when u have a minute of time, and a spare practice teaching barrel..i would definatly like to see it installed , with the full effect on how to use this shim..how to adjust to get it the right done, what a great video !!! truly awesome stuff we are seeing these days!
Can you make a video showing how this timing shim maintains alignment at its extended settings? It seems like only a portion of that shim would make contact on the inside mechanism and it may throw off the alignment on your suppressor. I've had a very similar experience with a shim set where the thickest shim was slightly thicker on one side than the other, causing the suppressor to fail the gauge test.
It's a set of staircase ledge cuts opposing each other. Each "turn to notch" for as many notches as go around the clockface. The notches have to be cut wide enough to support the linear load while enabling the "turn to notch" feature. It's similar to how bicycle hubs use engagement cogs. Google "DT Swiss 350 engagement" for a somewhat similar example of how it's done in a bike hub. Not exact, the 350 cogs are not staircase cut, but they are opposition cut.
@@seanoneil277sounds like a lot of room for tolerance stacking and a device that is uneededly large, minimizing thread engagement. Hard pass. Surprised an armorer would endorse this pointless accessory.
@@user-fe3hn8oj8o Definitely would need tight QA/QC. And materials which retain accurate ledge dimensions over use & time. If done well, it could be useful -- though rather complex/expensive.
Tried one and it required the last increment to achieve timing of the Forward Controls Brake. Using the Geiselle Suppressor Alignment Gage, it showed to be misaligned. Removed and rotated device and measured again to have the misalignment follow the NVTS. Used traditional shims and got perfect alignment. Will have to try again on another barrel/device.
There would be an inherent precision limit based upon the width of each stairstep ledge. I'm sure the ledges are much, much wider than your thinnest shim. I don't think this is for BR shooters running lead sleds trying to max the machine regulation. It's for people who swap barrels/muzzle devices frequently, I'm guessing. For that purpose it's fantastic. For a shoulder-fired rifle, most users are not dead perfect in their presentation and other shooting mechanics. Many would benefit from a 1:00 (if righty) or 11:00 (if lefty) timing to offset their shooting mechanics that will generate a recoil drift tendency the off-timing opposes. Jerry Miculek has talked about this in a video before. So from that POV, the "inaccuracy" of the timing on this FCD/SwissMachine device is not an issue. Clock it slightly past dead center high noon for righties, slightly before high noon for lefties. (ignore those time stamps, they were not meant to refer to Chad's video at those times. They are clockface timings for the muzzle device)
@@seanoneil277 Different misalignment. The timing or rotational alignment was fine at the last increment. The misalignment noted here is perhaps described as yaw. The alignment rod is snug to the bore of the rifle and touched the inside of the muzzle brake indicating that a bullet would likely strike the suppressor when attached to the brake. Since a traditional shim corrected the issue, I suspect that the NVTS did not stack square when at the last step of its adjustment. I will try again some day, but I don’t build guns for my use as often as customer guns and the only customer I saw with one was anxious to try it himself so no data point there yet.
@@GunsmithSid Sorry I didn't think about yaw deviation. That's a problem! Projectile strike, no es bueno. Sounds like there are un-true ends or un-true ladder steps within. Tough to get as many ladder steps as there are, all true. But that's what precision mills are supposed to handle, eh?
I hate it when I'm at the workbench at the gunshop and I set a dead air shim on the bench for a minute... And then when I go to pick it backup, I have to try to differentiate it from the twenty or so other shims discarded on the bench! Another thing, when it comes to timing muzzle devices, OCD is real.
Am I the only one that has issues with the Accu-Washers? Seems like half the time I can't find one that allows me to get properly timed with the right torque value. Go up or down one size and it's either to little or not enough.
How thick is this product at its minimum setting? My concern is the loss of thread engagement between the barrel and muzzle device, over say a traditional washer setup.
Yeah I’m still confused at how functional these actually are. Some people brought up some great questions in the comments. Does it come with 3? I noticed what looked like 3 of different size on the table.
Is there a lock wash method to for securing a muzzle device? I’ve heard tales of one but I am curious and a few times a almost went to the hardware store to get one lol
Thanks Chad. As a problem solved, this is a nice bit of machining. But the pragmatist in me asks, what's wrong with crush washers? Have you seen issues with crush washers -- is there a SOTAR vid about them I haven't watched? I agree about the shims stacking oddly and looking like crap, I have one MD shimmed and it looks like a sloppy stack of pancakes. I try to not obsess too much about that aesthetics side though. My other uppers use crush washers for timing.
Your question doesn’t make any sense then. This NVTS would be fine to use on non suppressor mount muzzle devices but a crush washer is a much cheaper and easier solution. Timing shims are required for suppressor host muzzle devices that require timing and a specified torque range and that you Rocksett the MD in place so it doesn’t back off when you need or remove the suppressor.
@@brianfhorton Your fiirst paragraph, that summarized the POV I had above. In other words, using this timing device is overkill (versus a crush washer) for mounting a brake or flash hider. The imagined precision required for a brake or flash hider timing isn't there.
when u have a minute of time, and a spare practice teaching barrel..i would definatly like to see it installed , with the full effect on how to use this shim..how to adjust to get it the right done, what a great video !!! truly awesome stuff we are seeing these days!
Can you make a video showing how this timing shim maintains alignment at its extended settings? It seems like only a portion of that shim would make contact on the inside mechanism and it may throw off the alignment on your suppressor. I've had a very similar experience with a shim set where the thickest shim was slightly thicker on one side than the other, causing the suppressor to fail the gauge test.
It's a set of staircase ledge cuts opposing each other. Each "turn to notch" for as many notches as go around the clockface. The notches have to be cut wide enough to support the linear load while enabling the "turn to notch" feature.
It's similar to how bicycle hubs use engagement cogs. Google "DT Swiss 350 engagement" for a somewhat similar example of how it's done in a bike hub. Not exact, the 350 cogs are not staircase cut, but they are opposition cut.
@@seanoneil277sounds like a lot of room for tolerance stacking and a device that is uneededly large, minimizing thread engagement. Hard pass. Surprised an armorer would endorse this pointless accessory.
@@user-fe3hn8oj8o Definitely would need tight QA/QC. And materials which retain accurate ledge dimensions over use & time. If done well, it could be useful -- though rather complex/expensive.
I use Surefire washers, clean look on even old A2 birdcage.
Tried one and it required the last increment to achieve timing of the Forward Controls Brake. Using the Geiselle Suppressor Alignment Gage, it showed to be misaligned. Removed and rotated device and measured again to have the misalignment follow the NVTS. Used traditional shims and got perfect alignment.
Will have to try again on another barrel/device.
There would be an inherent precision limit based upon the width of each stairstep ledge. I'm sure the ledges are much, much wider than your thinnest shim. I don't think this is for BR shooters running lead sleds trying to max the machine regulation. It's for people who swap barrels/muzzle devices frequently, I'm guessing. For that purpose it's fantastic.
For a shoulder-fired rifle, most users are not dead perfect in their presentation and other shooting mechanics. Many would benefit from a 1:00 (if righty) or 11:00 (if lefty) timing to offset their shooting mechanics that will generate a recoil drift tendency the off-timing opposes. Jerry Miculek has talked about this in a video before. So from that POV, the "inaccuracy" of the timing on this FCD/SwissMachine device is not an issue. Clock it slightly past dead center high noon for righties, slightly before high noon for lefties.
(ignore those time stamps, they were not meant to refer to Chad's video at those times. They are clockface timings for the muzzle device)
@@seanoneil277 Different misalignment. The timing or rotational alignment was fine at the last increment.
The misalignment noted here is perhaps described as yaw. The alignment rod is snug to the bore of the rifle and touched the inside of the muzzle brake indicating that a bullet would likely strike the suppressor when attached to the brake. Since a traditional shim corrected the issue, I suspect that the NVTS did not stack square when at the last step of its adjustment. I will try again some day, but I don’t build guns for my use as often as customer guns and the only customer I saw with one was anxious to try it himself so no data point there yet.
@@GunsmithSid Sorry I didn't think about yaw deviation. That's a problem! Projectile strike, no es bueno. Sounds like there are un-true ends or un-true ladder steps within. Tough to get as many ladder steps as there are, all true. But that's what precision mills are supposed to handle, eh?
Fascinating product. Thanks for sharing it.
I hate it when I'm at the workbench at the gunshop and I set a dead air shim on the bench for a minute... And then when I go to pick it backup, I have to try to differentiate it from the twenty or so other shims discarded on the bench!
Another thing, when it comes to timing muzzle devices, OCD is real.
Am I the only one that has issues with the Accu-Washers? Seems like half the time I can't find one that allows me to get properly timed with the right torque value. Go up or down one size and it's either to little or not enough.
The lack of a chamfer on the Accu Washer may be the problem.
Good information.
How thick is this product at its minimum setting? My concern is the loss of thread engagement between the barrel and muzzle device, over say a traditional washer setup.
I just want one of those pencils, my own little stick of truth.
Yeah I’m still confused at how functional these actually are. Some people brought up some great questions in the comments.
Does it come with 3? I noticed what looked like 3 of different size on the table.
I couldn't get this to work. It would time either to far or to short couldn't get it to 12. Went back to double crush washers
Thank you Sir
Just ordered 5 of these. Used once and never will i use shims again...
Is there a lock wash method to for securing a muzzle device? I’ve heard tales of one but I am curious and a few times a almost went to the hardware store to get one lol
👏🏻
Thanks Chad. As a problem solved, this is a nice bit of machining. But the pragmatist in me asks, what's wrong with crush washers? Have you seen issues with crush washers -- is there a SOTAR vid about them I haven't watched?
I agree about the shims stacking oddly and looking like crap, I have one MD shimmed and it looks like a sloppy stack of pancakes. I try to not obsess too much about that aesthetics side though. My other uppers use crush washers for timing.
Not supposed to use crush washers with a suppressor.
@@travisoverholser8194 Right, but that wasn't what I asked.
Your question doesn’t make any sense then. This NVTS would be fine to use on non suppressor mount muzzle devices but a crush washer is a much cheaper and easier solution.
Timing shims are required for suppressor host muzzle devices that require timing and a specified torque range and that you Rocksett the MD in place so it doesn’t back off when you need or remove the suppressor.
@@brianfhorton Your fiirst paragraph, that summarized the POV I had above.
In other words, using this timing device is overkill (versus a crush washer) for mounting a brake or flash hider. The imagined precision required for a brake or flash hider timing isn't there.
Nice
That is PHAT
Neat.
Does anyone make a shim or shim set for with a 0.5" ID and 0.625" OD?
You could type that exact question in a search engine and get many answers, look at Grainger Supply or MCD if you really need a helping hand here.
My stupid self thought they were crush washers from the thumbnail.
Edit- Glad I stuck around though, it wasn't just a regular crush washer.
That's genius
oh oh maaaan. I almost downvoted because I didn't get to see Rebel! But, it's ok. He must be on Pawtrol.