What's The Deal With Blanco And Blancoing Webbing? Eh?
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- čas přidán 18. 07. 2018
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The bloke puts the kids to bed, and sits out on his front balcony for a nice tipple and a spot of catharsis - blancoing some webbing with Khaki Green 3 (KG3) blanco. But what on earth is the deal with this wierd paint stuff that the British Army put on webbing during WW1, WW2 and until the adoption of 1958 pattern? What's the deal with ordering 1908 and 1937 pattern dyed a rather sandy beige, to then paint it green? Eh? What's the ever-loving point of that? - Sport
When I joined in 69, we used 58 pattern for field work and the belt for everyday wear. However most people used the 44 pattern, aluminium water bottle + cup so you could brew up with it. Not possible with the 58 plastic ones. Also I think my Browning 9mm holster was 44, but might be wrong. For parade, etc. it was a 37 pattern belt, blancoed in pea green and brass polished.
Best boots were Ammo but with the studs on the soles removed, so one could actually stand up! My boots were marked 1938 but were very well made and fitted very well, once my feet were broken in.
I spoke to a chap at the Thatcham Warehouse who told me that they still had over a million sets of 37 pattern in stock, as well as a similar number of ammo boots. This was prior to their big fire.
Another reason to go with Spud Gunn's observation as for why they had them Blanco the webbing is bureaucratic. Why pay the manufacturer to make different colors when the soldiers can change the color to suit the theater. Also might have gotten the webbing cheaper in one color. And maybe the Blanco manufacturer had a "friend" in the webbing procurement office.
I'm a bit late in the day, but for Chapter and Verse on this . . . . . . here goes.
Blanco came as a brick hard block of compressed powder, circular, about 3 inches in diameter and about 1 inch thick. It was wrapped in paper.The top surface was moulded slightly concave, and the mould also left an embossed colour identifier. The most common colour was 103 Khaki Green, though there were other colours. Perhaps the second most common colour was a sort of tan/dark khaki, the name and number of which I cannot recall. Most NAAFI shops would stock the correct colour for their unit, but shops in establishments which had soldiers from several regiments or corps (Schools of Instruction, Training Centres etc.) would carry the whole range of colours - or not, as the efficiency of the NAAFI manager decreed.
There was another sort of web dressing called Swift's Dressing, which was greasy/waxy and came in a tin like a large shoe polish tin, and was only available in dark green. This was used by Light Infantry and the old Rifles regiments (Rifle Brigade and Kings Royal Rifle Corps.) This Swift's did not require mixing with water like the usual Blanco, and it's waxy surface made it more resilient.
Royal Tank Regiment, with their fixation on the colour black, just boot polished their 37 Patt webbing.
Military Police and RAF Service Police wore white blancoed P37 equipment, usually a belt, anklets, and a single brace over the right shoulder supporting a pistol holster on the left belt.
Every barrack block would have its blanco room. These were concrete floored places with a concrete or wood waist high counter/worksurface running around the walls on which you could spread your kit, and there were a couple of sinks with taps.
Every soldier had his own blanco brush. This was a small wooden nail brush with stiff bristles, never a soft shaving brush. You smashed off a piece of the block with the wooden brush, and then pounded it to powder, and poured a little water on to make a paste, which you then spread over the items that you were blancoing, having dismantled whatever it was. The slight concave top surface was presumably meant to be a receptacle for water in which you could mix up the solution, but that was for pansies.
Then you hung up the items to dry before polishing any brass bits and reassembling.
There was a bit of an art, for if you made the process too wet or thin, you would end up with watermarks when the items dried. If this happened you just had to repeat the process, but you picked up on how to get the consistency just right very quickly. Properly done, the finished item dried to a nice consistent, even colour. Any webbing left in its original condition as manufactured would be inconsistently coloured and stained. Blancoing made for uniformity.
Pattern 44 web equipment was not blancoed, as it was made for use in tropical climates and was waterproofed. Pattern 58 was not blancoed either. I think this was made from some sort of polyester material rather than the cotton webbing from which Patt 37 was made. However, Patt 37 belts and anklets remained in everyday use for barrack dress and even parade dress long after the more modern webbing equipment was introduced. It was very common to wear a blancoed Patt 37 belt with Battledress, and then with No2 Dress when it was introduced in the early 1960s. In BD you'd also be wearing blancoed anklets.
You did not blanco the back of equipment, as this would have meant staining clothing.
If it rained, you ended up with dark rainspots over the blancoed items, and if it was really heavy the blanco washed off down your trouser legs, which required a lot of attention with a clothes brush after it had dried.
Very interesting! Thank you. My M37 bag has grass green blanco and there is the broad arrow and an "N" stamped into the brass. Does that mean it was used in the Navy in the 40s?
Did you ever find out what the markings meant?
I remember having to paint our canvas plimsolls shining white with some sort of blanco on sports days at school in the late 80s. Naaaarsty
Hey Chap, it has nothign to do with the video, but I think I ahve found something interesting for you. I have found a digitalisation of a German polytechnic journal which details a lot about old rifles and general tech of the time from 1823 to 1931. www.polytechnischesjournal.de/startseite/ It includes everything from firing comparisons of ammunition, to how different rifle system works and it includes technical drawings and analyses from engineers and scientists. I think you and bloke would be interested in that sort of stuff. And since I don't have another way of contacting either one of you I thaught it would be good to drop it into a comment.
Ahhh - whatever happened to plimsolls? Trainers - Pah! I pre-date you in the 70's but possibly 'Meltonian'? forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/590877/school-pumps-whitener - www.blancoandbull.com/
John Usher Perhaps, the screw caps had an integrated brush I seem to remember. As someone states in that forum, it was indeed like coating yer shoes in tippex.
And on no account could the soles of your plimsolls me made of black rubber, because that left back marks on the gym floor.
Yes! - It all comes flooding back. Plimsolls were often Dunlop brand, after all. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plimsoll_shoe Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... ;-)
So a manly make up tutorial...sort of...still watched the whole thing and enjoyed the vid as always
you probably dont care but if you guys are stoned like me atm then you can stream all the latest movies on Instaflixxer. Been binge watching with my girlfriend for the last few weeks :)
@Sergio Elliot Yea, I have been watching on Instaflixxer for since december myself =)
Why order webbing in one colour and then get the soldiers to Blanco it? Probably to occupy the troops in their down time so they didn't have time to get into arguments and have fights.
At least, that's what I was told by one of my ex girlfriends Grandfather, who was a Lt Colonel in WW2!
I think what you've said is true to a large extent. But there is a practical aspect: the colours required for different theatres.
Desert requires a different colour to temperate, etc.
Parade dress requires white. Some regiments use specific Blanco shades that represent their regiments.
Closer to the truth than you will ever know!
I would bet that Blanco is the successor to pipeclay, as used in the time of Wellington (if not before) to whiten the Tommie's accoutrements - obtained as part of the soldier's 'necessaries' by an obliging regimental shop, and the cost deducted at source from his pay-packet. There are still things like this going on (stable belts, feather hackles, other needful things available only through the Regimental shop), the principal difference being that in Wellington's time (and for many years after), each regiment was a going concern (a minor PMC, if you like) run as a business by its Colonel, who had a fixed-price contract with the Crown, which stipulated the deliverables or "Things You Must Do" for the price, and was pretty laissez-faire beyond that - hence the buying and selling of Commissions (IIRC the late, great Prof Richard Holmes was both well-versed in, and very readable, on this specific part of the business) .
So - if the Colonel was already obscenely wealthy, he might outfit his troops in high-quality well-fitting cherry red breeches for no better reason than as an egregiously conspicuous display of personal wealth.
Infantry Of The Line, generally, did not 'enjoy' such top-down largesse. Their Colonels would pay the least they possibly could for the equipment they were obliged by contract to supply to their troops (hence coats were red - 'cos red cloth was cheap, and a penny saved was a penny in the Colonel's bank account) and would actively seek to establish profitable retail opportunities (dictating the 'necessaries' and being the monopoly supplier thereof) within the fabric of day-to-day Regimental life.
Some of these things - Blancoing to a high standard would be one of them - would become very deeply ingrained in the myth of 'what makes a good soldier', and last for generations. The Blanco anachronism didn't die out until a long time after standard issue web equipment was made almost entirely of polycarbons.
I wonder if there's still a corner of the Army where Brit soldiers are still required to polish to a glass-like finish the oiled leather boots they are issued for combat.
Well, that's my un-scholarly interpretation of what I have read over time, anyway :-D
@@philipsturtivant9385 If you've got a lot of guys hanging around with not a lot to do for long periods of time, there's no sense at all in paying other people to make their lives more convenient.
If you read or listen to Spike Milligan's memoirs, everyone hated Blanco with a passion.
As do I! Nothing worse then finding a beautiful surplus piece at a junk store that’s covered in blanco. 🙄
This reminds me of my old army days. I was in the Royal Dutch Army (Koninklijke Landmacht) in 1986-1987. The standard uniform and accompanying gear was green coloured with no camouflage pattern. The webbing was basically British 1937 web equipment with some changes. The colour was green, the metal parts were black. However, for some reason ONE of the shoulder straps for the pack high on your back was buff coloured, with brass-coloured metal parts. I can't remember if it was the left or the right brace. So I had to use green blanco. It came with the kit, I didn't need to buy it.
I remember finding some green blanco in our acf drill hall in the 70's it was like a dry boot polish and was horrible, being LI our kit was boot polished black!
Blancoing 37 Pattern webbing was relatively easy, it was Brassoing the brass tips with a button-stick that was dicey. The most difficult part was getting the brass slides and the clips onto the belt without leaving a mark on the blanco.
MsG
You can dismantle the 37 belt.
hm
We had canvas pouches in the 80's early 90's that were green. Kiwi made a product webbing dust or something. Put it on wet and use a brush. Very similar.
Remember having to whiten My daps in Basic training in The Royal Signals C1992. Also we had the GodAwfull mark 1 SA80.
Very informative video man. You learn something new everyday. Keep the videos coming
Reminds me of whitening my plimsoles the night before gym class back in the 70's.
Great vid. Always love the content. Very informative
I Used it back in the 1960s when I was in the Army cadets and later on in the TA.I always used a toothbrush it came in a solid block wrapped in paper.You cleaned your brass first and then applied the blanco,quick dodge if you ran out of blanco just go over the webbing with a wet toothbrush.They had various colours depending on the Reg't you belong to.
I’m a hardcore military history fanatic and I never knew they did this, but was curious why all their webbing came in a bright sand color. I figured it had to do with not being able to acquire the proper dyes during the war.
In between Blanco and dyed ‘58 webbing was “Renovator” lot easier to apply and maintain than Blanco.
Love the video, mate!
When my dad was in the British Army in the fifties, they had a visit from some big-wig. They had to paint the coal white and the cobbles of their parade ground in the regimental colours. Bull, bull and more bull!!!
One of the reasons for painting coal/coke white was so that any thefts from the pile in the QM's yard could easily be seen.
Don't know about painting cobbles, but it was, and is, very common for kerbstones to be painted intermittently in black and white, or even in regimental colours.
@@glynjones4940 If it moves salute it, if it does not paint it!
I can hear your kids have gotten up at 8:20!
Thanks for this, I have to Blanco a '08 Small Pack that I'm restoring.
The PLCE and Osprey kit kids don't know how easy they have it...
Gotta keep the troops busy with trivia to counter the 90% boredom time. 🤣 and what does Mrs BOTR think of Blanko on her towels?? 🤔
I know the Marine Corps used Australian blanco on their web gear in the pacific.
Didn't think Aussies blanco'd anything.n
I showed some of this to my fiancée, and told her that Blanco is sort of like a woman's foundation makeup. Her reaction was like all "they put makeup on their webbing? Like lipstick and eyeliner and stuff?" She was confused as heck, until I explained it properly to her that is.
I know we had 37 pat web' in recruit companies in training depots until end of 1980 early 81. brass buckles were very badly worn and would disassemble. They were not blanco'ed but cleaned and brushed with black boot polish. Kiwi of course
We used raven oil to blacken surplus green or buff webbing, then black boot polished it.
Still blanco our cricket leg pads and gloves. Blanco meaning white of course. B&Q do a good range of matt emulsion that covers canvas very well and very cost effectively.
Awesome vid keep up the good work does blancoing help keep the Leather from weathering too besides a cover up?
I remember well doing this. I was in a WW2 re enactment group about 12yrs ago. Although i used a green solid square block product. Must have been old as it was wrapped in a plastic type film that had cracked and turned a yellowish colour. I used to grate it into a bowl, mix with hot water and paint on. Looked good when done though.
If memory serves, that's about how the original Blanco came, as a cake. Edit: You may well have been using original Blanco blocks. Or a competitor's product, maybe.
I started off with the SOF stuff but it is basically paint, And when dry has a very specific look.
for a proper look i use blanco from pegasus military.
www.pegasusmilitaria.com/product/blanco-block-no-kg3-normandyarnhem/
for cleaning webbing (blanco/sof paint/paint) i put my webbing in a pillowcase and then in the washing machine on medium. this brings it out very buff/white.
if the webbing is damaged or very old i don't recommend this however. If your going for a proper look everything should be blanco'd
blanco was also per regiment/unit commander. Italy you see a mix, and Normandy generally the same kg3 (winnipegs as an example went ashore with kg3 blanco as their commanding officer ordered it)
Even during the war blanco shades could vary. Some units never changed to the darker KG3. I read a story of an airborne medic. He was transfered for a short period to some barracks and then to his final unit. In these barracks his sergeant asked him to change his blanco to the shade they were using. He succesfully objected saying after a short period he would be transfered again and probably had to blanco all of his equiptment again. When he was transfered to his final unit he was happy to discover they used the same shade. I have several types of webbing left/forgotten/lost by the British in The Netherlands and with varying shades of blanco.
Interesting.I never knew about this quality pastime of British soldiers :)
I wonder, if Blanco is clay-based it's got to be waterproof, or at least water resistant, right? So webbing heavily impregnated with Blanco won't get sodden in the rain. The best way to guarantee your soldiers impregnate their webbing fully is to have it start off totally the wrong colour.
Clay plus water equals mud.
This makes me want to clean up the pouches I got from the local surplus and see what's under the layers of crap on them. They're RAF blue/gray but we'll have to see what's beneath.
The inside should have the original color.
Neat!
Blanco was still used in the Australian Army until well into the '60s. 37 Pattern webbing was issued in recruit training battalions and replaced by a mix of US 56 Pattern and the 37 Pattern large pack and basic pouches. In the RTB I went to the trouble of applying Blanco and making my webbing immaculate only to be told by an instructor that I would stick out like dogs' balls in the scrub, whereupon he picked up a big lump of dirt and rubbed it all over my gear. Needless to say, I am still deeply traumatised to this day!
I need to get some so I can match a blue holster with a green belt.
Bloke. Bovington. Beige. Just spit ballin'.
Are you voluntarily drinking Pastis? Bleuch... The DPM blanco was a marvel of science.......
Bloke in the CZcams WWII collaboration?
Interesting and painful at the same time 🤓
Similar to whitening RAF plimsoles in the 80s,
Ahhh - possibly 'BotR' and 'BritishMuzzleLoaders' dressing up together? Suspect 'The Chap' needs to be the Officer in Charge - he has the gravitas - and the pistol....
The Bloke stood in the middle of a field filming, when Bismarck suddenly comes over the horizon in a Stuka.
With Lindybeige defending with a sword and halberd, Ian rolls out the entire arsenal of Forgotten Weapons and The Chieftain shleters everybody under his hat! The possibilities are endless. ROFL!!!
Royal tank regiment stain theirs black and then polish it whith black boot polish. All your webbing.
Can this be done from green to coyote brown/tan
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever experimented with blanco on modern nylon gear? Would it be as effective? I suspect not, but I'm curious as I have some modern surplus magazine pouches in a real motley collection of colors and was wondering if there was a way to recolor them uniformly.
Matte spray paint would probably be the way forward there.
8:26 that’s what she said 😂😂😂
Does the un named CZcamsr resemble Lord Kitchener?
Does it come off when wet
How long does it last?
cover up the awful scribbling of names on the webbing, is what I recall.
I see you like the Hazal yogurt from Migros, good choice
Does it help to waterproof at all? I'm guessing not.
This stuff, no. Post-war they approved a waxy webbing cleaner that did indeed have at least some waterproofing qualitites.
Thanks for the reply. I have a WW2 37 pattern backpack i was thinking of waxing now that most of the original Blanco has come off, but i may Blanco it again. I can't decide, lol.
When I was in the Territorial Army in the early 60's we were issued with archaic Pattern '37 webbing which we immediately ditched and bought Pattern '58. But had to wear the 37 on parade. Always looking for shortcuts we mixed our Blanco with a little Polycell wallpaper paste. It made the Blanco application last a lot longer, it didn't rub off, it filled the webbing weave and was shower proof. Passed a few RSM inspections without being found out.
Is that Pernod you are drinking?
It's a very British thing to ...... Paint the grass because it's the wrong green.....
Did the blanco do anything to make the webbing more resistant to moisture or rot? Was it purely for aesthetic purposes?
No, it doesn't. It's for aesthetic / camoflage purposes. The later waxy stuff had some waterproofing qualities, but the normal stuff not.
@@BlokeontheRange thanks for the reply. Given that blanco was aesthetic rather than functional do you know how it was used by other commonwealth and foreign forces using British equipment? I'm specifically attempting to understand if the Polish Airborne would have had blanco on their webbing at Markget Garden, but was also wondering about the Princess Irene Brigade and late war Canadian infantry.
IIRC Australians didn't blanco and I don't know about the rest - those trained by the Brits likely would have. Canadians I don't know. If you watch A Bridge Too Far there's a mix of dark KG3, some unblancoed and even some bits of pea green in there, and you can indeed see the difference it makes.
Mate, would Blanco work on a German canvas alpine backpack?
Yes, but it wouldn't be period-correct.
Walt on the Range eh?
Did the U.S. use anything like that or was the U.S. webbing more uniform in color?
chris ware U.S. webbing was used as issued, with a shift from olive drab no.3 to olive drab no.7 starting at the end of 1942 but not really going steam until the middle of 43, it is not uncommon to see U.S. hear made from a mixture of the two colors with the darker no.7 shade coming to predominate from 44 onwards.
Why didn't they just use leather. Why webbing?
At 12.1
is that a Solothurner Biertage cup on the table?
Joel Dreyer well spotted, fine sir! And a fine product of the Val de Travers to fill it!
very nice! had i known there was a chance of meeting you there I would've gone too probably
Joel Dreyer We do an annual pilgrimage there, usually on the Friday evening.
well then i'll have to be there next year
Serious question here. If this was standard practice in the British Army during WWII, why in that film, "The Hill," did the character Stevens get in trouble after Sean Connery's character used whitewash to hide the dirt on Stevens' kit for parade?
Blon like Blond. Co. Blanco. Spanish for white.
>Brass is superior
You say that, but as someone who has a ton of old military leather kit, brass is not superior. Oh yeah, it doesn't rust, but over time they get that verdigris shit and pops or breaks those brass rivets.
Sorry, I don't particularly like any colour for webbing other my units BLACK.
I wonder if the company ever regretted naming the product "Blanco".
Brian Hall Why?
Not being familiar with the product, when I hear "Blanco", I think "white". Contemplating "do I want khaki white or brown white or green white" almost makes me giggle.
Brian Hall I guess like many products once they become a household name they loose any specific meaning.
Brian Hall: i had the same thought. (One of the very few spanish words i know is blanco)
No, it's all about make work for conscripts.
That's where the term Blanco and Bullshit comes from.
Should you blanco American webbing?
My theory is that having your soldiers painting themselves comes from the officers playing to much with toy soldiers as kids.
There's a theory that it all started out with NCO's and soldiers themselves shortly after the introduction of 1908 pattern webbing.. What the truth is is likely lost to the mists of time.
@@BlokeontheRange But didn't you say the practise is documented already before the boer war(s)? It seems to me that would scupper that theory.
Whitening the buff leather was done prior. Once khaki-dyed webbing was introduced in 1908, colouring wasn't supposed to be a thing. Apparently units then started doing it anyway to look smarter due to variations in colour between webbing components.
@@BlokeontheRange I know that if I was put in charge of actual troops instead of models I would probably struggle against my urge to imrove on their shadows and highlighting.
I think the word you were looking for was Bullshit
get raw milk
Finnish brutality?
I always knew you were a blanc-er
In my day (45 years back), Blanco was awful. We had specific colors for specific items. Horrible memories of getting shouted at and sent off parade to "Blanco yer belt".
such a stupid idea, a waste of time for poor results, I have seen many very akward pieces of equipment in many places, why did they wanted to complicate everything when it was much easier to make it simpler...