He should have just ignored it. Give a clown a victory and they don't stop chasing that clout, ever. Being hypersensitive and proactive to online criticism only sounds like a good idea. It really isn't. Same is true of politics. You lose when you acknowledge the absurd claim.
@@10k-Noodles It was a matter of integrity. And as he stated, once he knew what he put out was false, it also then fell into slanderous, libelous territory. Doing this video just means he's obviously a bigger man than "some other" people...
@@ninjafrog6966 No he didn't. All he had to do was take down the original. That would have legally "covered his ass". *This* video was legally and morally going the extra mile. It's pathetic, the number of you cynical punks who are trying to make this apology something that it isn't.
I met these two characters in Tears of the Kingdom and I'm not sure what the Japanese version says, but they blatantly call each other "best friends", which may have been NoA making the whole situation less creepy.
Seeing as NoA also removed Zelda refering to Link as "あなた", a phrase typically used by spouses to refer to their other spouse, Fish and Hylian may be a couple
@@Tsumami__ “adults are not friends with kids” isn’t completely true, when I was a little kid I considered a lot of the adults around me (teachers my friend’s parents ect) “friends” and they mostly played along as not to hurt my feelings. So if it’s mostly on the kid’s part it’s not too bad, but If the adult is very adamant about it and they have no valid reason (such as being their relative and wanting to be a positive person in the kid’s life) it gets weirder.
@@Tsumami__ Adults can be friends with a child in a mentor esque way as long as the adult maintains clear boundaries and they aren't like hanging out alone, though this is a situation where the localization team are doing their best to remedy a creepy situation even if it's only really a bandaid.
Not having her age in TotK could be a very deliberate way to show that she is indeed stuck looking like that long term, since as the American localization implies, even for a Zora, she seems to be developing slowly. As for the translation in BotW, I absolutely see it as an attempt at making it “less weird”, in that “let me remind you I’m actually a 1000~year old dragon!” Fire Emblem Awakening kind of way.
As someone who works with localizations sometimes - we are rarely given context, especially for side text that's not related to the main story or important dialouge. Usually you just get plain text to translate with a bit of context and that's it. I'd imagine in this case if could've looked something like "here's a dialouge for this side quest about a hylian and a zora exchanging letters, just keep it wholesome" and that's all you need to make a mistake when you don't even see the characters. Changes often have to be made later on like you mentioned. Thank you for making a follow up, I just watched the original video for the first time a few days ago and it didn't sit right with me
That reminds me of a voice actor who wasn't given a photo or much context about the character he was doing. And he gave like. The absolute opposite voice of the character and the voice was off lol
the "girl and boy exchanging letters" is a very old romantic trope, so I can see were the translation team could have assumed that. And in Manga and Anime the "person finds out the person they were corresponding with is nothing like they thought they would be" gag is also played often. Like in Links awakening were the poet thinks he's writing to a cute princess but it is actually a goat lady who sent a false picture because she is scared to tell the truth. So might be some cultural/humor thing that did bad in translation in the end.
@@mange2696 That's kinda what happened with Revali too. In the original japanese version, Revali was a lot less condescending and rude. The voice actor read the dialogue he was given and thought he sounded like he was being a jerk, so he made Revali sound like a jerk because that's what the translation came off as.
That's also just an odd thing with Zora physiology. She might be older than him when it comes to her actual age. But we don't know. All we know is that they live way longer than most hylians. Sidon looks and acts like early 20s, but he's like 130
No matter what her actual age is, she's a child. She has not matured to the level where this kind of relationship would be acceptable. And considering she hasn't changed between BotW and TotK, and yet Tulin has, I think it's clear that Zora mature much more slowly. For all we know, they might not reach sexual maturity until they've reached, like, 70 or something. Honestly, dude might die of old age before she becomes the Zora equivalent of a teenager.
@@jayredd8340 definitely a possibility. The wiki says mipha was 55 years old, to links 17, so age comparing get wonky. She said she wasn't a child, but it can get confusing on that front. Nintendo is a more family focused company, though Japan does have overall different views on these things compared to western countries.
I will maintain my stance that by playing UP the catfishing angle the localization team was attempting to make it very clear that they are not what the other is looking for in a romantic partner. I also believe that even with the correct interpretation of koi, the original japanese is trying to emphasize a misguided one sided infatuation from Finley, as you surmised. As other comments have pointed out, while I don't know the japanese text, TOTK has these characters refer to each other as friends. On one hand I feel like if she really was waiting for her growth spurt its weird that they didn't show her visibly older, but on the other hand aging her up could just as easily be misconstrued as a justification.
Yeah that what I got even from his video it's a catfishing and miscommunication. She thinks he's some big hot guy and turns out even tho she's older than him she's still child Zora so they end up in what I assume is supposed to be a funny miscommunication that ends no where and they can just be good friends because they get along.
Okay but, even if there was no infatuation at all, can we all agree that a side quest where an adult and a character that looks and act like a child meet through letters and then in person without her parents' knowledge with NO consequences in a CHILDREN'S game, is innapropiate to say the least? It really doesn't matter if Finley is older. Kids are not gonna know that. What the hell I didn't know that until I made some research and I'm 20. There are no clues on the game itself to understand she's not a child except for what, her saying she's not a child? Really? It breaks my heart coming from one of my favourite games of all time.
@@krissfernandez2244 I guarantee you barely any children did that side quest. I didn't even know it existed until the OG video. And this is why PARENTS exist, because they're supposed to PARENT children and tell them what is and is not okay. Don't expect the english translators of Breath of the Wild be 100% responsible for the actions of preteens and teenagers (because lets be real, a child under the age of like 10 wouldn't be able to play this game most likely).
@@SylverScourge What, parents are going to monitor every second of gameplay and every line of text on a (mainly) HANDHELD console? Even if they were supervising and watching it on a big screen they would have to pay immaculate attention to every line of the quest to have spotted this. It very much IS the responsibility of game-makers to make their game child friendly, IF they are going to seek out a child-friendly rating for the game. That's literally how game ratings work. And also you clearly don't understand how children work if you think you can "guarantee" that "barely any children" found the quest. Literally millions of children have played this game, even if only 1% of them found the quest, that's 100,000 kids exposed to a very questionably presented relationship. It's presented as "totally fine" for an adult man to maintain a friendship with a prepubescent Zora. That is absolutely terrible messaging.
even when I saw the original video and compared the direct translations with official localization, I mostly saw what you concluded here. An implied romantic relationship that the localization tried to add details to make it less creepy. I disagreed with the video then, but never really found your conclusion as offensive. That being said, huge respect for being willing to admit mistakes and taking steps to rectify any harm that could have come from it.
Aging her up wouldn't have even made sense, considering it took _100 years_ for Sidon to go from looking about Finley's age to looking like a full adult Zora. Finley mentioning she's a late bloomer implies she's already in the Zora equivalent of mid to late teens, and growing slowly, which, I estimate means she's got about 20 years or so once her growth spurt begins to finish growing to full adult size.
The "late bloomer" thing was added by the localization team, not in the original Japanese text. Obviously, the Japanese devs for TOTK won't try to close out on this.
@hikarinosakura That doesn't knock out my entire point... or even any of my point. Sidon still took a century to develop from a small child to his adult size... and there's nothing to say ANYWHERE that he didn't stay small for most of it and just get a sudden growth spurt all at once towards the end. In fact, support for this possibility is implied by the fact that when he was younger, at some point between the Calamity and BOTW, he was still small enough to be eaten whole by an Octorok but old and mature enough to at least be _receiving weapons training and be trusted with an actual weapon._ He had a spear and knew how to use it, when he was still very little, probably about Finley's size. So it is actually very likely that Finley might be childlike in size and stature, but in actual maturity at least of middle or even high school age, and really is awaiting a final growth spurt.
@@GuukanKitsuneThere's nothing to say that Sidon hasn't been fully grown as we see him in BotW for at least a decade or two. Most of the evidence we have indicates that Zora likely hit their prime age and start to age *really* slowly after that. To the point where even in old age they still age super slowly. King Zora in Oracle of Ages is old when you meet him 400 years in the past and looks identical 400 years later.
@765craven4 This is an entirely valid hypothesis and wholly possible but a little less supported... although it also might outright interlock with my guess because they're not actually fully mutually exclusive. Zora might stay small for a really long while, get big all at once, and then from there age really slowly all the rest of their lives. Mind that Sidon was considered 'adult enough' to carry, wield, and train to use an actual weapon when he was about Finley's size (He had to have been in Zora standards at the least post-adolescent to teenage maturity for that, especially since Zora children OFTEN make reference to being 'old enough' to do various adult things telling us the Zora do hold maturity standards and don't just hand kids spears, and about that size to be swallowed whole by an Oktorok). Another alternative is that Zora are like a number of kinds of sharks and fish, and do not grow larger as a result of AGE so much as as a result of AVAILABLE FOOD... meaning a Zora's apparent physical 'maturity' and size is not really a matter of their age so much as how much they are able to EAT. Which, of course, would explain why their King is always bloody well MASSIVE and their Prince is likewise significantly taller and broader than the average Zora. Of course their royalty eats better. I might also point out the interesting tidbit of how Muzu is not even as old as Dorephan. He was a 'young fish' and Dorephan had already been king a while when he became the advisor. Though the exact age gap is unclear, this implies he was in his physical prime and youth when Mipha was around and that it is possible he dislikes Link so much because of his clearly unrequited love for Mipha... implying that while Zora are long-lived they do age regularly... but as long as they are well fed enough to keep growing they basically don't age at all, a characteristic again shared by a number of fish and sharks. Which is an interesting idea. Also I wouldn't look to anything from the Oracles games as... official.
@@GuukanKitsuneI don't see why the Oracle games can be considered any less official than Minish Cap. All are canon to Zelda and are on the official timeline. And the Oracle games are more recent than Ocarina of Time in release order so it's not like the age of them can bring into question their canonicity like with ALttP.
2:42 While that not being intended, I think the thumbnail really gives that vibe with how threatening it is, especially since Finley is the one who started the whole thing and talks about it romantic while Sasan seems very reluctant once they meet but the thumbnail makes him seem like an aggressor.
I like it and I think it's fine. Started as a long distance relationship without either of them knowing what the other looked like. That's the point. They made a lifelong friendship out of it, and if it became something more, who cares? The fictional girl is old enough to make her own fictional choices
@@highcaliber350 no, she isn’t. She’s a child and he’s an adult. Much like Link is a child when he meets Mipha, yet she is an adult already. It’s wildly inappropriate.
That’s some respectable integrity, and donating the ad revenue. It’s good to see you sticking to uploading what you’re passionate about instead of what gets views. For that I thank you😊
WARNING: LONG POST There's a lot of weird toxicity in the comments from the two extremes of "She's obviously a child and this subplot is vile for existing" vs "There's literally nothing wrong here calm the heck down." I lean more toward "calm the heck down" due to 2 very simple sentiments: Real life situations and writing shorthand techniques. I'm about to turn 28 and I still regularly get mistaken for being like 14/15. Other than weight gain, I haven't physically changed much since I was 13. I always have to have my ID ready if I'm buying alcohol, I've had people at weed dispensaries squint at my ID before because they thought it was fake, and I get age-shamed in certain situations for being too young to understand things that I may actually understand better than anybody in that conversation. Everybody over the age of 30 treats me like a child when they first meet me. Looking young has literally made my life harder to live. If a partner left me because I wasn't aging as much as them, it would break me, just as it would if they did it because I was aging faster than them. Either way, it tells me that they were with me for looks alone and didn't actually care about the person inside the skin. And I don't even have a glandular condition, either! I'm just Youthful. There are adults who never hit puberty because their brains just didn't release the puberty chemicals. That doesn't make them children. Their brains are still fully developed. They just look like children because of a chemical imbalance. And some of them are Happy about it. They deserve to live as the adults they are, with the same rights and privileges as anybody else. On the other hand, child-coding in media IS a thing. It usually means an adult character having childlike traits to show that - even if they are an adult - they have a lot of personal growth left to do. Physical traits (small stature, baby face, low physical strength - traits that only effect the character in question) usually refer to personal issues regarding self worth and a loss or lack of control over one's own life, whereas psychological traits (impulsivity, obsession, naivety, obliviousness - traits that effect other characters) reflect social imbalances in one's life, such as a lack of a permanent peer group or poor bonds with family members. These things can be combined to show an adult character that very much hasn't had much personal growth beyond the point they display. But that doesn't mean they are actually a child. They are still an adult and deserve to live as one, just as anybody in real life is, because art imitates life. The good, the bad, the ugly, and the downright strange. That being said, creeps can and Have used these tropes to do harm to actual children. But they will use literally any media the kid enjoys to do that, and what an individual does with a piece of media doesn't and shouldn't reflect the author's intent. The intent here is clear to me: Finley clearly feels as though she has no real control over her life currently. She's desperately trying to blossom into adulthood, but is being held back by an overprotective mother, a sudden crisis to her home, and a lack of social outlet. Finding love is something that she CAN control, and so she clings to that in a desperate attempt to rectify her issues. The fact that she hasn't grown physically at all in totk reflects the inadequacy of this outlet. She hasn't really learned anything in the 5 years between games, she's still very much just filling the hole that is her poor social situation and lack of control over her life. I suspect that, if they make this a trilogy, the next game will have her grown just a little bit, so you can help her grow further. That's ultimately what this subplot is: helping a young woman grow into adulthood. TLDR: Everybody needs to calm down and stop assuming the worst possible intent over every choice in fiction. Real life adults who look like kids exist and don't deserve to be gatekept from typical adulthood activities. One's interpretation of a scenario in media doesn't reflect authorial intent, as these are very common shorthand techniques to tell a story without having to TELL the story.
I know this comment is incredibly silly, but I honestly kind of found it upsetting because the original video had me reanalyze myself, and made me feel guilty about my relationship with my boyfriend. Only really because I saw parallels to how Finley was treated very similarly to how my boyfriend is. He's small, and is regularly mistaken as a teenager (to the point he's almost constantly labelled as my younger brother, whenever we're on dates together) because he looks so young. Despite being 3 months older than me. (Both in our early 20s) I knew Finley wasnt actually a Zora child, theyre arguably comparable to a 19/20 year old human in development, but I was too scared to really say anything because I didnt want to be labelled as a "creep" for insinuating Finley is not a child just because they're small, and tell the comment section that their relationship is okay, even if they are just best friends. Because I know body size doesn't matter, its mental development. But people don't like hearing that, especially with that video and the direction it was heading. I really didnt want to voice my criticism. Apologies for the weirdly personal comment, I just had it on my mind since the original video off and on, and I saw this video pop up on my feed. i hope you have a wonderful day.
Thanks for this update! I was also shocked to see Finley still looking small in TotK, but I'll admit that one of my few gripes with the game is how few NPCs acknowledge the events of BotW. It's had me mulling over Back to the Future-esque timeline hijinks 😂
Well, think of it this way: The castle oozes calamity, Sheikah Guardians go crazy, and shrines and towers show up everywhere. Hero beats them, The previous Royal family, thought to be dead show up and day is saved. About 5 years later, Castle Floats, Gloom oozes out, Holes and chasms open up everywhere, Islands in the sky show up, and ruins rain down every ten seconds. Oh, and the princess disappears. Are you going to worry about the previous disaster while living the new one? Someone bombs a bridge, then 5 years later someone similar but different nukes the town. Which are you more worried about?
I never thought I’d see a follow up of that particular video 😭 I either interpreted it as the localization either being sus or made a dumb mistake in misinterpreting how friendships worked. I still wonder how Zoras get growth stunts and how long it lasts. I already heard people be like “nah she lying because kids lie” when it comes to Finley saying that she isn’t a child anymore and it frustrated me. Not every adult looks like an obvious adult. I don’t even look like one either (I am 24 and I still look like how I looked back in 5th grade due to a growth spurt early) It’s a shame Finley didn’t have much of a change of her appearance in TotK, but I understood because Zora age slower. I’m pretty sure soul mates can be non-romantic in general, but not everyone thinks that. So message of the story: Nintendo is also weird and makes legal l0lies lmao.
I'm somewhat sure that those growth spurts last between 1 and 7 years, since in ocarina ruto ages considerably from "Child" like to "Adult" like in the time We don't see her, which Is 7 years. I'm fairly certain the procces Is faster, but I like to keep a wide gap of posiblity, since not everyone grows at the same rate irl
@TermicrafTeron 27 the thing to keep in mind was the species are very different than Ocarina. Not only are the Zora far more obviously fish-like, but they have far longer lifespans. We don't know the Zora lifespan but we know they evolved into the Windwaker version of the Rito, which is very different than the current iterations of both species.
@@josiaharaki7310 even that may be wrong because we don't know if the zelda timeline is Cannon to these games wich considering the storry of totk probably not
There is a (SPOILER ALERT!!!) small "sidequest" in TotK that has to do with a father being worried about his young adult daughter, who was guarding Sidon. Apparently the young adult is sixty years old, newly into physical adulthood, so Finley is most certainly not far behind and just a late bloomer. Finley's "favorite person in the whole world" is her Hylian, and Finley's father confirms she's a young adult, so in all honesty I'd just let the matter rest. The pair are obviously very into each other and I don't think he is going to make a move (if he's so inclined) until her body catches up with her mind and her technical adult status.
Yeah, with TotK involved Finley does come across as just a late bloomer, with that amplified by the differences between Zora and Hylian development. Also, Sasan and Finley were just adorable in TotK, going on an adventure together and the best treasure being spending time together. That helps.
@@keiyakins They're absolutely devoted to each other and they were both happy they made memories together in their side adventure. Before you finish the water temple, poor Finley's so sad and put out about Sasan not being there and being worried about him, you can find her swimming morosely in the central area where the old Shrine used to be in BotW. That's pretty hardcore devotion.
Yeah even in BotW they made sure to state that Finley was far older than Sasan. Not to mention her dialogue outside of the quest supported the fact she had feelings for Sasan. Was fairly obvious they had feelings for each other, clearly wasn't a matter of localization but naturally, Zelda fans will try and bend and twist things out of shape the best they can. The original video was so silly, trying to portray the quest a certain way and make a big issue out of nothing.
Some of the comment threads in here are wild, the projection is real. Social media has really done a number on people, hasn't it. It's fascinating to watch but also quite nauseating
I think it'd be a good idea to add a link to the original video to the description, but leave it unlisted so that those of us who haven't seen it can understand a bit more of the context, as I feel like there is a little bit I am missing. Since it'd only really be accessible via this video, it would make people go into it already knowing the part that is flawed, and to not pay attention to that information
You made a previous video regarding this?! I never got to see it. I just did this quest yesterday, I had encountered the guy at the entrance of zora’s domain and I was so confused and weirded out when I reached the end of that water rising shrine quest and saw that little zora 😅
Classy way to handle this, man! Discussions and mistakes aside, this quest did catch me off guard when I played it first back in BotW, haha. I expected it to have a comical ending where the Hylian man realizes how small is "love" is, and awkwardly has to turn her down. Was a little disturbed at the outcome. It's a shame, because if it were a quest where you're just uniting a Hylian man and GROWN Zora woman, I would've actually found it real sweet. I think watching interactions between a couple like that would make for a wholesome little adventure. There could have even been a quest in ToTK where you've found that they've settled down in Tarrey Town or something.
honestly I like the theory someone made that they just didnt bother making a new model or adjusting it so that you can see she's small but still not a child. So this on top of the localization made the quest look REALLY weird. I would just like to think she's a petite young woman, she does mention that she didnt hit a growth spurt but I dont think she would have been THAT small otherwise(or at least not with those proportions)
@@Gensolink She IS a little child. She said, "I promised my mom I wouldn't go too far". Adults don't talk like that. And don't give me the "it's a platonic friendship" or "Zora age slower" bullshit. Even if it was just a "platonic friendship", he should be friends with adults his own fucking age (when 30 or 40 years old adults seek to have "friendships" with 5 or 6 years old little kids, be very afraid, that is NOT normal and it never ends well) and a little girl who promised her mom not to go to far because she's too young to understand danger and risk should not be travelling around on our own with some strange adult. She's obviously a child and y'all fucking know it. Also, she's the same fucking age and size as the little Zora CHILDREN playing together in the throne room in TOTK while the adults try to protect the city from being too damaged by the sludge, she's clearly not an adult. As for the "Zora age slower" bullshit argument, it sounds about the same as "it's okay to marry off underage girls to adults because they're "mature" faster than the boys and they're most fertile when they're 16". Gimme a fucking break. Seems to me like people are trying to make excuses for adults having innapropriate contact with kids. Get some fucking help, you creeps.
He was that small 100 years ago, so he’s probably around 130-150ish? Whereas Finley seems to be about 60ish (based off of one of the other Zara’s dialogue) so 5 years isn’t really comparable to Sidon’s 100 growth period. I definitely get what you mean, though
I love you for confessing mistakes! And it's interesting to learn along with you why the original video was probably wrong. I had never thought about localization the way described, so i felt like i was learning slong with you. Thank you for teaching us!!
I watched the first video last week and I was wondering why you had left out the fact that Zoras age much more slowly compared to Hylians, with Sidon being the prime example because he was a child before the BotW events and barely a young adult 100 years after. It's good to see that you corrected your own mistake.
do you need me to spell out how maturity works or age of consent? LIKE RLY see a therapist this shouldnt even cross your mind they physically mature slower there for we should not even consider that a option
@@diveblock2058 Do you know that for sure? We don't have a specific age for Finley, nor do we know much about Zora development. Honestly, given that neither Link - who spent a lot of time in Zora's Domain as a youth, so would definitely know the rough outline - nor the other Zora around react badly, I think it's more reasonable to conclude that Finley is, in fact, considered an adult. It's still pretty weird from the external-to-hyrule, real-world perspective to write her in a relationship when she looks so much like a human or hylian kid, but your accusation is nonsensical.
@@keiyakins yes i do indeed know that for sure and you should stop trying to justify this predatory behaviour...the entire story is about her not being old enough and even if she was a adult its still not ok because she looks like a child so even if we disregard zora biology and take your explanation you are still a god dam predator and should seek mental help
This seemed like an incredibly sincere and truly humble apology - not a lot of 'mitigating' your own mistake, just very openly admitting and clearly describing your errors. This speaks to man of character.
The reason they didn't make Finley older is because the growth rate for Zora in the BotW and TotK rendition is that Zoras seem to age waaaay slower than Hylians. In fact, Sidon was a child in the events before the calamity, even meeting Link. When Link was a baby, Mipha was already a full-fledged zora woman. So that's probably the reason they didn't age Finley whatsover in TotK even though it takes roughly 6 or so years after BotW (Since Hudson has a young daughter which can already speak, run, and has aspirations of making the pilgrimage to Gerudo).
I appreciate your work so much NBC. And the fact that you take the time to put out videos like this, correcting mistakes and taking responsibility for it is incredibly admirable. I love your videos and you’re my favorite “dude that talks about LOZ on CZcams.” Keep up the amazing work
Ran into Finley in totk and thought her name sounded familiar, totally forgot about this whole thing. They definitely called each other best friends at one point, removing the possibility of it being romantic
@elfilin 0502 You'll come across people like that from time to time. Also, I get that they were trying to draw clear lines in TotK, I was just being pedantic in my earlier comment.
@@bendragneel5337 I can’t remember the name of the place but it’s where the snail shell geoglyph is, find the cave in the edge of the island furthest away from the geoglyph and there is a shrine and a mini quest thing
I definitely dont think that the devs or the localisers wanted these two to come across as a romance but that is how it comes across so i dont think you were wrong for interpreting it that way. Good on you for correcting yourself tho
Hey. Your commitment to context and unbiased clarity is why we keep coming back. There’s nothing to forgive! I’m still uneasy with the quest, but - Thank you for a follow up.
Zora in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom seem to age/grow slower than other races. Sidon, who was around for over one hundred years by the time the gameplay of BotW starts, is now like an older teenager/young adult. So the young Zora in this video wouldnt have grown as much as all the other races within the time span between BotW and TotK.
What are the chances that I just completed their shrine quest in TotK minutes before you posted this. My thoughts went right back to that video you had posted about them. I am still a bit creeped that she looks so much like a child in the years following BotW (Zora being slower to age), but I’m glad this video was made to clear things up!
I mean it's only been likely 6-10 years and it took sidon atleast a 100 to finally get his growth so it would make sense for her to still not have the growth.
@@RedTheWeebIt's pretty inconsistent though. Riju hasn't grown an inch, despite that timeframe (which is backed up by Mattison's being able to read and write at a basic level) putting her somewhere between eighteen and twenty-two.
why would they age her in Tears of the Kingdom if Zoras take so long to age and grow up? it would go against the lore if she looked taller in only a few short years. also in the english translation she actually sounds a lot younger with the added text, like a rebellious teenager still acting like a kid, whereas in the original japanese version with just one simple sentence she feels a lot older. i really wish translators would stick to the original text. i know it can't always be word for word, but adding dialogue is not translator's job and they change game developer's creative choice by making certain character be certain way by taking liberties with their own uncalled for additions. i never thought it was anything weird or wrong because of Zoras being what and how they are with aging and it's astounding that people actually took offense to that particular quest originally. humans in general have a nasty way of interpreting anything in life to their own view of the world without thinking about the context and that little side quest suffered for it.
It really helps my faith in humanity to see these kinds of things. The strongest trait a person can have in my opinion is the ability to take responsibility for mistakes, big and small, prevent repeating those mistakes by being self aware, and to be humble about it. Thanks, dude. Seriously.
We now live in a fantasy world where people prey on any inch others might give them for online clout. Said people then log off twitter and stare at their problems they can't solve, family and old friends who no longer like them, and log right back on to pretend as if they care again.
@@pineapplepenguin1759 yeah, I made that conclusion before I even understood pe**philia. I am pretty sure I didn't even understand *** at that point. I just thought like, oh that's nice she just looks younger but they love each other. Kinda shoved it in the back of my head and didn't really think about it. But looking at it in a different light, it could've been handled a LOT differently. But it's just a fantasy world, and I was never too heated about it. Especially considering it was made in Japan. Personally I won't stick up for that type of justification. But as a world builder in stories myself, "size" is much less of an issue unless your fictional world is meant to reflect on reality. There is a difference between those with dwarfism or medical conditions that make their bodies unable to look any less childlike and actual children. I took her lack of "size" as being a growth spurt thing and it didn't occur to me to be a creepy thing at age 11 or whatever age I completed that quest at. Considering it also isn't a human race and people also push for vaporeon. I really don't care lmao. Sorry about the length of this response. Have a great night.
That’s really cool of you to do! Even with the errors, which as someone who can read Japanese, I noticed, I still really enjoyed the video. Are you able to reupload a version that excludes these mistakes? Just talking about the side quest in general, you know. Of course if you don’t I get it.
I don't think aging her up in Tears of the Kingdom would have worked. Other characters we see have aged up a little bit, and it's made known that the Zora age slower. So if she aged at about the same speed as Tulin and Riju it would feel like they just threw out the whole aging slower thing, and might even make it weirder that she was a childlike in BOTW
Honestly I already respected you for being probably the most thorough Zelda channel around, but after seeing this video my respect for you like tripled. Good job man ❤
I respect your decisions to call out your mistakes, not only taking the first video down, but making a new one that is not monetized. It shows your character and integrity, something that is needed more on the internet. Thank you.
They kept her small in TotK to show that after several years she is still the same size, showing firsthand how slowly they grow and indicating that she’s probably decades older than her friend.
Even though you took the original video down , I appreciate knowing the lore of the side quests between Finley and Sasan because without your video I wouldn't have recognized Sasan at the beginning of Zora's domain. I wouldn't have gone out of my way to talk to Finley later on and to even do her side quest had I not watched your original video. So I at least appreciate knowing their lore now so I could appreciate the fact that they were included again in TotK
Dude, you've set a great example of what every CZcamsr should be. Hell, what every PERSON should be. It's important for both content creators and the audience to understand that there can always be more to every story, and you really went above and beyond to rectify your mistake. I really respect it!
My french canadian translation was the friendship dialogue not the romance at first the hylian was excited if not horny to met a Zora girl but wen he actually meet her his tone is more nervous and call her best friend etc as if he was unconfortable with the result
Good since I met these two again in Totk and I was still creeped out. Glad it's just an innocent friendship cause yikes, Finlei literally looks like a toddler
I appreciate that you're taking steps to correct what you said in the video. Most people would likely have just kept the video up and pretend like it never happened, so good on you for owning up to your mistakes! ❤
Could you make a new video on the topic of the localisation of the quest, and the game in general? Not about the perception of the quests per se, but about just how different the North American version is from the Japanese version; and maybe include other dialogue that had been localised differently; such as the first\third person views of quest descriptions, and such. I believe discussing localisation, and possible reasons for changing content - especially if reasons are given by the localisation team(s) - is important.
Realizing more and more that while the translation team have some problems, like kiddifying their dialogue by sprinkling puns all over it or hammy lines, a lot of other shortcomings do come from a difficulty of translation on an artistic level. Yes sometimes you get it wrong badly like with Zelda talking about Ganon giving up on revival. But a lot of it is like for example shintoist lingo being so baked with meaning and loaded with theme which can’t directly translate into english in a cohesive way and so they must be simplified, or even different new things added to recover some lost meaning.
Shows a lot about a person when they own up to a mistake as unintentional as this. Good job for clearing up that misconception, and even donating some profits to charity!
I remember reading the Rune Factory 5 localization team talking about translating the game and how they only had the dialog, no visuals to work off of at first. They had to fix certain things after inserting the English dialog and seeing things that didn't work
Loved running into Finley and Sasan in TOTK and seeing how explicit the dialogue was about their friendship being purely platonic. Immediately thought of your video and wondered what your thoughts would be on this. Never expected such a mature and responsible reaction though, I have low expectations from most content creators these days. You never cease to amaze me NBC, keep up the good work!
Genuinely hard for me to enjoy the game after learning about this. Like I cant look at this game anymore without being reminded of it I think other people feel the same way so they're trying to create copium excuses like "oh actually shes not a kid because of the lore and zoras age slower blah blah blah" shut the fuck up, shes a kid. She was designed to look like a child and written to act like a child. They could have simply chose not to do that. I didnt find this sidequest in botw, but according to some comments here, it STOPPED being a romance after they actually met eachother, like he didnt know she was a kid until they met and they just became friends. I didnt read all of the dialouge for the english or japanese version and I'm just going off of what people told me, so I hope thats true, that would make it a lot less gross to me. Still weird that they contrived this scenario at all though. edit: Ive come to the conclusion that I do actually believe that they just became friends, but I still find it a bit weird Note that I am not trying to cancel the game or say you shouldnt play it or whatever, just that it personally makes me uncomfortable
In tears of the kingdom they explicitly refer to each other as"best friends." nobody refers to their romantic partner as a "best friend" imo so if it makes you feel better, they are in fact platonic friends
I didn't see that video, but you seeing that you made a mistake and took some sort of action to make things right shows so much strength of character you honestly don't see from people that you should nowadays. The way they made Zoras age was a weird change. Eversince OoT it has been understood that Zoras age similar to hylians, but come BotW they age very slowly in the physical sense. Even Mipha said she was amazed at how fast Link seemed to age compared to her since she knew him since he was a young boy, and she stayed mostly the same. So if your going by actual age Mipha could have been like 60 or 80 when the Calamity happened and Link was only around 18. Heck Sidon is at least 100 something and looks like a bodybuilder in his mid 20s.
Even if Zoras age slower and she’s a lot older than him, it’s still wildly inappropriate and creepy that there’s any romantic plot between someone who looks like a child and a grown man.
Thank you for the update. I still think that the translators need to be careful about how they translate media from other contruies because not checking your sources accurately can create controversy like that the side quest. At best, its misleading and at worst, it's sanitization.
You do have to consider a few things here... 🔹We don't exactly know what age either are, but Finley says this... _"...with that delicate penmanship, I suspect he's quite refined. Regal, even! If he's a Hylian, I do hope he's OK with being with a Zora who's _*_considerably older_*_ than him..."_ Then, Sasan says... _"...But I CAN assure you that she writes in the sweetest, most refined way ever. She must be a very elegant young lady. Actually, as a Zora, _*_she's probably a lot older than me._*_ That doesn't bother me one bit, but...I hope she feels the same."_ Now, if a Zora doesn't come of age until, say, their 30's or whatever, and she's scheming on a 20 year old, SHE'S the creepy one in Zora culture. I mean, who's cradle is being robbed here? Sounds like the Hylian's. He just likes an older woman, which by Hylian standards, would be considered a mere preference. 🔹They call the differing tribes "races", but with their vastly different histories, evolutions and life expectancies, they must be separate *species* altogether, right? So it's beastiality, which is WAY worse than what ISN'T actually happening here.
beastiality is bad because animals CAN'T CONSENT. the zora are clearly not mindless animals. and if that's your problem with it i'm not sure why this is what you choose to harp on, instead of mipha and link, which is much more prominent and unambiguous
I dont care that the characters are different species, but here is the thing: Finley is a character that was intentionally designed to look like and a child, It does not matter if she is technichally 30 because she ages slower or whatever the fuck
I greatly appreciate that the revenue was donated. I actually was a patient at St. Jude as a child. My guess is that the changes were deliberate and probably a result of discussions between Nintendo's international branches.
I haven’t seen the original video, but the sheer fact you owned up to it is extremely honorable to me. I respect somebody’s ability to own up to their mistakes like that.
Ahh.. So the problem is the original dialogue by Nintendo was Always Intended to have a child-presenting female character ask you to connect them romantically with a adult-presenting male character. So glad you cleared that up. Here I was thinking it was an error of mistranslations, But it was actually deliberately designed from the original writting and game design!
Thanks for the follow-up! I’m admittedly kind of weirded out by the comments here, especially defending the relationship because “Zoras age slower.” While she may be physically many years older, it seems almost certain that she is still developing mentally and cognitively a child. Like… if you somehow transported a 13 year old human into the body of an adult, it wouldn’t make it okay for an adult to have a relationship with that person. Plus, I’m sure the Zelda team knows what this looks like. It looks like a child with a love story with an adult. This isn’t a real story-they made a decision to make the relationship look like that. And, honestly, decisions like that have historically been lazy attempts to justify love stories with characters who are obviously children in reality. “She looks 10 but she’s actually a 10,000 year old vampire!” like… nah. That’s a child. If they wanted to write this as two people who are cognitively mature and adults, I feel like the Japanese text would have (or should have!) made it more explicit. IDK. I’m sleezed out by this and I wish fans wouldn’t defend it. IDC if she’s technically 100 years old or whatever, she’s obviously a child.
In the English version she complained about the possibility she will never get her growth spurt, which explains why she didn't grow, she's likely some form of Zora dwarf given the time passed and that comment
In tears of the kingdom, they are together. which still means that this was intended to be romantic and honestly that just sucks, its not longer a one sided love...its mutual.
Yeaah... I had the same thought. TotK is like a five or six year time skip, or so many have been speculating at least, due to all of the changes around the map, characters aging, etc. They... really could have fixed this issue by just making her "hit that growth spurt" so to say... but they chose not to. It still weirded me out and made me mildly uncomfortable, but there are things that have made me far less comfortable in this game than this relationship. Still a very weird thing not to fix, however... It reminds me of the people who say Lolli's are sexually attractive just because they're sometimes like 200 years old in an anime, but they still look like they're like 10... reaaally does not sit well with a lot of people, it's a very strange thing for nintendo to hold onto, keeping Finley a "child" by appearance, even though it's quoted that she's an adult...
I honestly think Finley has a Physical development issue, and suffered from infantalisation as a result. She definitely seems to have mentally matured to at least a teenage level during the time skip, which wouldn't be the result of 5 years of natural mental growth in a race like the Zora. Maybe she was able to grow as a person by going on adventures with her mom babying her? Idk. Sason is also from another long lived species, so it's like a dragon and an elf waiting for the other to come of age for their race to me. Just kind of a weird quest overall.
Good on you mate, especially since localisation is something that generally only gets noticed if it's somehow (thought to be) done badly so I'm always glad to hear something is not the localisation's fault.
I agree, but there have been some purposefully and openly misleading translation jobs recently. It shouldn't be hurting people just doing their job as best they can though.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 Can you tell me what you mean by purposefully misleading translations or give an example from a game? As a translator myself I'm genuinely intereseted.
@@delikatessbruhe9843 I haven't seen any poorly translated games recently, I was more referring to the people at Crunchyroll who literally told people that they straight up changed the source material to be something it wasn't for personal reasons. Even then, that was more weaponized localization than a bad translation. Sorry that I wasn't more clear on this.
The amount of times I’ve seen people make a mistake, then try and lie or cover it up is astounding. Yet you’ve taken time to correct something and apologize for it. That is incredibly honorable and highly respectable, good on you NBC you have my respect!
I have to wonder if Finley in the game might have dwarfism. He speech mannerisms, especially now in TotK are very much not like the other Zora children. I had friends long ago whose mother had dwarfism. And until she hit an age where she showed more wrinkles, most people treated her like a child. Except her family and her husband. Even after multiple children. I won't mention what she told me her husband was sometimes called... If this is the case for Finley, I really hope if there is a other game in this series they actually come out and say it. It will also be sad because she wouldn't ever "grow up" in some people's eyes. Even some comments on here are saying adults that look young should not date other adults and I'm not exactly sure how I feel on that knowing how my friends mother (and her husband) was treated.
Hey dude! I'm not gonna say this wasn't necessary, but I also appreciate your acknowledgement of your error. It's not common for people to handle such things as well as you have here. 🥰
I'm still unclear... was it Finley or Sasan who said koi? Because if it was Finley, then the child crushing on the adult, while the adult keeps it platonic, is still feasible But if it's the other way... yeah, yikes.
The mistake in the original video was the implication that romantic subtext was added by the localization team who may not have had the context of what the characters looked like. It was not. Romantic subtext was included in the original text. Any criticism about the relationship should be laid at the feet of the developers instead of pinned on the localization team. That's basically the gist.
Honestly, I don't care if she says she's not a child anymore. I don't care if the original has less romantic implications. Even if it didn't have romantic implications at all, it's an adult meeting through a character that looks and acts like a child, seeing each other in person without her parent's knowledge and no consequences. This is an all ages game. It's innapropiate, and it implies a VERY dangerous message. I'm not blaming NintendoBoackCrisis of course, I think is very admirable how he rectified his mistake! But I do think that not just him, EVERYBODY should be a little bit more concerned or mad about this. This should be banned, at least in Europe or America.
Props to you for making a followup video instead of just unlisting the video and leaving it at that
He should have just ignored it. Give a clown a victory and they don't stop chasing that clout, ever. Being hypersensitive and proactive to online criticism only sounds like a good idea. It really isn't. Same is true of politics. You lose when you acknowledge the absurd claim.
@@10k-Noodles It was a matter of integrity. And as he stated, once he knew what he put out was false, it also then fell into slanderous, libelous territory. Doing this video just means he's obviously a bigger man than "some other" people...
@@10k-Noodles I can tell you've never owned up to a mistake you've made in your life.
@@BoyProdigyX bro he’s making the video to cover his ass
@@ninjafrog6966 No he didn't. All he had to do was take down the original. That would have legally "covered his ass". *This* video was legally and morally going the extra mile. It's pathetic, the number of you cynical punks who are trying to make this apology something that it isn't.
I met these two characters in Tears of the Kingdom and I'm not sure what the Japanese version says, but they blatantly call each other "best friends", which may have been NoA making the whole situation less creepy.
Seeing as NoA also removed Zelda refering to Link as "あなた", a phrase typically used by spouses to refer to their other spouse, Fish and Hylian may be a couple
It’s no less creepy. At all. Adults are not friends with kids, even when it’s fictional characters in a video game.
@@Tsumami__ “adults are not friends with kids” isn’t completely true, when I was a little kid I considered a lot of the adults around me (teachers my friend’s parents ect) “friends” and they mostly played along as not to hurt my feelings. So if it’s mostly on the kid’s part it’s not too bad, but If the adult is very adamant about it and they have no valid reason (such as being their relative and wanting to be a positive person in the kid’s life) it gets weirder.
@@Tsumami__ Adults can be friends with a child in a mentor esque way as long as the adult maintains clear boundaries and they aren't like hanging out alone, though this is a situation where the localization team are doing their best to remedy a creepy situation even if it's only really a bandaid.
@@TechBlade9000 i get what ur saying but i am curious what you think they should’ve changed it to? since あなた isn’t super easy to translate.
Good on you for publicly rectifying your mistake, NBC! I can always appreciate that.
200th like
@@MF_Francois First on yours! haha
If only the other NBC would do the same
theyre literally together in totk tho..
@@Gobbygoblin They literally call each other best friends.
Personal integrity is extremely undervalued. So good job man on that man. Thanks
His parents should be proud!👍🏽
Not having her age in TotK could be a very deliberate way to show that she is indeed stuck looking like that long term, since as the American localization implies, even for a Zora, she seems to be developing slowly. As for the translation in BotW, I absolutely see it as an attempt at making it “less weird”, in that “let me remind you I’m actually a 1000~year old dragon!” Fire Emblem Awakening kind of way.
For what it's worth, as far as I can tell she's only referred to Sasan as her "best friend" in TotK.
@@eclipsicalbluestocking1182 yeah it makes sense they would backpedal a bit with the romance
Why do we try so hard to normalize maps?
@@shanemiller2778 ask the devs
@@eclipsicalbluestocking1182 their relationship is very suggestive tho if you do their treasure quest
As someone who works with localizations sometimes - we are rarely given context, especially for side text that's not related to the main story or important dialouge. Usually you just get plain text to translate with a bit of context and that's it. I'd imagine in this case if could've looked something like "here's a dialouge for this side quest about a hylian and a zora exchanging letters, just keep it wholesome" and that's all you need to make a mistake when you don't even see the characters. Changes often have to be made later on like you mentioned.
Thank you for making a follow up, I just watched the original video for the first time a few days ago and it didn't sit right with me
That reminds me of a voice actor who wasn't given a photo or much context about the character he was doing. And he gave like. The absolute opposite voice of the character and the voice was off lol
@@mange2696 wasn't it alpharad, who did a CZcamsr voice for a monstrous Charon figure in river city girls?
the "girl and boy exchanging letters" is a very old romantic trope, so I can see were the translation team could have assumed that.
And in Manga and Anime the "person finds out the person they were corresponding with is nothing like they thought they would be" gag is also played often.
Like in Links awakening were the poet thinks he's writing to a cute princess but it is actually a goat lady who sent a false picture because she is scared to tell the truth.
So might be some cultural/humor thing that did bad in translation in the end.
@@mange2696 That's kinda what happened with Revali too. In the original japanese version, Revali was a lot less condescending and rude. The voice actor read the dialogue he was given and thought he sounded like he was being a jerk, so he made Revali sound like a jerk because that's what the translation came off as.
That's also just an odd thing with Zora physiology. She might be older than him when it comes to her actual age. But we don't know. All we know is that they live way longer than most hylians. Sidon looks and acts like early 20s, but he's like 130
No matter what her actual age is, she's a child. She has not matured to the level where this kind of relationship would be acceptable. And considering she hasn't changed between BotW and TotK, and yet Tulin has, I think it's clear that Zora mature much more slowly. For all we know, they might not reach sexual maturity until they've reached, like, 70 or something. Honestly, dude might die of old age before she becomes the Zora equivalent of a teenager.
@@jayredd8340 definitely a possibility. The wiki says mipha was 55 years old, to links 17, so age comparing get wonky. She said she wasn't a child, but it can get confusing on that front. Nintendo is a more family focused company, though Japan does have overall different views on these things compared to western countries.
Ah yes the "1000 year old loli" trope, truly a staple of Japanese media (I hate it)
@@zana-dude9998 which is why we dont use human years to describe fantasy races think dog years
@diveblock I guess Hylians would be the dog in that comparison
My guy not only owned up to his mistakes but also put all profits from his video into charity. What a legend
Focusing on helping REAL LIFE children, than moralizing fiction? That is the way to do it.
most*
I will maintain my stance that by playing UP the catfishing angle the localization team was attempting to make it very clear that they are not what the other is looking for in a romantic partner. I also believe that even with the correct interpretation of koi, the original japanese is trying to emphasize a misguided one sided infatuation from Finley, as you surmised.
As other comments have pointed out, while I don't know the japanese text, TOTK has these characters refer to each other as friends. On one hand I feel like if she really was waiting for her growth spurt its weird that they didn't show her visibly older, but on the other hand aging her up could just as easily be misconstrued as a justification.
Yeah that what I got even from his video it's a catfishing and miscommunication. She thinks he's some big hot guy and turns out even tho she's older than him she's still child Zora so they end up in what I assume is supposed to be a funny miscommunication that ends no where and they can just be good friends because they get along.
@@silverkyre I'm pretty sure that's the joke they were going for. But of course people have to jump to werid racism and slandering noa
Okay but, even if there was no infatuation at all, can we all agree that a side quest where an adult and a character that looks and act like a child meet through letters and then in person without her parents' knowledge with NO consequences in a CHILDREN'S game, is innapropiate to say the least? It really doesn't matter if Finley is older. Kids are not gonna know that. What the hell I didn't know that until I made some research and I'm 20. There are no clues on the game itself to understand she's not a child except for what, her saying she's not a child? Really? It breaks my heart coming from one of my favourite games of all time.
@@krissfernandez2244 I guarantee you barely any children did that side quest. I didn't even know it existed until the OG video. And this is why PARENTS exist, because they're supposed to PARENT children and tell them what is and is not okay. Don't expect the english translators of Breath of the Wild be 100% responsible for the actions of preteens and teenagers (because lets be real, a child under the age of like 10 wouldn't be able to play this game most likely).
@@SylverScourge What, parents are going to monitor every second of gameplay and every line of text on a (mainly) HANDHELD console? Even if they were supervising and watching it on a big screen they would have to pay immaculate attention to every line of the quest to have spotted this. It very much IS the responsibility of game-makers to make their game child friendly, IF they are going to seek out a child-friendly rating for the game. That's literally how game ratings work.
And also you clearly don't understand how children work if you think you can "guarantee" that "barely any children" found the quest. Literally millions of children have played this game, even if only 1% of them found the quest, that's 100,000 kids exposed to a very questionably presented relationship. It's presented as "totally fine" for an adult man to maintain a friendship with a prepubescent Zora. That is absolutely terrible messaging.
Love how you hold yourself accountable and talk about your mistake instead of just quietly deleting it ❤
even when I saw the original video and compared the direct translations with official localization, I mostly saw what you concluded here. An implied romantic relationship that the localization tried to add details to make it less creepy. I disagreed with the video then, but never really found your conclusion as offensive. That being said, huge respect for being willing to admit mistakes and taking steps to rectify any harm that could have come from it.
Well at least it seems like in the original the romantic stuff was one-sided
Minty?
Aging her up wouldn't have even made sense, considering it took _100 years_ for Sidon to go from looking about Finley's age to looking like a full adult Zora. Finley mentioning she's a late bloomer implies she's already in the Zora equivalent of mid to late teens, and growing slowly, which, I estimate means she's got about 20 years or so once her growth spurt begins to finish growing to full adult size.
The "late bloomer" thing was added by the localization team, not in the original Japanese text. Obviously, the Japanese devs for TOTK won't try to close out on this.
@hikarinosakura That doesn't knock out my entire point... or even any of my point.
Sidon still took a century to develop from a small child to his adult size... and there's nothing to say ANYWHERE that he didn't stay small for most of it and just get a sudden growth spurt all at once towards the end.
In fact, support for this possibility is implied by the fact that when he was younger, at some point between the Calamity and BOTW, he was still small enough to be eaten whole by an Octorok but old and mature enough to at least be _receiving weapons training and be trusted with an actual weapon._ He had a spear and knew how to use it, when he was still very little, probably about Finley's size.
So it is actually very likely that Finley might be childlike in size and stature, but in actual maturity at least of middle or even high school age, and really is awaiting a final growth spurt.
@@GuukanKitsuneThere's nothing to say that Sidon hasn't been fully grown as we see him in BotW for at least a decade or two. Most of the evidence we have indicates that Zora likely hit their prime age and start to age *really* slowly after that. To the point where even in old age they still age super slowly. King Zora in Oracle of Ages is old when you meet him 400 years in the past and looks identical 400 years later.
@765craven4 This is an entirely valid hypothesis and wholly possible but a little less supported... although it also might outright interlock with my guess because they're not actually fully mutually exclusive. Zora might stay small for a really long while, get big all at once, and then from there age really slowly all the rest of their lives.
Mind that Sidon was considered 'adult enough' to carry, wield, and train to use an actual weapon when he was about Finley's size (He had to have been in Zora standards at the least post-adolescent to teenage maturity for that, especially since Zora children OFTEN make reference to being 'old enough' to do various adult things telling us the Zora do hold maturity standards and don't just hand kids spears, and about that size to be swallowed whole by an Oktorok).
Another alternative is that Zora are like a number of kinds of sharks and fish, and do not grow larger as a result of AGE so much as as a result of AVAILABLE FOOD... meaning a Zora's apparent physical 'maturity' and size is not really a matter of their age so much as how much they are able to EAT.
Which, of course, would explain why their King is always bloody well MASSIVE and their Prince is likewise significantly taller and broader than the average Zora. Of course their royalty eats better.
I might also point out the interesting tidbit of how Muzu is not even as old as Dorephan. He was a 'young fish' and Dorephan had already been king a while when he became the advisor. Though the exact age gap is unclear, this implies he was in his physical prime and youth when Mipha was around and that it is possible he dislikes Link so much because of his clearly unrequited love for Mipha... implying that while Zora are long-lived they do age regularly... but as long as they are well fed enough to keep growing they basically don't age at all, a characteristic again shared by a number of fish and sharks. Which is an interesting idea.
Also I wouldn't look to anything from the Oracles games as... official.
@@GuukanKitsuneI don't see why the Oracle games can be considered any less official than Minish Cap. All are canon to Zelda and are on the official timeline. And the Oracle games are more recent than Ocarina of Time in release order so it's not like the age of them can bring into question their canonicity like with ALttP.
2:42 While that not being intended, I think the thumbnail really gives that vibe with how threatening it is, especially since Finley is the one who started the whole thing and talks about it romantic while Sasan seems very reluctant once they meet but the thumbnail makes him seem like an aggressor.
I think their relationship is just plain weird no matter what, but kudos for owning up to that video's mistakes
Yeah, even though they call each other best friends in totk I still don't like it.
I like it and I think it's fine. Started as a long distance relationship without either of them knowing what the other looked like. That's the point. They made a lifelong friendship out of it, and if it became something more, who cares? The fictional girl is old enough to make her own fictional choices
@@highcaliber350 no, she isn’t. She’s a child and he’s an adult. Much like Link is a child when he meets Mipha, yet she is an adult already. It’s wildly inappropriate.
@@highcaliber350 u weird
@@highcaliber350 the absolute worst take you could have on this situation
That’s some respectable integrity, and donating the ad revenue. It’s good to see you sticking to uploading what you’re passionate about instead of what gets views. For that I thank you😊
WARNING: LONG POST
There's a lot of weird toxicity in the comments from the two extremes of "She's obviously a child and this subplot is vile for existing" vs "There's literally nothing wrong here calm the heck down." I lean more toward "calm the heck down" due to 2 very simple sentiments: Real life situations and writing shorthand techniques.
I'm about to turn 28 and I still regularly get mistaken for being like 14/15. Other than weight gain, I haven't physically changed much since I was 13. I always have to have my ID ready if I'm buying alcohol, I've had people at weed dispensaries squint at my ID before because they thought it was fake, and I get age-shamed in certain situations for being too young to understand things that I may actually understand better than anybody in that conversation. Everybody over the age of 30 treats me like a child when they first meet me. Looking young has literally made my life harder to live. If a partner left me because I wasn't aging as much as them, it would break me, just as it would if they did it because I was aging faster than them. Either way, it tells me that they were with me for looks alone and didn't actually care about the person inside the skin. And I don't even have a glandular condition, either! I'm just Youthful. There are adults who never hit puberty because their brains just didn't release the puberty chemicals. That doesn't make them children. Their brains are still fully developed. They just look like children because of a chemical imbalance. And some of them are Happy about it. They deserve to live as the adults they are, with the same rights and privileges as anybody else.
On the other hand, child-coding in media IS a thing. It usually means an adult character having childlike traits to show that - even if they are an adult - they have a lot of personal growth left to do. Physical traits (small stature, baby face, low physical strength - traits that only effect the character in question) usually refer to personal issues regarding self worth and a loss or lack of control over one's own life, whereas psychological traits (impulsivity, obsession, naivety, obliviousness - traits that effect other characters) reflect social imbalances in one's life, such as a lack of a permanent peer group or poor bonds with family members.
These things can be combined to show an adult character that very much hasn't had much personal growth beyond the point they display. But that doesn't mean they are actually a child. They are still an adult and deserve to live as one, just as anybody in real life is, because art imitates life. The good, the bad, the ugly, and the downright strange. That being said, creeps can and Have used these tropes to do harm to actual children. But they will use literally any media the kid enjoys to do that, and what an individual does with a piece of media doesn't and shouldn't reflect the author's intent.
The intent here is clear to me: Finley clearly feels as though she has no real control over her life currently. She's desperately trying to blossom into adulthood, but is being held back by an overprotective mother, a sudden crisis to her home, and a lack of social outlet. Finding love is something that she CAN control, and so she clings to that in a desperate attempt to rectify her issues. The fact that she hasn't grown physically at all in totk reflects the inadequacy of this outlet. She hasn't really learned anything in the 5 years between games, she's still very much just filling the hole that is her poor social situation and lack of control over her life. I suspect that, if they make this a trilogy, the next game will have her grown just a little bit, so you can help her grow further. That's ultimately what this subplot is: helping a young woman grow into adulthood.
TLDR: Everybody needs to calm down and stop assuming the worst possible intent over every choice in fiction. Real life adults who look like kids exist and don't deserve to be gatekept from typical adulthood activities. One's interpretation of a scenario in media doesn't reflect authorial intent, as these are very common shorthand techniques to tell a story without having to TELL the story.
I know this comment is incredibly silly, but I honestly kind of found it upsetting because the original video had me reanalyze myself, and made me feel guilty about my relationship with my boyfriend. Only really because I saw parallels to how Finley was treated very similarly to how my boyfriend is.
He's small, and is regularly mistaken as a teenager (to the point he's almost constantly labelled as my younger brother, whenever we're on dates together) because he looks so young. Despite being 3 months older than me. (Both in our early 20s)
I knew Finley wasnt actually a Zora child, theyre arguably comparable to a 19/20 year old human in development, but I was too scared to really say anything because I didnt want to be labelled as a "creep" for insinuating Finley is not a child just because they're small, and tell the comment section that their relationship is okay, even if they are just best friends. Because I know body size doesn't matter, its mental development. But people don't like hearing that, especially with that video and the direction it was heading. I really didnt want to voice my criticism.
Apologies for the weirdly personal comment, I just had it on my mind since the original video off and on, and I saw this video pop up on my feed. i hope you have a wonderful day.
She’s basically a young woman with fish dwarfism
"I'm wasted on ocean crossing, we fish are natural swimmers, very dangerous over short rivers"
Thanks for this update!
I was also shocked to see Finley still looking small in TotK, but I'll admit that one of my few gripes with the game is how few NPCs acknowledge the events of BotW. It's had me mulling over Back to the Future-esque timeline hijinks 😂
Well, think of it this way: The castle oozes calamity, Sheikah Guardians go crazy, and shrines and towers show up everywhere. Hero beats them, The previous Royal family, thought to be dead show up and day is saved.
About 5 years later, Castle Floats, Gloom oozes out, Holes and chasms open up everywhere, Islands in the sky show up, and ruins rain down every ten seconds. Oh, and the princess disappears.
Are you going to worry about the previous disaster while living the new one? Someone bombs a bridge, then 5 years later someone similar but different nukes the town. Which are you more worried about?
I never thought I’d see a follow up of that particular video 😭 I either interpreted it as the localization either being sus or made a dumb mistake in misinterpreting how friendships worked. I still wonder how Zoras get growth stunts and how long it lasts. I already heard people be like “nah she lying because kids lie” when it comes to Finley saying that she isn’t a child anymore and it frustrated me. Not every adult looks like an obvious adult. I don’t even look like one either (I am 24 and I still look like how I looked back in 5th grade due to a growth spurt early)
It’s a shame Finley didn’t have much of a change of her appearance in TotK, but I understood because Zora age slower. I’m pretty sure soul mates can be non-romantic in general, but not everyone thinks that.
So message of the story: Nintendo is also weird and makes legal l0lies lmao.
I'm somewhat sure that those growth spurts last between 1 and 7 years, since in ocarina ruto ages considerably from "Child" like to "Adult" like in the time We don't see her, which Is 7 years. I'm fairly certain the procces Is faster, but I like to keep a wide gap of posiblity, since not everyone grows at the same rate irl
Using Mattison as a measure, I estimate the years between the games is 5. So TotK could potentially be 5 years later.
@TermicrafTeron 27 the thing to keep in mind was the species are very different than Ocarina. Not only are the Zora far more obviously fish-like, but they have far longer lifespans. We don't know the Zora lifespan but we know they evolved into the Windwaker version of the Rito, which is very different than the current iterations of both species.
"Nintendo is also weird and makes legal l0lies lmao."
You don't need Finley to tell you that.
_Check it!_
@@josiaharaki7310 even that may be wrong because we don't know if the zelda timeline is Cannon to these games wich considering the storry of totk probably not
There is a (SPOILER ALERT!!!) small "sidequest" in TotK that has to do with a father being worried about his young adult daughter, who was guarding Sidon. Apparently the young adult is sixty years old, newly into physical adulthood, so Finley is most certainly not far behind and just a late bloomer. Finley's "favorite person in the whole world" is her Hylian, and Finley's father confirms she's a young adult, so in all honesty I'd just let the matter rest. The pair are obviously very into each other and I don't think he is going to make a move (if he's so inclined) until her body catches up with her mind and her technical adult status.
PS, Sasan and Finley have a particular sidequest that shows that, "Where Finley goes, I go." So, nifty.
I think it’s more the fact that she LOOKS like a child. With l*li culture and such being a seemingly growing thing in both Japan and the west
Yeah, with TotK involved Finley does come across as just a late bloomer, with that amplified by the differences between Zora and Hylian development.
Also, Sasan and Finley were just adorable in TotK, going on an adventure together and the best treasure being spending time together. That helps.
@@keiyakins They're absolutely devoted to each other and they were both happy they made memories together in their side adventure. Before you finish the water temple, poor Finley's so sad and put out about Sasan not being there and being worried about him, you can find her swimming morosely in the central area where the old Shrine used to be in BotW. That's pretty hardcore devotion.
Yeah even in BotW they made sure to state that Finley was far older than Sasan. Not to mention her dialogue outside of the quest supported the fact she had feelings for Sasan. Was fairly obvious they had feelings for each other, clearly wasn't a matter of localization but naturally, Zelda fans will try and bend and twist things out of shape the best they can. The original video was so silly, trying to portray the quest a certain way and make a big issue out of nothing.
those two still going on adventures in totk, and that dude is still shady.
Some of the comment threads in here are wild, the projection is real. Social media has really done a number on people, hasn't it.
It's fascinating to watch but also quite nauseating
I think it'd be a good idea to add a link to the original video to the description, but leave it unlisted so that those of us who haven't seen it can understand a bit more of the context, as I feel like there is a little bit I am missing.
Since it'd only really be accessible via this video, it would make people go into it already knowing the part that is flawed, and to not pay attention to that information
Dude, you rock. Donating that money was a step above. Your content continues to be so wholesome👏👏
You made a previous video regarding this?! I never got to see it. I just did this quest yesterday, I had encountered the guy at the entrance of zora’s domain and I was so confused and weirded out when I reached the end of that water rising shrine quest and saw that little zora 😅
Classy way to handle this, man! Discussions and mistakes aside, this quest did catch me off guard when I played it first back in BotW, haha. I expected it to have a comical ending where the Hylian man realizes how small is "love" is, and awkwardly has to turn her down. Was a little disturbed at the outcome. It's a shame, because if it were a quest where you're just uniting a Hylian man and GROWN Zora woman, I would've actually found it real sweet. I think watching interactions between a couple like that would make for a wholesome little adventure. There could have even been a quest in ToTK where you've found that they've settled down in Tarrey Town or something.
honestly I like the theory someone made that they just didnt bother making a new model or adjusting it so that you can see she's small but still not a child. So this on top of the localization made the quest look REALLY weird. I would just like to think she's a petite young woman, she does mention that she didnt hit a growth spurt but I dont think she would have been THAT small otherwise(or at least not with those proportions)
@@Gensolink
She IS a little child. She said, "I promised my mom I wouldn't go too far". Adults don't talk like that. And don't give me the "it's a platonic friendship" or "Zora age slower" bullshit. Even if it was just a "platonic friendship", he should be friends with adults his own fucking age (when 30 or 40 years old adults seek to have "friendships" with 5 or 6 years old little kids, be very afraid, that is NOT normal and it never ends well) and a little girl who promised her mom not to go to far because she's too young to understand danger and risk should not be travelling around on our own with some strange adult. She's obviously a child and y'all fucking know it. Also, she's the same fucking age and size as the little Zora CHILDREN playing together in the throne room in TOTK while the adults try to protect the city from being too damaged by the sludge, she's clearly not an adult. As for the "Zora age slower" bullshit argument, it sounds about the same as "it's okay to marry off underage girls to adults because they're "mature" faster than the boys and they're most fertile when they're 16". Gimme a fucking break. Seems to me like people are trying to make excuses for adults having innapropriate contact with kids. Get some fucking help, you creeps.
5:42
Zora age very slowly, however Sidon still grew, which means that Finley was definitely young.
He was that small 100 years ago, so he’s probably around 130-150ish? Whereas Finley seems to be about 60ish (based off of one of the other Zara’s dialogue) so 5 years isn’t really comparable to Sidon’s 100 growth period. I definitely get what you mean, though
He grew..... 100 years later
@@pomfpomf I was referring to the 5 year growth period sidon went through in between BOTW and TOTK
I love you for confessing mistakes! And it's interesting to learn along with you why the original video was probably wrong. I had never thought about localization the way described, so i felt like i was learning slong with you. Thank you for teaching us!!
I watched the first video last week and I was wondering why you had left out the fact that Zoras age much more slowly compared to Hylians, with Sidon being the prime example because he was a child before the BotW events and barely a young adult 100 years after.
It's good to see that you corrected your own mistake.
do you need me to spell out how maturity works or age of consent? LIKE RLY see a therapist this shouldnt even cross your mind they physically mature slower there for we should not even consider that a option
@@diveblock2058 stop projecting your issues into others.
@@diveblock2058 Do you know that for sure? We don't have a specific age for Finley, nor do we know much about Zora development. Honestly, given that neither Link - who spent a lot of time in Zora's Domain as a youth, so would definitely know the rough outline - nor the other Zora around react badly, I think it's more reasonable to conclude that Finley is, in fact, considered an adult.
It's still pretty weird from the external-to-hyrule, real-world perspective to write her in a relationship when she looks so much like a human or hylian kid, but your accusation is nonsensical.
@@keiyakins yes i do indeed know that for sure and you should stop trying to justify this predatory behaviour...the entire story is about her not being old enough
and even if she was a adult its still not ok because she looks like a child so even if we disregard zora biology and take your explanation you are still a god dam predator and should seek mental help
@@keiyakins everything about your argument genuinely disgusts me
This seemed like an incredibly sincere and truly humble apology - not a lot of 'mitigating' your own mistake, just very openly admitting and clearly describing your errors.
This speaks to man of character.
The reason they didn't make Finley older is because the growth rate for Zora in the BotW and TotK rendition is that Zoras seem to age waaaay slower than Hylians. In fact, Sidon was a child in the events before the calamity, even meeting Link. When Link was a baby, Mipha was already a full-fledged zora woman. So that's probably the reason they didn't age Finley whatsover in TotK even though it takes roughly 6 or so years after BotW (Since Hudson has a young daughter which can already speak, run, and has aspirations of making the pilgrimage to Gerudo).
I appreciate your work so much NBC. And the fact that you take the time to put out videos like this, correcting mistakes and taking responsibility for it is incredibly admirable. I love your videos and you’re my favorite “dude that talks about LOZ on CZcams.” Keep up the amazing work
Ran into Finley in totk and thought her name sounded familiar, totally forgot about this whole thing. They definitely called each other best friends at one point, removing the possibility of it being romantic
???
Being best friends does not stop romance, it makes it easier.
@@lukes.3679 I think it's less about what is said and more about what *isn't* said here
@@lukes.3679 who tf refers to their girlfriend as a best friend lmao
they obviously added that to show that they're not actually dating
@elfilin 0502 You'll come across people like that from time to time. Also, I get that they were trying to draw clear lines in TotK, I was just being pedantic in my earlier comment.
I ran into both of them last night in totk. It's interesting how this upload came out so soon :V
Where?
Me too in the back of my mind I recognised them but didn’t link it to the first games quest
@@bendragneel5337 I can’t remember the name of the place but it’s where the snail shell geoglyph is, find the cave in the edge of the island furthest away from the geoglyph and there is a shrine and a mini quest thing
I bumped into them just earlier today.
@@bendragneel5337 under the lodrum Headland. North of the spring of wisdom
I definitely dont think that the devs or the localisers wanted these two to come across as a romance but that is how it comes across so i dont think you were wrong for interpreting it that way. Good on you for correcting yourself tho
They literally use 恋, the intention WAS romantic relationship…
@@kas8ia finley used hat. she thinks it is romantic type because she is kid and want a boyfriend without understanding what it actually means.
So the relationship is just as creepy as we all thought it was?
That's japan for ya 😂
Believe it or not, there’s weird people in the comments trying to justify this mess of a quest.
Hey. Your commitment to context and unbiased clarity is why we keep coming back. There’s nothing to forgive! I’m still uneasy with the quest, but - Thank you for a follow up.
Legit the part with St Jude at the end brought a tear to my eye. You’re awesome!
It's as akward as Mipha meeting Link at 4 and later falling in love with him
Zora in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom seem to age/grow slower than other races. Sidon, who was around for over one hundred years by the time the gameplay of BotW starts, is now like an older teenager/young adult. So the young Zora in this video wouldnt have grown as much as all the other races within the time span between BotW and TotK.
What are the chances that I just completed their shrine quest in TotK minutes before you posted this. My thoughts went right back to that video you had posted about them. I am still a bit creeped that she looks so much like a child in the years following BotW (Zora being slower to age), but I’m glad this video was made to clear things up!
I mean it's only been likely 6-10 years and it took sidon atleast a 100 to finally get his growth so it would make sense for her to still not have the growth.
@RedTheWeeb See subnote of "Zora being slower to age". 😉
@@RedTheWeebIt's pretty inconsistent though. Riju hasn't grown an inch, despite that timeframe (which is backed up by Mattison's being able to read and write at a basic level) putting her somewhere between eighteen and twenty-two.
@Keiya some people just don't get taller lol
why would they age her in Tears of the Kingdom if Zoras take so long to age and grow up? it would go against the lore if she looked taller in only a few short years.
also in the english translation she actually sounds a lot younger with the added text, like a rebellious teenager still acting like a kid, whereas in the original japanese version with just one simple sentence she feels a lot older. i really wish translators would stick to the original text. i know it can't always be word for word, but adding dialogue is not translator's job and they change game developer's creative choice by making certain character be certain way by taking liberties with their own uncalled for additions.
i never thought it was anything weird or wrong because of Zoras being what and how they are with aging and it's astounding that people actually took offense to that particular quest originally. humans in general have a nasty way of interpreting anything in life to their own view of the world without thinking about the context and that little side quest suffered for it.
It really helps my faith in humanity to see these kinds of things. The strongest trait a person can have in my opinion is the ability to take responsibility for mistakes, big and small, prevent repeating those mistakes by being self aware, and to be humble about it. Thanks, dude. Seriously.
If anything this would make it even worse considering there was romance in the original version.
I've been just under the impression that the slow physical aging of Zora was just part of the lore. It is a fantasy world after all.
We now live in a fantasy world where people prey on any inch others might give them for online clout. Said people then log off twitter and stare at their problems they can't solve, family and old friends who no longer like them, and log right back on to pretend as if they care again.
@@10k-Noodles that reality makes his stepping up to admit mistakes all the more a breath of fresh air.
1000 year old dragon bullshit doesnt change the fact that they intentionally made her look and act like a child
@@pineapplepenguin1759 yeah, I made that conclusion before I even understood pe**philia. I am pretty sure I didn't even understand *** at that point. I just thought like, oh that's nice she just looks younger but they love each other. Kinda shoved it in the back of my head and didn't really think about it. But looking at it in a different light, it could've been handled a LOT differently. But it's just a fantasy world, and I was never too heated about it. Especially considering it was made in Japan. Personally I won't stick up for that type of justification. But as a world builder in stories myself, "size" is much less of an issue unless your fictional world is meant to reflect on reality. There is a difference between those with dwarfism or medical conditions that make their bodies unable to look any less childlike and actual children. I took her lack of "size" as being a growth spurt thing and it didn't occur to me to be a creepy thing at age 11 or whatever age I completed that quest at. Considering it also isn't a human race and people also push for vaporeon. I really don't care lmao. Sorry about the length of this response. Have a great night.
@10,000 Noodles what are you waffling about
That’s really cool of you to do! Even with the errors, which as someone who can read Japanese, I noticed, I still really enjoyed the video. Are you able to reupload a version that excludes these mistakes? Just talking about the side quest in general, you know. Of course if you don’t I get it.
Please do TOTK explained. I loved your BOTW explained and I hope you plan on doing TOTK.🙏🏼 Love your work man!!
I don't think aging her up in Tears of the Kingdom would have worked. Other characters we see have aged up a little bit, and it's made known that the Zora age slower. So if she aged at about the same speed as Tulin and Riju it would feel like they just threw out the whole aging slower thing, and might even make it weirder that she was a childlike in BOTW
Really wasnt expecting this but yeah its creepy but i honestly think its just a japenese thing that is hard to translate wiyhout it being creepy
They translate things to however they want with a lot less significant things
Aw man I just watched this one over the weekend during my ToTK sessions. It's admirable of ya to own up to this my man.
some updates on the zonai theories would be nice now that we know way more, and the barbarian set is even more confusing.
Honestly I already respected you for being probably the most thorough Zelda channel around, but after seeing this video my respect for you like tripled. Good job man ❤
Nothing but love and respect for owning up to your mistakes. Keep up the great work!
I fully expect your tips and tricks video to include the time bomb shield drop technique you did on a bokoblin.
I respect your decisions to call out your mistakes, not only taking the first video down, but making a new one that is not monetized. It shows your character and integrity, something that is needed more on the internet. Thank you.
It's still a weird side quest I was surprised it was in the game. Especially for Nintendo
The relationship between the two characters is more obviously platonic in totk
They kept her small in TotK to show that after several years she is still the same size, showing firsthand how slowly they grow and indicating that she’s probably decades older than her friend.
Even though you took the original video down , I appreciate knowing the lore of the side quests between Finley and Sasan because without your video I wouldn't have recognized Sasan at the beginning of Zora's domain. I wouldn't have gone out of my way to talk to Finley later on and to even do her side quest had I not watched your original video. So I at least appreciate knowing their lore now so I could appreciate the fact that they were included again in TotK
Dude, you've set a great example of what every CZcamsr should be. Hell, what every PERSON should be. It's important for both content creators and the audience to understand that there can always be more to every story, and you really went above and beyond to rectify your mistake. I really respect it!
i'm still not sure how i feel about this sidequest! neither in botw or totk lol
Plot twist: Finley is vertically challenged
My french canadian translation was the friendship dialogue not the romance at first the hylian was excited if not horny to met a Zora girl but wen he actually meet her his tone is more nervous and call her best friend etc as if he was unconfortable with the result
Good since I met these two again in Totk and I was still creeped out. Glad it's just an innocent friendship cause yikes, Finlei literally looks like a toddler
They definitely should have made Finley taller in totk..
It wouldn't really fit the zora lore. Sidon took atleast 100 years for his growth when the calamity was about 6-10 years ago
I appreciate that you're taking steps to correct what you said in the video. Most people would likely have just kept the video up and pretend like it never happened, so good on you for owning up to your mistakes! ❤
Could you make a new video on the topic of the localisation of the quest, and the game in general?
Not about the perception of the quests per se, but about just how different the North American version is from the Japanese version; and maybe include other dialogue that had been localised differently; such as the first\third person views of quest descriptions, and such.
I believe discussing localisation, and possible reasons for changing content - especially if reasons are given by the localisation team(s) - is important.
I don't understand why anyone cares about this
People care because they dont like that the piece of media they enjoy has pedo shit
Realizing more and more that while the translation team have some problems, like kiddifying their dialogue by sprinkling puns all over it or hammy lines, a lot of other shortcomings do come from a difficulty of translation on an artistic level.
Yes sometimes you get it wrong badly like with Zelda talking about Ganon giving up on revival. But a lot of it is like for example shintoist lingo being so baked with meaning and loaded with theme which can’t directly translate into english in a cohesive way and so they must be simplified, or even different new things added to recover some lost meaning.
There's a reason it's called localization, not translation. Making it work for the new *culture* is important too.
Shows a lot about a person when they own up to a mistake as unintentional as this. Good job for clearing up that misconception, and even donating some profits to charity!
It's a breath of fresh air to see someone owning up to a mistake they made publicly. Much respect.
In german its somewhat clear or at least way more leaning towards describing a normal friendship between those two.
I remember reading the Rune Factory 5 localization team talking about translating the game and how they only had the dialog, no visuals to work off of at first. They had to fix certain things after inserting the English dialog and seeing things that didn't work
I think that's what they had said anyway
Loved running into Finley and Sasan in TOTK and seeing how explicit the dialogue was about their friendship being purely platonic. Immediately thought of your video and wondered what your thoughts would be on this. Never expected such a mature and responsible reaction though, I have low expectations from most content creators these days. You never cease to amaze me NBC, keep up the good work!
Knowing all that you could've just grabbed that bag and not addressed it, I'm glad you didn't! Props to you on taking the time to undo these mistakes
Genuinely hard for me to enjoy the game after learning about
this. Like I cant look at this game anymore without being reminded of it I think other people feel the same way so they're trying to create copium excuses like "oh actually shes not a kid because of the lore and zoras age slower blah blah blah" shut the fuck up, shes a kid. She was designed to look like a child and written to act like a child. They could have simply chose not to do that.
I didnt find this sidequest in botw, but according to some comments here, it STOPPED being a romance after they actually met eachother, like he didnt know she was a kid until they met and they just became friends. I didnt read all of the dialouge for the english or japanese version and I'm just going off of what people told me, so I hope thats true, that would make it a lot less gross to me. Still weird that they contrived this scenario at all though.
edit: Ive come to the conclusion that I do actually believe that they just became friends, but I still find it a bit weird Note that I am not trying to cancel the game or say you shouldnt play it or whatever, just that it personally makes me uncomfortable
In tears of the kingdom they explicitly refer to each other as"best friends."
nobody refers to their romantic partner as a "best friend" imo
so if it makes you feel better, they are in fact platonic friends
I didn't see that video, but you seeing that you made a mistake and took some sort of action to make things right shows so much strength of character you honestly don't see from people that you should nowadays.
The way they made Zoras age was a weird change. Eversince OoT it has been understood that Zoras age similar to hylians, but come BotW they age very slowly in the physical sense. Even Mipha said she was amazed at how fast Link seemed to age compared to her since she knew him since he was a young boy, and she stayed mostly the same. So if your going by actual age Mipha could have been like 60 or 80 when the Calamity happened and Link was only around 18. Heck Sidon is at least 100 something and looks like a bodybuilder in his mid 20s.
Even if Zoras age slower and she’s a lot older than him, it’s still wildly inappropriate and creepy that there’s any romantic plot between someone who looks like a child and a grown man.
I'm subscribing to you just because you honored up to your mistake even
if you could've taken the easy way out or ignored it at all, good on you :)
Thank you for the update. I still think that the translators need to be careful about how they translate media from other contruies because not checking your sources accurately can create controversy like that the side quest.
At best, its misleading and at worst, it's sanitization.
You do have to consider a few things here...
🔹We don't exactly know what age either are, but Finley says this...
_"...with that delicate penmanship, I suspect he's quite refined. Regal, even! If he's a Hylian, I do hope he's OK with being with a Zora who's _*_considerably older_*_ than him..."_
Then, Sasan says...
_"...But I CAN assure you that she writes in the sweetest, most refined way ever. She must be a very elegant young lady. Actually, as a Zora, _*_she's probably a lot older than me._*_ That doesn't bother me one bit, but...I hope she feels the same."_
Now, if a Zora doesn't come of age until, say, their 30's or whatever, and she's scheming on a 20 year old, SHE'S the creepy one in Zora culture. I mean, who's cradle is being robbed here? Sounds like the Hylian's. He just likes an older woman, which by Hylian standards, would be considered a mere preference.
🔹They call the differing tribes "races", but with their vastly different histories, evolutions and life expectancies, they must be separate *species* altogether, right? So it's beastiality, which is WAY worse than what ISN'T actually happening here.
It's not beastiality even if zora are diffrent species becouse zora still aren't animals and it's not really problematic in that regard.
beastiality is bad because animals CAN'T CONSENT. the zora are clearly not mindless animals. and if that's your problem with it i'm not sure why this is what you choose to harp on, instead of mipha and link, which is much more prominent and unambiguous
I dont care that the characters are different species, but here is the thing:
Finley is a character that was intentionally designed to look like and a child, It does not matter if she is technichally 30 because she ages slower or whatever the fuck
@@pineapplepenguin1759 Maybe like a HUMAN child, but not a Zora child.... Looks like the point went over your head...
@@BoyProdigyX it went over my head because I dont give a fuck about "erm actually zoras age slower".
I do not think it is beastiality or whatever
I greatly appreciate that the revenue was donated. I actually was a patient at St. Jude as a child.
My guess is that the changes were deliberate and probably a result of discussions between Nintendo's international branches.
I haven’t seen the original video, but the sheer fact you owned up to it is extremely honorable to me. I respect somebody’s ability to own up to their mistakes like that.
Ahh.. So the problem is the original dialogue by Nintendo was Always Intended to have a child-presenting female character ask you to connect them romantically with a adult-presenting male character.
So glad you cleared that up.
Here I was thinking it was an error of mistranslations,
But it was actually deliberately designed from the original writting and game design!
Thanks for the follow-up!
I’m admittedly kind of weirded out by the comments here, especially defending the relationship because “Zoras age slower.” While she may be physically many years older, it seems almost certain that she is still developing mentally and cognitively a child.
Like… if you somehow transported a 13 year old human into the body of an adult, it wouldn’t make it okay for an adult to have a relationship with that person.
Plus, I’m sure the Zelda team knows what this looks like. It looks like a child with a love story with an adult. This isn’t a real story-they made a decision to make the relationship look like that. And, honestly, decisions like that have historically been lazy attempts to justify love stories with characters who are obviously children in reality. “She looks 10 but she’s actually a 10,000 year old vampire!” like… nah. That’s a child.
If they wanted to write this as two people who are cognitively mature and adults, I feel like the Japanese text would have (or should have!) made it more explicit. IDK. I’m sleezed out by this and I wish fans wouldn’t defend it. IDC if she’s technically 100 years old or whatever, she’s obviously a child.
In the English version she complained about the possibility she will never get her growth spurt, which explains why she didn't grow, she's likely some form of Zora dwarf given the time passed and that comment
In tears of the kingdom, they are together. which still means that this was intended to be romantic and honestly that just sucks, its not longer a one sided love...its mutual.
Yeaah... I had the same thought. TotK is like a five or six year time skip, or so many have been speculating at least, due to all of the changes around the map, characters aging, etc. They... really could have fixed this issue by just making her "hit that growth spurt" so to say... but they chose not to.
It still weirded me out and made me mildly uncomfortable, but there are things that have made me far less comfortable in this game than this relationship. Still a very weird thing not to fix, however...
It reminds me of the people who say Lolli's are sexually attractive just because they're sometimes like 200 years old in an anime, but they still look like they're like 10... reaaally does not sit well with a lot of people, it's a very strange thing for nintendo to hold onto, keeping Finley a "child" by appearance, even though it's quoted that she's an adult...
I honestly think Finley has a Physical development issue, and suffered from infantalisation as a result. She definitely seems to have mentally matured to at least a teenage level during the time skip, which wouldn't be the result of 5 years of natural mental growth in a race like the Zora. Maybe she was able to grow as a person by going on adventures with her mom babying her? Idk. Sason is also from another long lived species, so it's like a dragon and an elf waiting for the other to come of age for their race to me. Just kind of a weird quest overall.
I will never do the True Treasure side quest 😂
Good on you mate, especially since localisation is something that generally only gets noticed if it's somehow (thought to be) done badly so I'm always glad to hear something is not the localisation's fault.
I agree, but there have been some purposefully and openly misleading translation jobs recently. It shouldn't be hurting people just doing their job as best they can though.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 Can you tell me what you mean by purposefully misleading translations or give an example from a game? As a translator myself I'm genuinely intereseted.
@@delikatessbruhe9843 I haven't seen any poorly translated games recently, I was more referring to the people at Crunchyroll who literally told people that they straight up changed the source material to be something it wasn't for personal reasons. Even then, that was more weaponized localization than a bad translation. Sorry that I wasn't more clear on this.
The amount of times I’ve seen people make a mistake, then try and lie or cover it up is astounding. Yet you’ve taken time to correct something and apologize for it. That is incredibly honorable and highly respectable, good on you NBC you have my respect!
I have to wonder if Finley in the game might have dwarfism.
He speech mannerisms, especially now in TotK are very much not like the other Zora children.
I had friends long ago whose mother had dwarfism. And until she hit an age where she showed more wrinkles, most people treated her like a child. Except her family and her husband.
Even after multiple children. I won't mention what she told me her husband was sometimes called...
If this is the case for Finley, I really hope if there is a other game in this series they actually come out and say it. It will also be sad because she wouldn't ever "grow up" in some people's eyes.
Even some comments on here are saying adults that look young should not date other adults and I'm not exactly sure how I feel on that knowing how my friends mother (and her husband) was treated.
Hey dude! I'm not gonna say this wasn't necessary, but I also appreciate your acknowledgement of your error. It's not common for people to handle such things as well as you have here. 🥰
part of me wishes the unlisted video was linked in this one for the sake of an archive
I'm still unclear... was it Finley or Sasan who said koi?
Because if it was Finley, then the child crushing on the adult, while the adult keeps it platonic, is still feasible
But if it's the other way... yeah, yikes.
I get that a mistake was made and well done for owning it. But I found the video a bit unclear and am now confused what the mistake actually was.
The mistake in the original video was the implication that romantic subtext was added by the localization team who may not have had the context of what the characters looked like. It was not. Romantic subtext was included in the original text. Any criticism about the relationship should be laid at the feet of the developers instead of pinned on the localization team. That's basically the gist.
@@BonaparteBardithion Many thanks - it makes sense now :)
Honestly, I don't care if she says she's not a child anymore. I don't care if the original has less romantic implications. Even if it didn't have romantic implications at all, it's an adult meeting through a character that looks and acts like a child, seeing each other in person without her parent's knowledge and no consequences. This is an all ages game. It's innapropiate, and it implies a VERY dangerous message. I'm not blaming NintendoBoackCrisis of course, I think is very admirable how he rectified his mistake! But I do think that not just him, EVERYBODY should be a little bit more concerned or mad about this. This should be banned, at least in Europe or America.
What a lad. I really appreciate owning up to a mistake calmly and simply working to do better. Instant sub.
It’s important to address mistakes when due, it’s a risk every theorist go through, because the line between proof and speculation sometimes is blurry