Review: ROLAND JUNO X vs JUPITER X/Xm and other ZEN-Core synths // Advanced tutorial
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
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TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
1:35 vs ZEN-Core
2:50 vs Jupiter X/Xm
6:30 Overview
11:15 Colorful buttons
11:35 Scene selection
13:10 Part mode
14:05 Func mode
15:00 Model/Bank
16:55 Split/layer
17:10 Connectivity
18:20 The Editors
19:05 Zenology Pro
19:50 JUNO-X Editor
20:55 What’s a tone?
22:10 Scenes
23:00 Parts
23:40 FX sends
24:20 Scene offsets
27:55 Arp
29:00 I-ARPEGGIO
30:10 Step edit
32:20Key shift
32:45 WC-1
37:05 Scene view
37:30 Pros & cons
42:00 Some sounds
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NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links to stores like Amazon, Sweetwater, Thomann and others. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
Just picked up one of these after walking into Sam Ash with the intention of buying a Nord Electro for live gigs. I was ridiculously underwhelmed by the synth sounds on the Nord (I know, not what it’s for but still). Asked a rep if there was anything that had solid onboard piano/wurli/rhodes sounds but had a deep synth engine as well. The dude walked me over to this and I groaned since I already own a 106. But after playing around for awhile, not only were the pianos way more convincing then they had any business being, but the synths sounded indistinguishable from the vintage (don’t listen to the haters, I have the vintage and I’d be hard pressed to tell which was which). This thing is infinitely more practical for my scoring work and live stuff, especially now that I don’t have to lug around delicate vintage gear. 10/10❤
Well said.
Did you get the Jupiter or Juno?
Great insight, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to also use the Juno X as a MIDI controller for other synths? Seems like it would be great to use with VSTs like Serum.
Own a Juno-106 that my father gave me decades ago and been using it more than any other synth I own. Bought the Juno-X second-hand just to give it a try and while I don't use many of the Zen features, I've now retired my Juno-106 which has gone to the loft in a hard case. The extra polyphony, new intuitive features I wish the Juno-106 had, and the fact that its components aren't going to creep further are exactly what I needed and Juno-X has it all.
IEEEEEEEE.... I just got a JUNO X! love it so far! A tip I found in the manual: if you hold down shift and touch any slider or knob, it brings up all the settings for that knob or slider! very handy. Also they just released a firmware update. Thanks for the tips also! Its such a complicated synth, I love it! I love that its a bit of the old, with a lot of the new. I can understand why some players want a pure one emulation synth, but It does so much it handily takes the place of several synths. Saving space and money, for me I can sit and play with presets, or reset one to a basic tone and play with that for hours. I find the JUNO editor a little buggy, but it backs up everything nicely.
I have to say, I am literally floored by how good your videos are Loopop, both the content and video editing, with all those midi effects, perfect camera angles… seriously the highest standard of what a synth review can be 🤯
Glad you like them!
@@loopop What is the best keyboard overall? What keyboards should I stay away from? I like beats and analog sound.
@@razeu482there's no such thing as a best keyboard - it's up to you to research what fits your needs best and inspires you to create
...And by 6th minute 34th second of this video I've learnt more about Roland's Jupiter X/Xm, Juno-X and Zen-Core product implementation, than I have had over the last month by visiting FOUR separate keyboard stores in my city!
G'oh, you're goood! 😃
Great thorough review. I honestly just purchased this synth based on your review since there is not many other videos that go into the amount of detail that you demonstrated. Great content. Thank you sir ..👍
This is the most thorough video tutorial of the Juno-X to date. I'm bookmarking this for future reference.
Realized i didn't have notifications set to all... just getting this video now and I have been waiting lol. Awesome job man! Thx for all the genius work 👊🧡👍
Huge thanks for this video. I have the Jupiter xm and this was very useful for understanding that synth. Obviously there are a few differences but a lot applies to the xm too. Very well explained as always.
Brilliant and incredibly thorough review as always!
Even making coffee with that screen would be a nightmare
This is a roland thing 😂
Its not so hot, in fact, it works very well because of nice ux
If you don’t know how to make coffee in the first place.
It's better than the two number LED in the Juno 106!
Always complaining. Lol. Either it’s the screen or it’s the lack of analog. Pls get a life.
Perfect, I've been waiting for a video like this.
Incredibly comprehensive overview and contextualisation. Excellent!
Perfect, was waiting for this!!!
I have to agree with the previous comments as well. This is a very well done deep dive video review the Juno. These are the type of review videos i love to watch. Well Done Loopop!
Got this beast almost two months ago, still learning all that it can do... surprises me everyday anew 😅
You really are the 🐐 of the Synth Review!! Thank you for being you and everything that you do ❤️
You too Jack! You guys over at Anderson’s always do a killer job. Your tc helicon voicelive touch 2 video really changed my musical path years ago! :] the first purchase into my synthesizer and audio gear acquisitions.
Not so bad yourself, Jack 👍🏻
Thanks very much! Likewise a pleasure to watch you! :)
Hey you do some pretty good work too Jack.
Back in the day, one of my life's pleasures was to go around to about 5 different music stores and chat up my fave salesguys to see what they had. Now its guys like you. And i dont have to pretend like im gonna buy to keep you interested.
Thanks for your great explanations !! As always your videos are very helpful and straightforward.. have a great weekend
Masterful review! Superb! Thank you! I’ve had mine over a month and I still learned allot watching this! Thank you for your dedication to excellence!! 🙏🏿🙏🏿
Props for the visuals, man!!
I'm so happy to have heard your review right after ordering the mC101... I totally feel. Like I made the right choice. I plan on using it as a separate sound module after laying down the Moog Matriarch, the plug up the MC101 via midi, and sprinkle in the ear candy
Thanks a lot for the clear explanation of how the Zencore models and the WC-1 work! Glad to hear it is possible to have them without a subscription and forced reconnects. A bit of a vindication of Roland's cloud, for me, that it is optional and not forced.
I'm pleased that it sounds as though you can permanently add the JP8 and other models to the Juno? I'm still trying to figure all this out.
The RD88 I had briefly promised stuff like that but I could NEVER get any of that Zen stuff to work on the RD88
But I guess the JunoX/JupiterX models are different from the Zen and the Zen is different from Roland Cloud. I was supposed to have a free a Roland Cloud subscription for a year with my RD and could NEVER get any of that shit to work! I too want vindication!!!
Good and balanced review. That iArp function blew me away
Thank you so much for this video, very helpful on figuring out how to use my Juno to its potential !! 🎉
High quality!!! subbed!!
Awesome review. Nice in-depth look “under the hood”.
I literally just ordered one of these tonight. I can now leave all the classic Rolands home, and use this for performances. I'm rather excited about it.
How you finding it?
I've had my Juno X for a month now. I can't say enough good things about it. Sometimes you get an instrument that just completely resonates with you to your core. This is that instrument for me. I considered very, very carefully whether I wanted to buy the X or just use the money to get a vintage 106, and I know now I made the right decision. The 106 is undoubtedly one of the greatest synths in synth history. However, it is 40+ years old, and has 40+ year old issues. Buying the X avoids those issues, while also giving a host of new sounds and features while maintaining the look/feel of the original 106. It goes without saying that I love this instrument, but above and beyond that, it is a really wonderful keyboard in it's own right. I'm personally glad that Roland chose not to just recreate the 106 - the X is so much more! Analog addicts will always moan "VST in a box!". Well, it's the box that counts when it comes to controlling the software - and this box is amazing. If you want analog warmth, you can get it from this unit. If you want digital ice, you can also get it from this unit. And anything in between. What are you waiting for? GET ONE!
Great video as always. The new Fantom 06 is imho a great Roland without the retro vibe.
The retro synths sound great but I find it difficult with knobs/sliders changing functionality with different emulations.
Got a used Jupiter 50, sounds great (SuperNatural & VA). The ergonomics is pretty rough editing sounds yet presets are very good (best I have ever owned).
The Jupiter 50 didn't sell well, got mine used for a third of msrp and is a keeper.
I hope all brands do well and make good sounding, reliable and reasonally priced synthesizers.
I’ve noticed the Editor / Librarian isn’t available on iPad. 😫 …It would be a superb addition to have though, especially for a live gig. Like, I’d finally be able to do crazy modulations with a Zencore patch’s Step LFO in real-time. I hope Roland would integrate this in a later time.
Exelent review 👍
By comparison the hands on controls layout, I would say juno x is much preferd to work with 106 and 60 models, while jupiter x preferd for jupiter 8 and jx8p. Juno x has the one oscillator slider, like the original 106 and 60, so this layot doesn't fit 2 oscillator synth models properly.
But.. you can't help smile looking at the juno x, it's such a nice looking synth :)
Scene on Juno X is like Patch + Performance on the D70. Changing the tone in the D70's patch mode doesn't alter the stored tone. The Performance mode contains the effects and pedal & AT assignments. There is also what's called "original tone" in the D70, which is the waveform you start with to create a tone using all the usual synth parameters--filters, envelopes, LFOs, etc. While the Juno X seems confusing, the D70 is more so. Yet the complexity, sound design capabilities, and variety of sounds goes way beyond the D70, but perhaps not so complex, that it becomes a "work station," and performs more like a "play station."
Thanks as always!
Just bought a vintage Juno 106 from 1984 for £1550 in great working order.
Sounds amazing. ❤
No, you didn't, prove it.
Another quality video...is there anything zen core related to the Roland Alpha Juno series? Seems like it never gets mentioned .
Cheers.
For the first time I'm connecting the Juno synth sound to Plains, trains and automobiles. Could be wrong, but this has that sound.
Great review ... it seems an awesome Instrument for people who want to play music, and not spend too much time on a sound design tool ;-)
like every Korg, Roland, Kawaii, Casio, and Yamaha keyboard of any kind, yes
A new loopop video? What a treat
Sounds awesome under your fingers.
I’m a synth guy, sliders and knobs no fancy menus etc and really wanted to get this when it came out. However after research I actually went and bought the Fantom 08 and so far massively impressed. Seemed to me that the fantom was more bang for the buck…
no exaggeration, and it has twice the BMC cores over Juno-X, too, so much more power for sounds and sound design
One thing this video highlights is how unlike a Juno-106 it is in complicated menu diving and option paralysis. The simplicity of a 106 is everything that's great about it. That little screen is a nightmare and If I need a computer to get a better view and tweak a million parameters I'd get an Arturia KeyLab 61 mkII plus their V collection of synths. With that you'd get the high quality metal chassis controller that you can easily map all synths to, way more classic synths beyond just Roland models and no dongle that needs to check in. You could do all of that for $800-$900 or less. Why be locked into Roland only models and subscriptions for $2,099+? Roland makes nice sounding stuff but I hate their overpriced corporate business model and messy UI designs. Also, scenes, parts, tones and buttons that do 5 different things...man, that sounds like a workflow, creativity killer.
I think when you simply press one of the model buttons on the front panel all the controls work the same as a regular Juno.. the menu diving is all about the more advanced features , see the Andertons video where they show this feature .. personally I'm excited to see this on the market ( not a big fan on using a mouse for music production )
@@synkuk Almost any controller can midi map control VST’s so you don’t have to use a mouse and click. But I guess if you want a Juno shaped controller for $2099 that only includes Roland stuff then this one is for you.
@@prizmprty6479 🤣😂, different strokes for different folks .. every person has their preference.. you seem to like VST's and mapping midi controllers ... I prefer not to as my job is 100% in front of a PC .. an I love the tactile feeling of a HW synth.. Dont get me wrong I used to be into plugins and such .. but grew old for me .. but that's me .. not you .. no right or wrong in that .. have quite a few HW synths .. some could be replaced by VST's and some couldn't .. but good the world all does not think the same way .. where would the fun be in that ..
@@synkuk all true but I happen to love both Hardware AND VST’s. I have an OB-6 that cannot be replaced. They both have huge advantages.
You can have both man. I've got those things, and while I actually grew to love the Arturia synths, you have a lot of extra stuff to buy there too. Those synth models, especially the interesting ones, aren't cheap. I also have a Microfreak and an MPC. Both of those are more for jams and live performance. Or you could set up a desk and dual monitors with your computers running 60terrabytes of VSTs on stage.
I don't understand what Roland was trying to do here. Working with the vast number of parameters that the various Zen Core models offer on the tiny display is a menu diving nightmare. For a Juno 106 / 60 emulation it still lacks a few important knobs. For example, the filter and oscillator section have their own lfo amount slider on the original but here there is only one depth amount knob in the LFO section for both.
It is a curious choice to come so close to replicating a cherished interface and then fall short on the homestretch. There should be obvious reasons why you wouldn't want your performance synth to always have modulation for filter and pitch be linked. What was their internal play testing?
I'm actually not surprised. It is pretty ridiculous, but that's because synth players are often ridiculous customers. I bet Roland will sell a lot more Juno-X than the Fantom-06. Both are Zen-Core and essentially identical, the only difference is the housing. Even though the Fantom-06 has better controls, better screen, and is cheaper, people will buy the Juno-X because of the name and look makes it seem more synth-like than workstation-like.
@@stephencoakley exactly why i bought it
i felt this with the Juptier Xm, and got a fantom 6 because the touch interface SHOULD make it easier to control all the parameters.....turns out that's partially true, but the reality is that the entire framework of Roland's system is an inspiration killer. Nothing is that easy to manipulate beyond the model emulations. Everything else is menu diving, and you have to really have a plan for what you're trying to create because there are very few happy accidents to be made with every parameter being hidden in random deep menus.
It's Roland !
Great video. I just got my Juno X a few weeks ago and it's pretty awesome. I do have a question. Is it possible to do any of the in-depth editing via the phone and the wireless usb? I assume not since you didn't mention it, but if I could do that instead of menu diving, I'd buy the WC-1 in a heartbeat.
Thanks! Unfortunately not, at least as far as I know
A comparison between Juno-X and Jupiter-X should mention LFOs (1 vs 2)
17:30 A small detail but very convenient. I don't always need a headphone jack at the front, however, I find the rear headphone option very handy for an alternative FX sends sub-mixer, or a 3.5 mm patch bay, and you don't always see a rear headphone jack on Roland and other manufacturers' products, like for example Roland's own System 1m or Novation's Circuit Mono Station, where having only the front 3.5 port on what is essentially a very light and easily movable desktop synth, - makes the plug stick out and isn't very conducive to good cable management. Would be great to see the same approach in more budget-friendly products as well. I don't imagine having an extra 3.5 mm or a stereo 1/4' port bringing the cost up very significantly.
Couldn’t even wait for the official review and pulled the trigger. The timing couldn’t be better as I receive it tomorrow and will watch this as my primer. Thank you 🙌🏻👍🏻🤘🏻🙏🏻🎹
Excellent review. Thank you.
Basically identical sounds as the Jupiter X, can download preffered synth patches, built well but significantly cheaper than the JX...
As one comment mentioned here, you can get a Fantom 0 that will do the same, large touch screen and a lot more for even less....
Its just a case of horses for courses.
However, it sounds much better out of the box than the deepmind 12 and has a much better keybed.
I like it 👍
Cheapest option that can do it all is the Fantom 06
you have juno 60, not available in jupiter x
Ahh.. a synth where you can finally release your inner Alex Ball, on a budget.
Good review Loopop! 👍
I guess I’m joining the chorus when I say … “jeez I wish I’d kept my Juno 6” … but then back in 1985 it did buy me a ticket to Delhi !!! The twists and turns of life … this looks like such a great synth
I love my Jupiter X oh so much
Hands down best Synth tutorials online. In depth yet simple🙂🙃. I have just today ( 10.04. 2023) ordered Juno X. Although i do have Fantom 8 and Jupiter X. Many will say that this is stupid move but i simply don`t care. Just sold JD-XA and System 8.
Why stupid? Because of overlap? Plenty of people here also have both. The X series are some of the best synths we have ever made. Please just have fun making music. Don't trouble yourself with opinions on your gear, other than your own.
I got the juno x and love it. I am gonna got the jupiter x soon. I agree
@@ErraticFaith Exactly...that`s why i wrote that i don`t care. I love them all. Fun is now on another level 😆😆
Great high-level review. Are you an engineer by chance? Most of what you were playing at the end 46:31 was making me want to create songs on this. Is it easy to transfer those i arp sequences to logic pro and expand it from there?
Thanks! Not an engineer. You can't "transfer" the arp patterns as in drag and drop or something, but you can record them
@loopop can you sequence this in a DAW or would I just record audio into it?
The 60-70s chord organ has come a very long way indeed!
My only complaint, the editor should have been available on the ipad too… ipad is the perfect platform for editors…. I hope that they will sell a 76 version in the future.. with double engines (2x5) and some of the features of the jupiter 80..
Id like to know how it would perform as the main midi keyboard as well as a sound module in a hybrid setup. Does it have basic midi control settings like easy access to 16 midi channels to control different hard/soft synths hooked into a sequencer like an mpc or maschine ?
Does anyone know how to register scenes for quick select in the 1-16 buttons? Like if I want to switch between custom scenes fast, how would I save my presets to the 1-16 buttons to do that instead of menu diving to find my scene?
Thanks so much for this, been going back a ton to figure out little things here and there 😁 Any idea how to perma-save model and category assignments to buttons in model mode? It's easy enough to map the buttons to models or categories but I have to do it over every time I power off 😅 Edit: Nvm found it already! Had to scroll down when saving to find "system ". Seems obvious in hindsight lol
Informative
I think the Juno-X looks and sounds great!
Hi. Are the I-Arpeggio functions of the Juno-X and Jupiter-Xm exactly identical? I read slight differences in the manuals.
Finally, for the first time, the screen is closest to us...finally!!!! Sound designers wishing to build their own sounds will hover over this screen for hours, having the screen at the top (like the Jupiter) is only for the young who may not have the body stress us older folks do. Screens are stressful to begin with when you know where you want to go, but have to press and press and scroll to get there...over and over again. Bad screen placement is why I will not buy a ModWave or WaveState. And even the HydraSynth Explorer with its innovative UI could have had the screens closest to us and the diagram/block/interface buttons at the top. Maybe everyone is just buying these keyboards as romplers and don't care about how much time others are stressing over these screens, and with the above mentions synths very very small screens. Some day digital synth manufacturers will understand ergonomics.....some day.....
hi!
two questions
how many steps has the step sequencer?
does it have a quantize function?
My first synth was an XP-50 in 1997. That had all the XV-5080 parameters behind a tiny orange screen, very few physical controls and, of course, no editor. That said, I grew to love it's complexity and all of the options at my disposal. This seems like an evolution of that "under the panel" workflow, with many more editing tools to utilize, in a physical form that is familiar and successful. I don't think it's fair to complain that the layout isn't exactly the same as an original Juno when this synth is much deeper and more complex than a Juno ever was. Nor, is it fair to fault it for not having every parameter under the hood linked to a physical control. Even the slider-laden JD800 couldn't have had that. I think Roland have done an excellent job of finding the balance between the familiar and moving forward.
I had two Original Juno-106, they both broke. So I installed the TAL U-No-LX plugin, which is amazing. The Juno-X looks and sounds great! Love the ZEN engine.
Softube Model 84 is superb too.
Are the keys full size (5.5" vs 5" like on the JUNO-DS)?
1:48 This basically sums up 9/10 synths coming out today across all brands. Just learn one you are comfortable with for each type of synthesis and you are fine.
This! I do own a Jupiter X, and a Juno, OB, Polybrute etc. I can get most sounds out of any of them as you say. I could easily live with just the Jupiter tbh, as it's effectively 4 synths and my drums. Picking 1 synth and mastering it is the key though, but watching YT vids with GAS always overrides peoples common sense. Mine included!
The patch at 42 minutes is gorgeous, makes me wanna play Any colour you like by Pink Floyd...
If I understand it correctly, it's OS is quite similar to the Jupiter-X+Xm and therefore the normal ARP is not quite standard stuff, since it is grid-programmable like the sequencer (with named patterns), so one can make syncopating arpeggios and stuff like that. This mighty functionality runs fairly under the radar in most, when not all descriptions and reviews. I am not sure though if the step edit arp is instantly playable while in edit mode - the reference manual is a bit cryptic here and says you have firstly to store it as a scene. Note that I have none of these machines, but I am constantly in search for a really versatile Arpeggiator in (as small as possible) Hardware, since the ARP on my MODX is practically unusable in my workflow.
That's pretty cool. I would normally recommend a Korg workstation to someone who wants a programmable arp.
Is there any way to access rhythmbank from model/bank menu. I have really hard time accessing any drum kits. Please help me which button to press to get in to. I’m trying for two days and no luck.
Thanks
Does juno-x use the same keybed as jupiter-x?
If anyone already has a nice controller and just wants an excellent Juno sound Softube's Model 84 is so good I sold my Actual Juno-106 after A/B'ing them. I actually like the sound of the Model 84 more. Plus, it's like $79 on sale. Better than $2,000 if you just want a near perfect 106. It has all the stock presets as the original too and they sound dead on.
No you didn't hahaha. I've got one, and whilst the 84 is good, it's nothing like a real one. Too funny.
@@vaiman7777 ok, if you say so I guess I didn’t. Lol! Just unloaded my 106 this week. Great synth but the Model 84 is close enough and in many ways better for my needs.
@@prizmprty6479 I also have a Juno-60. I agree, the software is very good, certainly better than worrying about failing voices or noisy fx. But would I swap them for a $80 plugin? Never, unless I was starving :)
@@vaiman7777 I get the love of hardware. I have an OB-6 still…My favorite hardware synth. Overall plugins are just better for my workflow and I think they sound just as good or in some cases better. Arturia and Softube make some amazing VSTs.
@@prizmprty6479 I like my OB-6, great synth. I have a Polybrute, so I'm an Arturia fan also. I agree there's some excellent soft synths. As you say, what works for your workflow is best.
I've moved away from computers as they drain your soul lol. So having 4 synths in the Jupiter is a god send. It's the best of both worlds. Probably the best synth purchase I've ever made, it's fantastic.
Wow profil is well done 😄
👍
If Bluetooth allows to connect headphones and listen the audio output?
Great review, as always. There's something timeless about these sounds, even if they're merely recreations of the machines we fell in love with.
That said, 4:10 to around about 6:20 is exactly the sort of nonsense that so many people find infuriating about Roland and their pricing models. Ridiculous business.
A bigger problem is that these things don't last. Who has a piece of gear with a To Host (mini DIN) connector, which is useless in this day and age? Or an early device with USB that requires special software, which no longer works on modern operating systems?
My vintage gear just works. And unless they physically break, they will keep working. Having a synth that is dependent on a network connection AND Roland keeping their servers up and running... that's an issue. Imagine taking this thing on a gig.
@@SeverityOne As a purely hobbyist musician, your vintage synths that may require very delicate repairs / parts hunting, or specialist knowledge to repair are scary :).
The "they don't last" comment doesn't quite line up to me, current stuff that may be perfectly well built or even better than a vintage haven't had a chance to be old yet so we have no idea if they'd break down. Are there certainly cheaper made models and more of them these days? Absolutely, but I'm sure there's still from the 70's-90's that doesn't exist today because it was poorly made. There's just more of it now because the Internet, global shipping, and the like are much more ubiquitous. You can get a synth from way more places / people / companies now then you could just hitting your local shop in the 70's (I assume :)).
The network connectivity / longevity of Roland's servers is a valid complaint - but I'd wonder, how many of your vintage synths were made for working musicians only, because of the cost it was never even pondered that a 20 year old in their room might want one along with their laptop and Xbox for example :)
@@Daphoid You didn't understand my "don't last" comment. It's got nothing to do with build quality, and everything to do with dependence on technologies that become obsolete: technologies to connect them to computers, or technologies that involve some sort of licensing.
Now USB is pretty future-proof, because it's been around for a quarter of a century, and remains backwards compatible. But how many technologies are there in pro audio that have gone the way of the dodo? How about the aforementioned "to host" connector, or cassette tape ports (for loading and saving data), or Firewire?
The situation is worse when it comes to computer software. Software designed for Windows XP may or may not work on modern Windows systems, but Mac OS is pretty much guaranteed not to work because of breaking changes. And no manufacturer is going to support hardware of a certain age, because there's no money in it. It's barely short of a miracle that the Novation Remote Zero SL that I bought recently has Windows 11 drivers, but the seller runs Mac OS, so he's out of luck.
And then finally, licencing. Apart from the fact that I don't want to deal with this kind of nonsense when making music, anything that depends on an online resource WILL STOP WORKING. I've been around too long not to see it happen all the time.
Didn't know about this subscription, rental thing. That is odd. Why not just include the sounds? That tiny screen does not look inviting. Love your reviews, Loopop!
If I buy the Wc1 its no charge for model expansion's ?
I wonder when Roland will come out with a completely new synth next. Seems like forever.
Arguably the JD-XA. But most people where very vocal about that synth. Seems to have tempered their interest in that market.
Roland SE-02 was like 4-5 years ago. It was very Moog-inspired, but still
A lot of folks missed their excellent Eurorack system. It sounds absolutely incredible. They hired the right people to design it, it’s a worthy successor to their original System 100.
Never. It’s roland. And that SE was primarily studio electronics
There was System-8 and System-1 in recent years, ignoring the plug-outs for them. Before that, Jupiter-80 and Jupiter-50, as far as I know. So Eventually™ they may churn out something about as slightly newish.
the central LED screen is really more smart than the Jupiter-X, I have the Jupiter-X, and I want to know if I can buy the Juno-X or is it a waste of money ?
I had preordered the Juno-X but opted against it when I got the notification. Instead I invested the same money towards a DeepMind 12 (to satisfy the modern needs), and a Juno-106 with replaced voice chips (to satisfy the vintage analog). No regrets at all but I'm sure this will be great for some.
I think you made a very solid choice.
Deepmind 12(D) beats this any day.
@@huntergalloway3944 thank you.
The Deepmind doesn’t sound that good lol This completely destroys it. People just go for ir because it’s super cheap and analogue, which in this case really doesn’t mean anything, besides the fact you save money.
@@DNGMaestro Juno-x engine is Zen/abm, a rebranding of the 2 decades old supernatural engine, which runs limited VA algorithms. It’s effectively a rompler, sampled waveforms with limited dynamic sound sculpting. Roland went with abm because they can give it more poly than if they used their next gen acb. Deepmind runs on Curtis cloned 3340 VCO’s, effectively sequential clones, effectively 12 of their pro 1’s in a single poly: it’s an actual synth throughout. But hey, if you dig crippled VST’s, power to you. And, if you really want zen, just download the same engine in zenology pro and buy a surface pro 5.
kind of insane that my MC-101 i picked up used for $300 will basically make the exact same zen core sounds as a $2100 flagship synth. Roland why you so crazy
The Juno/Jupiter X Synths have additional „high end“ filter models (Roland, Moog, Sequential) that the pure Zencore machines (MC101/707, RD88 etc) are missing. Soundwise they open up another dimension, I would say, my Jupiter Xm has a way nicer sound than my RD88 piano with its 3000 Zencore-sounds. It‘s not night and day, but one step better…
@@bat-powmusic4925 Good to know. I have had my eye on the Xm for years. It sounds amazing and looks gorgeous
What makes the Juno X a hard sell in my mind is that the Jupiter models have a Juno already built into it, the Juno feels a bit redundant.
Thanks for the great review as always. Aaaaaaand, my GAS is back.
Thanks… though I don’t think it’s absurd. If you want Juno style sound design the panel works - for anything else it’s menus or the software
IMHO there are many digital ways to get "those" sounds for a LOT less dosh. As a core poly to cover a lot of bases the interface (particularly for multi patches) is terrible. Lots of great sounds possible, but for me personally there are more compelling paths available.
I mean, let’s face it, these synths are designed for folks who really like the Roland sounds in zencore AND really want a synth that looks like a Jupiter-8 or Juno-106 and will happily trade off a better interface for those looks…. Which is what I’m sticking with because I have a Jupiter-XM and this is how I justify it to myself :P.
But you are correct, there are cheaper ways to get these sounds and there are definitely better interfaces out there. I feel like the sounds *do* deliver, so at least you aren’t spending more for less. But you can spend less for the same so…. yeah.
I…I just like how it looks, k?
Such as....? :)
@@chateautemp for a broad coverage digital poly Hydrasynth goes more places and has a much better interface. Polybrute is a masterpiece. Used Prologue 16 is a steal right now for 16 voice analog. For studio if VST covers needs there are a fair few emulations which is all this is. TAL, Cherry, Arturia, Softube, U-He. Sorry, but for me Roland has not done anything new or interesting in a LONG time.
Does he keep this review unit? Or he returns it to Roland?
It's a modern day virtual digital 1's and 0's software instrument inside a hardware keyboard controller box.
I had a MC707 which was horrible to navigate due to the screen size, had Roland made something akin to The Force, MPC(s), SP16 7 inch screen, the unit would be a much more viable device.
Given the 3 examples I have given are as cheap to buy as a MC707, it seems Roland really missed the boat on how to integrate a proper UI for a machine like this.
I sold mine all due to the amount of squinting involved, the Juno and Jupiter versions seem perfect to how to integrate their UI.
Yes you still have a small screen, but you have knob per functions where on the MC707 you only had 3 assignable knobs per engine.
Zencore is a great engine, it deserves as much playability live as possible and that's what the Juno and Jupiter offer, at a price.
/End rant
Thx for the upload.
:D
The I-Arp thing seems like it'd be a lot of fun. I've been tempted to write something like it as an add-on daemon for my Force. I've already done a simple midi processing daemon to remap notes, and have been meaning to add rhythm and arp patterns anyway, so adding I-Arp style features would be the next logical step. It's not particularly difficult, since the Force runs Linux and uses alsa, so it can send/receive midi with any alsa program.
@@ToyKeeper I arpeggio is fun but at what cost?
I find myself asking the same q with my Wavestate, I get caught in a rut where my music seems to sound too similar if played where simple keys make lots of movement.
I feel like I am somewhat cheating myself.
@@dankeplace I plan on making it so the user can have as much or as little control as they want. So if they feel the algorithm is influencing things too much, they could just change it or turn it down.
I doubt that'll be much of a problem with my daemon though, since the Akai + mods architecture requires the user to set up the tracks first, and that requires making a lot of aesthetic decisions before the user can even start playing. Basically, there are no presets. So if anything, I suspect that the issue won't be that it's too easy or does too much... the issue will be that it takes too much effort.
@@ToyKeeper OK I re-read what you wrote, I'd be truly interested in this as I am looking for something that can alter rhythmic pace for my current hardware.
I keep looking for the perfect sequencer and I have a few, some I have gotten rid of but what you propose would be a game changer and would make The Force the brains of what I have.
I am trying to go all USB MIDI with The Force as I feel I have more control and don't need to worry too much about merging or 5 pin din MIDI cables back and forth.
How do I follow what you're doing? Is it on your channel?
I think we're all still waiting for an SH-X. The Jupiter X 101 model doesn't feel or sound like my SH-101 or Boutique and Behringer copies. All different. The original SH101 has something extra. This needs sorting out!
That was a difficult sell.
It does make an MPC keys more attractive though.
Agree, I've had my MPC Keys for a couple of weeks now and I'm blown away by it.
@@ianperesmusic how do you like the interface on the MPC?
what's the name of your oscilloscope overlay good man?
Hi, I use MOscilloscope and MAnalyzer by a company called Melda - they’re free with some limitations in the MFreeFXBundle. Occasionally I’ll use scopes by VCV
V-Synth interface is so much better than any modern Roland.
Great work, thank you for the sincerity of the test that shows the absurdity of this machine. I immediately cancel my order scheduled for late August
If you can't handle a 5 part multitimbral synth then avoid things like Omnisphere. It's really easy to use, but not for everyone I guess. Better you know now though.
Mmm... I don't know, I think the best bang for the buck is the Fantom 6. It includes the complete zen core engine, supernatural expansions, V-piano, Supernatural pianos, ABC modelling and Wavetables (you have to pay extra,), and and free Zencore models (for JD800, SH101, etc)., sequencer, TR programming, big color touch screen, analog filter, all the ins and out and more, etc. And if all zencore synths sound basically the same, I don't see any reason for the Jupiter or the Juno.
I wish they had an iPad app that was an editor
Magnifique
How would you compare Juno X and Jupiter X?
I address this in the video
Is it possible to get in touch over zoom with you for paid lesson on how to use this. I just got mine and I have bunch of questions. Let me know if we can book 1 hour zoom. Thanks
Thank you for offering, unfortunately that's not a service I offer
Can you please save me 100 hours of frustration. I’m trying for 2 days to figure how to access all drums in presets or banks.
For example how to access tr707 and record in daw. I’m beyond confused how to preview and access rhythm bank. I can’t believe I can’t figure out. Help me please🙏🏻🙏🏻
People like what they like but Is the allure of this to justify the price while not being analog just the 106 looks or is it zencore portability? If it's just full Zencore in a portable package, a better option is Zenology Pro on a Surface Pro PC tablet (which can also host any other plugin by any company and Roland's acb plugin (outs) versions (ACB sounds better). On the Surface pro, all controls, knobs, menu deep dives, and faders now have a 10x+ larger full color touch screen interface (solves one of his mentioned cons). Also you can also have your own samples (solved another one of his mentioned cons), kontakt libraries, and fully featured daw(s) running at the same time mounted and powering a 61 key midi controller of choice + money left for a real 6 voice analog dreadbox nymphes synth all portable, light and easily attached as one unit. This is most people's gripe beyond just it not being analog. There's just a better way of going about getting and controlling Zencore (a plugin) for the buck if it all sounds and is the same if the 106 shell look isn't your only concern. Analog would be great but if Roland's going to make digital, let's innovate. If Roland's going to make something that looks and costs analog, make it analog and stop the planned obsolescence foreplay.
Agreed on ACB Vs zen core sound wise. im not an audiophile by any means but ACB sounds far superior to my ears
I'm super frustrated with Roland for effectively dropping acb in favor of zen which is basically just a rebranding of the old supernatural engine. Zen sounds lifeless and runs negligible randomness algorithms.
@@alexwestconsulting absolutely agree. I wonder if the people buying or defending this have never tried Zenology Pro and are just going off the 106 looks. I have it and have never been blown away by the actual sound of Zencore. I prefer the roland plug outs hands down and there's been a couple CZcams comparisons that back that up as well.
@@randomaztec2208 Can't agree more! It's really easy to hear in all the models.
Great video as usual Loopop but I would have preferred a bigger version of the JU-06a with double the voices and no connection to the Zen Core engine.
The beauty of the Juno was in its simplicity, The whole "What you see is what you get" way of making sounds, Not this menu diving, over complicated, rent a sound nightmare. Just my opinion
No thanks
system 8 has the 60 and 106 plugins in acb rather than zen. i'd take that over a Juno-X any day.
@@alexwestconsulting Why? I'm not all that enamoured by any of the Roland's digital offerings but I want to be. I need a digital board with a Roland flavour (some analogue classics and JP8000 would be a good start) but it just seems like too many compromises or it's confusing or they price themselves out or all three. To my ears the difference between ACB and Zen-whatever seems small. At least in polyphonic models and patches. Might be difference with monophonic models. Would be curious to know why you think there is a big difference or where?
@@Screaming-Trees first, I love the Jp-8000. No joke, I have 3 JP-8080s. I love the supersaw. I love the interface. I love the phrase-sequenced patches that have a ton of movement. But the JP is old VA and doesn’t sound anything like real analogue. Zen is much closer to analogue than the JP. But that’s because Zen is basically playing samples waveforms. So is acb mind you. The difference is that acb runs randomness algorithms and the sounds themselves alter the other sounds, emulating analogue. Zen is basically just a rompler, with simple ability to adjust filter, VCA curves, etc. so if you do an A/B test of zen vs ACB, it’s not the waveform itself you should be listening to, because both nail that, it’s the randomness (or lack thereof), the tail end of each sound, and how the sounds interact. Zen has way more poly and is like 90% there (except for the drums, which are just pure samples), but if you did like the whole production in a zen Juno-X, all that lack of randomness adds up, and you end up with a lifeless track. Live, zen is fantastic, but for your recordings you should be going for the 100%, not the 90%. Zen is a rebranding of their supernatural engine that was a rebranding before that. It’s a rompler, last gen technology. It’s already antiquated, even if it sounds nice while being sterile. Acb is next gen and adds more life. Finally, Roland already released an “updated” Juno over 15 years ago called the Juno-G that’s so same, same as the Juno-X and after it’s initial success, it is now regarded as one of the biggest bombs of all time, almost all of them now falling apart and with dead lcd’s. Look it up.
@@alexwestconsulting Right so Zen isn't even a virtual analogue then? Not a synthesizer in other words? See, Roland's marketing is so confusing. I didn't know that, thanks.
I don't need real analogue I have that. I look at this board and I see a 5 octave keyboard with a reasonable looking control surface that could make for a decent out of box digital synth but it's just a rompler.
The system 8 on the other hand has a compromised keyboard (4 octaves and not standard size keys etc etc) and less polyphony. I don't know where any of that leaves me.
I love the JP8000. Yeah it's old technology but it's still pretty good digital. By pretty good I mean I'm only concerned about how something will fit into a track. If it sounds good in a track it's good.
How much polyphony do you get on a system 8 with these analogue models they sell?
Basically, from what it sounds like Roland doesn't make anything that I want exactly. I thought I could maybe replace Diva in my setup because I've been moving towards hardware more and it would save some CPU (and less screen time) but it doesn't sound like Roland is the answer to this. I rely on Diva for the Roland anthology where needed and the JP8000. I have lots of analogues so I'm less reliant on Diva for when I want analogue style sounds.
@@Screaming-Trees I'm being a bit unfair if I call it "just a rompler" because that's an old term that meant sample playback machines with limited memory that used sample looping to achieve sustain to a fault, had limited sound manipulation params and a terrible digital filter (if any). Zen is much better than that. But it is still that in principle and in many telling ways. And, again, acb is using sampled waveforms too, but is doing much more in the actual synthesizer domain. System 8 is only 8 note poly, which is a workable count (4 as on the boutiques is not), but limits stacking sounds and can obviously have note stealing artifacts. But remember, the old Juno's were like 6 voice, ,so if emulating a Juno is your end goal, 8 notes does it. With respect to acb vs zen, you don't go from 8 note polyphony to 256 note polyphony without seriously compromising the synth engine. That spec says it all. No, it doesn't sound 32 times better, especially since the Juno-X can stack, but it sounds enough better to me and my recordings that Zen doesn't cut it for me. But, again, Zen and the Juno-X are fantastic live options. Classic Juno is a pad machine as far as many are concerned. As a mono, there are many, many better, cheaper options. And, as a poly, I use a Deepmind 12 for classic Juno emulation. That's a pad machine too. I use my mono's for mono lines. But I have some acb synths (System 1, System 1m, JP-08, TR-6s, JX-03) and I am confident enough in them that I'll be getting a System-8. Not so in Zen. I'd say that IF you want those sounds and are ok with Zen, Roland JX-08 is a decent option, 20 note poly with 2 voice stacking, and use your own keybed. JX-08 is a fifth the price of the Juno-X, gets you Zen engine, good poly and couple voices to stack, and cuts out a ton of the bloat. Even I might get one of those.
So, it is an ideal synthesizer for those who professionally create music and those with the GAS syndrome, but not for synth lovers;)
Correct.
I had an XP80 back in the day and hated that things interface....theyll probably re-issue it !