3D Printer Heat Breaks Compared | All-Metal, Bi-Metal, or PTFE-lined? V6-style Hot-Ends
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- UPDATE: Just so you're aware, some of this information is out-of-date. Keep in mind, I made this video over a year ago, and was only a couple months into 3D printing in general. It's just a generalized opinion and shouldn't be taken as serious advice.
I've learned a LOT since January of 2023, so I'll be posting an update with my current thoughts on the subject (I now use an all-metal heat-break, but NOT the "bi-metal" variety).
It's still a fun video and I had a lot of fun making it, with the animations etc...
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This video should apply to most 3D printers, especially the E3D V6 and similar hot-ends -- any style where you have a choice between an All Metal (or Bi-Metal) and PTFE-lined heat break. Stick to the end for an issue specific to the Bi-Metal version that cost me time and money, and almost ruined Christmas!
This is also partly a follow-up to my video, where I created (and shared!) an adaptor, allowing the installation of a V6-style hot-end on the Monoprice MP10 aka Malyan MA10 3D Printer.
▶ • Monoprice MP10 V6-Hote...
But it is mostly general observations I've made using the "all metal" and "bi-metal" heat breaks. I kept getting jams, and through the process of elimination, I found myself going back to a standard PTFE-lined heat break.
Watch the full video for all of the details as to why this may be a better choice in some (if not most) circumstances.
All animations and 3D graphics were created using OpenSCAD - I use it to create all of my STL models, and recently discovered that it's quite nice for just creating animations and models to use in videos. Let me know what you think of this style in the comments!
▶ openscad.org/
(I'm thinking of actually printing an over-sized V6 hot-end assembly cross-section... I think I have all the right colors on hand... might make for a nice prop, like the things you find in a doctor's office 😅)
Below are some Amazon Affiliate links. Using my links does NOT add to your cost, but helps me earn a tiny commission which helps me keep this channel going (any prices are USD at the time of publishing):
** These items are specifically for V6-style hot-end assemblies **
As I mention at the end of the video -- stock up on spare parts!
10-Pack of PTFE-lined Heat Breaks ($11.39):
▶ amzn.to/3X9ZRLX
5-Pack of Heater Blocks ($8.79):
▶ amzn.to/3QCqmXG
3-Pack Aluminum Heat Sinks (Collet/Clip style):
▶ amzn.to/3ZCb3Ta
5-Pack of Collets & Clips:
▶ amzn.to/3iDnbTg
3-Pack Aluminum Heat Sinks (threaded top style):
▶ amzn.to/3iHMYcL
10-Pack of Threaded-style Collets:
▶ amzn.to/3XwkQIm
Capricorn Premium PTFE tubing:
▶ amzn.to/3WfBKtH
20-Pack 0.4mm V6 brass nozzles ($8.99):
▶ amzn.to/3iz1a8a
The whole V6 kit (fans, heat sink, etc) for 12-Volt (used in previous video):
▶ amzn.to/3iDjywx
(NOTE - this comes with a bi-metal heat break 😒, but is NOT assembled so you can use the $1 PTFE version in its place)
The HDX boxes I use to organize these parts:
▶ amzn.to/3GzZZgy (shown at end of video)
- And -
▶ amzn.to/3iEYztg (for smaller parts like screws etc)
Just a shout-out to Printables.com -- you can find good parts organizers there as well that you print yourself 😃 I have a couple models on there, including the MP10-to-V6 adaptor. See previous video or search for Justin Nelson...
ANYTHING ELSE you might want to search out on Amazon, please start with my link:
▶ amzn.to/3GFzx59
Find me on the socials (except for the bird/billionaire one): @JustinNelsonsProjects
If you **REALLY** want to help me produce more frequent, high-quality content, consider becoming a Patron:
▶ / justinnelsonsprojects
Thanks so much for watching (and reading!)
If anyone wants to reach out about a product review or sponsorship, email justin at justinnelsonsprojects dot com (please don't email with questions -- use the Comments section for that kind of thing!)
Now for the CZcams robot uprising to know where my "chapters" are -- Humans not required to read further 😂
0:00 - Introduction (DUH)
0:41 - Standardized = Good!
1:10 - Reasons I thought I needed All/Bi-Metal Heat-break
1:43 - A bit about PTFE (Teflon™)
2:40 - Brief Tangent about Teflon Cookware
2:52 - Advantages of PTFE vs Metal
3:57 - Super Scientific Comparison
4:46 - Where and How Jams/Clogs Occur (my theories anyway)
6:03 - Summary of my Conclusions
6:27 - Teaser on Next 3D Video (Wiring!)
6:57 - How a Broken Nozzle almost ruined Christmas!
7:06 - Why Bi-Metal is even worse than just All-Metal
7:18 - Stock MP10 Hot-End Saved Christmas (But buy/keep SPARE PARTS!!!)
Thanks for reading way the heck down here! Questions, comments, etc - please leave below, and consider a Sub and a Like! - Věda a technologie
Just so everyone is aware, some of this information is out-of-date. Keep in mind, I made this video over a year ago, and was only a couple months into 3D printing in general. It's just a generalized *opinion* and shouldn't be taken as serious advice.
I've learned a LOT since January of 2023, so I'll be posting an update with my current thoughts on the subject (I now use an all-metal heat-break, but NOT the "bi-metal" variety).
Your microphone is way too small.
🤣
Good overview. V6 is such a nice simple reliable standard for printing.
Agreed - that's why I chose it! I think it gives the best balance of performance, and parts availability including modifications... open-source hardware at its finest!
@@JustinNelsonsProjects I'm modifying my Ender 3 V2 Neo with the whole and inexpensive Kingroon Titan + E3D V6 direct drive inexpensive and effective!
And I can use MK8 nozzles with the 16x16x12 heat block.
Good info to consider... Thanks
I am running an old direct drive with a PTFE lined heatbreak, where PTFE butts directly into the nozzle.
After a relatively short time trying to print ABS, the PTFE liner was browned at the bottom and needed to be replaced. I have replaced it a number of times. It's a little disconcerting. I would rather not breathe broken down PTFE. My most printed materials are PETG and HIPS, both do a lot better with less damage to PTFE than ABS, but it still gets damaged. I am not fond of ABS, but maybe next round, if i ever get around to build a printer with XY-stationary bed (CoreXY or dual rod pull Cartesian, not decided), also enclosed and air-filtered, maybe ABS again :D
I am preparing stainless and titanium options to upgrade to, but i need to change the carriage, part cooling and probe mounts for that to work, because my throat is long, and alternative throats are shorter, and all these dimensions need to reaccount.
Indeed i don't trust the quality of bimetal units.
At least the machining quality of Kingroon titanium unit feels excellent. Probably a good thing because what do you even do if it's not well made :D
Not the case with a stainless one i got before, the machining was bad. But simple solution, attached a toothpick into a rotary tool, put metal polishing compound on it, and drove it through for a while. Now it feels good and reflects light through the inside in perfect lines. I don't remember whether i pre bored it with a normal drill before to knock off the worst of the ridges, maybe i did to help along before polishing, but yeah it feels and looks reassuring now.
Pro tip, install your hotend components with HY410 heatsink compound. It is fairly high temperature stable much more so than others, and when you disassemble, parts stop fighting you. I also tried brake copper grease anti-seize from a major brand before, but it actually emitted plumes of black smoke right away :D
Great video, thanks man
Awesome stuff!
I used an all metal V6 clone for 4 years, printing PLA and PetG. Never had a clog.
Be sure the heat break is tightly screwed into the heat sink, or it will get hot and jam. Even better, apply some of the white heat sink compound to the threads. Once in a while, do a cold pull to clear any burnt residue from the nozzle.
Yes, I've actually had a change of heart on all-metal heat breaks since that video went up... I do still not care for the "bi-metal" ones, never saw any benefit there, and have had the two metal pieces literally separate (getting half stuck in the heater block, half in the heat sink)...
@@JustinNelsonsProjects I guess I should avoid them. I recently lowered my fan to half speed to lower the noise. No problem so far.
@@propheteyebert7063 with PLA you can probably get away with half fan speed, but with higher temp materials, I would definitely recommend running the fan, the heatsink fan that is, at full speed. As far as the parts cooling fan, I would run that at a lower speed with the higher temp materials. I wasn't sure which fan you were talking about...
Just to clarify, fan speeds and other parameters are going to depend totally on the printer. So I would recommend experimenting, and finding what works best for your particular setup. There is no one right answer when it comes to 3D printing unfortunately...
Yes yes yes. That's why I reverted from bi-metal to PTFE lining. The new PETG Tough (stronger than PETG) is a lot sticky and got clogs. With PTFE this material flows like a charm.
please dont print at petg temps with a ptfe hotend, especially if you have pets or kids
@@RazorSh4rk I open windows to change air every time I print, not only PETG.
@@RazorSh4rk I've printed till 250°C PETG tough without problem, just reduced maintenance time and saw the PTFE tube was not so burnt.
Anyway I switched to a bimetal hotend and I'm trying it. I see it's good too, but needs different retraction values. PTFE makes printing "cold" material more easy.
Great video, you must have spent lots of time on editing !
Thanks! I decided to have a little fun with this one, with motion tracking and 3D animation using OpenSCAD :) Glad at least one person liked the effort!
awesome!
I've had the reverse experience🤷♂. PETG 230-280c never an issue with all metal break. PTFE was constant problems.
Honestly, my stance has changed somewhat on this subject ever since I went to a direct drive extruder... I've got an update video coming up, specifically about the monoprice mp10 printer, even though I know it's pretty dated at this point...
@@JustinNelsonsProjects Yeah it totally varies in configuration. I've been researching this topic; one could say there are two types of heatcreep, one caused by high retraction(s), the other cause by poor hotend cooling/separation.
I think, people will find PTFE style good for printing colder materials if dialed in.
@@Ottobawt it definitely depends on configuration. With direct drive I actually prefer all metal. With a Bowden set up it seems the PTFE works better but of course you can only print PLA and maybe PETG...
@@Ottobawt regarding heat creep, one thing I discovered that works really well and I will cover in a future video, adding a little bit of thermal paste to the threads that go into the heat sink, and definitely not the threads that go into the heater block, seems to help a lot. Just personal experience from my crappy monoprice printer but I also have a pair of Tina2 printers and that method seems to work pretty well there as well...
Can I get a bit of help with an upgrade I want to do? So the cr-10v2 has a v6 style hotend but the tubing goes all the way to the nozzle, I want to switch to a all metal hotend and no ptfe tube in the middle or at least none against the nozzle, so where I’m stuck at is how do I go about this? Is it just buy and place into the existing shroud? Or do I need to print a new shroud? I have no idea how to put on a new shroud lol
If it is a true V6 style hot end, you should be able to disassemble the heater block and the heatsink, and all you have to change out is the heat break itself. The longer M7 threaded end, threads into the heat sink, the other end threads into the heater block..
I'm not familiar with the cr-10 myself, but when you take the fan shrouds etc off, if it looks like what you see in the video then it is simply that middle piece that you have to change.
You still will be running PTFE tubing into the heatsink and it will meet up with the heat break, however it will not go all the way down into the hot zone.
Again I do not know much about other printers, I myself am relatively new to 3D printing. But if it is a true V6 clone, then simply replacing that small double threaded piece, which is the actual heatbreak, should do the trick. I recommend putting a little bit of thermal grease on the threads going into the heat sink, and also on the threads of the nozzle. But do not put thermal compound on the other end of the heat break, because that is the part where you actually do not want heat conduction.
If anyone else out there has a CR 10 and can help clarify, please chime in...
Just to clarify, the heat break is just that one little piece. It is not the entire hot end, and at least on my V6 clones I can easily switch between all metal or PTFE lined without changing any other parts...
Good to know but I only use PETG which I have to print at 245 celsius and the Teflon inside the normal heatbreak does not last for more than 3 months so I have to replace when some printing fails, always a waste of material and time. I will try with the bimetal with a little drop of mineral oil as someone suggested in a youtube video. 3d printing still a problem with hotends, I remember when cars had the same problem with heating and radiators until one day someone invented the closed water circuits, now you don´t see cars vaporizing along the road, is very rare. Hope some day someone really create something that really last and you can print problems free. Maybe porcelain heatbreaks.... or whatever works. Meanwhile, keep suffering!
I'm pretty sure the mineral oil trick is actually a bad idea. I would definitely do a little more research before trying that... It's not the same as seasoning a cast iron pan to make it non-stick as other videos have tried to say...
Ask for me personally, I've changed my tune since posting this video quite some time ago lol. I still don't care for the bi-metal, but I do use all metal heat breaks now.
And when I'm done with a friend I tend to pull the filament out as it's cooling down, attempting to leave the nozzle and heat break empty and clean (ish)...
Good to see somebody not swayed by the latest fashion. I was😢 …. replaced the hot end on my ender 3v2neo with a bi metal heatbrake because I though it would improve my PETG prints. Boy was I wrong…. So much jamming and cleaning and having to dial in a very tight spec whereas the original part , Bowden tube into the nozzle worked fine with a much wider choice of settings. I have learnt.
Keep telling us fools the truth😎
Thanks for the feedback! I've got some new 3D-printer videos in the pipeline, so be sure to subscribe!
Sounds like the bowden tube wasn't fitted properly... the same thing happened to me lots of jams until I figured out there was a tiny space left between the heatbreak and bowden tube so hot filament would expand and get snagged in it & cause jams.
@@hd-be7di correct…🥴
@@hd-be7di Yes I've been learning that the fitment between the Bowden tube and the heat break, or nozzle, depending on the setup, is super critical, and needs to be cut perfectly straight, and held in quite tightly with the correct type of Bowden coupler.
In an upcoming video, I'm rebuilding two Tina 2 printers, and I did make a modification using the brass style Bowden coupler at the top, basically encapsulating the short piece of PTFE, ensuring that it cannot move or create a gap...
So far these little printers are printing fantastic, beyond my expectations. That video will be coming out pretty soon, along with a couple of other mods I made...
@@JustinNelsonsProjects That sounds cool those Tina printers look like toys but they actually work lol
PTFE will start degrading at 240... 250... C etc. It'll also start off-gassing at the bottom. There isn't a clear temperature "break" where it goes instantly from stable to unstable, same as there's no simple line in the sand temperature where other plastics go from rigid and stable to suddenly melting. You'll note after printing for a while at 250 with a direct PTFE connection, it'll look burnt at the bottom. Yeah the fumes from that process aren't good for you either.
PTFE burning / offgassing / losing its nice nonstick properties at somewhere around 250 is exactly the same reason they tell you not to heat a teflon pan past.... 220!? Dupont have paid out over 660 million in damages for lawsuits from its cancer risks, poisoning and contamination. It's most dangerous form is from offgassing from overheating.
I didn't say I would necessarily *run* the printer at 250 -- in fact I *mostly* print PLA, only occasionally PETG and I *usually* print that slower and at about 240... in a well-ventilated room.
I don't *recommend* doing that... though the video may imply as much. Since the making of this video I have actually learned a lot more about PTFE and the Dupont lawsuits, and their business practices in general... ugh...
I was a little harsh in my attitude for that comment, but I think in the 3D printing community there is a certain level of blasé attitude that comes across about it, which I think isn't helpful. For all of that, even to get at strict numbers to follow is difficult. There are dupont's numbers (hard to believe they wouldn't have a bias), and some manufacturers' numbers, even finding them independently is difficult since there are a lot of lawyers both interested in knowing exactly when things are safe and when exactly when they aren't, and there's also a lot of lawyers who would rather we remain in a certain amount of ignorant bliss. "At what temperatures does PTFE burn enough to start giving you a statistically noticeable raise in cancer chance if you stay in a room with a 3D printer over a year?" is not an easy question to even approach, let alone find someone willing to sign their name to a particular answer.
My own approach is that while an alternative exists that can keep all PTFE tubing away from high 200 numbers and direct hotend heating elements (any kind of decent all-metal approach that should at the least keep it below 200), I'll just stick to that. Certainly for PLA it's not the easiest solution or anywhere as cheap, but peace of mind is nice even if clogging is more likely.
@@ivolol I do have an upcoming video about adding a direct drive extruder to the mp10 printer. I will be sure to clarify some of the PTFE potential risks, and I will also dig into all metal hot ends, however I do stand by the fact that I do not like the bi-metal hot ends. I do believe that is more of a gimmick and I've had nothing but trouble out of that.
But you raise a lot of good points which is why I liked your comment, and at this point Monoprice mp10 upgrades are a little bit niche right now given all the new things that have come out in 2023...
But always, I appreciate feedback positive or negative on my content. I wasn't as informed when I made this video, and while I'm not going to pull the video, I will make an updated version here soon after I finish up a couple other projects.
@@ivolol I just reread your comment, and one thing resonated with me. The blase attitude that a lot of CZcamsrs and 3D printing channels have about things like fumes and just overall safety.
Not many channels or videos really address that issue. I mean I occasionally print in ASA material, and I never mention that ventilation is super important. Almost as much as ABS or polycarbonate..
I will make an effort in future videos to stress the fact that ventilation is super important both for the material being printed, and the PTFE if being used...
As I said, all feedback is important, especially if it makes me think about it for more than a few minutes. I certainly don't want my videos to promote unsafe practices, and I take these kind of comments to heart. Please keep them coming when I do future 3D printing videos, though I'm kind of off that topic at the moment I do have a couple more 3D printing videos in the pipeline, and I will take these things into consideration.
@@JustinNelsonsProjects almost all of the video has good information so I gave it a like even if I sound critical in the comments. For a out-of-left-field idea I've just seen a video of guy with a print farm saying he adds a single drop of mineral oil down into his all metal hotends to lubricate them for PLA... 🤣 Maybe I'll give that a go sometime...
*Promosm*
Sorry but I just looked into promosm. Not interested, it violates many of CZcams's policies. I prefer to grow my channel organically thank you
How on earth can your audio sound so horrible using that $400 SM7B microphone?
I really don't know what to say here... nobody's ever complained about my audio before... and I've been an audio engineer and DJ for over 25 years...
Everyone's entitled to their opinion... it's perhaps a tad bassy (something I've dialed down in more recent videos) but otherwise, it's not distorted, there's virtually zero background noise, and I come across pretty crystal clear.
Unlike some of the content I found on your channel (distortion specifically on your Trump rant and your gun videos)... just saying...
This commentary is careless and false. Firstly, depending on what brand of ASA you're buying, the heat sensitivity and print temperature range will vary, so that can get you close. When youre printing fast what do you do to allow the printer to keep up with the load? You raise the temperature. Some printers are notorious for getting hotter at the nozzle than displayed, like the Kobra Max and Vyper ( you may be over by now). Heating a heater block isn't precise, you overshoot it and undershoot it... that's what PID tuning is for. And in all of this you neglect to mention that these fumes cause cancer.
Also, most 3D printers don't have Capricorn tubing, it's that white one, we see that black charming all the time *so yes, it cooks and causes debris and clogs too.... don't be so anxious for content that you put folks health at risk.
See my pinned comment...