The New Lightning ELITE OTF VS the Original Lightning OTF - My Opinion and a Look at the Internals
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2020
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I've had the standard Lightning for probably 15 years now and it still fires strong no problem. It's not a great knife but, damn it, it's still kickin!
That’s a long ass time!! Nice to know they last
Ditto! It lives in my desk drawer, and it's honestly just a letter opener/fidget toy but it has never failed me!
I stabbed mine into a tree like 15 years ago. It still works fine lol
Fifteen years still running? By definition that's a great knife
@goneballistic Well, by now it's been 17 years or so. I Still have it and it still fires like new. It won't make any best expensive knife lists, but it is a great knife in its own right.
FYI: the dagger config is very thick on the blade so not super slicey. Get the drop point or tanto if you want a razor edge and thinner blade.
Thx!
Update: yeah I gave it away.. not practical for a dependable EDC.. don’t get the dagger variant unless you only need a knife to.. puncture.. things.
The drop point Lightning is what you want, trust me.
My friend who I gave the dagger to for free doesn’t even like it and he likes everything. Blade is to thick, you can’t get it sharp without a TON of effort.
I will say, the convex edge does seem to hold longer than you’d expect on a generic 420 steel.
@@Errcyco Good points. Any of the single edge blades will outperform the double edge because you can rest your thumb on the spine for more leverage. IF you had to have a double edge, you could grind one into the false double edge on the clip/bowie style blades or the drop point but that just complicates the ordeal plus weakens the tip unnecessarily (due to material removal).
I just had 3 Lightening Elites delivered. All had loose screws which I tightened. Smooth actions, 100% reliable, very good grinds, and reasonably sharp. Very pleased - on sale this past weekend for $24.00 each.
metal, my man: add lithium grease (or whatever else) to the spring, liberally. thats what stops the twang--cheap or otherwise. makes it sound like it costs 10x more.
I didn't think we were gonna watch you reassemble them in silence, but I also kinda enjoyed it! Hehe.. Love my lightnings, good stuff, thanks for the vid!
Very cool video. Where can I find replacement springs for the regular lightning.
Enjoyed the disassembly and light editing! Great video. Seems like it’s a favorable review for a very inexpensive OTF. Would make a great junk drawer knife. I actually said out loud, “oh s%!t.”, when you launched that blade. I don’t know what I was expecting when you got into these but it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. I was hoping to see goo and cobwebs.
I'm kind of curious if the blades are interchangeable...might have to try and see...lol
I can tell you from personal experience that a lightning with one broken spring will not lock out unless it's pointing downward. Also all my body/sideplate screws were a perfect T9?
Great video. I couldn’t stop laughing when I saw the blade eject off screen!
I just got my lightning elite, and I'm having problems with it jumping off track when closing it almost every time! Any ideas would be great.
Waiting for UPS to drop off my Elite now. It'll be my first OTF.
Just got mine today and love it
Same bro love it
That’s why I be watching these vids mine should come in, in a couple days
Anyone still using their otf elite? How is it?
@@Belliferous gave it to my neighbor.
I'm thinking of getting a lightning otf , would you still recommend it for a budget otf ?
I have an original Taiwan model that I edc’d for a year. I beat the crap out of it. Hardly any paint left and the tip has been missing for a long time. Still fires incredibly reliably. I love it so I got three of the elites and they fail to fire over 50% so about as reliable as the China model. The blade grind on all the elites went down onto the choil, they added a third clip screw that still failed to keep it from slipping, the edge is totally inconsistent, the paint is all but gone after a month of use. It’s also got a weird blade belly. The extra five dollars is for the laser engraving on the clip😂
And more than likely a Bolt upgrade. It feels exactly like the China Lightning’s and Bolts. Literally every other actuation the Elite fails to shoot out and if it does, they will most definitely not return into the handle without coming off the rails.
What kind of elite did you get? The one I have works fine
@@LoganLawrence what blade did you get
@@LoganLawrence what style btw
18:58 Are ballistic knives illegal in Kansas? 😂
The Elite has a bit more material on the pocket clip and an extra screw which might account for the slight weight difference.
Great video. Thanks for opening them both up and showing the internals. I'm interested to see peoples feedback on the elite version long term. Id still go with the lighting as I was able to pick the exact color variation that I like (blue handle, two-tone blade).
So far that's the most comprehensive review out there for comparison. Really enjoyed it and thanks to You I've made my mind.
This is a cool review! I just got a non-branded version for $17 (pretty sure it's a Bolt). I normally carry Benchmade or my Daggerr Resident for the last couple years, but these budget OTFs are cool for what they are. Some people look down on them for being cheap, I look at them like the original AK rifle... Cheap, loose tolerances, but dang near unstoppable.
Note to future self. Don’t fire the lightning elite while it’s open haha. That was pretty funny. I heard it and wondered what that noise was. Good review. I see the slight differences and quality.
Just fyi, on the Lightning Elite, if you are having failures file down the blade stop just a little and reassemble and see if that fixes the problem. I had malfunctions and after I shaved down the blade stop, it works flawlessly.
I see some visible differences. The Elite appears to have a more finished actuator slide and ever-so-slightly larger blade locks, though it's hard to tell since the knife is never fully disassembled and dimensioned.
What ARE the things needed in a DA OTF to make it super-sturdy? Super-reliable?
Well, big blade locks certainly help. Adequate blade length inside the handle when deployed helps. Zero to minimal blade play is nice, but not necessary and could even negatively impact reliability if not well-engineered.
Reliable? Well, that's all springs isn't it. IF the spring is too strong it places unneeded stress on the chassis with each "firing." If too light, the blade tends to fail to achieve lock. DA OTF knives work by catapulting the blade - the blade is placed under tension by the button moving forward, extending the spring, then the blade lock is depressed, allowing the blade to catapult forward using inertia to reach full extension and be captured by the front lock. Closing is the reverse. During the middle portion of the blade's movement it has no external propulsive force which is the real reason it's easy to stop the blade of ALL DA OTF knives with minimal interference. It's not a "safety feature" - that's just a marketing ploy to conceal the DA OTF knife's major engineering weakness...the blade is only under power for a fraction of it's movement either fore or aft. So in reality, other than having "enough" spring power to catapult the blade, there is nothing to gain from more spring force other than wear and difficulty of operation.
However, like ALL "weapons systems" as long as the operator understands HOW and WHY the system works as it does, training to function within the weapon's best parameters is important. In the case of DA OTF knives this means training to always deploy them blade DOWN to gravity is adding to the inertia imparted by the spring! I've yet to see a DA OTF knife fail to fully deploy when "fired" nose down - even when containing excess oil that absolutely stopped the blade from deploying at an upward angle! Just watch John Wick deploy his blade nose down as he enters the train....THAT is sound tactical employment of a DA OTF knife of ALL brands.
It is worth pointing out here that the design limitation is precisely why serious OTF knife users carry SINGLE-ACTION designs. These designs only propel the blade forward and thus can have very powerful launch springs that push the blade during the entirety of it's travel. SA OTF knives should also be deployed nose down to avoid failing to lock forward due to blade bounce...the harder the spring fires the blade the more likely it is to bounce slightly before the button is release. A solution to this of course would be a separate lock that captures the blade independent of the deployment button, but I haven't seen it on even high-end knives such as the Halo series, or even the much larger Paragon Estiletto. Propery training is the key to using all OTF knives, but the SA design will ALWAYS fire and will ALWAYS reach lock even if the blade is momentarily stopped against an object. I've tested firing a Halo V nose up and the blade will fail to "lock" due to blade bounce about 80% of the time...about 30% of the time when fired horizontally to a slight vertical, and NEVER when fired with a downward angle!
Also, SA designs do not have a fragile, lever type blade lock, but in the case of the Halo V the large deployment button locks the blade and that's a LOT of surface area to smash in order to make the blade lock fail. The aluminum knife chassis will of course shatter before the blade gives way.
Because a SA OTF only need lock forward, it can be designed with a near-zero tolerance blade to handle fit, and with adequate blade shank retained inside, would stand up to a great deal of lateral bending force, but will of course SHATTER if used to bridge a space and hold a load, but in fairness, so will hinge-blade knives. If you need a blade to jam into a crack and support your weight you want a full-tang fixed blade, period.
A DA OTF TRULY built for combat would used a STEEL chassis to support the blade, retain ample blade shank inside when deployed and used stiff, spring-steel blade locks externally secured to the steel chassis. The blade actuation components would reside in a parallel chassis section thus given the blade full support completely around the shank, and such a design COULD withstand being used as a bridge or support weight hanging from the handle with the blade fixed into a crevice. To fail the blade locks would require sledge-hammer blows. The aluminum chassis MT designs aren't even close to this league...titanium would work but it would be expensive - and not needed for other than bragging rights.
But consider how much easier it would be to build a SA OTF using a steel chassis...capable of using a spring powerful enough to thrust the blade through various blocks, and even perform a manual stab with contact deployment. Using a secondary blade lock and firing dampener, the blade would never fail to lock solid, and with so much excess power, the chassis to blade tolerance could truly be brought to zero, especially with the use of small, brass inserts to reduce total surface contact.
Good job bro
Dam…I mean you know you shit..
I’m glad to see 3 screws holding on the pocket clip. My 2 screws come loose a lot.
I say it's a different company too. The hollow grind is cool. I may impulse buy it. It's been in the cart a few times.
Looks like a good knife to see if I like OTFs before shelling out for a Microtech or Gaurdian Tactical thank you
Any information on the cobratec OTF??
where can i buy these? also do they ship to italy?
thanks
When the surprise ballistic knife came out I was almost brought to tears
When the blade shot out, Beautiful. I love this channel!!
i have a hunch about the lightning elite as well. iv seen some of the same blades used on other chinese otfs I had a microtech copy and it had a identical looking tanto blade to some of the offerings on the elite
How are the compared to Cobra Tech???
One of the areas you didn't focus on too much is the weight difference. This actually fluctuates a lot across all of the "Lightning" branded knifes on the market. One of the reasons I love the early (original) Taiwanese Lightning OTFs was the feather weight. It sat virtually unnoticed in my pocket. I purchased a couple of tanto bladed Lightnings 2 years ago and they felt like bricks compared to the original. For example:
First Lightning (drop-point/half-serrated/mono-color handles): 3.73 oz. (aluminum?)
Gift Lightnings (tanto/with graphic handles): 6.80 oz. (nearly TWICE the weight/lead-based?)
Recent Lightning (dagger blade/mono-color): 3.90 oz. (aluminum?)
New Lightning Elite (varied/mono-color): 4.13 oz. (heavier aluminum?)
There seems to be many different companies making clones of clones of clones. Additionally, a lot of sites also tend to copy and paste knife details from other knives labeled as coming from the same manufacturer so the page may list the weight as 3.90 oz., but the knife you receive is 6.80 oz. (or vice versa); so caveat emptor.
For me, lighter is better. I have quality OTF automatics that come in under 3.5 ounces and it makes carrying them less of a chore. As far as Lightnings, I love the original lightweight version. It's an excellent tool/tackle/junk/glove box knife. It's reliable, it cuts, it takes a beating.
Honestly, the difference in weight (between the 6 or so I've handled) is trivial to me. Never had one more than 0.5 oz off the average. Sounds like you've already got a good idea of what's important to you though 👍
The "original" Lightnings sold now weigh approx. 3.9oz. There are versions called Lightning HD (Heavy-Duty) which weight approx. 7.5oz.
Where can I get an elite? Every website I see has out of stock?
Ordered the torx bits and driver through your links 👍
I gotta give you credit bro, I got one of these because a video you did about your brothers. An how long he’s had it. I’ve had it a few weeks now an love it. I got the tanto it’s amazing grind an it is razor sharp. I see you still have your brothers knife. I really don’t understand why anyone needs to pay more unless you have money laying around. There is one other one I would like to try after Christmas the slenderman otf if you could look into that I would be in you debt I enjoy you once over commentary.
You know also my mechanical mind looking at the elite the plate looks much more strong. Just the design of the plate looks stronger. But I haven’t taken enough apart to know if that matters. I would really like to know what are the failures of otf. What needs to be strong an what is just dress up if you know what I mean. That would be a great video with funds see the failures of otf what can be made better an what can’t.
Now I’m confused. I ordered a lightning but it looks like the elite except the pocket clip.
So I disassembled it and it seems to be the elite.
Definitely worth the 5 extra dollars for the improved feel when deploying and retracting the blade. Less vibration, better sounding, overall the Elite just feels better. I ordered one of each, and I love both for what they are. I am curious to what time will tell with the Elite, since the OG Lightning has already got that under its belt.
Good review!
Had my original Lightening for at least 8 years and it’s held up great. Just ordered an Elite for a friend and I hope the newer model holds up as well as mine did for him.
the fuller on the elite makes it look nice
Great review! Is there an alternative to REM oil? I can't find any where I live and it's $40+ to get a can shipped to me.
I think people say WD-40 is a good alternative.
If you use WD-40, I recommend using WD-40 with silicon because it leaves more lubricant after it has evaporated. 3-in-1 oil, Ballistol, or CLP also work. You can find these at Home Depot, Wal-Mart, or Ace Hardware if you live in the United States.
@@reasonablenamehere I called them to double check and am planning to use Tri-Flow with teflon. They said that should work perfectly.
Silicon. It’s fairly inexpensive (comparatively) and does not “dry out” or attract dirt, dust, or debris.
@@thecia5122 thanks! I ended up using TriFlow.
Where’s the sweet spot? Looking for an otf for edc and as a tool. I value one handed and my hands.
The "latches" or locking tangs or whatever they're called appear to be significantly more robust on the Elite.
The regular lightning is on sale for $25 this weekend!
make sure its not from china! lightning is made there, too, and should be avoided im favor of the ones from taiwan
btw, I have extra ultratech springs but accidentally threw my ultratech into the dumpster, so if someone needs one or two in the Seattle area, hit me up
My lighting elite fails to deploy alot
According to Grindworx, the Lightning "Elite" is a Chinese-made clone. The major difference is the injection-molded zinc handle. The regular Lightning is made in Taiwan and is vastly superior. For the record, one spring vs. two is inferior due to thickness and over-tensioning of the single spring.
That didn’t age well
@@kingstonlabelle6954 can you elaborate?
@@nononono12345 The sales of the elite have skyrocketed along with the reviews it is a much better knife for only five dollars more, almost everything he said in this comment is incorrect the originals were never made in Taiwan and still aren’t. And that one Spring is not over tensioned and the two strings were too much for the original lightning.
@@kingstonlabelle6954 I need more research. Seen some comments and reviews saying the Elite fails a lot more often, similar to the old Chinese clone.
However the original Lightning is authentically made in Taiwan.
At least the Taiwanese people do take pride in their jobs and work, unlike China.
I bought 2 Lightning Elite OTFs and the smaller lightning fireball otf and on all 3 of them the action is so stiff, they are hard af to open. Both my thumbs are tore up from opening these.
Gonna get one to go with my hk/hogue hadron.
Is this a good toe knife?
I have had my lightning original for almost a year and it has never left my pocket and if I have more than one knife it's still going to be the lightning.
And this knife is so durable also
Mine has no paint 10% paint left and its still kicking hard
I wonder if the metal handle could be polished once the paint is gone. Like take a dremel with a polishing pad and compound and go to town on it. Lol
Overall this is a good, comprehensive video but like virtually all others you focused on everything BUT the core strength or weakness of a DA OTF system. The blade locks!
I wish you had measured the thickness of the blade locks, and maybe even removed them and gently passed a file across one to determine it's state of hardness - if any. My one issue with "budget" OTF knives is their skimpy blade locks with oversized lock recesses that allow the lock to move around when placed under tension - as happens when the blade is deployed, and when the tip is being forced into a resistive substance.
Aside from the known quality of materials used, the main reason one pays big for Microtech are those massive blade locks that are correctly shaped to promote full engagement, even under load.
The lock strength only matters if you plan to use it like any other tool besides a knife, which isn't something I'd recommend. If you use it like a knife, everything will work out just fine.
WOAH you showed us how to make a knife launcher.
Another great comparison and nice flying dagger😅
Cool seeing the internals...seems like the elite is a good deal for an extra $5.
When you break the tip off your lightning and have to regrind it its all good still fires every time.
I literally just broke the tip off my lightning
It would make sense if the company updated its design to decrease the cost of manufacturing, materials, parts, and assembly while slightly increasing its quality.
However they probably just could've just done updates the the original lightning. Maybe they're just marketing a more expensive knife to cover the costs of designing and tooling for a new knife.
It very well might be a different factor if they're still making the original lightning. And it very well could be a completely different manufacturer company that's making it.
Having never owned an OTF knife, I did find the internals interesting. Always wondered why they tend to be so "boxy". It would seem that with a little design work, the internals COULD fit into a more hand friendly molded handle?? That would make them a little more appealing to me....(Though, CA law says I still can't have one. :) )
Yes you can, it just has to be very short bladed, like the Microtech Exocet
Even if the law allowed you to have one, it would likely give you cancer if you lived in California anyhow.
Just ordered the Lightning Elite will be delivered tomorrow.
Up and down blade play on the Elite?
Yep
I have a few. I started off with a normal Lighting. That one is good. Still going strong. Then I bought a serrated blade, and it has a very, very weak spring, and it's heavier. So maybe that's one of the Chinese ones...
Now, for the Elites: Total night and day difference. The Elites (I bought four when they were on sale.) I kept two-gave two as gifts. And they are WAY better than either of the standard ones. A lot better/stronger deployment, a lot more solid feel, and came out of the box just slightly sharper.
So my experience: I'd go with the Elites, especially for the slight price increase, every time.
Thanks for the video. Take care.
Have the first, now gotta get the Elite!
I have a couple older ones (8 years plus). I bought a new camo one about 3 years ago.
It came in a box, not a simple sealed baggie, as before. It was heavier than the older one, and it sounded different when firing. Different company=different knife.
My new Lightening broke with a few days. I heard broken metal pieces on the inside.
These are crap.
The classic, reliable Lightening is long gone. What a shame.
awesome looking otf. great video
I comment as I'm watching. but thank's for pointing it out. Apparently neither did you
@Desert Smeagol get wrecked mouse for brains
About 19:30 in you had the hooks reversed on the Elite...I can see when you noticed it, but didn't say a word! Eggcellent!
I’ve always wanted to try out a lightning otf because of how good they seem to be but because of where I used to live, I couldn’t own one. I live in Missouri now and I recently just bought one of these knives and it’s a great knife for the price. I recommend it to anyone who wants one.
I spritzed the inside of mine with WD/40 and it made the action smoother and quieter.
No sure if the lightning elite are made by lightning because they are not on their website.
As much as I love Lightnings for being a very good affordable OTF, the internal blade spring tabs are their fatal flaw. I've owned three originals since they first released, and two of them are now basically gravity knives due to the spring tabs bending/breaking so the blade will no long fire. Rebending the tabs can only be done a couple times (and won't last long) before they simply shear off at the elbow from metal fatigue. Apparently they use very mild steel with no heat treat on the inner mechanism parts, and the factory bending as opposed to machining or stamping the 90-degree angle into the tabs only exacerbates their inherent weakness.
I haven't tried the Elites yet; but I mean honestly I don't care about the black accents or three-screw clip as long as they've fixed the poor tab design. All the rest is cosmetic and pointless when your knife won't fire.
The original (Taiwan production) Lightnings had AUS8 blades by the way. I can't speak to the newer runs or the Elites, but I don't see why they'd be any different.
I want to place an order, how do I do that?
Go to grindworks. That's where you buy them 👍
@@metal_complex thanks 👍
Wow, a knife you can shoot something with, That's new... COOL!
Dude I was about to drop some serious money on a utx70. In a random Reddit thread in /r/knives someone left a comment that just said “Groundworx Lightning” and damn.. yep. This is where it’s at. This quality for $35 ($44 shipped for me with cheapest ship option) is very cool. They are a dope tool to have in your tool bag or a knife for work where you only have one hand free. Unfortunate that a few criminals have put a stigma on OTF’s but whatever. It’s up to is normal folks to bring them back to normalcy.
Love the edited taking apart and the live action , albeit silent put back together aspect of the video lol
I did my best to make it somewhat entertaining. Glad you enjoyed it 😅
Wish I could have one of these,, no otfs in canada :(
Thats a huge bummer
Yup, to scary I guess lol
So.........lost my shit laughing when you launched the elite blade across the room🤣, I was on the edge waiting for you to say something like "And the Elites blade is made of S35vn!!!!!!"........I would agree its worth 5 bucks more.
Did you forget to edit the reassembly or didn't on purpose? Lastly, how hilarious would it be if these were made behind the guarded back door basement whatever TF in both Spyderco plants😂😂😂😂
I tried grabbing a couple off grindworx but they wouldn't send them without picking one of those exceptions
I did however grab an otf at my local flea market it's made by a company called BA usa
I tried from grindworx a few days ago with the same result. I was hoping someone in here could give us an answer on what to say?
LMAO The blade moment was great.
“Aaaahhhhh it might actually be different “. Lol
I just ordered a black Lightning Elite from Grindworx for 24.99. Hope it's better than the 2 medium Atomic Defenders I got a few weeks ago. One of em broke before I even carried it and the other misfires alot. Shoulda got this one to begin with.
How’s your elite so far? I just ordered one…
@@I12beinu man it was great for 8months or so of abuse. I'm sure it'd be goin strong today but I lost it. Oh well that's the beauty of a low priced blade I'll jus get another
19:00 omg
So ok, you got me. I had to stop the video and go buy one. Yes i came back and finished yur vid. Ty
They are surprisingly good quality and very reliable. Lots of fun for the money!
Awesome i dont have a otf but this will be my first to try before i dive deep into this area of the knife world, love my budget knives
I bought a lightning about three months ago it came razor sharp shaves hair it's tight not sloppy never fails holds it's edge fairly well money well spent 😂
@@RepEvox i will get this just to get my feet wet see if i like it as much as he hates benchmade id like a infadel or something simular to it i think ill like a dagger type with a otf but im more of a drop point to recurve guy regularly because of my every day task
@@RepEvox i dont see a otf as a user knife i see it as a conversation piece used for looks and fidget some people like Dick will use his otfs im jot in the sand box anymore and never used a knife anyways to fight the only other reason in my un educated opinion on this topic is to play with and look at i personally like the looks of the infidel thats all there is too it when i get deeper into this subject my mind will most likely change if you would like to refer a otf with the same profile as the infidel and blade shape like the troodon dagger (most likely the knife ill purchase i couldnt remember the name earlier) i would much appriciate it i personally just like the looks also i hate seraded blades
Were you the one trying to justify knockoffs to me earlier? I haven't removed any comments under this user name, but I deleted a bunch earlier today from someone who was trying to make an argument for clones.
@@RepEvox i mostly agree with you and appriciate it
The lightning Elite is not the same as the Bolt luckily. The internals of the bolt match the original lightning more than it does the new Elite. Its definitely way better build quality.
Where can I buy???
Grindworx
Just ordered a drop and tanto one.. for $35 u can’t go wrong
It looks like a Microtech Scarab but the dude on AutoCAD decided to call it a day early.
I live in a state where I can’t carry an OTF But I’ve come very close to buying a Benchmade phaeton or an ultra tech but decided not to spend $300 on a knife I can’t carry legally, $35 fidget toy is much better!
Interesting...I got two elites..I'm pretty sure one is a "fake" Elite (LOL) and the other is legit...what's funny is the internals are slightly different (fake has longer handle) and one weighs more than the other (the legit Elite weighs almost the same as the one you have in this video...the fake one weights less..I don't get it, but I was having issues with the fake one..but I fixed it with a little cleaning of the internals. Both virtually cost the same....yeah...
Looks like an upgraded bolt 🔩
I was not prepared to laugh as hard as I did when you opened the elite lmao
Waiting for my elite.
They need to make them 25-33% thinner.
The big issue with the cheaper otf's is that they are molds rather than hand finished together. Where as a company such as microtech takes the top case and bottom case and puts them together before they finish them, that way they line up perfectly 🥰 good videos though :) the lightning to me would be just a decent knife in general. Nothing crazy good or special but not gonna be complete garbage. And it will cut most things you need on a daily basis with good sharpening upkeep
live in the uk so no chance of getting anything even the cheap ones
Wonder why the elite weighed more...
Your video content is "excellent"!
A $35 ballistic knife!! I'm getting 10 of them😂
I just got a lightning otf for a friend. Its kind of a copycat of a microtech. I'm looking forward to getting it in the mail and seeing how it compares to a Guardian Tactical Recon.
I've had an original lightning for 2 years. Been perfect. It's also never made that twang sound.
It’s great that you have to look up a video on CZcams, because the company that makes the knives couldn’t be bothered to list ONE FUCKING DIFFERENCE between the two on their site.
Tom Hanks??