Victoria 3, But Everybody Is Unemployed!
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- čas přidán 31. 10. 2022
- Send your disaster save to: VickyDisasterSave@gmail.com
Victoria 3 is not that easy. David sent me a Belgium save in which he attempted to build a social democratic nation. Today we'll check out what he did wrong and how to fix it! With some real world economics lessons in the mix.
Check out Victoria 3 here: store.steampowered.com/app/52...
Paradox Development Studio invites you to build your ideal society in the tumult of the exciting and transformative 19th century. Balance the competing interests in your society and earn your place in the sun in Victoria 3, one of the most anticipated games in Paradox’s history.
#victoria3 - Hry
I loved this save a lot and will be working through the myriad of saves y'all have sent me already!
today we will learn about cost of labour and competitive advantages!
Thank you for this. These videos have been very helpful in learning the finer details of how the game works.
This format is excellent, as learning from mistakes is way more intuitive than just talking about it in the abstract. Fun to watch too!
Did he integrate his colonies? Might have helped as well
for me it looks like his deficit problems began, when he adopted free trade and then fought against the lost income with cutting everyhing and raising taxes. Or am I wrong?
@@gijskramer1702 20 years to incorporate colony
So, having an economics degree, it's ridiculous how well the economic simulation in this game reflects real world frictions. Aside from being the one who chooses which industries get built carte blanche, everything you said is literally real world concerns of real world economists. I hope people get over the "But it's not Victoria 2" thing and see this game for what it is.
I agree. Though the fixed price for every good is really weird, I’m also not sure how they would make it work well in any other way
@@ackerman6709 Some simplifications are going to need to be made for the sake of gameplay and, well, the game begin able to run a simulation.
100%. I'm studying Commerce in university right now (accounting in my focus), and the economic modelling and interconnectedness of both local and global markets is stellar. What I love most about it is that I don't have to spend my time learning game mechanics of how to get rich. I can just do what makes sense in the real world and trust that it will work the same. Because of that, the immersion is off the charts.
Disagree. Factories can't scale back or increase production to meet temporary demand, so the player must constantly build to make certain industries viable, otherwise they'll lay everyone off which causes unrest which causes tax waste which means you have to increase your taxes which causes more unrest. Businesses can't import goods, requiring the player to set up manual trade routes, yet can let other countries buy from them, even if they are under a mercantilist government and supplying a vital product such as tools, which is totally bonkers. Certain professions do not need to be literate - for example a pop only needs 40% literacy to become a bureaucrat - or a particularly high standard of living, meaning backward nations and even non-westernised ones face no barriers at all to industrialising.
Want to see what the game is? Check price of goods. Build relevant building. Repeat. Forever. There is no challenge involved and every country plays identically. Warfare is clunky and boring. Colonisation is off-limits for small countries as it is based on core population size, not the colonial affairs institution. Everything in this game feels like a chore. I wasn't expecting a masterpiece as it's a PDX title at launch but holy moley they have a LOT of work to do to make this game fun. I've played 16 hours and that's my absolute limit.
Infinite growth, no crisis lmao
"This is a real-life phenomenon! It's called Dutch disease!" *Proceeds to massively invest in local oil rigs*
This comment is HIGHLY underrated
Incredible how well this game works. In EU4 every mechanic stands on its own. Victoria 3 really feels like one game instead of many minigames
Seeing Belgium owning parts of the Netherlands in the first few seconds already has me reeling
They always have the best oil reserves in Europe though, it's not a bad play
It's extremely gross...
@@blyatt France owning Frisland is even more gross
@@mikolaj2698 franconie having to be called bavaria although prussians own bavaria is the worst.
cope
I really love the idea of overtaking "failded" saves from viewers and explaining in detail what went wrong and how to fix it.
I think this way it is easier to understand how the different systems in Vic3 interact with each other.
Reminds me of Matt Lowne’s Kernal Space Program Series
I kinda love this as a literal interpretation of the Noble Obligation. This king is taking their oaths 100% literally, and providing for every last person in their nation
All hail the enlightened monarch
All hail Leopold Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, the Workers' King!
Thank you Vic3 for forcing us to learn AP Economics to play the game
Very good
One day they’ll make hoi4 force us to learn millitary strategy
except in AP economics they'd say open up and cut welfare payments.
@@4mazIngxXGamEr Yea well that would be more efficient.
I found it really funny that I unintentionally avoided the issue of the colonies outcompeting my "main states".
In the 2 playthroughs I got to the point of colonization I treated them like the real life Great Powers: Basic Ressource generators for my domestic economy.
This meant that even in my fairly liberal Germany the domestic workforce industrialized more while the colonial subjects brought in the raw materials, avoiding the competition altogether.
This video was very helpful as I do want to do a Socialist playthrough in the future and likely would have fallen for the same pitfall without it, thank you very much.
Ah, classic colonial exploitation
I absolutely love the video, thanks for posting and saving Belgium!
Obviously, I hadn't fully figured out how all the systems were interacting yet. But I love how incredibly common real-world economic problems emerge so naturally from the underlying systems in Victoria III-- my crises were so similar to problems with real world development, both in terms of the competitive advantage problem I dug myself into with free trade and colonies, and then the austerity trap that I panicked into in response. The base game of Victoria III is (understandably) a little bare right now, but the foundations here are fantastic-- with DLCs this is going to be an amazing game, I think.
Really great video, I learned a lot from watching.
So, the tradw unions had a very, VERY good reason to tend protectionist.
Well, it's a PDX game, after all.
In about 5 years it'll be a different beast, but argably even better and much more complete and complex! (Let us hope)
Absolutely the best Victoria 3 content creator by a big margin. Actual deep understanding of the game mechanics and great communicator of that knowledge. Can't wait for more, learning so much from these saving saves videos
Had basically exactly this situation in my first game as Belgium. Had no idea what to do. Thanks OPB!
Im mean the save is from a "David" so it might actually just be yours
Funny thing about the skyscrapers in this patch, if you que multiple levels when you first build it you can get more than one level, I didn't know you were only meant to build one levels of them and queued 10 when I built mine in Stockholm. The result were that I could have covered my entire bereaucracy need with a level 3 building in Stockholm
In my game the skyscraper actually went to Saxony instead of my capital in Berlin. That's just where the survey said the best site was. Might have something to do with urbanization, I had been sort of neglecting Berlin.
"I was ignoring Berlin" - Just like the German government in real life
One of the checks used is for urban centers, so yes, that was likely it.
Thank you for being my economics teacher for the day mr streamer
This was so eye-openning, wonderfully explained OPB, great video
Thank you for showing how complex this game really is. I certainly needed reminding. With all its flaws, it’s got a really solid foundation and the Dev response gives me faith.
Throughput gives you more output using more input for the same amount of workforce
Indeed, great catch! It still drives down wage cost per unit this way, but this is the reason rather than what I mentioned!
Hahahahaha I feel like this video is just social commentary disguised as a Vicky 3 guide :)
this series is turning out to be absolutely fascinating!
Absolutely crazy how everything's linked!
I was getting the feeling protectionism good trade policy. In my tutorial game as Sweden I was always upset by how the Germans (whose market I joined because they bailed me out of crippling debt and I liked them for it) were abusing my free trade laws to steal stuff from my economy, forcing me to make more buildings to supply THEIR needs while subsequently making my economy more dependent on their goods to sustain my factories. It was a vicious cycle.
In the end I made an economy-destroying play by breaking free from Germany's market (violently) and only survived because a glitch put me in a constant state of civil war with a 1 province african minor nation. That allowed me to declare bankruptcy a dozen times without inciting a real revolution, so I could infinitely deficit-spend to rework my economy from the ground up. Still barely survived until 1936.
Victoria 3 is a beautiful game.
Communist Monarchy?! I thought that horror only existed in the world of Hoi4 Great War Redux
Brilliant explanation of the systems! I'm glad I understand the game well enough to realize one of the biggest problems with this save was Free Trade but you explained it much more thoroughly than I could've. Subbed!
Wow! This is so cool! I thought I hit a bug today when my super well-off pops stopped working and my economy crashed, but I was just getting out-competed by cheaper labor in other markets predating on my free trade! I knew this existed in the real world but no idea it was a thing in victoria 3. This makes me want to try an isolationist playthrough next!
This made me believe that victoria 3 can the best gts game of all time if more polishing and warfare changes can be made
One of if not the most proficient CZcamsr at the game, a pleasure to watch, thanks for sharing!
As a new player who keeps having my economies just fart out and die sooner or later without knowing why, these disaster save videos will be a big help. I'm glad I found em and maybe I'll send you one sooner or later
Keep this save disaster series going! Entertaining and helpful, especially after learning to play the game from CZcams (Lord Forwind especially). Also the intro tutorial sucks and definitely needs a major overhaul.
This is the best advertisement for the game. I haven't bought it yet, but this video has definitely brought me a step closer.
Looking back, this video was probably what sold me on the game, too.
Awesome I was wondering why in my México campaign my welfare payments where 1.5 million, I had pretty much the same laws as him but my gdp was 1 billion, I was still in the green but i was in a situation where I couldn't stop building otherwise i would collapse, Quite literally i was outrunning my bankruptcy by growing my economy fasterer, the issue i was running into was it was unsustainable i was going to run out of resources quickly if that kept up
#bubble economics
I love how Paradox makes games that require a diploma to understand all of its mechanics ❤
Don't overcomplicate basic economics please 💀
This is really good and cool! I would love to see more disaster saves, I am learning so much from these videoes.
Yeah, some of the interplay of various factors within Vic3 are not intuitive at first glance. Thanks for the tips!
You have no idea how much this pleases my inner economics nerd
I really enjoy your "save fix" videos due to your in depth explanations of the reason behind every change you make as well as explaining concepts which I don't think are explained very well anywhere. The competitive advantage problem for example. I know I've scratched my head on a couple of occasions not being able to figure out why two of the same industries have different profitability while being in the same market, now I know :).
This game is deceptively complicated!
Man these video's are so helpful! Hope you'll do a few more
Hands down the best Vic 3 video I've seen so far!
LegendofVictoria3 back with another "Saving your disaster campaign" video...
I have found its quite easy to fix the wage crisis collapsing your industries really easily with relatively little budget, and it involves collapsing the prices of the raw resource market as you can overproduce your raw resources by quite a lot and while paying like 0.3% of taxes in subsidies. (Particularly, overproducing coal, explosives, wheat, fabric, lumber, and steel.)
This works largely because.
- Overproducing your RGO's tanks the profitability, but not by a huge amount. The RGO processes are typically highly efficient, so the subside for a 50% oversized RGO is only like 10% of the wages it puts out. You can do this on poll taxes.
- Overproducing fabric, and lumber is profitable because the base price in-> base price out of furniture and clothes factories is *excessively* high. Often a doubling in value where as heavy industries only tend to put out 30% more base price in goods, and chemical industries fertilizer processes often put out only 80% of their input goods in base price values. So if fabric and lumber are at -30%, you basically need to hit -50% clothes prices before the clothes and furniture stop being profitable even with high wages.
- Wheat has very low employment costs overall, so producing too much of it is cheap and has a high impact on SOL, and creates profitable large secondary industries as its easy to tweak the outputs of a groceries factory to be very efficient.
- Coal stays profitable and needs no subsidies so long as you never have an explosives shortage, even to like -40% prices. The explosive shortage mainly happens if you let it compete with too much with intensive grain farming (Chemical industries are hardly profitable if they have to compete with cow.)
- 80% of the industries that have bad base processes (High input good costs in-> Low output goods costs) are steel based. Paradox has rendered steel as a fundamentally noncompetitive material with high cost of production that never goes down (Bessemer process, open hearth process, and blister steel are all similarly expensive per unit of steel, contrary to IRL,) and a large percentage of the processes that use steel go from high profitability at base price in the iron process (60%) to low (Like, 5% to 20%.) Forcing steel to be cheap by running a small overproduction is the easiest way to fix this without resorting to tanking your GDP per capita.
But yeah, toying with supply in a economy like this can work absolute wonders, its finding how you can solve the biggest urban industry competitiveness crisis with tiny subsidies 3% to 10% of wages subsidies to a few farms, lumber mills, and steel mills. Since, the goods coming from those slightly too large farms, lumber mills, and steel mills is creating large secondary factories which are producing 5x the resource buildings wages. So the tax in->tax out is fundamentally profitable unless your tax waste is near 90%.
This can cause industries that are less competitive to remain profitable long after their wages have grown excessive, which can result in national guard countries hitting like +8 to +11 in loyalist pop bonuses.
Very elegantly solved, sir.
OPB you really need to start a fix your save series. Really learned a lot from this video.
Man this vid is so good.
I already had _some_ of these ideas (I'm not an economist or anything) but this video has opened a whole new point in my head. This should honestly be tagged as #educational.
Alot of people dont realize how deep eco sim this game is, in a playthrough i play as Spain and have a lot of colonies in asia, at the start i build alot of resource extraction, but at soon as i start building industrial factories, they started to pull my population from Iberia to the colonies due to higher standard of living. Losing worker running factory and tax payer at the same time.
My first campaign with Sweden ran into this trap. I dug myself out with extensive savescumming to find what was the problem, and then leveling the minimum wage institution down.
Very Helpful video , You are teaching how to revive and grow economy, Also it's good to see after taking a step you are explained why you are doing this and what we will get and how it ll help to boost economy... Keep doing good work I love to learn economics and politics through game 😎
I thought Victoria 2 was completely unapproachable. Vicky 3 is now one of my favorite paradox games
„Social democratic and progressive“ „everybody is unemployed“ you do the thinking
This is an amazing video to highlight how the economy works (or doesn't, lol).
Some of these I did intuitively, like only building resources in colonies, but others are very counterintuitive and you explain this really well.
While not to the level of the downward spiral here, this is what happened in my first tutorial game with Sweden into Scandinavia. I managed to more or less stabilize by hard pivoting into industries that catered to my population needs - large expansion of food industries and glassworks. But I did not consider how the only profitable steel mills and powerplants in my empire, that is the ones in colonies, were actually hurting me, nor that Free Trade agreements with all of my neighbours were probably adding to the burden.
I am looking forward to more of those disaster saves, they do a great job at exposing relations and mechanics that are not obvious.
I am frightened by how good of an economic simulation this is
Thanks so much, i play as Sweden and had push the welfare payment and min wage to level 5, it is ok at first but when migration event kick in, it add tons of unemployed to all of my cities and boom, economy exploded.
Man. You really need to do an in depth guide, these videos make literally every other Vicky 3 creator I have seen look like lost children. Good show!
I love love love these kinds of videos!
As a Certified Accountant playing this game, I really very much loved this save! I am not sure I would have picked up on all of theese problems. Well done!
I did this in my first playthrough as Sweden. I had free trade with welfare and workers protections giving my people a high standard of living. I didn't industrialize my colonies and the only way to keep power and transport working was to subsidize both industries. I was able to keep it afloat by being very selective on what I was trading for and what I was producing myself. Selling groceries and furniture to the rest of the world was the only way I was staying afloat. If only I knew this then I would have had a much stronger GDP.
This is opening my third eye of Victoria 2 Micro-economics
Homie needed to recover from an economic crash and single-handedly dismantled the military-industrial complex overnight
Thank you OPB!
For a game that models real world economics so well, it's bizarre to me that you can build a power plant across an ocean from the buildings that consume the electricity.
Indeed! They are looking into changing how that good behaves, but currently it's quite wacky!
electricity transportation and services are 3 goods that cannot be traded between markets but yeah I agree they should also make it not possible to transport them between sea nodes, a similar issue is that if for example the UK collapses and all their ports are occupied or deleted the market access of all of their subjects collapse aswell, like canada couldn't even manage goods in their own land because they technically have to go through the market capital
Lots of funny abstractions like that. Like the construction sector in the UK is building the factories in Cape Town. Are they shipping prefabs? What's going on?
Or how in this video the government can just decide to privatize every single factory in the nation in a single day and everyone's okay with it. Some things will have to break the laws of reality, lest they break the game.
@@someguycalledcerberus9805 that second part is technically not entirely accurate to what is happening, when production methods change that isn't a government decree ordering them to change.
The player is supposed to be "the spirit of the nation" which is why they can decide how private owners manage their workplaces or how in events you can "decide" if a radical is popular or not for changing into a daring ideology
Well, good on the game for fixing this. Although now it can get a bit micromanagey to make sure that every state has the amount of power plants that it needs.
these videos are incredibly useful, thank you
it is amazing that the game simulates the economy like that, BUT it is not good that you're forced to micromanage all of the economy, and all of the construction, through the ENTIRE GAME
"Attempted to build a social democratic and progressive Belgium, but then keeled over"
Sounds pretty realistic to me.
One of the best Viccy 3 Videos i saw in the last week! Very good content! Grüße gehen raus!
Wow thanks for this OPB you saved my Brazil playthrough!
This was a good tip, just going from free trade to protectionism. I annexed my puppet East India Company as Germany and ran into kinda the same problem - not entierly in a death spiral, but just passing that law gave me a another half a million instantly.
In this situation i think the better variant will be increasing consumption goods export, not lovering taxes. It will also help your industry and you will have more money to manage -> better control over your economy.
Two downsides of this variant:
1) Standard of living will decline and with time you will have more and more radicals. With better control over economy you can fix it faster. But if you will fail country will start exploding.
2) Maybe workers will ask a bigger welfare because of the taxes. But subsidies can neglect this effect. And by keeping taxes high you can subsidise a bigger part of your economy.
Smart subsidizing for most important industries will buy time in this situation. Also pops with lowered standart of living will ask smaller wages.
But if you will bankrupt, it's bad idea to increase taxes in the most situations. It won't help you much.
This socioeconomic explanation hits a little to close to home here in Poland LOL
My most recent run as the United States went like this: by mid-late game I was getting so much investment funding and tax income despite running lowest taxes I managed to fill up my entire 600-something million gold reserve and was literally looking for ways to spend it. Since my economy's demands couldnt keep up with the investment funding i decided to revert from Laissez-Faire back to Interventionism (to increase the Capitalists' dividends which would otherwise go to the investment fund) which as a side effect gave me back the ability to subsidize factories. So I did. All of them. After about a decade of this the subsidies became unsustainable and I ended up burning through ALL of that gold reserve before I finally realized it really was unsustainable and removed the subsidies. This in turn revealed that I was severely overproducing several goods, the result of my subsidies obfuscating supply and demand issues. After some fidddling with production methods I managed to stabilize the economy and get back on track but my GDP dropped about $400 million (From its highest point of $3.4 billion) in the process and standard of living about two whole points (26 down from 28) and didn't fully recover by 1936.
Why didn't you just build a bigger military if you were looking to spend your money? Or a bigger construction industry?
@@Joefrenomics I neglected to mention that I had already maxed out my military, maximum barracks and naval bases everywhere and max military funding. As for construction there wasn't much more I could build at one time without reducing profits.
This literally was happening to me as I clicked on this video in my game. I thought I was absolutely soaring man
Amazing lecture, love to see more
I bet there are a lot of people on both ends of the political spectrum finding out their preferred economic beliefs are lacking when put to the test (the games simulation). There are a lot of laws in game that only work when paired with laws form their real world ideological opposite.
I mean this Dutch disease business happens in the game only if you outpace your contemporaries. If the AI also managed to build a 2020 society in 1900 then you wouldn't suffer this problem since the minimum wage everywhere would be high. This only happens with the combination of all these factors and like they said you can fix it by removing any of the contributing factors.
1:09 Oh that's easy! That's the Bat Symbol! Bat Bavaria!
Something thats super cool is that you can form Iberia as the Philippines, now thats a good idea for a challenge game. From former subject to replacing your master.
the colonial part is probably what killed my first USA campaign I went super colonial and build the colonies in africa and south east asia just as much as I built the states. Granted I had next to no welfare payments or minimum wages but my colonies where way bigger than this Belgium campaign. Another thing hurting me was I was trying to make New Mexico the most developed place in the world and didnt know how to do that, still dont know how to do that.
Nice video love the explonations and i dont even play the game. Just something to watch before i go to sleep
An absolutely Amazing Video.
We really do need one in Brussels as well :p
I'm never declaring rivalry on Bayern again, tysm lol
High taxes can work but you need to be subsidizing then, and probably a lot. I subsidize like 4 or 5 industries usually with taxes on low or very low. Just depends on events or whatever. I do and have gone occasionally up to high, almost never very high except for times where I am making tons of profit and can afford the taxation to pad coffers for future endeavors. That last one almost never happens though, because I can never have high enough reserves to justify getting it that high.
Also, build your colonies from the ground up. Use them for raw resources to source to your homeland/heartland to make manufactured goods. Then once your heartland is ready to move to higher level goods, then you can start industrializing those colonies. Never industrialize at the same pace. Always exploit those resources for wealth.
Interesting, 1882 is also around the time my economy usually goes tits up. Looking forward to seeing this gets turned around.
I want to see you do a save about making a monarchy that goes extremely into the benefits of the people WITHOUT removing the monarch or the hereditary bureaucrats!
I can’t wait to play this game
As soon as the price drops on Black Friday that is
Great video. Makes me like the game more
This Bavaria is a hell of a Frankenstein.
very helpful video. this happened to me on brazil, and I suspected it had something to do with the welfare out-competing the jobs, but this gave me a much fuller picture
27:00 I actually managed to "foreign invest" when I liberated Texas. I basically started an export route to them with my cheap coal and engines and import route of their oil which caused their oil fields to suddenly be extremely profitable and drained all their skilled workforce from every other industry (Dutch disease moment). They were then left effectively only investing in their oil production which at the beginning was only 8/50. Still really wish there was a more formal foreign investment system.
Bruh, I can't believe you can have a great depression style economic colapse, with a spyral of unemployment causing lower demand causing more unemployment.
He legit made modern italy/spain and felt the italians pain
I was playing as germany with a similar idea to this belgium and at its height my country was paying 8.2 million of welfare payments
Wow thanks! I was so mad cuz of this, nearly smashed my keyboard xD
This was amazing.
I kinda mismanaged welfare payments in my latest game, and the same thing that happened here was the reason things went pear shaped for my Chile playthrough. It definitely helps to understand that all these powerful and/or good for regular people laws don't necessarily play well together and must be adopted on a case by case basis.
What an absolute legend.
I can't belive you, he's economy got destroyed by something that makes sense irl...Like ok never thought this game could go so realistic damn
Hit the EXACTLY same problem playing with Florence. One state only, italy form but I was a protectorade of Austria, so don't worries. My land was the land of freedom, every right to the people, no colonies, nothing. But then I couldn't stop unemployment.
you should look up lesson plans for econ classes and find some in game examples :)
David Vilain XIIII is even more funny considering it should be XIV not XIIII
My first playthrough was Belgium. Was doing super well until I got kicked out of the British market by becoming too powerfull. Economic crash ensued.
I was facing same insues, huge unemployments with emptys jogs, min wages is terrible mixed with free trade, huge salaries on factories making them umprofiteble and not filling the jobs making sort of products everyware.
Looking at the start, I think this is a classic case of changing the tax law into rofldeathspiral
i learn more about economic in this game than a collage class in universit. granted i did use what i learn there to boots the economy