REACTION: Rogue - Doctor Who
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- Reaction to Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson in S1E6 - Rogue
also known as S14E6
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BBC iPlayer episode description: The Doctor and Ruby land in 1813, where guests at a duchess’s party are being murdered and a mysterious bounty hunter called Rogue is about to change the Doctor’s life forever.
You're watching The Shallow Proclamation. Doctor Who fans Paul (who's seen all the episodes) and Thomas (who's been watching from Christopher Eccleston onwards) are working their way through all the Doctor Who content.
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I think the end discussion perfectly articulated my problems with this episode. Y’all are gonna get hate for this one but you’re both completely right. Enjoyed the episode. Loved this review. Please keep ‘em coming
I’ve really enjoyed your videos up until now. What’s the point of a reaction video if you’ve both already watched it?
Can you only react to something once?
The music used during the Doctor's dance is "I've seen that face before" by Grace Jones which uses the music from a piece called Libertango. It is about a mysterious man that haunts her.
Loved this very entertaining episode. It’s scary, funny and moving.
Loved the historical setting. Loved the aliens and their motives.
Love Ncuti as The Doctor. Such great charisma and energy. The cool bit is maybe a different side of the Doctor. If we kept the William Hartnell type Doctor all along, doubt the show would have made the 1970s. Love William Hartnell btw.
I feel all the actors personalities do reflect somewhat in their Doctor.
Looking forward to series 8 reactions and the series 7 review.
I agree with you 100%. Your comments on this episode go toe to toe with my own thoughts on it. Spot on!
I thought this was a very good episode, and one that was very much in keeping with the genre it was pastiching, in particular that of Bridgerton, which I'm also currently enjoying. I do wonder if that lack of context diminishes the viewing experience to a degree. It certainly seems that it's enjoyed more by those who have watched Bridgerton, so there might be something to that.
On the Doctor's flirtatiousness, I don't have a problem with it personally. The idea that the Doctor should be disinclined to be interested in that sort of thing isn't one that I think is particularly useful. I also don't agree that the Doctor was objectifying Rogue from the start. I think it was initially an amused intrigue that became a mutual instant attraction. It's not unheard of for two people to be in a crowded room and for sparks to fly almost immediately. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with fancying one another. I certainly don't think that it's any deeper than that; it's very deliberately a queer love story written by two women. I certainly don't think the Doctor's being predatory in any way. That's a somewhat dark read of it, in my view.
I do commend you both for taking the time is doing these reviews and not just rushing to be the first review on the internet.
The fact that you are prepared to speak out against various issues throughout this season is rather refreshing, since many reviews all seem to say the thing (great! fantastic! brilliant!).
I've not seen Ncuti in anything other than Who (and interviews),but whilst I can see he is clearly a good actor - characterisation seems to be thin on the ground (so is that why he seems to be playing himself?)
So far this season, IMHO we have had some perfectly played scenes but the whole has been rather mediocre.
If Ncuti wasn't available for filming why did they go ahead without their leading man? I'd had preferred the extra time to be spent on tightening the scripts. Perhaps this is the problem when one person has too much control, and the closer you are you tend not to see the bigger picture.
I know there are still 2 more episodes to come - but will we be getting a LIVE discussion afterwards?
Appreciate this Paul. Im certainly more positive about this season than the Chibnall era but it hasn't been the return to form I had perhaps naively hoped for, at least in my opinion. Hopeful for a strong finish though.
2:47 The exteriors with the long, white building and the torches/lanterns were filmed at Margam Orangery, as were the interior ballroom scenes.
I should add that some of the other exteriors (e.g. the "wisteria" scene) were shot at Tredegar House.
The visuals and locations have been top notch app season. Whatever people think of the episodes themselves, I don't think things have ever looked as nice as they do in this season. The Chibnall era was always strong visually too.
They just keep killing Suzie
Thanks guys, I couldn’t put my finger on what I didn’t like about this episode but I think Paul has put his finger on it.
YES WE WERE ALL QUESTIONING STRAIGHT WHITE TENNANT'S INTERPRETATION AND WORRIED THAT HE WAS NOT BEING THE DOCTOR... OH WAIT THEY'VE ALL BEEN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WITH THE ODD SHARED QUIRK HERE AND THERE... INTERESTING THIS DISCUSSION COMES UP WITH A BLACK GAY MAN ACTING *SHOCK HORROR* DIFFERENT.
...eh?
What if Eccilson had looked at rose like this on the first season drooling after her dam right everyone would think he’s a creepy doctor.
@@gaztheman7879 Tennant simps after her like a dog, Capt Jack Harkness would hump that dog... where have you been?
@@gaztheman7879 It's actually funny because it's pointed out in the first series how weird it was that this young girl ran off with this strange older man.
Looking forward to when your classic Who reactions continue instead of the faux imitation of the current version
I agree to some degree with Paul's comment. I think it's important to say that it's not that the Doctor is suddenly gay, it's that he's suddenly stopped being asexual/aromantic, which he always had been in the past, or at least demisexual (needing an emotional connection before sexual attraction happens). I have no problem with his being with another man, I'm gay myself and my SciFi novel has a m/m romantic subplot, but it just seems like he's suddenly fully sexual and romantic, and I think I prefer the show to just not deal with romance and sex and get on with the adventure. So, this is a pretty fundamental change to the show. Some will embrace it, of course, but I don't think the show needs it.
Yes that's helpful. I honestly couldn't care less if the Doctor is gay, straight or anywhere in between. But the move to, as you say, fully sexual and romantic, doesn't feel quite right to me.
It makes a mockery out of homosexuality. You don't just wake up one day all gay. There is nothing erant here. It's just 'switched-on' as if you can don it like a new coat. It's really offensive, frankly. Typical uber-liberal women fetishising two men kissing in a Mills and Boon style romance. It's so cringe.
Why would an age-old Time Lord (or even 'adopted' Time Lord) fit anywhere on the spectrum of human sexual preference? I know it's maybe stretching the point, but he's literally a different species, and much further in advance of us than we are of chimpanzees.
He started flirting with women over 20 years ago 😅 and iirc he gets engaged in an ep of classic who
@@cfor8129 You think he was flirting 20 years ago? Or do you think they were flirting with him and he was responding? It seems to me that he was never initiating the interactions, and that it required an intense emotional involvement to initiate romantic feelings, and frankly there was never an indication of sexual desire at all. Maybe it's too nuanced for you. 😅
I think your discussion about the characterisation of this Doctor was very interesting. I have to say I didn’t get the impression the Doctor initially approached Rogue because he thought he was hot, but because he was intrigued by him and instinctively felt he was out of place. However, I am not and have never been keen on the Doctor being portrayed in an overtly sexual way, as I have always thought his relative lack of interest in exploring the sexual side of his nature is what helped set him apart from other screen heroes. At least we did get to see a darker side to the fifteenth Doctor in this episode, when he vowed to show no mercy to the Chuldur after he had thought they had killed Ruby, as up until now he has come across as quite bland. Hopefully going forward we will see a bit more anger from him and a bit less lachrymosity.
As for the episode as a whole, it was pretty average fare. The Chuldur were quite fun villains, albeit not very memorable, though I think Indira Varma gave a very good performance. Rogue was likeable, but I agree his relationship with the Doctor developed too fast to be believable, and there was a definite sense that this was Captain Jack for a new generation, only with less flamboyance. His apparent demise at the end was quite a powerful moment, but undercut by the blatant signposting that we would see him again, which for me blunted the impact of the final scenes. It all looked great, but ultimately it wasn’t a stand out episode.
My concern about the Doctor's attraction to Rogue was nullified when I rewatched The Girl in the Fireplace... seeing David Tennant talk to, what, an 8-year-old girl, and a minute later that little girl is in her early twenties and he's kissing her. The Doctor cries at the end of the story at Madame de Pompadour's death, missing out getting to travel and snog her. For Rogue, I had to recheck my biases and realize I was full of it. Having seen a couple hater CZcamsrs trying to tear down every Gatwa episode (and CZcams's algorithm showing me more and more hate videos) I had to turn to other reaction youtubers to ground myself and see that new fans have no problem with Gatwa at all.
Loved your comments about this one. I'm gay and I was not a big fan of 'Rogue'. My two fears about this series, (and other Disney series), are 1) the audience will come away with the idea that all LGBT+ relationships are shallow, and 2) having LGBT+ characters in every episode, in every series, will have the opposite of the desired effect, and that instead of audiences sympathizing, that they will grow to hate us, or at the very least, be annoyed by us. Representation is great, but I think we are verging on overrepresentation.
We've had a few comments similar to this and I have to say I read this earlier and felt genuinely upset that it had made you feel this way. I obviously wasn't a fan of the episode but it would be terrible if the show's direction was to actually impact people this way.
Thought long and hard about this. I didn’t enjoy this review. It wasn’t a reaction firstly and you both seemed to do your own Chibnall and appeared to me to be very preachy and on the nose about what the Doctor should or shouldn’t be. I disagreed on many points. I don’t agree this Doctor is arrogant, (6 definitely was and so was JP at times - if we go to extremes of the definition then 2 would be as well for saying he's a genius). 15 is confident, likeable, playful. enjoys his fashion and wears his hearts on his sleeve. And why shouldn’t he be like that and show different sides to his personality. so I don’t see the harsh he's too cool for school thing at all. And from an older perspective I have never considered the Doctor as asexual - he's a grandfather to start with (notwithstanding comments in Legend). And Just because he's older doesn’t mean he can’t have fun. He's not a slippers and cocoa type of man (Hartnell excepted). this business of he can’t be flirting no that’s objectifying - really? I don’t get it. In the end we are adults and can disagree about the season and this Doctor. I’ve really enjoyed it. By the way hasn’t Space Babies been the most traditional adventure so far?. And I do agree the birds looked shite.
Doctor Who and the Angry Birds!
I do think that’s fair enough if that isn’t for you in terms of the love/romance thing not if your annoyed because it’s a man because that’s homophobic. But this sort of thing has happened before this was more overt and that might not be for you but not every episode is for everyone.
Also just to be clear I’m not saying you guys are annoyed because it’s a man
This kind of thing really hasn't happened before though. The Doctor has never exhibited instant lust, throwing smouldering looks at the object of that lust, and behaving like a horny adolescent. He was practically begging Rogue - a complete stranger - to elope with him in the TARDIS! This was so un-Doctorish to me.
Definitely not that. It's exactly what @ftumschk says.
@@TheShallowProclamation completely fair enough as I said I know that wasn’t what you guys were saying but it has been what some have said about it. It’s definitely not my favourite episode but doesn’t irk me to much personally. Honestly I’ve been a rose girl since I started in 2005 so I don’t like seeing to doctor interested in anyone really lol
I really bought into the Rose relationship at the time but looking back now it feels weird to me that a 900 year Timelord would fall for her, particularly given all he says to Sarah Jane in School Reunion. In my head I put it down to PTSD from the time war. He's had a massive trauma in his life and finds comfort in a younger woman. It still feels weird to me now though. And I think that's partly why Journeys End needed a second human Doctor to solve the problem. It couldn't work long term.
However, I think the big difference with Rose is that by the time Ten is getting all flirty with her, we've had a whole season of relationship development. You don't really get as much of a romantic relationship between nine and Rose and he certainly doesn't meet her in episode 1 and start making horny comments about how hot she is etc. I feel that would be the equivalent of what we got in Rogue.
This one just comes across as a mediocre composite of "The Girl in the Fireplace" "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" and "Human Nature/Family of Blood".
... with a dash of Villa Diodati thrown in.
I love a bit of gay flirting, but I don’t need it in Doctor Who. Or any other type of flirting for that matter. Doctor Who can do more interesting things than this.
Gatwa has jumped the shark, this is Ncuti not the Dr on screen
That is slightly my worry. Too heavily influenced by the actor's character and not by the character itself.
Still not had a o there’s the doctor moment except in parts of boom nearly it so far been a bit of a disappointing season and I was really looking forward to it.
He's bloody awful.
I'm so glad I am done with this ridiculous parody. I was out at DavrosGate and don't feel I've missed anything other than a brain haemorrage. I'll stick with real Doctor Who, thank you. I am a gay man, but all this is way to gay for me and for Doctor Who. I have a sudden urge to go touch some grass.
This episode totally disrespectfully went against what Jon Pertwee and Patrick Troughton have said in past interviews the Doctor as being a-sexual they gone really to far with this I'm not homphobic I got nothing against gays I just don't think that should had been the Doctor it should had been his companion instead I've always been against the Doctor having romance also the monsters were cheap and this episode felt more like a bridgerton soap opera in space instead of proper science fiction. This is not Dr. Who.
Yup - Given the fact that the Alphabet mob have made such a hoo-ha about asexual being a 'valid identity' to be celebrated all over social media, they've gone out of their way to erase his asexuality. Are they asexualphobic now? lol. I hate this era, it's so low-brow, run by idiots FOR idiots. Doctor Who used to be a smart show, written by smart people for smart 10 year olds, now it is a dumb show, written by dumb people for dumb 30 year olds.
Did you complain with Tennants 20 girlfriends? Did you complain with Matt Smith and River Song? Did you complain with Capaldis flirtations with Missy? So no, I do think this is your prejudice “against gays”
I actually also prefer the doctor romance free, but only complaining about it when hes with a guy and not with rose Tyler, or the girl in the fireplace, or the family of blood, or river fucking song, is homophobic.
@@jojomojo666 no it isn't. I'm a gay man. It is not homophobic to assert that The Doctor is an asexual character, at least in terms of human romance. He's a thousands year old grandfather figure, he shouldn't be romantic with 19 year old Earth girls, and he shouldn't be "snowmanned" by guys either, just as much as he shouldn't be calling women "honey" or "babes". Come on.
@@Problembeing asexual people can still have sexual relationships...it is a spectrum! Some don't and some do! So the doctor being ace doesn't mean he can't have sexual relationships! The doctor has always been someone that gets intrigued by people really fast and this was not an exception!! Also calling people "honey" or "babes" is just a personality trait of this new doctor, just like all the other doctors have their own unique traits!! (the only thing I agree with is the whole thing of being romantic with 19 year old girls)
Also, it's literally not the first time that the doctor engages in sexual relationships! Literally him and river were very much in a romantic and sexual relationship, ...
I’m totally with Paul here. I would argue that Tenants portrayal did get away with a lot of creepy behaviour that was seemingly forgiven because fans generally found him attractive. I’d like to add that a lot of the RTD writing has fallen into a few negative racial tropes. Which is interesting considering what he said about the perceptions of disability and Davros. Why is this Doctor, that one that sings and dances. Why is this Doctor the one who is led by his sexual desires. Why does this Doctor that cry in every episode so far(stereotype of cowardice ). Why does this Doctor run away? Why does the first black Doctor, have to be queer coded. Understand, with my last point isn’t saying that black men can’t be gay but their is a trope where black men in prominent roles are sanitised to be out of reach of white women. Eg, Tuvok from voyager “cold and distant” worf “Nobel savage” Will Smith in Hancock would destroy the world if he came near the love of his life who happened to be Charlize Theron. Doctor Who didn’t need to show a sexual orientation but they absolutely deliberately did. This is what the episode was about, the alien threat was background decoration. If they want the Doctor to have another romantic relationship, I suppose that’s what’s expected but not before I see him defeat some Daleks or trap an evil alien family. I want The Doctor first ! This is what the 2005 show did well. Even though I didn’t like the Rose stuff, I appreciated that times change but Eccleston was the same Doctor as Hartnell, Baker and McCoy. They were the Doctor first, before the tears and snogging. We need that written for Ncuti.