Anakin Skywalker's TERRIFYING Lightsaber Form Explained | Djem So Ataru Mix Style
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Simply put, Obi-Wan was the Order's shield while Anakin was the Order's sword.
Well put!
To extended the metaphor-Qui Gonn had been the orders armor. He protected it from others, and from itself.
Like this analogy
Excellently worded my friend
I would be the Panties of the order. Keeping them warm and comfy at night.
Hayden Christensen really put in the work. His light sabre skills and ability to remember those long fight sequences was unreal. Him and Ewan are fantastic. We need Kenobi season 2 and lots of flashbacks to see them fight from those days.
Obi Wan is arguably the best defensive duelist ever... THE master of Form 3.
A key reason why is because he had Anakin as a training partner. When your padawan is one of the most talented and skilled lightsaber duelists (if not the greatest) while also being highly aggressive, you're gonna learn to block and parry really well.
Never thought of it in quite that way, but it’s very obviously true in hindsight
Not arguable. He is the best defensive duelist.
Anakin Skywalker is the most talented and the most skilled duelist of all time. Also, Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest defensive duelist of all time.
@@Enoxificatti how can he be the greatest when he was beat twice by Obi. You can’t go 0 and 2 and be the best. Anakin was mercied ruled twice by Obi. It safe to say the Obi is the greatest duelist.
@@nickdovedan9020 you can’t really say 0-2 he did beat Obi Wan when he was weak and decided to torture him in the fire. Even though he wasn’t at full strength obviously but a win is a win. Plus the final duel in a new hope so really it’s more like 2-2.
Anakin was the Mike Tyson of Jedi duelists. A prodigy with unmatched speed, raw strength and talent. Overwhelms people with massive aggression and power, but he has to get to you early. The longer the duel goes, the more impatient he gets and prone to mistakes.
Eh, Against Obi-Wan I would say that is correct but against other sith he did not lose control. For the most part
@@MyHistory._. That is because Obi Wan means something to Anakin whereas Ventress, Dooku, etc don't really mean anything to Anakin.
and that's when he bit Obi Wan's ear off ;-)
Imagine if that wasnt the case with anakin losing patience. He would be unbeatable.
@@MyHistory._.
Anakin was able to (relatively) quickly overwhelm his opponents due to overwhelming power and offense. However, the true strength of Form V is to respond to an attack with defense then a strong offense.
If Form III is defense, Form IV is attack, then Form V is counter-attack.
Vader was the living embodiment of “Too angry to die”
Darth Sion: Am I a joke to you?
Maul and scion are better embodiments
@@thathappyhat936 I don't know, being chopped to pieces and burned alive are pretty harsh. Sion is probably comparable but I don't know about Maul.
@@AdeptKing How about this: Anakin had his arm and legs cut off (at the elbow and knee joints). He was then picked up by Lord Sidious and rushed to a medical bay, where he got actual medical attention. His love for Padme even probably played a bigger part in his survival than his actual anger.
Then take Maul, who was chopped in half at the waist (infinitely more fatal than at the knee and elbow joints) then fell likely miles down into piles of trash, then taken to a garbage world on which life and therefore food was incredibly sparse, even more inaccessible if you don't have legs to catch it with, and on which the atmosphere and air are terrible to breathe. He of course had no medical attention and was completely alone for years other than the company of a talking snake.
TL;DR Vader given medical attention and life support, Maul chopped in half and lived on a trash planet for years.
Sion takes that crown.
Anakin was so accomplished with his fighting style that even Dooku admitted that he was the best Djem So duelist the Count has ever seen
When? Because in the revenge of the sith book he simply said anakin was a fine duelist?
Did he admit that before or after getting decapitated?
Dooku called Anakin a fine duelist. If you watch his duel with Anakin in Episode 2, after he takes Anakin’a arm and pushes him back, you see Dooku take a very deep, noticeable sigh. A Padawan required his full attention and effort. A Padawan made a Sith Lord tired. Anakin was no pushover. Vader is a different animal entirely.
@@jatincranmore6616 Dooku defeated Anakin numerous times and never killed him because Sidious didn't want him to, plus hebwas already old, Young Dooku would've destroyed Anakin no contest
Hand chopped off by Dooku, legs and arms chopped off by Obi Wan. Electrocuted to death by the Emperor. 😬
It's always fun talking to people about the differences in fighting styles that Anakin and Vader use. By the time he's fully Vader in A New Hope, his style lacks a lot of the ability to include speed in his strikes, focusing more on the power. Losing as much of his limbs as he did, when combined with all of the massive burn scarring, he slowed down a lot, but had a lot more power to put into his strikes, which overpowered most everybody. Anakin, as you so fantabulously explained, made REALLY good use of his speed intermixed with the power moves. I'm horrible at remembering the form numbers and names, but I know the fighting styles pretty well.
Thank you for the epic videos, mate!
Also another thing that slowed anakin down as vader is the suit Palpatine put him in. He specifically made sure that the suit was difficult to maneuver in, along with making it weak to electricity and a couple other things, cause palpatine knew that if he didn't do all of that then vader would be able to overpower him that much easier
Mastering the footwork of form 4 and combining with what the aggressive attacking style the aggressive strikes are form five Anakin was able to move in all directions and attack from all different angles in this really did make Anakin an amazing lightsaber duelist this also allowed anything to knock count dooku of balance and defeat him in lightsaber combat
Imagine if was able to pair this form 7 or Windus modified version vepod
His Form is practical even for real-life fight. He kept the saber close to his body = effectively defensive, his 2 hands' blow are massive and deadly.
There is an extremely common misconception that Anakin only killed Dooku because Palpatine told Dooku to go easy on him or let him win. This is NOT true. I believe it was Dave Filoni himself that said in an interview that Palpatine had instructed Dooku to make legitimate attempts at Anakin’ life because he wanted to test Anakin’s prowess and groom him into a killing machine. The same is also true for their duel on Naboo in TCW at the end of the arc with Obi-Wan going undercover. Anakin was winning there too and very nearly killed Dooku before his Jedi conscience kicked in and he showed mercy. (Dooku then proceeds to make a butthurt comment about not being impressed with Anakin as he’s flying away). Furthermore, the ROTS novelization makes it abundantly clear that Dooku realized in their duel over Coruscant that he had to fight with everything he had or else Anakin would defeat him, which he did regardless. Dooku decided he’d be more useful to Sidious than Anakin so was absolutely fighting for his life with the intent to kill at that point. Anakin is the mf-ing Chosen One who relentlessly trained and/or fought nearly every day of his life. People need to give him more credit and realize that he had become an insanely skilled and powerful force of nature by that point.
Dooku wanted to get captured at some point, but he didn't want to lose. His general plan is to kill Obi-Wan, humiliate Skywalker (probably by taking another limb or two), and 'time to abandon ship' with Grievous with Palpatine in tow. Then sometime later, the Jedi corner Grievous in the 'epic culmination' of the war, Dooku surrenders and Palpatine is freed. Palps uses what happened to turn Anakin to the dark side. The Jedi Order is destroyed, one way or another, and Anakin is eventually disposed of as the pawn he is, and Dooku is given lead to make a new 'Jedi' Order-he's been constructing patsies throughout the war like Grievous and the scary CGI aliens specifically so he can spin all the war crimes on them and come out as clean and contrite to the public "It all just got out of my control" At some point he challenges his master to an honorable one on one duel aboard the Death Star, defeats him, and becomes Emperor Dooku.
At least that was his overall plan, before being beheaded by an angry teenager. And we know that Palpatine is pragmatic enough, he'd likely have gone with this if it had turned out that way. You know except for the last part. Dooku would have been disposed of as well, if not by Anakin, then by someone else. It was only a reflection of his Jedi training to assume that Palpatine would not betray him-a Jedi master would never do such a thing, after all. But his very naivety (which he maintained even as so called 'sith lord') would have made them exceedingly easy.
Anakin is my favorite Star Wars character. His lightsaber form extremely deadly.
@Igor Asadullin All you need to do is throw a Sith Emperor off the Deathstar and you gain a million wins! For the Emperor to return just to be killed again... Palpatine lost a million wins.
@Igor Asadullin he won the duel but lost the battle with kenobi by his arrogance look into the duel more kenobi was getting overpowered by anakin and losing to him that’s why he retreated to the high ground in the first place
@Igor Asadullin and he killed dooku obi wan lost to dooku more than anakin has and anakin never fought sidious with a lightsaber as far as my Star Wars knowledge goes only was struck by his lightning for getting out of hand or being taught a lesson
Djem so had a weakness for lacking mobility. Ataru minimizes that weakness with its acrobatic form
It’s wrong that Anakin used form IV during episode 2. He still used form V. But he used the Shien variant which is the blaster deflection variant (it’s still a good form for actual dueling though). After this it’s when Anakin switched to Djem So and not only mastered it but was probably the best Form V user of all time.
The shien variant wuz 4 driods was it not? So it wouldn't b used much in single blade combat
@@davidb8082
Yes, that applies to many basic Shien users, but Shien users of the highest level can actually use the blaster variant for lightsaber battles. Plo Koon for instance. And Episode ll Anakin (even though he had to change it after he got his arm chopped off). And Starkiller because he used the reverse grip which many Shien users have.
The fact is that a padawan anakin who had decades less experience than dooku who had been trained by yoda and palpatine and anakin still held out and dooku stated all he could do was dodge and block for a large portion of the duel
I agree, I liked Form V due too it’s Offensive and powerful strikes aspects.
@@jonahbliss8820 It's been some time since i read the novel for ep.2 but i recall that Dooku was impressed and almost shocked at how skilled Anakin is at such young age. He didn't like Anakin for his lack of discipline but always respected him as a fighter.
I think that Anakin was one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of his time. He had a very strategic and innovative mind that allowed him to fight in ways his opponents would never expect. In fact, I dare say that had Obi-Wan not known Anakin as long as he had, he might not have been ready for Anakin’s unique fighting style, and may very well have been defeated. Anakin’s weakness was his anger, though. Once he got frustrated, he made mistakes that skilled duelists like Dooku and Obi-Wan could easily capitalize on.
I have always been a fan of the odd numbered forms; #1-good basics and strikes, #3-great defense and defensive footwork, #5-similar to #3 but with counter attacks. I do like the first three forms quite well: #1 and #3 as previously mentioned with #2-the duelist form with parries, deflections and excellent offensive and defensive foot work.
I feel a similar way. I feel like if I were to ever train lightsaber combat, I'd go for Form I, Form II, and Form III
I remember watching another video on a similar topic. It pointed out that Anakin's new hand also strengthened his strikes which took Dooku by surprise since the last time they fought Anakin had 2 hands of flesh and his strikes were considerably weaker. This made Count Dooku over confident only to learn too late that Anakin got stronger, not weaker, by having a cybernetic hand.
the clone wars exist dude
If you haven't yet, read Mike Chen's, "Brotherhood" as this is explored in more depth while Anakin is still coming to terms with his lost hand.
@@DeadNexus yeah the revenge of the sith novelization kinda ignores TCW before it was written before TCW came out
For all of his skill in lightsaber combat Anakin Skywalker wasn't able to rip Obi Wan's defense appart despite beeing the one who should've been able to outclass almost anyone.
Anakin is his own worst enemy: offensive, single minded tunnel vision. In a duel he basicly operates like the incredible Hulk.
Obi Wan defeated Anakin because he could withstand his brute strength and outsmarted him by using the environment aka "The High Ground". Sometimes experience, patience and cleverness defeat even the most powerfull enemy.
I think it also has to do with what a mess Anakin's mind was at the time of his defeat, he had recently fallen after all.
@@revenevan11 And with what literally just happened with Padme and him feeling extremely guilty with Betraying the Jedi Order. Him dueling Obi-Wan really didn't help him at all.
Also training ani his whole life, he knows what ani is gonna do.
Obi Wan switching his style to offense was brilliant. Anakin is good defensively be Obi Wan is THEE greatest defensively. His defense is better than Anakin's offense. And being that Anakin isnt on his level in defense and the fact that hes familiar with how he fights the moment Obi Wan switch it was over...
Anakin is the unstoppable force to Obi-WAN’s immovable object; overwhelming offense against impenetrable defense.
In the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, Mace Windu advised for Obi-Wan to fight and defeat General Grievous because Obi-Wan’s mastery of Form III would be a fool against Grievous attacks.
I always thought that Dooku was going at
Anakin with kid gloves, so to speak because his orders were to bring him to Sidious unharmed. Eventually Anikans abilities grew so much that Dooku bit off more than he could chew.
I like your take on how Obi-Wan frustrated Anakin, because of the familiarity with Anakins forms of combat tendencies. This adds a realistic explanation, becase this happens in sports and strategy games all the time especially with fencing, boxing and wrestling. Great video Ty
Anakin was the Bruce Lee of the universe, he created his own style taking from all styles to create the most efficient and effective of all styles. Be like lava my friend 🔥
I’m a huge fan of Bruce Lee and can you imagine if we could have seen Bruce Lee as a Jedi knight? I have read the Lee would get very angry at himself if he tries something and didn’t get it right the first time. Have their ever been lightsaber nunchaku?
@@josephdial387 @Joseph Dial no, but I seen a youtube video with Bruce and lightsaber nunchacku, pretty insane😍
Anakin best MMA fighter
@@leiaorgana5098 And I heard he created MMA
Speaking of Bruce Lee.. Lol. Not Anakin 🤣
To seamlessly integrate all these forms together and perfect his craft... no question he was a Jedi Master at that point.
In the game Battlefront 2 (2017), they absolutely nailed Anakin's fighting style to perfection where each strike animation is flashy but also has raw power behind them with the intent of overwhelming an opponent.
Combined with his force abilities, he's a powerhouse and the most offensive lightside hero, but the thing he lacks is defense stamina. He's the type of hero where he needs to get the kill quickly before his stamina runs out, otherwise he's in trouble.
True to his character. Do wish they gave him a better stamina card but streamroll will have to do
The thumbnail gave me chills
I loved in the book revenge of the sith when they described how fast grevious' sabers are moving and coming down on Obiwan. Obiwan was a master of defense, and this analysis of how obiwan was familiar with anakin's fightning style is the best I have heard yet. I miss the days when so much love and care went into the creation of this universe.
Anakin was a great Sabersman, but he could never overcome his emotions whether he was Jedi or Darkside. Which ultimately cost him multiple saber battles, even in his prime. Anakin could never go Full Jedi or Full Darkside accepting all scarfices and conditions of either side. On the flip side he knew alot about both ways which gave him a huge advantage.
We only ever see him lose once after episode 2,When he lost to obi wan
Didn’t he lose as Vader against some lone Jedi in a comic or something.
I felt Obi-Wan had a slight edge over Anakin in their duel. Reason being, Anakin's Djem So style while aggressive shines best with counterattacks & parries. Since Obi-Wan's Soresu style is purely defensive, he's hardly gonna make offensive moves so Anakin is forced to create his own openings. Also, whether it was intentional or not, the duel moving to them fighting on top of those little robots and then the small platform would rob Anakin to use Djem So effectively because it takes wide swings.
Thanks for doing your video, really enjoy them!
I’ve always wondered how jedi choose which form they wish to study, if it’s chosen by their master than it’d be safe to assume obi wan had anakin learn the perfect offense to sharpen his perfect defense.
From what I know each Jedi can choose whichever form they wish to study and practice with masters maybe offering suggestions as to which style suits them best but I do not think the masters picked the styles for their padawans.
It's largely a matter of choice, and some opportunism. For Jedi under Yoda's tenure as Grand Master, Younglings would spend 1 year studying each individual Form 1-6 (Form 7 is heavily restricted), and chose which to favour for their Jedi career. Whom their masters are can impact which form a Jedi can learn as well, or how they learn to apply them.
Qui-GOn + Obi-Wan=during their tenure together both were Ataru specialists, Qui-Gon as an innovative Ataru master. Yet Kenobi would dabble with Niman and Shien as a Padawan.
Qui-Gon + Dooku=as a Makashi master, Qui-GOn's swordsmanship first drew Dooku's attention, and Dooku advocated for purist swordsmen to use personalization. Qui-Gon heavily revised Form IV, even using blade-binding and footwork over acrobatics, holdovers from Dooku's influence..
Luminara Unduli + Barris Offee=in Legends continuity, both functioned as overall Soresu practicioners. Yet from their supplementary skills, Luminara dabbled with Ataru and Makashi stances, while Barris has used Shien deflection parries.
Obi-Wan + Anakin=quite a complicated case. Anakin's talent and magnitude led to accelerated development, but Kenobi and other Jedi deliberately stunt him to impose humility, or out of fear towards Anakin growing too fast. Plus, Obi-Wan was reinventing himself by learning Soresu during this time, while Anakin learned SHii-Cho first then favoured Shien, with Ataru and Niman supplements. Kenobi at least was knowledgable about Ataru, SHien and Niman to a degree, but he and Anakin essentially were both developing their respective specialists-forms side-by-side: Form III & Form V.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 this was informative asf, much appreciated m8
@@geoffreyedgson7875 Holy shit! Can you break down more pairings? Like Sidious-Maul, Dooku-Ventress, and Anakin-Ahsoka?
@@thevegastan Most of my observations are drawn from attention to other fan-works; respect threads, VS series by Jensaarai One and Evannova95, plus personal observations.
For Sidious/Maul; the master was a lot more heavily involved in steering Maul to become an ideal assassin/tool for him. Maul was taught conventional assassin skills then introduced to lightsaber combat, but rarely witness or was invited to spar with Darth Sidious; logical for the Sith to prevent Maul from one day becoming a threat against him.
From the novel Darth Plageuis, Sith under the Rule of Two prioritized conventional or covert combat skills and their Force-abilities instead of pure swordsmanship. WHich makes sense as the Apprentice was an agent/tool under the Master, functioning as Sith Assassins, then to challenge the Master those students (Zannah, Plageuis, Sidious) evolved into Sith Sorcerer's.
Both Maul and Sidious practiced multiple combat disciplines, then orientated their skills towards Juyo. Ironically, both enjoyed drawing their enemies to them; Maul on Naboo, Sidious with Mace Windu (and in TCW's season 6 with Yoda). And both would open with saber-skills first before turning to their Force powers. Yet, Maul was a pure physical warrior with an ego, while Sidious was less enthusiastic about lightsaber combat and enjoyed mocking his opponents with his weaker skills instead of the Force.
Dooku/Ventress: she was already accomplished fighter when they met, whom Dooku elevated to truly among the best of their time. Dooku would apply pure Makashi, with components of other styles mixed in to his own technique; while Ventress was an inversion; Makashi was rare in her era, while Ataru and Niman were the most common-place styles practiced by Jedi. Implicitly, Ventress learned fundamental or intermediate steps of Form IV & VI, then became self-taught until Dooku shaped her into a Makashi specialist.
Dooku was apathetic and talked-down his foes; while Ventress would use shock-and-awe plus egotism to upset an opponent's composure, and both characters were extremely weak if they meet someone in their league with a focus on Djem So.
Ashoka/Anakin: they began with more parallels but evolved in opposite directions. Initially Ashoka studied Shien while Anakin was a Knight and 2 years away from becoming "The Djem So" master of their time.
Ashoka was Agile and measured, cutting down opponents 1-by-1, while Anakin was more fluid and direct. Instead of investing in strength, by the time she had her shoto, Ashoka was more invested in Ataru, and preferred to side-step opponents instead of using a steady block-and-riposte approach. Anakin favoured using a single blade, and disagreed with a reverse-grip, something Ashoka refused to abandon.
Evidently, Anakin aided her with some building-blocks, but Ashoka's more advanced preferences went in a different direction with few technical parallels with Anakin. Almost like a passive-rebellious teenager.
I’m surprised he would mix Ataru and Djem So since they were both taxing on the body, but i guess he just built different
He had enough force power to minimize the physical drain
I find Jedi pick styles that play to their strengths. In Anakin's case, he was young, fit, and had massive wells of Force power. So something that taxing would be sustainable to him. Whereas for Obi Wan, he is actually not that powerful in the Force, he barely qualified as powerful enough to make it as a Jedi.... he became great because he learned to be incredibly economical with his Force power usage. Getting the most out of every drop. That focus on efficiency, plus his calm and composed demeanor, fits Form 3 perfectly.
Anakin own downfall was his own. He could’ve beat anyone except yoda and sidious in the clone wars era. Obi wan said it best had he not been so arrogant and more composed he would have reached his full potential and became the strongest Jedi to ever live
If he couldn’t beat palpatine or Yoda, he couldn’t beat windu. Windu beat palpatine fairly and legitimately, George Lucas confirmed it.
@@cherm722 Exactly...Mace literally had a fighting style that reversed dark side energy back into the users pie-hole...People hyping up Anakins qualifications...smh...
@@jw1415 i think that's because Djem So is efficient against vaapad, as vaapad really let's your opponent counter attack wich is Djem So specialitie, though i think mac would win against anakin 6 time out of 10.
@@titouanvlieghe6190 mace can definitely beat Vader but not light side anakin
@@darkmagician2346 no. Absolutely not vader. See, vaapad redirects dark side energy back at an opponent and taps into your own inner darkness. 2 problems: it relies on your willpower to not fall to the dark side, especially against opponents who are extremely hateful (like vader.) The other problem is that vader also mastered form 7, and form 7 is more effective in the hands of a dark side user. So really, while also being a master of all forms (unlike windu) vader was also a master of windus preferred form that works better for him than it does for windu. What I'm trying to say here is that vader absolutely stomps on windu with medium difficulty.
Video: *Goes into immense detail about Skywalker's aggressive lightsaber technique and swordsman prowess*
Me: *Enjoying two people clashing glowing sticks together*
Haydens form is perfection, he has his own kind of relaxed shoulder stance and it's so signature for Anakin
I remember reading that Mace Windu considered Obi-wan the best duelist in the RotS novelization. He called him THE master of soresu and the blade of the Jedi.
Yes and thats true he was better with the lightsaber then anakin. Windu also said obi wan has no weaknesses with the lightsaber.
Sticking purely to lightsaber dueling, how would this Anakin have faired against Sidious in combat? Part of me thinks if Mace Windu had fully trusted anakin and brought him along, perhaps things could have gone differently. Anakin would have seen the brutality of Palpatine and not the weak, cowering old man he foolishly saved.
Anakin would have not stood a chance against Sidious. He was a mess a that point and no way focused enough to fight an opponent like Palp's
Anakin could totally beat Palpatine in a straight fight. His power was described as the best in his generation, possibly ever.
Which is why Palpatine, foreseeing that threat, worked so hard to subvert him. Because Anakin acting as he truly was meant to-embracing both sides of the force-become so powerful you can't stand against him. He worked very hard to make sure Anakin would always hesitate to act against him. That he would see him as a friend, a mentor, and a father figure. And part of Palpatine is that it wasn't even a total lie. That hesitation would cost him his life, however. Palpatine has no conflict, and he's all dark, all the way down. Bring anything less and you lose.
In a pure lightsaber fight, I see Anakin standing a good chance. Add in Force powers, then he's absolutely done for.
Palpatine is a shitty duelist all he has is speed a good analogy is that
There are 2 people one is a better swordsman and the other can move at lightspeed THAT IS EXACTLY HOW PALPATINE FIGHTS
Anakin was so desperate to save Padme… I don’t see him letting mace kill him… no matter what would have happened
Amazing video, thank you !
Amazing video of Anakin skywalker fighting style in Star Wars, fantastic job.
Anakin is aggressive
Me: *starts to think about the time Luke kept swinging at Darth Vader, trying to chop his arm off with multiple cuts* what form was Luke using...???
luke was using form 5
Form eight, O-jiiz, it translates to "lumberjack killing a rattlesnake"
He was using Freddie crugear form
Form 8 Des-per-ation! 😂😂
The really pissed off "Chopping Wood" technique.
Anakins duel ability was phenomenal, I really wish he would have reach his peak. He would be unstoppable. He used his raw ability with force and combined it with his dueling he could have beaten yoda and palps
1:54 I love how Obi-Wan composes himself as he prepares for the next battle.
Great work!
I've always felt like Ob1 and Anakin were really close as fat as overall fighting skill, with Mace Windu even calling Ob1 THE master of form 3 and arguably the best user of it like... ever, and Anakin having all the things listed in the video, great work By the way 👍
I love that Count Dooku even admits that Anakin is a fantastic duelist but then throws in his ableism. ("Were he a gentleman he would have learned how to duel one-handed instead of getting a prosthetic.")
Love your videos!
Tremendous 👏
Great observation
Remain positive and vigilant
I defeated him once, it only took a force choke/push off the into the ocean's of Kamino, in Battlefront 2 that is
GGs
I‘d say Anakin was strong as a duellist but but quite at the level of Mace. Mace basically perfected a form that was tailor made for fighting opponents like Anakin or Sideous. In a hypothetical duel Mace would be using Anakins greatest strength, his darkside power (which increases in a fight, like the duel with Dooku in ROS) against him. That‘s why he could hold his own agains Palpatine and Anakin is no where near Palpatines skill/strength.
I agree that mace probably wouldn’t have won, but sidious drew it out on purpose. In a one on one in which Anakin wasn’t a factor, sidious would have bested windu
@@thathappyhat936 george Lucas stated that Mace won fair and square against Sideous
@@ElazigFighter23 My mistake. Lucas does say that Mace won, but he never clarified if it was Sidious' plan or not. I guess it could go either way.
@@thathappyhat936 Wow, dude...What part of "fair and square" from George Lucas don't you understand?...Not that difficult, mate...Throwing a match isn't fair guy😂...smh...
@@jw1415 Well for starters, don't get mad, I'm just suggesting some stuff. George Lucas is, however, known to change his mind frequently. He also no longer really has any official say in how it is now. You're also going to have to forgive me for noticing that the one person who happened to remain alive until Anakin was the Jedi who most adamantly opposed Anakin's rise through the Jedi Order. Whether he lost intentionally or not, it played into Sidious' plans perfectly, pushing Anakin farther over the edge, and after his interference it was shown that Palpatine actually did have the power to shock Windu and blast him clear out the window. It just makes sense, in my feeble little mind at least, that Sidious likely could have won that battle had he used his full power.
Great video and content.
Jeez how many videos do you upload on a regular basis?
Since there's a lot I love you for it! Haha 👏👍👍👍
Being the star wars nut too as I said be4 in - Sidious vs Vader lightsabers only!
If one is going to mix Djem So and Ataru while leaving out Soresu, one is at least currently missing the point.
Edit:
Actually, even better.
Shii-Cho
- Form I is the foundation. Begin upon stable, sturdy and solid foundation. Stance and footwork is vital.
Makashi
- Form II is about attacks, while also aligning oneself with the blade one must wield. Defend others before yourself. Remember your own sworn desire to protect, uphold, and defend all that you hold dear. You may be last, however, you are here. You not only must wield your weapon, you must at least wield yourself and your weapon as one.
Soresu
- Form III is about defense. While not solely about defense, most seem to just focus on the overall patience needed to outlast in order to strike at the correct and opportune choice.
Ataru
- Form IV is about agility. In a less common angle, if one is fit enough, the force is no longer needed. However, when used by such a person, they can become even more effective.
Shien and Djem So
- Form V with its two variants has one concept. Defense to close. Shien is the basis for deflecting blaster bolts, and then later sending at least some back. Djem So is about combining, in the end, the best features of Shii-Cho as the foundation, Makashi as one being, both wielder and blade together, then Soresu for patience while using Ataru to control one's footwork in order to allow Shien to counter range attacks, before Djem So is used to deal with a foe.
Niman
- Form VI - While the above description of Djem So is only one single kata series with variations as it were, Niman is perhaps best put as the full breadth of the most effective available move set combinations while staying within the concept that a mind, while in a fight, will only fit so much information when being forced to concentrate.
Juyo and Vaapad
- Form VII and its two styles leads to the concept of if the foe is no longer a threat, then one need not defend. While Juyo was mostly started by the Sith, it is perhaps ironic, as Sidious would say, that the Jedi Master Mace Windu at least most closely perfected the idea behind Vaapad, which is simply put, a more refined Juyo. No foe, no need to defend. And as an added bonus, Mace could use the dark side in his said foes against them.
Jar'kai
- Two to three blades in total, or, inefficient twin double bladed lightsabers. Simply put, dual wielding or more lightsabers, in reference to blade count. A strong foundation of Forms I through at least VI, while most can stop at Form III, IV or V, due to Form III allowing a balance of attack and defend, one blade for each. Which leads to Form IV, which allows more movement and repositioning. Further, Form V can perhaps almost best combine the abilities of all the forms before together, while allowing a spread of at least one blade again for attack and defense. Adding Form VI after said Form V will only aid in the two styles focusing on the close and the defeat.
Edit: below are my own ideas for now.
Jan'pai
- Four blades, or, twin double bladed lightsabers, is perhaps the most truly terrifying form of lightsaber combat. Blade control is key, as one can be even more of a threat to oneself if not trained enough to be able to maintain blade awareness when literally unable to think about said threats location. Jar'kai is the foundational form for this perceived potential terror.
J'kun'tai
- As noted above in Jan'pai, or Four Blades, J'kun'tai, or single blade against four, is more likely even more terrifying than said Jan'pai. The amount of effort needed will usually mean that one is expected to tire with this style, and perhaps fairly so. Although, since this style is perhaps even more grounded in Soresu than any other,.. Perhaps just imagine that someone must be at least a true Expert in all of the recognized and formal Forms, I through VII, and at least passingly capable at dealing with a capable Jan'pai user.
someone did their homework
@@xxedgy_outsiderxx9978 /Nod.
It's my first time hearing of Jan'pai and J'kun'tai. Where did you know this?
Oh! Would that mean Obi-Wan used J'kun'tai against General Grievous? It makes all makes sense since at this point, he had mastered Soresu. The Council was wise to send him to find Grievous.
@@nightbringer8279 My own ideas currently.
The thing that makes stars wars have such compelling characters is the fact that the story feels as if it was written for the actor, rather than an actor taking on a role that was already written for any actor/actress to just come in and play the part.
It was made before Anakins actor was even alive lol.
@@TheSCPStudio the prequels?
@@TheSCPStudio /woosh
Dude you should write my master thesis. Your ability to stretch 4-6 simple theses into a 9 minute video is uncanny
So basically the brute force of djem so with the go with the flow of Ataru
Anakin was the greatest until Obi-Wan SMASHED him, outsmarted him, and left him with EMOTIONAL DAMAGE! Whether it was as Anakin or Vader, at the end of the duels, Anakin's impatience and need to win was always his downfall against Obi-Wan. To me that makes Kenobi in my personal opinion the better duelist.
"That's a lot of damage"
I agree, Kenobi deserves more props
Kenobi’s Form 3 is almost a perfect counter to Anakin’s Form 5.
Form 3 is defensive, reactive, conservative, and almost passive.
Form 5 is also defensive and reactive, but follows with power and aggression to wear the opponents down.
Form V is like a hurricane crashing against an iron bulwark of Form 3; all the bulwark has to do is endure and eventually the energy burns out of the hurricane.
Obi Wan is the all time worst matchup for Anakin but he is objectively not as talented of a duelist. Obi Wan is insane at dueling but his edge over Anakin was always more mental and emotional than physical. Even in the final duel in Kenobi, he initially loses to Vader and literally gets buried alive until he gets the deus ex machina will of the force buff.
Anakin’s weakness was his need to dominate rather than simply win or survive and the associated impatience that crops up in him when the domination doesn’t happen quickly enough for his liking. Anakin needs to beat Obi Wan to prove what he has believed to himself for over 30 years at the point of A New Hope. Otherwise he can never sever their connection fully from his point of view.
Obi Wan’s strength has always been cool headedness under pressure and an unbreakable will despite things looking fucked. All of his major wins over Sith Lord-level opponents have come after being on the backfoot for the majority of each duel. The major exception here being his final duel with Darth Maul on Tatooine.
This plus their master-student history makes him a match made in hell for someone like Anakin who never learned to control his emotions. Anakin has believed he was better than Obi Wan since around the time of the clone wars. But he has a mental block against Kenobi specifically due to the trauma and constant defeats he has endured at his hands. You can see this in the final episode after his mask is sliced open - he cannot fully immerse himself in the dark side when fighting Obi Wan, which compounds his natural disadvantages even further.
If they duel nameplates off and no all chat, Anakin fucks him pretty much every time. Kenobi’s strength has always been his mouth and mind rather than his body. The only reason Anakin lost on Mustafar was because of the opportunity Obi Wan created by specifically telling him, “don’t try it” after calling the duel (prematurely from Anakin’s perspective) when he took the high ground. Obi Wan saying that basically guaranteed that Anakin would try it lol.
@@zippo5294 and yet for all of Kenobi's skills, he could never defeat Dooku.
Not even once.
Only few years and Anakin would have been unvincible, remember he was only 21 years old when he turned to the darkside of the force, but if this would have happened a couple of years later obi wan and yoda together would not have been enough to defeat him
@Igor Asadullin using the force is different
Obi-Wan used Djem So in tactical bursts at critical times in the final episode of Kenobi, then fell back to Soresu when he adjusted angles and positions, confusing Vader. It's was a great tactic, and some good fight choreography.
Great edit at 8:45
He was among the top tier duelists during the clone wars (yes it’s a fact he was on Windu, Dooku, and even Yoda’s tier and Dooku WAS NOT holding back).
Also Ataru might seem like a lackluster form on its own, but it’s an amazing supplement to other forms. Dooku also used acrobatics to his Form ll.
@Igor Asadullin he wasn’t a padawan. He was a full fledged Jedi-knight, but they wouldn’t let him become a master.
Also dooku was holding back lol. Palpatine was using Dooku to lure Anakin to the dark side.
@@TheSCPStudio Dooku did not hold back, he lost fair and square to Anakin.
He got overwhelmed lol
Anakin vs. Darth Malgus
I get chills thinking about that duel. 🤔
Fearsome, AND fearless
I always thought that Darth Sidious was the best Light saber duelist, I kinda thought that he let Windu win the fight so Anakin could the Final Step to fully fall to the Darkside. But any way you always learn something new here.
Mace windu was considered the best duelist plus his style was especially effective against a dark side users plus I dount sidious would risk mace windu cutting him down when he's he's close to victory
I've mentioned how exceptionally dangerous he'd been if Anakin had been THE Order's "go to" when they needed an Attacker to quickly an utterly smash up something or someone in the way Kenobi was THE ultimate Defender WOULD he finally had been recognized as the equal of the likes of Yoda an Mace that he thought he was unlike later when he really would be? An or would he'd ALSO been sent against enemies like Grevious with a strong chance of even able to outclass an defeat such exceptionally deadly enemies since it stands to reason he'd be even MORE dangerous?? OR would he STILL not quite be there at the time he craved as a Jedi? Which we of course KNOW he eventually got to where he could beat Dooku BUT theorize Yoda, Mace an several other besides Kenobi could still crush him if they REALLY wanted which is something he was trying to work at an thought he already was at
That's usually why they sent obi-wan and Anakin together on important missions because they balanced each other perfectly. Obi-wan used soriesu to protect Anakin and himself while Anakin used his djiem so variation to smash through his opponent. Perfect combo
ending was dope, shout out hayden
Nice to see Hayden finally getting the credit he deserves.
If Anakin controlled his emotions and wasn’t so Arrogant. He would have been the greatest Jedi and force user of all time. Simple 💯
I think that only Yoda could have bested Anakin in his clone wars/rots era....
He would have defeated most of the jedi council, but look what Sidious did to 3 of the council in seconds...
A good video for the future,
Darth Sidious's lightsaber form, which was terrifying, how would Anakin have delt with that if they had dueled??...
Darth s used a force power thst paralysed the 3 others I believe
@@RoughTurbo Correct, force scream, they never stood a chance....
That's what I ment by terrifying...
Unfortunately not even Yoda could defeat him...
@@marcusroberts7624 if they stayed in the room yods could have taken him and look at mace but then again cid was a master manipler
I think plo koon or mace may have been able to potentially. Plo bested yoda in lightsaber combat
@Darth Desec Yeah we see that Obi-Wan can beat him
What a cool video
I wish there were some clips of Anakin vs. Bariss in this, especially near the end of the fight, he starts absolutely slamming on her
Always wondered how Anakin's aggressive form of Djem So would hold up against General Grievous. I honestly think Dooku would killed Anakin if he wasnt the chosen one.
Keep in mind that Anakin was born half force and half human. For all intents he was naturally superhuman. Him being the chosen one had nothing to do with his lineage. He was better duelist all around and if you watch clone wars you can see him slowly get the better of dooku.
@@Armor_of_Torrent well then that line of "I become twice the powerful than the last time we meet count" what?? You both fought like 3 days ago, if they said the last time they meet was with CW 2008 movie I could accept it.
Windu and Anakin would be Grevious' worst possible opponents not because they were stronger then everyone else but because they would be aggressive with using the force. Grevious has zero defense if someone just picks him up with the force and ragdoll him around.
@@legendhole432 well Anakin barely resorted to the force as a first instinct. I think he'd be too stubborn to fight smart against Grievous and just try to out duel him. And well, Windu has more knowledge and experience so I think he'd just use the force when he found out how skilled Grievous is.
@@legendhole432 he's able to lock his feet to the ground.
Gasp😲... Sacrilegious! Mace would have destroyed Dooku. Mace'S fighting style was a superpower in of itself...
I'm pretty sure dooku has beaten mace in a duel before? Look that up don't take my word on it.
@@dovasquad5228 Nah, think I'm good...Dumpster diving into contradictory star wars lore has one coming to the conclusion that an untrained Rey was able to hold her own against Kylo Ren in a lightsaber battle.
There is a reason why they call Form V “The Way of The Krayt”. But never the less, it goes to show how regardless, the best skill and ability cannot defeat skill and ability on an extremely high level that comes with the best mind (ie. OB1). OB, debatably the greatest Jedi just was averse to killing if possible VS guys like Anakin and Windu etc
These videos are soothing when you busy doing other shit
I got an Ultrasaber and I've been studying Djem-So, I love that form! Much like Anakin however, I want to perfect it to counteract the form's flaws. I'm trying to combine the power and precision of Djem-So with the defense and patience of Soresu; to put it simply, if Djem-So is Cobra Kai then Soresu is Miagyi-Do.
Lol you do know that those forms aren’t real right?
@@emansfvera Neither is Pro-Wrestling or Steven Seagal's fighting style in a real fight. I know it's not real, genius. But, it's still fun, you can still go to those conventions and play-fight with others within the community and it's surprisingly good exercise; like fencing or Tai-Chi. So I'm pretty sure what I like ain't any of your business. *waves hand* Now you wanna go home and rethink your life...😘
these titles are ridiculous. "the ONLY person palpatine FEARED" "Dooku's TERRIFYING lightsaber hilt" "the DISGUSTING truth about x"
My favorite!
Mace Windu was one of a few Jedi Masters who only exclusively used Form 7 I believe it’s called known as Vaapad. The only form used to take out Dark Side users.
So basically form 7? By FAR the most difficult to master and the only form that can break through a form 3 masters defense but form 7 was weak against form 2s thrust and form 6 force attacks.
Form 7 was the most aggressive and unpredictable form of them all, mostly dark siders used it, except for Mace.
Form Vll is neither weak to Makashi or Niman.
Vaapad shares neither of Juyo’s weaknesses.
People seem to have this confused and misinformed.
Niman is not a trump card to Form Vll,neither is Makashi. Just as Djem So will overwhelm Makashi with its kinetic strikes Form Vll will do the same.
@@tonywright9906 Exactly
Anakin's lightsaber form was as vicious as they come because he was so aggressive with it.
They were like yin and yang to eachothers fighting style
Thumbnail 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I wish the writers/director of Kenobi would chime in...its great to speculate but Kenobi beat Anakin twice and was throwing boulders left and right at Vader while Vader didn't use any telekinesis and got pummeled again and again all while Kenobi fought with an aggressive form...I wonder if the writers just wrote what they thought would be the best story or did they feel Vader/Anakin was the superior duelist but was just too overcome with emotion to fight effectively
It was stated at the end by Sideous that Vader is weakend by Kenobi because of his feelings. Vader isn't fully tapped into the dark side which weakens him. It's because of his complicated past that he just can't get over when it comes to Kenobi. That why Kenobi had the upper hand.
Actually fantastic observation. Obi-wan is recognized by almost every jedi as THE master of form III, soresu. Which is all about defense and outlasting your opponent until you find a knick on their defense for a decisive strike. Vader spent almost all of his career developing his form V djem so, to completely annihilate form III as it was the most commonly prefered form of light saber combat by all jedi's and obviously, obi-wans.
However as you noted early on in the fight obiwan switched from soresu, to form IV, ataru. Which was his original combat style as a padawan as well as qui gons preferred combat style. This style is more commonly known for being overly aggressive with powerful blows, non light saber blows, and acrobatic movements. Vader went into this fight expecting obi wan to use his preferred style which he had already mastered fighting against, which is why switching to form IV gave obiwan the edge in the fight.
@@mprieto57 I already consider these points, and they are good points...however my counterpoints are 1) Did Sideous just call him weak to get him back on task? He was a master manipulator and he didn't witness the fight. 2) If this was 5 years in I would say its possible Vader may not be fully into the darkside yet...but 10 years? He sure looked fully tapped when he mercilessly was massacring those villagers...not saying ur wrong...u may be right...would just like a more official response from those that dictate cannon.
@@collettk I don’t think he was completely against Kenobi. He’s conflicted against him. That’s why when he tells him “I’m not your failure Obiwan” he said that as Anakin. Then Vader comes in and tells Obi-Wan he killed Anakin Skywalker. He’s going back and forth internally and it weakened his connection to the dark side. I would say Obi-Wan and Ashoka were the only ones who could do this to him.
In Rebels when it’s said “we need not be enemy’s” that’s not Vader talking, that’s Anakin. If it was anybody else (other than Obi or Luke) he would just destroyed everything in his path. When she cuts his mask he calls her name. Then Vader comes back.
These are examples of Vaders internal struggle with Anakin Skywalker. Anakin loved them both.
@@KindDmoN But you can't really call someone one of the greatest lightsaber duelist...possibly 3rd best behind Yoda and *I forgot the other guys name*...and claim he's even better as Vader...and then he gets beaten by a known and common style (Form IV), one he used to employ himself...it just has me call into question all of the "Cannon" lore content providers share on who is better then who when Vader was suppose to be better then Anakin...hadn't been seen by Kenobi in 10 years but Kenobi just won because he was familiar with Anakin's style...he's suppose to be almost an entirely different person...and one that is far superior...I feel like the we need answers from the writers
I disagree that anakin was the better duelist against obi-wan. Part of the duel is a mental aspect. Obi Wan was able to out maneuver him, forcing Anakin to make a mistake. That's why I feel Obi-Wan was the superior duelist.
Obi-Wan clapped Anakin's cheeks not once but Twice!
To put it bluntly anakin was the superior sword man ( like put them in a ring and he eventually win ) but obi wan was the greater duellist using fully his surroundings to his advantage ( like bronn in game of throne ) .
love the thumbnail. :)
I love how he fights one handed as DV!
Obi-Wan was absolutely a better duelist than Anakin in Ep 3.
Anakin may be more skilled with a lightsaber, but that's irrelevant. As Mace Windu famously said to Obi-Wan "What weakness does your Soresu cover?" None, and that's why Obi-Wan was the better duelist. Because he wasn't relying on 1 skill - he was well rounded, balanced, and able to use his opponents weakness (impatience, hubris, denial) against him. So Obi-Wan was the better duelist, despite Anakin being more skilled with a lightsaber.
It’s not just Anakin’s skill, it’s also his tenacity and raw power, his will to succeed. While yes this can sometimes blind him, the only occasions where it costed him was when he was still a padawan that hadn’t refined his lightsaber form. The second occurrence was when his mind was clouded by the darkside. Ep 3 Jedi Knight Anakin was his best we’ve seen on film. There’s a reason that he was able to best Count Dooku where Obi-Wan was layed out.
Rey's form is -1, Marie So
Rey was a newbie so, yes, her lightsaber form wasn't as good because she didn't learn in the Jedi Temple. Her training was started by Luke and then completed by Leia, and even then Rey was still a newcomer to lightsaber dueling.
@@patriciahayes2664 he’s saying that she’s unnaturally good with no training or experience and so should be absolutely terrible. But she isn’t. Because she’s a Mary Sue.
Darth Jar Jar beats Rey
^^^
Please do another on Anakin’s style and skill with the blade but as the crippled and mechanised Vader. How it evolved and how that explains what we see in Kenobi, (him vs Reva, him vs Obi Wan twice), Rogue One and the OT.. love to hear your thoughts.
You read my mind! Just saw that you’ve already done one! Great job man
I really really really want a what if short-series or one-shot type thing to see Anakin at full potential and a 40 something year old Jedi master. Mentoring his son Luke who is equally as powerful. Crazy that Anakin was closing in on the number one spot as best duellist at what, age 22? Wild.
Anakin was so confused before his fight with Ben. He had been crying and even lost his Sith eye during the fight, which to me showed he was conflicted and unsure of his place. He didn't get his Sith eye's back until he was defeated and screaming, he hated Ben.
Not to mention imo I think he uses form 3 Soresu sometimes also just not on the level that Obi-Wan was on obviously. But learning under Obi-Wan their moves are almost an exact mirror of each other except Anakin’s style is more Djem So aggressor after he lost his right arm. Also I liked that you noted Anakin’s original form was form 4 Ataru because it was also Obi-Wans until ROTS. I’ve rewatched both Obi-Wan fights against Maul and Dooku and he spins a lot which is a focus of Ataru. Funny that Dooku made both Obi-Wan and Anakin change their combat forms😭😂
I _used_ to be a big fan of Star Wars. But after countless hours of watching deep lore videos, I'm a freaking FANATIC.
It always makes me so sad.... what could have been!!!!
Obi-Wan won the duel because he defended Anakin's hits, making him losing a lot of stamina because all the anger in Anakin was consuming his energy, making him looking strong, when was actually running very fast out of stamina. That's why he became very aggresive and mad when he didn't broke throught Obi-Wan's defense. Obi Wan was the master of Sorescu, but he knew some of the defensive part of Ataru. That made him win at the High Ground moment because he knew that Anakin knew just the offense part of Ataru, which didn't include the acrobatics, which Anakin hated. Obi Wan took the high ground and Anakin, in his blind anger, attacked with a part of Ataru that he didn't knew. In that moment Obi Wan stroke down Anakin with a decesive critical hit.
Obi-Wan got the high ground like forever
Luke used a similar style to his father, and being directly trained by Yoda himself is an added bonus too.
Anakin is the most flashy and most fun to watch fight
It should also be noted in Rebels, Anakin was shown to have made adjustments to Ataru to counter multiple blaster users, which was the common weakness to the form. You can argue that this is due to Anakin's talent but it does make sense that it could have been done given that the form first created by masters of Soresu. It shouldn't have been that difficult for the Jedi Order to develop Ataru to have a defensive feature or instruct students to use the form with Soresu, which I always thought how Ataru should have been used
Super effective on younglings
I really want to learn Anakin's Djem So and hopfully master it like he did in Ahsoka
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I think in the duel vs Obi-Wan, Anakin starts using Ataru and slowly transitions to Djem So as the fight progresses. He starts very mobile and super fast with a flurry of attacks prioritizing speed over strength for his attacks. As the fight drags on with his attacks start to carry more power but his attacks are slower. I don't remember every Anakin duel from the Clone Wars but I remember the one vs Barriss Offee where he clearly uses Djem So. His strikes hit Barriss like a truck which is reminiscent of how Vader fights. From his first duel vs Dooku, idk, we can't see much but it lacked too much speed to be Ataru although there are a lot of overhead strikes.
It's kinda funny no one in the entire jedi order, but Anakin, discovered that if you combine the aggressiveness of the aggressive form, and the defensiveness of the defensive form, you get a pretty good form