Why Art Matters
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Friends, why is art important? An uptick in vandalism against famous pieces of art, calling to mind outbreaks of iconoclasm throughout history, has raised questions about art’s value and purpose. On today’s “Word on Fire Show,” I discuss with Brandon Vogt why art matters.
A listener asks, is God's true nature love or truth? What's the interplay between those two?
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As a poor-ish person (poor-ish because I live in the U.S., and have a roof over my head), I’ve always appreciated the beautiful. Especially when it comes to cathedrals and churches, because I could not otherwise, as a poor person, enjoy such beauty. To be able to enter a beautiful cathedral without cost, to sit and take in the beauty, there is such value in that. I leave grateful rather than resentful.
We're rich as Croesus here in the US, by international stds. All of us. Even homeless. No one starves in the US. Homeless have all kind of access to tax funded programs of one kind and another. Privately funded programs also. A significant homeless fraction are homeless because they want to be.
@chelsiecasey I had a similar thought to my Cathedral in Canada where my husband & I attend mass. This past Sunday funny enough is when it struck me of how fortunate I am to have such an incredibly beautiful place to come to every week ; especially here in Canada where beautiful architecture has been largely ignored. I realized how much us Catholics take our beautiful spiritual homes for granted, especially those of us brought up coming to church. There really aren’t other such spaces of beauty for non-Catholics to go to at least here. Truly a blessing to be surrounded by such beauty so often
Wealth is not what we have in investments or in the bank but the rich faith of the Gospel we contain in these earthen vessels of clay, our bodies.
Thank you, Bishop Barron!
What a profound statement..
Through the visibility of Christ's humanity we can see the invisibility beauty of God.
"When billions are suffering, then what use is art?" Well as a guy who went through a major existential crisis during the pandemic, music was literally the only beauty I could see. It might have literally been the only thing that kept me alive during that time. The use of art is crucial to aid and heal suffering. I could not disagree with that guy more.
These people dont have good intentions in their hearts. Everything they do is for show, its a performance. Theres a passage in the bible that really shows this kind of thing. Its when Jesus has been anointed by the immoral woman and Judas(of all people)starts to complain that the cost of the jar and oil could've fed the poor..........on the surface it seems like he's making sense and he's concerned about the poor, but in truth he cared nothing for the needy, the bible says that he regularly skimmed off money for himself.
Right! Art is precisely for the times we suffer. What a poor man who can’t understand that.
I agree! Art helps each individual in its own way, I need music and visual art as well as dance, they help me to understand things better, some people need visual aid to back up words in books as well. Back in World War, art was used as a recovery tool for the people to heal from the pain of war. Movies help many of my friends learn history better as well as the Bible.
I have grown up poor and am still for all intents and purposes poor today, I gather most of the joy in my life from literature, film, religion and various other art forms. These protestors don’t understand the poor.
I am 87 and I have always been considered “poor” but something that’s beautiful as a picture, statue,landscape etc. brings joy to my heart, it brings happiness to my life. Don’t take that away.
I have volunteered with Protestants and some do appreciate art and the poor. My general rule of thumb is to avoid sweeping generalisations. Blessings!
@@MM22272 Where did I mention Protestants? I said protestors hahah
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Bishop Barron, you are a blessing to us all. You certainly understand the essence, the vulnerability of our humanity. As an artist, I feel truly blessed. My ability to translate what I see is a gift that I never take for granted. Thank you for your every word.
Thank you for this intelligent program dear Bishop Barron and Mr Vogt. Art is a fundamental part of our humanity and a magnificent aid to understand our faith
Thank you, father. It is so beautiful and moving to see how the holy spirit continually transforms every part of your being. You are such a beautiful instrument in God's symphony. And what a bright joyous and beautiful song it is! Harmonious, ethereal, pure joy.
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preach it loud, amen. We deeply need the good, the true and the beautiful more than ever in this ugly world!
Thank you Bishop Barron. God bless you always 🕊️✝️🙏❤️
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When there is nothing left beauty, truth, and goodness is our refuge.
Wow, how insightful to identify the statement by the woman who glued herself to the art as puritanical, apocalyptic. Spot on, as usual Bishop Barron. Thank you (both) for your great work. which is inspiring me more than you can know.
Movie theatres 100 years ago were built like sumptuous palaces. It provided the attendees a sense a fantasy as did the movie. It took people out of the drab homes and gave them, for just a few moments, a sense that they were worthy that they can come into a palace and be welcome.
Great questions and quotes, Brandon. I love your explanations, Bishop Barron. Thank you both. God bless you.
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God bless Bishop Barron and Word on Fire ministries 🙏❤️✝️
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In most of the cases cited the art was not destroyed (the paintings were protected by glass). Just an interesting nuance that was not addressed.
What a relief :)
The three transcendentals are deeply egalitarian, they provide everyone with a route to deep joy. I would go so far as to say there can be no deep joy in a person’s life without a connection to the transcendental. They are like beacons of the divine.
I have met many people with materially very good lives but no deep joy. Instead being preoccupied with status and the next hedonistic kick, which tends to lead to attachement and abuse.
The problem with some activists, like the ones mentioned in the discussion, is they are so absorbed by the material world that the transcendental cannot reach them. Unsurprisingly, they don’t see the value of the transcendental.
Well said! I totally agree.
You are always so succinct and articulate-it's a joy to listen. I can't understand how destroying art helps the environment or feeds to hungry. I am concerned about those issues. But I do understand how beauty raises our spirit and calls us to God. In fall of 2019, I planted about 1200 tulips and daffodils in my yard. The blooms brought joy to my neighbors during the first few months of Covid restrictions. We hungry for beauty.
Thank you Bishop Barron for this topic and talk, as an art lover, I first learn that God has helped me in life which is through art in many ways, I draw, write and participated in many kinds of art, I enjoyed them all as well and the toughest thing I had to do during art classes is to create a good art piece or a story, going through this struggle made me realize many famous art and artists all take inspiration from God's creation, we draw and write what we hear and see, what is unknown to us we cannot interpret on paper, song or a performance. Going through the struggle helped me to have a deeper understanding on how almighty and wonderful our God is, if I find a really a good art piece I admire the creator of it because it's such a well-thought out art piece, and I go through the wondering process in awe of how a human can come up with such a detailed and well thought out plot in a story, or a beautiful song piece as well as a beautifully drawn out artwork. It all helped me to see God in even more awe, that He created all of us humanity, heaven and earth, the functions of science in this world, nature, sounds, He lets us artists takes His creation as a reference in our own art pieces. Art has helped me to appreciate God even more and grow a closer relationship as well, I see Him in His creations daily and its such a gift.
This wonderful man is so educated!
A great commentary on the importance of art. I would appreciate the good bishop's explanation of the connection of art and symbolism, "Jesus as an icon of God", and the the Eucharist as the ultimate "true, good, and beautiful" connection to Jesus.
Bishop Barron may God Bless you as much as He has Blessed us with you!
Because it helps direct my heart to heaven and opens the way to the Beatific Vision.
*"Art is the signature of man."*
- G. K. Chesterton
Art as it is described in this video, is what in economics is called a public good. What is nice about that notion is that once the art is produced no one can be excluded from appretiating it, and one person's appreciation of the art does not take away anything from another person's appreciation of the same work of art. It does not matter whether you are rich or poor, or just an average Joe, the work of art will be equally available to everyone. In the end the protesters are more concerned about their protest (virtue signaling) than the poor, or as archbishop Fulton Sheen noticed, we are often concernend about social justice as a substitute for our own moral responsibilities.
Thank you Bishop Barron to hear for Art Matter!😍🙏
cinema lovers may remember a film called The Train. Reference John Frankenheimer. The story is set in the waning days of World War II in occupied France. The allies are marching towards Paris. A german officer searches the city for art which the Germans would sell to continue the war. The French resistance is determined to keep the art in France. A resistance group, led by Burt Lancaster, is of two minds. why should his group risk their lives for all that stuff? The group decides that they will prevent the Germans stealing the art to help end the war. Over the course of the film ordinary Frenchmen join in the effort. The telling scene is when the train is attacked by the resistance. the freight cars are broken open and the shipping crates tumble out. The director then cuts between shots of the crates and the bodies of the slain fighters. I've always thought the director cut to show the audience first dead frenchmen (Seurat, Van Gogh, Degas) then the images of the dead resistance fighters (dead french men alongside works of art and they
themselves are works of art. one of the resistance fighters reflects he had never seen these paintings before and maybe they should.
Love listening to them. I feel like I’m a very smart person. 🤩♾️🛐
The fact that you listen to them makes you more than smart. It takes more than just intelligence to listen to them, it takes sensitivity. In our society that is something.
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Excellent thoughts. Thank you for the Good, the Truth and the Beautiful.
Our Father, open our eyes to the trascendentales, let us See. Amen
La belleza es un tesoro para la humanidad. Destruirla nos empobrece a todos
Thanks for sharing. My Bible studies instructor had a different take on the statue destruction/vandalism issue. I agree more with Bishop Barron
My goal is to bring God into what has traditionally been "secular arts" in complex and ethereal music. Jesus smuggle into a crowd that otherwise may not believe in God but can conceive of his beauty.
"The capacity to appreciate the beautiful and to produce the truly beautiful is unique to human beings because it's tied to intellection." *- Bishop Robert Barron*
Listened to this three times so far…As an art fan would love more videos like this and the connection between art/beauty and God. Thanks!
Biggest donator in history to Church of Saint Alexander Nevsky in Bulgaria was man called Dobri Dobrev. He lived in deep, deep poverty but he collected tens of thousands of euros and donated them secretly to Church so that God could be glorified in the beauty of that specific Church building. Greetings to all the people of good will, in this period of waiting Our Lords coming!🌼
To be fair none of those protestors actually 'destroyed' any art works and damage has been limited in most cases. I don't agree with this kind of protest and I think it does their cause more harm than good, but the comparison with iconoclasm is stretching it a bit. But some good points from Bishop Barron as always.
Learning about the process of figure painting has been so helpful in assisting me to see the humanity of my brothers and sisters.
Thank you Bishop Barron and Brandon, i love listening to both of you on Word on Fire show. GOD bless you both. ➕ ❤
An awesome discussion. I am not always 100% with Bishop Barron but this was an excellent discussion. Keeps me tuning in. Also enjoying his new book, " The Holy Hour".
Beautiful
I am lutheran and I wish our churches were as beautiful as the catholic ones, I think the experience of the catholic mass is more intense also
Thank you! 💗
Thank you Bishop Barron. I'm Catholic and feel that the discussion of art and iconoclasm could perhaps also be extended to include our national treasures like the U. S. Capitol Building (an embodiment of art and of democracy; art as mentioned being the signature of the rational man--wholeness, harmony and radiance made visible, inspired by God.
Well said ❤
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Check you blood pressure, please.
In all well-meaning - that muscle tic around the right eye could be related to a high BP.
Thank you for your ministry, Bishop Barron, and God Bless.
Awesomely done Guys Ty Bishop🕊🙏🏼♥️ Always a pleasure GBUG & protect you & Happy Holidays Merry Christmas to all🕊🙏🏼👏👏👏♥️♥️♥️✌️🦋
Splendeur Céleste! Icon of the invisible God.
I think Art is a connection to the Divine.
Sacred works of art are prayers in the splendour of form, in stone, wood, edifices ...s
As far as I know the protesters take great care to not do anything that could actually damage the art. As an artist, I appreciate that. Their actions are purely symbolic expressions of desperation in an attempt to draw attention to rational scientific research about the climate crisis that is being ignored. As a Catholic I look forward to the end of the world. But I also sympathize with people who are trying to save the greatest art of all created by the greatest artist of all.
I hear you, but in terms of making a political statement, it's a counter-productive strategy. The attention derived wouldn't cause individuals to ask about the data, it's just plain confusing. It would be like protesting energy usage by busting into people's homes and breaking their thermostats.
Lol, I’ll say! Does throwing tomato soup on a Van Gogh make you more or less sympathetic to that cause? The answer is less for probably 99% of the public including erstwhile allies on the issue of environmental stewardship.
Christ made it abundantly clear. He was here to feed the flock. Beauty is God's gift.
Well, if Bishy B accuses you of sophomoric reductionism, you have been summarily reduced.💥
Seriously - and as one who who took _many_ college courses, but who quit only one, ever (philosophy,) yet also as one who constructs long, compound sentences with interjectory dashes - in our modern world this dude equips us with a conceptual framework and vocabulary to address head-on the societal dysfunction that we would otherwise slap down as "damned stupidity."
I still don't cotton to philosophy, and I still don't know what the he** "existential phenomenology" means, but if Bishy B makes such heady conversations savory.
_Lapidary_ as an adjective?! Truly uncommon.
p.s. "Bishy B" is an updated term used by some young child for a certain television personality many decades ago: _Bishy Sheen._
Though I share Bishop Barrons thoughts, you should be true about the incidents mentioned in the beginning. All of those acts did not damage the art works and they were not even intended to do so. So please take a closer look next time. It was about attention for an important topic. Maybe not a good way, but it was not about destroying art. The people who did this chose works that where perfectly protected against what they did.
I liked former Greenpeace's founder Patrick Moore's observation that these are people who can't handle death and believe life is about them. Nature like life is impermanent. We burn dead plant life for fuel. Art gives us a window to the psychology of people of the past. One great painter who has been spared these iconclastic attack has been an Indigenous-Canadian painter by the name of Norval Morrisseau who died more or less penniless like Van Gough and made art from a place of deep surffering but his like Van Gough were transcendental.
“I believe order is better than chaos, creation better than destruction. I prefer gentleness to violence, forgiveness to vendetta. On the whole I think that knowledge is preferable to ignorance, and I am sure that human sympathy is more valuable than ideology. I believe that in spite of the recent triumphs of science, men haven't changed much in the last two thousand years; and in consequence we must try to learn from history.”
Kenneth Clark
If you check out a BBC news report from 14th October it advises that the Van Gogh Sunflowers painting was actually protected by glass and that the frame was just slightly damaged
The answer to the listener's question is a piece of art optima forma, because it's the union of the intellect with God.
Great title! ❤️🔥
Theses 50 and 51, of Martin Luther:
"Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the indulgence preachers, he would rather that the basilica of St. Peter were burned to ashes than built up with the skin, flesh, and bones of his sheep."
"Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money. "
Art is proof of human expression and thought. Good art is perceived through a perceptual shift.
Where can a layperson read more about this idea of integritas, consonantia, and claritas? Has Bishop Barron written on these topics, or do the WoF folks have recommendations for those who want to better understand this Catholic view of art?
Certainly isn't about wanting to destroy beauty, these people themselves probably have visited and appreciated things of beauty no matter their education, beauty is beauty, and we all know it when we see it ,the answer is far more difficult to discern and moral outrage is not it.
Historical Context.
Has anyone read Will Durant’s , Caesar and Christ ?
Let's Say that He is.
In Lincoln, NE one of the Dr. Father's that you taught is doing this very thing, through carefully reforming the structure of one of the oldest churches there. It's good that he and the team that the priests who live in the rectory next to it care a lot about low income housing and they also care a lot about the beauty of our downtown neighborhood.
The Jassion of Jesus 3.9:00,Saturday December 15.2022
The want to destroy religious art reflects a disrespect for God. God is to be worshiped in beauty and they should be advised that God also DEMANDS worship. The art of the Cathedrals and churches are worship just like setting up a Christmas Tree in the home is a form of worship that Jesus Birthday is being celebrated.
Art, then architecture, was the beginning of an elite church that had to sustain wealth
❤️
This is Criest Danieljhr Vittorio Schrieber.I Jose an intellectual,inquiry?Having Studied Theology of Light at The Criest and King's Seminary, duration an year.Graduated with High Honors/Now is God Dead?
The lack of beauty in our modern (particularly American) man-made environment has always seemed like a symptom of internalized Marxism to me - we're surrounded by brutalist, strictly pragmatic architecture because people have implicitly accepted this idea that beauty is "bourgeois" or a luxury for the rich which takes something away from everyone else. We could have been building cathedrals and surrounding ourselves with meaningful art for the past 100 years like we were before that, the only thing stopping us is some kind of dysfunctional cultural belief. Art and beauty is what makes life in the world bearable. Attacking art in the name of politics is everything wrong with the radical fringe left at this point. I can't imagine anything more backwards.
The background is a bit distracting from the message. Sorry 😔. Picasso painted the bombing of Guernica which is a searing account in defence of the defenceless.
Not too mention the people saying that we should sell our most ornate cathedrals and art work and give that money to feed the hungry don't realize that money will eventually run out. Instead have the tourists come to see them, one way or another have the tourists pay either charged or donations and you have money generated continually to feed poor.
This is actually why I don't like selling my art. For the pithy money I'd rather keep my art.
Hi Brandon
Just a quick question do you know when Padre Pio 2022 is releasing. ? Almost 1.9 million watched the interview of Bishop Barron of Shia LaBeouf on Word on Fire . Please update if you have any info . Thank you n God bless . We been waiting to watch this either online or buy it …!
Anybody here an aspiring filmmaker? I'm an aspiring screenwriter/big cinephile but don't have any Christian friends with the same aspirations. It really discourages me.
This sounds like you are a pioneer of Christian filmmaking.
@@feurigerStern I don't know about that 😔
pureflix maybe?
The person who said that the poor need beauty as much as they need food and drink has never been close to starvation with no food in sight.
Beauty is a reflection of our creator and is an aspiration to reflect and honor the creativity. Destroying that is destroying ourselves. If we destroy the bond to our creator we are left on our own and there, we will surely all starve.
@@danielfallon8719 I appreciate art in all forms but I can live without art if I have to but I can't live without food and drink. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
Dear Bishop, I've worked with prisoners, the poor, the destitute, palliative care patients, and pious souls. Rarely have any of them expressed any high regard, spiritual appreciation for, or much of any direct connection from art that is not explicitly depicting anything divine.
I even remember seeing a very sublime, subtle, and beautiful, portrait of the BVM and Christ child that looked, however, like it could be any woman at all. So, many would evidently disagree with your assertion, notwithstanding the likelihood that some, like you, have greater spiritual acuity and sensitive intuitions that apprehend such spiritual phenomena. Blessings!
Hi friends! Thank you Father, This is a worry Yes there has been a violent act on the building of GOD called the temple of GOD where art from GOD has been destroyed! very disrespectful The LORD comes as a corner-stone at the twelve apostles in Australia, we need to stand up for the Church would you guys able to help with raising this issue and start a campaign or something.
Thank you for reading my message.
God bless you all. PETER TRAN
The poor invested much of their personal wealth in their parish churches because they were the central point around which the community and their lives were built.
I've watched many of Bishop Barron's videos and while I'm agnostic, I have come to respect him and what he has to say. I heard something today that I never heard today. I heard him referred to as Excellency. I don't understand that. Is that the church's way of telling the average parishioner that a Bishop if far superior to them?
It's an honorific title used to refer to bishops. In other jurisdictions it is "Your Worship" for bishops, Your Grace for Archbishops, and Your Eminence for Cardinals
I think Brandon uses it as an expression of love and respect.
One more time…
Fundamental . It doesn’t belong to them. It’s not theirs.
What does belong to man?
Amar somossa english eto buhi na sotty apnader kotha miss kori....ja bujhi tatey onek valo lage...
Ye Fuentes and Milo are on the right side of history.
Striving with sin and pride as their guide. Maybe not as much Fuentes. But still, not moral absolutists by any stretch.
At least Fuentes embellishes hate. Totally unChristian.
Bruh, nah.
How do you collect the questions?
What hurts me is that it was Van Gogh... Poor beautiful Van Gogh.
Van Gogh was so prolific that there is always a painting or picture you haven't seen, and his proportions are always right. Fantastic artist. But to be honest his Sunflowers is probably my least favourite, haha. But still cool.
Animals don't have to draw art. Animals are the art drawn by God. Animals are perfection. They do exactly as God wills.
Jercieved or in Sjiritual Essence?
The art destruction is sickening because it can’t be replaced… but the recent rash of infrastructure destruction is also sickening because it instantly destroys peoples livelihoods, it takes years to refinance (that money could go to some other need) and rebuild and in places like Seattle, and LA, the city may never come back to its former self. Art,infrastructure, they are both crimes against humanity… and the criminals (that is what they are) should maybe be put to work on the old fashioned work gangs for a few decades… that would stop most of it. ♥️✝️
So let's keep in mind that Van Gogh's work was not damaged. These protesters got our eyes on an issue, but did not destroy any works of art.
But I agree that the act of transgression is completely misplaced, and will not have the desired result.
This wasn’t mentioned but the activists targeted paintings behind glass to limit damage.
I think museums need to increase security and bag checks. Especially in London which is where a lot of demonstrations take place.
I'm an artist myself and do not think that I could ever bring myself to glue myself to anyone else's, especially to great art. But perhaps you can help me with some thoughts which sympathise a bit more with Just Stop Oil protesters... I have been taught that in the Irish famine, the starving people who stole food from the barns of their English overlords in order to stay alive were told by their priests that they had committed no sin. Were their actions transgressive? Is it possible that the Just Stop Oil people have intuitively caught something of that same sense? Or might they be saying: if you destroy God's art (real sunflowers) you are ultimately destroying human art? And another question... Is there a qualitative difference between the different causes which constitute 'the good'? If there is, and if the destruction of the environment is in truth as universal in effect and apocalyptic in nature as scientists forecast, then would that pre-eminence justify the protestors actions? Given the time-frame we are told is necessary for climate-change reversal, does urgency play any part in the argument? Finally, are there any parallels between the words and actions of the Prophets with those of these protestors? If there are, could my discomfort with their behaviour be resistance to the Spirit of God? ...Forgive me if my questions seem crude - I'm just trying to think through this rather perplexing situation.
I don’t like seeing people attack works of art, but let’s recognize that the environmental activists you named didn’t destroy the art you referenced. They were behind protected glass, which the protestors knew before hand.
I’d like to see an episode of this series on climate change. Seems like an important moral issue which you haven’t covered yet.
The Actual Crucifixion A.D.O.
Destroying art because it is somehow offensive to those who are poor and suffering is rather ironic, as many of the artists who created these works were poor and suffering - Vincent Van Gogh comes to mind as one example. Not only are these attacks anti-humanism and anti-God, as this wise priest said, but I also think they come from a place of total ignorance of history, art, and a wider human context. This generation that attacks these works of art only know the present, and anything and anyone before now is irrelevant.
The Church teaches that all life (vegetable, animal and human) has a soul. It is the soul that gives life. However there is an infinite difference between the soul of an animal (I will disregard the vegetable soul) and the soul of a human. The animal soul given by God has no independent activities of its own. All of its activities depend on its physical senses. Therefore, once an animal dies it ceases to exist. Because we humans are created in the "Image and likeness of God" (intellect, will...and memory which makes us different from the angels) our souls have independent activities of its own... apart from the five senses, which separate us humans from animals, meaning we can reflect on ourselves and we can appreciate the transcendentals....Animals can't. This is why our souls which give us life, since we are created in God's Image, will have life eternally....thanks to our God's essence.
I am not against art.but remember taxes..are taken from poor people & some of those poor people don't enjoy those arts or hv have any access to it..
Poor people are subsidized through welfare and food stamps and pay no taxes.
Food and drink first before beauty sir 😅
Funny that art is associated with wealth when the artists more often than not were starving and impoverished in their need to create.
It's a complete joke to point out a painting and I think your also talking about civil war statues
🥹🌹🧿💧🌊
I don't get the relationship these individuals make between beautiful art and environmental injustice. Better they would glue themselves to an oil rig.
These artworks are usually not destroyed because there is glass covering them. Analogizing climate activists to iconoclastic zealots obsessed with the end times is unfair when you consider that (1) secular art is a commodity, not sacred and (2) climate catastrophe is a real possibility. The point of these stunts is to attract attention, which they have been massively successful at doing. Journalists and commentators (you guys) have taken the bait, which is astounding considering the fact that an environmentalist self-immolated in front of the Supreme Court a few months ago and it barely got any attention. It turns out that harmlessly splattering some old paintings or gluing oneself to a statue is a more effective way of offending middle-class sensibilities than literally incinerating yourself in front of the seat of ultimate judicial power. Let's be clear: the only reason climate activism has gotten to this point is because nothing else is working.