battlepasses have changed video games forever
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2023
- Battle Passes are starting to expand into new games and genres - and having a profound impact on gaming as a whole. From the Diablo IV Battlepass, to the Fortnite Battlepass, each of us has a different experience with the concept. But with so much negativity around Battlepasses, why are they still around? And how are they changing the landscape of gaming as we know it? Max dives in to the history of the Battle Pass, its many iterations throughout the last 10 years including the Warzone Battlepass, its effects on us as players, and seeks to answer what we can do to stop the spread of Battle Passes to our favorite series.
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What I have gained from this is that I should start yoinking boinks to get the boink yoinker 5000 so I can yoink more boinks for even more yoink:boink efficiency
SOMEONE gets it!
100% yup
Such a powerful and poignant
statement.
@@VoxelShow I mean I got level 100 in 8 days on fortnite so I don’t need to put 3 months into that’s :/
@@VoxelShow and I still play it for fun, therefore 9:00 doesn’t apply to me, I don’t NEED the BP, it’s just extra rewards. I like the satisfaction of just plain leveling. After 200 you get no more battle pass rewards, but I still strive to get more. (My highest level is 299 😭)
Watching the segment on Deep Rock Galactic's battle pass made me think that I'm going crazy. The items in the performance passes are not sold to the players, but can be found randomly in missions in game. They are not for sale, they are completely FREE. There is paid cosmetic DLC for Deep Rock, but its totally separate from the battle pass. Good video otherwise though.
Yup! I flubbed! The pass is even BETTER than I say in the video. You are absolutely right!
Yeah! Once the season ends, 100% of the items get mixed into the normal loot pools. The only item gatekeeping is with the anniversary hats which are exclusive to the yearly event, and the only paid items are the DLC packs which only add cosmetics. And both the anniversary event and DLC packs aren't connected to the battlepass at all. Rock and Stone!
i cannot get through the fucking tutorial, it’s so boring and clunky, but everything i hear about this game makes me want to try again. maybe i’ll get there eventually, i want to support good devs like this.
@@Very_Okay I feel you on that. DRG is a game best-played with friends and the tutorial is an AWFUL experience for new players. Trust me, once you're in a game with 3 other people, the game really picks up and the different classes really start to shine.
Push through, then play a game with randos and see what you think!
@@Very_Okay I'm pretty sure you can skip the tutorial. The game does a great job of teaching you mid-game anyways. If you're still stuck you can join a public match, the community is super friendly!
Correction on the Deep Rock Galactic segment:
-Battle pass is completely free
-Cosmetic tree is completely free
-When seasons end, ALL cosmetics you did not earned go into already existing gameplay systems, no FOMO and no need for you to pay
-Deep Rock Galactic HAVE paid cosmetic DLCs, BUT they are only accesible from the Steam page, as to not disrupt game flow/gameplay experience.
Great video otherwise.
Deep rock has to best battle pass of all time
@@lynnright666 Yup, it's battle pass done right !
And buying one of the DLC cosmetics packs is more seen as a way of financing Ghostship Games from players when they want to thank them for the work and love they put into their game. I know buying a DLC wouldn't gime me much, but the main goal for me is to thank them by giving them a bit more money. Knowing DRG is sold 30 euros on Steam and often discounted, it feels like it is worth much more !
On console you can access the dlc from the game
@@Backfisch5927 well it makes sense since you dont have steam on console (?)
I personally wish every paid battle pass was forced to worked like Halo Infinites.
I paid for the pass, I should be able to progress it at my own pace, not the investors' pace.
Aye, more like the traditional Expansion Pack + Challenge Log to check your progress for it. Non-timed new content areas.
What if , when you pay for it... the time limit just..... goes away? o:
@@Kyugorn why don't we remove the time limit in the first place?
@@Eshtian Good question. Ask game dev management xD
@@Kyugorn well it's your idea to go half on removing the time limit so what's your explanation?
My biggest problem with battle passes, or other cosmetic microtransactions, is that it's not just the fact that the cosmetics could have been part of gameplay, it actively discourages developers from making other cool cosmetics in-game that compete with their paid counterparts. It turns good game development into the enemy of a good buisness.
a game is centered on great gameplay, if they nailed that then you dont need cosmetics. if you are gonna sell cosmetics they better be cool and unique or no one will buy them. I see no issue with glowy bought items vs my non glowy free items as long as there is no change in gameplay because of money spent.
@@IVIUT3D Cosmetics are part of the gameplay experience. If we take your logic to the extreme, then the company would be justified in replacing every free item in the game with an ugly, pixelated mess, and only offering you good looking items through the shop. F that. If you respect me as your customer / player, REWARD ME for playing your damn game. Progression is the whole point of playing any game. You don't get to hinder my progression and then say "it's just cosmetics bro, why do you care how something looks? Your damage numbers are the same."
It's a greedy, corporate, maximize profits at all costs kind of mentality, that doesn't genuinely care about making the gameplay experience better for its players, but only cares about doing the bare minimum. Expect more.
No Google, I don't want to use my real name. is it really greed when game creation cost has gone up by 300-400% while the normal price for a game has only increased $10 on one platform? game creation has vastly out paced cost to consumer, so by your logic they should just stop making games as they will always be a complete loss in the dollar column.
@@IVIUT3D Yes, it is obvious greed. Firstly, "game creation cost" thing is a myth. Even if true, no one is forcing game companies to make expensive games. You have entire asset libraries and even game engines with prebuilt levels, FOR FREE. So spare me the woes of the game companies being forced to raise their prices. They don't even have to publish the games physically anymore. The workers can all work from home. The game releases are now GLOBAL and things like DLCs are mainstream. If you can look at all those arguments and still say the price is just too high for them, I'm sorry, but you must have some softspot for greedy corporations for who knows what reason.
Let's put all that aside and assume that we live in this hypothetical universe where the consumer is just oh so demanding that a game company couldn't possibly make a cheap game to satisfy them, and the attempt to do so would make them shut down unless they either rush the games or bloat them with microtransactions. You know what I fucking say to that? GOOD. SHUT DOWN. The video game industry is saturated with shitty, mediocre cash grabs from said greedy "game" development companies. You think it's all just organic growth? No, it's people in suits who see video games as an investment, not art, not entertainment, not something meaningful to people, pure buisness. All the game development companies from the 90s who were actually passionate about games, and started entire game genres on their own, have all been bought up now by giants of the IT corpo world. Microsoft, Amazon, Google, you name it. Literally the only big game company left that isn't owned by some mega parent company, is Nintendo, which is, go figure, not part of the greedy western culture.
@@IVIUT3D Cosmetics are a MAJOR part of gameplay! Warframe and Team Fortress 2 would be completely different without them. Hell, Warframe's economy probably thrives on cosmetics since most everything else is free, including other cosmetics.
My only interaction with battle passes is to actively ignore them 😊
"The game has what? No thanks." Friends don't let friends play Skinner boxes.
Ignoring fine but they push it in your face constantly. Having them in free games is bad but putting them in paid games like crew 2 and diable 4 is some examples is just disgusting work from devs.
What battle passes have done to me psychologically is given me a visceral disinterest in AAA gaming and pushed me that much further into the indie and foreign game spaces (most games in my Steam library these days were made by small studios in central and eastern Europe. The Czech Republic in particular has a wonderfully thriving game development scene.)
I think we're seeing divergent evolution-one might even say "speciation" in the Linnaean taxonomic sense-in which, as I've said before, you can have two people who are both "gamers" but who have precisely zero overlap in the games they've actually played and who, if they are given each other's games, will have no more solid idea of how to play the other's games than a person who has never played a video game in their lives.
In the primordial soup where the first cell coalesced from lightning striking a random arrangement of proteins comes the common ancestor of both bacteria and human beings. So too can we trace lines from "Tennis For Two" and "Spacewar" to games that are as divergent as Fortnite and Euro Truck Simulator 2.
sorry i didn't understand anything you typed, can you type it out again but like how a caveman would speak?
I find myself playing older single player games.
@@reffa2858because they're actually geunine and don't rape your fucking wallet every little chance they get. They don't do it at all. They give you a game that you can legit enjoy.
The primordial soup was a nice analogy!
@@manboy4720 Big light stick fall in tasty soup. boom. thingy is done. it lives. game same. bocha bocha.
I completely agree, not every multiple player game needs a battle pass. Personally I think the games that made battle passes should stick with it like Dota 2 and fortnite. But all the others like Halo, Apex, COD, etc should find another way to reward players.
I LOVE Apex so much - I've been a big fan of the Titanfall universe since its inception. I just feel a bit left out having only played the game off-and-on. I'm with you on wishing they'd come up with a different monetization model - whatever that could be.
I feel like apex’s is less bad because you can still earn cosmetics,banners, possesses, etc through the loot crates you get when you level up, granted I haven’t played in a while so I’m not sure if that’s changed or not
Valorant is some of the worst microtransactions ever, no character skins, no free or earned gunskins, except sidearms, and they have a pass on top of all that, one hell of a game
When you see them in games you have pay upto 80 dollars or pounds is when I shudder the most. Seriously wish this crap was removed, this isn't making a game with a heart and passion its just milking us. How people defend this is beyond me. Chances are people that defend it are rich people that have money to waste, devs see them get passes and it's a win win.
The execution of these videos is absurdly high quality. Amazing stuff Voxel!
Your videos are super creative. I haven’t seen topics like this covered very simply on any other channel. I will support this channel for a long time
I remember caving not that long ago to the battle pass craze in Dead By Daylight because it had not bad skins in it. My first time wasn't bad because I played more than enough of that game that I finished the entire thing and had like a month spare from the end of it. This motivated me to buy the next one because I assumed it's not that hard to complete it in that game. Boy was I wrong. I was forcing myself to play the game because I was not nearly close to being finished with the battle pass I forked money for and I despised it. I started playing in a way that made me mad. Basically the only way in that game to progress the battle pass is to do challanges, which does not sound bad, but most of those challanges either ask you to a) play normally and it will be done (not engaging) b) throw the game or play in a way that is actively detrimental to the experience of the 4 other players in the match or c) do one or multiple things that you normally encounter once in a hundred hours of game time. I can't remember the last time I was genuinely angry because of a videogame but when I was trying to desperately do the c) type challanges, I just sat down and decided, I'm not completing the battle pass and I will never buy into another one every again.
The funny part is that Battle passes are meant to force the players into a loop of maximising playtime, but I ended up never playing Dead By Daylight again and months later even uninstalled the game because everytime I look at it in the launcher, I could only see the pain and suffering because of the battle pass.
First time buying a battle pass in apex season 3. Missed the next one and skipped the next 10 seasons. Saw what I missed out on and moved on. It's relieving
DbDs battle pass is kinda ass if you only solo Killer from what I noticed. Too many survivor trinkets and little good Killer stuff which you can't even see yourself unlike survivors so it's even more of a waste
I admit I have been a sucker to get odd ones here and there crossout example, but the grind was easy. That game is free not that I like season passes but after getting one couple weeks later another is there then another. I just gave up with games like this as its not only greed but I don't enjoy being forced do something in game. I game for fun and laughs not to be burnt out by season passes.
Splatoon 3 also has a free battlepass, the catalogue, it also refreshes every 3 months, but you can use tickets to boost how fast you gain xp for it.
Honestly Splatoon 3 is handling almost everything except stable wi-fi connection right. If Nintendo would only just get their act together splatoon 3 would be a perfect example.
As a fellow Inkling, I feel this comment in my *gills*.
And after the season is done everything gets put in the shop and the shell out machine
How do devs and consumers reconcile the fact that these Live Service games get iterated on so frequently that youre constantly asked to move to the newest game, leaving behind all the stuff you just paid and worked for?
Also, Max, the DRG seasonal cosmetics get added to the RNG loot pool along with all the other stuff.
Ahh! Thank you! I found inconsistent info online about what happens after the season.
As for leaving old content behind - I think it's a tactic to force you to choose between being "a real fan" or just "a casual". Battlepasses' impermanence actually work to create "true fans" of a game...at the cost of everyone else not quite feeling the same. Maybe that's the reason why so many Live Service games have closed down recently - they weren't able to convert enough people to that level of fandom.
Hard to compete with Bungie though TBH. 😂
They don't have to, why would anyone buy two skins?
Because they get tired of the old one and stop caring.
It promotes chasing the fresh new thing by forcing people to act on their bad habits.
Similar to how loot boxes are given for free so you are liable to become addicted.
I love the topics talked about on this channel that I don't really see in many other places and I'm here for every one of them.
Splatoon 3 has the best battlepass in the catalog, and its completely free, and the cosmetics stay available even after the catalog ends
totally agree. i love splatoon and the fact that the catalog is free makes it even more appealing to me. only thing nintendos gotta fix is the connection issues 💔
I love your videos. You have a good editing and presentation style. Keep it up and you will go places. :D
Heck yeah. 💪 Gonna keep it up!
In the 5 years my little brother started gaming, he's only played mainly Fortnite and maybe 8 other games at his age I've played 30 plus games and enjoyed so many amazing stories characters. I've tried to show him other games (I share my 30 plus game library with him) but he just says "oh look at this skin or look at the new season" really sad what most of this new gen of gaming is chasing PROFIT over PASSION really taking advantage of little kids
little did you know fortnite season pass is really easy to maxed out like you can not win for the entire season and still complete the battlepass
This is it and it is the future of gaming now. Even skins in games I really grinds my gears when they say you don't have to get it or its only cosmetics, yeah cosmetics that in my day gaming you had to unlock cosmetics and some was a challenge but playing the game as intended. Battle passes started on games like fortnight and dota now they even put them in a kids platform...Roblox lmao.
In DRG everything from the performance pass is added to the random pool of cosmetics one can obtain from playing random little events that can appear fairly commonly in missions (like bring the lost power cells to the crate to open it or find the lost inventory of a fallen miner) the only thing you can buy are some DLC cosmetic packs that are exlusive to that and not obtainable in other ways
I think Splatoon 3 does Battle Passes the best. Every season, there is a catalog to fill that is completely free, and if you don't get everything on the catalog, the missing items become available in the random loot pool from the Shell-Out Machine.
Great effort in these. Not many channels gets me to toggle the notification bell for all vids
Great video, Max! Well put together and very informative.
As a Destiny 2 player who was just hit with a $2 increase to the seasonal pass that is essentially a $5 increase because of in-game currency options, this video hits pretty hard. Although D2 is on the better side of value and respecting your time, it definitely still has its issues.
This video is crazy! Literally a master-class video. Can't wait to see you hit one million subs!
Sorry I thought I should bring this up. In DRG once the season is over the cosmetic rewards aren't lost. They are tucked away behind a loot crate system you can find by just playing the game normally. And it's not hard to find either, it's not even that uncommon to find one and they made a rather loud beeping sound to let you know when your close to one. And also. Deep rock Galatic doesn't have a cash shop. It has an ingame cosmetic shop using resources you get by just playing the game, two different ones infact that are both, incredibly common. You can get almost every single cosmetic by just playing the game. Aside from the stuff locked behind dlc
I love this kind of content. Great execution too! I assumed you had 100s of 1000s of subscribers. Keep up the great work!
Well said. Gamers in particular are living in a dystopia.
Before, you handed money and got a game, no further charges. Skins were a measure of accomplishment that showed others what feats you achieved for multi-player and were further customization for single player. Either way, they made you look cool. You actually owned the games you were playing, they were yours.
Then, free to play mobile games came along with in-app purchases, which tied the skins to wealth instead of skill, along with introducing a ton of other anti-consumer practices, but they all were generally self contained. Then, battle passes came along and free to play practices started to bleed into the industry.
Now, you don't own a lot of the games you play, devs seem to get greedier and greedier with how many anti-consumer practices they can shove into a game, free or full price. Pricing for cosmetics either come at cost, time or both, and good Skins cost seven dollars on the low end, and over half the price of the game on the high end. Games require more and more and more time wasted into them, with 100s of hours not being uncommon.
Exceptions to anything listed are uncommon, exceptions to multiple are rare, and exceptions to all (or near all) are virtually unseen.
I am super worried about this industry that a lot of all of us care about going forward.
Great essay. I can't bring myself to play battle passes. I've slipped into single-player game mode now with the exception of Mechabellum.
Every time I see a new multiplayer video game, I always say "I wonder what kind of battlepass does this game have?"
Same XD
My enjoyment of Genshin Impact went up dramatically when I started not caring about the battle pass or the Resin (time gated currency). Just explore and do quests at my own pace and do the limited events as they appear. I also soft-locked my game at WL5 which significantly reduced the grind.
You are the first person to talk about the subject and talk about the actual origins of the battle pass. Another banger as always
I'm just fascinated by this stuff! It's so important to understand where we came from - especially when we're trying to figure out where to go from here. 🙂
@@VoxelShow it was fascinating to listen. Thanks my guy for doing important talky stuff
I can’t believe this channel exists! We definitely need more videos, lifetime subscribers here
I just discovered your channel, and I love what you're presenting, from your emphatic and personal delivery of your essay, to the cute set you've made for these videos 😻
I was just _slightly_ hurt that you didn't mention the live service game that I worked on, Gwent: The Witcher Card Game, for a couple years, as we really tried to respect the player and err on the "generous" side of giving the player stuff .. when we eventually implemented a battle pass. 😅😛
RIP Gwent, but I've subscribed to you and look forward to seeing more from you.
Another great video Max. Great topic. My biggest issue is with the games you pay for upfront then have to continue to pay for with a battle pass. If I'm spending $60-70 upfront for a game like CoD, I don't think I should have to pay to unlock all the "FOMO skins" and other fun add-ons. Heck, if CoD was $30, I might be (that's a big might) inclined to shell out 10 bucks here and there for a battle pass as I enjoy CoD online multiplayer. A game like Fortnite or Apex Legends, that is free to play, I am completely okay with having battle passes. I understand it costs money to create good games, and keep them viable in the video game market. Keep up the great work Max, love the content.
Good stuff as always. I don't really hate battle passes but I really don't interact with them much. From your video I do really like how deep rock and halo do it though, they're much more my jam. The only ones I've really interacted with are destiny, warzone, and fortnite none of which I felt particularly stressed to finish. Through there were a couple seasons of fortnite early on i did. I've gotten over my fomo for skins I think. I just use the coolest one I have at the time and play to have fun. It's REALLY helped enjoyment
The worst part is the FOMO. Making it so that certain stuff is only available NOW or its GONE FOREVER.
FOMO doesn't make me want to play a game at all. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever I partake on it. I don't want to be forced to play a game just to unlock something because its time limited.
DRG did it best. 10/10
Hopefully this video goes viral! Really enjoyed the video.
I love how everything can be traced back to Valve. 😅
Great video. Have a sub! Thanks for your work!! I know immensely more about the structures and concepts behind the battlepass. Wonderful.
Say. It. Again. For. Those. In. The. Back! RESPECT MY TIME! You know me and you know how much time I used to have to devote to these types of games. Hell, you know the one that I cant shake. I absolutely hate that the BP, the seasonal content, the content vaulting yearly means I legit have to think about how much of my life I want to devote to this thing and outlet I'm passionate about, or to like....work, the real world, or being a human being in a free society. I may still love the game for what it is in the moment, but I resent it for the choices it makes me feel like I have to make.
It's fair to say I don't work or have much a life but even I don't get time or want to waste precious time with BPs.
I feel old now. Cause when i started gameing, back in the 90s, most games didn´t have progression system. They allowed you to play the entire game you bought, from the start. And if they locked stuff, then they had cheatcodes to just unlock it. For those who already did it once or are like me, who just want to play the game without being artificially hindered to do so.
I miss the days when proggression systems where optional.
(except for RPG games, right?)
@@skipmanghondarg In RPG games it was an integral part of the experience. But that just caused it to have even more options. In Fallout, i can mod the game or even straight up use the developer console to play around with the progression.
Want to see how it is, playing the game with max level, all traits/perks from the star ? I can experience that.
Progression to fast/to slow? I can adjust the rate to my liking.
I find it very sad that many games don´t allow that anymore. And thanks to monetization moveing into progression, this amount of freedom has become even less likely.
Some my very first games super Mario world all stars, Dizzy the egg( bet many don't know dizzy lol) sonic games, mortal kombat, killer instinct and lots nes, snes and even amstrad. First time I got my first ps1 I was so excited and ps1 was a great era for gaming with games like resident evil, final fantasy, metal gear solid, crash bandicoot and many many great titles. These was the days when company's actually cared about your entertainment. Is a shame see what's happening to modern games, hell some the modern games great but I wait for a sale now as games just rarely worth the full price in my honest opinion.
Also megaman it didn't save progress only a password would save what boss you done. If you died would lose powers I think.
This deserves a lot more views! Great vid, and my first.
We're a very similar demographic. I love that you've included Dota and PUBG specifically as I've spent most of my 'adult' gaming career on those two games specifically; I otherwise play single player games (no battle passes) and 'retro' titles. Hard to believe they're making so much money off such garbage but it took a while to accept I am a part of the problem.
At this point, I'd honestly rather just pay subscription costs at this point which is crazy because that's specifically what stopped me from playing games like WoW when I was a kid.
in the early Dota battle pass days, it did feel exactly like @12:00 -- you were gonna be playing for so long anyway, might as well get a little more out of it - and I felt like I was supporting the game.
I played DOTA from about 2014 - 2021. I started playing PUBG for the first time on my old playstation specifically when my gaming PC died.
In the last year or so that I've played PUBG (July will be my 1 year anniversary) I noticed the Battle passes were very lackluster... the rewards which you show on screen here (from the most recent season which is funny) were god-awful and lazy... (The money print suit / backpack was so awful)
A few days ago when it ended, I looked at my inventory and was SO unimpressed that I decided to never buy another one from PUBG. Funny enough this vid should come up.
honestly I think splatoon 3 has a super well designed battle pass system. if you don't complete the catalogue all the gear is still in the shops next season and you can still get the new emotes and banners from the gacha machine next season, although you are at the mercy of rnjesus but it's at least still there and completely free but still feels good for the people that grinded the catalogue cause they got the cool new gear and emotes before everyone else
I'd love to see you do a deap dive on Warthunders moneitization what is in my opinion one of the worst offenders interns of monetization in the modern gaming era
Warthunder hits the battle pass box, whitest having a monthly subscription, and a cash shop
Which sounds great for a f2p game but the battle pass effectively has 2 real game rewards, the cash shop has a minium price of 30usd and a max of 70 (currently it's been creeping up), the subscription service makes the game barely playable on higher ranks as it's the only way to earn more in game curencys than you lose because warthunder charges you money for poor performance
I love your videos! ♥
I really like the way Minecraft Dungeons handles battle passes to be honest
There are two battle passes per season, one free and one paid. If you have both, you get a reward from both passes at the same time when you level up. If you complete part or all of the free pass and then buy the paid pass, you instantly receive all of the items you would've gotten if you had both battle passes from the start.
Not only can you complete any battle passes you missed at any time (similar to halo infinite), all of the paid battle passes come at *once.* You only have to pay one time and you permanently unlock the current paid battle pass, any older ones you missed, and all future ones as well
And to top it all off, *all* items on *all* battle passes in the game are entirely cosmetic. No one can buy their way into overpowered gear, and no one gets punished for not spending enough time leveling up. I personally consider it one of the best designed battle pass systems I've ever seen; it doesn't exploit fomo, you can still get rewards without paying, and there's a paid option to support developers that doesn't get up in your face or be pushy. I really enjoy it lmao
Halo infinites weekly ultimate is its main problem, it forces you to grind modes you don't want to play to complete all your challenges for the week to get a single item, if the goal is to get players to come back every week then it should be as simple as play any one match a day for 5 out of the 7 days of the week to get the reward, that way everyone can play the game the way they want while providing that limited cosmetic incentive to keep players coming back.
in the end battle passes are closer to gambling then loot boxes I feel, with loot boxes you always get something and most of the time you can buy another one when ever you want, with battle passes their is no guarantee that you will finish it and the items you don't get are lost forever giving you a feeling of missing out on skins you might not even really want and just like loot boxes most of the items you get aren't even ones you want or aren't even for a class you play, especially ones that don't give you credits for the next one.
I heavily disagree, BP's might exploit FOMO but they are nowhere near as bad as loot boxes. At least with BP's you know what you can get and how much money it would cost to get the reward you want right away. Also not mention that a lot of games had time limited seasonal loot boxes, which was the worst of both worlds combined.
Most games allow you to rank up the BP before you buy it, so you can literally wait and see if you get to the rewards you want before buying it. Some games does it better than others but still, BP's are way better and way cheaper than loot boxes.
Fuck no that’s a brain dead ass take. With the pass your guaranteed something of value, you can see what you can earn and decide if you want to spend that money, you can spend 100s of dollars on loot boxes and get nothing that you want and just filler bullshit. Plus the whole part of it being completely RNG dependent that’s rigged for the “house” (game devs) to win, just like slot machines. Don’t try to defend predatory ass shit like loot boxes. Sure BPs are tiring and overdone but loot boxes are some of the scummiest shit ever implemented into gaming.
With loot boxes there is no guarantee you will get something new. You just get a 500th clone item.
Most of the "new" stuff is junk items and low effort rewards to pad out the item pool. Loot boxes also require a server to connect too meaning when the game stops you lose those forever like with the Pass. Some Boxes are treated as a pass having limited time.
Loot boxes is literally gambling.
Awesome video!
Drg performance pass items can still be found randomly on the ground in missions so you arent missing out too much, the PP is just an easier way to get them
Limited time battle passes are the reason why I don't get into certain games nowadays. I really hope battle passes fizzle out, but if that's the case I do kinda fear what will replace'em
Small channel but great content, keep it up
playing drg as i watch this, and the it should be mentioned that the past, lost cosmetics are actually found in game in semi rare events! its completely free and very fun
The complete lack of research about Deep rock galactic season pass and monetization model in this video makes me question the validity of everything else in this video
I think a good example of an battlepass like system was oddly enough in a halo game, Halo Master Cheif Collection in the finished state that its at, to unlock the new customization through this battlepass looking progression system where everytime you level up or beat challenges you get "spartan points" to spend on a item of the 7 or 8 battle pass progressions where they don't disappear they just get new ones to be added on for free. But you can spend money on the spartan points to get what you want without grinding even though all items are usually 1 point.
You got drg’s thing wrong, the battle pass items get added to the loot pool (cargo crates or lost packs). I joined in late season three and my first skin was the season one warthog auto shotgun skin. They also have a double battle pass similar to the world battle pass from the call of duty game you showed.
Battlepasses are an obligation, not a reward. Always a chore. I fucking hate battlepasses...
This also and the fact they make you grind even though you spend for them is absurd. Every month new pass is insane.
One of my many dream games that I been wanting to make but am struggling to learn how involves a battle pass system, either entirely free or very cheap, but every battle pass is saved to a collection in which players can activate 1 at a time and progress older battle passes that are out of season but have to use the in game currency to activate
Ever since the major success that Fortnite has had on their battle pass, I've seen more and more of my beloved games turn to battle passes and lock basic gameplay behind pay walls. Its really a shame to see all of these games deciding not to consider what the player base wants! (a GREAT example of this is Overwatch 2, which, no one really wanted)
Call of Duty had me hooked (literally) and made me feel like I couldn't play any other game or risk missing out on battle pass stuff. I put my foot down, stopped buying them, and now I won't even be buying their games anymore. I've repurposed my time going to college and working on my game dev skills so I can not only make my own games but feel like I'm actually doing something productive, while still being able to take a break and go play other games.
you mention at around 3:30 that they are trying to "make up the gap" between the price not changing and cost of development getting higher, but you forgot to mention that the gaming market has exponentially increased in size, dwarfing it even 10 years ago, let alone 20.
Surprisingly, in the case of Fortnite I still play for fun and not just to get cosmetics. I do own the Battlepass but there are many ways to unlock everything. Many different player-made gamemodes give the xp necessary. But I agree that unlocking stuff via secrets, missions/challenges feels a lot better. I recently bought Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2 and I've been having so much fun unlocking different boards, outfits for different skaters, free in-game money to buy some other cosmetics. And many of the challenges are also really challenging making you think of new ways to link combos, discovering secret parts of the maps, and even discovering tricks you didn't know you could do because the game doesn't tell you about them.
One comment from around Halo Infinite's launch I will always remember.
Saying games have changed, and "FPS games have rewards now"
Yep... rewards. What used to be free (color customization in Halo) now locked behind a battlepass, also tied to armor "cores". They might have changed that by now I don't know. I didn't stick around for Infinite.
I remember rewards... What I see now are not even rewards, or a carrot on a stick...it's all pointless, worthless or tacky. I don't care anymore, I just want a fun game.
I've started playing Overwatch 2 in the first week that it was released and I thought the Battle Pass stuff would be cool to earn until I realized that you had to pay money just to get the cooler stuff in there alongside earning the new characters early into the game instead of grinding for that character for hours until you reach a certain tier in the battlepass. I personally don't have all day to play a game and I spend around 2-3 hours into a game per day considering I have stuff to do besides sitting in front of my laptop all day and having to grind endlessly in a game just so I can get a new skin or hero that I actually like really frustrates me. Not to mention Overwatch 2 is the only game I play as of right now that has a battlepass system. I'm sure there are better practices out there as you have mentioned but sadly we've come to a point where beloved game franchises are being used for monetary reasons in mind first and gameplay, content, and story second. Hopefully future games would utilize better methods in rewarding players for their hard work or at the very least make the battlepass worth playing for even for those that play the game for free. This video is really well put together and it sheds a light into the shady practices that these game publishers are doing!
Not gonna lie, I was tempted to get back into Overwatch 2 with the new season - fantasy-themed cosmetics REALLY get me. But after playing three games and still not reaching level 2 of the pass, I quit again. I can't convince my friends to get back into the game either because they all feel burned by it as well.
@@VoxelShow It really feels like a chore in all honesty. I want the new Kiriko skin so bad, but I'd have to grind through the battlepass without the 20% increase in the experience after each game since I didn't pay for the battlepass which is going to take me even longer. I've recently just reached the 10th tier and it took me at least a total of maybe 8 or more hours since I play the game at least 2 hours a day or less. You and your friends are better off playing something else that's better than this to be honest.
Battle passes aka the erosion of good game design and what pisses me off most is implementing battle passes into single player games (I love classic story focused games and i can honestly say that modern games are worse then older games in a lot of triple A cases
What single player game have you played that has a battle pass?
Whenever I finish a Battle Pass I always say "Fuck this, I want to play something else"
Others have already brought some of this to light, but that DRG segment is mostly incorrect.
As soon as the current performance pass is over a lot of the cosmetics just go right into the in game currency shop.
All the stuff you can't normally buy in said shop like weapon frameworks and colors will show up in the bonus cargo crates in missions.
The only stuff you pay actual money for are supporter pack style cosmetic upgrades that have content not found by any other method.
Battle-passes that cost money are literally worse then loot boxes. Yeah let me pay 20.- and then feel forced to play the game as if it's my 2nd full time job. I genuinely hope paid loot boxes, paid battle-passes (unless you can directly buy all the rewards) and premium currency become illegal soon!
Rock and Stone!
Brain dead take. With loot boxes you can open $100s worth of them and get not a single damn item you like. With the pass you can see what you can earn and decide if you want to spend the money based on that. Loot boxes are literally rigged against the players like casinos are.
for everything bad that Overwatch 2 did, at least it taught me through it's atrocious monetization, to value less cosmetics and value more gameplay.
It's a shame though - I can't overstate how much I *love* the cosmetics in the Overwatch universe. If I could apply Overwatch's style to literally every game, I would. But I'm with you - great gameplay comes first, a respectful approach to monetization comes second, and sweet loot...sadly...comes third.
I'm gonna go play Tears of the Kingdom now. Free loot all day, every day!
im making a game, and im working hard as hell to create a free, no fomo, no BS battle pass like reward system, that rewards players for specific tasks, but doesnt keep the player hooked. ive played too many very very fun games, but gave up, because i was getting bored. the battle pass, while being stupid, still gave me a reason to play, the originally and still fun games. it can be a great design idea, but its used for money making purposes. im changing that for my game.
I wouldn't have a clue where start making a game so I'm a noob really but appreciate you not adding a BP system. A game is worth paying for to support the developer and will never have a problem buying. I support dlc in games and the odd cosmetic just hate BPs they bore most player base in games and make the game feel a chore. I hope the game development goes smoothly and you hit it off dude.
It's funny how both Valve developed and made it popular loot boxes and battle passes.
And how much they get a pass (haha) on all of this stuff and even legions of fanboys defend everything that Valve/Steam does.
Onimusha warlords i liked unlocking stuff through intentional and targeted effort from an actually fun challenge like beating campaign, doing it in under a certain amount of time, not upgrading items, finding all of a secret item, finding a secret weapon, etc allowing a helluva bunch of replayability and discoveries from repeated playthroughs without the need of updates.
Imagine all the storage detcated just to skins you no longer have access to on the of chance that you come across another player wearing that skin
I think that Destiny has the best system. It's the best because you get 3 months worth of story content, activities, and gear to grind to your hearts content. You level up the battlepass (which is ridiculously easy to do might I add) and you just have to play the game as you normally would play, however, you always pay for the battlepass for the content that comes along with it. The battlepass always feels like a bonus
I think how the “battle pass” has been done the best is among us. There cosmic cubes you can pay money for them or the in game currency and you keep it permanently. Not only that each one has its own path for you to choose which cosmetics you want first
Another good thing about Infinites pass is that all passes after the first one give you enough in game currency to get another one. That means apart form the first one, you can get all of the passes for the price of one with no fomo.
I'm still going through season 3's pass while season 4 is happening.
The middle of this analysis reminded of that one Sanjay and Craig episode where they wanted to show off talent through having trophies, but since neither of them ever wanted to put in any effort to actually become good at something and earn a trophy, they just bought some trophies instead, and eventually got into some hot water after they went into this club with people who DID earn their trophies after everyone saw they were shit. This led them to getting kicked out of the league and shunned by their friend (I barely remember the episode and how it ended, forgive me if I'm wrong in anything I said.)
And now Helldivers 2 shows how to properly do battle passes. A totally separate free pass and a smaller premium pass. But, you can earn the premium currency through the free pass and also by just playing the game and you find that currency pretty often. AND no one is competing to get that premium currency in a mission since if all players collect say a total of 100 credits, each player gets 100 credits. Also, the passes never expire so you can grind at your leisure. You can even find the war medals that are used to progress the pass through completing missions in the mission as well to make the pass faster to get through.
I think cosmicubes from among us are kinda similar to the idea of the great bp :D
1. once you've bought it, you can finish it whenever you like, there's no time limits
2. you can choose rewards you want to go to first
3. you can earn rewards via playing any game mode and without strict rules
4. also you can find free alternative to paid cosmicubes if you feel like it
Watching this I'd have thought this was a channel with hundreds of thousands of subscribers.
While I don't like Battle Passes, I like that they replaced something more toxic and insidious in my opinion, loot boxes... just over time we are seeing the concept of battlepass de-evolve into a system to lock players into a grind, which I don't understand.
Why does a developer want to lock a player into a grind with FOMO overbearing on them... these are not one game publishers, these are multiple AAA title studios that want to sell you all their games... by having a business model that sells you one game, forever??? Both Microsoft Gamepass and Activision measures their success on Multiple Active Users metric... locking players into one game lowers that metric, optimally they want multiple users playing multiple games.
that's why Im still playing Dota 1 this 2023
I can't express enough how much battlepasses stress me out, Apex Legends is my favorite live service game, but being a below average player, it takes me much longer to finish the pass than most of my friends. While the challenges help push you out of your comfort zone, I end up playing to finish the pass and the quality of my time spent playing goes down substantially. I stress all season until I finish the pass and then I can play for fun, it leads to burnout, I took a week off playing and am scrambling to catch up now. I had an 11-hour play session a few days ago just to barely make a dent in it and had very little fun. I have no time to play my other games until i'm done the pass, I know I'm playing into their hands but damn i'd much rather have missions to earn reactive skins than selling my soul to a game that doesn't prioritize fixing it's experience ruining bugs. Either way i'll be on tonight lmao
Another game with a batlle pass I want to mention is Limbus Company, unlike these other ones it's single player. It has multiple other mechanics which many would deem as horrid and unforgivable. Each of these systems like the battle pass for example have had what made them annoying in the first place completely removed. Some rewards are limited and will be removed from the pass next season but will still be acquirable by normal gameplay. In the limbus pass you can get various rewards such as XP to level up your units, a special xp to improve their skills, a currency that allows you to get new units, and entire super abilities called E.G.O. There is also a paid pass which just gives more stuff. You can gain battle pass xp (BP) by doing the daily missions which can be easily done through normal gameplay like beating the xp stages and killing enemies. The main way of gaining it though, is through playing the Mirror Dungeons. They are a chain of multiple stages where you have to bring a set amount of units in and they don't heal up between encounters, advancing through floors by beating the boss at the end. I know what you're thinking "oh, the typical grinding stage" but no, there are three things that eliminate any grind. 1: the reward. 2: The time. 3: The fun. The first two tie into one another well as typical MD runs take an hour and give you about 3-4 pass levels of xp out of the total 60. Then there is how fun it is. Every MD run is a rougelike adventure where you traverse randomly generated floors with combat, rest stop, shop and special encounter tiles. The main staple of the dungeons are the E.G.O gifts, relics that grant passive effects to everyone on your team. These can be gained by winning combat randomly, buying them in shops, or choosing the right option on the special encounter tiles. This way every run is different than the last with there being multiple gifts to support various builds. This way its never monotonous or grindy. When you finish a dungeon you can choose to spend some energy to get the rewards or leave empty handed. Many could say "whats the point of doing it then?" anto gived to that I say it's fun enough to just play without getting any rewards. Since seasons last 3-4 months, you can finish 3 dungeons a week and get around 12 or so levels. 3-4 hours out of a 144 hour week to get some bonus goodies. If you go beyond level 60, you will also gain a little bit of currency that you can spend towards getting units you want. This complements the Gacha system so that after playing for enough time, you can just force the game to give you what you want if you aren't lucky. To summarize that system, using a currency you get from completing battles, from the MDs, and weekly server maintenance/bug fixes, you can use it to have a chance of getting another unit. Getting dupes gives you currency which you can spend to forcefully get the unit you want. This works directly with the pass as it eliminates the luck you need in the gacha system to get good units. I know i made a whole wall of text but the limbus Battle Pass system and it's other systems work in an amazing way that feels rewarding. It's not perfect, but it works very well for f2p.
The only game battle pass that I've used and actually kinda like is Apex Legends' battle pass because 1. Yea you have to buy it, but only once; then if you play the game and complete most of the battle pass then you can get the next one free. Plus you get a lot of good rewards instantly when you get the battle pass, so even if you only made it to level 10, you still get some good stuff.
2. Most of the challenges require me to do things I wouldn't normally do like, use a specific type of gun, or play 1 of 3 characters a specific amount of times. It's good to shake things up and try new things that you may realize you actually like. I'm the type of person who normally playes a game only 1 type of way and to have some incentive to play my game differently is nice and helps me experience more of the game I love.
Yes there are some things about every battle pass that stink, but I think Respawn made a not bad battle pass.
That's why i like "mission" or daily goals. I can play around 3 games and have every daily and I didn't have to spend more than maybe an hour and a half at most to get the daily and most times just doing the dailies means if there is a weekly or higher I get it at the same time.
The oddity of battle-passes was that their prelude was Ranked Rewards.
Tiering being the incentive with corrosponding rewards being tied to those Tiers. Players who want those rewards are more often funneled into spending more time trying to gain ranks within a time-period.
Great video
I'd like to mention Crossout's Battle Pass system. They let you level up your season, without purchasing the pass, plus there are free rewards along the way, every 5th level or so. So if you happen to have played enough to level up to the max during the season, you can choose to buy the pass in the last minute, and recieve all rewards at once. No pressure to buy it as soon as it comes out, and it doesn't pressure you to play every day, because you don't have to invest anything.
The only non-preadatory battle pass is in Deep Rock Galactic. You can get everything during the season, or if you don't whatever is in there you didn't get is thrown into a loot pool you can get from just playing the game.
Rock and Stone!
Fortnite doesn’t really have a non-predatory battle pass (but that’s just my opinion)
One game that i can mention that has a good battle pass is splatoon 3. If you missed the seasons you can try to get some of those items through the gacha machine, or in the shops (you only use in game currency so no buying tiers and stuff.) Catalog is free and if you complete the first 1 theres 2 more catalogs you can attempt to complete
Not enough people are talking about this. I always knew these were psychologically manipulative but I was a psych major. Most people aren't so lucky. These games prey on ignorance and insecurity. About the only thing that can be done is to try to inform consumers and try to nudge them towards healthier passes and games.
Word of advice for reading this, if you have to spend money for a chance at anything, particularly if you have to work for that chance, it's probably not worth your money. You should reserve your money for items, goods, and services that you purchase directly (though there's lots of ways microtransactions can also be exploitative but at least you get everything you paid for right away, which is how money is supposed to work).
Brother, when the deep rock performance pass ends, nothing goes away, it just changes the loot pool its in. It goes from pass to random missin loot. Nothing is locked away!
I think the Goldpass from CoC is also relativly good. You don't need to play 100s of hours, anyone can finish it in the proposed month, and for now (until the Skin is the first reward of the pass from next month on), you can buy the Skins a year later with an in-game-currency, that can be gained through playing the game f2p
Hey max, you made mention at around 17:34 "that if battle passes were about retaining the playerbase, it would be free" no better example of that exists besides warframe's nightwave system, its a standard linear battle pass that all players have immediate access to for free.
I think the only Battle Pass I like from any game I've played is the one from Honkai Star Rail. It's so fun to complete and your dailies take like 2 minutes. The rewards are crazy good. I actually LIKE that battle pass. The rest? Nah
@15:00 COD BO cold war actually felt even MORE insidious. Behind the paid battlepass were cash-equivalent points you can only earn through buying the battle pass (free version didn’t have these points), which you could then use to… buy the next battlepass.
Thing is, getting your $10 “back” to spend on the next battlepass meant you weren’t just chained to the game for this season, but for the next season, and the next season… forever.
A good video game may sell itself, but it also sells the next game from that studio or IP. in the last 5 to 10 years it's felt like studio after studio has been cashing out on the goodwill from previous titles by shipping out garbage games, that sell well not on their own merits, but on the merits of the title before it. Then the studio looks at their garbage game with good sales and thinks they can kick out another piece of trash and expect the same returns, then they don't so they cram as many ways to suck money out of the player as they can manage.
You've earned my subscription. Great video. What are your thoughts on battle passes, like those in Genshin Impact, that you can purchase after making some progress? There's a free progression, and if you choose to spend money, you can buy the premium version and receive all the rewards you've missed. So, my idea is to play until I reach a certain point and then consider buying in.
I still have a problem with them, mostly due to FOMO and time-restrictions. To bring up Call of Duty again, every time I play the game I see that I have 44 locked rewards that I could earn if I spent $12 to unlock them. There's actually the number of rewards that displays at the top of every screen in the game, reminding me that those rewards are there to purchase. But 99% of them are kind of garbage, and the ones that aren't will be gone forever if I don't buy the pass.
The easy answer is just...don't buy it. But they've managed to make the game feel worse, by dangling the rewards in front of me after tens of hours of gameplay. It's a brilliant psychological trick to play on people. But it doesn't feel good.
I think what also separates Genshin's BP apart from other time-gated iterations is that reaching max level (50) doesn't require playing for an absurd amount of hours over its duration (6 weeks). And none of the BP exclusive rewards are locked beyond level 30.
It's a fine system as is, but doesn't offer anymore to players who like to grind out all of the missions. I would like there to be smaller amounts of mora, character xp and/or weapon xp passed level 50 and also more non-exclusive *non-Primogem or fate* rewards to earn if you buy the $20 Gnostic Chorus.
Though a new set of 4-star BP weapon options are planned to be added (not replacing the old ones) next update (4.0).
7:26 Nothing about Diablo Immortals design was lazy. It was deliberately, intentionally and meticulously crafted with malice to be as predatory as possible to the consumer to maximize the bottom line. It’s less of a game and more of a casino.
You have articulated my recent thoughts perfectly. AAA gaming is now more of a warning sign than a quality seal to me and I find myself moving to the AA and indie scene more and more. I have a friend who is particularly ignorant and blunt about this topic and drives me fucking crazy that he doesn't see what's happening to videogames right now.