The Problems With The DCEU
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2023
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The behind the scenes stuff with DCEU is more interesting than the movies themselves
Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.
I really want if they ever made a warner bros documentary series they dedicate an episode to dc
That's the movie we all want
They should make a movie about it. It might actually come close to beating a billion dollars. I smell a sequel...
😂 yes indeed
"The Problem is Simple. The DCU is trying to catch up all at once, with Marvel. Who has established it's Characters and movie Universe for over 20yrs..."
The problem is you have people who don't understand the characters, nor do they understand how to make the audience care about the characters, making these movies. They should've brought in comic writers or people who worked on the animated DC content.
@Gittana it could've worked without Snyder. His vision and tone was an awful platform to try to build an entire cinematic universe off of.
True but they could have pulled it off if they had someone who understood and respected the characters at the helm instead of Snyder.
@@BaithNa Agreed, if they did not rush. And would have involved those Writers and Directors in the DC Animated Movie Department. They would have been way more unified and successful. Those movies are Great...
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp David, exactly. The DC Animated Movie Department, Movies are way better and understand the Comics. If DC wasn't so greedy trying to play Catch Up. They would/should bring those people in...
Unfortunately, the stuff with the Rock extends beyond the DC drama and that falls in some part on his shoulders. He has forgotten that he has to work with other people under other people's rules. He got to a point where he believed he can make all the rules if he is going to work on a project. I think that caused part of the problems between the Rock, Vin Diesel and the Fast and the Furious series.
If the DCU going to reboot Black Adam, maybe they should consider Vin Diesel for the role.
Like one of Diesel's iconic roles was Riddick, so we know he can do Anti-Heros
@@ryanhau1073 that would be the ultimate fuck you to the rock haha I actually almost want it
Riddick sucked every time and failed at box office every time. Black Adam was a great movie. Surely in the top of them all, but fake negative reviews discouraged people to see it in cinemas, like on the first day it got 35% from the "critics", even purely because of the hate for the Rock, while audiences gave it solid 95% for the whole month. Same story with Shazam 2.
@@ryanhau1073 Lol, that would be so low down 😂😂😂😂
Maybe he saw the memes and thought everyone was being serious. Dude believed his own hype. That never ends well.
I knew the Dceu would be a mess the moment Superman snapped Zod's neck.
The actor for General Zod was awesome, however his talent was wasted by bringing Zod in too soon. There should have been build up.
That wasn't even a problem
@@AwankOyea make a sequel
@@BlazingBurrito2K no it's not
@@BlazingBurrito2K no it wasn't.. 🤦♂️
The first problem was thinking they needed to have a cinematic universe to begin with. The Batman made more money than Man of Steel and BvS and The Joker is one of the biggest success stories of all time. DC probably could've just adapted popular stories, mainstream or otherwise, and put an emphasis on story quality with solid marketing and they would be a breath of fresh air compared to the MCU which is currently falling off more and more every year.
But if they really wanted to push for a cinematic universe, their biggest mistakes were handing these comic book characters over to Zack Snyder in the first place and rushing so much.
Batman v. Superman is proof that rushing to the finish line and having Zack in charge of the overall universe was a bad idea. Zack's opinions on super heroes and comic books have all been mean spirited and so was his universe. His quote about how Batman could be r__ped in prison in his movie is enough for me to not want him working on that character. And we could be here all day talking about the Lex initiated Justice League.
This FOX X-Men mess of a timeline the DCEU is now is proof that nobody had a real plan once Snyder stepped down. Hopefully, James Gunn fixes that.
I liked the vibe/direction of peacemaker where the world exist and everyone in it just knows that these heroes exist. It felt more open and free
Which is why I like what Gunn plans to do with the DCU. Characters are already established and can be brought in anytime. It's gonna be like the Justice league animated series and Young Justice🔥
The first Iron Man movie literally mentioned “the Avengers initiative” in the after credits scene, so Marvel was clearly building to Avengers from day one (I presume because someone saw the high quality of Iron Man 1 and knew it was going to be a smash)
@Gittana that’s what I meant. But still shows how early they were planning Avengers
@Gittana end script also mentioned tobey spiderman to be part of avengers
Wow I didn’t even know that!! they were prepared
@@michaeljosephjackson2364 what?!
George Miller's Justice League script was great. I woudve definitely loved to see it.
For me it's always been two problems that crippled the DCEU from the start:
1. They wanted to run before they could walk, blindly stumbling into one big event after another instead of telling stories and using the big stuff as payoffs.
2. DC always concentrates more on the powers than the people behind it. That's what made the MCU's Iron Man arc so nice, it was ultimately about the redemption of a self-serving asshole into someone who sacrifices himself for others, with him running into threats of his own making along the way. The cool toys he has just provide fluff. Sadly, Marvel has been unlearning that lesson ever since the Endgame aftermath.
May have been from Benny himself but I forgot who I heard it from recently, but essentially a youtuber said that superheroes aren’t a genre in the same way animation isn’t.
Superheroes are just a medium used to tell stories, and how a lot of great superhero stories get that.
I.e Logan being a western with superheroes, or a lot of Spider-Man media using Spider-Man as an allegory for growing up etc, the throughline being, “a superhero and blank”
A lot of superhero movies tend to miss out on that and just make a superhero movie or at least lean too hard onto it to the point where there’s nothing else left to gravitate to it.
@@theradionicrevival8068 It's the same with Science Fiction in general, If you don't understand the medium you just end up with some crappy space battle that's best left forgotten, but if you do know what you're doing it's a canvas that allows you angles that seemed impossible with regular movies, even giving you prophetic stories like Andromeda Strain or Colossus and their subsequent movie adaptions.
I appreciate and look forward to DC animated shows and movies much more than the live action movies. In animation you can do so much more and go crazy with it.
It was so fun when DCAU and separate animated writers give more respect to the source material. The best ones I remenber are Under the Red Hood, All-star Superman, The Dark Knight Returns, Flashpoint Paradox, and the final JL animated film.
Actually James Gunn is gonna run animation department of DC too, so prepare yourself for seeing that section ruin to the ground again...
@@artfire28 The Death of Superman was one of the first/only movies to make me cry and made me understand the appeal of Supes.
I don't think the MCU was a light crossover event. They introduced Nick Fury and name dropped the Avengers in the first Ironman. Then Stark showed up in the incredible hulk less than a year later. They were laying groundwork for Avengers from the jump.
James Gunn is the best thing that happened to DC probably ever . He understands comics , he understands this characters and most importantly he has a plan. Also I'm so glad that he's rebooting this broken universe,he's getting a lot of hate for it from a certain group for recasting their favourite actor but this was long overdue. DCEU was broken from the start , Hamada should have done it , instead of making whatever projects he should have rebooted the universe.
The whole gods and monsters looks amazing , every single project is different and really interesting can't wait to see this universe grow .
But the question is, is Mr. Gunn enough to save DC? I don't think the problems are with the stories right now.
When Gunns DCU fails alot of goofs are gonna wanna off themselves.
If WB executives keep butting in bringing Gunn to the table isn’t going to amount to much either!!!
For me, it’s a simple problem. They decided to build a DC franchise based on a Superman movie made by people who didn’t particularly like Superman, arguably straight up hated Superman.
I wanted to believe Snyder was not the problem but after him saying he wanted Wonder Woman and the gods to be cryptonian it quickly began to become clear that Snyder didn’t really care much about the characters and was carelessly going to ruine them which gave me some faith in James
When did he say that? Was that before or after he left DCEU?
Nope. As we have seen in his dceu movies so far, the amazons power scale is far weaker compared to kryptonians. It is safe to say he was not going to make that plan real.
I would love for a DC Cinematic Universe to be successful, cuz as much as I love Marvel and the MCU, I also love DC, and my absolute favorite Superhero is Green Lantern, so I would love for there to be a good, and successful film series, or TV Show, about him and the other Lantern Corps.
Agree, I love comics (DC, Marvel, Image, etc.) and in my case Batman followed by Superman are my favorite DC characters but in a way I can't describe, that does not mean that I don't love others characters... like Dick Grayson, Hall, Barry, Diana, Arthur, etc. it pains me not having a good & successful DC live action universe. If things were done right at this point I already had watched a Batman movie with a proper Robin, Superman tackling the challenges of fatherhood, a good sidekick movie (Teens Titan) as well as a proper Green Lantern trilogy explaining the Manhunters Massacre and culminating in a Sinestro Corps War movie.
The thing that frustrated me the most for the DCEU is that they announced so many projects all at once and majority of those were never made. Like, they’d announce that we’d get solo movies for Cyborg, Zatanna, Deadshot, Lobo, Green Lantern, and Wonder Twins, but I get the feeling they never had any intentions on getting around to these. Like, announcing it and hyping people up was more important in the moment. It just feels so irresponsible and unreliable to do this.
Yea that’s another thing I forgot about. They started just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what stuck without an actual plan. Like, they also said they wanted to do a Ted Kord BB/Booster Gold teamup movie, Hawkman & Hawkgirl, Nightwing, Blue Beetle solo (which is the only one they actually saw through and is coming out this year. Looking forward to it!), Booster Gold solo, Plastic Man, Joker + Harley/Mad Love, and other stuff like that. But you mentioned Cyborg and Green Lantern. I wouldn’t include those only because they were on that initial DCEU slate that Snyder had put out. So there were ACTUAL plans for those movies to be made lol.
Another thought with the topic of a darker Superman. I agree that they should have kept Clark Kent Superman more colorful and optimistic, and instead used the darker tone in a spinoff like how they split up Shazaam and Black Adam. There's already many Superman-like characters that can fit a darker storyline. Black Adam himself, keep Zod alive and have one focused on him, or one based on his son. There's Cyborg Superman, or Superboy. Probably even more, but can't remember. They could've started with the classic more known Superman, and then waited for a sequel to revise one of these characters' origins to handle a darker plot after Doomsday temporarily makes Superman disappear. Could have even probably did a movie focusing on Lex trying to trying to make himself appear as a greater hero with Superman's absence and either redeem himself in that version of the universe or become broken in the darker tone, further derailing into a more serious villain role after being shunned by other Justice League members and lead on to a potential rebranding of the League of Doom.
He should've adapted Birthright the right way instead of having his superman like the new 52 and earth one versions,the whole "can we trust Superman" plot was done alot better in Birthright and the fundamental characteristics of Superman didn't change at all
DC means dark comics
@@Maolana_ModiGDC is lighthearted and dark. Not just Dark
Love this video...could've sat and listened for over an hour...lots of good points. And yeah Dawn of Justice did try to cover a lot, like the death of Superman. I think X-Men 3 and Spider-Man 3 had that same issue. And I also heard the same lack of cohesion existed with the DC comic book universe a year or so ago. But hopefully things will come together.
Your recent videos have gotten better and better
You do a good job explaining the background of certain superhero films and stories and how they came to be
Snyder was a big part of the problem considering he doesn’t even understand the basics of Batman and Superman
Well WB scapegoated Snyder, fans who liked Snyder’s movies, & the cast & some fans took their side. WB botched BvS, SS1, JL
Warner not listening to fans was the problem
You spelled he made them interesting wrong...Sorry nobody but the remedial DC fanboys care about or want boyscout Christopher Reeve Superman, its boring, its predictable, its 2023 not 1977.....Sorry Batman "doesn't use guns" is a animated series/cartoon thing not an actual comic book thing. Guns were a main gadget until the late 50s early 60s
The people who cry the most are usually the ones that don't understand the "basics" of a character because their knowledge generally only comes from cartoons...Cartoons that exist because in the 1950s readership of Batman and Robin was down, so it was changed to cater to children, to make it acceptable for cartoons and to get the 1966 tv series going.
Oh you are one those people who doesn't like changes....just want to watch same thing again and again...UK what ..a quote of joker justifies people like u ..."They laughed at me because I'm different, I laughed at them because they are all the same" .... good luck
@Gittana that's the problem. This isn't Watchmen. Instead of giving us the definitive versions of the characters, he gave us his own deconstructed take. His version of what he thinks these characters are. And his version sucks.
peanut butter REALLY CAN go on just about anything and it will taste good, multiple chains have a peanut butter burger, and most of them are awesome, they usually have a spicy cheese or some heavily peppered bacon, or both and they add honey to the peanut butter to make it pop even more, the sweet, savory, greasy, spicy, crunchy, chewy combo is just plain amazing.
God i havent had a PB Burger in ages❤
Totally agree. Most of if not all of these movies would have been better and probably cohesive (even with some different directors and writers collaborating) if wb saw a single plan through. Instead of the singular plan to make lots of money. Plus watching them repeat the same mistake over and over again.
Chasing Marvel is what got WB in trouble. Watching the throne and trying to duplicate it without organic world building is why. James Gunn’s best work is now behind him in Guardians of the Galaxy. WB and DC want to be Marvel. They need to let it go. Wait for Marvel’s run to end and then perhaps revisit the idea. You can’t successfully build up your own universe while you are simultaneously trying to live in someone else’s
I understand Batman being one of the founders of the Justice League, but they can both have Batman standalone and crossover just by having a small cameo with the formation of the Justice League, and easily explained not showing up in future installments of a Justice League series for being too busy either in Gotham or doing his own Covert Ops behind the scenes and feature other unused Batman characters (so far), such as Nightwing or Oracle, in his place.
Should've had a Worlds Finest movie before jumping into Justice League. Using elements from that Worlds Finest 3 parter episode from Superman the animated series, and taking a few elements from Public enemies.
Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.
@@treek10k this is true
There is something you got wrong, as response to the mcu, wb did try to start their shared but with green lantern.
Man of steel was already a project in the work to be a new self contain superman trilogy.
After green lantern flopped, they abandon those plans. Then in 2012 avenger movie made a billion dollar in the box office, wb saw this success so they went snyder and jury rigg his superman movie to be the start of their shared universe without having a concrete vision for what their shared universe would be.
I think two of the biggest reason why the DCEU failed was trying to have the entire universe be under one Director/tone, and WB changing their minds whenever stuff fails. Superman should not be brooding and dark like Batman, he is supposed be hopeful and optimistic. If Batman v Superman was well received they would have never tried to change the Justice League, and if Justice League wasn't a box office bomb, then we would have at least seen the end of Synder's original plan for the universe.
Hopefully James Gunn will bring DC back into the spotlight and we will have great movies again.
Sorry not sorry. WB may have butchered the Batman v Superman theatrical cut, but it doesn't change the fact that it made 800 million, no matter how much remedial with a hard R people push the billion dollar trash narrative that a movie is a failure if it doesn't make over a billion it was a success.
Snyder wasn't building a universe. He was making a FIVE movie story arc and after that WB was on their own for what to do after the story was finished.
Justice League would've come out fine if Zack didn't unfortunately lose his daughter during filming, which made him step away from the project.
@@lutherheggs451 would've been more interesting if they had the definitive DCEU, and the Snyder version releasing alongside. The Snyder version could end with Darkseid winning. Flash goes to the main universe to get that Justice League's help in stopping Darkseid and saving the world.
Gunn still acting as a director is what concerns me because who knows what’ll happen. If his Superman made a billion, expect that to be the running vibe regardless of his denial until proven otherwise
they were never in the spotlight wtf😂
21:34 Not even with a new Superman and Batman, he wanted to have Michael Keaton from that point on back as Batman but in a more Nick Fury-type role with Batgirl taking his place, and erasing Superman and replacing him with Supergirl instead of, oh I don’t know, continuing to have Superman and Batman as the faces of this universe with Supergirl and Batgirl fighting alongside them in their movies and maybe even having their own spin-off movies or something (seriously did the old WB heads just wake up every morning and go “how can I continue to mess DC the frick up today”)
The DCEU makers offered Christain Bale the chance to play Batman again, but he turned it down.
Damn
His Batman doesn’t really work with the comic/fantastical version of these characters in this universe
Absolutely. The AVENGERS already beat DC to a “live action Justice League animated series.” MARVEL comics began in 1961 with Fantastic Four/Avengers/Spider-Man/XMen. All of those characters were in ONE single universe living and existing beside each other. DC COMICS was different. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. All these characters were brought individually by National Comics (DC Comics). Because of this, these individual characters brought their whole universe of characters to the company known as DC COMICS. Because of this, DCU should just let these franchises exist in their OWN universe. A Batman trilogy with him existing in his OWN universe. Same with Superman and Wonder Woman and etc. At the end of the trilogy uou can then univeese them all into ONE universe with CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, the way it was done in 1985 comic book event. Maybe flash’s time traveling and multiverse travels causes CRISIS.
His is a grounded and self contained version. He shouldn't be crossing over with anybody.
Aside from the Nolanverse being too grounded, it would've made the ending of The Dark Knight Rises pointless.
This video could be 8 hours long and still not address all the problems 🤦
:/
Facts
10:00 The MCU started with the hulk(edward norton). It was not an afterthought. It was the start of post credit scenes leading to the next movie. It did however hang on the success of ironman though. Rumor say edward norton wakes up in the middle of the night crying with all that lost income.
DC characters that need their own movies that can stand alone; Amethyst, Blue Devil, Katana, Plastic Man, Swamp Thing (a newer one), The Omega Men, Ambush Bug, Peacemaker & Vigilante. Characters to avoid; Anyone who's already had a DCCU appearance who isn't Katana, Peacemaker & Vigilante. Those two should be the new Dynamic Duo since nobody seems to know who Robin is at any given time and have them team up with Katana in a sequel.
WB: “Money Pleaze!!”
There's a quote "history tends to repeat itself".. DC lacking continuity, and marvel spreading itself to thin.. this happened in the 90s.. i bet the big wigs in charge are the same people from 30 years ago but haven't learned anything since 😂
Shazam is the brightest spot at least, even with all the horror elements
Shazam is a glorified CW/Berlantiverse tv series that looks as if it has about the same production levels as that awful Clark's kids Creek CW show Superman & Lois
@Gittana as someone who watches the arrowverse, it is trash. Superman and Lois isn't bad, but the flash is horrible. It has gone on for way too long and the person in charge would rather put his self insert getting with a character he brags he created and have a character literally say how someone is feeling like we're toddlers. Most of the CW is bad, but there are hidden gems. I wish I could stop watching these shows though.
Factual,it has a balanced tone instead of trying too hard to be serious like the snyder DC movies or being too comedic like the love and thunder
At this time my son was on top of all the comics news. He told me about Batman v Superman. The selling point was Batman and Superman fighting. Not them joining forces to save the world. Nope. Then it was going to lead to a justice league movie. No introduction of any of the other characters. Just "Boom" a justice league movie. I said, the minute he told me this, I don't think this is a good idea. It just doesn't make any sense. Basically I was right
BvS is an embarrassment when it comes to how badly it sullied Superman and Batman by misrepresenting them.
6:57 I don't like but love how this metaphor pretty much sums up what went wrong with WB's course of thinking.. they have no idea what the heck is going on.
Funny thing is both the Amazing Spiderman and Avengers almost put easter eggs into their movies hinting at a crossover between the two
yeah it felt to me that WB wanted to rush there own DC cinematic universe out the door without a plan whatsoever from the very beginning and it just bite them in the ass literally, which is why I knew the DCEU was doomed to fail because you don't rush a universe early you take time to build a universe or make success movies first and for most not rush a universe into being without a plan but that's just my opinion.
Can you do the problem with the Teen Titans. I felt like they were supposed to be this group of future hero’s led by nightwing but kinda just fell off and was forgotten about. Appreciate your content man feeling like a kid again 😅
WB dropped the ball so hard they cared about profit and not the product. If they had split Batman v Superman into 2 movies where it was a build up of the characters crossing paths it would have made more sense.
I treated DCEU different from MCU. It all depends who writes outside the comics. Plus the insertion ofidentity politics do not help but sinking both deeper and i hope writers should give more respect to the source material. The DCAU for me is better.
They could do a "New Gods" film franchise that stands on its own. If it proves popular, they can cross it over with the new DC film universe.
New Gods would not make money unfortunately. It could be a great TV show on HBO though.
@@blakepittman6679
If Iron Man could be successful despite being a B tier hero at best before the MCU, I don't see why it wouldn't work with the New Gods.
I mean for starters, they could take Orion and play up the fact that he is the son of The Darkseid as a publicity stunt, and then just invest on making it a great movie, so that it can keep selling.
@@zettovii1367 most DC fans do not care about the New Gods. There is not an audience.
@@blakepittman6679
But most DC fans do care about Darkseid.
My point is there are grounds that could make the New Gods popular, and it would be via Orion who got potential for a pretty great story and cinematic universe in of itself.
Also, for as unpopular the New Gods may be, less successful franchises have exploded in popularity with less things going for them, like say The Guardians of the Galaxy.
Barely anyone cared about GotG before the MCU, yet nowadays they are almost as well liked as the Avengers.... When the only thing that made them relevant in the MCU, is that they are kinda related to the Avenger busting villain Thanos.... Who unlike Darkseid, was also pretty unknown for the mainstream audience.
@@zettovii1367 GotG succeeded because it was part of the MCU, and that’s it. Fans and general audience members alike knew it would be an entertaining film based on the previous Marvel entries. DC has not built up any trust with the general audience. They cannot take chances on guaranteed failures like New Gods right now.
I have some hope that the Flash movie will fix things. Its supposed to be great and the Flash is always that character than can change entire universes and timelines...
hopefully he gets recast though lol
When Man of Steel premiered, I thought DCEU was starting a universe that could compete with the MCU. But when I saw the trailer of Batman V Superman, I thought that jumping immediately into the Death of Superman and The Dark Knight Returns was too rushed. They should've introduced the hero step by step rather than immediately rushing into things. The MCU did it step by step and that's why the Avengers was such a success. With the failure of Suicide Squad (2016) and Joss Whedon's Justice League, the DCEU was doomed.
Still, while the DCEU was struggling in cinema, DC was thriving on television with the Arrowverse, Young Justice, Titans, Watchmen, Doom Patrol, and Peacemaker.
Wanted to send a note regarding your sponsor for Shortbox. The Santa Clara Convention Center in the Santa Clara/ Silicon Valley not LA. Great vid though!
The problem is Zach Snyder's only good movie is 300. Giving him the keys to the kingdom after Watchmen was a terrible idea that blew up in WB's face.
What about 'Dawn of the Dead' ???
@@TimeisReel George A Romero's original is better in every way.
@@Gzilla313 Agreed, but I did enjoy Zach's version. I really think he is a Horror Director at Heart. I think he is a good visual director, just keep his ass from the "Script"
@@TimeisReel agreed, any single frame of a Snyder film is a work of art. He has very strong skills in shot composition, but he's very weak on story telling. That's why 300 is so good, it's minimal story and just a series of comic book action shots glamorized for the big screen.
@@Gzilla313 Exactly Steve, 300 was good because he followed Frank Miller's Story and that movie was 90% Action anyway. I like Zach as a ... Director. Just keep him away from your Script.
i think modeling him after the new 52 did him no favors
They should have used the story arc from the animated movies for the live action verse. From flashpoint paradox all the way thru justice league apocalypse war. Adding under the red hood and assault on Arkham would have been cool too, maybe some others pre flashpoint animated movies as well, gl first flight, jl crisis on infinite earths, jl doom
So many directions they could've gone. Taking elements from their animated stuff would've been great. They could've also dine what Batman: Brave and the Bold show did giving us 2 adventures in one. Pick up with them already on an adventure, so we can watch them work. Then we actually get into the main story. This would help establish their world faster as well.
Too focused on profit and missed out on significant sums of money. The WB could have had it all, but instead adopted a narrow minded, short term approach.
Love the hoodie my guy👌🏾🙏🏽
Man you just said what I believe in much better way. Great job
Great video
I'll never forget the super computer with super secret information that is hidden behind Lex Luthor's kitchen.
Ppl don't know that studios usually take only 60% of the domestic box office and 40% of the international box office, which is the theatrical revenue. For example Dr strange MoM made $950+ milllion at the box office but its theatrical revenue is 440 million. The total cost with marketing included is 350m, which means it made only 90 million profit theatrically. It's not as simple as "p/L = box office - cost". A lot of movies likely made way less money than you think, or just didn't even make a profit despite making 3x their production budget.
11:40 😂✌
When Snyder's daughter committed suicide and the movie came out I remember the internet being like "owe this is why Snyder daughter killed herself" like who can do a movie when losing their daughter. Autumn snyder loss her fight, and for those struggling just know you aren't alone
Bro you are just speaking straight up facts like I agree with you , 100 percent !!!
5:30 From the investors calls being public and you can listen'read the transcripts, The former head of WB would NOT allow ANY alterations to release dates of the movies leading up to JL, because of the sale to AT&T and their bonuses/ stock options there in AND the new leadership said the same thing prior to the sale to Discovery. . . ARGH lol
And given the egos of Snyder, Wheedon, and others via twitter/instagram/interviews with publications, it confirms and in Snyder's case he doubled down on them. AND Wheedon still thinks he did nothing wrong with his shows behind the scenes, and movies behind the scene shinanegans! o-0 We should all care about the omelets he made, not how many egg crack/lost eggs it took to get there.
The problem was giving Snyder the chance to make a movie. Especially a super hero movie.
After he got canned they started producing some good stuff. Birds of Prey and The Suicide Squad were better than anything Marvel had at the time. Aquaman was shlocky fun and Shazam was a modestly interesting film.
Now that Gunn is in charge though I am super excited.
Entire thing sums up in that Iron Man scene “Tony Stark build this in a cave with a bunch of scraps!”. 😂
As a fellow geek I love your rambling Before I didn't know exactly what was the problem with dceu was but thanks to you I know now
Starting from 20:00, everyone please pay attention to all the simple questions he's asking and then you'd realise that this mess is all on WB. None of this would would have happened without the approval of WB and its execs.
Yeah the DCEU and any discussion around it always seem exhausting😂 so many problems. Greedy higher ups, an impractical vision for the time(Snyder's stuff would've been fine I think if it wasn't for a forced universe or as an Elseworlds or just after an actual adaptation of characters true to their characters first), and trying to catchup to the MCU without any of the groundwork. And all of that exhaustion with the films being inconsistent, hodge podged together and the characters being edgy just got amplified by Snyder fans refusing to acknowledge the extremely obvious problems by gatekeeping and so forth. It's actually ironic because with WB desperate to break a billion they need as many people wanting to see these movies and Snyder fans alienating other DC fans more just shot themselves in the foot given they want more Snyder stuff still. I don't completely blame Snyder fans, cuz I know it was popular back then to trash them, but people on both sides just made it horrible to be a DC fan for a while and at least late last year it was mostly Snyder fans doing this.
I have no clue if Gunn's DCU will succeed, it completely depends on how the first movies are(if they're actually good on their own, it might actually pull people in) and if WB magically got less greedy. If they don't break that billion and that's still the goal then we'll never get a good DC universe. Larfleeze would've killed any possibility😂 I hope it does succeed tho, I've never personally liked Snyder's work(it always feels like he doesn't understand what makes characters great or actively wants to avoid them in favor of his vision) and Gunn's work have always been fun, vibrant and with TSS is actually reminiscent of what makes the SS good. The characters we've heard about plans for really excite me so I hope it turns out well, but we'll see.
Thank you so much for this. I have thought all of this for a while. I’m almost 50 and I’m pissed I never had a Superman to follow besides Reeves. Sadly DC will never be Marvel. I wonder if these billion dollar companies ever thought of asking fans like you.
Cool sweater man
Funny thing that I literally have 0 proof of this right now but I remember seeing on wikipedia that there were talks of making an Avengers movie around the time before Iron Man came out. I saw it posted after playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance when I first REALLY got into comic books
You've got the math wrong on making money and a profit on a movie. If the movie makes a billion in box office WB gets about half for domestic, and various amounts internationally. Thats why a 400m movie making 700m is a failure. They might break even by selling the license on streaming but spending 400,000,000 dollars to NOT make money should bankrupt a company let alone that happening again and again.
The early DC movies were standalone stories with no crossovers but Superman was actually referenced in that terrible George Clooney Batman movie 😂
I noticed the very nice Kaine figure in the background.
Should have just had a Superman, Batman, WW, Flash, Aquaman etc movie. Then when they were established do Justice League and milk different crossovers. This is what Marvel did a decade ago. Establish your blockbuster characters, THEN have them collaborate on the big stream. I can't believe DC botched this.
Excellent video and many good points. I think at its core, the main issue was tryna run before it can walk. They tried create a giant interconnected franchise without building it up (individual stories for the heroes that eventually crossover). I also wasn’t a fan of an older batman while Superman is young. I like it better when they’re both the same age and starting out together and over time forming a brotherhood (I also am not really a fan of tryna make Batman and Superman fight each other becuz one doesn’t trust the other). Also, not a fan of Snyderman or Snyderbat. If you do more power to you I guess😂 but not my thing. I hope James Gunn can do a better job
Edit: I read somewhere Snyder wanted to make WW and the amazons Kryptonian, is that true? Becuz if it is, THANK GOD wb ended his run when they did, bro did enough as it is.
The DCEU should have been the DCAU in live action, hopefully the DCU will be that
As it should
I haven’t even seen those shows yet (for some reason, seriously, what the frick am I doing) and I already know that those were a million times better at doing what the DCEU was trying and failing so hard to do
That's not quite accurate Benny. WB have wanted to crossover Batmman and Superman for DECADES going back to Superman Returrns. It was WB idea to include Batman into the Superman "Sequel"...then they cut 30 minutes of the plot.
I’m a giant Snyderverse fan and think ZSJL is one of the greatest DC films ever made. But I’m honestly thankful for Gunn taking over DC, mainly for the fact that it seems like all of the DCU will finally be on the same page.
I want to see a DC universe with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and the JL front and centre.
I've always said a similar thing that the biggest problem with DC is WB who make stupid decisions left and right, I mean sure the movies themselves even without interference still have their own flaws and issues, but still they just made it much worse. They're seriously one of the dumbest companies out there
SS would've done better had WB stick to the gritty tone of the first trailer and allowed Ayer's vision. WB shot theirselves in the foot by trying to be Marvel and not understanding DC characters and the fans.
Far as the DCEU goes. After Snyder departure none of the movies felt linked
Yea you pretty much nailed it with almost everything. And I think it can be traced back to the big problem being WB themselves. They’re the ones that hired Snyder to be their commander and chief of the entire universe plus director of certain movies at the same time, instead of hiring a Kevin Feige-like producer that loves and respects the comics. WB were the ones that wanted Snyder to fast track to a big team up to try and catch up to the MCU instead of taking their time and building the right way or at least a better way. WB are the ones that used the opportunity of Snyder’s family tragedy to change his movie (Justice League) because of BvS not performing the way they wanted. WB are the ones that didn’t want Ayer’s original darker Suicide Squad movie and also hired a trailer company to edit the movie while locking Ayer out of the editing room. And speaking of that, that’s another movie that was rushed and came out too soon. We shouldn’t have gotten a Suicide Squad movie before we even got to see these villains BE villains first. And Benny also raised a good point about the marketing of the JL film. Them not including Superman and trying to make us believe he isn’t in the movie is a result of them using the DoS story and killing him too early. They didn’t want to “spoil” that he was coming back to life. They didn’t know how to market the movie because of what happened in their previous movie. They basically set themselves up for failure. But tbf I actually did like the poster and the words with their logos lol. I thought that was actually a cool idea 🤷🏽♂️ And I know this post is already long but I’d like to make a point here. Including Batman in the next DCEU movie after Superman wasn’t even the problem for me. In fact, I thought it was a brilliant idea and an inventive way of introducing a new Batman into a larger universe. And it could’ve worked and made over a billion dollars had they done it correctly/differently. The problem was 1.) making Batman much older and withered and making him blatantly kill criminals, essentially taking away the biggest attribute that makes Batman, Batman. Not to mention 2.) they should’ve held off on the inclusion of Wonder Woman (she was a highlight of the movie) and the JL cameos. And of course, 3.) they should’ve held off on using Doomsday and killing Superman until MUCH later at least. So basically I blame WB and their greed. Hopefully James Gunn does a better job with the properties but I’m just not entirely sure about the whole thing rn. Time will tell.
This is what dc should have done
Superman
Batman
Wonder woman
Green lantern
The flash
Aquaman
Cyborg
Justice league
And that's why the comics will always triumph over the these movies.
Great video and essay as always Benny , The reason fans where not connecting as well with the modern DC Films from the DCEU was the storyline where inconstant from film to film darker stories , action scenes that sometimes where hard to follow and characters written sometimes way out of character. And story telling decisions that did not make sense for one reason or another. I am not saying the DC Films in the modern era did not have it's fair share of great moments in the DCEU they did the No Man's Land scene in Wonder Woman (2017) it still a stand out moment from that universe and one I love a lot. But for me DCTV issues in all with the shows where so much better even comparable to the MCU in some cases. DCTV / The Arrowverse has so many iconic moments and scenes from the crossovers and shows within the episodes. DCTV in the modern era always was consistent through out the 10 years of the Arrowverse. Sure you had bad episodes and seasons but they always kept their universe consistent throughout up through Crisis On Infinite Earths. And I loved it. But why has the DCEU other than Wonder Woman (2017) , Shazam! , Aquaman and The Suicide Squad failed well for me it's not enough faith in the characters and not enough trust in what they where making from film to film. Superman for me has not been done well on film since Superman 2 in 1981 and while I do enjoy some of the DCEU films like Wonder Woman (2017) , Aquaman and Shazam! the other films very hit and miss and while I have liked most of DCTV both from The CW and HBO Max those shows where not always the best of quality the exceptions being Stargirl and Superman & Lois where have been the best DCTV Shows since some of the best seasons of Smallville. So the DCU under James Gunn and Peter Safran with DC Studios will all these projects be good to great? Hard to say right now until we get concept artwork , trailers , costume looks and we see the content that is presented to us but I am for the 1st time in a long time very optimistic for DC Comics content. So hope it is good and lets see what happens.
I loved the Luffy Shirt 😊
20:30 the rock only does movies if he wins every single altercation
If you ask me the solo film route might be the best bet for DC.
Not everyone wants to watch a DCEU film but everyone wants to watch a good batman film or a good superman film. Must build your foundation before creating an avengers level film, then slow down before you make an endgame film so you can surpass it .
Exactly, need to lay out your foundation and make people care about the characters
Sir! I can not praise you enough for making a very well thought out, fact based piece on the issues with the DCEU, and not just another Snyder hate fest. I love the DCEU and agreed with everything you said. Now, I'm just waiting on the Flash and the new DCU. Excellent video!
I wonder what his thoughts on the James Gunn DCU would be now with The Flash not doing well and the news of WW3 being in the works as part of the DCU since Gunn confirmed that Blue Beetle would be the first hero/entry of the DCU
got a flash ad before the video started..
werent we getting justice society movie i remember they said something about that at the end of the 2nd shazam movie
I'm hoping with how they ended the DCEU with "The Flash" movie. That they'll maybe restart the DCEU with James Gunn at the helm of it after now leaving Marvel after "Guardians Volume 3" He knows how to make interesting stories that look good so hopefully he can apply that to the DCEU. Damn said DCEU too many times but you get what i mean lol.
I’m just happy to see Benny wearing One Piece
Would Love if You Did a Problem With Superboy Kon El because there are manyyyy. Favorite hero but jesus they need to fix em
Your short's logo would make a great tattoo
I mean I agree with ya Benny, WB's greed is the major problem with this and everything else was just another factor for this cesspool. I would like to see a problem with Ghost Rider or Ms. Marvel(Kamala Khan) if those interested you at all.
first off,
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE DCEU, THERE NEVER HAS BEEN EITHER, its a thing invented ENTIRELY by fans, no one making the movies has EVER used that word to describe their project nor any other warner bros project.
the CLOSEST is the "snyderverse" stuff that snyder tried to create and promote, that took off for a bit, but eventually fizzled out and went nowhere.
That's a very superficial analysis of the whole thing.
-They spoiled Doomsday and WW in the trailer
-They cut 30 minutes off of BvS
-Announced there'll be an extended cut of the movie before the movie even hit the theatres
-While BvS had a lot, the entire slate more than made up for it.
We had : Batman Solo movie, Cyborg, Flash (With Cyborg and Batman trying to exonerate Barry's father), Atom, Gotham City Sirens, Green Lanter.
-Geoff Jones slithering in the shadow.
-Snyder's WW plan involved WW in Crimean War setting. Patty changed it to World War 1. Geoff Jones changed the entire 3rd act.
-WB letting every critic unnerve them to the point they threw their entire announced slate out.
-Geoff Jones completely siezing control of the DCEU.
-WB not standing by its directors & creators.
-Rushing the JL release to the end of the year 2017 when it wasn't even the original timeline because the executives wanted bonuses (Same thing is happening this year in case you're not keeping up)
-Releasing the Snyder Cut in 2021, letting everyone know how royally they screwed up.
-Ayer is still fighting for his cut which, in his own words, received Scissorhands treatment.
ZSJL released 2 years ago. Not sure how you didn't even mention that.
Keemstar when did you grow your hair out and start a comic book channel?
Why did Benny call the unmade Justice League: Mortal movie as "terrible" in 4:43? I've read the script to that movie and it was fantastic.
Yeah WB is the problem that the DCEU is having. Because all they care about is money, which is the problem with some of these other companies nowadays. They don't even want to try to make a good cast of characters and a compelling story, they just want money. Now what WB and Marvel or Disney(whose ever is in at this point😒) needs to do now is get some comic book writters to help them out or read the damn comic books themselves so they can make a actual good movie. We don't need something that's too dark nor too comedic because it's not gonna work out. If they actually stop to make a movie that follows the comics word for word, chapter to chapter, and volume to volume, then everyone will be happy. We'll get a proper good movie and WB along with Marvel/Disney will get the money that they want.
Good point on The Rock👍 How did it get there...?
I'd argue that if they'd tried to properly build up to JL by using solo films as films and indirectly as marketing for crossover films to come later so the issue was more them rushing the build up than them trying to build up a universe after seeing marvel's success.
Snyder never wanted to dl a universe he wanted to start and do a pentalogy(5 movies)with superman as the mc. Its sad to see people hate snyder that hard while they suck wbs balls they were the actual villains you dont have to like snyder to realize this