The Sons of God and the Nephilim: Interview with Tim Chaffey
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2023
- In this episode of The Remnant Radio, we'll look into the enigmatic verses of Genesis 6:1-4 and hear from Tim Chaffey on the comprehensive research and analysis presented in his book "Fallen: The Sons of God and the Nephilim. We will be dissecting the debated topics of the unseen realm, angels, and Nephilim directly from Genesis 6. Discover varying perspectives on the "sons of God," unveiling historical and biblical insights.
We'll explore ancient and modern interpretations, assessing the Sethite and Royalty Views, and examining the role of 'elohim' in biblical contexts. Learn about the theological implications of these entities, enriched by insights from early Christian thinkers and ancient texts.
What are the Nephilim? Are they the offspring of angels and humans, or is there another explanation? What do the ‘elohim’ reveal about the complex spiritual hierarchy? Tune in for a deep dive into these mystifying topics, as we navigate through theological, historical, and scriptural landscapes to unveil concealed truths of the unseen realm.
🔍 Is there a connection between angels and the Nephilim?
📜 What does the Bible really say about the sons of God?
🤔 Can we uncover the truth behind these ancient mysteries?
Join us as we explore the Nephilim, the sons of God, and their significance in the Bible. Don't miss this opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of Genesis 6:1-4 and the ancient world.
#remnantradio #nephilim #genesis6 #sonsofgod #angels #angelology #
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Fantastic content as always!
As a new Believer I was burned in a charis-maniac church in Elgin, Illinois. I totally deconstructed my faith shattered. I developed a hatred of GOD the Father and Christians. I studied the bible looking for reasons to rebuke GOD, Satan had me deceived for over thirty years, and to a degree that frightens me to ponder.
Long crazy story short , it was Dr. Heiser who led me back to faith and belief. After listening to his teaching online I saw as if a veil were lifted. I repented and was forgiven.
My bondage to the occult was severed and GOD has been good to me.
I truly love Dr. Heiser and I am confident that one day I will get to know him and thank him.
Maranatha
Wonderful testimony. Bless you, and Dr Heiser.
Yeah I am studying all sorts of eastern religion and new age and zen to understand it better but luckily I am pretty rooted in scripture and I can see where these story tellers try to take peoples faith away they are very seductive about it.
Love it! Dr Heiser will be missed but obviously God said his work was completed in his few short years. I didn't fully deconstruct before Heiser but I was bored. He woke me up. I had read the Bible but without the ancient near east context it didn't mean anything. I didn't see the point of the Old Testament between The Fall and Jesus until Heuser explained it.
Dr Carmen Imes, Dr Sandra Richter, and Dr Tim Mackie are a few other scholars whose work really impacted my understanding of the Bible.
These guys must be tired with all this "unpacking."
Chuck Missler was the first teacher I heard teach about Genesis 6. He was an amazing teacher and is so missed.
Charles "Chuck" Missler passed away May 1st 2018.
He pivoted from the business world to engage
full time in the ministry. He left behind a treasure chest
of bible gold and silver. We'll never have another
one like him for he was in truth one of a kind.
So much of his work is still available for anyone
to enjoy.
Chuck Missler disagrees with the interpretation in this video.
I have listened to some of Chuck Missler’s videos & really enjoyed listening to his point of view.
I said after Dr. Heiser died that his work on these topics and the divine council would be the main standard bearer for the next century. Whenever anyone discuses or writes academic papers or books about Gen6, Deut 32, and Psalm 82 for the rest of this century+ they will need to start with Heiser as the foundation and grow from there. Point in case in this episode. It's like writing about Roman history, you have to start with Gibbon, otherwise what's the point.
I do love Heiser, bless his soul. But he is not the only one, I think Chuck Missler and Gary Wayne is earlier than him. Heiser just got more followers on the mainstream maybe because people are now more opened again to the elohim topic when he started.
God bless Dr. Heiser. Never looked at the bible the same (or the world) because of him.
@@daze4877 Correct, Missler and Wayne and others re-introduced these topics to regular church goers first for sure, but I feel like Heiser brought the academic side of it all into a light for both scholars and the laymen.
@@daze4877yea but heiser was better sourced. He’s has a MA ancient history, and a MA and phd in the Hebrew Bible and Semitic languages. That’s what separates the two
I am not gonna bet on there even being a next next century…. More like decades if I were a betting man.
I had no idea Tim had done this work. I knew him only from AIG. I'm thrilled to know he has added to Heiser's work and will definitely be buying his book. Thanks Tim, great content here!
Would also like to see Remnant Radio do an interview with Gary Wayne, author of a book titled 'The Genesis 6 Conpriracy', with 800 pages, including references.
Me too! Looking forward to Gary Wayne's follow-up book.
Great point. Wayne is a wealth of knowledge
Still working my way through that book, it's huge!
Yeah he is a very fascinating man that book covers a lot of territory.
Yall think about having an interview with LA Marzulli, He has been on this topic for over 20 years.
The Bêne Há Elohím, or "sons of God"as the word of God has its descriptive is an interesting topic, I certainly visited it when I was in theological study, but in today's sociopolitical market, I think they're just simply more productive things for you guys to talk about...
I would love to see you guys tackle Daniel's prophecies and how they correlate with the book of Revelation and what's going on today with the Catholic theocratic organization.
I certainly would tune for that.
Blessings
The panel asks really good questions! This is a great video.
Glad there is still a good solid scriptural source for this topic after Dr Heiser. I’m gonna get Tim’s book. Great interview and I love the references to the practical reasons for this information in our theology. Killing all the Nephilim sells a lot easier than trying to explain how certain groups were worse than others.
I can understand your hurt. Several churches have removed me from ministries I was involved in, giving reasons they later contradicted. Example I offended several teenage girls with what I said to them. This on a day I talked with only one, My denial just had them change it to what the girls thought I said to them, then to what they heard me say, one or two more changes before finally saying I stood so close to them to them I severally invaded their space, after I had said one reason they would not think I was talking to those girls, whomever they were, was the only person close enough to me to think I was talking to her was the one I was speaking to. Months later they used this as a reason for their d Fiscipline of me. They also on that occasion and several other incidences when I tried to find out the reason for the discipline insisted the decision was made by the Elder’s board before the Pastor began his ministry with the church, clearly one of the statements was a lie, if not both. They made twelve such paired statements. To this day, I have heard no reason for their action. Finally I forced a meeting with the Board, to get the reason. I also informed them that It seems like they want me out of the church, listing three options for how I could leave. Go to another church, stop attending church altogether, or commit suicide. Their answer…………….. No answer.
Four months after the board meeting, I said good bye to some friends and left the church, One person who reluctantly agreed to be a witness to what happened at the board meeting insisted I inform the Chairman of the Board of my leaving, I was not planning on doing so. I obeyed him, he was with me when I said good bye to the chairman. He stated the real reason, the big major reason was what I did in that spring. The Pastor began his ministry August 1, the offence to the alleged teen girls was last Sunday of September, April I am informed of the church discipline, last week of June was the board meeting, I left that church late October. You should have seen the Chairman’s face. He stated at the board meeting, as it ended, that any issue of significance was brought forward in the board meeting. The witness knew that nothing was indicated as happening that recently at the board meeting, the Chairman realized he just told a lie to me with my having a witness to the lie. He hurriedly added he told me at the April meeting, which the witness was not at, and was not repeated at the June meeting. His statement at the end of the June meeting was if it was not mentioned at the June meeting it was a very insignificant matter. Further, since that clearly referred to something from March of April of the year, eight or nine months after the pastor began his ministry with the Church, he was stating they lied about the pastor not being involved with our church when the decision was made.
I tell you this to say, I had the option to curse God and leave the Christian Faith, or recognize that like myself the leaders are sinful mortals. I offered them forgiveness, but doubt they received the forgiveness, since they refused to admit they had done anything wrong. We are to forgive those who have wronged us, put the issue in the past, and go on. ‘This can be hard to do, but it must be done.
Your attention to detail is commendable. From the editing to the scripting, it's evident that you strive for excellence in every aspect of your videos
Great conversation! Very interesting!
57:28 is why I came here. Nice that y'all touched on it briefly💯💯
Ive watched 3 times, but need to listen again
Right Response Ministries has a 4 part series interviewing Mr Chaffey. You can find the videos on CZcams.
It is such a Blessing to know others out there we're going down the very same road on what's what😊🙏 God is so Gooooood ❤🙏God Bless You all!!!!
Much respect for Tim Chaffee! Great mind and excellent research!
I heard some Jewish scholars discuss the, let us make man in our image bit in Genesis, and they made a convincing argument that is an internal discussion in the trinity. For example, the Hebrew word for God before that is in the plural form. Plus Moses who wrote most of the first books in the bible did meet Jesus a few times (the messenger of God who is also God), so while he didn’t use the word trinity, he did seem to be aware that the God head is more than a singular being.
It was Yahweh speaking to Yeshua.
@@jeffdelgren2170it's actually a compound synchronization of multiple deities. Noah made a new mankind after the flood. Noah was deified as Khnum, Prometheus and was fused at some point with Emmeduranki who was Enki. Noah was also fused with El at some point but Enlil appears to remain separate and the distant / far away God who appears.
@@paulschuckman6604
Nope. The Sumerian and Akkadian gods are not the same as The Living God who has revealed Himself in a specific way, through the historical person of Jesus Christ.
Noah was not deified. That is forbidden.
Your view is fringe, is not accepted internally and is heresy bordering on blasphemy.
@@nathanielalderson9111after the flood, Noah's descendants repopulated the earth. The tower of Babel happened, tribes of Israelites were driven out of Israel and dispersed to many nations. This would have caused great confusion if their language was changed. And it is not heretical nor bordering on blasphemy to say that ancient people deified their ancestors. Yes, of course, it is forbidden BUT it did happen. The tribe of Dan and Manasseh practiced idolatry. It is speculated that is why they are not included in the twelve tribes listed in the Book of Revelation. And the Irish claim to be descendants of Dan. Their lore refers to deity ancestors and they did believe they were descendants of gods but had a mass conversion to Catholicism. There are obviously many gods (false) and idolatry was obviously common, or God wouldn't have had to send many prophets to convince those people to repent.
@@TheEnigmaticmuse
Your reasoning makes sense.
It's possible people idolised Noah, without Noah being an actual deity.
Case in point from the Children of Israel themselves, worshipping the bronze snake, hence a leader destroying it- or Ummim and Thumim, hence God hiding or removing them.
Man I miss Heiser 😢
I like the interpretation. Man’s view is always interesting. You’re right. It’s fun trying to understand it all.
Great interview
I'm a new viewer and Subscriber from Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Very good video do more thank you very informative 😮🎉😊
Thank you. So interesting.
I believe..It is your own personal relationship with God closer you get to him the more everything becomes more clearer and clearer I don't Preach but I will let u know God loves you He loves all of US🙏 it is not about our works.. yes tell our brothers and sisters and maybe some are called for Ministry but I believe the most important thing out of everything is that God just wants Us close to Him we search for our soulmate all of our lives.. most do lol and I believe in the end God is that soulmate we have been all searching for all along❤🙏🥹God Bless Everyone 🙏💛
I’m just now reading the Bible the first time in my life- I just finished genesis- I’m so upset with myself that I’m just now reading it- I’m glad I found this video it’s making me understand more thanks :)
Please don't.
Read first.
Stand for the Truth.
KJV
Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and ALSO AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
After what? Before and after the marriages of believers and nonbelievers.
The giants were already there!
Who wants to be like the most high?
SATAN.
Now it's tricked people into calling it a Son of God.
Angeles don't marry.
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Angeles are Not the Son's of God.
Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
In Genesis 6? Nope.
In Job 1? Nope.
In Job 38? Nope.
God has never said it!
God punishes man with the flood not Angeles.
Also there are still giants after the flood. So that wasn't the purpose of the flood if it didn't wipe the giants out.
The Son's of God are the believers of God.
Stop angel porn/beastiality.
FYI Mormons believe Satan is the brother of Jesus too.
Nice Job TIM!
Thanks Josh!
Just noticed his Noah Trilogy as I was looking at his books on Amazon. That looks interesting as well.
I really liked the approach here "what does the Bible say" and then "let's compare and contrast with the rest of the Bible and see how it stands up or is refuted"
Hi where can I get more info on Tim and his content besides his book? Does he have social media accounts you can cite? Thx guys. I saw some reel short that they found big bones in the area of where supposedly they found where the ark may have been... referring to that perhaps Noah and them were pretty big themselves. Interestingly a kids book we have of the little golden series of Noah's ark shows them bigger than average as well...
Please have Tim Chaffey on again
SHALOM buenas tardes qué bueno sería que tradujeran estos programas gracias
¡La verdad!
How would you handle Genesis 1 where we are told that every living thing reproduces after its own kind? Angels and mankind seem to be two different kinds?
We know that angels can take the form of man. So using imagination... I'm assuming they have reproductive parts? And we know that Satan has "seed". I dunno, just thinking out loud. It's fascinating though.
Yes, This is the objection I bring up too. Although I think fallen angels (demons) were involved: From what I've been able to gather comparing all these different passages is that they had the cooperation of human men to create biological entities from the human flesh standpoint.
But as God is Spirit; a human can be of their Father God. So can one be "of their father the devil". We see this because we know that the people Jesus said this to and about (Judas Iscariot being one named as "a devil".) were in deed 100% biological human beings. No one has ever claimed Judas or Caiaphas the high priest were human demonic hybrids. Matter of fact; they know where Caiaphas's tomb is. (And yes, assuming his body is in there.)
Also, having not material bodies; angels can't produce cells. Thus there's no way any angel could reproduce with humans. Besides we can deduce from other things in Scripture that angels don't reproduce. We know this because the point of marriage is for reproduction. And the reason for the need for reproduction is because of the fall and death. Jesus makes reference to this "marriage is for the children of this world. (Luke 20:34) But also angels don't marry or are given in marriage (Matthew 22:30)
The other issue the idea of angelic human hybrid runs into is that God is the sole giver of the breath of life and the breath of life is what makes all living things alive. Which of course God is not going to give Satan dominion over the breath of life. So just on that pretense; there's no way these demons produced biological children. That's just impossible.
Although I do understand where some people got the "clerics" / "judges" interpretation of "sons of God" from because the "mighty men of renown" are named in (I think it's Kings) as clerics who opposed Moses. Which fits into "Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." Much of the false prophets are "learned men" who are preachers of false gospels. (So it does fit there too.)
Now what did it mean that these angels "left their first estate" and "lusted after strange flesh". (Human beings obviously aren't like angels.) Some one had once said to me that they thought these demons had done this because they were trying to corrupt the seed of Eve to prevent the birth of the Messiah. (Which does seem like a reasonable hypothesis to me.)
I also suspect that Lucifer fell shortly after the creation of Adam and Eve. They were created in God's image and angels weren't. We know this because Jesus did not take on the nature of angels (Hebrews 2:16) But because God created those in His image as biologically material entities; it's likely Lucifer saw Adam as inferior to himself. This created in God's image being who was given dominion over the earth.
The other caveat here is Lucifer was to be the "covering cherub". Now what was he suppose to cover? The most logical answer to that would be "the face of the deep". He was to contain the "darkness" (evil) within the face of the deep. But he chose not to do so.
Genesis also talks about the Spirit of God entering the dead cosmos which in turn the Hebrew actually indicates that this action is what created water. Water is the foundational element of all life. Yet in Revelation, the "angel" of the bottomless pit is named "Abaddon" The name in Greek means destruction. Although in Exodus and the death of the 1st born; the "angel" stated in that case is explained by God to be God Himself.
So if Lucifer was originally assigned to be the "covering cherub" for the bottomless pit; yet forfeited that by corrupting the earth. I wonder if the "angel" that seals him in the pit is actually the Holy Spirit? That kind of makes sense seeing how the Sprit and the Son are the only ones depicted as coming into this cosmos. Although the Father is also described as being the Creator of the cosmos. The "angel" that tosses Satan into the bottomless pit though could also be a depiction of Christ. It's kind of hard to piece together because many times in Scripture, the personification of God in His wrath is depicted as an "angel".
So yes, there certainly is a very real distinction between man and angel.
YOUD JUST GO BY WHAT GOD SAYS ! THEY LEFT THEIR FORMER HABITATION? NOT HEAVEN ! THEIR BODY ! EVERY TIME ANGELS CAME TO TALK WITH MEN OR WOMEN THEY CAME AS MEN ! DANIEL SAYS THE MAN GABRIEL!! THE 3 ANGELS THAT CAME WITH THE LORD TO ABRAHAM WHEN THEY WENT TO GET LOT ? THE MEN OF SODOM WANTED TO SLEEP WITH THEM ! THE LORD CAME TO ABRAHAM JOSHUA AS A MAN THE PRE INCARNATE LJC ! THE ONLY ANGELS THAT WERE NOT AS MAN WERE THE CHERUBS AN SERAPHIM AND DONT REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE ONES SURROUNDING ELISHAS HOUSE ! THE THE SONS OF GOD CAME INTO THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN ! THERE WAS ON ONE HUMAN SON OF GOD UNTIL THE RESURRECTION!!! ADAM ! THE SETH BULLSHIT IS FROM SATAN THATS ADDING TO SCRIPTURE! IF THIS DOESNT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION U DONT BELIEVE GOD ! YOUR BELIEVING MAN ! I pray it will !
The truth will set us free ❤
Who or what made your guys' thumbnail lol, cool aesthetic!
Combo of the 2nd and 3rd view is ultimately the most accurate understanding. Sons of God are covenant people of High Holy Priesthood Order, in their ancient temples those who took on covenants were ordained to become kings and queens, priests and priestesses, ultimately this was taken from those who make covenant and reduced down to only royal bloodlines. The temple ordinances became royal coronation ceremonies and kings promoted themselves as gods, high priests and kings and they proposed themselves to be the One who would return humanity or their communities into a garden state, dependable on the state to save mankind.
This is absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much.
Matthew 22:30: surprised you didn't address this scripture. Seems a helpful word on informing this subject. Can you address this?
I like the name of your channel. Reminds me of R&R.
Pretty interesting!
I grew up a Mormon and eventually left, id listen to CSN on my commutes and they took a pretty strict view of the Seth line idea yet they would air chuck missler also, I saw him as much better equipped to argue using the bible itself, this stuff opens up some cool historical rabbit holes
Hey Tim - LOVE your All Blacks jersey! Am assuming you’re a fan 😊of 🏉 🇳🇿
Loving the classic All Blacks jersey he’s wearing! Lol from New Zealand
Addressing the mention of Enoch in Jude 14-15:
“Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also saying, ‘Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.’”
Jude did not say, “book” of Enoch; Jude said, “Enoch, the seventh from Adam” and we can all see and understand that from Genesis. Jude did not give any credence to the “Book of Enoch,” neither did Moses. As Moses has written of Enoch, surely he would have mentioned Enoch’s book had there been such a book in his day.
What we do see is the similarity of what Jude had written with what Moses wrote in Deut. 33:2-3. In part, “And He came with ten thousands of saints; from His right hand came a fiery law for them.” I have read that a short section of the Book of Enoch is a Midrash (expositions or interpretations; commentary) of Deut. 33.
Yeshua never mentions Enoch either; however, He brings our attention to the prophet Daniel (Matt 24:15), and Jonah (Matt 12:39-41; 16:4; Lk 11:29-32), and Noah and Lot (Lk 17:26-32) concerning the end times. According to what I have read, the older sections of the Book of Enoch are estimated to date from about 300-200 BC and the latest part is probably to 100 BC. So why did Yeshua not mention the Book of Enoch? Surely, such a book would have been noteworthy, if those writings were true, but Yeshua did not give any credence to it either.
I read that the Book of Enoch was “ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the great-grandfather of Noah.” “Ascribed” does NOT mean Enoch authored the Book of Enoch. Enoch “was taken” 669 years before the flood.
And by whom was the Book of Enoch authored? I have read, "1 Enoch is clearly composite representing numerous periods and writers." “And that the dating of the various sections spans from early pre-Maccabean (i.e. c. 200 BC) to AD 160.” And that "1 Enoch is a collection of Jewish apocalyptic traditions that date from the last three centuries before the common era."
Concerning traditions:
“Beware lest anyone cheat (plunder you, or take you captive) through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” (Col 2:8)
Concerning traditions:
Yeshua said, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the traditions of men, the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.’ And He said to them, ‘All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition… making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
I have read that “modern scholars believe that the Book of Enoch was originally written in either Aramaic or Hebrew, and no Hebrew version is known to have survived.” I have read that “various Aramaic fragments were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as koine Greek and Latin fragments, which are proof that the Book of Enoch was known by Jews and early Near Eastern Christians.”
I have read, “The main reason for Jewish rejection of the book is that it is inconsistent with teachings of the Torah; the book is even heretical. For example, 1 Enoch 40:1-10 mentions the angel Phanuel (who is never mentioned elsewhere in the Scriptures), giving him the power to forgive sin and grant eternal life. Some claim that this refers to Jesus Christ, the Messiah, as "Phanuel" translates to "the Face of God", but Jesus is not an angel, as Phanuel is.”
It is important to note that no fragments of Hebrew version of the Book of Enoch was ever found. The Torah was written and meticulously preserved for us in Hebrew. Paul asked what advantage has the Jew? He answered, “much in every way, chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.” (see Rom 3:1-2)
Stephen, speaking of Moses said he was “the one who received the living oracles to give to us.” (see Acts 7:38)
Psalm 147:19-20 “He declares His word to Jacob, His statues and His judgments to Israel. He has not dealt thus with any nation; and as for His judgments, they have not known them.”
Watching this video was worth it just so I could read your comments. 👍✝🛐
Regarding the question of who the sons of God may be in Genesis 6:2, the apostle Paul's teaching on women prophesying in a corporate setting (Rom 11 vs 5) with their heads covered may be the answer. He says it is, "because of the angels." (Vs 10). This could be a direct reference to Genesis 6:2 to indicate to powers and principalities (sons of God) that they are under the protection of their husbands. ... And also explain why Paul teaches that married women should obey their husbands.
Question, In the beginning, in Genesis, Did God sit on His glorious throne, before the creation of the world and the creation of man?
When I look at church history it seems God raises up someone to remind the church of forgotton truths.
Remnant Radio folk pls do a program on the whole Flat Earth thing ? As there are people quoting the Bible talks about it ?
Tim has great taste in rugby 😁 🇳🇿
Haha I noticed that too 😊 🇳🇿
Hey, Tim, quick question: I've heard you say many times how kind reproduce after kind. A human and a gorilla cannot produce offspring. Doesn't the idea that eloha kind can mate with man kind violate the "after their kind" principle? Does the the phrase "took them wives" in Gen 6:2 indicate genetic engineering in anyway or does it mean took wives to mate with in the typical way reproduction takes place?
QUESTIONS:
Weren't those watchers/fallen angels "spirit beings"?
• Meaning no fleshly bodies nor genitalia?
Did they somehow possess "creator" capacity apart from the Word,
• or did they force the Word to do their bidding?
• Meaning did they make their own flesh bodies with Genitalia?
Weren't their boundaries of "after their own kind" established by the creator?
• How did they violate the established order of "after their own kind" set by God almighty?
• If they did make flesh bodies; how did they change the rules of being “now flesh” with its commensurate death?
Wasn't the commission and command "only" to mankind "to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth" as was consistently reiterated?
• How did spirit beings change that established order or subvert it and change the command of the creator so they could "multiply"?
If they did not create genitalia for reproduction; meaning not have flesh bodies to inseminate;
• did they do "virgin births" before Jesus?
• Do we then say Nephalim came in the "flesh" as virgin births?
• and that the Word/Creator didn't do that then but thousands of years later?
Something that's been bugging me (not really) is where are the lady nephilim? Is it like the Entwives? I've just discovered the podcast and am enjoying it.
Mormon of the Latter-Day Saint variety here, we prefer to be called members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I really enjoyed all your insights.
I do want to clarify, we don't believe Jesus Christ is equal to anyone other than God the Father, who we refer to as our Heavenly Father. We do believe that Heavenly Father wants us to be like him, Christ commanded it in Matthew 5:48. None of us has any confusion about this being anything other than aspirational and that our only hope of fellowship with God is through faith in Jesus Christ and in the power of his atonement. We do believe that God the father will exalt the faithful through his Son. We do believe that the faithful will be come gods in that he wants us to carry his work forward in other worlds he has or will create, and that we may also partake in creation but we in no way consider it possible to become equal to God the Father or to Jesus Christ. We are and forever will be his children, his subjects, entirely dependent upon Jesus Christ for salvation, having zero redeeming value without him.
We do believe that the hosts of heaven helped create this world (upon the order and having been given power of God) according to the words of the Bible.
Despite any differences we have I'm grateful for wonderful disciples of Jesus Christ such as yourself. If nothing else we are united in John 14:6 that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life.
God bless, Merry Christmas and be well!!!
@denningfamily2145 said, "We do believe that the faithful 'WILL BECOME GODS' in that he wants us to carry his work forward in other worlds he has or will create, and that we may also partake in creation but we in no way consider it possible to become equal to God the Father or to Jesus Christ."
~ Genesis 3:4-5; The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and 'YOU WILL BE LIKE GOD', knowing good and evil.”
@denningfamily2145 also said, "We do believe that the hosts of heaven helped create this world (upon the order and having been given power of God) according to the words of the Bible."
~ John1:1-3; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God. 'ALL THINGS CAME INTO BEING THROUGH HIM, and APART FROM HIM 'NOTHING' came into being that has come into being.
~ Colossians 1:16; For 'BY HIM' all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created 'THROUGH HIM' and for Him.
~ Psalm 33:6; By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of His mouth all their host.
~ 2 Corinthians 11:3-4; But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
~ Mark 13:31; (Jesus said), "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."
LDS discredits the Word of God:
~ 1 Nephi 13; Many plain and precious parts have been removed (from the Bible). Questioning did God really say that? Gen 3:1; “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”
Change the words of God: Gen 3-4; “You will not surely die."
False promise of exultation:
~ Gen 3:5; ... your eyes will be opened, and 'YOU WILL BE LIKE GOD',
~ LDS King Follet discourse: "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. ...and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves." Lorenzo Snow: “As man now is, God once was:” "As God now is, man may become.”
LDS doctrine parallels the original sin in the Garden of Eden. Run from this cult and let the true God free you from this work based slavery of a religion.
Been some visions of the past and other strange things. Wasn't sure there was a God but one night in my apartment I looked up and basically asked "who am I?" A being suddenly appeared beside me (think he opened a portal). Glowing, golden breast plate, pale, white hair, eyes shining like stars. He replied "David, you are a son of God", and then disappeared in a flash. Had a demon pop into my head...he looked human except for those big yellow eyes with vertical slits. He quickly realized I could "see" him and he vanished. Didn't feel too good so I asked for assistance and had a quick flash of golden warrior angels diving down through darkness; then I saw his head chopped off by a sword. Never saw him again. Then a Psychic lady said "ya know, you have a lot of apostle energy; be mindful around Easter for traumatic emotions because you were at the crucifixion". Her words but, it's kind of funny, all things considered, that my name is David (beloved), and my middle name is John. Think something is about to happen.
16:10 - Heiser didn't say that, he was mentioning how one of the manuscripts says translates "sons of isreal", but his belief was it's the other manuscripts which alludes to the Heavenly council.
I like how you compare scriptures to prove your point of view. Most of my favorite pastors are opposed to the fallen angel view of the nephalim leaving me with all kinds of unanswered questions. Like why if we're talking about humans and humans did they produce a race so different from humans? One of my pastors even pointed out that we still have 7 foot basketball players. I was thinking yeah but no 9 to 14 foot people anywhere.
Can you do something on eschatology?
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I was reading--I can't remember if it was the book of Enoch?---and it goes into great detail about the Nephilim--the Watchers. And I couldn't help thinking, "you know, this story is so compelling. Someone needs to make a science fiction mini-series on the Nephilim that is part fiction---that would be a be as big a hit as "The Chosen"
Start reading Brian Godawa. Look up which to read first in the Books of the Nephilim. From there it will lead you which book to read next. He has the reader also read from the Watchers series some to fill in gaps. I’m really enjoying them. The books combined with listening to speakers on the subject make a person think differently and wander about things a lot more.
@@bananaanna1373 I just think with everyone into Zombies, a fictional TV series about the Watchers would be great
I thought the same, but then I also think it will take away from the seriousness of this. It will become fictionalised and sensationalised, people will think it's fake Hollywood stuff, like the Rapture flicks.
that is in the first book of Enoch
@@kathyschaefer5768 Yeah, thats what I read. Just seemed like they had their own little world going on from what Enoch described
If, as in the physical order, interspecies relations cannot produce offspring, but all things produce only after their kinds, how can a nephilim-human connection be fruitful, even assuming their bodies were somehow mechanically compatible?
Option 1: Sons of God = Sons of Seth
One view understands the “sons of God” as descendants of Seth. In this interpretation, Seth’s godly descendants were intoxicated by the beauty of women descended from Cain, thus marrying those who’d rejected God and leading to greater wickedness.
The strongest evidence for this position is found in Genesis 4-5, which describe two lines of descent from Adam: one through Cain and the other through Seth. In the Old Testament, God’s covenant people are sometimes referred to as God’s sons (Deut. 14:1; Jer. 3:19), though the precise phrase “sons of God” is never used of them. If the Sethite view is correct, this could explain why God later forbade the Israelites from marrying Canaanite women (Ex. 34:16; Deut. 7:3).
The phrase ‘sons of God’ is clearly used elsewhere of angelic hosts in God’s heavenly court.
Option 2: Sons of God = Fallen Angels
The oldest, and likely the most widely held, interpretation is that the “sons of God” are fallen angels (demons). This was the interpretation most favored in ancient Judaism and the early church (cf. 1 Pet. 3:19-20; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6). The phrase “sons of God” is clearly used elsewhere of angelic hosts in God’s heavenly court (cf. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Moreover, the narrator seems to contrast “man” and “the daughters of man” with the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:1-2.
This position is not without difficulties, however, most substantial of which is the idea of fallen angels having physical relations with women. Scripture gives instances of angels engaging in human activities such as eating (Gen. 18:1-2, 8; 19:1, 5), but surely sexual intercourse is a step beyond! Jesus makes a similar point in Matthew 22:30: “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.”
Which Is Right?
Despite the obvious difficulties of the second interpretation, I believe the evidence points slightly in its favor, mainly because both Peter and Jude seem to have held to it.
In 1 Peter 3:18-22, Peter refers to spirits in prison because they disobeyed in Noah’s day (1 Pet. 3:19-20). Though disputed, the word “spirits” most likely refers to evil spirits (cf. Matt. 8:16; 12:45; Luke 4:36; 10:20; Acts 19:12-16). The connection of these spirits with Noah’s day points strongly to Genesis 6. That these “spirits in prison” are fallen angels is further confirmed by similar passages in 2 Peter and Jude.
In 2 Peter 2:4-10, for example, the apostle cites three Old Testament examples of God’s judgment as a warning to false teachers. First are the fallen angels who are chained and awaiting final judgment (2 Pet. 2:4). The second and third examples are the flood in Noah’s day (2 Pet. 2:5; cf. Gen. 6-8) and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet. 2:6; Gen. 19). Given that the second and third examples not only come from Genesis but are also listed in chronological order, it makes sense to see the first example as also coming from Genesis. (Genesis 6:1-4 comes right before the flood narrative, after all.) Since angels are spiritual beings, Peter’s reference to their being “chained” refers not to physical chains, but rather to a limitation of their activity-presumably to prevent them from indulging in such wickedness again.
Jude, like Peter, provides three Old Testament examples of God’s judgment (Jude 5-7). Unlike Peter, he doesn’t mention the flood and doesn’t place them in chronological order. Still, Jude 6 parallels 2 Peter 2:4 and appears to be an allusion to Genesis 6:1-4. These angels demonstrated sinful pride by abandoning their position of authority and leaving their proper dwelling. They’re now being “kept in eternal chains” until the Day of Judgment. The comparison with the men of Sodom and Gomorrah in Jude 7 (“just as Sodom and Gomorrah . . . likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire”) implies that this was also the angels’ sin in Jude 6.
This is very weird stuff. They argue that "this is what the Bible says", and then they take human language (scripture) that tries to describe another realm (not here thought), that we do not perceive in a physical way, then *pick and choose" what they want to be a physical/literal view, not letting others carry this angelic (Son's of God interpretation) view out to its physical/logical ends. I can't believe they use the virgin birth as a proof text. It's a grab bag mess. Are they Angels or not? if they are, then apparently God created them with testicles, and a hormonal drive turned on by humans. Where are the female angels? Only the guy angels are tempted. God created them with the desire and ability for physiological procreation with humans. It makes no sense. If they are not just pure Angels with literal wings (be consistent), are they "shape-shifters"? Did God give the Angelic beings an independent ability to make a perfect genetic shift ex-nihilo to human procreation with testicles that have sperm genetically better to make giants? If God did this post creation, then why is God blaming anyone? Why would God give the angels balls that they can't use? Notice that Mankind is being judged (text), not Angelic beings, who caused most of the problems. Apparently, they survived the flood with their genes intact. God got so hurt with regret that the Evil offspring survived but only Noah's family was saved through the Ark. It's a mess.
@@dgjesdal Genesis 6:1-4
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the Sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
Genesis 6 is the opening lines to the story of Noah’s flood. It talks about man reproducing upon the face of the earth and “Sons of God” taking women as wives. Their offspring were the Nephilim. But who are these Sons of God who had sex with human women?
In short, the Sons of God are angels called the Watchers.
The first two verses make a point to contrast the essential identities of the Sons of God with daughters of men. The contrast is of “God” with “men.” It doesn’t say “Sons of Seth mating with Daughters of Cain,” it doesn’t say, “Sons of kings mating with daughters of commoners,” or anything like that. It says “Sons of God mating with daughters of men.” The contrast is the heavenly with the earthly. So we are talking about mating that unites spiritual angelic beings with earthly human beings.
Strange and bizarre, yes, I know. Strange - like God separating a huge sea so Israelites could pass through, or bizarre - like a hybrid God-man resurrecting from the dead to save the world.
If anyone wonders whether the phrase Sons of God could be a metaphor for “godly men” or “divine kings,” put that to rest right away. Everywhere the phrase Sons of God is used in the Old Testament, it means angelic beings from around God’s heavenly host. (See Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; Psalm 82:6: 2Kings 22:19-23 - here the phrase is not used, but the concept is).
In fact, there are different names used interchangeably in the Bible for the Sons of God.
They are called the God’s “host of heaven” who surround his throne (1Kings 22:19)
They are called Watchers (Daniel 4:13, 17, 24)
They are called Holy Ones (Daniel 4:13, 17, 24)
They are called angels (Hebrews 2:2; Psalm 148:1-2)
They are called God’s “divine council” (Psalm 82:1)
Sometimes they are called “assembly of the holy ones” (Psalm 89:5)
They are even called “gods” at times (Psalm 82:1, 6; 89:6)
Sometimes, all these terms are used together to make the point (Psalm 89:5-8)
So the Sons of God in Genesis 6 are renegade angels, divine beings from God’s heavenly throne who came to earth and had sex with human women.
Right after these Sons of God mate with humans and the Nephilim are born, we read:
Genesis 6:5-6, 11-14
The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually…Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God… Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
So we see that right after these intermarriages, mankind is thoroughly evil, which is deserving of judgment in itself. But that is not all we see. We also see that all flesh is corrupt and filled with violence.
Notice “corruption” is mentioned three times, making it a very important concept for the writer. (Saying “the earth was corrupt” is not a statement about environmentalism, it is a way of saying “all people on earth.”)
Now if the writer had intended to just say that all mankind was corrupted spiritually he would have used the word for mankind (adam), but he did not. He used the word for flesh (basar) - “all flesh was corrupted” - which distinctly points to the physical body.
So there is a corruption of flesh going on by the angels mating with humans. These angels are evil corrupters.
This corruption is highlighted even more when we see that Noah is described as a “righteous man, blameless in his generation.” Now, yes, Noah walked with God and that gave him a righteousness with God. But the Hebrew word for “blameless” is the same word that everywhere else in the Old Testament is used of the physically unblemished animal for ritual sacrifice. (38 times).
God seemed to be requiring physical perfection in sacrifices that symbolized the obligation of purity for atonement. The writer is making the point that Noah’s flesh, or his genetics, was not corrupted by the tainted genetic “seed” of the Watchers (Seed of the Serpent).
So the Sons of God were mating with human women and giving birth to a corrupted bloodline called the Nephilim. This corruption was most likely these fallen angels’ attempt to defile and desecrate God’s separated creative order.
Since man was created in God’s image, they were seeking to corrupt the image of God. Nothing but capital punishment will do for such a capital crime.
But more than that, I believe they were seeking to pollute the human bloodline in order to stop the coming Messiah. Noah was uncorrupted in his flesh. And guess who came from Noah’s bloodline? Jesus, the Messiah (Luke 3:23-38).
@@dgjesdal Strange and bizarre, yes, I know. Strange - like God separating a huge sea so Israelites could pass through, or bizarre - like a hybrid God-man resurrecting from the dead to save the world
Not bizarre when God does it. It is bizarre when Angels are able to ex-nihilo create testicles to have sex. @@adamguy33
Where does it say, that heavenly Angels are called, "Sons of God"? Where does it say, Angels had or have free will? Where does it say that Angels sinned and fell from grace?
I would like to address what someone else has written, “The phrase ‘sons of God’ is clearly used elsewhere of angelic hosts in God’s heavenly court (cf. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7)”
Many years ago, I wondered, prayed, and pondered Job 1:6 and 2:1 concerning the “sons of God.” I searched for clarity. Back then, Job 38:7 had already been explained. I have previously posted my thoughts on this matter, and now I have additional thoughts I would like to share. As one thing leads to another, I would like to repost my original thoughts as well to keep them flowing in perspective. The additional thoughts have been added, about mid-point and going toward the end.
Job 1:6 “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.”
Let us put this into context and continue with verses 7-8. “And the LORD said to Satan, ‘From where do you come?’ So Satan answered the LORD and said, ‘From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.’ Then the LORD said to Satan, ‘Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?’”
It is very clear that all of this is taking place on earth because it says, “on the earth” twice. No mention at all, not once, of “God’s heavenly court.”
The LORD is also pointing out a comparison, “none like him on the earth.” And what is the point, the subject of this comparison? Attributes of being “blameless and upright, and one who fears God and shuns evil” which is to say the LORD is talking about “the sons of God” who are “blameless and upright, and one who fears God and shuns evil.” Humans, who have the power/authority to become the sons of God because they fear (believe) God and shun evil.
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the power/authority to become the sons of God, to those who believe in His name.” (Jn 1:12)
“That we may be blameless and harmless, sons of God without rebuke in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world.” (Phil 2:15)
In Job 2:1 the same scenario plays out except this time Satan was given power over Job’s stuff but could not lay a hand on Job himself. Satan was able to test Job who was one of the sons of God. No heavenly court and no angelic host mentioned.
Presenting oneself before the LORD is a concept from days of Adam and Eve. “And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden” (Gen 3:8). Why? Because they were “afraid” (vs. 10).
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And being cleansed, we have confidence and may approach God with full assurance.
Concerning “sons of God” in Job 38: 7 “When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”
Putting this verse into context, let’s start with verses 4-6 where the LORD is answering Job. He questions Job and speaks of the foundations of the earth and its measurement, and stretching out the line upon it, and to what the foundations were fastened, and who laid the cornerstone “when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
We see that we are at the beginning, before the flood.
Gen 1:6-7 “And God said, ‘Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.’ And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament, and it was so.”
Gen 7:11b-12 “…the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.”
Decades ago, Carl Baugh, the founder and director of the Creation Evidence Museum explained that the fountains of the great deep broke up and the force was so great that it broke open the windows of heaven, from which came the rain of the firmament. But before the flood, with the waters above the firmament the sons of God (humans) could hear the stars sing. After the flood, after the waters rained down from the firmament, the atmosphere changed, therefore, we no longer hear the stars sing.
We all know that man lived in the flesh for hundreds of years before the flood. So, the earth was filled with men who were more than, or just under, 900 years old, with the exception of Lamech, and of course Enoch (bless his godly heart, taken at 364). It was not like today, where people produced an offspring and die mostly before one hundred. So, there were a lot of sons of God (humans) on earth who begat many sons and daughters during their LONG life span. These are they who shouted for joy when the morning stars sang together as we see in Job 38:7.
Here are additional related thoughts that I did not post previously:
First, I will reiterate, Job 38: 7 “When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”
Focusing on “morning stars sang together,” we know that Scripture interprets Scripture.
Yeshua said, “The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand… The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches…” (Rev 1:20).
To me, this is where angels come into play in the scheme of these conversations. The “morning stars” that sang together in the pre-flood era in Job 38:7 may be angels instead of literal stars as Yeshua interpreted stars to mean angels.
“Angels we have heard on high, sweetly singing o’er the plains,” a sweet song we hear at Christmas time. And as we know, this is from Luke 2:14 who explains, “And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of heavenly host praising God and saying, ‘Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill toward men!’”
Concerning stars in our future, I find other interesting connections.
We know that Isaiah is speaking of Satan in Isaiah 14:12-21, where he is called Lucifer or Day Star, “son of the morning,” not “the son of God.” Here we see the word, “star” again. And since he was cut down to the ground, he speaks of ascending to heaven and exalting his throne above the stars of God, and I don’t think Satan is speaking of balls of fire in the sky as he boasts of being like the Most High. We see a word description in Rev 4 and 5 of what the once “son of the morning” (now Lucifer) is longing for. Some of these things (not the Lamb slain [1Cor 2:7-8], nor the elders, but perhaps the four living creatures, and sounds and colors of heaven, and lamps burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God) he once knew as the “anointed cherub” (Ezek. 28:12-15). And in all his glory he was never called the son of God.
We see in Rev 12 in the second sign, the dragon drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. Again, here we see “stars.”
We know that there is a “prince of the world,” which is what Yeshua called him, and the “prince, the power of the air,” as Paul describes him; and that Satan and his stars (principalities and powers) that he threw to the earth are roaming around the earth and the heavens surrounding the earth (not the third heaven from which they were cast out). Also, Daniel was told of “the prince of the kingdom of Persia” (earth) in Dan 10:13.
I said all that to say the following:
What we see in Matt 24:29-31 is described again, and in greater detail, in Rev 6:12-17 and continuing in all of Rev 7. I saw this back in Nov 2017 as I gathered my thoughts and compiled Scriptures to see for myself the big picture. Paul describes part of this panoramic view in 1Thess 4:14 through 5:11; also, in 1Cor 15:50-58.
Something that I see, which I have not heard anyone else speak on, is the stars that fall to earth in the Matt 24:29 and Rev 6:13. As I contemplated and pondered the thought of literal stars falling to the earth as Rev 6:13 says, “And the stars of heaven fell to the earth,” and as we know that if one star fell to the earth, that would be the end of the earth, I realized that it cannot mean literal stars. I believe these stars that fall to the earth are Satan and the principalities and powers of the air who are thrown to the earth (Rev 12:9, 12), as Yeshua said, “…the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”
I believe that the stars falling to the earth is clearing the way of Satan and the principalities and powers in the air for the greatest Exodus that the earth has ever experienced, as we are “caught up together with them (the gathering of the saints) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
After the wedding in heaven, we come back with Yeshua to the earth, where He judges and makes war (Rev 19), and then to finally celebrate with mortals who survived on the earth after the door was shut because they were not ready, when, at midnight, the cry was heard to go out to meet the Bridegroom (Matt 25), at which time we put on immortality and incorruption (1Cor 15:53) for we shall see Yeshua as He is (1Jn3:2). The mortals who survive back on earth are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb (in Rev 19:9, the invitation is written) which is called a wedding dinner (in Matt) also called a wedding feast, and great supper (in Luke) that takes place on earth as Yeshua has explained these things (Matt 22:1-14 and Lk 14:8-24).
Finally someone who has it right. I never understand why people thought this took place in heaven and would often refer people to Hebrews 1:5 as I thought that clearly showed there is no angel God has called his son but your in depth comment said everything, Great Job
I believe the realm we live in/on is the center of God's creation. The stars are luminaries, just as the Bible says. There is biblical evidence the "wandering stars" are entities, or are at least linked somehow to them.
My only point in this is the "one star falling to earth would be the end of the earth" only works if we believe the lie that we are a tiny ball sinning through space filled with millions of huge balls of matter also doing the same thing.
A deep dive in to Biblical cosmology with help to better understand not only is it possible, it makes perfect sense. When the stars fall to the earth, and the sun and moon go dark "for about ahalf hour", believers are to look up, as their Lord is about to illuminate the sky with his 2nd coming. Non-believers however, will hide from the Lord in fear of His wrath that is to come.
If you haven't seen the Unseen Realm by Dr Michael Heiser , it's worth a watch. He will bring clarity on the Sons of God (Bənē hāʾĔlōhīm) vs us becoming children of God.
@AprilsEternal, Hello, you have put a lot of biblical thought into this. I love when people do not just hear a speaker make a point and then that becomes their theology as well. I have also tried to make sense of Job given Hebrews 1. These are my thoughts that are quite similar to yours.
~ Job 1,2 & 38 are often referred to as proof ‘sons of God’ are angels, let’s break it down.
~ Job 1: 3-5; When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and 'CONSECRATE' them (Job's sons), rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus, Job did continually. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”
(Summary)
~ Job and his sons (Godly men 'sons of God') are 'CONSECRATED', presenting themselves before God with ‘BURNT’ offerings (sin offerings for sanctification, but burnt offerings are complete submission to God). Satan was among them on earth. God asked Satan and he said he was on earth. The next four verses Satan describes Job’s hedge of protection, his blessings and riches etc. Satan has been there with Job.
~ This isn't angels presenting themselves to God in heaven, this is Job on earth, with his sons called ‘sons of God’.
Consecrate: to induct a person into permanent office with a religious rite i.e., to ordain the office of Bishop. To make or declare sacred, to devote irrevocably to the worship of God by a solemn ceremony.
~ This next passage is NOT a historical account of creation but a poetic allegory with much symbolism unless God has the earth supported by a physical foundation and cornerstone. God spoke creation into existence and the earth is free floating in space. Where there is symbolism look for Jesus. Just as Psalm 41:9 is one verse about Jesus in a poetic narrative about David, this verse also refers to Jesus.
~ Job 38:6-7; Or who ‘LAID’ its 'CORNERSTONE'?
'WHEN' the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
~ What is the 'cornerstone' or who is the ‘cornerstone’? JESUS
~ 'WHEN' was the 'cornerstone' laid? AT PENTECOST WHEN THE CHURCH BEGAN.
~ Isaiah 28:16; "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am 'LAYING' in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly ‘CORNERSTONE’ for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed."
~ Zechariah 10:3-4; "For the LORD of hosts has visited His flock, the house of Judah and will make them like His majestic horse in battle. “From them 'WILL COME' the ‘CORNERSTONE’."
~ Psalm 118:22; The stone the builders rejected has become the 'CORNERSTONE';
~ Matthew 21:42; Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the 'CORNERSTONE'; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
~ Mark 12:10; Haven't you read this passage of Scripture: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the 'CORNERSTONE';
~ Luke 20:17; Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the 'CORNERSTONE'?
~ Acts 4:11; Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the 'CORNERSTONE'.
~ Ephesians 2:20; built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief CORNERSTONE'.
~ 1Peter 2:6-7; For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious 'CORNERSTONE', and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the 'CORNERSTONE',”
~ Who are the morning stars? ANGELS
~ Revelation 1:20; “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven ‘STARS ARE ANGELS’ of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."
~ Who are the sons of God shouted for joy? GODLY PEOPLE
A word search in the Bible (NASB) for ‘shout for joy, shouted for joy, shouting for joy’ reveals: 'people' shouting for joy 14 times, 'nature' (hills, meadows trees etc.) 3 times, and 'angels' shouting for joy 0 times (if Job 38 is angels, then that would be angels 1, people 13, nature 3).
Look Up Jesus Coming Soon!
@@larrymoore2571 The amazing thing about Scripture is that it interprets itself. And I love that you have picked up on that amazing fun fact yourself. I loved reading every thing you wrote. My heart and thoughts said over and over again: Yes! Yes! Yes! I agree. Yes, Job and his sons were the sons of God, and I love how you described more of their story - good job! (pun intended)
And I love how you picked up on the CORNERSTONE. I saw that as well, but as I was on a trajectory of making a particular point, it would have been too long and wordy for me to write out every thought that comes to mind, and oh how I love thinking on these things. So, as I read your words, I am OVERJOYED with you and how you so thoughtfully brought it all out into the light. Yeshua being the Cornerstone (theme throughout the Scriptures as you have brilliantly shared) is the cornerstone that spoke heaven and earth into existence from Genesis 1, and verified by John 1:1-3. When a builder builds, he starts with the cornerstone and the cornerstone of creation is Yeshua. So, thank you, my friend and brother.
As you have written “~ 'WHEN' was the 'cornerstone' laid? AT PENTECOST WHEN THE CHURCH BEGAN.” I must say that I have something to add here because although the “church” is being built by Him (Matt 16:18) and He is the Chief Cornerstone of His church (and you and I agree), and we are His living stones and are being built up a spiritual house (1Peter 2:4-5), His church is not all that was created by Yeshua. He is also the builder and maker of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them (see Heb 11:10 and Psalm 146:6); therefore, He is also the Chief Cornerstone of all His creation.
By faith Abraham waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. And there are those who died in faith who confessed they were strangers and pilgrims on earth and they desired a heavenly country. This city with foundations is in that heavenly country (see Heb 11:8-16). And it is in Rev 21:1 through Rev 22:6 that we see the New Jerusalem, descending out of heaven.
Back to Job 38:4 and 6. The Lord laid foundations of the earth and He laid the cornerstone of the earth. Yes, “the earth is free floating in space” but let us remember that He upholds all things by the power of His word, as it says in Heb 1:3. His word is the foundations, His word is the cornerstone. He said, and it was so (Gen 1).
Thank you for sharing your word search in your NASB Bible, it blessed me. Everything you have written blessed me, as I am sure it will bless all who read your words.
Yes! I am looking up! Bless you, my dear friend, my brother.
@@AprilsEternal Thank you, I went with the Pentecost scenario (when) because of the Zechariah verse 'will come the cornerstone', but we are in total agreement of our eternal Savior mighty in power and mighty to save.
blessings to you as well.
Picking up the Silmarillion vibes. I'm starting to see where Tolkien's inspiration was coming from.
Maybe the fallen spirits dwell in arid places since they are disconnected from the “Living Water “ of Christ. They constantly thirst. 🤷♂️ Jesus offered the living water to the woman at the well so she would never thirst again.
Or possibly because water was their form of destruction in the great flood.🤔
God is way more poetic than we are.
D. All Of The Above
To your question, “What do the Elohim reveal about the complex spiritual hierarchy?” and your comment, “to unveil concealed truths of the unseen realm,” I offer my reply:
Yeshua said, “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?” Everything Yeshua spoke about was told in a manner using the physical to explain the spiritual. In other words, Yeshua Himself unveiled truths of the unseen realm.
He said, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh” (physical) “and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” When we are born again as Yeshua explained, we are born of incorruptible seed by the word of God which lives and abides forever, as Peter has written. Yeshua said that we are clean because of the word which He has spoken to us. In other words, the incorruptible seed of which we are born is clean. And because we are born of clean, incorruptible seed, now we are sons of God, as John has written. Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
We are waiting for the adoption of our bodies, as Paul has written; and we know that our bodies are still unclean and corruptible. But when our bodies put on incorruption, we will be like Yeshua, for we shall see Him as He is, as John went on to say.
And here is the “Elohim” of God and man. Yeshua prayed, “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one; I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.”
Yeshua also said, “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever - the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”
To say that this truth of the unseen realm is concealed would be to deny what Yeshua clearly and plainly said. We are one with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, one with “Us” (them), we are one with Elohim.
Yeshua said, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
Yeshua gave Himself for us that He might sanctify and cleanse us with the washing of water by the word. His word is infinite power and infinite purity, and all things were made through Him. He is the Word, and He upholds all things by the word of His power, and born-again sons of God (children of God) are in Him, and one with Him, and He in them.
“And the Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come!’ And let him who hears say, ‘Come!’ And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.”
Yes indeed. Thank you. Also hebrews 1:5 mentions that God never has called the angels his sons.
@@Jen77187 Spot on. Thank you for bringing this to the light.
Speaking of God’s Son having become so much better than the angels, this passage says, “He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels did He ever say, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you?’ And again, ‘I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son?’” (Heb 1:5)
God does not need their help, but he does have a heavenly council we see in the book of Job.
HE WAS MAKING HIMSELF TO GOD !! YOU CAN BE A god !!! Anything can be a god that you put in front of ALMIGHTY GOD !!!!!
I am unsure why this video ignores the words of Jesus in Matthew 22:30 where it states that the angels do not procreate? (Or did I miss it?)
THEY DONT PROCREATE IN HEAVEN !!! THESE ANGELS WERE KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN !! ANGELS COME AS MEN TO EARTH THE MAN GABRIEL! Ect GOD WROTE ALL SCRIPTURE!! GOD TELLS YOU SONS IF GOD ? ONLY ADAM AN ANGELS UNTIL THE RESURRECTION!! Came into the daughters of MEN ?? Why say daughters of men ?? Because they were NOT HUMAN MEN ! How do you get the GIANTS ? DO MORTAL MEN AN WEMAN PRODUCE 13ft to 45 ft plus giants ?? YOU MUST RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF GOD !! IF YOU DONT YOU TURN THE TRUTH INTO A LIE !! THERES MORE PROOF BUT U SHOULD NEED NO MORE IF YOU BELIEVE GOD ?? IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THIS YOUR BELIEVING MAN !! PERIOD!
There’s NO REASON TO PROCREATE IN HEAVEN BECAUSE UR ETERNAL NOT GOING TO DIE OUT !
ONE MORE THING TO BE AWARE OF ?? YOU CANNOT TAKE ONE PASSAGE LIKE THAT AND SAY THAT ? THERES DIFFERENT MEANINGS AN SETTINGS AND THE MAIN THING GOD NEVER CONTRADICTS HIMSELF! JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME TODAY AN TOMORROW AN FOREVER! IF IT SEEMS LIKE A CONTRACTION KEEP SEARCHING ITS NOT !!! GOD MAKES NO ZERO NOTA MISTAKE! Yes HE CHANGES THINGS BUT NOT HIS MIND IT WAS ALL FORE KNOWN BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD WERE MADE ! Different times different things for different peoples an so on ! I HOPE THIS MIGHT HELP YOU !
ONE MORE THING ALL THESE TEACHERS PREACHERS ON TV UTUBE WHATEVER THEIR WRONG A LOT AN NEVER EVER TRUST THEM ! ITS RIGHT THAT YOU QUESTIONED AN SHOULD ! THERES NOT ONE THATS EVER BEEN EVEN CLOSE TO EXPLAINING SCRIPTURE! BUT IF YOU DONT KNOW U ACCEPT SND THATS YOUR TRUTH AS THIS WHOLE WORLD HAS DONE !! GOD SAID ALL ARE DECEIVED?!! BECAUSE THIS VERY REASON THEY TRUST WHAT THEY HEAR AN SEE !! ITS VERY SAD AN ASHAMED!! BUT THEYLL ALL GO TO HELL THAT PUT THEIR TRUST IN THESE MEN LIKE THEIR SPEAKING FOR GOD ? What a joke ! TRUST NO MAN NO NOT ONE !! Only GODS WRITTEN WORD ! BUT THIS IS THE HARDEST THING IT SEEMS ITS IMPOSSIBLE THE IT SEEMS !!
Thank you for an excellent show. This is a subject the Holy Spirit clearly deemed important enough to include in the scriptures from which we can learn much.
I've always been puzzled by the use of the word heaven by the authors of the various books of the Bible, as it seems the word simply means sky, ... the realm in which there is much activity by beings called angels/spirits who look like men, can eat, and wear robes/clothes. They bring messages, have exceptional power. Some are also territorial beings called Princes. They were important enough for Elisha to ask God God that his servanr's eyes should be opened to see the realm in which the host of God's army operated along with Israel's regular army. Paul also wanted us to know, that we dont wrestle against flesh and blood, but we wrestle against various powers in "the sky". The armour of God - the name of Jesus and the gospel - are powerful in this regard. And casting out these invisible beings that demonized individuals was an important part of his ministry.
I pray your guest's book reaches a wide audience.
Unclean spirits, what is considered 'unclean' in the Mosaic law? Things that are dead.
Did the sons of God have the same image/bodily form as the men of the world?
Documentary on CZcams, not mainstream documentary like History Channel cover up, a different one it’s like 2 to 3 hours
What are Luke Skywalker and Frodo Baggins?
48:07 what happened?I encourage y'all to take a look at Nick Redfern book "bloodline of the gods". It's quite an interesting take. For it seems we're all seekers of the truth. God Bless ♥️🙋🏾50:00 that's were we are different at,I'd like to know💯
Another scholarly book to reference the evil spirits coming from the deceased nephilim that Heiser recommended would be: The Origin of Evil Spirits, by Archie T. Wright.
I have questions about this topic that I can't find answers to.
~ Why is God explicit (emphasis 11 times) that all creation reproduces after their own kind in Genesis 1?
~ Why is the Bible silent because no Prophet, Priest, Patriarch, Pharisee, Disciple, Apostle or even Jesus ever mentions angel/women hybrids?
~ Why is the context in Gen. 4&5 ignored in Genesis 6?
~ Why is God's definition of 'sons of God' (Romans 8:14) not applied to Gen. 6? Here it is:
~ Romans 8:14; "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
~ Genesis 6:3 reveals the identity of the 'sons of God" in Genesis 6:2.
~ Genesis 6; (2) the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. (3) Then the LORD said, “My 'Spirit' shall not 'ABIDE' in 'MAN' forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
~ Again, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." 'MAN'!
~ Angels are first mentioned in Genesis 16, the cause of the flood was the wickedness and evil thoughts continually of MAN, and God was grieved in His heart because of 'MAN'.
~ God is perfectly able to create mighty men like Samson, or large men like Goliath (& Tim) for his glory, no angels required.
Q: As in the days of Noah.... I believe we do have several hints of the return of the Nephilim, yes:
1) Nebuchadnezzar's final kingdom was made up of miry clay where "***they*** will combine with one another in the ***seed of men***; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery," Rev 2:22-23. This seems to say that something not men combines with the seed of men.
2) "Behold, I will throw [Jezebel] onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, and I will ***strike her children dead.***" For too many reasons to put in this post, I believe all of Rev 2 and 3 are not only historically accurate but prophetically accurate since they are, after all, in the definitive book of prophecy of the NT. This future Jezebel will likely be a high priestess to Ishtar, a fallen bene elohim and the Whore of Babylon, just like the original Jezebel was a high priestess of "the queen of heaven," who is also Ishtar. All of Ishtar's priestesses had a sort of surrogate sex with the kings of the earth. And even though I definitely don't get all the details, the only times that God has wiped children off the face of the earth, "strike her children dead," has been to wipe out the Nephilim.
3) "Now therefore hear this, you lover of pleasures, who sit securely, who say in your heart, 'I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children': These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; ****the loss of children**** and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments." --Is 47:8-9 speaks of the Whore of Babylon because the parallel passage of Rev 18:7-8 says almost exactly the same thing. Ishtar, bene elohim, the Whore of Babylon, will lose her children.
None of this is definitive, of course, but it definitely makes me think something is up.
Daniel tells us the interpretation, and it's not about Nephilim returning
Thank you, Gentlemen 🌹🌹🌹
The Dan. 2 statue does NOT represent what you think it does. The statue represents the world-ruling empires of man that was prophesied to exist starting with Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom. The feet also do NOT represent a return of nephilim. What you believe is completely irrelevant next to what the Bible shows. The feet being part iron means it is an extension of the Roman Empire, which is represented by the statue's legs.
As Yeshua was walking in the temple, the Jews said to Him, “If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Yeshua explained some things and finally said, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him, and Yeshua asked for which of His works they stone Him. The Jews said it was for “blasphemy, and because You, being a Man make Yourself God.” Yeshua answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods.”?’ If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scriptures cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?” (see John 10:23-36)
Yeshua is referring to Psalm 82:6 which reads, “I said, ‘You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.’” Yeshua explained in the passage of John that the “gods” from Psalm 82:6 are those to whom the word of God came. To whom the word of God came was to Moses and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Prophets and to David and to others who wrote the Psalms, and even others. It is Yeshua, Himself who interpreted this passage in Psalm 82, which is speaking of gods, to mean men. And that word, “gods” in that Psalm is pronounced el-o-heem in Hebrew.
Again, it is Yeshua who is calling men “gods” (el-o-heem).
We are “children of the Most High” because we are born of the Spirit of God, which Yeshua makes clear, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born Spirit is spirit” (Jn 3:6). We are born of incorruptible seed as Peter has written. The Holy Spirit is the only “spirit” who can spiritually come into us as humans and make us a “new creature.” To quote Paul, “Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” (2Cor 5:17)
47:50 Job mentions Rephiam under the water, Sept, says giants under the water, even in Job's day the spirits of giants were thought to roam the earth because their bodies were destroyed by the flood i.e. "disembodied spirits".
Does anyone know what his view is to how there were Nephilim still on earth after the flood?
Heiser would say it could have been a local flood. Also if a worldwide flood the angel man breeding may have continued after
@@trevorb1126I was wondering just today why they are not still doing it. Doesn't Hieser suggest that they came down more than once?
Maybe the Hebrew definition is more prudent.
Nephilim (Hebrew definition: fallen ones),
~ Psalm 53:2-3; “God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all ‘FALLEN AWAY’; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.”
Has he got on a New Zealand All Blacks jersey
One of the main problems with those who take the fallen angels view of Genesis 6 is that they tend to ignore the fact that the original Hebrew word "Nephilim" does not mean "giants." We get "giants" from the Septuagint translation years later. So Tim is either ignorant of this important fact, or he's playing games, or being biased towards a translation that fits his theological viewpoint. So we can't argue over how can humans couples produce giants, and assume only some weird hybrid of humans having sexual relations with fallen angels can produce "giants."
There are plenty of tall people in history that were the product of ordinary humans for us to understand than no angelic influence is needed. Just a genetic defect or other genetic abnormality.
How the heck listen to 1 h when you have 50 ads on it 😡😡😡😡
I own tims book "Fallen". I absolutely love the way tim makes an argument for his positions on things. Using logic and scripture. He has good references as well. Most scholarly book I think I've ever read. He looks kinda weird tho.
Well, with him being 6 foot 9, anyone would think he looks "weird".
“ Ye are gods “ - as in sons of God, you got supreme Elohim-Father, and you got elohims- sons
Elohim is heavenly council, God is at the head, the is a family council, the spirits of pre-mortal man. God sends fore ordained spirits who are born into mortality to do His work. Angels are those beings which will or have lived on this earth. We were spirits in the midst of heaven before our birth, mortality grants us a body and probationary period to apply the atonement and we are resurrected to that glory and order which we were willing to keep in mortality. Thus we have great potential but and ability to keep all of the commandments including to be one with God and become like Him.
Great discussion. I would love to see 1 topic raised that is never addressed though. What about the size of men pre-flood and their possible relation to the Giants post-flood. My understanding is that the giants of Gath were merely the size of men pre-flood when their lifespans were much longer, having the remnant DNA of Noah as the size and years of men were dwindling down. The Hebrew words for the fallen and those who were of the fallen are the same word only differentiated by a mark, which may be a possible reason for misinterpretation of the entire subject. The cedars of Lebanon were approx 36 feet tall. The giants of Gath were 15 - 17 feet tall. They can't be the same. There is also some evidence that Noah and his wife were 15 - 17 feet tall too from the sarcophagus that was found.
Trey Smith talks about this on his videos
Do you honestly believe that Sarcophagus is Noah's? There are at least three tombs that claim to be Noah's, in Lebanon, Turkey & Jordan. There is also a skeleton that could possibly be Noah's & that measures 5 foot 10 inches. Personally I'm not convinced by any of them.
@@johnmichaelson9173 I believe the ark was confirmed on Mt Ararat last week. Noah's vineyard is what, 19 miles from the ark? Who can say things with certainty, it is as much as it isn't at this point.
I think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Noah was 5'10" though.
Jordan and Lebanon can go fly kites together.
@@americanlostinvietnam3721 "Who can say things with certainty" & " the realm of possibility" It's just fantasy, like the legends of King Arthur's Sword & Thors Hammer. Mr & Mrs Noah were 15/17 feet tall, smh.
@@johnmichaelson9173 a giant boat on Ararat just like what was reported, and it's all just fantasy? Chinese expeditions sent to investigate a fantasy? Maybe you just dismiss everything that you personally don't want to be real.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Demons being disembodied spirits of the giants reference can be found in the uncannonized book of Enoch.
As well as Jubilees
I know, that's why it's useless as a truth litmus test.
You ever hear about " doctrine of demons". Don't fall for lies
How did the Nephilim (physically) survive the flood?
Where is that in the Bible? @@12344567ist
The Hebrew definition of Nephilim is 'Fallen Ones', the Greek added Gigantes (giants) to the definition.
There is no mystery here if you accept the Hebrew definition 'fallen ones'.
~ Psalm 53:2-3; “God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all ‘FALLEN AWAY’; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.”
This is also consistent with the remainder of Genesis 6 where 'MAN' is wicked and MAN'S thoughts are evil continually, and God was grieved in His heart for creating MAN.
Angels are not ever mentioned until Genesis 19.
@@larrymoore2571 Thank you for the scripture. I have been looking for that.
Noah did not fall away as the others did.
I stand corrected.
Gen. 6:4 has four main characters:1- Nephilim 2-Sons of God 3-Daughters of men 4-Mighty men of old, men of renown.
What about the sons of Luke Skywalker?
How does Tim Chafey think the giants made it across the Flood?
Yes the real questions being asked from the chat. Is he a multiple incursion guy? Or passed through the female genes on the ark?
I watched a Jon Ponders video where he referenced the water spirits- as in Leviathon- being able to perhaps survive the flood in some way-
The sea does represent chaos scripturally. Perhaps for multiple reasons?
It was interesting to consider- esp. the Leviathon spirit.
They could have gone underground, some may have taken flight ufo’s are nothing new.
There might have been another angelic incursion
Or possibly fallen angel technology was used maybe at Babel Nimrod had big plans…
Today we face transhumanism,,, i wonder where that comes from…
i think that is how they will come back in a old/new way to make man other than
Human which is what GOD created and who Jesus died and resurrected for...
Nepthilim are not human they are other than. And outside GODs plan.
This just keeps getting weirder. Do the spirits have the ability to alter DNA ex-nihilo after the flood? @@dkc8812
I need the question answered then - if God caused the earth to flood bcuz He was trying to cleanse the earth of the Nephilim then why would there be Nephilim afterwards?
I love your All Black Jersey Tim i am from NZ.
There’s Very Potent Biblical Evidence that speaks to this being truth, From Job to Psalms. Sons of God as in Benai Elohim aren’t descendants of Adam.
~ Job 1:5-7; "When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and 'CONSECRATE' them, rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus, Job did continually. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” (Summary)
~ Job and his sons (Godly men 'sons of God') are 'CONSECRATED', presenting themselves before God with ‘BURNT’ offerings (sin offerings for sanctification, but burnt offerings are complete submission to God). Satan was among them on earth. God asked Satan and he said he was on earth. The next four verses Satan describes Job’s hedge of protection, his blessings and riches etc. Satan has been there with Job.
~ This isn't angels presenting themselves to God in heaven, this is Job on earth, with his sons called ‘sons of God’.
Consecrate: to induct a person into permanent office with a religious rite i.e., to ordain the office of Bishop. To make or declare sacred, to devote irrevocably to the worship of God by a solemn ceremony.
~ Israel are the "gods" in Psalm 82. The "gods" are human NOT non-human meaning angels/spirit beings. Israel was unique from the pagan nations that surrounded them, Israel had the law of God, 10 commandments, Prophets and a Levitical priesthood. Since Israel had the law of God, it put Israel in the position of being "gods," because God chose them, Israel was God's chosen people. Asaph is the Author and Psalmist of Psalm 82. Prophets of the Old Testament like Asaph the "word of the Lord" would come to Prophets like Asaph. Prophets were the "Voice" of God. God (Father) would communicate His words through the prophets. Let's look at Strongs Concordance for more reference that Israel are the "gods" of Psalm 82. The name Israel ends with an "El/el" which means of God/god. The word Elohim/Elohim starts with an "el" and Israel ends with an "el". Original Word: אֵל Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Definition: God (El/Elohim, in pl. gods (el) Israel also literally means, “One who struggles with God.” Definition "God strives," another name of Jacob and his descendants Hebrew: Strongs 3478. Yisrael The word “Israel” in Hebrew is spelled ישראל and pronounced “Yisra’el”. It is a combination of two Hebrew words: “Yashar” which means “straight” or “upright”, and “el” which means “God”. Together, “Israel” means “one who struggles with God” or “God contends”. In the Hebrew Bible, Israel was the name given to Jacob after he wrestled with an angel of God (Genesis 32:28). Later, it became the name of the Israelite people and the modern State of Israel.
~ Exodus 4:22 You are to say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: “Israel is my firstborn 'SON'." Jacob is Israel and there would be 12 sons born to Jacob, which make up the 12 tribes of Israel. When a person reads Psalm 82:6 when it mentions "sons" it is referring to the 12 tribes of Israel in the physical world.
There is only one bible verse where God defines the 'sons of God':
Genesis 6:3 reveals who the 'sons of God' are in Genesis 6:2.
~ Romans 8:14; "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."
~ Genesis 6:2-3; ... the ‘sons of God’ saw that the ‘daughters of men’ were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. ‘Then’ the LORD said, “My ‘Spirit’ shall not ‘ABIDE’ with ‘MAN’ forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless, his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (ESV)
Why does God immediately proclaim that He is removing His ‘Spirit’ from ‘MAN’, Was God’s Spirit ‘abiding’ with ‘MAN’ then? Again, “those being led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.” Angels? No! MAN!!!
@@larrymoore2571 If You Choose to Keep Deceiving Yourself That’s fine, Don’t think for one second I’m concerned, this interpretation opens and clarifies a whole lot of other verses, that confused scholars for a long time, not to mention the Jewish Tradition that interprets it as Sons of God/Spiritual beings
Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest manuscript we have for Deut 32:8 When El Divided the nations according to the Sons of God. Israel didn’t exist at Babel, Abraham wasn’t Called Yet.
God is a Supernatural being, there two realms he operates in, Ours and the spiritual
Christ came to Dismantle the Powers, what powers? Just human Govt Authority? Thrones, Dominions are Purely human?
So Israel a Nation, that didn’t exist at the time of Job, Watched God Create the Universe? What are YOU Talking about?
Israelites celebrated when God made the Foundations of the Earth? Larry you’re doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics
@@nonainai I think that you're missing the crux of the point that I am making. People that have a covenant relationship with God are 'sons of God' (Romans 8:14). Job sanctifying his sons by sacrifices to God before Israel was a nation does not belie the fact that they are in a covenant relationship with God (sons of God).
~ Genesis 8:20; Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Noah had a covenant relationship with God before Israel was a nation. He was a son of God.
The 'sons of God' in Job 38 (bene Elohim) are not the same as in Job 1 & 2 (bene Ha-Elohim). If you are including these two distinct versions as the same, then why not 'sons of the Lord God' (bene Yehovah Elohim) in Deuteronomy 1:14? Be careful of pagan writings that attempt to interject Greco Roman mythology into the Bible.
Carefully read Genesis 1, all creation reproduces after their own kind. Angels are ALL immortal spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14), and mankind are all mortal flesh... vastly different. Whatever distortion and mental gymnastics people use will not change these facts.
God Bless
Isn’t elohim plural , el being singular
👊✌️
OMG, Mike went to be with Jesus!!
You're mistaken about the demons. They aren't fallen angels. Scripture says the spirits Jesus cast out are "unclean spirits". In Hebrew unclean refers to "inappropriately mixed" which refers to the hybrid nature of the Nephilim spirits. If they were fallen angels they wouldn't be called unclean spirits. No angels are called unclean spirits and every time in both Old and New Testaments it's clear that unclean means mixed inappropriately. This is where Heiser got the clarity - he didn't just make it up from his own opinion as your guest claimed. He just hadn't researched deep enough into Heiser's material to know. This is also confirmed when Jesus casts out any demons. Why would fallen angels go into a persons body in the hundreds or thousands? Nephilim spirits seek re-embodiment. They are wandering spirits and this is made clear in Enoch and Jubilees.
Does anyone else find it strange how people derive all this information about nephalim from like one frase in the bible?
Check out the story of skeletons found in Lovelock caves back in the 1800s.