing magnetic going on in the drive physics. It is simply charge attraction/repulsion by a dynamic differential charge, the music signal, on the plates driving the externally dc biased constant charge diaphragm spaced and sandwiched between them.
The only difference between an electrostatic and an electret is that the charge is built into the electret diaphragm instead of biasing the diaphragm from an external power supply. The physics of the diaphragm motion is exactly the same as an electrostatic.
Go look up the rule of thumb FBI (mnemonics) right hand rule and tell me how you think those vectors are operating in an electrostatic. Good luck even finding the B portion of that FBI.
@@MrJdsenior I see you are not familiar with the Lorenz Force Law.
a good allrounder is the Sonoma acoustic bravura headphone system . Really recommend it 🙂👍
And if you wanna be done with this rabbit hole hobby then get simply the aperio system and live in peace
If only estats could do bass. Estat bass is like getting punched in the face by a declawed kitten.
Some electrostatics do bass better than planars, you don't need to belive me, just wait for the forthcoming reviews or better still go hear some for yourself...gee old wives tales...
Try the 007mk1 or mk2
Z reviews is bad for the brain.
If you ever get an opportunity, listen to the Auzeze CRBN. Actually this deepest, most accurate bass I've experienced. And this is from a precious owner of Abyss 1266 Phi TC.
Estat + subwoofer.. maybe the brain melting combo?
Get a Sennheiser HE1 and be done with it... lol
"The sound is fast"... Damn... Imagine not knowing anything about how sound in minimum phase devices actually work :\
Educate yourself before spouting rubbish :)
By all means, explain buddy.
By "fast" we don't mean literally fast, just a perception that is caused by having no ringing or decay thanks to the air itself being the largest damping factor for the ultralight diaphragm. The air it's displacing ends up weighing more than the diaphragm per unit area. That's why these are so dry, fast, and ethereal, so people say. They're by far the best audio reproduction device possible given real world material limitations.
I like your videos but you are way of off in your explication of sound physics related to sound experience.. you need to research quite a lot more to understand what you are talking about