Rumor has it, they never found the BELL. The locals still talk about that. Had a man sometime ago show me the area of the accident. He tried to relay what his dad remembered as a kid.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Thought it was good. I have personally followed/walked the old path from Coopers, WV to Maybeury. There is remnants of the old pre 1950 line through out. Thank you for bringing us this video.
I'm a railroad contractor with a passionate interest in the industry's history, and I live less than a mile from U.S. 52 here in Minnesota. This is a part of it I'll probably never see.
I think this makes the Norfolk and Western better. I'm not happy about this wreck, but... JUST 4 lost in a railroad's worst wreck!? That's pretty good! It's also fortunate that it was a freight train and not a train like the Pocahontas or a similar passenger train...
My mother grew up in Switchback W.Va., not too far from Maybeury. I remember her talking about that accident. She was 13 years old at the time of the accient.
The railroad might be right. Transients have been known to close the angle cock valve between two cars. This results in two things. First, all cars behind the closed valve cannot have controlled brake operation. Secondly, with normal bleed off (leakage) in the brake pipe in the affected part of the train there will be a very slow service application of the brakes. The hobos/tramps/transients did this because eventually the train would be crippled and slow down forcing a stop by the train crew to locate the shut valve. The transient could then exit the train. This procedure works today just as it did many years ago. This is an EXTREMELY dangerous way to hitch a free ride. Since a fifth body wasn’t found in this wreck this might NOT be what caused the wreck. But something caused the brakes to malfunction. btw I ran steam for nine years.
Yeah, that's why I discarded that angle with the Transient. No 5th body.. The loco was going 55 or better at the time of derailment. I doubt this person could have jumped the train without seriously hurting themselves in the least. So I offered what I did.
When I was a kid in the 60s I had checked out a book on famous train wrecks from the local library that featured this wreck. Knowing what I know today I would suspect something in the locomotve brake stand. Great video, thanks much.
The derailment in Palestine can be attributed to a change in the response protocols for dealing with Hotbox or Hot Journal Detectors. Sometimes computer read outs are not a suitable substitute for a qualified set of eyes and hands.
This accident highlights the importance of a terminal brake test before departing the yard or terminal especially before descending a steep ruling grade. Among railroad employees this type of scenario is usually referred to as "bottling the air". The most detailed synopsis of this accident that I've seen is in the Dressler/King book "USRA 2-8-8-2 Series 3A" published by NJ International in the mid 1980's. I'm not really sure why a transient hobo would turn an angle cock valve to bottle the air. It's easier to "bottle the air" than what people might think. All it takes is the simple mistake of leaving an angle cock in the wrong position after making a pick up on the head end of a train. It's even easier to do if the cars have been on ground air to keep the trainlines pressurized. If there was no pick up performed in Bluefield Yard and a brake test was performed before departure, the "tampering by a transient or hobo scenario" gains plausibility. The concrete foundations for the bridge supports at the east end of the bridge still remain visible on the hillside. They can be seen while driving by on US Route 52. In 1950 when the new double track Elkhorn Tunnel opened the new track alignment through Maybeury was also put into service. The new alignment in conjunction with the new tunnel reduced the ruling grade from 2.0 to 1.4 percent. The "new" Maybeury Bridge was a Pratt Truss design that crossed over US Route 52 about 1/2 of a highway mile to the west of the original bridge and at a lower elevation. This is an interesting story of a very tragic event. Thanks for the video!
Is that new bridge the one that I showed at the end of the video? I didnt buy the Hobo angle because of the fact that another body wasnt found anywhere. The train was doing 55 or better at the time of derailment.. So I doubt the person could have jumped off without in the least hurting themselves badly.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Yes, the picture at 8:55 to the 9:00 minute mark is the new Maybeury bridge looking railroad west and looking north on US-52. The old bridge would be to the right and behind the photographer with the original track alignment curving around the hillside on the right to approach the west end of the original bridge. A trespasser would definitely have had an opportunity to dismount the train at a lower speed. The top of the grade in Bluefield Yard is around MP N364.0, When a train departs Bluefield running west it descends a 1.0 percent grade for about 5.5 miles to Flat Top. For about 3 miles the track profile is relatively flat. At Bluestone (around MP 373.5), after trains traversed a somewhat restrictive curve (25mph these days), there was an ascending climb to Coaldale Tunnel. Near the middle of Coaldale Tunnel would have been the beginning of the descent on the 2.0 percent ruling grade. So, at the most train 85 was only 3 miles from the beginning of the descending 2.0 percent grade running west when it derailed. The train picked up speed quickly. If the engine crew would've had some way of communicating with the Conductor on the caboose, he could have applied the emergency brakes from the rear and probably avoided the catastrophic derailment.
Norfolk & Western wash their hands in this story like other railroads did, also since this happen in 1937, N&W was just recovering The Great Depression, now they would have to spent some money they maybe need for something else.
@@dustin_4501 There was zero official documentation available from the N&W... The Federal Reports or local court cases on this incident. I can't accurately tell you.
Well, if the angle cock isnt open, theres not gonna be any brakes at all. Its entirely possible someone did close the valve, or it wasnt opened when it was connected.
The only worse thing I can think of that would match the sheer horror of it is a plane going down... What a sick feeling to find out the brakes aren't working and then going down the way that they did... Thanks for the comment
This is similar to the Washington Terminal wreck of the Congressional Limited, when the engine plunged into the baggage room; that was blamed on the angle cock on a leading coach being altered, in that case by a swing link knocking it. @@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower
Thank you for this. It always seems that the RR's are the ones to cover up their worst faults. And today like back then, the crews get the short end of the stick and all of the blame.
When N&W 611 jumped the tracks into the Tug River, my grandfather was the supervisor of the RPO car, suffering a broken arm when that mail car rolled over. He also was of the opinion that the N&W went to great lengths to control the reporting of the accident. Grandpa had a big book about steam locomotives in America. One of the many times I went through the book as a kid, I noticed that a night photo of an unidentified wreck showed the zigzag pattern familiar to me from Grandpa’s old newspaper clippings. I later wondered if the N&W made sure that the author left the wreck unidentified.
It was just something that I noticed.. A lot of the ICC reports for the Norfolk (and Virginian) Cannot be found. It's frustrating because there are a couple of incidents I want to do. I dont like relying on outside sources like I did for this one. I dont seem to have problems finding anyone else.
Sometime when you have a spare few minutes look up the number of workplace deaths that occured while working for the railroads say from the 1890's through the 1930's. Unbelievably (in regards to a comparison with today's workforce) you'd find a list that contains TENS OF THOUSANDS of deaths of people working on the railroads with no one cause being evident. The first time I saw the number I didn't believe it it was so large. Even in the course of doing my own family history I find that I had two relatives that were killed while working for the railroad. One (Charles Asa Booher) was killed in 1886 according to the family Bible when he was "crushed by an engine while working in the Argentine rail yard"in Kansas City in the 1870's while the other man (C.W. Briles who worked for the Kansas City Southern) was a mechanic who was killed in 1917 when a giant lifting cable broke and the heavy piece of something fell and struck him in the head killing him instantly. Both men have Woodsman of the World supplied headstones marking their graves near Pittsburg Kansas. One looks like a tree and is so grand it looks kind of out of place while the other is smaller and shows the Woodsman markings. The two things they have in common were the miserly settlements the family rec'd for these deaths from the railroad itself. I'm sure the monuments were the highpoint in spending and those didn't even come from the employer. Do a search on Find A Grave and you'll find both men's Memorials. Findagrave.com
A train especially of that length at that time would have had a caboose. One of the functions of the men in the back was to release air in an emergency. It is always safer to begin breaking in the rear instead of the front to drag the train to a stop rather than bunching up from the front. I assume there was a whistle signal the engine crew would use to have the caboose crew release air. That way is one cock had been closed and the back section remained pressurized, breaking would occur. It would also brake faster. I take it there wasn't anything in the record regarding the crew in the back? Please, don't use "Friction" bearings, but the proper term Journal or Plain bearings. I think Timken started using the term friction bearings as a sales gimmick to sell their roller bearings. The funny thing, we have some old equipment which are Timken Journal/Plain bearings.
I learned about this wreck in a Model Railroader magazine, that was all about the curious numerology over this event. 2+0+9+2 = 13, but there were many other coincidental connections to the number "13."
It was probably a faulty airbreak on a car and no one wanted to admit it. Granted the only ones at fault were likely dead, so not blaming them might have been a sentimental choice which I understand. Still a tragic accident
Thank you, TRC. Could thengineer have prevented this from happening? Why would a transient close a valve? Should caboose personnehave noticed the insufficient brakeline pressure in the brakeline pressure meter? Cannot blame people for picking up wreckage usable items.
I'm speaking from memory here, but isn't there a local folk song about this tragedy? Katy Letchler Lyell's book 'Scalded to Death by the Steam' includes a chapter on both the wreck and the text of the song.
If a brake isolating cock was shut, I would have thought it would been discovered on the brake test before they started away? During the trip the driver surely would have noticed something amiss when making brake applications. Looks like a suddenly occurred somewheres along the train, sadly?
The angle cock theory is probably the most probable and the root cause of the accident. I had one in a train, where I couldn't do a proper air test after doubling-up. They found that an angle cock at the double, would shudder closed when I set the air. So, whether it was a Hobo, somebody not opening an angle cock, or just a defective one, the restriction of air in the brake pipe, was most likely the cause of the brake failure.
I have a moderator that took them out yesterday. So yes they were removed. The channel isn't about all that.. I took the bait and I shouldn't have, so mod asked, I said yes.
6:38 If an angle cock was found to be shut on a car near the head end, someone had to have closed it. Perhaps blaming a trespasser was chosen, since no evidence indicating who did it was available and they didn't want to blame an N&W employee. We can conclude that no required brake test was performed before getting underway, as this would have revealed the fault so crew error is the ultimate cause of the accident.
I have reliable information that the same guy that is hiding the existence of UFO's today was born on that train just before it crashed, and it was his little hand that turned the brakes off.
These steam locomotives were complex and powerful machines that by nature were very dangerous to operate. Running on steam pressure well over 200 lbs. per cubic inch they were literally rolling bombs. Literally everything had to operate nearly perfectly for them to work safely. When you add in an air brake system that could be temperamental and thousands of tons of freight pushing on the rear anything could and often did happen. That is not even counting the ever-present possibility of human error in handling the train. Wreckage of this magnitude and lack of precision forensics in 1937 make it almost impossible to determine what caused the wreck, much less who was liable. It is easy to put blame on the railroad because it was a large organization and ultimately responsible. Nevertheless, the last thing that a corporation trying to scrape by in the Great Depression would have desired was this sort of a tragedy. To interpret this as some sort of corporate coverup conspiracy does a disservice to the hard-working employees and management of a great company. It is easy to throw shade eighty years after the fact.
I didnt throw any shade. The fact is all the railroad had to say was for unknown reasons the air brake system was not functioning. Instead..they say a transient messed with the angle valve system where no evidence of that person or event existed. At least with the information that was available. Now... If the Brakeman..who did survive for a time before succumbing stated something to the contrary..then that is something we will never know because the official ICC report is no where to be found..Neither is the N & W report. I named the two sources at the end of the video.. If you have more resources than I to check their facts.. Please do.. because I would like to hear it. Otherwise.. I comment on what I have before me.
Rumor has it, they never found the BELL. The locals still talk about that. Had a man sometime ago show me the area of the accident. He tried to relay what his dad remembered as a kid.
I wouldn't be surprised if it landed in a barn roof a mile away.. How did you feel about being there as what had gone was being described?
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Thought it was good. I have personally followed/walked the old path from Coopers, WV to Maybeury. There is remnants of the old pre 1950 line through out. Thank you for bringing us this video.
I'm a railroad contractor with a passionate interest in the industry's history, and I live less than a mile from U.S. 52 here in Minnesota. This is a part of it I'll probably never see.
And I hope you never do!
I think this makes the Norfolk and Western better. I'm not happy about this wreck, but... JUST 4 lost in a railroad's worst wreck!? That's pretty good! It's also fortunate that it was a freight train and not a train like the Pocahontas or a similar passenger train...
True that on it not being a passenger train. BTW, it's the way it happened that made it the worst, not the total deaths or casualties.
I wish Norfork and Southern would takes some hints 😅
My mother grew up in Switchback W.Va., not too far from Maybeury. I remember her talking about that accident. She was 13 years old at the time of the accient.
The railroad might be right. Transients have been known to close the angle cock valve between two cars. This results in two things. First, all cars behind the closed valve cannot have controlled brake operation. Secondly, with normal bleed off (leakage) in the brake pipe in the affected part of the train there will be a very slow service application of the brakes. The hobos/tramps/transients did this because eventually the train would be crippled and slow down forcing a stop by the train crew to locate the shut valve. The transient could then exit the train. This procedure works today just as it did many years ago. This is an EXTREMELY dangerous way to hitch a free ride.
Since a fifth body wasn’t found in this wreck this might NOT be what caused the wreck. But something caused the brakes to malfunction. btw I ran steam for nine years.
Yeah, that's why I discarded that angle with the Transient. No 5th body.. The loco was going 55 or better at the time of derailment. I doubt this person could have jumped the train without seriously hurting themselves in the least. So I offered what I did.
When I was a kid in the 60s I had checked out a book on famous train wrecks from the local library that featured this wreck. Knowing what I know today I would suspect something in the locomotve brake stand. Great video, thanks much.
You're welcome!
The same lame excuse in Palestine, Ohio. Not much has changed, even the people as you so correctly said.
The derailment in Palestine can be attributed to a change in the response protocols for dealing with Hotbox or Hot Journal Detectors. Sometimes computer read outs are not a suitable substitute for a qualified set of eyes and hands.
This accident highlights the importance of a terminal brake test before departing the yard or terminal especially before descending a steep ruling grade. Among railroad employees this type of scenario is usually referred to as "bottling the air". The most detailed synopsis of this accident that I've seen is in the Dressler/King book "USRA 2-8-8-2 Series 3A" published by NJ International in the mid 1980's. I'm not really sure why a transient hobo would turn an angle cock valve to bottle the air. It's easier to "bottle the air" than what people might think. All it takes is the simple mistake of leaving an angle cock in the wrong position after making a pick up on the head end of a train. It's even easier to do if the cars have been on ground air to keep the trainlines pressurized. If there was no pick up performed in Bluefield Yard and a brake test was performed before departure, the "tampering by a transient or hobo scenario" gains plausibility. The concrete foundations for the bridge supports at the east end of the bridge still remain visible on the hillside. They can be seen while driving by on US Route 52. In 1950 when the new double track Elkhorn Tunnel opened the new track alignment through Maybeury was also put into service. The new alignment in conjunction with the new tunnel reduced the ruling grade from 2.0 to 1.4 percent. The "new" Maybeury Bridge was a Pratt Truss design that crossed over US Route 52 about 1/2 of a highway mile to the west of the original bridge and at a lower elevation. This is an interesting story of a very tragic event. Thanks for the video!
Is that new bridge the one that I showed at the end of the video? I didnt buy the Hobo angle because of the fact that another body wasnt found anywhere. The train was doing 55 or better at the time of derailment.. So I doubt the person could have jumped off without in the least hurting themselves badly.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Yes, the picture at 8:55 to the 9:00 minute mark is the new Maybeury bridge looking railroad west and looking north on US-52. The old bridge would be to the right and behind the photographer with the original track alignment curving around the hillside on the right to approach the west end of the original bridge. A trespasser would definitely have had an opportunity to dismount the train at a lower speed. The top of the grade in Bluefield Yard is around MP N364.0, When a train departs Bluefield running west it descends a 1.0 percent grade for about 5.5 miles to Flat Top. For about 3 miles the track profile is relatively flat. At Bluestone (around MP 373.5), after trains traversed a somewhat restrictive curve (25mph these days), there was an ascending climb to Coaldale Tunnel. Near the middle of Coaldale Tunnel would have been the beginning of the descent on the 2.0 percent ruling grade. So, at the most train 85 was only 3 miles from the beginning of the descending 2.0 percent grade running west when it derailed. The train picked up speed quickly. If the engine crew would've had some way of communicating with the Conductor on the caboose, he could have applied the emergency brakes from the rear and probably avoided the catastrophic derailment.
Norfolk & Western wash their hands in this story like other railroads did,
also since this happen in 1937, N&W was just recovering The Great Depression, now they would have to spent some money they maybe need for something else.
As much as I really like the N & W... This is what it looks like to me.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Let me guess, N&W didn't even pay indemnity to the crew families, either to the other guy who die.
@@dustin_4501 There was zero official documentation available from the N&W... The Federal Reports or local court cases on this incident. I can't accurately tell you.
Well, if the angle cock isnt open, theres not gonna be any brakes at all. Its entirely possible someone did close the valve, or it wasnt opened when it was connected.
The only worse thing I can think of that would match the sheer horror of it is a plane going down... What a sick feeling to find out the brakes aren't working and then going down the way that they did... Thanks for the comment
This is similar to the Washington Terminal wreck of the Congressional Limited, when the engine plunged into the baggage room; that was blamed on the angle cock on a leading coach being altered, in that case by a swing link knocking it. @@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower
Thank you for this. It always seems that the RR's are the ones to cover up their worst faults. And today like back then, the crews get the short end of the stick and all of the blame.
When N&W 611 jumped the tracks into the Tug River, my grandfather was the supervisor of the RPO car, suffering a broken arm when that mail car rolled over. He also was of the opinion that the N&W went to great lengths to control the reporting of the accident. Grandpa had a big book about steam locomotives in America. One of the many times I went through the book as a kid, I noticed that a night photo of an unidentified wreck showed the zigzag pattern familiar to me from Grandpa’s old newspaper clippings. I later wondered if the N&W made sure that the author left the wreck unidentified.
It was just something that I noticed.. A lot of the ICC reports for the Norfolk (and Virginian) Cannot be found. It's frustrating because there are a couple of incidents I want to do. I dont like relying on outside sources like I did for this one. I dont seem to have problems finding anyone else.
Can you do the UP big boy 4005 wreck?
Yes I can and I most certainly will.
Sometime when you have a spare few minutes look up the number of workplace deaths that occured while working for the railroads say from the 1890's through the 1930's. Unbelievably (in regards to a comparison with today's workforce) you'd find a list that contains TENS OF THOUSANDS of deaths of people working on the railroads with no one cause being evident. The first time I saw the number I didn't believe it it was so large. Even in the course of doing my own family history I find that I had two relatives that were killed while working for the railroad. One (Charles Asa Booher) was killed in 1886 according to the family Bible when he was "crushed by an engine while working in the Argentine rail yard"in Kansas City in the 1870's while the other man (C.W. Briles who worked for the Kansas City Southern) was a mechanic who was killed in 1917 when a giant lifting cable broke and the heavy piece of something fell and struck him in the head killing him instantly. Both men have Woodsman of the World supplied headstones marking their graves near Pittsburg Kansas. One looks like a tree and is so grand it looks kind of out of place while the other is smaller and shows the Woodsman markings. The two things they have in common were the miserly settlements the family rec'd for these deaths from the railroad itself. I'm sure the monuments were the highpoint in spending and those didn't even come from the employer. Do a search on Find A Grave and you'll find both men's Memorials. Findagrave.com
blame the train crew has a modern day equivalent in that airlines and aircraft manufacturers habitually blame the air crew first
#2092 was traveling too fast.
A train especially of that length at that time would have had a caboose. One of the functions of the men in the back was to release air in an emergency. It is always safer to begin breaking in the rear instead of the front to drag the train to a stop rather than bunching up from the front. I assume there was a whistle signal the engine crew would use to have the caboose crew release air. That way is one cock had been closed and the back section remained pressurized, breaking would occur. It would also brake faster. I take it there wasn't anything in the record regarding the crew in the back?
Please, don't use "Friction" bearings, but the proper term Journal or Plain bearings. I think Timken started using the term friction bearings as a sales gimmick to sell their roller bearings. The funny thing, we have some old equipment which are Timken Journal/Plain bearings.
Thanks for the info!
Much appreciate the history you do research on!
Thank you!
Have you covered the UP 4005 Big Boy wreck? Great Vid! Thx!
Will get there
I learned about this wreck in a Model Railroader magazine, that was all about the curious numerology over this event. 2+0+9+2 = 13, but there were many other coincidental connections to the number "13."
rip that locomotive :( at 1:58
Indeed
It was probably a faulty airbreak on a car and no one wanted to admit it.
Granted the only ones at fault were likely dead, so not blaming them might have been a sentimental choice which I understand.
Still a tragic accident
Thank you, TRC. Could thengineer have prevented this from happening? Why would a transient close a valve? Should caboose personnehave noticed the insufficient brakeline pressure in the brakeline pressure meter?
Cannot blame people for picking up wreckage usable items.
I'm speaking from memory here, but isn't there a local folk song about this tragedy? Katy Letchler Lyell's book 'Scalded to Death by the Steam' includes a chapter on both the wreck and the text of the song.
I did not have the book...
If a brake isolating cock was shut, I would have thought it would been discovered on the brake test before they started away?
During the trip the driver surely would have noticed something amiss when making brake applications. Looks like a suddenly occurred somewheres along the train, sadly?
Without the ICC report... these are the questions that aren't answered.
The angle cock theory is probably the most probable and the root cause of the accident. I had one in a train, where I couldn't do a proper air test after doubling-up. They found that an angle cock at the double, would shudder closed when I set the air. So, whether it was a Hobo, somebody not opening an angle cock, or just a defective one, the restriction of air in the brake pipe, was most likely the cause of the brake failure.
Great info, thank you!
Did you delete the comments disagreeing with your comparison with looters today? 🙁
I have a moderator that took them out yesterday. So yes they were removed. The channel isn't about all that.. I took the bait and I shouldn't have, so mod asked, I said yes.
6:38 If an angle cock was found to be shut on a car near the head end, someone had to have closed it. Perhaps blaming a trespasser was chosen, since no evidence indicating who did it was available and they didn't want to blame an N&W employee. We can conclude that no required brake test was performed before getting underway, as this would have revealed the fault so crew error is the ultimate cause of the accident.
This where having the ICC report would have been likely handy. They questions do not get answered.
2092 . . . . 2 + 9 + 2 = 13 . . . . ( 13 )
I have reliable information that the same guy that is hiding the existence of UFO's today was born on that train just before it crashed, and it was his little hand that turned the brakes off.
is he in fact the one armed man?
These steam locomotives were complex and powerful machines that by nature were very dangerous to operate. Running on steam pressure well over 200 lbs. per cubic inch they were literally rolling bombs. Literally everything had to operate nearly perfectly for them to work safely. When you add in an air brake system that could be temperamental and thousands of tons of freight pushing on the rear anything could and often did happen. That is not even counting the ever-present possibility of human error in handling the train. Wreckage of this magnitude and lack of precision forensics in 1937 make it almost impossible to determine what caused the wreck, much less who was liable. It is easy to put blame on the railroad because it was a large organization and ultimately responsible. Nevertheless, the last thing that a corporation trying to scrape by in the Great Depression would have desired was this sort of a tragedy. To interpret this as some sort of corporate coverup conspiracy does a disservice to the hard-working employees and management of a great company. It is easy to throw shade eighty years after the fact.
I didnt throw any shade. The fact is all the railroad had to say was for unknown reasons the air brake system was not functioning. Instead..they say a transient messed with the angle valve system where no evidence of that person or event existed. At least with the information that was available. Now... If the Brakeman..who did survive for a time before succumbing stated something to the contrary..then that is something we will never know because the official ICC report is no where to be found..Neither is the N & W report. I named the two sources at the end of the video.. If you have more resources than I to check their facts.. Please do.. because I would like to hear it. Otherwise.. I comment on what I have before me.