Undertale's Music Is In Danger
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- čas přidán 25. 12. 2023
- Anyone that goes out of their way to harass or be toxic to the people mentioned in this video are not respected and not welcome in this community. The only way that Undertale's Music won't suffer from Copyright problems in the future is by leaving constructive criticism and not have hundreds of people leaving negative comments towards Materia Music or the CEO.
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Undertale's Music is in danger due to Copyright Hell. With Yellow officially released a lot of problems have arrived and I wanted to make a video about it to bring attention to it and warn other content creators about the problem.
Toby Fox if you're watching this the only way to solve this is by making another public statement. All of us are kindly asking for you to do this. Thank you for understanding.
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Undertale is a game made by Toby Fox. Undertale Yellow is a fangame that took 7 years to develop. I did not use Undertale or Deltarune's OST or Soundtrack in this video :)
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Hi! My name is Cibles and I love the Undertale and Deltarune Franchise. From fangames such as Don't Forget or Deltatraveler to theories such as theories regarding Gaster Sans Spamton and more. Subscribe and I promise you won't regret it! I try my best to get out content weekly and we truly have a heartwarming community here!!
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Update as of 01/06/2024: Undertale Yellow has released a message on Toby Fox's behalf. In which Toby states that he will be donating $20k to the charity of Undertale Yellow's choosing. Additionally he says that Sebastian was right in regards to the fact that Yellow didn't get permission from him to publish the music until recently. However, Sebastian had handled this situation extremely terribly and Toby criticized him in private for doing so. With him stating that they should be supporting fan's love and passion towards any fanwork.
Toby has also said that they will be re-working the guidelines for usage on Undertale's audio to make them more clear as well as provide better information on how to license music properly.
Update as of 01/02/2024: Undertale Yellow has released a public statement, stating that their music will now have their disputes accepted similarly to Undertale's music. While this is a big win, it is still unclear if disputes will be rejected for other fangames outside of Yellow. Additionally, it is unclear if Undertale music will get disputes rejected for videos that don't have Undertale gameplay present. Toby Fox, we still wish for you to release a public statement on all of this to give proper clarification.
Original Comment:
Anyone that goes out of their way to harass or leave negative comments towards anyone mentioned in this video isn't apart of my community. We're here to spread love, kindness, and acceptance. Not the other way around. The only way we can get these rules to change is via constructive criticism, not harassing people. That being said, don't go flooding the CEO's Twitter with complaints either. If you want to say anything, make sure it's constructive.
Toby Fox, if you're watching this, releasing a public statement like you did before is the best way to get out of this mess. It would mean a lot if you did so.
Anyway here is my legally obligated Cibles Plushies link /j - ciblesgd.junipercreates.com
No negative comments, got it
Hi Cibles remember me?
cum
hello cibles!!!
Yooo Cibles wsp it’s me Kaiba. Just tuning in this video so I can get caught up with the Undertale community, and oh boi now I know it’s hell rn. I might become a member or donate some of my Christmas money. Let’s hope that the copyright hell would end soon.
Love that Toby Fox has an evil doppelganger named Sebastian Wolf, it's like Starfox.
HAHA HELP.
This is probably the most funny thing i read today.
Not so fast, Toby Fox!
Don’t get too cocky, Toby Fox!
We meet again, Toby! This time I'll take ypu down for REAL NOW!
Looks like we win today, Toby Fox!
The fact Toby can't even do what he wants with his own music is outrageous.
This is outrageous, it's unfair!!
@miguel_braulio_2250 How can you be on the council, and not be a master!?
@@nobody7204 take a seat young starwalker
Exactly
what does this mean for deltarune?
Please remember companies will always avoid answering a question that forces them to admit they're wrong
That or at least take some classes on lying from Asmongold.
Context rule set:
A. Claim you only make objective opinions on things you understand or have investigated.
B. Ignore the first rule when it comes to company bias. Follow it when not in company bias.
C. If you receive massive pushback feign ignorance, despite that fact you knew. Disclose your public investigation despite already knowing the truth.
D. Follow bias, By claiming you disagree with how they handled the situation but not the situation they were put in. ( Even though he, himself would has done far worse things in smaller circumstances).
E. Sweep things under the rug / Don't address or talk about anything until the last minute when people no longer care or enough time has pass since your last statement on the same topic that way people forget what you said. ( It would be a massive hassle to dig up. Do verbal in video never in writing. Writing is much easier to find and look up. it's easier to hide video of your statements with time.)
F's and L's : Begin to wonder why you get so much hate and then show visible signs of panic when you realize hundreds of thousands of people are actively working against you in real time. While also painting your attackers as immature.
Z: Pray to god no-one finds out you publicly supported that vaccine while being a resident of Texas.
Which is stupid, because not admitting your mistakes is a great weakness...
So we can't ask questions because we might be right? WTF? Can you imagine if all companies worked that way, what fun it would be? *Example* Hey Microsoft I lost taskbar what happened? **Sound of chirping crickets** Will the next patch fix it? **Sound of chirping crickets** Wow a company worse than both MS & Apple at being evasive & scummy? They must be so proud? Then again from their point of view being lumped in with those guys, would be the greatest form of flattery they could ever receive. It mean they are slumming it with the masters of scumbagery.
@@MrJugNut the example you're mentioning is feedback in the form of a rhetorical question, not an acutal question.
Thank fuck we've given companies so much control of our world and system
Reminder to Everyone: If Toby decides to take legal action, that means most options he has involve keeping quiet until he and his legal reps can come up with a statement, assuming they don't stay quiet until a legal settlement with Wolf's company is made. In other words: Don't be surprised if it takes Fox some time to resolve the issue or discuss it.
Not putting it on Toby to do so, but something that's done frequently is to state in the vaguest terms that you're aware there is an issue people are having
@emdivine people also often forget that vague laws and rules allow for more exceptions and generous enforcement whereas firmly defined strict rules only have the options to 1. Enforce the rule as written, 2. Let everyone break said rule which completely undermines its existence in the first place or 3. Completely overhaul everything for every small issue lel
I think you can see why people prefer to make vague guidelines now lel
Absolutely false. He can say whatever he wants, legal proceedings or not.
@@Forakus it's not about being legally allowed to say or not, but any statement he publishes or words he says can bite him in the ass during a lawsuit if he's not careful enough, that's why it's overall better to stay silent until a lawsuit
@@herrforehead3745 He spoke out anyway, though he did ask the UTY team to relay the message for him, and he did condemn Sebastian Wolff's actions as immature and even donated money to the charity of UTY Team's choice.
Sebastian Wolf being the villain of a story related to a Toby Fox game is the most evil-twin-ass thing to ever be witnessed irl.
"I hope I don't have to fight my shadow self today :)"
@@bigtimebabey SmallMomentAdult: hello
The specificmage5852 lore is insane.
@@Boooiiiiii "no fukcign way"
Underfell Toby Fox
This situation has been nothing short of absolutely ridiculous. I've never seen a company CEO act so unprofessionally before. I hope Toby Fox steps in and does something, because this has been so stressful for the entire fanbase, especially creators.
Shayy, the peacemaker, has arrived.
Only 16 likes? I'll fix that
where is everyone
hasn't been stressful for me since I dislike undertale yellow B)
Edit: You know what? Screw it. I'm not that guy. No more rage baiting. No more hating whatever is new and popular. I'm done. I'm going home...
@@LemonbreadSCI usually hate when people say this, but...
Nobody asked
Sad part is this isn't the first time something weird like this has happened. Dragonforce had an issue for a while where their record label started copyright striking people doing covers of their songs despite the band being ok with and encouraging covers. Even their guitarist started getting copyright issues for playing his own songs on social media.
Danny brown had to create his own music for his twitch streams because his own stuff would be claimed if he streamed on twitch. It’s genuinely a joke.
The system isn't made for humans to have rights to things, only companies. Corporations aren't just treated as people, they're treated as being people more than actual human beings.
That isn't even something weird. Unfortunately all of that is how copyright works in the US. Record companies usually hold almost all the power when it comes to copyright. The entire system needs an overhaul.
@@keltzar1 I'm going to try to remember that line. That might be useful in an academic essay I've been vaguely interested in writing about the status quo of "corporate personhood"
I feel like all new artists should start creating their own music label instead of joining the already existing multi-sector copyright record label companies
This is why people are standing against copyright laws for YEARS already
And the kicker, the original use of copyright, was so companies couldn't use people's own works in there big stuff....
Copyright is now a 180 of what it was ment for
@@Dkrule1 fuck Disney executives and fuck Metallica
Copyright has been the most unfair thing for everyone and it's always being abused by retards
The original purpose was the stop people from stealing work and claiming as their own
now it turned into attacking creators and profiting off of them over very small segments of music being played, footage from some movie or TV show or even videogame..
It's just really frustrating that copyright is never done in the way it is intended and it just becomes a huge pain in the ass for everyone, even some of my friends have to deal with it.
i see!
This has nothing to do with copyright laws though. This is entirely the fault of a publishing company's actions and youtube's copyright system. Neither of which are required to act like they do according to the law.
You know what's funny?
That version of "Enemy Approaching" that I arranged for UTY and posted on my channel never got claimed. At all.
When Materia got the distribution rights, they insta-claimed all of my UT remixes from 2015, but the songs I arranged for UTY were never claimed.
Wow. Just wow.
I heard there's 35 out of 135 songs that you can stream, yes?
Dang
CZcams is a sh*tshow. Nothing makes sense. No one knows what they're supposed to be doing.
@@CiblesGD (What's also funny is that most of Toby's songs in of themselves are remixes of pre-existing songs)
I hope that Toby does something about this. Surely he won't stand for this.
Yes, Toby will stick up for us!!!
Tbh Toby Fox is the last guy on earth who i'd ever imagine suddenly not doing smth about this
He doesn't seem like the guy to do smth like that
Does anyone how to contact Toby Fox so we can tell him about his?
@@talkingfez1265 you think he doesn't already know?
Yeah, I feel that way too! He's a GOAT!!@@VERGIL...-
This is why I absolutely loathe majority of music publishers. As a musician, I would be very pissed if what Toby Fox is going through also happens to me if one in a million chance I become a successful composer.
Same path as you.
This is why I as a musician will never sign to a label
@@nitro5247 make your own. Thats what i did. Went in to make my own label and make sure musicians could actually make and own their music without it being taken by greedy corps.
Friendly reminder to anyone that it IS POSSIBLE TO SELF-PUBLISH YOUR MUSIC! It is not as hard as it sounds.
andreas ronnberg self published and he did fine
Really unfortunate to see Toby taken advantage of here, can only hope everything gets resolved. Super frustrated by all this
Ok furry
@@JuggleMyBall Who cares dude
@@JuggleMyBallYour reply contributes nothing to this CZcams comment so I suggest deleting it for the sake of everyone here including yourself.
@@JuggleMyBall bro who cares?
@@JuggleMyBall And that is a bad thing, because...?
A reminder that Wolff got in hot water a couple years ago for not paying artists under his label so he really genuinely doesn't give a shit about anything he's talking about.
I hope he gets sued for all he's worth
Honestly could tell right away that he's just in it for the profits. Undertale _does_ have a massively popular soundtrack after all, and it seems like Wolff doesn't like the fact that Toby doesn't care what people do with the music. I hope Toby puts him in his place, and soon.
So let me get this straight. The company who handles the copyright material is basically making the rules without Toby Fox’s consent. Basically.
Its the standard procedure to steal money because that for the standard yields more money than assuming good faith.
That's how publishing companies work. Companies never care about morales, just money. That's the only thing they care about. They don't need consent and have the liberties to do whatever they want, and it's perfectly legal, so sadly they are completely free to do that
I'm getting sick of large companies trying to pretend transformative works don't fall under fair use. If frivolous, bad faith copyright claims resulted in the disputed content becoming public domain I bet they'd start behaving real quick.
"Fair Use" is a much much more vaguely defined concept in copyright law than people think. A work being transformative is just one of many factors that affect whether it falls under fair use and usually is not enough on it's own for a court to rule in it's favor. Parody and criticism are both much more highly protected and usually are enough to count on their own. Even with that most big parody creators such as Weird Al always get explicit permission before creating a parody just to be on the safe side.
The majority of things people think of as transformative would on their own lose out in court if a copyright dispute made it that far.
remixes or covers do not fall under fair use, but that doesn't matter because Toby Fox himself has given permission for these things to exist.
@@ctom4242 A lawsuit a few years back determined that all sound was copyrightable. The reason? Both sides had expensive lawyers, so who needs logic? This resulted in the case being struck down by a higher court because of f_king course it was. All yer defending is money.
The fact they can steal the money from a video whose content is only like 4% at best related to someone's music has been absurd to begin with. The most they should be able to get should be that about 4%. Like, the duration of the music, divided by duration of the video, divided by number of transformations the music had, divided by 2 (visual and audio, audio isn't everything) then that should be how much they get to take. But they'd rather claim a whole video, by default.
The issue is the transformative-ness it's only one is 4 criteria for determining Fair Use:
1 - nature of the user (commercial/ non-commercial & educational, news, criticism, review, etc);
2 - amount used;
3 - transformative-ness;
4 - market usurpation (basically, does your use eliminate the need to go to the original to experience a work?) A review pulling a few quotes to illustrate a point pretty clearly DOESN'T render it such that you don't need to go to the original, unless maybe you're quoting the twist that's the entire point of a work...
All four factors of Fair Use must be weighed together. That's why H3H3 prevailed in their Fair Use claim; they used all of the original work & basically eliminated the need to go to the original work, but their use was so clearly transformative and clearly critique that those factors outweighed the other 2.
The bar for being adjudicated Fair Use should probably be lower, but the weighing it out across multiple factors DOES make sense.
Hey, I heard this story on twitter! Sebastian wolf completely mishandled the entire situation and made a fool of himself, I'm glad Cibles has made this known to the general public! As a small content creator who has a series dedicated to undertale with the use of those tracks, this has been on my mind a lot and people like you who speak up make it better for small creators like Me. you're doing good work for the community.
the meme of sebastian wolf being toby fox's evil twin is absolutely hilarious
@@realawesomeos He should keep his promise about that 10K he offered
Its like some kind of furry dreamworks movie @realawesomeos
I mean,it's kind of in their names, Sebastian WOLF
Toby FOX
@@VERGIL...- Star Fox moment
The fact that they ghosted you after you chewed them out makes me believe that it's some kind of copy and paste situation that professional companies always use.
Unprofessional I'd say, if you know what I mean
Ahh yes, ctrl+v, the laziest answer
@@JustaCommentator-no8ow cant forget ctrl+c and ctrl+d!
@@pancake445you mean ctrl-a right?
@@memesong21 those are the controls on chromebook
What's hilarious is that their temper tantrum about this has caused even more people to learn about Untertale Yellow than would have ever heard of it. Streisand effect in full swing here.
Yeah now im excited
Imagine if Toby Fox just ends his contract with Materia over this and makes all Undertale/Deltarune content royalty free/common domain like Touhou. That would be crazy awesome.
as a touhou and undertale enjoyer, i agree.
I could also, so that ID content on my 2 versions of my Megalovania salsa cover will be deleted. But anyway I want to call Toby Fox for a music collab I'm thinking to do...@@Sussy_Mewo
it would also be the objectively correct call
It would make sense as if memory serves, Toby Fox stated that Touhou is one the reasons he decided to make games in the first place
I'm not sure if he can do that - depending on the contract terms, Materia Music may be the one with the rights now, not him
Unfortunately I can confirm that Undertale covers still get claimed and deemed "ineligible" for monetization 😔
Yellow looks amazing though I can't wait to play it!
wow. is it a recent issue for your undertale covers? or has it continued as long as you've put out undertale content? I was under the impression that covers were generally allowed under copyright laws, with appropriate credit
oh my gosh- you as well?? they're going after all my favorite UT music creators, man
that makes me really damn sad because i really love your covers, i hope it gets fixed
And those people should be disputing those claims.
Fingers crossed your content goes under the radar. I really wanna hear your takes on Yellow stuff ;_;
I want toby to start his own publishing company so that this doesn't happen edit: thx for the likes :D
I need that
thats gonna be TERRIBLY hard
yes
That would solve every problem
"Annoying Dog Records"
THEY LITERALLY CHANGED THEIR FAQ BECAUSE OF YOU that's so funny. absolutely hilarious, ridiculous and unprofessional
honestly this is scary because with materia acting the way they are there's a complete nonzero chance that they're just waiting for an opportunity to mass claim videos or holding their ability to do this over Toby so they can keep copyrights.
I think i get it, Wolffes issue is not that they didnt get a license, its that they didnt get a license with them, therefore hes holding revenue hostage of videos of undertale yellow to get that cash anyway and to punish the authors for getting a license with another rival company. Essentially trying to create a "Protection money" scam.
Also imma be real with you, "dont mass complain on the company's twitter" is exactly how awful companies get away with shit like this every day. Unity's CEO didnt step down because a few people left constructive criticism on their propietary website. Speak out, warn others about them if you can (Through reviews or otherwise), and cease all business with them if possible at all. Hes a human, respect him, but do not respect his company, the company is not your friend, nor a human.
Exactly this
I think saying not to harass a company isn't for politeness, it's to mitigate bad actors with good intentions dragging the cause through the mud - hence constructive criticism only. Many such cases where a person or company will weaponize the victim card if they receive enough of what can be framed as harassment, which will weaken the case against them, at least in the court of public opinion. Either way, it's less likely to help Toby if he is already doing anything to rectify the situation, unless you hear from the man himself that he needs people to prove a point.
If the human is a piece of crap no one owes him any respect either. The difference between harrassment (which in this case would really only be doxxing and Actual threats) and things that don't fall into the line of constructive criticism is pretty huge.
Pretty sure the company doesn't even want this unnecessary drama, but they can't refute the big boss upstairs so here we are. Everyone deserves respect, but everyone also deserves to lose it if their actions do not warrant any respect to be given to them.
"Getting a license from another rival company" is the illegal part.
Materia owns the rights to Undertale music not DistroKid. DistroKid cannot legally sell a license to content they don't own.
Even if DistroKid did buy a license from Materia, I guarantee you they bought a cheap license for single use and not eligible for sublicense (which is use by a commercial third party like Undertake Yellow).
I know of a creator who recently lost a CZcams dispute because his "DistroKid license" for an 80s soul song was invalid and the actual copyright owners held legal claim. He bought a license from the actual copyright holders to solve the dispute.
In short, DistroKid is selling invalid "licenses" and ripping creators off. I'm not defending music copyright laws, I'm just clarifying what's happening legally speaking.
This whole situation is very bizarre and it scares me just how easily they are able to manipulate the rules in their twisted favor. I hope Toby makes a statement again, and that this situation can be rectified because it's honestly terrifying to think that all these unrelated videos could get striked just because they use UT/DR music in them.
Or even worst of all
Leitmotifs
It could even happen if your music has the leitmotif of an UT/DT soundtrack in it,i heard it happen to a few people
@@VERGIL...- they can do that???
Their basically Flowey as a company bruh, even Flowey would be freaking terrified of this madness, you know what they say ¨In this world... it´s copyright or be copyrighted!¨.
@@desaug Not legally. Not like those who abuse copyright law care about whether something is legal or not. All they care about is whether they make money as a result.
Considering that there are A LOT of videos containing Undertale/Deltarune music, so many videos could get striked, or worse, taken down because of this ridiculous situation. I love the soundtracks too much for them to be removed.
It's honestly so annoying how this company is going against the wishes of someone who MADE this music. Toby Fox is so based and allows people to use his music in the videos and fan projects. He even told Alpharad that he could recreate Dating start and use it in his sponsorship segments when he asked Toby if it's possible to buy this song for these segments. I hope it will be resolved, because it's just so unfair.
It really is unfair :(
I mean, who do these guys think they are to openly go against the actual creator of the soundtrack?? And also, calling a passion project a cashgrab? This is so ridiculously hypocritical, I don’t understand why the company is doing this, there really doesn’t seem to be any reason at all!
Thats the copyright system for yall
@@annakwashere Like it is a free game that has been a work in progress of 7 years! That's the opposite of a cash grab if I've ever seen one!
He talked to Alpharad?!?!
@@DrawciaGleam02 Alpha uses dating start in his sponsor segments
The sponsors started to catch on that he _might not actually own the rights to the song_
So he went and asked Toby "hey can I buy some rights to the song please so that I'm out of the legal grey area"
Toby then said "there's nothing stopping you from just recreating it entirely from scratch and then saying that you made it yourself" which is loophole for saying "you can just say you own it lmao"
*note that I'm kinda paraphrasing and I'm not any kinda legal expert*
3:53 tip: if you're trying to combine two existing videos, don't import, combine and re-render through editing software - use an encoder like Shutter Encoder or Handbrake to combine them - its so so much faster. (obviously different issue if you have to go in and edit bits like afterwards)
"There is no do-nothing option"
I'm not exactly sure how it works, but Sabaton, a History Power metal band said that they don't mind and actually encourage use of their music, including stuff like reaction videos. And I imagine Reaction channels wouldn't listen to their songs if every one got copyright claimed and demonitized by Nuclear Blast Records. So unless every single use of their song is disputed and allowed, there *has* to be a "do nothing" option somewhere.
I am also unsure, but I feel it's as simple as just not setting up whatever autoclaims the music in the first place.
As a programmer in training, I am almost sure that this "do nothing" option wouldnt take much time to make, but ofc it doenst make money
It is ironic that Toby’s early projects were rom hacks of Earthbound huh. Toby knows what it’s like to work on fan game passion projects and now those are being made by others out of his games universe and music. I’m sure he does not condone any of this action taken on his behalf
plus much of the music/motifs from the game are directly lifted from other games/osts. kirby's block ball stage 7 being one big example. how they gonna claim against repurposing already repurposed music? it's a bad look and incongruent with the thing and its identity itself. the whole game was already a mishmash -- it'd be like the undertale publisher going after game devs for making earthbound/mother-like games. bass-ackwards.
It would be an amusing bit of poetic justice if Square Enix sued Materia Music Publishing for naming itself after their creative property. I assume "materia" specifically is not actually a copyrighted term, but it sounds like the bastards deserve a taste of their own medicine.
@@0Fyrebrand0 I might be misremembering, but I believe "Materia" is straight up just the Latin word for "Material."
To my knowledge, Materia has no legal right to copyright UTY songs with no clear references/motifs from Undertale tracks. Which is something they have done, and thats illegal
Someone actually pointed this out to Sebastian Wolf during the middle of an argument they had on Twitter, and then he went silent lmao
And no, using FL Studio with some of the same Instruments Toby used does not count as it being based on Undertale. Sebastian Wolf is just making up whatever he can think of
Not even using another DAW like Reaper or Ableton with the same instruments/samples used. @@shaunduzstuffs
@@shaunduzstuffs Well then we have him face with Nintendo for having Nintendo samples used.
@@thealientree3821I like the sound of that.
This sounds devious
Note to self - if ever ever make music, release a game, novel or whatever - self-publish. Never ever relinquish any part of your own copyright or handling of it.
Also "Want to build a career on other people's rights?" - said the Materia music CEO who basically makes money from holding someone else's copyright pretty much hostage at this point.
The irony is damn amazing.
This is why you never do work with corporations no matter how trustworthy they seem on the surface.
Publicly traded companies have it writ they have to be as greedy as physically possible in the law practically, to appease investors otherwise its considered sabotaging the investment or something. So publicly traded companies are the issue. Any organization prefers its own existence over its own death however.
the lesson learned: don't hand over your copyright to a random corporation
It ain't that simple, kiddo
@@oofyalDAMMIT I would say make sure the company can't manage the copyright at all and make it up to you to handle the disputes so you have the option of what to do instead of trying to work it out with a random-ass company that only wants money.
@@DJEevee257 well that's a better explanation.
@@oofyalDAMMIT yeah it is. managing your intellectual property yourself is a much better bet every single time, especially now that digital releases are a thing.
@@oofyalDAMMIT if the intention of it is "let the fans use it" rather than restriction, then yes, yes it is. Selling the copywrite to your music to a company is only a good thing if you want to prevent people from using it.
the most saddening thing is that, at least right now, if toby fox decides to not work with materia collective anymore is going to delay deltarune's development, the guy is already so busy and having another problem is really annoying and stressful
hope this gets resolved and that he won't be in the need to start his own company or something
how is it going delay? they dont do anything in the game development, at best toby might only get busy trying fix this copyright issue but its most likely just few days of not working in the game
Aren't the next chapters almost complete in development? Sure, it takes away from development time, but I don't think it would be as large a setback as it would've been months ago.
What's worse, a delay, or a company killing the entire community before launch? Toby should walk up and give them their choices to back down or lose money, and soon, as otherwise he might as well cancel it.
@@nylana4552
It would delay it since the company is responsible for releasing the OST on different platforms, as stated in the video
If there is an internal problem between Toby and Materia Music, Toby has to delay the game's release due to not having a group readily releasing the music as Deltarune chapters are released
@@nylana4552a legal case could potentially drag on for months in courts.
A company doing something scummy because they're obsessed with money and power? Surely not.
The moment "copyright" and other legal bs was forced upon online fandom spaces everything went to hell
People who just want to be creative shouldn't have to suffer with rules that sound like they were made for corporations
That's because these rules WERE made for corporations. There was a time when the song "Happy Birthday" was copyrighted, and you'd have to pay a mssive royalty to use it "commercially". After years and years of cash grabbing, a court finally settled this absolute bs and made "Happy Birthday" free to use.
Copyrights and Patents were made for *US* as creators and consumers
So huge companies and conglomerates wouldnt just steal (at first) research results, inventions and discoveries of scientists and engineers. It was then developed to encompass creative works to protect small artists from getting their rights infringed by media giants. It's use has been wholly corrupted by publishing companies abusing it to abuse smaller creators under the pretense of protecting a larger creator's copyright.
it was _just_ made 'for' corporations, it was alao made _by_ corporations. Disney essentially wrote modern day copyright laws to prevent anyone else doing the exact thing they did.
just call the drunk men’s choir then there’s no more copyright issues 👍
dougdoug
They are so good the can’t be copyrighted
DOUGDOUG FAN SPOTTED ❗
so real
DougDoug mentioned!
I still find it funny that "sebastian wolff" sounds like the evil counterpart to "toby fox"
is that a starfox reference?
14:00
Calling a CEO of *anything* a human?
Bit of a stretch there, friend.
This copyright is *pissing* me off .
I really do hope Toby Fox takes action. Not only is this unacceptable, it's unwarranted
He's probably doing something soon or so, he hate when this shit is happening
He is probably staying quiet and going for the legal route.
With Toby’s and Zuns crossover collab song UN was hero coming out the same day as the new touhou game on febuary 8th next year chances are toby may outright end up dropping materia as a publishing company
And i do hope he takes this seriouslly and dont just blindly listen to fans who have no ideia how copyright work.
Copyright and trademark are complicated, and i do hope he doesnt get any trash when he has to tell the fans that he cant do anything about it.
@@liam66546 Wow he work on TOUHOU collabs? That's pretty cool
Is it possible for Toby to just decide on a whim "This isn't your music anymore, I'll find somebody else" When it comes to music licensing?
Just take his ball and go home?
Changing the terms of a contract retroactively can be grounds to have the contract annulled and take away their ownership of the licencing but if the contract doesn't have an actual exit clause it may require getting the Courts Involved in order to get a judge to forcibly declare the contract invalid
My only fear is that Toby is admittedly bot a law guy, so he probably will need a lot of help in case he decides to take it to ocurt or even know he can
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard he most likely has lawyers, so whatever happens he has them
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizardprobably he’s rich so he can afford a lawyer
@@nrmedia3999 I recommend you read "A Brief History of the Ownership of the Beatles Catalog". It's not worth it. Toby would just have too much to lose and almost nothing to gain from it.
I went through a college course for business in the Music Industry and, a lot of what Wolff mentions is unfortunately how things are pushed along monetarily in the industry. Licences and aggressive copyright claims are a large source of income for publishers and artists outside of merchandise sales and ticket sales.
Materia Collective has had issues and disputes in the past that led to their "FALLEN: An Undertale Tribute" album being removed from all platforms, FALLEN being an album with 100~ songs and even more artists. Few of the songs from that album are still available on obscure CZcams topic channels, but the majority of them are kept locked up in the copyright dimension.
That is so sad, considering that Toby Fox LITERALLY ALLOWED the use of ALL his songs, including remixes, covers, and fan made songs using his soundfont, all without his permission as long as the creator put the credits to Toby Fox in the description.
I hope more artists will join the self-publish movement to combat this evil thing
@@sihamhamda47 A lot of the sounds in the UNDERTALE soundfonts were from EarthBound and Megaman (X?) soundfonts, and the EarthBound soundfont used sound clips from things like Beatles songs-- Frankly, the legality of using a soundfont with copyrighted sounds (albeit modified) is kind of a grey area at this time; soundfont usage as a format is uncommon nowadays and in some cases the call-to-court rights would probably be in the hands of the people who invented or manufactured the instruments used in the soundfont sound clips, which is probably (thankfully for creativity) never going to happen.
Also yes, Self-publishing is becoming more accessible thanks to online services providing platforms for it! It might take a while, but it's looking better. :D
How can you pay a company to do literally nothing, but that company fails in almost every regard. I'm not sure how copyright really works, but given that Toby Fox doesn't mind people using and profiting of his work with no attribution, why not just distrubute the files under CC0 public domain?
Ngl, the worst outcome of this situation kinda sounds like the what if of "what if Kevin Macleod just decided to copyright strike every video with his songs in it"
Like Undertale's music has gone way past the stage where they can just change its copyright system on a thumb, right? Just my humble opinion of course.
Maybe Kevin MacLeod and Materia should do this so that they finally realize just how insanely absurd this barely functioning copyright system is.
@@RGC_animation Kevin cant thankfully.
@@DoYouSeeBananaManTHCreative Commons has a specific "no DRM" clause - you're not allowed to use Creative Commons work on anything that has DRM. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem for CZcams, but the RIAA has been trying to sue the pants off of CZcams downloader type sites specifically by arguing that they crack DRM. So if the RIAA gets their way, Kevin McLeod could copyleft troll the whole of CZcams.
@@SuperSmashDollsI would pay to be a fly on all the walls if that happened.
I genuinely hate the copyright materia music does, for example I made a cover of "Red Megalovania" from Dusttale, and I got a copyright claim for it just because it had "the melody of megalovania". I tried disputing it yet I got rejected.
I still have that claim to this day
wait. so if red Megalovania can be claimed because it "had the melody for megalovania" in, then like at least 95% of UT/UTAU music could potentially be at risk because they might use parts of UT's music.
right?
@@sna_helptalwelcome to the reason we'll never get mother 3 in the us, and the insane world of us music copyright that prevented earthbound from having a rerelease for around a decade and mother 3 to never get a us release as several songs use melodies from other tracks such as mr Barry's theme using one from the adam west batman series
@@sna_helptal yeah that's a way to sum it up
@@epicifiedd oh. uh. that could be really bad for the community in general (basically all the music goes poof so less or no more cool stuff. )
I don't know if I've received a clame from both versions of my Latin Megalovania cover, but on the extended version I've said that originally this song was composed by Toby Fox, somehow giving credit to the original composer only.@@sna_helptal
I have a feeling that the main issue is with the CEOs and owners of the publishers/license providers LITERALLY can't fathom the concept of someone ALLOWING other people to use their IP... In their "Money-Loving-Ways" views it is something so insane and ridiculous idea that someone might not WANT to legally punish people using their stuff, that their brain crashes and fall-backs on "they must be insane" opinion and ignore their wishes.
This is why Taylor Swift wanted to go independent instead of being tied to a label. She knew producers would abuse her music and not allow her the freedom to control her own music. More artists should just start going independent so they can have full control of the music they create.
Being independent also gives more advantage, including enabling revenue share for every copyright claims so the money gets into BOTH the artists and the creators using their music
I really think Toby needs to address this. If he's changed his stance on fangames and their music and stuff and Wolff is truly acting in good faith, then he needs to say. I know it's a difficult situation but honestly right now the silence is deafening.
Edit: He has now addressed it and world peace has been restored.
It's the holidays; I'm sure he'll have a statement once the celebrations are over (and assuming he's not okay with this gets into contact with Materia to ask them what they think they're doing). In the mean time, let him rest. He deserves it for all the hard work he is always doing, and pushing that work through even a recurring wrist injury.
@@polocatfan where did transphobia come from lil' homie????? just bcs a trans creator is dealing with this seemingly alone (which i heavily doubt since Materia's always been kinda shady) doesn't mean its transphobia. materia sucks but i heavily doubt its transphobia, though it might very well be, idk.
@@polocatfan
Just noting,
You really seem to make some large leaps in conclusion often from just seeing your comments man.
Chill out a bit, view subjects more moderstely and don't leap to assumptions or projection.
Like, Toby is likely working on a proper statement or caourse of action,
Those don't just happen overnight,
He's likely gonna take time for a careful course of action, plus it's the holidays and he's working on CH3/CH4 and has a wrist injury from overworking himself.
Literally nothing here seems to be about yransphobia,
Cibbles isn't the only person that has been struggling against tjis copyright,
Many others have had issues, it's just really getting massive attention now.
MAYRO!!! THE QUAG QUEEN!!!
@@polocatfanhow is it transphobia 😭
i feel really sorry for toby, not only is he dealing with chapters 3-4 of deltarune + his own personal life, but now he ALSO has to deal with this
Even, worse, three to FIVE. Man is fucking goated, but I feel bag for him
He also have a collaboration with another developer Jun'ya Ota to remix each other music for the fangame Touhou Danmaku Kagura
Absolutely absurd situation. Really appreciate this video for putting yet another spotlight on the infuriating ways copyright gets abused by holders, especially on YT.
(side note: it feels SO weird to be jumpscared by my UT boss themes compilation showing up briefly in here, haha)
10:22
Sebastian wolf is way too goofy looking to be that comically evil 💀
Oh gosh, this is such a bad situation. I hope all this gets resolved quick.
Nah
@@JuggleMyBall fym “nuh uh”
@@JuggleMyBall Moron
I’m so glad that you brought this to light
Brought it to Light
YAGAMI
@@VERGIL...- Yagami... you mean Kira?
My name is Yoshikage Kira. I'm 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the Kame Yu department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn't lose to anyone.
Remember that CEOs are definitely the least knowledgeable people
This is why you release music under a public license. The moment you involve a company that is for-profit, you'll have problems. You're just asking for trouble when dealing with them in an area as this.
This is actually a problem that is present for ages, Undertale's music should not be lost like many nintendo music
And as many millions of videos used undertale music as bgm as Toby stated that people could use his undertale/deltarune music freely as long as his name is credited, striking any videos with undertale/deltarune music in it equals to burning a large piece of history books
- Man makes a fan game.
- Multiple casualities in music publishing companies.
that is why if you indie dev and making music, you should register your own copyright like tunecore or distrokid where you can control your own music copyright, it's not that hard.
I can't imagine how disappointed and/or infuriated Toby must be seeing this happen to his amazing and passionate community. Like, Toby supports his fans so much. I really wish that this situation can get sorted out sooner than later and I'm certain that if Toby does see this situation happening or already saw it happening, he probably will soon post some kind of announcement to resolve this
Toby should have sacked Materia for YEARS but this is getting ridiculous.
According to their FAQ they don't even own the rights, just help manage them on youtube. Presumably there is a contract in place, but it sounds like Toby could just choose a less problematic manager for those rights in the future. The issue is more if its worth it to do or not. Also these companies often manage the music because its profitable to do, so if Undertale Music isn't going to be enforced in a way that lets such a company make money by issuing claims, then its hardly worth it for them, which may make it hard to find another manager. That all said, if Toby doesn't want anything claimed, then why even have one of these companies as a manager in the first place. The whole thing is very confusing.
On the contrary, 7 years ago, Materia Music was one of the publishers most open to remixes for video game music. I have the impression that their policy change is very recent: less than a year.
One thing I genuinely wonder, is why Undertale Yellow’s team wasn’t even allowed to publish their music at the time. I mean, it’s from a fangame, as long as the music didn’t make any money, why shouldn’t they have been allowed to publish their music? If this applies to Undertale Yellow, then by that logic, this would apply to all other Undertale fan music.
i hope the problem will be fixed!
Nah
@@JuggleMyBall yah
@@JuggleMyBall , I’d win.
I don't think so (i'm a undertale hater. Because it's fandom)
@@phragrunt5680 yeah no it's fandom is garbage and even toby fox himself is worried about his fans
i sincerely hope that toby fox sees this (or anything to do with this) and does something about it
I don't
commenter but evil@@JuggleMyBall
I'm certain he's already seen it, and is already trying to.
@@JuggleMyBall bot I'm calling it now
Lmfao I lost it at the "experiment" part, he sounds like some kid who tries to act like the bad guy
Very informative. Thank you for making this video, it's wild how a company CEO can be that absurd.
We need Justice.
haha like that's the whole theme of the fangame i get it
The J in "capitalism" is silent. -_-
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter Starlo!? Is that you?
... Somehow, I saw this and went "Hmm, what _would_ Justice (Guilty Gear) do about this?" then realized how messy that would be.
I'm an undertale musician in the fan community, I'm only still here because I love the fandom. I love my own community, but due to the circus that has become of undertale's licensing & copyright. I'm forced to cut a lot of it from my scheduled releases. any time I do now I release it for free & with a download.
there's a vibrant music scene in the communities' underbelly that isn't documented nor defended, truly creative scenarios & concepts tone wise are just getting killed on the vine now. that game may be a couple years off from 10 and it is toby's right.
but materia just doesn't want to deal with the differentiation. I get it, everyone is there to collect their cash, defend their rights. that attitude is a I just don't want to deal with the legal hassle kind of thing. when it has the potential to make everyone some cash if people COULD JUST GET LICENSES & THE CLAIMS RELEASED.
27 likes
What annoys me the most is leitmotifs getting claimed, just for a sequence of music notes, this is why we shouldn't let bots handle copyright
@@mariotheundying absolutely correct
@@mariotheundying Thing is that the alternative is not feasible at all. Thousands if not millions of videos are uploaded daily, no matter how big the team is, there's no way to manually check them all at all. Bots are, sadly, the only option.
@@toumabyakuya can't they do a song check % then? Like if it's 80%+ similar then it's a copyright violation or smth, short leitmotifs like that also wouldn't count at all and the melodies behind it would also differ sometimes
This is like if kevin macleod decided to start copyrighting his songs💀
this music copyright companies are parasites who serve themselves not the creators of the music.
Boy I sure do love the music copyright industry being flawed from the very core :D
as a musician, this is why i'm not signing with a record label
@@verybadatsinging smart man! the only thing they _can_ do for you in the modern era is advertise anyway, and they tend to not even do that if you aren't a specific kind of generic garbage.
@@verybadatsinging supported
Toby surely has to do something about this. Like you ARE able to use Undertale music in non-undertale related videos. eg. In literally EVERY sponsorship add in Alpharads videos he uses Dating Start. No problems.
True, even Alpharad contacted Toby about it and he said something about yeah you can use on sponsors
@@Red-lu1rxHonestly, his response was one of the funniest 'music licenses' I've ever heard. He essentially said 'I just use a bunch of free stuff to make my music, so you could theoretically remake it really easily, just say it's an original song.'
So essentially, every time you use undertale music in a video like that, it is now a Schrödinger's Cover.
@@themc3140 yeah it was unexpected the response
TLDR; CZcamsr clickbaits you to tell you something that you likely already know; that copyright law is broken.
It's worth noting that these songs have appeared in some Konami rhythm games like Sound Vortex, so it seems the Copyright Strikes are likely because they are now considered licensed music as it stands, alongside Toby Fox's compositions for Pokémon, as The Pokémon Company holds the rights to his music for the series.
They’re literally becoming like Nintendo was during the early 2010s
Materia Music - “we changed the rules no warning”
People - “why didn’t you tell us”
Materia Music -
materia music be like " "
they rlly think they're Kris
This is basically how all companies behave at the higher levels, what were witnessing is a company that doesnt have several layers of PR to stand betweens the big wigs actual thoughts and the public.
The worst part about this is that this could actually harm Toby Fox's image. He really needs to come in and set things straight, because some people could end up believing he's okay with this shit and Sebastian Wolff's tomfuckery.
issue is, most options he has to deal with it work far better if he stays quiet until they're over. that's the best way to handle legal matters. it's why you don't see shit like this often, because public statements in general (especially absurdly stupid things like this) can REALLY end up bad for you. you're just giving the opposition ammunition. In some cases accidentally giving them grounds for a countersuit.
May have had Undertale Yellow relay it because they are legally obliged to not post it to the main timeline on twitter for all we know (its probably inappropriate of me to assert guesses however).
Okay, so.... The lesson I'm taking from this is if I ever make... anything that I want to commercially sell, I should just be willing to handle all the copyright crap myself, instead of going through a company that might decide to go behind my back in how to handle the rights of the thing I made.
Thats what im learning from society too :O how to not trust society and get it done myself =)
I just realized how *bad* it could be if Wolff decides to go on and copyright the use of the Undertale OST… We’re talking about a full on purge and disaster for all of CZcams- since a majority of the community uses the ost in hundreds- no, thousands of videos.
Let’s just hope this gets resolved
I’d argue that even thousands is lowballing it. Undertale and Deltarune music are used in the background score of so, so many videos, even ones completely unrelated to video games.
(Yeah I probably went way too low on the numbers lol)
But yeah, it would be pretty bad for CZcams as a website, possibly over half of its content being endangered or even removed is catastrophic, though I don’t think we’ve seen anything like it. It might not be that bad, it might be a disaster, it might not even happen! We just gotta wait and see what happens next for Undertale.
If that happens Toby is definitely revoking the contract and if he can’t manually then he will take it to court
@@NightTheKittenn It's even gone further than CZcams. If I remember correctly both Snowdin's theme and Sans' theme were used in the news. So yeah, this will be a disaster of gigantic proportions if this snowballs into a widespread copyright strike.
My guess is they only went for the ones that would spell more trouble for the copyright, and some youtubers are making a big fuzz of it to get attention.
So theres probably no need to worry about this.
Ah, I remember how I've got a warning about Megalovania music that I put into one of my videos. But, that is very interesting, because other music in my letsplay of Undertale wasn't ever had any warnings. I didn't do genocide route though, but Megalovania can't be the only track with copyright. But then you showed their rules about letsplays and now I kinda understand how it can work
CZcamsrs are never safe when using anyone else's music 🙃
good
This whole situation has made me concerned about Channels that use undertale music, I really hope this doesn’t end up becoming so bad that the music can’t be used at all
Yeah, I’m scared because one of my favorite musicals is Undertale the musical by man on the internet, is only on CZcams and if it gets banned… idk what im going to do
@@Beabuzz123 I guess you'll just have to listen to music with good lyrics instead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Alpharad had the same issue. Toby just told him to recreate the whole song and claim it as his own
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter *gasp* HOW DARE YOU?!?!?!?!?
@@Beabuzz123 Tell you what, how about you post your very favorite stanza from your very favorite song from the musical, and let's see if I can do better.
Theatrics are good to get someone to pay attention. Good job with the video. And straight to the point.
Theatrics are necessarily good to get someone _in particular_ to pay attention. But they can be good to get _some people_ to pay attention, and _in turn_ have those affected by the commotion pay attention.
I see your pinned comment, but seeing that "be nice" does not make change happen, I've elected to ignore it.
"whats stopping them fro-" nothing. thats what copyright law is.
As someone who's been an Undertale CZcamsr for almost 7 years at this point (My old channel + my current one), I've just accepted the fact that I'll never be able to monetise Undertale videos. I've gotten copyright claims on Toby's music all the way back in 2016. Toby seems to have picked the absolutely worst option for a publisher. Materia(ss) knows that UT's/DR's soundtracks are their biggest money-makers and they'll do anything to hold onto it until the end of time.
Hoping to see a statement from Toby soon! And uh.. hopefully he'll change to a different distributor, though that probably won't be easy.
Also, the name should be a red flag. Materia is a _Square Enix_ trademark, and have you seen what they do to fangames?
I feel so bad for Toby. I already know that he's seeing all this and just desperately trying to figure something out.
The fact that a company can be this salty over a fangame is outrageous...
...well... it's nothing new, but still.
I find it funny how it's just you screaming over this happy go lucky music in the background 😂
it feels like when you are eating chips in class and the teachers tells you to stop so you go "WHAT ABOUT THEM?" and point out that other people are eating chips, but instead of allowing you to eat your chips she just takes everyone's chips away
dude chips in the class is not good don't compare it to this
@@user-bi5ym2kw7iCHIPS IN THE CLASS IS OFFICIALLY GOOD.
Copyright can be really useful to keep others from stealing your content and stuff, but it can also become the problem itself because losing monetization for an entire video just for a measly 10 seconds of remixed music is unbelievably terrible and an outright pain to fully fix it up.
At a certain point, legal or not, I think content creators should probably just stick to copyright free music (that they can actually verify is copyright free, not just some random CZcams playlist saying it is). Does it sound as good most of the time? No. Does it serve its purpose for low-volume background music well enough? Yes.
It's just not worth the hassle. This exact sort of issue comes up over and over and over again, and creators who aren't big enough end up having no real recourse because the powers that can do anything do not give a single shit about it until it starts giving them bad PR, which only bigger creators can create most of the time.
It's not a legality thing. It's a CZcams Claims system thing, and it's been this way for long enough that it's clear it's not going to change for the better.
Avoid copyrighted music regardless of licensing and creator statements - its still able to be claimed and it's unlikely CZcams undoes it unless it becomes a PR issue.
Either that or be casual enough about CZcams that you don't care if your channel gets demonetized.
It doesn't seem to be solving anything.
People still steal others things and other artists get pubished for doing nothing wrong.
Yeah, if the labels allowed 50/50 revenue share for this case, most creators would be OK
But they are not going down this path and instead saying "yeah you use 5 seconds of music from our label in your 6+ hours video, now all your revenue are ours now"
I have a lurking feeling that this is going to be like Scott and the merchandise agreement all over again.
This deeper
I love how copyright has gotten so out of hand in some things that even developers don't have control over their OWN MUSIC'S COPYRIGHT and openly dislike the way it's being handled.
At his point, every single media, be it music, games, cartoons, movies, etc. needs to become fully indie. Its insane what happened to the market.
Ever wondered why so few games feature licensed music these days? Its because the license often cost ALOT of money (WAY more then making an OST) and they often have an expiry date, which would mean that they need to either re-license the music (ofc for even more money) or simply stop selling the game.
It seems like we found another company that forgot a core tenant of Capitalism:
Don't piss off your customers; they're the ones who give you money.
Toby has all the leverage in this relationship. He can effortlessly find alternative distributors and hire lawyers to enact his wishes.
That is a TON of money to just squander.
Actually correction the core tenant of capitalism is "Exploit everything possible in order to gain more profit but do it in such a way that the convenience for privileged people outweighs the guilt they feel for supporting unethical practices and make sure the ones you really exploit don't have enough rights to fight back"
@@tentativegazer Please keep your politics to yourself. This isn't the place for that.
@@NitroNinja324 "this isn't the place for that" this is under a video depicting the CEO of a company unfairly wielding the intellectual rights of a creative work he did not contribute to in order to strike down fans creating art out of love for said work, all against the wishes of the creator himself. If you think that no political commentary can be drawn from that situation you are naive.
@@tentativegazer You're not making the point you think you are. This is about one scummy company's scummy actions, and you extrapolate that to be a statement about all of commerce. You're just telling me that you're incapable of viewing the world without the filter of your bias. You just sound preachy.
@@NitroNinja324 your average ifunnier in a nutshell then
I find it really funny that Toby is very clear about not caring if other people use his music, and other people make the arguments. Like, dude has said that you can claim since the assets used were free, you could have just made it yourself, and it just so happens to sound similar
honestly, I feel like toby fox should move away from Materia music, and all others who use it.
It clearly isn't worth it, and they seem to not even follow what you say.
unless they can fix what they are doing, it's likely not worth it...
Geez... I've been on the internet long enough that I have a feeling what the issue is. Granted, I saw this video two weeks too late so the issue is probably somewhat cleared up by now