Pretty sure a trip and a standard close would be the same thing since the hydraulics would be acting as dampers. Which is ideally how you want it if possible.
Not an issue. Even if one of the hydraulic lines did rupture the drop in fluid pressure would not be that drastic. It would not slam shut like you think.
Where is the air injection to stop water turbine damage? Standing inside the steel pipe before the water running the turbine is a wild feeling. The steel was 2 in thick.
On a pump-turbine if you lose connection under load the rotor accelerates and the centrifugal forces in the impeller reverse the flow and effectively act like a closed valve, Weight is added to the rotor to reduce acceleration and the inlet valve is closed quickly but not to quickly
At Dinorwig they have a surge shaft and pond for the machine shutting down quickly. Ffestiniog has relief valves which open quickly when the machines trip
Nice , doesn’t lose a drop! if you could just hold firmly the camera it would be an interesting video, we can’t even tell if shaft is horizontal or vertical
what kind of diameter and pressure is this running because i work in water treatment and i never saw a driveshaft of that size for a valve, the biggest stuff we operate is around DN1400 at a maximum of 40 Bar. Just Wondering :D
Once the large valve is closed. There are inflatable water seals on the upside(maintenance) and downstream side of the valve which creates a near water tight seal. A big valve like this does not have tolerance to be water tight. Seals prevent leakage to turbine and a thing called wire draw. The bypass valve equals the pressure across valve before open and close to allow seals and valve to move freely. Hydro Engineer.
@@loganslife717 Thanks for your kind reply. So is the air seal filled from external source (air compressor)? Can you tell the name of the valve and supplier for this valve? Thanks.
Most of the seals are actually water filled, usually by water pressure from the head of the plant. Can you private message me and tell me your application and I could tell you if I know a resource.
What is the fastest safe time to go from fully closed to fully open and generating power? I thought it was 17 seconds (from ~1998 UK Uni hydro study). Here, it looked like 60 second alone for the SpV/MIV? What is the fastest safe shutdown time from full power to closed? Is hydro still the fastest grid-scale source to meet urgent surge-demand of all sources (biomass, coal, oil, CCGT, OCGT, Nuclear)?
Windmill can be started quickly too? I guess solar is always on. And all the others work with a steam turbine, I don't know if they keep the pressure up even when it's not generating, but it sure add some inertia to the system.
The wicket gates on a hydro plant are between 5-20 seconds which let water into turbine. The MIV is upstream and usually takes 1:30 to 3 minutes to reduce open closing water impulse. It’s an additional water tight seal to close water off to turbine.
@@ronblack7870 private message me. I have an incredible graph which compares Tesla storage vs pump storage in Australia. Pump Storage has incredible numbers.
40% more power needed to lift the water than you get when it falls to the turbine hall plus costs of infrastructure needed equals 20-25% price increase. MAKE YOUR DAMS DO MORE GET 5-10% MORE from RDP Marine Australia a retrofittable units
It's easy, no use plc. The system is valve bypass, MIV Main valve, PHU - Power Hydraulic Unit of oil, contacts for Open, Close, shut down. Before Check pressure of PHU Open valve Bypass Check pressure in each face of MIV. Open MIV, time of Open is in ramp slowy. Close valve bypass. -work turbine In normal stop of turbine the MIV can Open In shut down the turbine the MIV Close join with gate in pipeline
Those bolts will be severely tested if the main valve trips on full flow, the counterweights will slam it shut as soon as the hydraulic pressure is lost. The water hammer due to the flow of water suddenly stopping will cause a huge surge in pressure. There is probably a surge relief somewhere on the pipework behind that wall.
@@letrainavapeur Even if you just chop the hydraulic line in half, the fluid doesn't vanish. The weights will still be working against the remaining hydraulic fluid as it's pushed out of the leak. It won't close slowly, but it won't be instant either, it'll still have some resistance to work against.
@@nate0031 Now imagine the hydraulic shaft mount breaking, causing the entire cylinder to drop along with the counterweight. It may be unlikely, but still a possible failure mode to be considered and calculated.
@@ljmike1204 I doubt it would slam, but the weight adds the ability to let it close without power, if the hydraulics ever fail for instance. It probably wouldn't fall like a stone. In case of failure I would imagine they can disconnect the lines from the rams, and use them as dampers, squirting hydraulic oil, hopefully into a bucket, and allowing the valve to close in a more controlled manner. The bypass also adds some protection against over pressure as the valve closes, by allowing a path for the highest pressure peaks to dissipate. There are also likely fail safes in the form of other spring valves to prevent, and equalise, vacuums and overpressures throughout the system.
Please consider this ,,, Snowy River 2 project in Australia will cost 2billion plus and be limited to the area it will deliver to . Yes it is a fact of physics to this type of application BUT There are no dams on this planet that run more than one bank of turbines were a three bank set is a workable improvement to all our dams . Billions of dollars worth of power from the same volume of water currently FLUSHED DOWN STREAM ,,,,,RDP Marine Australia ,,Simon Bowman
I can't speak to Australia but in Canada we build multiple dams downstream of each other, that way we extract as much as we can. Two generating stations within 50km of each other generate a combined 5200MW of power. By the time that water reaches the ocean it's passed through a total of five reservoir generating stations and nine run of the river generating facilities.
@@TheDrew2022 i think he means turbines directly in series. kind of like triple expansion steam engines? water goes from one turbine into the next . is there enough energy left in the water leaving the first turbine ?
@@ronblack7870 I think it really depends on the type of turbine used. It might be possible with low head turbines as they depend more on flow then pressure to spin.
Snowy is a pump storage facility for grid stabilization. Incredible project. Stores more energy than thousands of telsa battery warehouses. Enough for almost two weeks all grid power in blackout.
Seeing that valve close on that counterweight alone would be interesting, but I wouldn't want to be there in person when it happens.
One hell of a water hammer I bet
Pretty sure a trip and a standard close would be the same thing since the hydraulics would be acting as dampers. Which is ideally how you want it if possible.
That is one hell of a drive shaft!
Nice to see the operation. Spherical Valve & Francis turbine. Thanks for sharing.
That variable vane assembly is impressive!
So not one but two of Thors Hammers as counter weight balance on that rotary valve lol awesome.
If those hydraulic openers totally fail and the conterweights close the valve quick I wonder how much of the building would be left.
All of it? I'm sure the designers accounted for that potential occurrence.
Pretty sure they have two independent oil cylinders and pumps. But how to close manually if one of them fails? Maybe by letting the oil out manually..
@@AndreasDelleske No you just need a bypass valve, the weight will push the fluid around.
Not an issue. Even if one of the hydraulic lines did rupture the drop in fluid pressure would not be that drastic. It would not slam shut like you think.
This is dinosaur technology people. Duh. How long do you think we’ve used hydraulics in every application possible and dams??
Where is the air injection to stop water turbine damage?
Standing inside the steel pipe before the water running the turbine is a wild feeling. The steel was 2 in thick.
Imagine the water hammer effect if that MIV Hydraulic could blow and slam closed! I know it can't but it's crazy to think of!
On a pump-turbine if you lose connection under load the rotor accelerates and the centrifugal forces in the impeller reverse the flow and effectively act like a closed valve, Weight is added to the rotor to reduce acceleration and the inlet valve is closed quickly but not to quickly
@@melaniecotterell8263 interesting, thank you for explaining that!
At Dinorwig they have a surge shaft and pond for the machine shutting down quickly. Ffestiniog has relief valves which open quickly when the machines trip
Nice , doesn’t lose a drop! if you could just hold firmly the camera it would be an interesting video, we can’t even tell if shaft is horizontal or vertical
Why, that's just a fancy-pants 1/4 turn valve! 🧐 😉 Cool video, thanks for sharing.
This is amazing!
what kind of diameter and pressure is this running because i work in water treatment and i never saw a driveshaft of that size for a valve, the biggest stuff we operate is around DN1400 at a maximum of 40 Bar. Just Wondering :D
That driveshaft wasn't part of the valve, the water flowing through the valve turns that shaft to generate electric.
That was the coolest boring video I’ve ever watched 👍🏻🇺🇸
As the Guide vane is still closed, how spinning of turbine works
Mantap bang sukses trs
this is nuts!!
Good video. What is maintenance seal and service seal?
Thanks.
Once the large valve is closed. There are inflatable water seals on the upside(maintenance) and downstream side of the valve which creates a near water tight seal. A big valve like this does not have tolerance to be water tight. Seals prevent leakage to turbine and a thing called wire draw. The bypass valve equals the pressure across valve before open and close to allow seals and valve to move freely.
Hydro Engineer.
@@loganslife717 Thanks for your kind reply. So is the air seal filled from external source (air compressor)? Can you tell the name of the valve and supplier for this valve?
Thanks.
Most of the seals are actually water filled, usually by water pressure from the head of the plant. Can you private message me and tell me your application and I could tell you if I know a resource.
What the function of by pass valve ? Is it for equalizing pressure ?
Fill the inlet with water to avoid hydraulic shock when the main valve opens and also spin up the turbine unloaded…
@@allangibson2408 Ah. Thanks sir
I was going to ask the same! Thanks
The by pass valve it's for equalizer pressure before open the ball valve.
@@CarlosSilva-gc8ny Imagine the water hammer on that. ooooof
What is the fastest safe time to go from fully closed to fully open and generating power? I thought it was 17 seconds (from ~1998 UK Uni hydro study). Here, it looked like 60 second alone for the SpV/MIV?
What is the fastest safe shutdown time from full power to closed?
Is hydro still the fastest grid-scale source to meet urgent surge-demand of all sources (biomass, coal, oil, CCGT, OCGT, Nuclear)?
Windmill can be started quickly too?
I guess solar is always on.
And all the others work with a steam turbine, I don't know if they keep the pressure up even when it's not generating, but it sure add some inertia to the system.
@@ameunier41 Gas takes about half an hour to start up
mega battery farms are the fastest to respond. less than 50 milliseconds with tesla megapacks. proven in australia. unparalleled frequency keeping.
The wicket gates on a hydro plant are between 5-20 seconds which let water into turbine. The MIV is upstream and usually takes 1:30 to 3 minutes to reduce open closing water impulse. It’s an additional water tight seal to close water off to turbine.
@@ronblack7870 private message me. I have an incredible graph which compares Tesla storage vs pump storage in Australia. Pump
Storage has incredible numbers.
What is an MIV, and in what country is this located?
Main Intake Valve,- for a hydropower plant. Sounds like they are speaking French.
@@TheErilaz I'm French and it's definitely not French
@@TheErilaz it's India i guess
Main inlet valve MIV or guide barig are open but not hold how to solve it
40% more power needed to lift the water than you get when it falls to the turbine hall plus costs of infrastructure needed equals 20-25% price increase. MAKE YOUR DAMS DO MORE GET 5-10% MORE from RDP Marine Australia a retrofittable units
How do you synchronize to the grid‽?
Run the unit just off grid frequency, wait till your angles are close enough, and close it in.
Plz explain function and water flow to penstoke in valve before entering to turbine runner.
Fking good job we couldn't see anything moving or this would have been really fking interesting🤔😂🤣😂
What will happen if we open MIV before bypass valve?
if Open MIV before bypass valve, MIV NO OPEN, because de differential pressure in the sides of MIV.
Bypass valve, firts Open for equalizer pressure.
Those are a lot of bolts and nuts
That turbine shaft is rather large.
How to program plc for this main inlet valve..please help
It's easy, no use plc.
The system is valve bypass, MIV Main valve, PHU - Power Hydraulic Unit of oil,
contacts for Open, Close, shut down.
Before
Check pressure of PHU
Open valve Bypass
Check pressure in each face of MIV.
Open MIV, time of Open is in ramp slowy.
Close valve bypass.
-work turbine
In normal stop of turbine the MIV can Open
In shut down the turbine the MIV Close join with gate in pipeline
При закрытии забыли открыть байпас.
И допустили гидравлический удар в приходящей трубе.
Alternate title:
Watch me shake and move the camera all over
lmao!!
Nice
Thanks
0:00 Wow, there must be a lot of pressure inside that pipe that they need so many bolts to hold the flanges together!
Those bolts will be severely tested if the main valve trips on full flow, the counterweights will slam it shut as soon as the hydraulic pressure is lost. The water hammer due to the flow of water suddenly stopping will cause a huge surge in pressure. There is probably a surge relief somewhere on the pipework behind that wall.
@@letrainavapeur Even if you just chop the hydraulic line in half, the fluid doesn't vanish. The weights will still be working against the remaining hydraulic fluid as it's pushed out of the leak. It won't close slowly, but it won't be instant either, it'll still have some resistance to work against.
@@nate0031 Now imagine the hydraulic shaft mount breaking, causing the entire cylinder to drop along with the counterweight. It may be unlikely, but still a possible failure mode to be considered and calculated.
@@johndododoe1411 I'm sure they have a heck of a safety margin built in. They also likely have surge tanks or such for a worst case scenario.
Spherical valve
Thor’s Hammers!
Why is ther a yellow waight on the velve ???
For emergency close
@@CarlosSilva-gc8ny wont that give a water hammer effect ? If it slams close
@@ljmike1204 I doubt it would slam, but the weight adds the ability to let it close without power, if the hydraulics ever fail for instance. It probably wouldn't fall like a stone. In case of failure I would imagine they can disconnect the lines from the rams, and use them as dampers, squirting hydraulic oil, hopefully into a bucket, and allowing the valve to close in a more controlled manner.
The bypass also adds some protection against over pressure as the valve closes, by allowing a path for the highest pressure peaks to dissipate. There are also likely fail safes in the form of other spring valves to prevent, and equalise, vacuums and overpressures throughout the system.
@@ljmike1204 not if you dampen the return stroke of the cilinder
@@ljmike1204 Yes, the water hammer effect is enormous on hydropower plants. That's why surge tanks are necessary
Hello
Looks like the concrete is deteriorating all around.
Seen such dead weights for valve closing for first-time. Not efficient. Loss of kw for developing oil Pressure
Hii
thats alot of people to open one valve LOL
Please consider this ,,, Snowy River 2 project in Australia will cost 2billion plus and be limited to the area it will deliver to . Yes it is a fact of physics to this type of application BUT There are no dams on this planet that run more than one bank of turbines were a three bank set is a workable improvement to all our dams . Billions of dollars worth of power from the same volume of water currently FLUSHED DOWN STREAM ,,,,,RDP Marine Australia ,,Simon Bowman
I can't speak to Australia but in Canada we build multiple dams downstream of each other, that way we extract as much as we can. Two generating stations within 50km of each other generate a combined 5200MW of power. By the time that water reaches the ocean it's passed through a total of five reservoir generating stations and nine run of the river generating facilities.
@@TheDrew2022 i think he means turbines directly in series. kind of like triple expansion steam engines? water goes from one turbine into the next . is there enough energy left in the water leaving the first turbine ?
@@ronblack7870 I think it really depends on the type of turbine used. It might be possible with low head turbines as they depend more on flow then pressure to spin.
Snowy is a pump storage facility for grid stabilization. Incredible project. Stores more energy than thousands of telsa battery warehouses. Enough for almost two weeks all grid power in blackout.
@@TheDrew2022 would you not like to get say 10-15% more from the same volume of water?