Linus is in Shock
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 09. 2023
- Apple officially switches to USB C after a ruling by the EU.
Watch the full WAN Show: • Unity? More Like Divor...
► GET MERCH: lttstore.com
► LTX 2023 TICKETS AVAILABLE NOW: lmg.gg/ltx23
► GET EXCLUSIVE CONTENT ON FLOATPLANE: lmg.gg/lttfloatplane
► SPONSORS, AFFILIATES, AND PARTNERS: lmg.gg/partners
► OUR WAN PODCAST GEAR: lmg.gg/wanset
FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL
---------------------------------------------------
Twitter: / linustech
Facebook: / linustech
Instagram: / linustech
TikTok: / linustech
TikTok (LMG Clips): www.tiktok.com/@_lmgclips_
Twitch: / linustech - Věda a technologie
The EU didn’t say that USB-C must be the standard. They just said that there has to be a standard. If something better than USB-C comes along, we can switch.
if there's a justification why it's better than usb-c I guess they would be allowed to make a seperate unique adapter?
Pretty sure it said the industry people are supposed to review it every 5 years and update their standard every 5 years.
Linus' understanding of the EU and how it operates is very flawed. He thinks this was not democratic, even though the bill was voted on by the European Parliament which represents the second-largest democratic electorate in the world (400 million eligible voters). He worries about lobbying, even though that's practically only an American thing. If you try to influence politics with money in Europe, you go to jail, as you should in any decently run democratic system.
*EDIT* - To answer all those telling me "lobbying exists in Europe as well", let me be clearer. Lobbying in Europe is extremely regulated and very transparent. It is hardly run by big money, but rather by strong interest groups such as the "farmers' lobby" or labor unions. In Europe you won't find Super PACs or multi-billion dollar corporations throwing money at a favorable candidate. Somewhere along the way, we figured out that allowing politicians to be bribed would be the perfect recipe for an oligarchy. I guess America didn't get the memo.
But what is the incentive to make a new conector if you cannot use in Europe, it's not like a new connector will start from nothing as great without adoption, USB-C is only the chosen one because it has massive adoption... the new legislation will be really bad for any better standard to be adopted in the future
I really hate and some dumb bureaucrat that does not understand tech thinks they could solve things with a pen, this is just bad for innovation and I think people would agree if wasn't Apple, but being against Apple is popular so people applaud things that on the longer run will be bad for everyone
Yes but how is a consensus made about such new standard? Will lawmakers take meetings with every single tech startup?
Before there was a government mandated standard the “standard” was set by which type was most popular with companies and consumers. While once very fragmented everyone began to make a consensus on their own as the phones that came out with a certain connector were being bought the most (excluding Apple)
Yes the law technically allows for new standards but without a market driven standard how is this new standard decided and what incentive do companies have to come up with a better standard if they’re not sure it can be brought to market immediately waiting for approval (or rejection) by a body of lawmakers?
@@jarjarbinks6018 You don't understand how standardization works in europe. The standardazition bodies have committees that are made up of the industry experts. So the industry experts (people WORKING for the industry) decide what the next best standard should be. No politicians involved.
Some cursory reading reveals that USB-C is not the focus of the legislation. The legislation requires electronics to use a common standard connector. It does NOT require the connector to be USB-C. If a new, better standard comes along, then that's what they'll start using.
If there's no ability or incentive to add them on your devices, who's going to develop them? The USB consortium, perhaps, but does that lock us into USB forever?
@@ollienx USB-IF, same as they did with USB-C.
But newer and better standard could be appearing every year. What's then?
@@ollienx incentive always used to be to move forward because old technology is unable to keep up. But lately incentive to milk customers is getting more important than technology advancement and nothing except big customer and cultural change will change that. As long as ppl will fight each other instead of fighting companies that does this nothing will change.
How? Does everyone have to agree on a change at once now? Is innovation/experimentation on connectors impossible now?
Didn't the writers do ANY research on the EU law? It's not forever, it will be regularly re-evaluated, and if manufacturers can agree on a standard, they can switch to it. If a connector has a clear advantage, it can be used, but it has to deliver at least the same performance as the currently set standard. And it's in the hands of manufacturers to agree on a new standard.
Also, how can you claim it was undemocratic if it was passed by elected government bodies? That doesn't make any sense. Surprisingly bad take. How is this not straight-up misinformation?
Oh, it just is outright misinformation. The charger law is IMO actually very well written and makes provisions for timely updates should they become necessary.
"EU = undemocratic" is just straight up the most common talking point of right wing populists. It's true that only the European Parliament is directly elected by citizens, and currently only the European Commission can introduce new legislation. That's bad, but the power of Parliament has grown considerably over the decades, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is remedied at some point in the future. However, even now all legislation must go through Parliament, and Parliament can reject the make up of a new Commission. The make up of the Commission is determined by the democratically elected governments of the member states.
It's complicated, hence why right wingers can easily BS "less informed" people, but everyone is either directly or indirectly elected democratically, and there's checks and balances.
True
North Americans have no idea how the eu works youre right
The problem is your idea relies on manufacturers agreeing. It's not something they usually like to do. EU forcing shit like this is dumb and anti competition.
@@MrHennoGarvie they already did. Twice. Only Apple noped out, and that's how we got to this point.
It was technically democratic since the European parliament voted on the bill. The European parliament is the only branch of the EU directly elected by EU citizens. So even though it was not a referendum, some kind of democratic process still went on. On the port side I think It'll be pretty easy for them to change the law to new connectors in the future.
Linus doesn’t actually know how a representative democracy works
@@GermanZindro*Americans
"Americans" ☕
Dude just leave technological innovation to democracy. EU is a joke
@@sjoerdtheemperor5229he's Canadian tho
Apple had to comply with EU because they don't want to lose that market share there. Apple is 2nd in market share in EU at 23%. Samsung is 1st with 29%, but is declining. Xiaomi is 3rd with 20% share, but increasing 33%, and Oppo was 4th.
apple was already going to switch over to usb c. my theory is the pro model was going to get usb c this year no matter what and that was decided 5 years ago during initial product planning. This can be seen by the inclusion of a usb 3 controller in the a17 chip that has been in development for 4-5 years. the base i think was going to stick with lightning for one more year as it doesn't have a usb 3 controller running on the a16 bionic. the base iphone would then get usbc next year when it received the a17. no matter what iphone was going usb c so i dont really understand why the eu got involved. it can also be seen through the last 6 years as apple transitioned everything else to usb c. this ensured that transition of their most popular product would have zero issues and a host of accessories already available day one. really smart business wise to transition everything else before their most popular product.
@@zackmandarino1021The reason they couldn't make it a pro feature is because that would suggest that USB-C is superior to their own standard and regardless of wether that's true or not, Apple admitting that something they make is inferior is not happening.
@@helgeschneider4417 what are you talking about apple provided almost 25% of the engineers during development of usb c. They were the first to transition to it on laptops and slowly made every product usb c this was the last product to make the switch they knew lightning was done and started planning the switch over half a decade ago for the iPhone and 10 years ago for the MacBooks. They were not forced to switch by any means it was in their product planning and development long before the eu got annoyed of the time it was taking to make the transition. Also transitioning all their products before their most popular product ensures a smooth transition over unlike the transition from 30 pin to lightning that pissed tons off by making everyone’s accessories useless over night.
!n the EU devices have to stop shipping with chargers and cables, and to make that more seemless, they standardized what connection is used, so when you buy a new device, it will work on the same charger and cable the old device had. It's all about reducing E-Waste. But I suppose in some sense since a lot of Apple stuff ends up as e-waste, it could be about market share? But that's stretching it a bit.
@@delscoville Apple's market share in the EU was around $95 BILLION last year, I think that's incentive enough to make a simple change in plug type.
The problem is that these companies take way to long to agree on a standard. At some point the Government should step in and make them figure it out. This legislation is worded in such a way to allow them to do that or face them stepping in to do it for them. Maybe next time they will not be so obstinate and do the right thing.
Because gonerments are always fast moving and reactive, oh wait, its actually the private companies (the ones banned from innovation) who innovate.
Consortiums for standards are not inherently bad, we wouldn't have a number of useful things if groups of experts in their field didn't make these sorts of group decisions. If it was a single company I'd be more concerned, but we've had USB-A since 1996, WIFI since 1997, HDMI since 2001, and many more things we just take for granted.
The law only enforces the use of a standard. Right now, that is USB-C. But nobody forbids the use of any other connector, just that one of them that can be used for charging has to be USB-C, at the moment. So if laptops, tablets and other devices that can easily house the next gen standard in addition, move to something else, and that becomes a default, that can become the new requirement. Also, it has already been proven with a couple devices that you can have more than just one connector on a phone. So the talk about being stuck with USB-C for eternity is just not true. Someone just has to come up with something else, and it needs to have broad adoption.
Sounds like a stupid catch 22. EU enforces only one standard. Anyone can make their own standard if it becomes popular, but a competing standard can't be popular because it's not USB-C. Yes, laptops are an exception, but that's because they can get away with having multiple connectors on a single device.
@@patx35 this makes no sense. Of course a competing standard can become the new default, it just needs to be better than charging via USB C. And any device that's affected by the law can get away with multiple connectors, OEMs just need to be willing to do it. And especially on phones the physical connector isn't that relevant. Apple just decided that they had to make Lightning the biggest pain because there was no reliable fast way to get their giant video files off their phones as Lightning would most likely never have been able to carry USB 3 speeds and Wireless is notoriously unreliable. So they are actually the reason themselves iPhones need USB C to enable at least USB 3.0 speeds. But if they actually enabled reverse Qi Charging for other devices - and higher charging speeds -, Qi would be more than enough for charging, you could just ignore the physical connector.
@@patx35 You've kind of hit the point of the legislation and missed it at the same time. The idea is for the EU to simply operate a standards agency that's about safety and net zero targets. But a massive, massive part of waste reduction needs to be manufacturers talking to each other and away from this American led "mine, mine, mine" about IPs. Come up with a fantastic new connection protocol? Patent it, tell your competitors about it, weigh it up and then approach the standards people together.
So much environmental waste comes from companies doing things their own way instead of adopting common standards as a consensus. You can easily see this in how European Car companies work, most of them now own each other, and there are huge amounts of transferable hardware between brands due to standardised manufacturing. That means less tooling, more refined production processes and less waste.
Not to mention that even if USB-C gets replaced Legacy support will still be important for the next couple of years.
It is democratic the Europeans elected their leaders to make laws
If we all elected a king that ruled over us for all his life and whichever laws he wanted he could pass would that be democratic? Is Iran a democratic nation? Is North Korea? Is Guevara's Cuba? Nazi Germany?
That's not how democracy works there are other things that makes democracy...
Incorrect. The European Parliament (voted for by the EU citizens) don't make the laws. This is the task of the European Commission; which IS NOT elected by the citizens. Which means that there is no direct democration in the EU.
@@SanderEvers and who put together the commission? So again, they voted for this.
@@creaturecore13 The commission is voted for by NGOs. Again, the citizens vote for the parliament. And the parliament votes for the legislation created by the commission. This very simple to allow a small group of people (commission) to determine the direction the EU goes.
And how I know all of this? I am a citizen of the EU / Netherlands. And once every 4 years there is an election for the European Parliament.
@@SanderEvers You're right, but the commission merely suggests laws, the parliament votes on them and passes back corrections or changes if needed. Then the Council of the European Union gets to take a look as well when the parliament has approved it, and it can then deny or pass the law. If they deny it, they merely send it back to the parliament for further review.
Ultimately, the possibility that a law gets created that benefits no one is very small, and the chance that any of of these institutions gets to corrupt the system is also miniscule due to the several layers.
Oh and also: the parliament elections are not ever 4 but every 5 years
The iPads with USB3 support, like the Mini 6 with the A15, actually use PCIe controllers for USB3 support - it isn't on the silicon. In an iPhone where this feature is presumably less of a big deal & space is more constrained within the device, it makes sense to omit such an extra.
S23 has usb c 3.2. It's not a space issue.
@@FireWyvern870but doesnt the s23 silicon has support in the chip? This is the problem of Iphone 15 with A16
@@FireWyvern870It's not a space issue IF the chip in question already supports those speeds. If not then you have to rely on something else to achieve it, i.e. PCIe controllers elsewhere on the board, which take up more space.
@@FireWyvern870S23 USB 3.2 support comes from the SOC
Snapdragon ftw.
As others pointed out, there's no need to be USB-C, also the law says this decision can be revised after a few years and the industry can choose a new standard.
That being said a good example of bad connectors becoming standard is in the automotive industry, CCS1 and CCS2 are both terrible connectors.
CCS2 is the only EV cable that can suit the whole world? The tesla connecter cant do 3 phase nor can CCS1.
EU is smart enough to plan a way forward when USB-D is released, if or when the standard is surplus to requirements, either that or near field wireless will be ever superior.
I think you mean usb-c 5 6x2 gen 2.4 version 3
@@oKazaryo this comment is hilarious and unfortunately probably true
haha, if public opinion puts pressure on something else they will complety forget about it and go for the 'new woke' votes. don't fool yourself
It was indeed democratic. The bill was passed through the EU parliament and EU Council. Both of which contain either representatives who were elected in the EU-wide parliamentary election or are - as the heads of democratic states - elected by the people of the individual member states. The process through which this bill was passed is therefore democratic. If you don't call that democratic, then everything that is not passed through a referendum can be called "undemocratic".
I'm glad Luke mentioned the tactile feel of lightning. That is my least favorite thing about USB-C. I have several headphones with C and on all of them I use magnetic USB cables because I don't want to plug and unplug the cable because it just feels bad to use. Also I have concerns about USB-C on a phone. Obviously it's been used for a while and hasn't been a problem, but I've seen several times that pocket lint has built up in the bottom of a lightning port and prevented the full insertion of the plug. Fairly easy to get into the port with a toothpick and scrape out the bottom of the port. With the center plug in the USB-C port, that would be hard to get in there and clean out. Maybe that center section prevents pocket lint from getting into the port and it isn't an issue, but I don't know how I would clean a C port should it become an issue a few years down the road.
I understand the need for a standard power plug, and usb 3 speeds are a welcome addition, but I wish the iPhones also had the magsafe connector from Apple Laptops for charging the phone. C on the top or side for data and power and then magsafe on the bottom for normal charging. It would meet the EU regulations and would provide an actual improvement to the way it works.
it's not difficult to clean a usb-c port in fact no harder than a fruit based lightning port
"should we let these democratically elected institutions decide these things instead of corporations? was there ever a referendum on this?" is an insane take
That was such a goofy take. That's literally how democracy works, you can't have a referendum for every single decision, especially not for things as small what charger your phone uses.
True
@@rodaspi If they tried we would still be using a differnt cable for each version of each brand of phone like it used to be. Because of lobbying
@@WebToolkityes because that's what happened until now?
yeah Linus took an L on this one, he should've looked up how the EU makes decisions and how those people get in those positions
100% agree with L&L on when Lightning came out was excellent in comparison to the former Phone Chargers including Apples (whatever it was called),MicroUSB etc it was SO much better like god damn, sure NOW? Its no longer good because its had 0 innovation but when it came out? Revolutionary item.
Yes.. Which is exactly what they said.
It's baffling to me that they kept Lightning even though they co-developed USB-C ...
@@xvsunThe primary reason is MFI licensing cash. The other reason is MFI licensing cash.
I somewhat agree, but people get the timeline a bit wrong. USB-C was actually announced in the same year as the lightning connector came out and the specification was completely finished and ready to be used in 2014. That it still took almost 10 years and government pressure for apple to switch to it is inexcusable.
You scimmed past the part where lightning charging ports will frequently be the first part to stop working on your phone. Having your charging port be the first thing to malfunction is insanity
Interesting, I’ve never had a port fail nor seen anyone have a port fail. However, I have seen cables break or fail really quickly, all the time, including those made by Apple. I’ve constantly made the joke that that’s where Apple makes it’s money, on cables and connectors.
I personally had a spotty port on my last iphone. Have also recently witnessed 3 seperate people I know have the same issue. Maybe it was a string of bad luck but they were all different models with the same issue. I don't doubt they make a killing on cables and dongles though my goodness lol@@DavidRomigJr
Usb c insertion feel is cable quality dependant, not the phone. I have some cables that click beautifully in and done others that fall off without my intervention
The fact you didn't lay into Apple over the USB2.0 speeds on the basic 15s is honestly a pleasant testament to the newfound fact-checking you've got as a priority. I for one, appreciate that.
Oh yes poor Apple being unable to provide a feature because a hardware component they designed is unable to rather than committing to reworking the chip or using a lower-tier version of the Pro chip in the smaller SKUs.
If only there was a way to avoid nudging people to pay up for the upgrades...
USB2 was embarrassing on Lightning already and they didn't need to wait for USB C to become a mandated port to get with the times at all. I too appreciate that they mention that the chip doesn't provide another way, but focusing on the technical background without roasting Apple's decision to use it unchanged or at all is disingenius.
@@AlexChama If it's so easy then you can solder a USB3 chip on yourself. Please go ahead and find out the hard way.
Who’s being disingenuous. Linus is a capitalist, he understands the investment that would have been required to destroy already fabbed product and re-engineer for a feature that a standard user probably doesn’t even care about. And if we’re truly upset by ewaste on the manufacturing end, that sounds like a lot of waste. If we didn’t live in reality, totally valid criticism.
@@fromquakeexcept they already produced ipad mini with a15 bionic with 3.1 with 5gb transfer speed.. and a16 doesnt have it 🤔
@@MO-nj7tjyeah that was the a15 not the a16. People wouldn't be happy if they got an a15 in their new iPhone. Personally the a16 was the right call for longer support than a feature MOST people don't care about. I am not saying I am fine with usb 2 I'm saying it makes sense and is less wasteful. And itt would give their product a longer lifetime. A usb 3 controller is veery different than a usb2 and would require a redesign. However I will not defend apple if they don't include usb 3 in the iPhone 16. If that's the case there is no excuse other than being petty.
micro b was a good connector if you don't abuse your device and cables. Never had any problems with it.
Ooo those are still solid. I still use mine that i had for years now.
Micro B 3.0 is such an underrated and misunderstood connector. The whole point of the goofy port is so that it's completely backwards comparable with 2.0 accessories with zero adapters. Yes, you can just use a normal cable with a Galaxy S5.
They were not particularly sturdy or well structured. They were fairly easy to break on the device side, and frequent use was not kind to the circuit boards at all. C is a diamond by comparison. Both small and heavy duty
@@Nina-cd2eh my problem is that the latching mechanism is far worse on Type C. I have seen too many devices where brand new cables falls off the port, because the device side port is worn out. It would be so much better if USB C wasn't reversible, but used the extra space for a better latch.
@@patx35 That is the exact opposite of my experience. I've seen cables go loose and break over time but not the port. Type C has been consistently buttery smooth even on older devices, but micro has been a consistent liability for most people. And on my personal devices it has always worked like magic. Also I think suggesting a non-reversible port is just heresy. The symmetry also helps make the design stronger and helps with accidental abuse.
As much as Linus is a master-tech powerhouse he has absolutely no clue of the applied innovation's business cycle and how the execution of such decisions are driven by the regulators and certification bodies. The USB-C is not a solution meant to be implemented ''forever''.., just until a new more performant and customer focus cross-segment standard will be developed. Until than, yes USB-C is what it is and what it's should be (should've been long ago but they..).
"just until a new more performant and customer focus cross-segment standard will be developed". This does actually support linus point...No one will develop the next generation of cable, because everyone who does will run into the brick wall of "if it's not the USB-IF doing it then it's not getting adopted".
Until you can make an objective argument that some random company will spend millions in R&D to develop a new cable that is the better than USB-C but only to HOPE that the EU will choose it over the USB-IF. Then we are stuck with whatever the USB-IF makes. The successor to Type-C will be ratified by the EU not because it is more "performant and customer focused" but because there are no alternatives. And just as a reminder of the USB-IF's track record:
Type-A is the connector that is memed on for requiring 3 orientations to plug it in properly.
Type-B is nothing more than a printer port because of some weird concept the USB-IF had about separating upstream and downstream connectors
Mini-B is an awful, finicky connector
Micro-B is a even more awful connector that makes Mini-B look good
Micro-B 3.0 is something so awful that I dare you to come up with ANYTHING good that came out of this one
Type-C: Finally a objectively good connector (though in a away inspired quite a bit by lightning).
You actually want to believe that this organization who went 1/6 for connector design is going to make something better? Because if not, we really are going to stuck with Type-C "forever" sentiment. It's the crux of design by committee. It's convoluted, messy, and extremely slow to transition, where very little good comes out of it..
@@skifree0 Innovation will happen regardless when USB C speeds and power delivery aren't keeping up with the requirements of devices. Only instead of one company doing it one way and another a different way, you'll have multiple companies working together to agree upon and push for a switch to a single standard.
My biggest issue with Lightning is that the pins are on the phone side, not the cable. Because of that, over time, the phone side of the connection wears out, and eventually stops working. That’s what happened to both my 6 and my XS, both after around 4 years.
Uhhh... pins are on both sides of both connectors. The pins touching on either side is how you get an electrical connection. The only difference is that the male side is on the cable with the lightening and reversed with USB-C. In some ways lightening is better as it's simpler (the female sheath and the port are the same) and the cable is easier to replace if there's damage to the male side of the connection.
The only reason why no one supports lightening anymore is that the technology is simply out of date. If it was able to keep pace with USB-C features, it would be much more of a conversation.
And the blade inside micro usb NEVER bent or broke....
you sure the port didn't just fill up with lint, preventing the connector from going all the way in? Had that happen about every two years until I switched to wireless charging. Each time a wooden toothpick was the solution to clear out the port.
@@TheShortStory Yep, tried that
@@thewiirocks There are pins that push into the contacts of the cable. Those pins are designed to flex a bit, so that there is some pressure keeping the electrical bits connected.
What do you mean was there a referendum? Why would we need a referendum? The EU parliament, a democratically elected institution, voted on this. How could you ask if this is democratic?
You should still lay into Apple over it. Their flagship phone chip not supporting USB 3 is amateur hour, people are paying a premium price for a premium decide and they're getting budget phone features.
a lot of midrange android phones still only have usb 2.0 on a type C connector, its annoying, but honestly not that big of an issue besides some wait time when you want to save your entire camera roll to a pc
I don't have the data but I have to guess the number of people plugging in their phones into computers for data transfer is extremely marginal in 2023.
Yeah, midrange Androids. Exactly how much will the cheapest iPhone 15 be?
@@KevDawg1992 Right now? $800. Don't forget that the SE exists and was overdue to a revamp anyway. Right now those sell new for as low as $100 outright with some carriers.
@@ProfitSlim you're also locked into a contract in order to get that iPhone for $100. If you're going to use that logic for an iPhone, you need to apply that same logic to Android as well. Companies are offering phones like the Pixel 7 and S23 for free under their contracts.
My moto has usb 2.0. It's fine. But it's not a $800 phone
dont forget that usb-c is just the connector
and with thunderbolt this connector can even handle 40Gbit/s and 200W (technically) so i doubt there would be a better connector with the same form factor or even smaller.
and in case there is a better connector in the future it also isnt locked on usb c, here in europe the tech companies can actually change the standard as long as everyone adapts that new standard too, as the law was mainly about one standard to prevent trash, not "everyone has to use usb c because we think its cool." (usb c is currently just the best for small electronics)
My thing is that the iPad Mini 6 using the A15 Bionic chip has support for USB C 3.1 So unless I'm incorrect somewhere the A16 not supporting USB 3.0 is kinda moot
The iPad uses a PCIe controller for USB 3 support. So it’s not directly on the A15 chip, it’s an additional part. The A17 has the USB 3 controller directly on the chip. That’s the difference.
@@botstik3877 Although Apple does do software market segmentation. Specifically the M1 has built-in USB and Thunderbolt controller, they are enabled on the iPad pro, but the Thunderbolt controller is disabled on the Air, which only gets 10Gb USB despite using the same desktop-class SoC.
@@botstik3877 Ahhh gotcha, that makes sense why an older chipset would have it in one system and not the next. Granted , this still doesn't excuse Apple, but thank you for correcting me
@@Falza123you have a lot less room in a phone than a tablet for real estate
for 1000 dollars, they damn well should have included a usb 3 controller. are you kidding me???
I found it hilarious in the event out Apple acted like switching to USB-C was their amazing idea 😂
But they didn’t did they?
@@deckverse They did, which is what matters!
Well they needed to switch to something better either way
The iPhone XS Max had 5Gb/s speeds with the special usb c to lightning cable (with usb 3.0 speeds and the cable was thicker than normal), I saw a huge difference when syncing, but with later iPhone models they removed that capability, that’s why I think that the iPhone 15 with usb 2.0 speeds is inexcusable.
It's democratic because the people that are in the European Union parliament are voted on by each country to be there and then the laws are also voted on by the parliament to be approved or not. Also, the discussions were open including with companies like Apple.
There are some really bad takes in this. 1. They did not say USB-C is now always the connector but they said that there must be a standart that everyone uses.
2. Just because not every law is chosen by the people doesn't mean that it is not democratic. The EU has multiple internal Organisation 1 of them that voted on this is directly elected by the EU citizens and the other 2 are members of the States in the EU so also chosen democraticaly.
That is what representative democracy is for that every citizen does not have to look at every law proposed but can still have his voice be heard. U can have a problem with that and say that such a big change should be voted on by the people directly but u cannot say that the procces is not democratic!
Linus, this is stupid point. There should NOT be a referendum on connector types. The same way we didn't elect our favourite power plug. Industry operates under regulation by the government, and regulation is drafted by experts, not by common folk, guiding design to optimise for safety, reliability and other goals set by the government.
Thank you for bringing up the USB C speed and how it related to the older chip that didn't have USB 3 support. So many people jump on the bandwagon hating without doing any research on the matter.
My honest opinion: I don't care. There was already an iPad with USB 3.0 Lightning, and some iPads with older A-series processors also had USB-C 3.0. Apple decided to use last year's chip, which is not something they used to do until recently, that didn't have support for 3.0. With the amount of money Apple spends on RnD a year (somehow), they really couldn't just make another version of their new A17 Pro chip with less cores? Just an A17 Bionic? *They're already going to do that next year* so I don't see it as a limitation that there is NO WAY Apple just couldn't manage to do it this year, or at least find some way to staple support on to the A16 (A16X?) like they did with the A9 (A9X was on the iPad Pro, that supported 3.0 via lightning. If they were willing to support that on an unproven category, they could do that on their best-selling product.)
@@ArnauDisrepairapple using last years chip should be banned
When you buy a newer years phone, you know it has a better chip
Yet apple doesn't give a new chip unless you buy a pro
@@ArnauDisrepair there's no point in spending money in R&D and fabrication on something that most people don't care about or use. I don't know anyone who uses their phone and cable to transfer data. Unless you're a "pro" user, which is a very small amount, cable data speeds don't matter. That's why it's a way higher speed on the pro phones, because the select pro users would want that feature. The average consumer does not. Just like the base models don't have 120hz...99% of those users do not care nor even know/understand refresh rate.
@@Zvxers7 well you're somewhat wrong. It is a "new" and faster chip than the previous year in that phone. From the 14 to 15 it is a performance bump and technically different chip in the phone, same as the 14 Pro to 15 Pro. I understand the chip was used in a different phone, but you're getting a pro chip in the base phone...still one of the fastest chips on the market. And I hope you realize people who are buying a base model aren't buying it for speed or a better chip. We're tech people, I know why we're buying a new chip. The average consumer (90+% of people) do not even know about what chip is in their phone, what camera there is, etc. No point on developing a whole new chip for something that people aren't even going to realize or understand.
There is no reason to NOT give us a usb 3.0 chip. Simple as.
If companies can't decide on standard, then yes, governing bodies should step in. The only reason this haven't happened with these cables before now is pure profits. Check back to before screws and bolts and such were standardized, it was a complete mess, just like it have been with these cables. And yes, if something better comes along, that will take precedent and become the new standard. In my eyes, this is laws done right tbh
Did nobody notice that the a17 wasn’t called the a17 but the a17 pro. Meaning that next year the iPhone 16 may get the a17 chip instead of the a17 pro chip which doesn’t have usb 3 speeds
I think they are saving a17 for basic iPad
@@Milos596omg i world love it
As a EU citizen, I am very proud of what they did to Apple... Type C, eayser battery replacement and maybe even other app stores soon
Let me say this as an iPhone user who considers USB-C the best thing to happen to the bloody things in half a decade: I don't think this sets a bad precedent. If Apple makes another "Lightning," i.e. something that beats the standard hands down, they will now be forced to work on it with the rest of the industry through the USB forum and then present that to the European Commission. I don't see that as a bad thing.
USB-C is good on performance but was designed terribly for an end user. Its almost impossible to clean a USB-C socket without bending/beaking the plastic tab in the middle. I miss being able to just stick a q-tip in the lightning socket on my old iPad to clean it. On the other hand USB-C seemed to prioritize the durability of the cable connector over the socket.
Dude, Apple still uses USB2.0 speeds in their phones, there isnt shit they are going to develop that is better. FFS, the lightning port was all around a worse port than USB-C, and the only reason they went with it was because they know people would be dumb enough to pay premium for it.
@@gbladewarrior6884I've had this happen to me cleaning the usbc ports of cheaper electronics but it hasn't happened to my phone or anything that I spent decent money on. It could've been a cheaply made port but I also don't know what this happened to on your end
This is basically my opinion on this.
@@NavyDood21lightining came out in 2012 and USB C came out in 2014. Lightning was a genuinely decent standard for the time because there was no charging standard. But then when USB C came out, Apple just decided to play hardball and not switch over
_"What about all the Lightning cables that are going to be wasted now?"_ They'll be used by people with older iPhones. Older iPhones don't just stop existing when a new one is released.
In the end a lot of people will write comments about this and I think it was a topic on WAN a lot of times and people mentioned it in the comments, but there still seems to be misconceptions about two points
1. Yeah it is democratic. Sure, there was no referendum, but as in any other democratic body there’s not a referendum on every issue. You elect a senate/parliament and they are your elected representatives. That’s the same what happens here: the EU parliament consists of elected representatives. EU citizens voted for them. And on behalf of their voters they vote on issues like these kinda laws. Sure we could talk about some politicians not really doing that, corruption and all this BS, but that’s another story
2. The law doesn’t state „has to be USB-C“. It states a committee has to come together to decide on a standard. Which right now is USB-C. If there’s gonna be a USB-D or whatever it’s gonna be called this can be easily established and used as a broad standard.
It’s great that Apple supports HDMI out even on the iPhone 15, most Android phones that only support USB 2.0 speeds don’t bother with HDMI output like Samsung’s A-series.
sooo, like my Galaxy S2 did?
@@pieterrossouw8596that was a flagship device at the time it came out, so of course it supported it. Now none of Samsung's low and mid range phones have it.
I agree, I hate when they cheap out on basic shit for Android phones. Like mf'er we know for a fact y'all can afford it because before iPhone X, y'all did it for less money.
It's penny pinching and I fucking hate them for it
@@random_bitit’s not not penny pinching, its upselling
They want to to buy the better device with more features for a higher price and profit margin
how would you ever call this undemocrtic??? the EU parliament is elected by the people. By this logic it should be considered undemocraic if the us congress (or any other national parliament for that matter) changes any sort of law in any country. Even here in swizerland where we have more votes about regulation than in any other country we don't get to vote on any matter we like (thoug it is mouch easier to force a vote about something). My point is that calling the process of a parliament changing some sort of law "undemocratic" is bs.
This confused me too. I like Switzerland’s direct democracy approach, but acting as if anything that isn’t a referendum is “undemocratic” is really stupid.
It was democratic, saying that it wasn't is uninformed. If EU hadn't pushed for standarization it wouldn't only be Apple, most devicemaker would have their own connector.
Questioning the democracy on this law is absurd, you clearly dont know how eu legislation is approved.
It being because they use an older chip is only sort of a valid reason. The reason for the older chip is almost certainly a cost saving thing (either "we didn't get enough use out of this chip design to cover the costs we wanted from using it", or "we already made a bunch of these and are offloading them on consumers so we don't have to eat the cost".
That is entirely fair, companies want to not lose money. But if they are going to do something like that, they could at least discount the base price for the non-pro phone compared to last year, since they are dumping old junk on the thing and calling it shiny and new.
On the subject of if it is a good thing for the EU doing this: they wouldn't have needed to it Apple wasn't trying to squeeze blood from the crumbling stone. They were one of the first ones to swap to usb c on their laptops, but they dragged their feet on their phones because they wanted to keep raking in the licensing fees.
No, it is not great that it needed to happen, but it really did. If we want to stop having governments doing this, we need to stop companies from being so horrifically greedy. And since the only way that is gonna happen is if they are forced to by governments, so this basically had to happen.
Not that I'm defending Apple's price structure, I feel the base 15s would be easily one of the most competitive phones if they were a bit cheaper, I also feel that them selling what effectively amounts to the previous gen pro with a few relatively minor features removed (like promotion, which the average user doesn't usually care about) at the base model price isn't particularly egregious. Heck, I'd argue that for many Apple users, the base 15 IS really competitive so long as they didn't come from the previous gen, since they'd be upgrading to what is effectively a pro model phone with some "useless" features tossed aside for way cheaper than it normally is (with added usbc support may be a boon for some as well).
Its not different from bmw saying we cant make our cars electric yet. Our engines are shit.
@@DragonEdge10tbh ProMotion is a very nice feature but a lot of iPhone users never experience it. High refresh rate displays just look better to me.
The comment from linus was a realization that it was an actual limitation of hardware and not an artificial software limit to differentiate the products. The latter being something we are seeing in a growing number of modern products.
Replaceable batteries next... which also means no more bills for replacing smashed backs. 😀
Now if the EU could mandate a standard headphone connection for all audio-capable devices that won't interfere with other connectivity ... oh I don't know, maybe something that's simple and cheap? Say about 3.5mm in size should fit absolutely any phone of any size. That would be awesome.
I don't see any comment about this but apple did leave a way to still use USB 2.0
This is the first year they called the new chip "pro" meaning that next year's iphone probably will use a different chip called just the 17
Meaning they could keep it without the usb 3 board
Apple saying that the regulation would hamper innovation while they are using 2010 technology is so funny😂😂.
One major con to lighning not mentioned is that if something breaks in a lighting connection its more likely to break device side and would be therefore more difficult and more costly to repair.... Just the way Apple likes it. Just get a new IPhone if the lighning connector is broken..... Talking about e-waste....
Is that true? From my experience lightning cables break faster but the port is pretty rugged compared to usb c ports with the thin male connector on the inside.
@@Adam-de8jm I got the information from Louis Rossmann and he states in his video that a Lightning port breakes easier than a USB C Port and that makes it more expensive. If a cable breaks it doesn't matter that much since it's cheap to replace.
I have noticed on lightning, the pins that carry voltage will always turn dark. you could also lick it while it's plugged in and get a zap on your tongue, so USB C is technically very slightly safer.
though lightning is easier to clean, you can just use a pick to get it out if you're careful.
But Type-C is less likely to get stuff in the port in the first place
@@RusticRonnie also true
Lmao
I want to ask how you know that but now you have said it i want to try it now
So that kinda answered my own question
When I needed to clean my phone's Type C port, I tried with a toothpick, but it was too thick. Filed it flat and worked like a charm. A nail file works if you don't have anything else to hand.
@@jfolz you can also buy cleaning kits made for this
lol calling micro USB a failed standard, when it was one of the most used ports and is still used today. Also lightning doesn’t plug in nicely. After a while it feels like a piece of crap
Lighting literally leaks electricity if you touch the connector while plugged in lol. You give yourself a shock
at what? 5 volts😂
@@eugeneputin1858 didn't say you're gonna die from it. Just that it's a small shock 🤣
@@angnobel Even damp skin wouldnt be enough to carry current through you at 5v. If you put it on your tongue, yes. You can short circuit a power drill battery with your fingers at 20v and even that isnt enough to penetrate skin. idk what you on about.
@@eugeneputin1858 no ones talking about penetrating skin. You can feel the tingle. Go try it with a cable plugged into the wall but to a phone. The contacts are exposed
EU just put the USB implementers forum in charge, also it isn't ewaste if you use a USB-C to Lightning Adapter. Which didn't always work when it was reversed.
because adapters are not ewaste?
10:38 - I am offended as a European. It WAS democratic as agreed upon by the citizens of the member states either when joining the EU or when making the decisions to get to the process that yields these decisions. The people that make these kinds of decisions are selected by the citizens of EU countries, so, by their very definition, they represent the people who elect then as representatives. It does not need, SHOULD not be a referendum! Even if the process is sub-optimal, it is a process that yields beneficial outcomes. Please understand how a representative democracy works. It is an okay process.
Lol, so which part of the democratically elected body voting on a law that a commission comprising of representatives of each state and the industry drafted to enforce *a standard*, which currently happens to be USB-C but can be updated every couple of years with the input of experts and people in the industry, was undemocratic?!
I need the meme of a dude labelled "techbro" pointing at a butterfly labelled "a tiny bit of regulation" and asking "is this fascism?"
I've heard people saying the USB 2.0 makes sense because it's using A16 Bionic, but like... why? they knew about this legislation years in advance, no? so why wouldn't they just put a USB 3.0 controller on it to begin with, even if the lightning port on the 14 doesn't support those speeds? or just, plan ahead, and make a design for the SoC that supports USB 3.0 and genuinely make a new variant of A16 with a USB 3.0 controller just for the iPhone 15. or just call it A17, and give it a new chip that's basically the same but with USB 3.0 (like they used to! new chip for the base model each year!). At best, this seems like genuinely awful futureproofing, from a company known for futureproofing their mobile hardware, and at worst an intentional decision to make the Pro seem ever so slightly more attractive
The EU is not democratic?
The EU is still democratic, but unfortunately the right-wing camps are gaining more and more support. However, the WW2 has brought some laws that fortunately make a change to a dictatorship, in most countries very difficult.
The same way north korea is democratic
I guess anything that isn't decided by direct vote doesn't count as democratic now.
How new.
So democracy is only good when people you agree with are in power?
Governments around the world: 🔥🔪😳😳
European Union: 🗿
Yeah yeah nothing’s perfect I know
But this move dude
They care
It was voted on by the European Parliment, which is directly elected by all the citizens of the European Union - thus, yes, it *was* a democratic decision that could've not been signed into law (but thankfully was), had enough elected representatives voted against it. :)
I think that if I trust one Government agency to regulate tech, it would be the EU because they are a bit more forward thinking than others.
We already have governing bodies that make big decisions. They're not always right. In this case, they got this right in my opinion. It's good to see government working well. It's funny because I got into a bit of a spirited conversation with someone who was against this under the impression that USB-C was mandated, though it sounds like the standard connector can be revised. But under that assumption, my adversary was complaining that this will stifle innovation for when USB-C is obsolete in its capabilities. My point was that mandating it forces phone makers to quit dragging their feet and staying on older or proprietary connectors when the innovation has already happened with USB-C. In practical terms, innovation was slowed down because there was not a mandate. As for the notion of USB-C getting obsolete, it's important to remember that USB-C is a connector. It can be USB2, but it can also be USB4. Maybe a better connector will be made, but even if such a thing happens, USB-C can handle 240W power delivery and 80Gbps data transfer(so far), It will be difficult for that port to truly be obsolete for mobile devices even if we're stuck with it forever and something better comes along.
The EU parliament is elected (even if turnout has never been ideally high) so it's difficult to say this isn't democratic. In that respect, no government decision made without referendum is democratic which is most of them and for good reason.
I think it would be enforced more for larger manufacturers of more popular products. You can still buy old cables, you can probably still buy old devices.
What they want is the connector to be the same, but of course they could make a new connector standard in the future to replace it. And you can use Infrared, raw Radio, laser, NFC, Wi-Fi
Thanks to the EU for stepping in and stopping companies in their relentless cash grabs. The US was never going to do it. The EU privacy laws are also leading the way while thre US just keeps quiet as long as the companies are printing money amd supporting their campaign funds.
US will only come in if it's a foreign company (TikTok for example or Huwaie phones).
Requiring a certain connector doesn't stifle innovation, because if a company wants to make a new innovative connector, they can just add it as a second port. If it's truly a better connector (and the company fully opens it up for standardization), then we can switch the standard to that.
yeah too bad putting two ports on a phone is a terrible idea, companies need every cubic millimeter of internal space they can get for haptics, speakers, the battery, cellular/wifi/bluetooth modem, logic board with storage and processor, etc.
Who actually gives 0.00001 F's about the tactical feel of plugging in a freaking charging cable. Seriously. 3 people on the entire face of the Earth.
It's quite ironic to ask if it's "Democratic"...where was the US and Canada all this time to protect consumers? If they wanted to be democratic then perhaps they should get off their arse and actually regulate like they're supposed to.
1:18 Linus is absolutely wrong here. Apple purposely went out of their way to name the new pro chip “A17 PRO” not just A17. It’s very likely that the base iphone 16 will get a cut down version of this chip called the A17 which again will not have a USB3 controller. They 100% plan to keep USB3 a pro-only feature, at least the way I see it.
Micro b was a worse connector than C but I've never had one fail. Even after being chewed on by a dog or sucked up in a vacuum and having the wiring half exposed. People must have been really rough on their connectors to continously break them
the spring-like things inside them lose tension over time and they get loose, it's not the wire itself that fails
@@spagootest2185yea, most of my micro usb cable had this problem, the only one lasting until now is from anker.
Ever dropped a phone while it's charging and snapped off or bent the end
I've had many female connectors fail over the years and the male ones had that spring fail as mentioned above
Glad it's gone now
@@spagootest2185 Yep, I had mine wear out regularly just from unplugging or plugging it in, it wasn't the cable, it was the socket/plug that would always end up too loose, and would require me to angle the plug or hold it in a specific spot for it to charge, so I regularly had my phone sitting with a pen tucked under the plug to hold it up at the right angle to charge properly.
"Was that democratic?" Yes, it was - approved by a vote in the European Parliament.
The best thing about “lightning” is imo the durability and how easy it is to clean.
So wrong... Americans and Canadians try to understand EU. Haha. Just funny
Lol what's so funny about it
@@TonyTonychoppa420 It's funny because they think about European politics with a NA understanding.
@@TonyTonychoppa420 the fact that he calls undemocratic the best example of working democracy.
@@MadKlaussEU politics boils down to just banning things without thinking about side effects. There’s a reason why there’s no notable European tech companies. I can only think of ASML and Nokia. And Nokia is shit
@@cornheadahh Not sure what you are blabbing about.
Nokia is a prominent tech giant nowadays. They just don't care about the consumer market anymore. There is also Philips and many more.
The main response I have to the point about Europe dictating the direction of technology for the whole world, well, that's what America has been doing for literal decades. And as an Australian, I'm glad these recent changes have been driven by the EU rather than the US, as the former seems to be way less dystopianly hypercapitalist
The continent that caused most major wars, literally gave birth to all sorts of fascistic ideology where government is put above the individual, where multiple conquerors created ridiculously oppressive empires. Especially considering these decisions are coming from a body of _at best_ indirectly elected bureaucrats led by the same countries that caused the last major wars. Yeah, that one is definitely much, much better than *bad bad america with hypercapitalism*.
That "undemocratic" argument is quite a red herring. First of all, sure, there was no referendum, but that doesn't mean "not democratic". That's not how other decisions are made in most representative democracies either. They were made by officials that gotten to their positions by democratic processes. But more importantly, it is the most democratic way of doing it of all available options here. if you want a process where citizens or "the consumers" have a say, the alternative is much less effective and indeed not democratic at all. The alternative is to let "the market" handle it, i.e. corporations decide what's in their best interest. And that has clearly shown that reducing waste by standardizing is not profitable, nor are other things that would be beneficial to consumers like replaceable batteries or a design catered to reasonable levels of easy repairability. The only democratic way of getting those things is to go through the democratic entities that can do anything about it - that's those governing bodies.
All I ever use the lightning port for is charging and I can’t remember the last time I used a wired connection to transfer data. I have 3 android phones and several other devices that have USB-C and 4 apple devices with lightning. Using 2 different cables has never been an issue that I have worried about. USB-C may be beneficial for some people but for my use cases it really doesn’t matter either way.
it's as democratic as it gets, this was decided by an elected body, with extensive hearings however for once it wasn't decided in the US
And most people agree on this specific decision aswell
Mechanically, I prefer lightning cause of the reasons luke mentioned, but also because there isn't a "thing" in the middle of the port. It's just a flat piece that plugs into a hole, and when that hole gets filled with dryer lint I can (carefully, yes) stick a toothpick or pin in and clean it out. It's a lot more difficult with a USB-C connector. I don't prefer lightning overall, but the mechanical design is very, very good.
I'm not an Apple fan, own Android phone and devices, I find that Lighting port is more mechanically durable.
The pin out is on the housing, and there's nothing in the middle, unlike USB. USB (female side), the centre piece is plastic, which contains the pins, and I've seen many USB ports (Standard A, mini-B and micro-B), the plastic housing containing the pins broke.
I thought that Type-C is going to have its pin out on housing like Lighting, but nope, it's just waiting for the pin holder to break away.
Im not even careful, i just jam a metal needle in there to clean it. Never had an issue. That being said, I am glad lightning is being purged so I can just pack a single cable to charge both my phone and ipad
We have connectors on the lightning pins burning out and the cable becomes useless. (Disadvantage of having a reduced number of conductors).
Lightning as a solid metal piece is so much better for durability. Both sides of usb c has a higher chance to be bent.
Imagine if they just released all new iPhones with high speed Thunderbolt, cable included in the box + better fast charging. This would have make Apple look so much better. They could sell even more extra accessories and offer actual Pro features.
The take, that somehow a great new port is suddenly coming along and this bill would stop the innovation, is pretty naive for someone who has been in the tech industry for so long.
USB-C was not developed by a small startup but was the result of cooperation between some of the biggest tech companies with huge influence.
If indeed a relevant breakthrough were to be made that required a different port design, these companies would have enough attention to convince the relevant commissions.
Developing a new standard is a project in which most of the industry is involved and will therefore be monitored closely by the EU.
Linus needs to get his facts straight when talking about politics. Obviously it was democratic as the European Parliament is elected by the citizens of the European Union.
@@pey-petZCyes and that branch is the parliament mentioned in the original comment
@@pey-petZC There is the EU Parliament where each member nation has elected representatives, then there is the EU Council that is made up of the Heads of State of each member country i.e each countries president / prime minister which are elected within their respective country, and then there is the EU Commission which acts as the executive, the Commission is elected by the members of the Parliament.
@@Bogster13 the EU Council is not the relevant Council since it mostly has a representive function. More important is the Council of the EU which also is a legislative body and is made up of the Minister responsible for the subject (agriculture, defence and so on) from each member state.
"Will we be stuck with USB-C forever"?
You mean how we were stuck with Micro-B forever? Seriously? You're talking about how they updated regulations from Micro-B to C, and you're wondering if it's going to be C forever?
🤦
I never had a USB-micro connector/socket fail. The actual cable bit broke on a few of them, but not the micro plug part.
I would've never had an issue with Apple keeping Lightning if not for the fact that they used USB-C on macbooks and iPads for however long now. This change was long overdue.
It's because they are on the usb committee and took Part in optimizing USB c for their own needs as well. I think everyone on the committee was united on making it small, fast, durable, secure
Aapple could have just updated their silicon this year instead of next year
They could have but it would lead to delays which lead to marginally lower profits in the short term. And Apple's investors cant have that.
The A16 wasn’t in any other devices but the A15 was in the iPad Mini. The USB C port in the iPad Mini supported USB 3.1 Gen 1 at 5 Gbps.
I would imagine the A16 wouldn’t lose this functionality, and in future devices that use the A16 we may see USB C with 5Gbps speeds.
Americans / Canadians try to understand what a representative democracy is challenge (Impossible)
Dude, the EU has a democratically elected parliament.
Pretty offensive that you imply otherwise
Of course there are rules in every kind of industries, and it´s good to see standardization. Think of automotive industry, there are many designs that have to be in general specs, bumber heights, impact resistance, headlights luminosity, etc. etc. Yes there is the problem of lobbying, but do you really want automakers make there own rules? The same must count for big tech companies, rules that are better for us consumers.
The nice thing about USB-C is that it's pretty darn future proof as far as capabilities are concerned.
It got all the way up to 48V 5A charging speeds, and can carry 10Gbit of data bog standard.
It has "dumb USB2, and USB3" along with PD communication channel, and a sideband channel for DP signals and PCIe Express.
And those channels with the power of software and controller updates can be used to implement more complex standards.
Better built cables can also enable the data-pins to run even faster.
A phone should never really need anything better for at least a couple of decades.
And if Intel's Thunderbolt 5 announcement is anything to go by, (we will likely see the tech adopted in USB5), the connecter still has a ton of room to grow.
If a governing body didn't get involved on standards then everyone would have their own standards and we go back to the 70/80's computing world - Lots of innovation, true, but lots of deadends, missed opportunities and overall waste. Without standardisation modern civilization simply would not be possible (seriously - Go look up the first standardised product of a nut and bolt and tell me having a single spanner for each and every nut and bolt is better?)
“It’s not democratic” is about one of the stupidest things you’ve ever said Linus.
The only reason I don’t like lightning, for the iPhone is because those cables would break so much faster than USB-C cables
which is part of the reason why the whole proprietary thing is bad in the first place
I’ve never broken a lightning cable.
That's at most a problem specifically of Apple's cable (and apple has a long history of cables not lasting). The only fundamental difference between USB-C and Lightning is the connector itself, and the lightning connector is generally more reliable than USB-C (though it can have shorting problems, the "black pin" issue).
felt like apple needed the legislation to do this otherwise their stockholders woulda cried about the loss of revenue from MFi lighting sales
Lightning could have been a standard if left open for others to use, and USB-C (the connector) would have never existed, but it is not how Apple works. They had brand specific connectors way back in the 80-90s too. Even for keyboards and dumb stuff.
Governments set and reevaluate technical standards all the time. It's not a perfect process. Sometimes it takes too long, sometimes they jump the gun and set a bad standard. It's a process with pretty well understood advantages and limitations. It certainly isn't any kind of precedent. It's also worth reiterating, that the EU legal system is primarily based on civil law. Precedents are much less important.
I still prefer barrel jack for all power and not USB C due to the longevity of USB C and many of the controllers fail . I own a repair shop and some the USB C controller IC’s are impossible to get unless you buy a donor board since manufacturers won’t allow me to buy that specific ic.
Wow! I did not even know of that potential supply chain conundrum. That's huge!
Devices don't have to have ONLY USB C for charging, they can have a barrel jack too. So with laptops (smartphones basically never used barrel jacks) it's not much of a problem.
Many of the newer laptops don't have barrel jacks and I get in often Lenovo Gaming laptops where the controller IC is fried. Some of the them when 1 is fried both USB C ports wont charge or do anything. Sometimes the customer is lucky and the other side works if I'm not able to fully get it working. Depends on the model but ya most do not come with barrel jack as often which really does hurt the repair side. Some controller IC's cost me 25-35$ each before markup on the ones I am able to get. That makes the repair way more costly than it should.@@TheGrejp
Also im not talking really about the ThinkPad models. Many have both : The Lenovo style square jack and the USB C next to each other. Those are mostly fine since people are using a dock that has a big rectangle adapter with 2 plugs 1 Thunderbolt & Lenovo Square combined. Those often don't break. Just the standalone USB C models.@@TheGrejp
Ya similar to how Apple stops the manufactures from selling some of the power management ic's. Same boat going over to USB C for many of the brands. We will see how everything turns out but even some of the USB C connectors I can't even buy so I have to modify one similar just to make it work. This was a problem for me on a few Dell laptops recently too. The power management IC was fine but I was not able to find a replacement jack so I had to use one from a different brand. By cutting the legs off and a few other steps I was able to mount and solder it correctly ( The best I could with what I had ). @@EasyHeat
Of course its democratic if people that are elected vote for a law.
The hearings about the charger standardisation were long a drawn out (they started before the pandemic) the conclusion was not "type-c or bust" it was "choose a best option and continue till theres another"
Additionally, the EU seems to have significantly less issue with lobbyists writing laws.
Linus is sitting in a literal monarchy that answers to a literal king and talks about EU not being democratic.
EU has 3 main bodies. Parliament (legislature, represents continuances, directly elected), European Council (represents individual countries, each member must be democratically elected in their state, you can think of them like state governors in USA), and European Commission (executive cabinet government, appointed by the Council and Parliament together, quite similar in the way that Canadian Prime Minister is appointed, except approval from a literal king is not required).
The reality is that EU is quite similar to the way UK, Canada and Australia are run, except that individual states (who must be democracies) are more powerful than in a standard federal system.
The law itself is written to require industry to agree on a connector. If they don't like USB-C, bring forward another one, and the law allows it as long as USB-IF approves of it.
Please stop with the brain-dead takes, Linus, if you know nothing about how EU operates.
Constitutional Monarchy. The King is basically just a ceremonial position. He doesn't have any power to govern. And what powers the crown does theoretically have, they don't actually use. They just defer to each country's prime ministers.