TESTED: CMMG Radial Delayed Blowback
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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A lot of people don't realize how challenging it is to develop an AR pistol or SBR that will feed and function reliably. In this story, we'll look at CMMG's Radial Delayed Blowback technology, learn why it was developed, and how it has a drastic taming effect on recoil.
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I agree with many of the other comments. I would love to see a comparison between the CMMG vs MP5 Roller Delay, vs MPX piston driven system.
watch Honest Outlaw, top 5 PCC's
MDP-9 and CMMG Dissent
@mlone7 he doesn't have sled to collect data like what we see here.
Mpx gas system is ridiculous. You have to port so much gas from a 9mm to get pressures needed to do work, it gets absolutely filthy and unserviceable very quick. Not a piece of field equipment.
My cmmg was a POS. I prefer the mpx
The most underrated science based gun video/channel on the interwebs. Phenomenal work is an understatement. Bravo sir.
It would be interesting to see a comparison between CMMG and MP5 delayed blowback
H&K's patent must have expired on the roller delayed blowback system because there are atleast 3 companies making roller delayed 9mm's now, and I would say they are all as good or better than the MP5, Angstad arms makes the MPD-9, but good luck finding one to purschase, JP is making the JP-5 a 3 gun competition vairiant, but it is a long-barrelled gun, and is $$$( I haven't seen a review yet that didn't describe it as the softest and flatest 9mm PCC they have ever shot), Stribog makes the SP9A3, my least favorite, but it is the cheapest and is possible to find, but yeah, I would love to see the data on even the Stribog versus the CMMG.
I just purchased the Zenith premium package the ZF5. Still waiting on it though. But I will say from what I have experienced with the radial-delayed blowback in my banshee upper was not impressive. So if they ever make that comparison with the Roller-Delayed Blowback VS the Radial Delayed Blowback, I can almost guarantee it would be a loooong day for CMMG. To me, it's more hype than anything else.
@@hoosiercarry1149no it s not 😂
I have both and they are about the same
Try a flat wire spring and hydraulic buffer......
I have a Banshee in 45 ACP with the 5” barrel. It’s a very accurate gun with my hand loads. I am pushing 230 grain XTPs to around 1000 fps. I am running a Rugged Obsidian 45 suppressor on it and finally have it running reliably. I had to add the largest CMMG tuning weight to the bolt along with a 5.3 oz 308 carbine buffer. Recoil is so smooth now and with the suppressor it is so quiet. It would be nice to see the effect of suppressors on firearm recoil using your new test rig.
Son, you ain’t pushing no jacketed 230 gr 45 ACP to 1000 fps from a 5” barrel. You either have a bad chronograph or you’re lying like half of the internet reloaders.
@@SavageTactical You might want to expand and update your load data. I'm getting 1035 FPS with Hornady 230gr XTP in a 5" S&W 4506 using 14.0gr of Ramshot Enforcer with Fed. 155 primers. This is published load data from the Ramshot not an overload cooked up.
Very, very cool video. The sinusoidal oscillation going back into battery would be the natural frequency of the bolt/recoil spring. You should calculate it and compare to see how it stacks up. You should consider doing more of this type of analysis, it is very interesting stuff.
Glad you liked it, sounds like you and I think alike! Great ideas.
I’d like to see Radial delayed vs MPX vs Roller delayed.🤩
Tremendous presentation!! Thank you Gavin for putting this together please make more of these type of videos with the new rig!
Excellent video BTW! Hard to believe somebody brings this level of testing to the masses! Thank you.
Nice work Gavin. I really enjoy these types of videos. I have one of the CMMG 10mm banshees so I know how well the radial delayed blowback works. Thanks for the video!! 👍🏻
THIS is the kind of information I've been looking for. Thank you! I've been going back and forth between four different pccs with my main deciding factor being the recoil impulse. It's nice to see some real data behind it instead of just opinions.
Would like to see various 50BMG semi tests in your bucket list. Thanks. This is fantastic!
Recently ordered a banshee bc I was in market for PCC with less recoil.. I’ve heard and seen quite a bit of very positive feedback though this comparison and breakdown of data is awesome! Thank you! Certainly looking forward to trying it out. Will comment when I do.
Loving the amaout of data and the depth of the testing! I hope we will be seeing much more of this type of content.
Fantastic video. Top notch fabrication of the rifle sled. Thanks for geeking out on the recoil data!
This is cool. I look forward to more videos measuring recoil.
Awesome work Gavin! This will be awesome for testing muzzle break and suppressor performances on recoil reduction.
Great video, very interesting. I would like to see the effect of some of the recoil mitigation devices such as Kynshot, lightened bolt carriers with different spring weights, and muzzle brakes. We know those things work, but it would be great to see how much.
Thanks for the efforts to investigate this and share!
Nice work! As a physicist, I totally geeked out from yout test rig.
Incredible work. Thank you for this video. Now I want to see more comparisons !
Thanks for killing it, I geeked out on the data also!
UR is turning out some of the best content easily.
This is one of the best videos I've seen in the Firearms community. I love geeking out on data. Definitely liking and subscribing to learn more.
I have two AR9s that I built that are blowback and I'm really wishing I could convert them to this CMMG BCG and barrel now.
I really like this type of technical and informative video. Thank you for your work.
Really cool man,thanks for all the work you put into this! Love to see the science of this kind of stuff.
I placed an order for a 9mm Banchee using colt style mags last week. Your video just helped to strengthen my decision.
Wow Gavin this is pretty neat stuff. Good work.
A lot of AR testing ideas. The difference between carbine, mid length and rifle length gas on recoil, also for a 6.5 gas gun, the rifle and then +1 and +2 gas length. Lastly AR vs Bullpup.
Thanks for the detailed test!
Suppressor recoil amongst different brands and configurations would be great. Things to know before investing time/$ into a can
I have a short answer. Yes. The fact it doesn't have a giant heavy bolt flying rearward means it is better than a blow back. I tell you this I love my cmmg. It's the most fun gun I have!
Amazing work and much appreciated
Never knew Gavin worked at MS. That's cool.
Thanks for this video. I have a CMMG RDB gun in 9mm so this is like I have validation for choosing the platform. I have no regrets, and now I have data to validate.
I'd really like to see you run a recoil test on muzzle brakes and suppressors, specifically the Maverick.
Absolutely outstanding. I love this type of content. You got a sub from me.
I built out a pistol around an 8" CMMG RDB barrel and BCG and it handles very well. I give this to my friends that are recoil sensitive when they want to step up from shooting 22LR.
Great vid Sir. Looks like a great shooter. God Bless!
15:12 That's potentially the action spring oscillating in the buffer tube after the BCG stops its forward motion. High speed video of a cutaway tube might confirm this
Very interesting
I really like the idea of the CMMG radial bolt and have considering converting my Colt mag fed QC10 lower to that.
Awesome video. I shoot steel challenge and am constantly trying to reduce recoil. Have you had an opportunity to test the scheel roller delay buffer. For me, it has become a game changer.
Please keep up the good work. Love it!!!
Would love to see roller delayed (MP5) graph matched up!
Great experiment. And I hope to see you try same recoil system weight and same spring recoil to find out how exactly different between rdb and blowback.
Very cool video! Thanks for the deep comparison. Something is bugging me though: where are you shooting at when using the rig??
Very interesting to see the results!
I would love to see the data of the Banshee vs. MP5 vs. MPX! Very cool video!
As far testing I think you mentioned most of what would be interesting to see.
Fabulous video Gavin. My question to you would be how much does lubrication of the dynamic parts of the radial delayed blowback system affect the operation and maybe even the recoil?
Awsome video! Instantly SUBed and would like to see more stuff like this.
More to come!
Wow amazing work 👌🏻
Test engineer here; nice setup, interesting results. For future use, it would be nice to have units on the graphs; just a pet peeve, and I know on the PCB stuff that'll mean a bit of messing around. I haven't watched other of your videos yet to see if you've done that.
Great video, was curious how good radial delayed blowback is
Absolutely awesome video. I love it!
I was excited, I thought you were trying out a new tooling insert on your PM lathe.... CMM(G) 😉
I think you should look into a Linear Rail set mounted on bow mount (like the rails on a compound miter saw ) with two pic rail /arca throw levers. A small spring holding the gun to the rear.
Great video, thanks !!
You should do muzzle breaks springs buffers adjustable gas and lightweight bolts with this setup
Everyone that has fired my build with the CMMG 5.7 upper loves it. Stays on target allowing fast follow up shots.
10/10. Would've loved to see a slow mo capture of the gun fired in within the recoil rig to more accurately compare it to the graph
I’d like to see a detailed breakdown of the different area 419 muzzle brake options. Particularly how the 2 port compares to the bigger options.
I have been running a RDB for a while. Was having some issues with ejection as have others...a least early on. This system seems to really beat up on ejector and extractor springs. Recently CMMG has gone with an updated/extra power ejector spring as well as the 'o-ring' on the extractor. I also had the bolt lugs chip on my first unit right at those sharp beveled edges after around 1800 rounds, but a replacement has been good so far through around 400. Hoping it will hold up and stay dependable.
What I like most about the RDB system isn't so much about a noticeably reduced recoil compared to straight blowback, but better tracking and less muzzle lift, with a softer 'landing' at the end of the cycle. Its mother and feels slow than the straight blowback, but not so slow so it feels like it's 'swimming' like it can be when you slow down all that reciprocating mass in a straight blowback.
Bro, you must have made a fortune with MSN because you always have the best toys!
Great video! Love the data!
I would like you to test the banshee with a tubb flat wound spring for a 223/556, a KynShot 5007 buffer, and an A5 buffer tube and see what the test says about recoil. I also think your test machine is bad assed. With your videos and graph data you can put figures to what you see. Real cool!!
Awesome video.
great video, thank you!
Do differences in shoulder soft tissue compression and rebound enter into your thinking and analysis? Thanks for all your efforts,what fun
Like it very mutch how you test it and make the results visible in a diagram.
Can you test various buffer weights in direct blowback 9mm and explore how tuning works with suppressors?
You should have a clear buffer tube made so you can see if that last force measurement is the spring returning rearward.
Great info! Thanks
The 9mm version i had lasted 200 rounds before it wouldn't extract emptys..... put a new 5 coil sprinco in it an it worked great an sent it down the road..
Here's a thought, add an electronic actuator for the trigger (solenoid or servo) that can be bolted onto device under testing. This would help remove (or rather, standardize) the noise from your trigger pull.
I'm thinking the late spike is the sled rebounding or dumping energy back into the pressure sensor and butstock. Think of striking an anvil with even a light hammer. U can feel the wave of energy on/in the mass of the anvil, even though its probably 200plus × the weight of the hammer. The sled would have to be incredibly heavy/dense to not be detected by such a precious sensor.
Maybe you could do a roller delayed gun for comparison like an mp5 or stribog a3
in addition to what others have proposed... it's be interesting to see the comparison between the RDB and a normal, DI AR in 5.56!
Can you create a video comparing roller delayed blowback vs radial delayed blowback ar9?
I’d be really interested in how a rough phosphate BCG compares to a really slick JP BCG or Chromed Microbest BCG
How about a comparison between a radial delay and a piston system like the mpx?
I wonder how the graphs would compare with bolt hold open on an empty mag.
Man that was just EXCELLENT thanks for your time and effort from Canada where we can not own CMMG piss me off
Just curious;Why can't you own CMMG???
@@pebo8306 our dickhead gov't has banned "assault style" (scary) weapons, no ARs, CZ Scorpions, and CMMG did not submit one to the RCMP (federal police) so they could be officially banned. I wanted one a couple of years ago and I would have had to be the "test case" sorry not on my nickle. But if I move I will own one!
I’d love to see the recoil data difference between a good chassis system and and something like a foundation MG2
You should do this test on stribog Gen 1 and Gen 3
I believe ferfrans has a component in it's bolt assembly that will tame the recoil but will reduce the fire rate.
Building a RDB now. Muzzle brakes would be perfect for the sled.
Wow....good info. Makes sense as to why the CMMG Banshee is so expensive. I'll stick to my extar9 and sub 2000, unless I win the lottery.
This is a very detailed comparison, thanks for putting this together. I hope someday in the future you do the same with the stribog sp9a3.
Edit: I have a JP5 roller delay ar9 on pre-order. I'd love to see that tested if you can get your hands on one.
Do you think fast burning powder vs slow burning powder would show significantly different signatures in large bolt action platforms? Maybe 338LM class?
I wonder what the upper limit on this system would be for cartridge power.
I also wonder if the angled bolt lugs could serve as a positive extraction mechanism for conventional rifles.
The radial is definitely a straight pushback. I think the small ripple is the bolt locking. It would be cool to see the CMMG VS SP5.
Time for a stribog roller delay vs radial delay comp?!
That nearly perfect sinusoidal response for the rotating bolt will be dampened by your shoulder. Keep in mind, there could be feedback from the rigid steel frame on the end of the graph. Regardless, huge difference in recoil between the two. Nice engineering analysis!
Yes on RDB I have a Grand Power Stribog A3.
Stribog has roller-delayed action!--Comparing apples to oranges!
Love these kind of videos that compare claims of these companies with legit data that people can use when making a purchase. In this case is the extra worth it for radial delay. The next interaction could be straight blow back vs radial delay vs roller delay like mp5. Another great experiment could be how the data looks for gasses in the action on these different operating systems. See how these systems effect gasses shooters experience while running suppressed.
Since it’s been a few years from the RDB being introduced, what’s the overall service life on these? Do the lugs shear off after 1000 rounds from the rotational force on them?
Ever since I found out about this radial delay, I wanted it, but settled for a PSA ARV due to cost. Sure would be great if PSA could enter into an agreement to use this tech in offerings like mine. I'm not holding my breath. I thought the radial delay looked just like an ar bolt with the pivot pin, so I am scratching my head how its patented.
My wife Shot a bunch of PCCs and chose the CMMG Guardian model in 45 ACP. She said it had the least kick out of several. With a couple of Kriss conversion Glock mags and one 13 rounder in the gun, her truck gun would be a big surprise to anyone with nefarious intentions toward her. Eight inch barrel shoots one inch groups at fifty yards all day long. Also, the most expensive gun I've ever bought.
Do you think the 2nd peek in the bolt/buffer all the way back is the radial blow back is the bolt backing into the bolt carrier group?
In your animation it shows the bolt carrier moving back before the bolt head moves?