I am American, and I can assure you that many people care about their ancestry and would give a good deal to visit the places from whence their families came. A woman I know recently spent two years learning Polish and went there for a trip of several weeks. One very large obstacle, and not only for Americans, is EXPENSE. Most of us feel obliged to use our money for the kids' school bills, a comfortable home, and things that lie closer to the bone than travel. Be great to be idle and rich!!!
I come from a very strong Irish-Scottish-Welsh background in Massachusetts, and had the good fortune to visit all three countries back in 2019. Love my heritage dearly.
"The author libelled Cope who was not asleep, did not flee the battlefield and had fought bravely at Dettingen. He commanded a small force of inexperienced recruits since most of the Hanoverian army was abroad fighting in the war of the Austrian succession. Hence Charles Edward Stuart's opportunistic adventure. The recruits fled the field in spite of Cope's attempt to rally them. The same author libelled another officer who then challenged him to a duel. I can find no record of this brave songster putting his sword where his mouth had been. I think he fled the field like a frichted bird. The Corries never tell you that."
In Elgin in 1946 we were roused by a piper kicking open the door and marching through the barrack-room playing this tune. I assure you that we were "wakin' yet"!
I'm from Prestonpans, and live in England, no one knows of this battle down here. It only lasted 2mins, even in history books it rarely gets a mention.
Lastly, add in to the fact that Government forces barely made 13 miles a day on average and the Jacobites were making 24 miles easy, you have the recipe that a good commander will maneuver and strike pieces of the slower force before it is able to deploy. The Princes worst mistake was during the retreat, not allowing Murray to throw the entire army against the 1,500 horse and horsemounted Infantry under Cumberland.
right, and Charlie wanted to march on London at Derby. However, he was overruled. There were less than 6,000 troops in London of which 1,100 were likely to join him! 43rd and the Scottish Guards! Charlies tactical instincts were sound all throughout the campaign-save for his leaving of the Manchester Regiment in England. Retreat into the highlands? So more men could desert? Retreating in the first place was a terrible idea that led to desertions and the destruction of Jacobite Moral
You are right. During Queen Anne's reign the succession was promised to Sophia of Hanover and her descendents (George was her son) and sophia's mother was Princess Elizabeth Stuart of Scotland. They were all the same family. People say that the Pretenders were passed over because of their Catholicism which is true but she herself was passed over because of her sex. Had they had the current rules then on the death of James VI the crown would have gone to Elizabeth and not her wee brother Charles
I agree EMasaros, as I've already pointed out above. Having lived in Ireland, Scotland and Poland I have met many Americans looking for their roots. I've also met German Americans on-line looking for roots etc. I've also got Canadian relatives (plastic yanks, I know) who are well aware of their heritage. I imagine there are many people who DON'T have an interest but it would be foolish to suggest nobody in US cares about their roots.
@Taysidethistle & DinpleScot Thanks T ! There is indeed a pipe version on the Black Watch "Dark Island" CD, available on amazon. Price incl. p&p to the continent is ~ two uisghes in my favourite pub, which means for once in my life I might get home less than completely plastered.
Belle chanson écossaise(the Corriesqui raconte l'histoire de la bataille de Prestonpans(?) (une des rares victoires écossaises sur les Anglais. Les "Jacobites" étaient conduits par le "Bonnie Prince Charlie(Charles Edouard Stuart). Victoire hélas sans lendemain(voir 1745 Culloden ).
Funny thing is that James flooded the English court with his Scottish favourites and the English didn't like it. It was a bit like Tony Blair's early cabinets.
The King was with his army outside London, 6,000 effective (perhaps) of which 1 in 3 had only had a firelock for three weeks or less and with 1,000 of the most senior almost certainly going to go over to the enemy! At least the 43rd would have. Officers who fought against Charlie had private reservations about whether they were fighting for the "right" side-watching Hanoverian forces killing and mistreating Jacobites and having Charlie show magnanimity by release even Hanover spies.
In addition to the Campbells, the MacNabbs (sadly, the clan which I descend from) also betrayed the Scottish kings, both under Robert Bruce and Charlie. I hope I am descended from the few loyal scottish MacNabbs, which I suspect as my Grandfather always sang Loch Lomond
Alternatively, they maintained their loyalty to a different line of Stuart's - Queen Mary was a granddaughter and Charles Edward Stuart a grandson, both Stuarts, both with the same descent Besides, in 1745 & 1790 it was all about religion not nationality
firfuxsake ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS................. HAHAAAAAAAA!! INDIPENDANCE = FAAAAAAAAAAAAIL!! FOR THE SECOND TIME!! OH AND YOU WERE/ARE CURRENTLY OPPRESSED?! (if you think you are, go pick up a dictionary learn the meaning of the word) BUT IN SHORT ARE WE SCOTTISH OPPRESSED...... NOPE!! CANT GET ANYMORE FREE, NO UNLESS YOU WANT THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU WANT AND IN THAT CASE.... GO LIVE IN SOMALIA THEY PRETTY MUCH DO THAT THERE, HEARD ITS A LOVELY PLACE TO LIVE WITH AMAZING FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!! HAHAA LAUGHED AT YA WANNA BE SWORD WIELDING NUTJOB! GBTQ AN THE UNION!
Firstly, I don't believe I mentioned oppression anywhere, if I did, feel free to point out where I said that. Secondly, we're not free when we're ruled over by a government we didn't vote for, making decisions to strip our human rights. I won't be moving anywhere - I'm a Proud Scot, and I'll give Scotland my everything until the day I die. You may want to use your dictionary to look up the spelling of Independence - ya knob.
@marvlus69 You're right it was more of a walkover than a battle. The govt troops were hardly a crack force. Mostly completely raw recruits who'd never seen action - or aged veterans who were long passed their best. The artillery was in the hands of invalided seamen. The Jacobites didn't really encounter the govt army proper until Falkiirk which went quite well for the Jacobites - then Culloden which of course was a disaster for them!
De acuerdo en cuanto la anciedad de el idioma de los Escoses, tanto como el idioma de Cataluna, y de el de los gallegos. No entiendo a cuales de la gente quienes han comentado diriges tus comentos. Disculpa q' mi Castillano es del Peru, y q' mi computadora no es bilingue. Peor aun, soy natural de Texas, U.S.A.
El Gaelico es un idioma, el escoces es un dialecto del bajo sajon. Y soy escoces. (Although they do say Edinburgh is the northernmost town in England). El Catalan no es un dialecto, pero es una forma del bajo frances, o dicho de otro modo, es una dialecto del Provençal. Sobre el Gallego mi ignorancia es tal que no are juicio alguno.
if you checked your history the term jacobite refers to a supporter of the stuart familly ie. james stuart illigitimate son of kings charles II who had alot more supporters in england than in scotland it was only when parliament invited william of orange over that the cause moved mainly to scotland. so to sum jacobite refers just as much to englishmen as to scots!
I'd imagine a large number of people in UK are the same. There are many families which are immigrant (from centuries back) but have little or no interest in it. Maybe there's a reason both here and there why it isn't important to them.
yep Garyoppolis. the song's about Prestonpans right enough. the scots flanked the english left side as they were going into formation and decimated them. nothing to do with Falkirk. the cause still lives on.
No, that's not quite right. As Cope later wrote to Cumberland, the Jacobite plan of attack was devised by Keppoch, possibly the most able battlefield tactician in Europe after a 10 year career as a distinguished officer in the French army. He had the ability to smell a rat at 50 miles, and when he smelled one at 50 yards on the morning of Culloden, it cost him his life (and that of my ancestor, his bodyguard). As for Prestonpans, the Highlanders were usually portrayed as a rabble, but years of regular training had instilled a discipline which Keppoch harnessed. On approaching Cope, Cope was alert and turned his army to face them. It was late evening and after the Jacobites withdrew, Cope later saw them approach from 90 degrees to the right. He turned his army to face them, but again the Jacobites withdrew. Darkness fell and as daylight broke, Cope could see the enemy a further 90 degrees to the right and turned his army again to face them. In the poor light, he did not realise that the men he faced were only decoys, the bulk of the Jacobite army having gone left 90 degrees at the last move. They then attacked Cope from behind and that is why, as he was at the head of his army, the song joked about him being first to come with the news of his own defeat. That is why Cope was exonerated by the board of enquiiry as none of them could say they would have acted differently.
Care to Explain Falkirk? A government defeat with veteran troops? Culloden was Lord George Murrays idea for a battleground. The Battleground advocated by other members of the Princes command staff was another open field nae on a moore.
Lord George Murray was never a soldier. He was a figurehead behind whom various clans could muster. In Scotland, we have lay magistrates who hear court cases. They are not legally qualified, but always sit with a legally qualified assessor who advises them on the law. Murray was like one of these magistrates, with Keppoch being his assessor. The more I delve into this, the more I remember about things my primary school teacher, a Strathglass Chisholm, told me but which I could not understand at the time. She knew of my family history, but I think World War I caused my grandfather to disallow any part of our military history being passed down to future generations.
very large compared to what I mean I met like nobody who even cares. I live in america compared to our population there actually very few going there. What would be strange is if everyone you met was like "yeah I been the european country my ancestors came from" that would be like an episode of tales from the darkside.
It wasn't really all his fault (as the court martial said). His troops weren't exactly battle hardened vetrans and they skeedaddled at the sight of a few thousand hairy highlanders charging them (and who wouldn't!).
Actually it was a lesson in warfare, as an American with no dog in this race I suggest you read up on Falkirk- where a highly trained and veteran Government army was defeated by the same sort of tactics as demonstrated at Prestonpans.
My Grandfather fought for the Germans, yet I am still a proud Scottish Nationalist. This has nothing to do with Germany. Also remember most Germans who fought were not Nazis. They were merely fighting for their country as you would fight for yours if required.
No normal person would fill a box car with children and help send them to a death camp, never, only Germanic people do things like that. Even the worst Soviet Gulag was a work camp and neglect & famine was used for genocide, because hard core Soviets wouldn't do the things German citizens did helping Hitler.
I put this up on my local website a few years ago. When my parents bought their hotel in Beauly in 1951, my father from then on, always took part in a domino session every Friday night. Very early on, a very young ex POW called Heinrich was introduced to the company and at once said "You won't like me; I'm a German." Local man Andy Smith, who had fought in WWI, turned round and said "Laddie, you fought for your country just as we did for ours, and nobody here will ever hold that against you."
Hugeuenot1982 I agree with jacobiker nationalists were the jacobites they fought for the rightful king that descended from the Bruce's the same Bruce's that won at bannockburn
In answer to your not seeing the humour of them having lost their roots, my coment is referring to "funny" being strange. You say the Americans have all but forgotten their roots but the amount of them coming to Europe and looking for the old country is very large, which would dispute your suggestion.
You are completely and utterly misinterpreting the historical record; In fact I will simply close with the Whig perception of the day; 'My Lord Cobham's expression before a numerous assembly' - " It must be owned," says he. "that this young man is a most glorious fellow; it is a pity he is a Catholic. I don't know who has the conduct of those people's affairs in the military, but this I can assure, that they have not committed one mistake since they came into the kingdom (England)"
Prince Charlie had it right, strike for the head of the Snake. Cumberland would not have been able to arrive in London for at least two days after the Prince-and his army would have come up in detail. Old man Wade would have been week(s) away and couple that with the fact that neither the Dutch (Catholic treaty with France) nor the Hessians (Prince of Hesse attached would not allow his men to go into combat without the recognition of the rebels as enemy combatants, IE prisoners of war)
Mistake, Murray wanted to retreat further into the highlands whilst the prince wanted to stand and fight. At which point, Charlie agreed on a night time attack which resulted in nothing more than failure. If anyone fecked up, it was the moronic cuif of a prince. Not the loyal generals who knew when to run and fight.
It was an argument between two Kings, thousands of men were lost and their families lives torn apart- sound familiar? Times don't change but at least its a good song if nothing else.
Then allow me to close with simple fact. Due to poor leadership, poor planning and simply awful overall command. Those loyal Jacobites were bombarded insomuch that victory was simply impossible. Who slept in on eve of battle? Who left his men to die and who took flight? Charlie was a useless commander on field. As for the quote in regards to military affairs, that only goes to support the fact that Murray was brilliantly designed for command. Him having been the leading general in the campaign.
I agree...the Stuarts were a useless lot and Charles Edward was about the worst. He came here with no support or money and used the highlanders for his hopeless cause, then took off when it failed leaving those at home to pay the price.
I am American, and I can assure you that many people care about their ancestry and would give a good deal to visit the places from whence their families came. A woman I know recently spent two years learning Polish and went there for a trip of several weeks. One very large obstacle, and not only for Americans, is EXPENSE. Most of us feel obliged to use our money for the kids' school bills, a comfortable home, and things that lie closer to the bone than travel. Be great to be idle and rich!!!
Well put!
Respect from Poland
I come from a very strong Irish-Scottish-Welsh background in Massachusetts, and had the good fortune to visit all three countries back in 2019. Love my heritage dearly.
im from Campbeltown Argyll. Scottish to the core!
"The author libelled Cope who was not asleep, did not flee the battlefield and had fought bravely at Dettingen. He commanded a small force of inexperienced recruits since most of the Hanoverian army was abroad fighting in the war of the Austrian succession. Hence Charles Edward Stuart's opportunistic adventure. The recruits fled the field in spite of Cope's attempt to rally them. The same author libelled another officer who then challenged him to a duel. I can find no record of this brave songster putting his sword where his mouth had been. I think he fled the field like a frichted bird. The Corries never tell you that."
In Elgin in 1946 we were roused by a piper kicking open the door and marching through the barrack-room playing this tune. I assure you that we were "wakin' yet"!
Yessssss ,what a chanter to wake up to
All my army days this is what was played on the pipes in the morning to get us up happy days forward the forty twa
I love this! I stumbled upon this song while browsing a scottish radio station.
Miss them.
I'm from Prestonpans, and live in England, no one knows of this battle down here.
It only lasted 2mins, even in history books it rarely gets a mention.
These guys are the best of the best
Lastly, add in to the fact that Government forces barely made 13 miles a day on average and the Jacobites were making 24 miles easy, you have the recipe that a good commander will maneuver and strike pieces of the slower force before it is able to deploy. The Princes worst mistake was during the retreat, not allowing Murray to throw the entire army against the 1,500 horse and horsemounted Infantry under Cumberland.
Best version with the one of Planxty! Greetings from Ireland. K.
No, Ewan Maccoll
Who is listening in 2023??
2024🤙🏻
right, and Charlie wanted to march on London at Derby. However, he was overruled. There were less than 6,000 troops in London of which 1,100 were likely to join him! 43rd and the Scottish Guards! Charlies tactical instincts were sound all throughout the campaign-save for his leaving of the Manchester Regiment in England. Retreat into the highlands? So more men could desert? Retreating in the first place was a terrible idea that led to desertions and the destruction of Jacobite Moral
Corries - brilliant. From an Irish brother.
General Cope carried the news of his defeat ahead of the retreating army a bit like James II after the Boyne.
awesome - cant help singing along!
And General Cope is still running…🏴🏴🏴
we did this in class aswell...great song!
Class....sheer Class!
all right! gotta play this one!
❤❤❤
You are right. During Queen Anne's reign the succession was promised to Sophia of Hanover and her descendents (George was her son) and sophia's mother was Princess Elizabeth Stuart of Scotland. They were all the same family. People say that the Pretenders were passed over because of their Catholicism which is true but she herself was passed over because of her sex. Had they had the current rules then on the death of James VI the crown would have gone to Elizabeth and not her wee brother Charles
When learning about the Jacobites in History our teacher plaed this all the time!
I agree EMasaros, as I've already pointed out above. Having lived in Ireland, Scotland and Poland I have met many Americans looking for their roots. I've also met German Americans on-line looking for roots etc. I've also got Canadian relatives (plastic yanks, I know) who are well aware of their heritage. I imagine there are many people who DON'T have an interest but it would be foolish to suggest nobody in US cares about their roots.
on the left Roy Williamson who wrote Flower of Scotland !
@Taysidethistle & DinpleScot Thanks T ! There is indeed a pipe version on the Black Watch "Dark Island" CD, available on amazon. Price incl. p&p to the continent is ~ two uisghes in my favourite pub, which means for once in my life I might get home less than completely plastered.
It sounds to me as if he is singing "walking yet" instead of. "waking yet."
Belle chanson écossaise(the Corriesqui raconte l'histoire de la bataille de Prestonpans(?) (une des rares victoires écossaises sur les Anglais. Les "Jacobites" étaient conduits par le "Bonnie Prince Charlie(Charles Edouard Stuart). Victoire hélas sans lendemain(voir 1745 Culloden ).
@twisterroo thanks a lot. my mom could remember that scene, too :) well i'm just gonna read the whole book, that not a problem!
charrgeeeee ahhhhhhh
Funny thing is that James flooded the English court with his Scottish favourites and the English didn't like it. It was a bit like Tony Blair's early cabinets.
Whaouuu😳😂
Rebellion.
This song makes me want to go down to my local pub and start a fight
im dutch and i lik scottish music
The King was with his army outside London, 6,000 effective (perhaps) of which 1 in 3 had only had a firelock for three weeks or less and with 1,000 of the most senior almost certainly going to go over to the enemy! At least the 43rd would have. Officers who fought against Charlie had private reservations about whether they were fighting for the "right" side-watching Hanoverian forces killing and mistreating Jacobites and having Charlie show magnanimity by release even Hanover spies.
I thought as much. Good eye.
ah this is a great version of this song. Planxty do a great version aswell but its sang in a completely different air. pity its not on youtube...
@twisterroo woah i read them like 3 times and i missed that! when is this song mentioned, and who sings it?
Actually the song's about Prestonpans. The Duke of Cumberland was leading the Government forces by the time of Falkirk.
@Taysidethistle HELP me, lad. There are several CDs available on amathingy - which one would it be? I definitely need that one.
In addition to the Campbells, the MacNabbs (sadly, the clan which I descend from) also betrayed the Scottish kings, both under Robert Bruce and Charlie. I hope I am descended from the few loyal scottish MacNabbs, which I suspect as my Grandfather always sang Loch Lomond
Alternatively, they maintained their loyalty to a different line of Stuart's - Queen Mary was a granddaughter and Charles Edward Stuart a grandson, both Stuarts, both with the same descent
Besides, in 1745 & 1790 it was all about religion not nationality
I descend from the Farquharson, avid Jacobite supporters. I'm probably the only Jacobite in the USA.
FREEDOM! ;)
less than a week to go pal :D then we'll hae oor FREEDOM :D
firfuxsake We were robbed. But not giving up on my dream. Never give up we are the 45+
Women United His Majesty was King of England, as well as Scotland.
firfuxsake ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS................. HAHAAAAAAAA!! INDIPENDANCE = FAAAAAAAAAAAAIL!! FOR THE SECOND TIME!! OH AND YOU WERE/ARE CURRENTLY OPPRESSED?! (if you think you are, go pick up a dictionary learn the meaning of the word) BUT IN SHORT ARE WE SCOTTISH OPPRESSED...... NOPE!! CANT GET ANYMORE FREE, NO UNLESS YOU WANT THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU WANT AND IN THAT CASE.... GO LIVE IN SOMALIA THEY PRETTY MUCH DO THAT THERE, HEARD ITS A LOVELY PLACE TO LIVE WITH AMAZING FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!! HAHAA LAUGHED AT YA WANNA BE SWORD WIELDING NUTJOB! GBTQ AN THE UNION!
Firstly, I don't believe I mentioned oppression anywhere, if I did, feel free to point out where I said that. Secondly, we're not free when we're ruled over by a government we didn't vote for, making decisions to strip our human rights. I won't be moving anywhere - I'm a Proud Scot, and I'll give Scotland my everything until the day I die. You may want to use your dictionary to look up the spelling of Independence - ya knob.
Just reading the points back & forth about the battle & about the Jacobites in general - artistic licence anyone?
if that was not a lesson in war show me what you consider a lesson period
@marvlus69 You're right it was more of a walkover than a battle. The govt troops were hardly a crack force. Mostly completely raw recruits who'd never seen action - or aged veterans who were long passed their best. The artillery was in the hands of invalided seamen. The Jacobites didn't really encounter the govt army proper until Falkiirk which went quite well for the Jacobites - then Culloden which of course was a disaster for them!
I think they call it tactics mate
De acuerdo en cuanto la anciedad de el idioma de los Escoses, tanto como el idioma de Cataluna, y de el de los gallegos.
No entiendo a cuales de la gente quienes han comentado diriges tus comentos.
Disculpa q' mi Castillano es del Peru, y q' mi computadora no es bilingue.
Peor aun, soy natural de Texas, U.S.A.
El Gaelico es un idioma, el escoces es un dialecto del bajo sajon. Y soy escoces. (Although they do say Edinburgh is the northernmost town in England).
El Catalan no es un dialecto, pero es una forma del bajo frances, o dicho de otro modo, es una dialecto del Provençal.
Sobre el Gallego mi ignorancia es tal que no are juicio alguno.
@Huguenot1982 if thats the case, explain to me Killiecrankie if you please??!!??
Weren't the Highlanders fighting against a larger force then?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tought they only lost about a hundred men.
What would ya do with a drunk in sailer what would ya do with a drunk in sailed early in DA mooorrnnin :)
Wasn't Robert the Bruce the Scottish king who fought against Edward "Long shanks"?
Maedhros0Bajar yes
if you checked your history the term jacobite refers to a supporter of the stuart familly ie. james stuart illigitimate son of kings charles II who had alot more supporters in england than in scotland it was only when parliament invited william of orange over that the cause moved mainly to scotland. so to sum jacobite refers just as much to englishmen as to scots!
Aye it's basically the same chords - good enough tune to keep doing over and over though!
I'd imagine a large number of people in UK are the same. There are many families which are immigrant (from centuries back) but have little or no interest in it. Maybe there's a reason both here and there why it isn't important to them.
That's funny... cos they come over and spend a lot of money rediscovering thir roots and buying tartan Loch Ness monsters.
yep Garyoppolis. the song's about Prestonpans right enough. the scots flanked the english left side as they were going into formation and decimated them. nothing to do with Falkirk. the cause still lives on.
No, that's not quite right. As Cope later wrote to Cumberland, the Jacobite plan of attack was devised by Keppoch, possibly the most able battlefield tactician in Europe after a 10 year career as a distinguished officer in the French army. He had the ability to smell a rat at 50 miles, and when he smelled one at 50 yards on the morning of Culloden, it cost him his life (and that of my ancestor, his bodyguard). As for Prestonpans, the Highlanders were usually portrayed as a rabble, but years of regular training had instilled a discipline which Keppoch harnessed. On approaching Cope, Cope was alert and turned his army to face them. It was late evening and after the Jacobites withdrew, Cope later saw them approach from 90 degrees to the right. He turned his army to face them, but again the Jacobites withdrew. Darkness fell and as daylight broke, Cope could see the enemy a further 90 degrees to the right and turned his army again to face them. In the poor light, he did not realise that the men he faced were only decoys, the bulk of the Jacobite army having gone left 90 degrees at the last move. They then attacked Cope from behind and that is why, as he was at the head of his army, the song joked about him being first to come with the news of his own defeat. That is why Cope was exonerated by the board of enquiiry as none of them could say they would have acted differently.
Can some one provide me with the lyrics here from 0:32 to 0:40.
Now Johnny be good as your word,
Come let us try with fire and sword,
Do not flee like a frightened bird,
That's chased from its nest in the mornin'!
Care to Explain Falkirk? A government defeat with veteran troops? Culloden was Lord George Murrays idea for a battleground. The Battleground advocated by other members of the Princes command staff was another open field nae on a moore.
Lord George Murray was never a soldier. He was a figurehead behind whom various clans could muster. In Scotland, we have lay magistrates who hear court cases. They are not legally qualified, but always sit with a legally qualified assessor who advises them on the law. Murray was like one of these magistrates, with Keppoch being his assessor. The more I delve into this, the more I remember about things my primary school teacher, a Strathglass Chisholm, told me but which I could not understand at the time. She knew of my family history, but I think World War I caused my grandfather to disallow any part of our military history being passed down to future generations.
very large compared to what I mean I met like nobody who even cares.
I live in america compared to our population there actually very few going there.
What would be strange is if everyone you met was like "yeah I been the european country my ancestors came from"
that would be like an episode of tales from the darkside.
It wasn't really all his fault (as the court martial said). His troops weren't exactly battle hardened vetrans and they skeedaddled at the sight of a few thousand hairy highlanders charging them (and who wouldn't!).
Actually it was a lesson in warfare, as an American with no dog in this race I suggest you read up on Falkirk- where a highly trained and veteran Government army was defeated by the same sort of tactics as demonstrated at Prestonpans.
I think the notion of 'professional' differs a little these days.
Three English soldiers watched this. Don't believe me? Check the red 'dislike' bar.
Oh, I'm sorry. It's invisible :)
My Grandfather fought for the Germans, yet I am still a proud Scottish Nationalist. This has nothing to do with Germany. Also remember most Germans who fought were not Nazis. They were merely fighting for their country as you would fight for yours if required.
No normal person would fill a box car with children and help send them to a death camp, never, only Germanic people do things like that. Even the worst Soviet Gulag was a work camp and neglect & famine was used for genocide, because hard core Soviets wouldn't do the things German citizens did helping Hitler.
I put this up on my local website a few years ago. When my parents bought their hotel in Beauly in 1951, my father from then on, always took part in a domino session every Friday night. Very early on, a very young ex POW called Heinrich was introduced to the company and at once said "You won't like me; I'm a German." Local man Andy Smith, who had fought in WWI, turned round and said "Laddie, you fought for your country just as we did for ours, and nobody here will ever hold that against you."
Hugeuenot1982 I agree with jacobiker nationalists were the jacobites they fought for the rightful king that descended from the Bruce's the same Bruce's that won at bannockburn
So are the English - we're still under the control of German usurpers too. Bring back the Bonnie Prince!
The auld alliance did more for France than it ever did for Scotland....Flodden was the worst example.
In answer to your not seeing the humour of them having lost their roots, my coment is referring to "funny" being strange. You say the Americans have all but forgotten their roots but the amount of them coming to Europe and looking for the old country is very large, which would dispute your suggestion.
my grnadfather fought against the nazi. were american irish immigrants.
From the sea to the sea, Scotland will be free.
You are completely and utterly misinterpreting the historical record; In fact I will simply close with the Whig perception of the day; 'My Lord Cobham's expression before a numerous assembly' - " It must be owned," says he. "that this young man is a most glorious fellow; it is a pity he is a Catholic. I don't know who has the conduct of those people's affairs in the military, but this I can assure, that they have not committed one mistake since they came into the kingdom (England)"
Prince Charlie had it right, strike for the head of the Snake. Cumberland would not have been able to arrive in London for at least two days after the Prince-and his army would have come up in detail. Old man Wade would have been week(s) away and couple that with the fact that neither the Dutch (Catholic treaty with France) nor the Hessians (Prince of Hesse attached would not allow his men to go into combat without the recognition of the rebels as enemy combatants, IE prisoners of war)
Seems to somewhat lack spirit. I prefer the Tannahill Weavers version.
How the fuck do you know, with absolute certainty, that YOUR assertions are right.
Were you there Huguenot ????????
Why is that funny at all there lost from thier roots I fail to see the humor in it.
I think its great Im glad at least there trying.
Mistake, Murray wanted to retreat further into the highlands whilst the prince wanted to stand and fight. At which point, Charlie agreed on a night time attack which resulted in nothing more than failure. If anyone fecked up, it was the moronic cuif of a prince. Not the loyal generals who knew when to run and fight.
It was an argument between two Kings, thousands of men were lost and their families lives torn apart- sound familiar? Times don't change but at least its a good song if nothing else.
Then allow me to close with simple fact. Due to poor leadership, poor planning and simply awful overall command. Those loyal Jacobites were bombarded insomuch that victory was simply impossible. Who slept in on eve of battle? Who left his men to die and who took flight? Charlie was a useless commander on field. As for the quote in regards to military affairs, that only goes to support the fact that Murray was brilliantly designed for command. Him having been the leading general in the campaign.
I agree...the Stuarts were a useless lot and Charles Edward was about the worst.
He came here with no support or money and used the highlanders for his hopeless cause, then took off when it failed leaving those at home to pay the price.