The Uniform of General William Westmoreland | American Artifact Episode 129
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2024
- A graduate of the West Point Class of 1936, William Westmoreland served in both WWII and Korea before becoming the head of MACV in the Vietnam War. In this episode of American Artifact, we're looking at one of the pieces from the Vietnam War in the collection of The Gettysburg Museum of History.
This episode was produced in partnership with The Gettysburg Museum of History. See how you can support history education & artifact preservation by visiting their website & store at www.gettysburgmuseumofhistory...
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As a Baby Boomer, graduating high school in 1971, I can't remember a time when Vietnam wasn't part of our conversation. The boys in my class went from graduation to boot camp then Vietnam and hopefully back again. I was so very proud of each and every one of them then and continue to be proud of them now.
!969 here and you are so right. We all knew people, friends and families that suffered with KIA and severe wounds. We all were looking for deferments. For me they soon implemented the draft lottery, and it was the only one I ever won. My number put me in the lower third meaning congress would need to actually declare war. Back then you draft eligible to age 25, unless you got and educational deferment then your eligibility went to 34 as I recall.
3 yrs behind you. And I second that. The casualty reports on the newscast, choppers in action, etc. It was part of our growing up. Kinda sad to think of it that way, but, there it was.
@@bobbyd6680 i enlisted in the Navy in January 1968, right after my 18th birthday. At that time the draft age was 18, not 25. While I was in Navy Boot Camp, I received my draft notice. My Dad mailed it to me. He told me, "Son, I hate to tell you, but you've been drafted!" He thought it was funny. To me it was a close call. This was during the Tet Offensive which started early that year. I ended up going to Vietnam anyway, but on a Navy destroyer doing naval gunfire support missions off the coast.
I’m with you ,as a 1972 graduate ….that war was such a waste of lives , civilians & military…..and for what , political whims
@@williamscroggins9627 You miss understood. Draft age was 18-25, without educational deferments. Eligibility raised to age 35 if you had a deferment for college.
I was reprimanded in high school history class for using the word war when answering a question about Vietnam. The teacher went on a soap box. He had not served and I made mention of that. I was sent to the office. Principal called my Dad. They had played football together. Principal told Dad to come get me as I could help on the farm for the rest of the day and receive a better education there. Thank you for the upcoming Vietnam exhibit. These boys also had their youth taken from them. In school one day gone the next.
Thank you for this. Vietnam gets so overlooked.
Glad to share a bit of the history.
I was born and raised by a Vietnam veteran!! Would love to see more content like this!! Them fellas have never gotten the recognition they deserve. My dad went to be with the lord a couple of years ago. I carry one of his dog tags in my wallet!
wow Gen Westmorland visiting the 101st, that is the division my Dad served in Vietnam between 67 - 68. He was a Captain and intelligence officer. he was not Airborne though as it was Airmobile Division during that conflict. He was stationed near the City of Hue, very close to the DMZ. when he was deployed he left my mother pregnant with their first child, me. I was born while he was there.
After he returned he was laid off when the war ended as the army reduced its personnel.
He would finish his military career in the Reserves with the rank of Lt Colonel, not bad for a guy from a small town in Puerto Rico
he passed away in 2008, his cancer is listed as one of the possible effects of agent orange
very proud of him and his service
1946 may been the year he was born. I was born in 1947 and was there in 1968.
Welcome home brother
THANKS TO ALL WHO FOUGHT IN VIETNAM ….YOU WERE TREATED SO BADLY ….WE OWE YOU SO MUCH 🇺🇸🌟🇺🇸🌟🇺🇸🌟🇺🇸🌟
My father was born August 1948 & served with USMC in DaNang, repairing radios. While it might have meant something else to him , my guess is 1946 was birth year. I would also suggest that "short" meant he was almost finished with his tour of duty. Too bad we don't know whose helmet it was & I hope he made back to Barbara!
Those soldiers came home to a terrible reception - unlike what those of our other wars came home to. So to those who fought in Vietnam I say a job well done, thank you for doing your part & doing it well.
A shout out to the Gettysburg Museum of History for planning an upcoming exhibit of Vietnam War artifacts. This war, and particularly its veterans, have been so maligned and overlooked. And, a big thank you, JD, for this video. I am old enough to remember General Westmoreland from WWII, but did not realize he played a role in Korea and Vietnam. Well done!
Remember to THANK - All OUR Veteran's They gave So Much...God Bless...
I graduated from high school in 1969. I went to college 1 year then dropped out to work with my parents in their auto body shop. I was sent a draft notice after that 1 year stint in college, but was turned down for a back injury. I asked where they would've sent me for basic training & it was to Ft. Leonard Wood, MO where heavy trucks were. So I missed Nam. I've often thought about friends of mine who went & others who never made it back alive. I also thought a lot about what would've happened to me. Thanks JD for highlighting the Vietnam War. They didn't get the recognition of those from WWII.
My older brother was in college so he missed the draft. I was one year right after the draft ended. The last family member to go to war was my dad in the Korean War. He was in the Navy, but I never serve but my hearts there.
Line# refers to roster number. If someone is WIA or KIAd, or otherwise needs to be ID'd cryptically, over unsecure comms, his line# is used rather than his name. It's unique to his company/battalion.
That Line# was used for other administrative things, too, all internal within the unit.
Aahhhhh. Thanks!
Wonder what year that went into effect. While there in 1968 I never had a line #. Just my dog tags.
@@rangerbull You had a roster number. The US has used roster numbers going back to the Civil War and before. Whether or not your individual unit used those numbers depends on its commander. You never had a roster number even at Ft. Benning? Really? Numbers were used to ID individual soldiers administratively on company and battalion rosters. These roster numbers weren't associated to service numbers but the rosters clerks, 1st Sgts, and Sgt. Majors keep.
I graduated from high school in 1970 and was invited to join the Army 2 weeks later. The word Short is something that every soldier was excited for, it stood for Short Timer , time to go home. I hope the soldier wearing this helmet got to go home, so many didn't.
That’s a trip down memory lane that I will never forget. I watch this war on the evening news every night until it ended in 1975. Great video JD and I hope you’ll be able to do videos on this sometime in the future.👍😊
I have a picture of Westmoreland signed by him and given to my dad while in the Asain theater. As a kid, i wondered who that guy in the picture was. It wasn't until years later that i learned of his significance.
Wow!
When I was stationed in Turkey during the late 80s I had a countdown calendar for return to the states. My family was stationed with me, and my kids would mark the calendar each day. Same for when I was stationed in Panama. Seems like a lifetime ago.
Thanks for bringing the memories of our war. Line # refers to his birth year.
Short was a term we all used as we grew closer to our date to get the hell out and his countdown calendar proves it.
Westmorland uniform predates 1964. The name tag with white background and black letters and US Army in gold letters was did away with and converted to OD - olive drab….. for logical reasons. Same with the rank markings.
Westmorland was a good commander!
We won in Vietnam…. Our political system lost it.
Welcome home brother…🇺🇸
Very appropriate for Memorial Day weekend. Thank you.
JD thanks to the Gettysburg Museum for getting this artifact of General West Moorland’s uniform. And Erik for adding a Vietnam display. The helmets were awesome. Thank you for sharing!
💯❤️👊👍
I was pretty young during the US involvement in Vietnam but I remember seeing some of it on the nightly news. I worked with a vet in the 80s and spent a lot of time with him in the cab of an 18 wheeler going around the county. We had a lot of time for him to share some interesting stories. He was a little bit on the wild side of the spectrum, but he always had my back. Appreciate the look at some of Erik's artifacts from that conflict 👍
I think I've seen all of JDs videos and I do believe this might be the first one on Vietnam. Glad to see it... I was 11B 2/327th Inf 101st Airborne in 1969-70.
Well, there's also this one and the one right before it, but no, there's haven't been many. I intend to change that.
czcams.com/video/Maf9_wDMVow/video.htmlsi=xlTCZP0FKaQXnRAm
@@TheHistoryUnderground Oh boy! Looking forward to them! And I have loved every video you've ever done!
Thanks for another great episode.
Thanks!
Glad to see some videos on the Vietnam War . This war definitely needs more coverage on what happened and how it all went down ! Thank you for this !!!
Very interesting. That private was one lucky SOB having that helmet on. Glad to see the Gettysburg Museum get the generals uniform after the other store had shut its doors 👍
Okay, here we go!
First I agree with another commenter in that 1946 was probably a birth year as it was mine.
Second I was in country from June 68 to June 69. In many ways we all counted down the number of ways we had left before DEROS (Date Estimated to Return from Over Seas). Some marked it off "X's" through dates on a calendar, some put posted notes over a unfolded Playboy centerfold and each day removed a posted note. When you were down to less that 100 days you became "short" or a "two digit midget". When you were really really short you would say "I'm so short that if I sat on a dime my feet wouldn't touch the ground". So short on the helmet indicated the guy was a "short timer"
Finally, I was in MI (military intelligence [also known at the time as an oxymoron]). Because of the nature of my work I was not allowed to wear the Army Security Agency (SIGINT [signals intelligence]) patch on my uniform so I was told to wear the MACV patch. The toothed wall was going across the patch represents the DMV (De Militarized Zone) and the sword represented military forces in the south preventing the North Vietnamese from coming down and taking over South Vietnam. We all know how that worked out. Hope all this helps with interpreting the artifacts from that era.
Thanks! Appreciate that.
I saw another uniform that belonged to General Westmoreland at the fantastic museum at Westpoint.
👍🏻
Love your show...
Thank you!
It would be neat if someday you could go to Vietnam and see some places where some battles were fought like khe San.
On my list.
Thank you for showing these artifacts. I was a young child during this war, and these guys are my heroes
Really enjoyed the video mate can't wait for the next one
Thanks for this, JD.
👍🏻
Thanks! Im really interested in upcoming Vietnam videos
Thanks!!!
Your museum has some of the best exabits round
I was walking around in a goodwill near my home a few weeks ago and in the little section where the sell men’s uniforms I found a Vietnam war uniform shirt, it’s the BDU style that had the slant pockets… picked it up for $10. It’s got that old army surplus/gun show smell.
I love all of your videos man but i wish there was more vietnam content. Please keep it coming if you can!
Thanks for the video 😊
I would love to see more Vietnam stuff covered in this. Perhaps you need to take a trip to Columbus Georgia to the infantry museum!
If you ever make it out to the Pacific Northwest you need to check out the museum on joint base Lewis McCord, about 10 miles South of Tacoma, Washington. It may be close for remodeling in some spots now. But they had a very good section on the Vietnam war. Some of the items included articles belonging to General Westmoreland, including his 1911 pistol if I recall correctly. I would call ahead before showing up as there is a lot of remodeling going on. P.S. Love your show, great stuff.
My father was sent to Vietnam in 1968 until 1969 US Army. Westmoreland signed signed his Army Accommendation Medal paperwork and other paper work in his pocession. He said , " Westmoreland was a damn fine General."
Well had a wonderful visit to Gettysburg before memorial day and went to the museum. My friend and I met very briefly the wonderful gentleman who owns the place he took time from his busy schedule and spoke to us for myself it was like meeting a famous person. Now in my time in the army I met general Westmoreland in 1985 at fort Campbell when he came to dedicate the Rakkasan monument he was escorted by my company commander. General Westmoreland wore his dress blue's with all his full sized medals and I had the privilege of speaking to him and shaking his hand I met the man that was the war master. One very interesting thing is he had a combat infantry badge with 2 stars on it WW2, Korea, Vietnam. He was considered one of the immortals there was another soldier who I saw the picture of infact it was in our company area. Sargent Bly you know the same one who the band of whatever from the 506 threw under the bus and said he died in 46-47 infact Bly was one of the immortals like general Westmoreland and Sargent Bly served in Vietnam cib with 2 stars. I saw in and interview that Winter's did that he said he was sorry about that but oh well couldn't change it considering that the veterans of the 506th had a lot of say in what was shown on band of bulls**** they threw there brother under the bus for free drinks and a moment of fame.
I am confident that the loci of this comment contained interesting content, however, “@RakkasanRakkasan’s” dismal grammar prevented me from actually understanding its intended information.
I was in college when the war ended. I had my # picked in the last draft. I was lucky but it was on my mind all through high school.
A visit to the Vietnam Memorial in D.C. should be on everyone's bucket list. Looking at the reflections in the polished black granite is almost like looking to the fallen and to the missing.
Would also suggest a movie called "Faith of our Fathers" with David A. R. White & Kevin Downes. Sons of two Americans who fought together in Vietnam meet and take a trip to the wall.
Hey J.D., I know you love a good book and id love to recommend one that isnt well known but absolutely killer. Its about an American Indian (lumbee) from Carolina who done four tours in Vietnam as a Marine. He started out as a grunt in 65 and finished the war as a force recon dude,very accomplished soldier and i absolutely recomend Moondash Warrior, by Delano Cummings.
I am the daughter of a vietnam vet. It wasn't until about a decade ago that I started hearing stories of his time there. He was a tunnel rat, which he volunteered to do because he is a believer in Jesus. He also was a medic. His name is Ken Rickwartz.When he returned, he got off the plane,and a crazy woman approached him,asked him if he was a vietnam vet.Hesaid yes,and she slapped him hard across the face! He said that the governments of 5 presidents could have given them what they needed to win that war(and in short order, I might add),but they chose to tie the soldiers' hands instead.It was a senseless war.... My uncle also served there.
He is from South Carolina and went to the Citadel in Charleston South Carolina where he died but he was lay at West Point in New York
Looks like scott camil carrying that stretcher at 6:28 with the high and tight haircut. He was a part of the winter soldier event for the anti war movement. Hes got a crazy story.
Here is what I found:
Meaning of line 1945, Vietnam conflict
Line 1945 marks a significant turning point in the Vietnam conflict, as it was the year when Japan surrendered to the Allied powers, leaving a power vacuum in Indochina, which ultimately led to the rise of the Viet Minh, a communist-led coalition, and the beginning of the First Indochina War.
Key Events of 1945:
August 15, 1945: Japan surrenders to the Allied powers, ending World War II.
September 2, 1945: Ho Chi Minh, the leader of the Viet Minh, declares the independence of Vietnam, creating the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV).
September 1945: The Viet Minh, led by Ho Chi Minh, takes control of Hanoi and other major cities in northern Vietnam.
October 1945: The Viet Minh launches a revolution in Indochina, overthrowing the Japanese-backed Empire of Vietnam and seizing weapons from the surrendering Japanese forces.
Impact of 1945:
The events of 1945 set the stage for the Vietnam conflict, as the Viet Minh, backed by China and the Soviet Union, sought to unify Vietnam under communist rule, while the United States and other Western powers supported the anti-communist government in South Vietnam. The conflict would escalate over the next three decades, becoming one of the most divisive and costly wars in American history.
Key Takeaways:
The Japanese surrender in 1945 created a power vacuum in Indochina, leading to the rise of the Viet Minh and the beginning of the First Indochina War.
The events of 1945 marked the beginning of the Vietnam conflict, which would last for over three decades and involve the United States and other international powers.
The conflict was a complex and multifaceted struggle, driven by Cold War rivalries, nationalist aspirations, and ideological differences.
I have an original 1967 dated 173rd Airborne M65 jacket, with insignia still on, which is pretty darn cool 😎
Interesting. Westmoreland served as a Colonel as Chief of Staff in the 9th Infantry Division during World War 2, from 12 October 1944 on. He also served in the Field Artillery unit of the 9th Infantry Division during World War 2.
I was 15 in 1973 so I got off the hook because the draft had ended that same year, but in 1976 I volunteered, took the exams, passed it only to be classified 4F! I always wondered if the war in Vietnam was still going on, I would had been accepted?
Very cool
Gen. Westmoreland was from Spartanburg SC and was in the Boy Scouts while growing up. The local BSA Council Office has several of his scout uniforms on display including the one with his Eagle Scout badging on it.
Interesting!
I met Gen Westmoreland in 1980 at Natick Labs. The West Point Society of New England was holding a special event at the Officers Club and Westmoreland was the keynote speaker. I was a Captain at the time stationed nearby with the 10th Special Forces Gp at Ft Devens Ma. When I spoke with him at the club bar, he was surprised to find that there was an active duty SF Group in New England. It was during his time and Gen Abrahms time in Vietnam that there were deep rifts between the “Big Army” and the Special Forces community culminating in the court martial and subsequent acquittal of Col Bob Rheault who had commanded the 5th SF Group in Vietnam
I remember the news coming on at night time and I was told to go to bed.
My family fought every war in this country God bless America
Nice job with the General's uniform. You forgot his right sleeve. He was my Uncle Bobby Newman's CO in Korea with the 187th Airborne Known as the " Rakasans". They made two combat jumps in Korea. Please add a cut edge 187th. patch to his right sleeve and make us all proud. Both of them later re-connected in Pleiku where my uncle was 3 tour Army FAC with the 219th Avn. Co.
Thank you for the amazing content. Would it be possible to make video of Lauri Törni or Lauri Thorne. He have quite interesting personal background. Would be awesome. Thank you and greetings from Finland🇫🇮
Im a sucker for some vietnam content 🙌🏼
His jungle jacket and hat is on display at the Webb Military Museum in Savannah
Very nice uniform! Do you know if Eric tried to get the two uniforms of Westmoreland that were up for auction last year?
Hmmm. Not sure.
This war was the 6:30 news with Walter Cronkite to me always watched the on the news after supper! I had an ex brother-in-law who was there in 68! We had a nurse from my hometown church who was killed in Laos in 73 by the nva, she made national news! Her and another nurse were tied together in a hut and they set fire to it!
BRUTAL, BUT FACTUAL, AN ANTHEM OF PRAISE TO THE PORTUGUESE PRIVATE SOLDIERS. US General William C. Westmoreland, who in a speech to Congress said:
"Do you want to beat Vietnam, gentlemen? Give me 8,000 soldiers of these people, and this year communism will fall in the lands of Indochina."
“I have seen more numerous bodies of troops, more fought battles, but I have never seen, anywhere, braver men, nor more brilliant soldiers than those of the Portuguese army, in whose ranks I saw despising danger and fighting with dignity for the sacred cause of an Empire. convicted.
How many times have I been tempted to reveal to the world the amazing feats that I saw carried out by these virile and fearless Portuguese people, who have been fighting, for more than ten years on three fronts of war, against a powerful hidden force, the most fierce and glorious fight.
Those men who were unaware of the effects of an H bomb or the simple support of helicopters, come from lands from the mountains to the plains, each with their own personal story and motivation to go there, 10,000 km from home, to defend the ideals of a nation. long forgotten in a divided Europe.
I was tempted, therefore, to say that in that same Europe there were three true powers, each with its own shadow in the World: - American Europe, Russian Europe, and Portugal.
And it is this streak of people who are asked for so much for so little that, with such scarce means and very simple ways, carrying in their souls the shadow of the Portuguese Empire, they did not need the taste of Coca-Cola, the experience of drugs or hippie culture to combat.
They simply did it, and did not abandon their weapons for a wrong cause, but defended it not only for the people at home, but for the home there.
From Portugal, the oldest flowerbed in Europe, I saw green and ripe fruits fighting side by side with equal courage, as if combat were the livelihood of these people.
Do you want to beat Vietnam, gentlemen? Give me 8,000 of these people, and this year communism will fall in the lands of Indochina.” Publication in TIME magazine.
General William C. Westmoreland, in a report to the US Congress after visiting the Portuguese Headquarters in Nampula, Mozambique, 1971.
I am pretty sure the word "Short" refers to what we called when I was in the US ARMY a "short timer".. which means he was closing in on his separation date from the military..
I was 99% sure that’s what it meant as well but I wanted to leave a little wiggle room in case it was his last name or a nickname.
@@TheHistoryUnderground Yeah.. its possible.. But seeing the way the days were being counted down on his hemet, I bet he was a short timer..
My cousin has two Vietnam veterans brother husband too
I don’t know for sure, but Line #1946 could have something to do with a pending military promotion. I served 20 yrs in the USAF (retired 2015) and when our enlisted Airmen received promotion orders to the next higher rank, they each received a unique “line number.” This number was based on the overall quantity of promotees USAF-wide that could officially sew on rank monthly (based on overall service manpower) until they reached the end of the list. If your line number was lower, you sewed on sooner. Higher numbers meant a later sew-on. You mentioned the word “soldier” in reference to the helmet, but could it have been used by an Air Force troop? Not sure if the term “line number” meant the same thing in the USAF during Vietnam, or the other services - I wonder if anyone else could comment?
Interesting. Thanks!
A friend of mine his discharge papers were signed by General Westmoreland
If you all were given the choice to caretake Westmoreland's uniform, or the helmet of the marine, or any line doggy, which one would you choose? I'm not a vet, but I'm 76 years old.....
"A Uniform" would have been more accurate since the General certainly had more than one.
I was born in 1968. The Vietnam War was so controversial schools didn't teach it, other than the start and end dates. Oh, and how protesters were anti-American.
We were not taught about the reason it started, the role the US played, the number of casualties, etc.
If it wasn't for Hollywood or libraries I wouldn't have learned a darn thing.
Line # 1946 - birth year 1946 holding the line
Welcome Home Brothers. C 1/501 101st Abn.
God bless all Vietnam vets
Where are the general papers at? Did he have any work like a diary left after his passing? I am curious about what his thoughts were and not what a historian who never served thinks about his strategy
I served as a REMF in 4th ID 1969-1970. Helmet cover "art" was very personal, within confines of a particular CO. My guess on "Line 1946" refers to Date of Birth. He could have been 20 years old in 1966; a relatively early arrival. Not a fan of "fancy man" Westmoreland nor LBJ.
Just the mention of the Vietnam War is upsetting to me. Three friends drafted right out of high school came home in a box at 19 & 20 years old... not old to vote. In the days before student loans, only the rich could attend college. College deferments were given because they would be "a contributing factor to society," as if others were not. Nixon putting off getting out of Nom until right before the election to help get himself re-elected. College students protested, but not being old enough to vote, we were not being heard, until Kent State. At least we got the voting age lowered to 18.
same here my friend was there for only a week
This was my particular conflict 68-69. I don’t remember William Westmorland as an effective general. His strategy of favoring conventional large unit actions and measuring success by body counts was ineffective. His concept of taking a particular objective like a fortified hill or village only to abandon it was a morale killer for the troops on the ground. In truth though, like Iraq, it was a war we should not have fought.
has i recall we where not allowed to wear short sheeves in the jungle
I bet 1946 was the year he was born?
surprised to see no sidearm on a 4 star general..common sense would seem to indicate one would be worn
I was not a fan of president Johnson . Doing so much research connections with others . I feel like he was instrumental in the death of president Kennedy. Just my opinion. Love History underground, your videos are top notch 👍👋💕
ah a short timers calender. he was born in 1946
128th
Vietnam. What a disaster. I hope it is non-controversial to call Westmoreland one of America's worst generals.
John Wayne was one amongst very few who supported the US Armed Services during the Vietnam war. He made the Green Berets all by himself because he was disturbed by the way Americans were acting. General Westmoreland has a cameo in this movie.
👍🏻
John Wayne yeah was all for the war in Vietnam but wouldn't fight in ww2
@@alanmoon6274 could it be he was 34 years old, a dislocated shoulder, had 4 children and the Army asked him to help sell war bonds and visit troops on the front lines. Go give hunter another BJ loser. Or do your research.
@@TheHistoryUnderground Did you know Wayne turned down the leading role in the dirty dozen to make THE GREEN BERETS and recommended Lee Marvin.
@@jeffsquires6620 - Oh wow. Didn’t know that.
What’s that again on the second helmet Is that blood or rust
Rust.