EDMUND FITZGERALD, GRAVESITE or EXPLORATION SITE? With CAPT. DARRELL...To DIVE or NOT To DIVE
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2023
- The History Mystery Man wraps up his 2022-23 Great Lakes Maritime coverage with Captain Darrell Walton on some final thoughts on the Edmund Fitzgerald. The Canadian government has ruled that the wreck site should remain a memorial gravesite, untouched by human exploration going forward. What do you think? Should it be permissible to dive on the Fitzgerald to attempt to uncover more secrets or should it be permanently left alone as a hallowed gravesite? Captain Darrell answers that question and explains why. Thanks for all your support...enjoy! #HistoryMysteryMan #EdmundFitzgerald #GreatLakes #Shipwrecks #CaptainMcSorley
Yup, Captain Darrell seys, "Get the Log Book", it seems some people higher up dont want the true facts to come to lite.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here...HMM
I agree with Captain Darrell that it would be good if they could get the log book from the edmund fitzgerald.
Pay me, I will go get that log book. Get me all the diving gear I need.
Im genuinely surprised no one hasn't yet.
Always makes for a great day when there’s a new History Mystery video with Captain Darrell!
I'm loving this one! Thanks again, Todd...HMM
I can understand the families wanting it to be a gravesite secured with no diving, but I feel like the sailors would want their story told. What a story the logbooks would tell.
Interesting thoughts. How bout we go get the log book, then leave them alone for good to rest in peace. Thanks again, Josh...HMM
I firmly believe it's a grave site and it should not be disturbed.
@@mickeysm64 I'm with you on this. Thanks for writing in...HMM
@@mickeysm64 Yes...and we are never definitively going to know what happened for sure anyway, no matter how many times we dive on the Mighty Fitz...thanks! HMM
Honestly as long as they don't take anything from the Fitz I think they should be able to dive. The biggest problem with tragedies later in life is forgetting them, doing dives to the Fitz for a little while she actually gets to see some kind of light again.
i even said to ric mixter, the expert, you need to speak to captain darrell walton , this man knows what he's talking about.
I'd like to interview Ric Mixter...to get his angle on it. Thanks Craig. HMM
I should be both. Honored as a gravesite, but not off limits to research of diving to find out more.
Understood. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here! HMM
There are 3 Great Lakes ship wrecks that I would think could be made into pretty fascinating movies (at least that I am familiar). The Fitzgerald, Daniel J Morrell, and the Carl D Bradley. I hope one day we get a movie about something concerning the great lakes.........some of the stories are incredible.
I'm all for seeing those movies. Thanks again! HMM
Another interesting interview with Captain Darrell Walton. Our favorite captain. I agree with the captain. Let's retrieve the Fitz's log . I think they can be respectful and do it . Thanks again, Don
You're always welcome Steve...thanks again! HMM
I would agree, getting the logbook would be an acceptable reasonable thing to do, respectful, and purposeful visiting only.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here, James. HMM
Let’s go! Darrel is a treasure
Captain Darrell rocks! Thanks...HMM
Capt Darrell is pure gold. I'm not a nautical person but I could listen to the pair of you discussing the Great Lakes all day long. The families are not in favour of any more dives to the Edmund Fitzgerald and I think a small part of that maybe because no one wants to find definitive proof that their relative was in some way, large or small, to blame for the sinking.
As for Old Whitey, if I was him, I would find it sort of comforting that I hadn't been forgotten so maybe he feels the same.
On the subject of visiting your loved ones in a grave yard, that's fine to go and stand by their graves and lay flowers and I think the same is true of the Fitzgerald. As long as the expeditions show respect and don't go about prodding the dead bodies then a visitation to the wreck would be like standing graveside. I agree that the ship's log should be retrieved as it may well shed some light on the cause of such a tragic loss.
I think, having listened to an array of arguments, that it was a combination of many factors that lead to the Fitz's demise, but I do think a major factor was that the ship was overloaded and the hull poorly maintained over the years.
Thank you for these fascinating and enthralling videos.
You're so welcome; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Your ideas make a lot of sense. Thanks for watching, Bob! HMM
LOVE These. Captain Darrell is a treasure. I could listen to him on this subject all day. GET YOUR OWN CHANNEL, SIR!
TY History Mystery Man
Amen! I could listen to Captain Darryl for hours! . A treasure is exactly right. A true 'hail fellow well met'!
You're welcome! I have encouraged Capt. Darrell that he should consider getting his own channel. However, to do this right, one must be committed to 10 hours a day every day...huge sacrifice there. Thanks again...HMM
It’s been a year!!!! Let’s get the captain and the lakes going again! I have to keep rewatching the series because I’m drooling for more!
We've been talking on the phone. We need to start putting some plans together. Thanks again...HMM
The Fitz is the ONLY ship in the Great Lakes that can't be dived on for a reason... get the logbook! The logbook might have been recovered and that's why it was suggested to the families to push to make it a gravesite, to deter diving. If the families could be screwed out of more substantial survivor benefits, they would do whatever was necessary! I think there were a number of palms greased to keep people silent. Imagine if it were disclosed that they already have the logbook!!!!!!!!!!!
I had never thought about the logbook till Darrell brought it to my attention. Thanks for watching! HMM
You make a very good point and I never thought of that. That could very well be the reason they don't want divers going there, they potentially could discover the log books are long gone.
Great discussion today. They definitely need to go back and get those log books.
Thanks for watching, Mark! HMM
I wish they would let Discovery Channel document the History of the Edmund Fitzgerald
I'd sure be first in line to watch that one...thanks! HMM
I think the History channel had a pretty good documentary on it if I’m remembering correctly
Discovery did a documentary in the 90s about the Fitzgerald it should be on here.
Please have more videos of Captain Darrel telling stories of Great Lakes ships. CYPRUS would be a good story to hear.
Great idea...thanks for watching! HMM
Didn't know Mcsorley was from ogdensburg. Grew up just out side of massena and watched many a ship go up and down the river. Never get sick of these videos!
Thanks! I spent an entire winter in Ogdensburg...with a dredging operation on the St. Lawrence Seaway. Lived above Nig's Tavern on State Street. HMM
I didn't want the conversation to end! Thanks to Captain Darrell for the insights and opinions .
Thank you for another video that leaves me wanting more!
We visit gravesites to honor and remember the life and memory of those who went before us .
Be SAFE Captain love what you do
Thanks Andrew! HMM
Thanks Robert. As one of my longtime viewers, your support is always appreciated. HMM
Really appreciate this Great" four part " series. With Capt Darrel.
God bless.
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan thank you
Super interesting been a certified welder for three decades now sounds like metal fatigue.
like the old timer was saying awesome ship try to find men that brave today. Much respect for the crew!
Good answer Mr obvious
Thanks for remembering the men of the Mighty Fitz! HM
Don and Darrell thanks for another great video guys! Have a wonderful day. Brian
You're always welcome Brian...thanks again! HMM
Thanks for another great video. And please thank Captain Darrell too.
I certainly will, and thanks again Roger. HMM
Capt Darrel your the man! Thanks for sharing your experiences
Thanks for watching Billy! HMM
Fascinating interviews with Captain Darrell.
So many thanks! HMM
You guys make my hair stand on end. Was in the Navy for four years during Vietnam. Ancient Destroyer 1943 vintage. She was rusty and worn out. We rode out some storms the likes of which I've never seen. She would roll over at 56 degrees. We were routinely seeing 53 degree rolls. I'll never forget it, and when I talk, read, or listen about the Edmund Fitzgerald, sometimes I can't sleep at night. Wonderful presentation from both of you. Thanks for doing this History Mystery Man. You do it well.
Thank you sir...so appreciated. Thanks for your service during Vietnam. You guys never got the reception you deserved when you got home. Much respect...and thanks for watching. HMM
I second that,
WELCOME HOME.
Great conversation thank you
You're welcome Matt...thanks for watching...HMM
I enjoy listening to Captain Darrell explain things. He's so knowledgeable
Thanks for listening! Stop by anytime...HMM
Thanks for a great series. Maybe the right thing to allow is only limited professional dives.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here! HMM
I agree with him 100% we should be able to dive it again and find the logbook. If we can dive the ss kamloops with its crew still floating around in there with no problem, and im sure there's hundreds of other ships down there with their crew still there, then why not the fitzgerald?? No disrespect to the families, like he said but, it should be allowed. Love the video!
Thanks for watching! And thanks for sharing your thoughts here! HMM
Do you think the log books would have survived being under water 45 years?
WOW!! Another "out of the park" grand slam video! It seems the more I learn about this thru you & (especially) Captain Darrell, the more I realize how much I don't know, about this and, other sinkings on the Great Lakes. I'm sure I speak for other "land-lubbers" like myself when I say...."it is truly fascinating listening to all of this"! If you guys ever put together a presentation, I would most definitely like to attend.
Thanks again, rav. I'll have to talk with Capt. Darrell about a possible presentation. Thanks for watching...HMM
Captain Darrell is so interesting and he's a born story teller. I LOVE his interview. I've lived forever in the northern Chicago suburbs on the shore of Lake Michigan & I've been fascinated by the great lakes since I'm a kid. Thank you for the video and please bring Captain Darrell back again!
Thanks Kasey...so appreciated! Yep...Capt. Darrell and I are working on season 3 as I speak. Stop by anytime...HMM
in time, the truth will always come out. even today still the company or companies want the truth covered up so no liabilaty can be neld against anybody today, remember what the coast guard said originally, ' the crew didn't dog down the hatches', what an insult !!! ignorance on the coast guard and mostly on the company to push the point of making money !!
I have really enjoyed Captain Darrell! His articulations and real experiences of being on a boat. In the episode in which he talked about picking up rivets that had popped out, man, that sent a chill down my spine.
Thanks...I know that Capt. Darrell appreciates it...and thanks for taking the time to watch! HMM
I never knew this about Jack Mccarthy and him running aground in Sandusky Bay. My dad kept our boat at Cedar Point for many years and I'm well familiar w/the sandbar where McCarthy likely ran aground.
I wasn't aware about this either...thanks for watching. HMM
Great information, well done. I have to agree it brings one much closer to reality when a photo accompanies a name.
So true...and thanks for watching! HMM
Once again…thank you HMM & Captain Darrell. 👍🏻💪🏻✌🏻
You're always welcome. Thanks again for watching. HMM
I just think somebody knows something and they don't want it to come back to bite them in the aft end.
Ha! The "aft end"... love that. Thanks for watching, Travis. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan just got to get creative with your sensorship some times
@@TravisMSimpson Love it! HMM
McSorely was born in Spencerville, huh? An old roomie of mine from university grew up in the bit of 'middle of nowhere' between Spencerville and Perth, and her mum has always been something of a local historian. (As well as being the sort of woman who will shout the local bears out of the trash while waving a hockey stick at them! 🤣)
She might know something about the background of the McSorely family - I'll ask the next time I'm up that way.
That would be great; I appreciate your help! Sound his mum would be a great story in herself. Thanks for watching! HMM
Always look forward to your videos Lurn so much about the History always respectfully done Cap Walton is amazing hang on every word 💟
Thanks Mary...so appreciated. HMM
I was 10 years old when the Fitzgerald sank in November 1975. My fascination with it's mystery and with Great Lakes Maritime History in general began then and was something that my brother and I grew to share over our lives.
I'm with you Sandy...I can't get enough of the Mighty Fitz and Great Lakes Maritime stories in general. Thanks for watching! HMM
Wow, Another amazing video! Very interesting about McCarthy. I believe in my mind the Fitz bottomed out like captain cooper said and the reason you can’t find any evidence of that is because that whole area where she was damaged is completely destroyed from being broken in half. I like captain Darrells thought on the log book, but there is also a lot of mourning and emotions with those family members, which is very understandable. It’s a tough deal there for sure. Thanks again for sharing!
Thanks again Daniel...appreciate you sharing your thoughts here. Tough subject for sure. HMM
I don't want to cross a line and be disrespectful, but I remember they did find one crew member of the Fitzgerald lying on the lake bed by the starboard bow section . Correct me if I'm wrong ,but a picture of him was in a book written about the Fitzgerald . I remember seeing a photograph of what was supposed to be the Fitzgerald crew member . I remember what he was wearing , and so on . Anyway, it's not any different than the crew member Captain Darrell Walton spoke about of the earlier ship wreck . All due respect to the families and crew of the Fitzgerald. Let's get the Fitzgeralds log .
Interesting thoughts. I'd be ok with getting the log book. Outside of that, I'd say leave the memorial site alone. Thanks again, Steve! HMM
Thank you HMM! This has been an outstanding series, and I know you will come up with somemore intrestting stories about the Fitz.
Can't wait for November!!
I agree with the captain, get the log book.
Thank you again.
Thanks Roger. Appreciate your support over the last few years! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan you're very welcome Don.
Another outstanding video! Thank you for making this.
You're always welcome...thanks again! HMM
I love Captain Darrell’s commentary! I also love your channel! Also where is the ring on the Kamloops body?
Thanks...so appreciated. The ring is not visible in that photo, but it's widely known because it's been seen on dives. HMM
Usually, disasters are caused by numerous causes all working in concert. I don't think the Fitz is an exception. I doubt further examination of the wreck would be greatly revealing. As Capt Darrell has said, these boats were worked hard, and heavily stressed. Great video and discussion.
Thanks again, Michael...I appreciate all your contributions here on the chat. I appreciate your support; stop by anytime. HMM
I enjoyed your stories of Edmund Fitzgerald
Thanks Allen...so appreciated. HMM
Log book would tell lot of what was goingbon that night
Loved this interview but now I really want to see the logs. Fascinating video
I'll buy that one...bring up the lop book, then leave it alone. Thanks Peggy...HMM
ICE on the bow....you nailed it.....what a great video again,,,,your both LEGENDS ! cheers! Finnster
Thanks Finnster! HMM
I sang as one of the Three Sisters in the play Ten November in Nov 1995. Haunting music and the story of the men, ship, family and Lake Superior has never left. I appreciated seeing the pictures as we read their names at the end of the play. thanks for the work you do keeping their memory alive.
If that play was at Bowling Green State University, I and my brother Tom were in the audience. Well done!
Thanks for this series, I enjoy your conversations with Capt Darrell
Thanks again...so appreciated. HMM
“When I was 14 my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand him. But when I turned 21, I was astonished by how much he matured in 7 years” Mark Twain
Love me some Twain! "Go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company."
Thank you for another excelent video. We all have our thoughts on diving the wreck, I say leave things as are.. weather forecasting is better, mapping is better, let's hope nothing like this happens again.
I'll but that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
I love this series. Thanks for your hard work and helping us understand the Great Lakes and The Fitz
You're welcome! Thanks for watching...HMM
Great point on the log book. Unfortunately after so many years, if they were to find it, would it be intack enough to read?
That's a very good question. Some of the comments on here suggest that it would no longer be legible. Thanks Mike, for watching...HMM
They brought up the log book from the Morrell, and from what I understand, they were able to preserve it.
@@darrellwalton938 I now wonder if this idea was ever discussed with the Canadian government, back when they explored the wreck? Seems this would have been as important as a "Black Box" is to investigating plane crashes?
@@darrellwalton938I find all of this fascinating. I was ten when this happened. The haunting song from Mr. Lightfoot got me very interested. As far as I am concerned Captain Cooper's account and your insight and knowledge has solved the mystery of what caused the Fitz to sink and the suddenness of it. The mystery to me are the conclusions of the Coast Guard and other dives and investigations. It is obvious the company wants to imply that the crew and Captain are somehow to blame for the tragedy. The pride and admiration for this ship attracted top notch personnel. Who set up the schedules to run this ship overloaded time and time again to break records and make as many trips as possible? To make every dollar possible? Upper management! Then when a catastrophe happens, the crap rolls straight downhill. Welcome to the American way.
I also think the company has done and is doing everything it can to cover its behind. The red paint on the shoal rocks controversy. The grave sight controversy. I can understand the families position. But why wasn't the logbook retrieved on these previous expeditions? I can see why you guys would smell a rat.
@Darrel Walton your more of a sailor than most of us squids
Another great video and thanks for sharing a little more of your GL experiences. When I saw the Hannah pic I thought I’m pretty sure I used to see their tugs pushing barges on the Cal-Sag Channel and Chicago Sanitary & Ship Canal (ex and I were recreational boaters) so I googled and sure enough 👍🏻. And new learned fact (to me) that actress Daryl Hannah was born in Chicago and her father was the owner. Combine all that with Captain Darrell and the Fitz, blockbuster video for me! Thanks again!
Thanks...your kind words are sooo appreciated. I spent a lot of time on the James A. in Chicago. Yep...Daryl's dad was Donald Hannah. I also worked on both the Daryl C. Hannah and the Donald Hannah. Thanks again for watching! HMM
Took on water ( list and fence rails down ) 3 sisters waves from the rear lifted her stern ,weight shifted forward drove the bow into the bottom , the impact then broke the stern off and flipped and landed upside down . Just my 2 cents !
I'd say your "2 cents" make pretty good sense; thanks for sharing your thoughts here! HMM
I personally think you are right on money!! Prayers for their families and their souls.
Nice video! You guys bring up 2 key points. Ice buildup on the ship which in turn could have been a major contributing factor. I'm sure that log book would tell a lot. Second thing is did the Anderson report much icing during that storm? I'm never one to trust a government agency haha but seems like the coast guard has their theory and regardless to the other key elements of that evening or even the intelligence of guys like Darrell they are stuck in their ways of what they think happened. I wonder in the almost 50 years she has been on the bottom of Superior would the log book even be preserved enough to gather any clues?
Thanks Gerald...so appreciated. That's a good question on whether the Anderson was loaded up with ice or not...be interesting to find out that answer, if the info is still available. In regards to the log book, the Morrell's was preserved after staying down there for decades. And...the Fitz is in colder/deeper water, which I believe would help the preservation process. Thanks again...HMM
I never realized the connection to Ogdensburg. That’s where my father grew up.
I spent a winter in Ogdensburg one year...dredging on the St. Lawrence Seaway. Lived above Nig's Tavern. Thanks for watching...HMM
Great...the dynamic duo are back.Just got done work,the Eagles are gonna win the super bowl(I'm outside of Philadelphia).Let's do this boys
Hey John Pistilli How boutThose Chiefs?
How bout those CHIEFFFS?
@@andrewnorris1514 yes great game,alot of fun
I wish the Eagles would have won the Super Bowl. I thought the holding call at the end was bogus, which changed the outcome of the game. Love Philly! Have spent a lot of time over there. Thanks for watching! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan was hard to believe he called that,I'm not a conspiracy guy but it does seem now that the Chiefs get the same calls the Pats would get.Thank you yes Philadelphia is a wonderful place,I've been all over the country as you have but this is home.
Awesome series on the wreck of the Fitz I'm fascinated by this fateful story & as a guitarist have learned to play the ballad. Capt Darrell knows what he's talking about.👍
If you're able to record your guitar version of the song, I'll use it on my next videos about the Mighty Fitz...thanks! HMM
Got a couple of renditions of the Gordon Lightfoot ballad on my channel not studio quality just me in my trophy room where I'm a rock star.🤩@@HistoryMysteryMan
I'm not concerned about 'studio quality'...I'd take what I could get...the trophy room would work for me...thanks.@@sikohki_7
I believe at this point in time, leave the Fitzgerald as an honored gravesite. The bones of the deceased crew probably have deteriorated by time and water. The log book, I agree, would be great to have in the archives. But if the log book was found, wouldn't it have disintegrated by now? Excellent point, HMM, about the weight of ice on the ship . . .
Thanks for sharing your respectful thoughts here. And thanks again for watching! HMM
that deep in Lake Superior, remains are likely still largely intact. The 1994 Shannon expedition discovered a body of a crewman on the lake floor next to the wreck. There are likely more inside. There are other older wrecks with adipocere remains visible to divers. Shannon intended to include the images of the body in his book. Video footage of the remains was released. That’s what pushed the families to ask the Canadian government to restrict the wreck. Maybe when the generation whose fathers were lost has passed away, but this is just prurient curiosity.
@@lauracarrolldebolt9233 Super interesting...thanks for that info! HMM
These interviews with Mr. Walton are fantastic. Lots of great information that he has shared. I certainly hope to see more interviews come next November and December.
11:42 I think that's the first "recent" photo I've seen of George Holl. The only other picture I've seen of him was from when he was in his 30's or so, which is the picture most people and documentaries use when talking about the Fitz.
As far as the question of diving back down on the Fitz, I tend to agree with Mr. Walton that if a log book is there that could shed more light on what was going on, I think it would be reasonable to go get it. I know one body was discovered by accident in (1994?) on the lake bed just off the bow, so I don't know if there would be any of the crew still in the Pilot house or not. I know Darrell at one point said he suspects the most guys in the Pilot house were knocked down the stairwell I think he said? I've never seen the inside of a lake freighter, so I don't know what the layout looks like or where a stairwell would be in relation to where the on duty crew would be. So whether or not another body or bodies might be seen if they go into the Pilot house is a mystery. If hypothetically they did go retrieve the log book, I would think it either: Wouldn't be filmed - or - Would be filmed, but no footage would be released... *Especially* if there were more remains spotted. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for sharing your super interesting thoughts here! I'd be ok with getting the log book...that's something I had never considered before Capt. Darrell brought it to our attention. I would say the majority of the crew is interred in their bunks/cabins where they were most likely ordered to stay as the day/night worsened. But you would be correct to assume that the crew members who were in the pilot house were thrust back down the stairway, and are now free-floating in the hallways that lead to individual cabins. I'm certain the men in the stern section are tucked away in their cabins. Thanks for watching! HMM
Obviously a touchy subject….my feelings are this, for whatever it’s worth….
The wrecksite has NOT been thoroughly mapped, much less investigated. The clues as to what truly happened ARE there, it just needs a crew willing to go in with an objective mind and willingness to pursue the truth, whatever it is.
As far as the crewmen, their remains absolutely SHOULD remain undisturbed, in addition to any artifacts….nothing other than physical evidence relative to an investigation.
I truly feel a LOT was swept under the rug, be it to protect Oglebay-Norton/Columbia Transportation, the U.S. Coast Guard, OR the 29 men that went down with the Fitz, may they rest in peace.
Man is not infallible, be it them, or most certainly not myself….but we LEARN from our mistakes when we recognize them in full.
Even if it reveals that mistakes were made by seasoned sailors….
Don, I truly do respect and appreciate what yourself and Capt. Walton have done over the course of the series of these video sessions…. I hope that this is not the end.
Heck no! We're just getting started...already talking about next year. Thanks again, for sharing your thoughts here. I like your thinking on the entire subject. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan glad to hear!
Now, time to gear up for the impending racing season….looking forward to your other varied content!
@@bowslap On the way! Thanks again...HMM
I enjoy watching captain talk about the fitzgerald my grandfather moved to Rodger City Michigan from Canada when he was young he spent time on boats he spent time the original CarlDBradley not the one who sunk he knew many of the sailors that lost their lives when the Bradley went down in lake Michigan
That's very interesting; thanks for sharing your stories here, Phillip. HMM
Another excellent documentary Don, you guys could discuss the Fitz forever more and it will never get old.
I wonder what condition the log book is in now after being down there so long, would it be possible to find?
By the way, it would be interesting to hear more about that tug boat you worked on if you have many photos or footage on hand.
Thanks for the video, Keep them coming 👍
Thanks again, William. Not sure on the condition of the Fitz's log book, although the Morrell's log book was in good shape after staying down there for decades. I worked on several different Tugs over the years; I'm currently looking for photos. Unfortunately, in the 70s and 80s, I wasn't mindful of preserving my time on the Great Lakes. HMM
Thank you good man!!!!
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
Captains, thank you for a very, very great video series. I found every minute facinating to watch and ponder. You both brought so much to the table.
Personally I think it sank due to water getting in the hatches. Basically I agree with the Coast Guard findings. I also think the wreck site should remain off limits for the rest of internity. Even if we know the exact cause, I don't believe it would change anything for future Great Lakes shipping. Being organic in nature and not stone tablets, the Fitz log book/s would not be readable. They'd be totally dissolved after all these years.
Today's ships are extremely well engineered and constructed. Our navigation and weather forcasting are both outstanding. And I believe today's shipping companies are so much more cautious and conservative in their routes and journeys. Safety is paramount these days.
Thanks again Don and Darrell. You guys are great. Already looking forward to next Fall and another ship video series.
Thanks Chuck! You make some good points here. But, we're never going to know anyway so maybe it's time to give up the idea of exploration on the Fitz. My mind can certainly be changed in regards to how it went down...I remain open on the subject. Someone in the know will have to explain why two ballast tank vent covers popped and why the fence rail broke. It takes great force to pop a vent cover top off...sure leads to water coming in. But, I'm not ruling out hatch covers as a possibility. Right now, I lean toward water coming in from the bottom, if not from grounding, then from welds that were tearing apart. Thanks...see you at the track! HMM
I say research site. My view, we still don't know exactly what happened. If we can find out... Future tragedies can be averted.
It should be open to family members & researchers ONLY.
They don't want research done on it, because they don't want people to find out what actually happened, and prove the company at fault.
@@79rustyk10 Yes, the investigation felt like a whitewash. Generally, investigations ARE white-washes when they're run by the same authorities who were SUPPOSED TO CREATE RULES AND ENFORCE THEM TO STOP ACCIDENTS in the first place!!!! The relatively quick mothballing and later scrapping of the Fitz's sister ship, Arthur B. Homer, also seemed to be an attempt to dodge responsibility. That ship had its share of maintenance and operational issues. I'm amazed the Coast Guard never seriously examined that ship for potential issues. Heck, the authorities were booted off the Homer in 1978 when they tried to board it! Makes you wonder who was really running the show on the Great Lakes when shipping was a factor!
All the legal entanglements and the issues with the victims' families basically derailed any push to truly find out what happened. It's unfortunate but I do believe actions by the families of victims have unwittingly played into the hands of authorities wishing to maintain a cover-up and possibilities of insurance pay-outs to victims' families. I understand people want to move on with their lives but they unconsciously ensured that the irresponsible parties got away with the situation that led to this ship's loss.
The Fitzgerald may already be too far gone for any final answers. The sonar scan of the wreck from 2002 that's viewable online shows that the cargo bay hatches collapsed to the floor/keel already! The walls of the hull itself (in the bow section) looks to be peeling outward. The pilot house looked like it was still intact. The condition of the pilot house now? Who knows! Nobody's been to the wreck since 1995 --- LEGALLY.
The Fitz is disintegrating faster than the Titanic despite being in shallower freshwater! Goes to show you never know how ships will deteriorate until after they've sunk. The deterioration depends on how well they're built, the extent of damage done during sinking, and the chemistry and wildlife of the area. Electrochemical activity still goes on with metal no matter what water it rests in. Metal deteriorates in saltwater faster because of the extra corrosive factor of the salt. Fitzgerald was showing very clear signs of rust and sealife attaching itself to the hull in the mid-1990s. It was hardly pristine.
What condition is the Fitz wreck in 20+ years later? I don't know! No formal, authorized expedition has been done since 1995. There are rumors and stories of people peeking on the wreck with sonar fishes but nobody wants to take the chance of being fined by the Canadian government so nobody posts the newer sonar images online. I doubt anyone since the Navy fellow and his friend dived on the Fitz in 1995 has been on the site in person. It's too deep and the water is cold. Also, I don't know about you but 3+ hrs decompression for 10-15 minutes bottom time doesn't seem worth the effort and risk! You explore wrecks with camera sleds and a minisub if it's an option. It's hazardous enough but those options have to be much safer than scuba-diving and hard suits!
I think that it should be searched for any logs or records and anything that could help to prove what might’ve happened, but let it be done by professionals and government officials. Then leave the site in peace and recognized as a grave.
Makes good sense; thanks for your input. HMM
Gentlemen - another excellent video. Has anyone officially explored the inside of the Fitz? They are always around the pilothouse, but never go inside it seems..
Thanks for your support. To my knowledge, no one has gone inside the Fitz...just looking through port holes and pilot house openings. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryManthank you - that’s what I figured. We could learn a lot of valuable info if it was possible..
While sympathetic to the families, the truth has to come out.
In my estimation, the logbook has to be sought. Additionally, there is no need to go into the cabins or anything not directly related to the cause of the disaster.
There are a lot of allegations about negligence and misuse of the ship (mostly driven by management) so I can imagine the companies involved were quite happy to keep as many facts obscured.
I really feel Captain Darrell has the best overall assessment and is correct about what should be done while retaining respect for the dead...
Interesting perspective; thanks for sharing your thoughts here...and thanks for watching. HMM
As you know I feel the same way as all your other watchers, love these videos and hate to see the series come to a close, but I have a feeling there will be more next season not to mention other content. Thanks once again to you both, heading to Duluth this year?
I would love to go to Duluth! Capt. Darrell and I are already talking about next season. Thanks again...for watching! HMM
As much as the story fascinates me, if the families can’t easily visit their families gravesite, then I don’t think anyone else has any real business doing so either.
I don’t think there’s anything they’re going to be able to find on the wreck to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened, and in the end, it might not really matter.
The guys are still down there, and many of their families still grieve today. I don’t think you’re going to be able to keep people from taking videos and pictures either, and the potential for one of the victims to be found and photographed might be distressing for the surviving family members. The Fitzgerald wreck site is definitely hallowed ground in my opinion.
Well said; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Outside of getting the log book, I would say leave the memorial site alone. HMM
Hmmm…
I say leave the men and the wreck alone. The bottom of the stern didn’t show any signs of grounding from the shoals, you have another 10-15ft of the bow section that’s entrenched in the lake bottom, so as for new clues being discovered, I’d highly doubt finding any. That missing middle piece is key though, but there were just a lot of factors that happened when it went down. We’ll never know…
For those that would want to go inside the bow and stern (only the engine room being accessible), you got to have balls of freakin’ steel. The thought of stumbling upon any of those sailor’s remains is nightmare fuel. And a few of those men still have immediate family and even other family members still living. Leave them be🙏🏾
I think any evidence of a grounding or even briefly touching around Caribou Shoals was amidships and disintegrated when the midsection of the boat ripped apart and I have to agree with you about the crew, there’s no way IMO some of those poor guys weren’t killed by sheer blunt force trauma when they were thrown about as the ship sank, there’s nothing to gain by seeing them mangled
Thanks...your thoughts are appreciated here. Whether we ever dive again on the site or not, it's my opinion that we will definitively never know what happened. That said, probably best to leave the site alone. Maybe go get the log book, but that's as far as I'd go. Thanks for watching...HMM
Agree leave as a gravesite but get the log book , great interview and series
Thanks...greatly appreciated! HMM
I wonder, have they ever done a scan and/or search at caribou shoals to see if there was any evidence of the Fitz bottoming out in that area? I know it’s a large area, but they have the technology now. Just a thought. I’m an aviator, not a sailor so I apologize for any ignorance. 😊
I don’t know if it’s possible but I’ve always wondered if a LiDAR scan of the Fitzgerald site would yield any new information but your take on Caribou Shoals is a very good point
I thought they sent divers down to Caribou Shoals shortly after, and they didn’t see any scrapes or chips in any of the rocks or any paint smears🤔 swore I remember hearing someone say that…
Also, I remember there being a small uproar maybe back in ‘02 of the GLSHS doing a sonar scan of the wreck, and the cargo holds, hatches, and the sides of the hull on the bow section had collapsed. With it being 20+ years later, there’s no telling what has happened to the rest of it…
@@SuperbBossD An independent survey of Caribou Shoals did in fact show damage to the rocks, with bottom paint on them. I talked to crewman on that survey!
@@harpman6766 I remember I heard Ric Mixter make the claim that they didn’t in one of the many videos of his. If that isn’t the case and they actually did, but didn’t see any scraping on the keel of the stern, you think that missing 200ft of the middle section and part of the bow might have took all of the damage from the shoals then🤔
Aviators always welcome here...thanks for your thoughts! I believe there have been some dives on the Caribou Shoal area, but I'll see if can get to the bottom of it (no pun intended). Ever heard of the amazing aviator Ruth Nichols? Thanks for watching...HMM
I think it should be dived on without disturbing anything. It needs to be checked thoroughly
Understood; thanks Roger, for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
I agree get the log book thst will slove the mystery
Mcsorley, Cooper and both crews of both ships, legends forever and never forgotten. My hairdresser grew up with Deckhand Bruce Hudson who went down on the Fitzgerald. Everyone is obsessed with the Titanic I'm on team Fitzgerald.
The story of the Mighty Fitz is beyond amazing; thanks for watching...HMM
Log book would answer lot of questions I can almost read what it going say in my head
It certainly would be interesting to read...HMM
Gravesites all across the world are desecrated by for a lot of reasons, usually academic. So the Big Fitz should be no exception/s
Understood; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Love all these editions with Captain Darrell. I know nothing of sailing and have what is probably a stupid question.
It seems unfathomable to me that 200 feet of a ship is missing.
Is there any possibility the Fitzgerald broke up in thirds?
I'd say the answer is no. The debris field is such that it would constitute the missing piece. If there was a third larger piece intact, it would have been located by now. Thanks for watching...HMM
If it’s a gravesite, then why wouldn’t every other shipwreck be a gravesite too? That’s my only question about that
Good question...wish I had an answer. Thanks again...HMM
Loving these videos!!!! I just need to know what that I for song is, I can’t get over it. Keep up the great content and god bless
So many thanks! HMM
I see pilot house door open so I'm thinking somebody was trying get out at that time
10-4...and that pilot house door remains dogged open yet today. Sounds like someone wanted an escape route, which of course did no good, but you can't blame them for trying...thanks. HMM
I believe the Government is merely honouring the wishes of the families who made it clear to the last dive team who dove to the wreck site it would be the last time.
That makes sense to me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
The Anderson Captain mentioned nothing about Ice on his ship in any interview I saw. I think he would have figured it in to his story about that night. If the Fitz was icing up so was the Anderson.
Understood...thanks! HMM
Should be a training site for recovery operations and scientific and recording site. No body recording allowed unless for research and documentation and the families and country own footage with no public release. If otherwise recorded that portion should be removed. Maybe after 100 years or so then maybe loosening restrictions on site!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here, Larry...HMM
We can recover a Japanese ship with victims aboard at sea but cannot recover a freighter with my Uncle & 28 other souls aboard in shallow waters ? ? ?
cool channel mate
Thanks Mate! HMM
Nice show, enjoyed the others too, i think it should still be researched, not really disturbed inside other than that log book, to maybe find other answers to help save others lives if need be. I believe it bottomed out at the shoals and the hatches were dogged tight but i haven't seen anything if the hatch crane was secured or not, that would definitely have the force to knock those vents off and take down the fence if a wave caught it right. I know hull plates torn off will take that fence rail off too, but those missing vents is what makes me wonder what tore those off, those are very thick material. I notice the spare propeller blades were stored on the deck in the area of where the damage was reported also. Something heavy besides water snapped those vents off. Another thing nobody mentioned too, i wonder if an outbound ocean boat rolled over it in that whiteout and helped it disappear so quickly it was already riding low in the water, those lifeboats looked like they were chewed up by a propeller. I mostly believe it submarined to the bottom when those huge waves caught it from behind and the water it was trying to pump went forward pulled it under and the next waves destroyed the part sticking out and the third twisted the stern off flipping it over. But so would've a ship plowing though it, tearing out that two hundred plus feet too, mangling it and flipping the stern upside down. The front would have just dropped. Both parts of the Morrel sailed some after breaking apart. Thanks! Oh, lots have said about the flexing of the ship, most are designed that way, if they didn't, the first wave would snap them in half, thats why most don't have a true corner in the plates and ribbing, its a rouned circle where they meet, hard to describe, easy to see. Ocean boats roll with the waves, lakers plow through them pretty much. The newer lakers are being designed that way now to roll with wave action, with the superstructure all on the rear.👍
Thanks for sharing your thoughts/analysis here. I appreciate the work and thought you put into it. Your commentary has me rethinking some things...HMM
Log Book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xoxo
Who were the the Important people who Sailed ???? Seems kind of Odd for a Freighter to have Such comfy accomadations.......
Corporate executives and their families, mostly. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts here. HMM
My opinion is that I believe that they should be allowed to keep diving so we can find out what happened to bring closure to the families of the victims and to also bring closure to a near 50 year long mystery
Understood, but I'm not sure how diving will necessarily solve the mystery. We can dive till the end of time, but we will never know for sure what happened, unless someone can produce a video of the ship going down. Thanks for your input and contributions. HMM
You know another thing be nice to know where the fence rail actually broke at up front towards bow are in middle section
That's a very interesting question...and the first I've heard anyone reference that. Thanks for sharing...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan the reason I asked cause I was thinking whoever fence rail broke is probably going to be damaged area where water got into ballast tank
Makes sense to me...it's a good question that deserves an answer...thanks again. HMM@@user-ri9eu1fy5h