Why use bilaminate construction? // VLOG S01E04
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- čas přidán 1. 04. 2024
- Bilaminate construction was popularised by Claud Butler in the 40s/50s, due to a shortage of materials after the war.
Can you use vintage technology to build a modern lugged frame? What if you want a frame which has lugs but off the shelf ones are not available, or the angles available don't work?
We still love to use lugs!
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Keep it coming Paul, loving this…….. inspired by knowledge and passion. More folk need to see this to realise it still exists and how the skills accumulated are hard earned and precious. Reminded me of the little known Italian lugged frame builders, often working alone, but the ones the racing teams, TDF, Giro, World Champion winners went to for the build of their bikes (but accredited as bigger sponsors bikes) ……..and I think that says it all about the origins of quality and the timeless nature of what you do. Crack on 👍
That is absolutely correct. Many riders did that. Our very own Danny Horton, who won the national road race championship in 1982, rode an EB rebadged as a falcon. Also other famous Yorkshire Riders like Beryl Burton and Brian Robinson did the same
Imagine my surprise when I saw you unpack my frame at the end of this video! "Wow, that's what I call well packed! Flippin' eck!" I'm almost embarrassed. Thanks Paul.
Came here from the custom frame forum. Really great work Paul! Pls keep making more videos of the filing/brazing/lugwork/fixtures etc... Can keep binge watching your videos, all day long :)
I'll try to keep them coming! Thanks for watching!
My first frame was a 1986 schwinn traveler, fun fact I was born in 1994… although it’s not a Paramount or a Madison, I love it dearly as it’s lugged and it’s “signature” blue paint job.
love the look of those bilam lugs, feels like a perfect mix of traditional and modern.
Of course, the tube material makes a tack weld possible. 531, for instance, doesn't allow for that, albeit a few experiments might be interesting, as any damage a tack weld might do could also be 'subsumed' by effective brazing.
What piques my interest is how a tack weld greatly assists assembly, and if done right, even on older tubing materials that aren't weldable, so little damage is done that it's still a huge net benefit.
My Dave Yates 631 is part lugged and part fillet brazed, whereas my Nigel Dean 531ST is all lugged. Both are a dream to ride, but the Dean has the edge on both looks and personality. For me a lugged steel frame is as good as it gets.
Very interesting details! It's not just the looks that intrigues me (any well made by any method frame can look great) but the *assembly* of the structure.
Googling on "631" Reynolds state:
[...][It can also be used for sports car chassis, suspension units, motorcycle race frames etc. in welded and fillet-brazed structures. In most applications, it should not be necessary to stress-relieve the weld zone.]
[...]
Even beyond the claimed '10% greater strength' (albeit there's always caveats to such claims), it's 531 on steroids in terms of workability in build.
This is fascinating! Even for repairs, this offers solutions not available to 531 or similar/prior. As to whether there's a consequence to the lifetime of the molecular structure is a good question. Lots of 531 frames still going strong (I ride one from the Seventies, "renovated by Argos" in the Eighties, and it remains the most springy (tuned perfectly for touring) and lively frame I've ever ridden.
Nice work on the bilam, thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Could watch hours of this, very interesting.
Thanks for watching!
Yeah, it's right at the heart of the creation of a bike.
Paul, I really like this video! But I have a question. After fillet brazing the "lug" to the HT the DT miter will not "nest/fit" against the HT because of the interior fillet?
Yes that is the case with this technique. Experience has shown it makes no discernable difference.
Oh btw, I was just wondering, what's your opinion on silver fillet (little tiny fillets) brazing a whole frame? I'm trying to learn brazing but find silver brazing much nicer than brass, with the lower temperatures and clean results and all that.
there is absolutely no problem doing this for bridges, as long as the mitres are tight. I personally wouldn't so small for the main tubes. There are silver alloys which are made for building fillets. Usually you build them up to a point which makes it easier to file them nicely.
Raleigh built some 753 frames with internal silver fillets that would have been quite small, but I think they built up soft silver fillets on the outside of the joint as well and added a couple of gussets.
@@ellisbriggsbikes Seems like something I'll have to experiment with, thanks for your feedback! It's a great inspiration having people like you on here.
I love a nice lug
No way,bring on the lugssss!!!
1:40 Abra File ? Where can you buy these ? Ive not found a supplier in years !
I don't think they are actual Abra File saw blades. But I get them from a supplier that does jewelry making tools
I'm split on this, I really love my bikes with lugs, they're absolutely gorgeous! They have a lot of personality too.
But I'd find it very hard to justify them nowadays when they add cost and a bit of weight, and aren't needed for strength.
Can't see lugs ever being mainstream again. Mind you I would never have thought hookless rims would make a comeback!
Ah, but the tack weldable quality tubing radically changes the doability of producing lugged frames at a reasonable price. Given the opportunity for someone like myself (Decades of soldering/brazing) to assemble a frame, especially a custom one without a fixed jig, the lugs would be a huge help. But so would the tack to pre-position the lugs before brazing.
This channel could spend more time on the subject, it's an avenue not explored by any other channel on CZcams that I'm aware of.
@@ellisbriggsbikes Hookless or hooked?
@@stephensaines7100 lugs definitely mke building jigless or "free" as it used to be called easier. Could you elaborate a bit more on what you would like to see? I could do an episode that includes how the frame is tacked once all the prep work has been done?
@stephensaines7100 hooked! Can't believe the industry is going back to pre war technology!
I love the smell of lugs in the morning....
I hope not because its still the best way to build an ultra strong frame PPL like trek charging 6-700 notes for a tig welded 4130, 520 frameset without even butting on the seat tube wonder why they go bust when the good times dont roll
What do you think? Are lugs irrelevant nowadays? Or do they still have their place?
It was only recently that I realised that by cutting out material in lugs and leaving the surrounding area intact, you have far more surface area that is brazed between the lug and the frame tubing. I'm not a fan of overly ornate lugs, some of it looks garish, but there's a real art in lugs cut for maximum strength with minimal cutting of material. Spreading the area over which brazing is applied by cutting the lugs not only would make for a stronger bond, but also minimise the chance of cracking compared to a much smaller area of contact.
Oversized lugset like richard sachs is the dream.
@@mj897 a thoroughly nice chap too
Call me old fashioned (I am!) but you can’t beat the looks of a lugged frame.
@@Frank-bb9lu I can't argue with that
I believe that Tig welding can produce a frame that works just as well as a lugged frame, and can be made with the same tube set at half the price, BUT a lugged frame can look like a work of art.
Yes you can definitely build a tig welded frame quicker and cheaper
But not as nice!
Why are lugs so popular over the pond but not here… is it just another trend!?
I don't think they are popular these days, not even in the handmade niche. Most agree that lugged frames have a classic look but it comes down to how long they take to build. While you can build a qr rim brakes frame pretty quickly, thru axles, oversized headtubes and bottom brackets, discs etc add a lot of complication to a build. Personally I think we need more frame parts availability to suit lugged frame builds, which is something I'm working on...
@@ellisbriggsbikes Well hopefully people are starting to wise up. I had enough of bicycle tech after the Shimano clutch era and I’ve been going backwards ever since. Disc brakes twist ya frame, oversized head tubes are harsh and thru axles are just a faff.
Surely Taiwan for frame parts…
keep up the good work, the tides are turning
I agree. I'm personally sick of the overly consumeristic bicycle business.
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