LS Tech: Installing an ATI Harmonic Balancer
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- ARP Crankshaft Bolt (234-2503)
amzn.to/2EvEkFv
Factory bolt is single use only
ATI Super Damper (C5 LS1 - 917278)
amzn.to/2CqZ17k
*Be sure to get the correct part # for your application)
Harmonic Balancer Installation Tool
amzn.to/3o4qlNF
Flywheel Holding Tool (if you have the flywheel installed, this works well for keeping the crank from turning)
amzn.to/2rjJ2jG
How to install an ATI Harmonic Balancer on an LS1 engine.
![What You SHOULD Know About Harmonic Damper Pulleys | Harmonic Balancers 101 [TECH TALK]](/img/n.gif)
Found your video while I was installing my balancer on my GTO and you saved my evening thank you.
Thanks for Ati assembly a day install videos. A video is worth thousand words. Both videos were clear, consise and extremely helpful 👌. Thank you very much
ATI states to use red Loctite on bolt and RTV on the washer sides. I don’t know how you can use ARP lube and RTV/?. Previously just used ARP lube on factory balancer.
Man your videos are golden, thank you so much for the details.
Awesome, glad to hear the videos are helpful!
@@ScrufsGarage not trying to bug you but I’m stuck on a decision I’m trying to make. In the instructions, it says for any Aluminum Hubs (mine is) using a front cover Teflon seal, you must have a “SPEEDY SLEEVE” or a steel hub. The front cover seal on my replacement will be oem. I’m trying to figure out if I need to add speedy sleeve if I’m using a oem front cover seal. Also seeing if I can pin it, or should just go the black RTV route.
Just to clarify -- I'm reading the ATI Installation Instructions at their website and it says in step 1, " Save your old bolt for installation in the last step. (OEM bolts
are a 1-time use only bolt - do not reuse as a primary bolt!"
And then at the end;
"1. Use your old bolt to install the damper and torque to 240 ft/lbs, then remove it. This is to seat the
damper completely.
2. Install your new bolt and tighten to 37 ft/lbs. We recommend Blue or Red Loctite here if you are doing
any high performance driving with this engine.
3. This step is to get a reference on the front of the engine. With the torque wrench hanging at the spot
where the 37 ft/lbs was achieved, reference 140° clockwise for another tightening cycle. Put a mark or a
piece of tape where you need to tighten.
4. Then go another 140° from the 37 ft/lbs starting point and you are now tight."
So, basically, after the OLD bolt is used to fully seat the damper at 240 ft/lbs, the new bolt is only torqued to 37 ft/lbs at three different points.
Those instructions are for using a new OE TTY bolt. Torque is set by angle (140*), not by a specific torque value. But do NOT just torque it to 37 ft/lbs and call it good. For me personally, I used an ARP crank bolt, which is reusable. These are installed to a specific torque value. tech.arp-bolts.com/instructions/234-2503.pdf ATI also has instructions for installing with a reusable bolt... www.atiracing.com/instructions/951503.pdf
@@ScrufsGarage Ok now I get it ... torque down the ATI super damper to 240 ft/lbs, remove the old bolt, and then install the ARP bolt / washer and torque down to 235 ft/lbs. Very good then ... thanks for the clarification!
You know after the installation threaded rod, you could've just used the ARP bolt and torqued it down? Using the GM bolt to torque it to 240ftlbs and then using the ARP bolt to torque it to 235ft lbs is basically the same thing.
I'm about to change my hb next month and I'd like to know the answer to that as well !!
helpful video series. i'm doing all the same stuff on an 01 LS1.
Awesome, glad to hear the videos are helpful. My LS1 was a 2001 also, so they should be similar.
@@ScrufsGarage what's interesting, is my 01 block has the timing chain dampener holes while your's didn't. everyone told me those didn't show up until 2003.
but ya, SUPER helpful. videos overall.
Oh, that's interesting about yours having the timing chain damper holes already drilled. Best of luck on your build!
Can you show us how you kept the crank from turning? I'm assuming there is a lockout tool, but, how did you do it?
I wedged a pry bar between some of the flywheel bolts and the engine stand. If you already have the flywheel installed, several companies sell a flywheel locking tool, which is pretty slick. amzn.to/2rjJ2jG
The ati dampener has timing marks on it.
If you were keying your balancer. It would probably be a good idea to set the engine to TDC 0 first right?? So that way the key is also a marker for TDC.
In case you had to remove the balancer again.
Interesting, most of us will put on the new damper with the engine in the car!
You'll have a lot more room to work if you just pull the entire engine out of the car, haha.
Okay now how do you remove it?
Can you use the Oem harmonic balance bolt for this application? Also is the stud you used & the washer & nut are those a special tool that you can buy somewhere ?
Yes you can use an OEM balancer bolt... just remember that the OE bolt is TTY so it is single use. So you will need to use a new bolt; don't reuse your old one. However, I would recommend spending a few more dollars and getting the ARP bolt. And yes, the installation tool is available. amzn.to/2lC9Ngz FYI, I generally try to put links in the episode notes.
If the balancer comes with a keyway in the hub and the crankshaft does not why would you install it
The key way in the hub is used if you are pinning the crank. Otherwise just fill it with rtv so it doesn't leak.
i have a 6.0 LS and ive removed my oem dampner several times and reinstalled it using tools from ICT billet,im installing a super charger from torque storm and my engine is in the ride,im having hell seating it all the way to the crank so i can pin the crank with a drill,i use toe straps or crank straps to hold the balancer from turning but good lord this new ati balancer is super tight,im scared im going to break something,usually one tow strap works but its stretching it,so tomorrow im going to put two straps on it then tru using my old oem bolt my ICT billet tool is black steel but im not sure how much it can handle,guess i can look,any tips on keeping the balancer from turning while in the car ? anyone ?
After you had the damper fully seated and before you put the arp bolt in. Did you happen to notice how the close to flush the bore of the damper finished in relationship to the face of the crank snout. I put mine on today and it fully seated about 4mm out from the face of crank snout, after removing and reinstalling twice, panic, phone calls and research I finally found where the tolerance of that relationship is 2.2mm-4.8mm per the factory LS service manual.So I'm just curious what you have, if you checked ?
Joshua Whitelaw sorry I did not. I figured at those torque levels it was as seated as I’d be able to get it, haha.
I checked mine when I installed it and as I recall it wasn't within the factory range. I measured the stock hub length and the ATI hub length and then computed a new range based on the difference. I would need to dig for the numbers though.
So you install the balancer with the tool, seated it with the old bolt at required torque and finally ARP? You don't be scared to reuse the old TTY bolt for this procedure?
A TTY bolt achieves it's torque spec by bolt stretch (ie, putting the bolt into "yield"). Once that's done, you can't reuse the bolt for final installation because you won't achieve that load again. However, the bolt isn't going to break, so it's fine to use it for helping seat the balancer. But final installation should either be a new TTY bolt, or an ARP bolt (which is not TTY and thus reusable).
@@ScrufsGarage Great, I was woried about the old bolt to break in the crankshaft. We can't just install the pulley with the tool and torque the ARP to specs? We need to torque the old bolt before?
Guillaume Malaquin that’s correct! Use the old bolt first. Literally just used to get the balancer seated correctly. This procedure is listed on page 3 if you look up the instructions on ATI’s website.
Great video! Thanks!
Thanks for watching! Very glad to hear the video was helpful.
Hey thanks for vid, I’m reading the ATI instructions that was included with their super damper, it says we gotta measure some things to get the correct, measurement from the tip of the snout to the washer surface when the damper is fully on the crank, I didn’t see you do this or mention it, is it required for proper installation ?
Did you pin it down?
I did not. But if you are going to run supercharger then it would be a good idea.
Liking your page, lots of cool info. Just curios if you ended up pulling motor from top with a hoist and If so what needed to be done. I hear that it was designed to all drop out from below but I don't have lift a home and would like to remove from above if possible
Yes, I pulled the motor from the top because like you I'm working on jack stands without a lift. I used a HF 2 ton engine hoist and positioned on the side of the car. It isn't long enough to reach from the front. I also had to drop the front cradle some to clear the oil pan. I actually pulled the heads/intake while still in the car (doing diagnostics), but when I reinstalled the motor I had the heads back on it. The heads make it even tighter dropping it in from the top... but it's doable. Just be patient.
I was waiting to see a measurement of the snout to see how to check that its pressed on far enough into factory specs. Guess we arent covering that
Should be fully seated once you hit 230lbft
@@j1mmys4ndusky not quite, there is an actual factor measurement as to how far it should protrude off the crank.
@@Battle_Garage 2.40-4.88mm
The ARP crank bolt requires a 12 point socket. May I ask what size 12 point socket?
I believe it is 1-1/16”.
Very good video. Where do I get that tool the threaded piece to put on the damper initially.?
Thanks for watching. Links to the tools I used are in the episode notes.
Are they zero balance for the new LT1, LT4 motors?
Is the dampener supposed to be fully seated?
Hi, I´m from Sweden and I own a 99 Corvette with harmonic balancer problem. I have bought a ATI 917266 balancer. Is it better if I put all three pieces together myself and then let the garage do the another job. The ATI manual says that the different parts should be installed piece by piece. Sorry if the language is not correct, but I hope you understand my question.
I bet a Corvette in Sweden really stands out! As for the balancer, based on my experience, the 3 pieces should be assembled together first and then the entire unit is pressed onto the front of the motor.
@@ScrufsGarage Hi, thanks for the answer. I have the same idea as you. I see that the Torx plus bits is hard to find . I have to order it from a special-tools dealer. Corvettes stands out , but I think there are many in Sweden . The Club Corvette Sweden got over 2600 cars and nearly the same numbers of cars are not members. C4 models are cheapiest here. Mint condition C1 and C2 costs the same as a new C7 in Sweden.
Yea, Torx-plus is not as common. Honestly, the torque spec on those bolts is fairly low. You can probably get away with using a regular torx bit. Just be careful with it, because if you strip the head of the bolt, you're really in trouble.
@@ScrufsGarage Hi. I have already order the tool Thanks for your great videos. I've looked at your videos several times and I think they will help many with their problems. I hope my school-english is ok
How did the crank not move how did you fully seat the balancer you cut out everything thay was needed to know
In the episode notes I put a link to a flywheel holding tool to keep the crank from turning. Hope this helps. amzn.to/2rjJ2jG
That area He is pointing to at sec: 15 is the area we all should know area where the oil pressure thingy, if you look at Yamaha and most other YZF-type there is an oil clear meter to view on the left-hand side on most models, don't forget Honda Goldwing only one of that reverses only. Very funny that Pepto-Bismol has silicate which may yield silicone Puddy for harmonic balancer dampner. I'd rather use the silicone gel and usually most often as a mechanic blue lock tight. Just kidding but it allows for the elimination of parasitic drag. Did you forget to put the gel on there? Notice He states it is an LS, so you would have the LT1 which was an iron block, then LS1 is the aluminum block engines. Haynes Manuals have the torque-spec, but you must call with your manual to ask a tech live. Thanks Scruf for inviting me to comment. Nice dialing on the torque wrench. #McCuistonAutomotiveSciences #SiliconeForSeatingBalancersDampners
I dont have a notch on my timing cover seal, what is the point of putting rtb on the key notch of the balancer it self? Thanks
The notch in the balancer is a gap that could allow oil to leak past the timing cover seal. A dab of rtv helps fill the notch in the balancer.
my 2005 vette lost power steering and charging.. So i shut car off and only thing i found is harmonic balancer bolt was finger loose.. But balancer visually seems to be still on all the way.... Forum member said ill need crank if it spun on it... But i feel crank is alot harder than balancer so i may luck out...( Hope so i just bought and financed the car 4 months ago)
Getting ready to order balancer... So what your thought on if i may need to pin mine, and if so whats a good kit and how hard is it to do.
Sorry to hear that. Definitely inspect the end of the crank and see how it looks, but hopefully it's ok. ATI makes a pin kit, and probably a few other brands too. Make sure you get a new crank bolt as the OE bolt is TTY. I used an ARP crank bolt.
So maybe I missed it what is the significance of the new balancer !?
It removes much of the torsional vibrations the crankshaft produces under load which results in less wear and tear and more horsepower.
I have a stock corvette c6 automatic 2012 with a harmonic balancer needs to be changed, if i consider installing a supercharger in the future can i pin it now while I'm at it instead of gluing the keyway ?
Yes, if you're considering a supercharger at a later point, I would go ahead and pin the crank. ATI makes a kit to help. Will save you some time later.
@@ScrufsGarage Thanks !!!
My arp bolt has come out twice 15-20 min after driving. Do you know why this can happened if is installed correctly?
Honestly I'm not sure. Are all of your pulley's running straight? If there is a wobble in something, it might be imparting a harmonic vibration that's working the bolt out? Is the bolt coming out on an OE dampener or an ATI?
Scruf's Garage is coming out on a ATI damper. It was working fine with the OE damper. I just upgrade to a 8 rib set up in my ProCharger. Do you think if the belt is too tight it can cause this? Both times is came out just cruising in the freeway!
The oem bolt is TTY. I know it’s not safe to use it for the final install.
But Is it really all that safe to use it to get that balancer on? It could snap no?
While by definition you have gotten into the yield region for the bolt, you are probably still a long ways from failure point of the bolt, so there shouldn't be an issue using it during the install.
@@ScrufsGarage cool thanks for the reply. Would you mind taking a look at my other comment? About the dampener and the timing marks.
Where do you buy the balancer installation bolt?
I used an ARP Crankshaft Bolt (234-2503) amzn.to/2EvEkFv (Always be sure to double check the part # for your specific application on the ARP website). If you're asking about the installation tool I used, it can be found here amzn.to/2lC9Ngz Hope that helps!
@@ScrufsGarage thanks! Yes, sorry, I meant the installation tool. I need to buy one. Thanks for posting the link, but the link doesn’t work for some reason. Can you post it again. Thanks!
You're right, sorry about that. Here's one that is very similar. amzn.to/3o4qlNF The principle is fairly simple, thread the rod into the crankshaft, then use the nut/washers to pull the balancer into place. That way the tensile load is on the rod, instead of on the threads of the crank bolt. If you want to spend a little more, they make some of those tools with a thrust washer/bearing to eliminate the friction between the nut/balancer. Nice to have, but not necessary.
@@ScrufsGarage thanks!!
Are you supposed to use Red Loctite on the ARP bolt?
I prefer to follow the direction of the bolt manufacturer. So in this case, the instructions from ARP say to use their UltraTorque lube on the bolt. This helps ensure an even torque loading on the bolt. You would not want to mix the ultratorque and red locktite. If you are using a new OE crank bolt, I believe they already come with loctite applied. (The stock crank bolt is TTY, so you would not reuse the original).
@@ScrufsGarage Thanks! By the way, your channel is excellent. For a one-man operation, the videos are clear, well filmed and well done!
Thanks man, I really appreciate that. Always very happy to hear the videos have been helpful to others in their builds. Thanks for watching!
I'm here because my bolt backed out, and my awesome ATI made love to the power steering rack, i'm use lock tite this rounds
SoFLaZ06 that sucks. So in the original install did you use the ultratorque lube and torque the bolt to 235 ft/lbs? Assuming you were using an ARP bolt and not a stock bolt? What kind of driving? Street, drag race, road course?
Do you have any engine oil getting past that arp bolt? I'm assuming that your engine is in your car and running. I'm thinking about getting a new GM bolt for my install.
Carl Gentile you can always put some rtv in the keyway slot and a little between the washer and bolt head.
How come some pampers are thin like they don't have a pulley for ac
I believe you can buy the ATI w/o an AC pulley (like it you deleted the ac compressor in a race car), but the overall thickness would still be the same so that the main drive belt aligns with the other accessories.
Okay I was gonna buy one with out an a.c. belt.. But I see I can't do that i still got my a.c. Lol . It's hot in Houston thanks for the reply !
I hear ya. It's hot and humid in NC too. Can't live without AC!
Torque to yield bold are only used one time because they stretch so why would you risk the chance of using that old bolt to install the harmonic balancer, your taking a big chance of braking the bolt 🤦🏻♂️
Yes, TTY bolts set torque by bolt stretch, so they are one time use for torque specific applications. But it is still well within the working limits of the bolt from a fracture/failure prospective.
Did you let the rtv cure before Installation?
I don't believe I did. If I recall, I just put a dab in there during installation.
How did you keeps the motor from turning over?
I wedged a pry bar between some of the flywheel bolts and the engine stand. If you already have the flywheel installed, several companies sell a flywheel locking tool, which is pretty slick.
Scruf's Garage thanks I’ll check into that. The motors still in the car
Here's the flywheel holding tool I was thinking of. Should work with the motor still in the car if you remove the starter. amzn.to/2rjJ2jG
Scruf's Garage thank you I have it ordered
Awesome! Definitely post up how you like the tool!
Well damn, I just use an air hammer to run that crank pulley down
I agree. Owned an LS engined Corvette for years, and installed an ASP underdrive balancer/pulley, also installed a stocker size. A good investment is an ARP Crank/Balancer bolt, set your 1/2 drive impact to a high torque setting, and let 'er rip!!! You will NOT strip the threads of the crank OR balancer bolt, and you don't need a "flywheel locking tool. It works-Never had one slip or strip or come loose.
btw....Dontcha LOVE how these guys sit on their ass with a motor on the engine stand? Most of us poor blokes have to drop the Rack&Pinion steering unit before you can even see the balancer bolt. This job is a HUGE PITA!!!!
Cough drops!
Bs they have to be honed
What’s the benefit of this over stock ?
Chicken Foundation Your wallet get lighter
@@Mr.Beastforpresident weight reduction
OEM are not legal to race, they fail, and takes out vibrations.
just use a hotplate and push in on by hand lol
Put it in the oven first Jesus