Dunkirk: The Forgotten Heroes - The 51st Highland Division | Guy Martin Proper
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- čas přidán 26. 11. 2020
- Made back in 2018 for Channel 4 by the production company that produces all of Guy's adventures. This is the story of the 51st Highland Division, the forgotten heroes of Dunkirk who were left in France when Dunkirk was evacuated, and ordered to fight on against Hitler's war machine, in the face of overwhelming odds. While not featuring Guy, this is still a proper documentary that needs to be seen. To watch in full, head over to All4 - www.channel4.com/programmes/d...
Enjoy...
#Dunkirk #ForgottenHeroes
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My grandfather was captured there and spent the duration of the war in prison camps. As a result he had a hatred for the British military high command which he held to his passing.
War is never good...
Same man, mental how we are even alive our self isn't it ?
So was my grandfather
My grandad was one of these men thank you for making this wonderful tribute to them all Guy my grandad was Frank Hammerton
Scottish heroes
My grandad too he was Rodney mackenzie
My father was held in starlerg 14.for 4 years Philip nicol from glaagow/greenock
my uncle james mcgrath from leeds was there. Pto officer...
My grandad wee mac, was general fortunes batman
My father Donald Beaton a lance corporal in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders was in the rearguard at Dunkirk and at St Valery where he was captured. He and his mates were force marched through France Belgium and Holland any who could not keep up were shot out of hand. He spent the rest of the war not just as a POW but as a slave labourers in a salt mine. When
he eventually was freed and got back home he was so emaciated the rest of the family thought he had been a prisoner of the Japanese.
My father in law was at St Valery with the 51st and a POW at Lamsdorf.
Thanks for your comments really appreciated.
Met some of 51st.in the sixties,they felt betrayed and were bitter😥🏴
Follow the link in the description - it's an incredible and very moving story.
Utterly shameful how the 51st Highland Division have subsequently been treated by the War Office.
No official recognition and no campaign medal - an appalling insult to those who fought and died, and to those who made it back.
Ian MacFarlane - Are you serious, nothing? Not a bit of recognition for their sacrifice
in all this huge conflagration, nothing at ALL? The British Government has a lot to
answer for, and only for the 51st Highlanders, for a great many underhanded acts,
of straight out bloody mindedness (no pun intended AT ALL) commited by senior
leadership in both this instance, and agerat many, many more, in both the World Wars
where not only did they hang there own Men out to dry, but also, and far more often,
their British Empire (Comonwealth) Allies.
@@karlmuller3690 I am serious.
No recognition and no campaign medal.
The British establishment can't hand out gongs quickly enough when it comes to politicians, aristocrats, corporate big-wigs, bankers, theatrical 'luvvies' and singers, but when it comes to those who sacrificed everything...no can do.
The 51st Highland Division would have received more recognition if they'd written a West End musical about their exploits.
And you're correct to say that those who've fought alongside the British have often been treated shamefully - the legendary Gurkhas being the most obvious example.
It would be easy enough, (regarding the 51st Highland Division) to say that it was an oversight, but that's no excuse - the establishment have had decades to rectify things.
@@ianmacfarlane1241
The 51st did not flinch from what they were tasked to do and no quarter was given. Many of those that were captured had to endure the wrath of the enemy they had fought so bitterly against and they were not defending their own territory but standing up against the elite of the Nazi regimes war machinery on French soil.
From the 13th of May against unimaginable odds they carried on fighting until their inevitable surrender on the 12th of June and a week after the main force of the BEF had fled from France at Dunkirk.
The Germans broke through the British lines defended by Territorial units at Doullens on the 20th May after crashing through Sedan on the 10th May . The 51st were attacked on the 13th May at their positions on the maginot line and then fought their way back over 350 miles to St Vallery.
To receive no recognition or not be credited for their supporting role of Operation Dynamo and the subsequent Cycle and Aerial operations is nothing less than a national disgrace
There a Three Lions at the foot of Nelson's column whilst the fourth spot is dedicated to LGBT unicorn causes. A bronze piper from the 5st would be a far more fitting tribute for the men from Scotland who stood by their French allies until the very last.
Probably because they were a mostly Scottish regiment.
@@YerDa67 As if !!
The Scots in the British Army, the first to fight and last to be remembered.
St. Valery.
First in and first out they used to say
Guy has a knack for addressing important things people forget about. This isn't just moving, it's necessary. Thanks Guy
Great way to put it, we should all be learning about these men and others.
100 % no one should ever forget about the sacrifices that were made by the soldiers who fought for the allies during World War II
I agree . Respect guy . These boys should never be forgotten
absolutely. Well said.
One of the most amazing things about soldiers of World War II, and probably true for most soldiers, is that they never forget even 50-60 years later they can still feel those days like they were yesterday. Thank you for doing this video and honoring the memory of these men
It's something that people, possibly without veterans in their immediate family, don't comprehend. When the veterans relive these things, they aren't 90 year olds recalling events. They are back at age 17 or a bit older, like being returned into a bad movie. I know just a few people in their 70's who went through the forced residential school system in western Canada. They were taken away not yet 10 years old and got smacked around by nuns just for playing their native games and speaking the only language they knew. They didn't know anything else. That would mess up anybody. Remembering trauma is a very real pain and confusion.
@@charlieross-BRM i agree 😊
People always remember being young and given what they seen when young how could you ever forget.
Real men left to fight to the last and they fought hard and we appreciate your valour everyman is a hero.
It’s hard to believe these blokes are so sharp at 100 years.
Filmed 2018 the full program is on all four link in description
My friend that is such a stupid and completely ignorant thing to say about people who are older.
@@matthew-jy5jp you’re just taking it wrong. You must be having a bad day. Might be time to do some introspective attitude adjustment
@@matthew-jy5jp Why is it "stupid and completely ignorant"?
Do people's mental faculties diminish as they age?
Yes.
The ageing process affects people physically and mentally - there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that fact.
The rate at which people's abilities diminish varies greatly from one person to another, with some people showing signs of diminishing mental acuity in their 50s, while others might remain pretty sharp into their 90s - it's extremely unfortunate for those who lose sharpness at a young age, but there's no point in running away from it - denial helps no-one, and is actually counterproductive.
I've no idea why you jumped on OP's comment - only you know why, but it certainly wasn't stupid, ignorant or offensive.
The French however didn’t forget. From a speech by Charles de Gaulle
“That the soil of France enfolds lovingly the thousands and thousands of Scots whose blood was shed with that of our own soldiers during the last war, I can affirm. The monument to their memory on the hill of Buzancy has, I know, never been more frequently bedecked with flowers than since the new invasion. If the roses of France are bloodstained to-day, they still cluster round the thistle of Scotland. For my part, I can say that the comradeship of arms, sealed on the battlefield of Abbeville in May-June, 1940, between the French armoured division which I had the honour to command and the gallant 51st Scottish Division under General Fortune, played its part in the decision which I made to continue the fight at the side of the Allies to the end, come what may.”
This is beautiful and I never knew he said that. Two great uncles in the 51st, one survived the other did not sadly. Proud scotsmen and made of iron, rest in peace uncles Tom and Rab, flowers o Scotland 🏴
My father was one of the forgotten heroes he never talked about it and was taken prisoner at St Valery it must of been hell for they all
My Grandfather James Cromar was one of these brave men, captured & was the 1st PoW to escape over the Comet line, very proud Grandson, very proud, look Him up, My Hero
What heroes. Must have been terrifying. Bless them all.
At 7:54 Eric Taylor, i look after his garden for him here in Cornwall, a wonderful old boy who turned 100 last summer. He often tells me of his time during the war, being captured by the Germans and what they had to do. So much respect for him. He's a real character, sharp as a pin with the wit and humour of an old soldier....
Please extend our very best to Eric,
Slain te' 🍻
from Nova Scots🍁!
@@rpm1796 I will do next time i see him.
Imagine what those men did and how they lived with it for so long, we are so lucky now and its thanks to the men and women like this. Thank you all for your service.
My grandfather was part of the 51st Highland Division. They made their escape via St Valery. He went on to fight in North Africa and the battle of Monte Cassino.
So was my great uncle. He also managed to escape, and then fight in North Africa and Monte Cassino.
My grandfather did exactly the same
Thank you Guy for posting this.
The 51st Highland Division left behind , to their own fate , god bless them
The C-in-C Portsmouth, Admiral James, sent an evacuation fleet of over 200 ships to bring them out. Fog prevented the lift on the first night, and the commander of the French force with which the 51st were serving surrendered before the planned attempt on the second could take place.
These men where abandoned by Churchill and then at the end of the war there treatment was no better. The story of the Death Marchs also needs to be told.
My Grandfather was fighting here too. George Moultrie 2868419 CSM Gordon Highlanders. I think he was in the 7th. If anyone know of a comrad or relative who was in this company and canshed light on his war effort it would be a great help to some closure and understanding. He would never speak of the war again from tge day he came home. He was awarded the DCM. But there's no record of this or citation. We've been told it's classified/too sensitive and will not be disclosed. Any help with understanding this would be a great help.
My father was part of the 51st,captured and spent the duration in Stalag 383 "
Barbed Wire"
My grandfather was also captured after being wounded and sent to Stalag 383 . His name was James Bond from the Blackwatch .
@@dianehilsley9378 as my father joined in Aberdeen he was in the Gordon Highlanders although he came from the Blackwatch recruiting area.
@@dianehilsley9378 have you read Barbed wire.? Very interesting, although it is 40yrs since I read it!
@@lindsaybell4083 I haven't but will try and get hold of it . I have the book " Dunkirk The men they left behind " by Sean Longden but haven't read it yet . I live with my 90 year old mother who has just read it and it was her father in the Black watch .
I am glad this is getting coverage
My granddad was there, 51st HD Royal Engineers. He made it through every campaign they took part in. He told me some stories but there were other things that he would never talk about.
Same with my great uncle. He was a 51st HD Royal Engineer (Sapper) and fought up through Italy - Monte Cassino, after North Africa
They never do.
Mutiny at Salerno by Saul David should give you a great insight into just how badly treated the Scottish Troops were. My Grandfather was Robert Thompson, Seaforth Highlanders.
My uncle was Richard Thompson Seaforth Highlanders possibly relatives as well as comrades
It's the first time i hear about this. In France we know a lot about Dunkerque, because it is a part of history we share, and this was really incredible. But for the 51st .. can't wait to see the next episode.
France will never betray Scotland Churchill only needed to assure France that the 51st were a rearguard at Dunkirk France would have fought on until they were evacuated. 12000 Scots wasted by that useless bastard.
We will never forget your efforts and sacrifice, thank you.
A very poignant ten minutes - I hope there's a second part.
We will remember them.
It’s on all four link in description
@@jamesthurston1212 Cheers - I watched quite a lot of Guy Martin's Ch4 stuff, but clearly missed a bit of it👋
czcams.com/video/6GecLpYHiVI/video.html
For everyone else that isn't from the UK and can't watch on the channel4 website.
@@jamesthurston1212 ye but you gotta make an account to watch it. was interested but nah thanks.
@@davidjereb thanks for the link, watched it there. really interesting, I actually never heard the story of the 51st before.
My Grandfather was in The Rifle Brigade, shipped to Calais and told to fight to the last man. The Siege of Calais was quite a battle, but is also generally forgotten. Fortunately, my Grandfather was captured. He spent the rest of conflict a POW. However, he was so bitter towards the Government of the time.
He wasn't consoled by the fact (as I reminded him) that had he escaped Calais, he might have died on any of the other Fronts, or at Normandy. (My father was born in 1938, so I would have still been here). My Grandfather never changed his mind. He spoke of a few horrors there, but would then change the subject. I wish that I had pressed him about it. He was in HQ Company and the area that he was eventually captured in, was I believe the area that is now the parking area for the ferries.
A superb book Flames over Calais by Airey Neave, who was there is well worth a read.
There is a great painting by Terence Cuneo depicting the scene. I have a copy.
www.pinterest.com/pin/557390891363845400/
Thanks for posting this !!👍👍👍👍👍👍
Makes me so proud to have two grandfathers who both served, one lied at age 16 to sign up and was tail gunner in a Halifax bomber and the other serving in India as a ground troop. This world would be nothing now without their sacrifice
No the world would be a much better place without British imperialism
Thanks so much mate
Thank You GUY
My father told me so many things about this, his group failed to stop the tanks reaching St Valery.
They tried hitting the tanks with everything they had but his squad of 19 men were captured at the coastline outside St Valery.
They hid in coastal houses then destroyed the 19 bren guns when the bullets ran low.
His team were not meant to be in France, they missed a plane to go to North Africa during the Phoney War stationed at the Ardennes Maginot Line with BEF1 / Camerons.
He was trained on bren guns from age 16 with Staford TA.1936 to 1938 then asked to jion the Camerons in 1939 and to Stirling and.51st Highlands.
The 51st were not recruits like a lot of the evacuated Dunkirk troops BEF2.
They were in the army before the war. Maybe a reason why the Germans drove around them. And also they had probably become too friendly with over 8 months to fight them 😂
I never heard this story before ,i dont think many people have ever heard of this chapter in the war .
I salut all of you fine soldier's, you done us proud .thankyou from the bottom of my heart.
@Andrew Bull
If you're interested in obscure, interesting war stories then @Mark Felton is a channel I'd highly recommend.
Another fantastic channel is @LivethforEvermore.
I can recommend more if you're interested though there are hours...days of great content on both channels.
@@ianmacfarlane1241 ,thanks ,will look at these channels.
@@andrewbull3537 No problem - I'll dig out some more.
Mark Felton has two channels - Mark Felton & Mark Felton War Stories, with the latter being fictional stories written by the man himself.
Off the top of my head I can't remember his academic qualifications, but he's either a Professor or Dr - either way, he knows his stuff, and has an incredible talent for digging out the obscure, unusual and fascinating.
A comment you'll often see on his videos is, "I thought that I knew a lot about _________ conflict, but I've never heard about this before".
LivethforEvermore is different - mainly dealing with Special Ops / Elite units, but again it's well worth a watch, and the whole tone is very respectful.
@@ianmacfarlane1241 ,thanks for the info......by the way .......HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!
Thank you
My Grandad was the 51st Highland divison and ended up in North Africa. He had a friend in his division who was Welsh he never made it home. God bless these men and we should never forget their sacrifice.
A army of children fighting a war..most were on 18 19..brave men.
My papa was 51st thanks guy amazing vid
Those who know about courage and sacrifice will never forget. Don't forget that French soldiers were also sacrificed to allow the escape from Dunkirk
This is great storytelling, can you please upload the rest?
I respect the start of this so much because guy picked a song that was on a documentary about my friend and hero William Dunlop it was called remembering William
What were u doing at the age of 17 18 19? Absolute legends, Thank You... ✌️
We remember them best by both enjoying and respecting the peace and freedoms they gave so much for and ensuring we do not waste or lose either.
Decades ago I read a short story set in France of a regiment of British infantry desperately fighting in retreat to the coast.
The commanding officer strictly enforced his order that each man even though out of ammunition keep his rifle. He was regarded as mad by the men.
The regiment arrived at the coast, cut off from the beach by high cliffs.
The commander then had the men remove the bolts of the rifles and their slings, throwing the bolts into the sea, fashioning the slings into ropes for descent down the cliff to the beach and awaiting boats.
I now wonder if that short story was written to tell part of this history in a manner to evade the secrets act.
My grandfather was in the Black Watch and was evacuated from Dunkirk. I have never figured this out.
Each regiment had a number of battalions and they would have been spread into units what would be a mix of different regiment. My grandfather was in the Gordon Highlanders and was captures in Crete I believe, the Black Watch also fought in Crete. Its just British Army keeping things fresh by moving battalions about in peace time and when war starts you are where you are.
My late father in law was at St Valery. Dave was a great guy but he got angry when ever Dunkirk was glorified. He did not talk about it much but when he did the tales were ones of brutal betrayal and horrible details of the deaths of his pals. He used to say "covering the back sides of the English - again!"
My grandad was rescued from Dunkirk ❤️
My great great uncle was one of these men who were captured at Dunkirk and nearly lost a leg because of an artillery shell but thankfully it was saved by a German doctor, he escaped 3 times and on the third attempt he got away and walked to Portugal but had to go through Spain where he was beaten by police officers because they thought he was a spy ( after being beaten his ear turned purple, and his son has a purple ear) he went home and spent the remainder of the war as the quartermaster.
My great grandfather was a seaforth who was killed trying to make it to Dunkirk
Well done for remembering the sacrifice of the 51st.
But bloody Hell, ten minutes and THREE adverts, Guy must be short of a bob or two.
That's YT for you.
Just received my fathers army records and all it says about it is wounded in action 1940, he served from 1934 to 1945 and that's all about the action.
My Grandfather got out thank God.
When many thousands of British and French Troops were starting their retreat at Dunkirk, toward the end of April 1940, and after its completion, the BBC was lauding it as a Miracle... All was silent about the Scottish 51st Highland Division that had been left behind to halt Rommel, allowing that "miracle" to take place; they were left behind without food or ammunition.... those remaining, finally had to surrender at St, Valery on June 12th, 1940.
I was a wee boy seven years old when the telegram came, saying, my brother John, a Seaforth Highlander was missing, presumed dead, and indeed. my twenty-year-old brother; had been killed in action on June 8th. 1940. My beloved Wife Helen (also from Scotland) and I visited John's grave thirty years ago; that is how I know the date of his death.
I have been a United States Citizen for most of my life, and I look back with disgust, at how, Churchill's "sacrifice" of the 51st. Highland Division was never mentioned; as a matter of fact, it was covered up, like a cat covers up shit....
It's only in recent years, that what happened to the 51st., came slowly seeping to the surface.
Once again, the British high command sacrificing and forgetting his brave men.
Respect
My daddy John lynch and his brother billy Lynch . Were these soldiers.
7:35 - not this old chestnut again ! The French had held several 'War Games' over the ground of the Ardennes areas in the 1930's and there had been reports that warned the French Army Command which they chose to ignore that suggested that the terrain wasn't as 'anti-tank' as some supposed !
God bless the Jocks 💪🏴
Many British and French troops remained behind to ensure the evacuation of 330,000 others.
brave,brave men...never forget.
Not to forget their debut at El Alamein! Marvellous men
"Look oot the Jocks are coming" Thats definitely 1930's Sqaudy fae glesga for sure 😂🏴
Love from India guy Martin
These men truly where the greatest generation. We should never stop honoring their memory
I heard the Maginot Line was designed to slow the German advance, not to repulse it. From a Frenchman, mind!
3:35 it will be ended in Christmas, but not saying which year
I have just watched two of these that only tell part of the story?..Where's the continuation? ....
My Grandad was captured here, too. Put into a POW camp in France, force marched to Poland some time later, then finally ended up in Germany.
The Scottish mentality and toughness is beyond any other. Alba gu brath 🏴
My Grandad was in the RAF in the south after Dunkirk, he never talked about it all I know is an entry in his note book BEF the date and thats it. Always wonderd where he got the Europe star from. Sad to say all the stories and information is sadly lost as most of the old boys wont talk about it. Bit like his brother in the Irish Guards and being in Narvik never spoke about it.
I believe the were a large number support and transport troops (rail) trapped in southern area by the thrust thru the ardene and they tried to evacuate but got away on ships but were bombed or torpedoed and there is a plaque somewhere in a London to commerorate this tragic loss..
The RMS Lancastria. Carried all the rear echelon experts such as repair mechanics etc. Such a huge loss of life the documents are sealed for 100 years until 2040. Even with what has been estimated it makes the Titanic losses look tiny by comparison.
My uncle was in the 51st Seaforth hilanders that got captured there had to have support in his shoe as shot in back off foot
the left behinds are the french rear guard that fighted to the very end to allow the british troops to leave. see the comment of german commander. Filer à l'anglaise...
I think Churchill was a menace with no regard for troops or civilians and with a poor grasp of tactics.
Huhuuu guy mary
St Valery-en-Caux hasn't forgotten the 51st unlike Britain.
Black Watch is two words.
Does anyone have contact details for Don Smith? My Grandfather was one of the Sergeant Majors in the 4th Seaforths and 1 of only 12 from the battalion who made it back to the UK. I'd love to make contact with him
Hello John my late father was sergeant in the 1st battalion seaforth highlanders I would like to correspond further I have lots of photos
Will they be a second part?
It’s on all four link in description
@@jamesthurston1212 cheers I never looked 😂
Does anyone know if they mention the 51st Highland Division in the movie 'Dunkirk' from 2017? I haven't seen that movie yet.
I have watched it, (iMax version) but no, there wasn't any mention of the 51st Highland Division, unless it was merely in passing - a cursory nod.
It's a fantastic film, but without wanting to spoil it for you, it's completely centred on Dunkirk.
If you're in the UK, I believe it's part of the Christmas TV schedule, (possibly BBC..not certain) however I'd recommend watching it either alone or without distractions - it's not the kind of film you'd want to dip in and out of.
Dunkirk isn't a great film in my opinion, the black and white film made in the 1950s is far better, as is the documentary. The 51st Highland division wasn't mentioned, nor were the Norfolks in the massacre at Paradis. But hey it's just entertainment not a documentary.
@gadrian
The 50s B&W film is excellent, but it's very different, with more emphasis placed on the armada of small/civilian boats, while the modern version is entirely based in Dunkirk itself.
I was going to say in my original response that it should be treated as a piece of entertainment rather than a factual piece, but it felt kinda superfluous given that 99% of 'war movies' should be viewed as such, irrespective of how good they may be - even Saving Private Ryan, All Quiet on the Western Front, The Thin Red Line, Platoon, Das Boot, Full Metal Jacket, Flags of Our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima, We Were Soldiers and many more should be viewed as such, and they all have their critics...to varying degrees.
It's all entirely subjective of course, but I still thoroughly enjoyed Dunkirk...as much as you can enjoy a film with such heavy content.
@@ianmacfarlane1241 thank you for the information, I will try to watch it when the kids are not around ;)
@@gadrian58 thanks for the tip, I'll try to get a copy of the 50's version
SCOTS FIGHT ON!
If any nation deserves the title "Land of the free and home of the brave", it's Scotland
Many felt Churchill sacrificed the 51st.
It's a tremendous shame...there's hardly any 'Highland' content in this video. Which part of the Highlands did George Formby hail from?
The full documentary: Dunkirk: The Forgotten Heroes is free to watch on all4 here: czcams.com/users/redirect?event=video_description&v=H8mVANNcerQ&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbnBPOWtRRnB2NENxY1JITjY3VktVQS00NGNIUXxBQ3Jtc0trdlpvNlBqa3dxV1d4VF9aRjNOYlpjTkRIREI2SjMyTzZxMzdFV2RldF8wMTdxbS1oenZwcmFPODI5eWhVWjBaN3NZeG1jd19MT0Q3bk5NMEFiY1lON1RLNnBtRThQa2hfT3d2bDhVTldmZ3RJcm9jYw%3D%3D&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.channel4.com%2Fprogrammes%2Fdunkirk-the-forgotten-heroes
A Territorial Division not all Scottish the 7th Bn Royal Northumberland Fusileirs was a Machine gun unit from Ashington Alnwick Amble Morpeth all went into captivey
As a Texican,l know about the fight &evacuation of Dunkirk. But l never knew of this division being left behind. Educate me, all of these fellers were out of Scotland?
No the majority were but they had some English Artillery,Engineers and Signallers as well as Infantry from the Royal Norfolk’s,West Kent’s,and Sherwood Foresters with them .
They were basically sacrificed.
My grandad was caught at st valery ,Harold Bennett.
I suppose my dad was lucky he was badly wounded and shipped home before the surrender.
RIP Britain
Gianni.....italy....laif is good grandi eroi
i thank those man who saved germany from these bastards and i am soory for their loss
I didn't know they used VW people carriers on the battlefield back then, learn something new everyday aye
DON'T think any British troops should have been sent to france it was a forlorn hope .better back in blighty my heart goes out to the 51st
That's a very British thing to do.
Vielen Dank für die Jägermeister auf der Bemühungen haben.....
What about 1917
Oh the English. What did we expect.
That the Rifle Brigade would fight it out at Calais "for the sake of Allied unity" , it was tough all over mate .
lions led by donkeys
That good old 1960s comment that bares little resemblance to reality.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 i did my time! i know that youngsters full of fight will do almost anything because of what theyre told (ex army full screw 79-85 .... )
So, according to James Holland, the historian bloke, the Maginot line "covers the entire French and German border"; except of course, in reality, it does no such thing. There's a bloody great gap around the Ardennes region and the German Army, after creating a diversion in Belgium, quite simply walks straight through. Hardly rocket science, is it? And when the Germans do decide to walk through, via a 'side door', the French establishment panics and throws in the towel. Well at least the French did a great job shaving women's heads once the Germans eventually pulled out.
It does cover the entire french/german border so that statement isn't false. The maginot line was created to hold off a german attack and this task it had fulfilled completely. However the real problem with the maginot line is that it tied down a lot of troops but in the end was simply bypassed by the germans. Another thing is that it was politically impossible to extend the maginot line all the way to the coast with considering the relations to the belgians. In the end there are a lot of factors to be considered, the french/british war doctrine was still on the state of 1918 while the germans had developed and even tested their modern mobile war tactics in the poland campaign. The rush through the Ardennes was a huge gamble by the germans and quite a lot of things didn't went as planned. Also the rush to the coastline was born out of rommels self initiative while the german high command preferred a slower pace.
However the french high command completey failed to respond to the situation since their military mindset was completely off from reality. In fact they had no clue what was goin on and how to respond. And when they finally made a decision the plan was already obsolete since the situation has totally changed. Several counter attacks planned were not possible anymore or have not been performed with enough determination.
@@1987ZerO Well, I think it's a little disingenuous, or at the very least, you are relying on a 'technicality', to say the Maginot line covered the 'entire border'. By the same measure you could say that it also covered the border with Belgium, which in some respects it did. But in practice, that part of the French German border around the Ardennes was, for all practical purposes, 'open'. And I also don't believe it is correct to suggest the problem with the Line related to the number of troops required to man it. I think that's nonsense. The problem with the Maginot Line was that it was 'incomplete'. The Allied plan for the defense of France depended on their ability to 1) advance into Belgium to the Dyle River and 2) hold the German line of advance to a narrow front using the Maginot Line to prevent the Germans from executing an outflanking maneuver. That plan fell apart when the Germans advanced through the, essentially undefended Ardennes Forest, outflanked the Allied armies in Belgium and forcing a panic/retreat. And it needs to be remembered that the German assault through the Ardennes was a last minute improvisation. It was only considered when it became known that the German battle plans had fallen into French hands. Had the Ardennes been properly fortified, to the same standard as the rest of the Line, the Allied Plan may well have succeeded. It is worth while noting that the French weren't the only ones utilizing a fixed defensive line. The Germans also had a Maginot Line of their own, the so-called West Wall which although not as formidable as the Maginot Line, was good enough to stop the French advance into German during the Polish Campaign.
@@haroldgodwinson832 The amount of troops assigned to the maginot line was quite substantial. Those troops turned out to be useless after the German breakthrough. I agree with you that the maginot line wasn’t finished in the sense of complete coverage but you need to consider the time period in which it was built and more importantly by the experiences of WW1.
Also the natural barrier which the Ardennes provide is quite substantial. A attack through it was very much a gamble. After the Ardennes the Germans also had to cross the Maas river which by itself is also quite an difficult task. The french put on quite a fight there and only with the help of Stuka dive bombers they could be overwhelmed quickly enough. With “traditional” tactics the Germans wouldn’t be able to push through that quickly.
To quote von Moltke “no plan survives the first enemy contact”. The french had no mobile reserves, no backup positions or even more important a quick and effective line of command. Even after the breakthrough in the Ardennes there was still a very real change to contain it but yet again the french doctrine of WW1 turned out to be obsolete and inflexible.
The German west wall defences were mostly hold together by propaganda. If the allies had attacked straight away the Germans would have had almost nothing to counter. You can say about Hitler what you want but in terms of propaganda and handling the British and french in the late 30’s he really knew what he was doin.
@@1987ZerO The French didn't lose the Battle of France because they ran out of men. They had plenty of men and any amount of modern war-fighting equipment. In fact, they had more tanks and aircraft than the Germans and in the case of tanks, significantly better ones. Had the French actually used their tanks and aircraft against the strung-out German supply columns snaking through the Ardennes they would likely have stopped them 'in their tracks'. But they didn't. They dithered, then lost their nerve entirely and collapsed - from the top down. In essence, the French made the same mistake as the Poles. In an effort to conserve their forces they failed to commit enough of their offensive weaponry to the fight during the initial stages of the German onslaught. By the time the French began to wake up, it was too late. There was nothing particularly special about the manner of the German attack either; despite what we are told. They used the same combined arms tactics that they and the British had developed in WW 1. The real difference between the Allies and the Germans was the military chain of command and the defeatist attitude of the French civil and military authorities. And finally, I should just mention that the French did attack into Germany during the Polish Campaign but were essentially stopped cold by the depth of the German minefields along the West Wall. Not the most convincing excuse in the world but it's the one they decided to settle on.
The French did not extend the Maginot Line to the English Channel due to French strategy that envisioned a move into Belgium to counter a German assault. Also during the initial German offence in WW1 the Germans already launched an attack through the Ardennes called "Schlieffen Plan".