FFBeast - Force Feedback Stick Review - Why I am NEVER Going Back to a Regular Joystick | DCS
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- 📌 FFBeast: ffbeast.github.io/docs/en/joy...
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⏱ Timecodes
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Channel Intro
1:00 - Why is Force Feedback Important?
1:56 - Force Feedback Limitations
3:06 - FFBeast Overview
5:09 - Non-FBW Jets
9:50 - Fly-By-Wire Jets
12:11 - Warbirds
15:05 - Helicopters
18:01 - Downsides of Force Feedback
20:46 - FFBeast Software
22:52 - Conclusion
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🎥 Watch my other FFBeast Force Feedback stick videos:
Flying Warbirds with a FORCE FEEDBACK Stick is Incredible! | DCS - FFBeast: • Flying Warbirds with a...
Flying With a Force Feedback Stick in DCS is AMAZING | MiG-29A: • Flying With a Force Fe...
Flying Helicopters with a Force Feedback Stick is AMAZING! | DCS Huey - FFBeast: • Flying Helicopters wit...
The ULTIMATE Helicopter Control Set Up in DCS!:
• The ULTIMATE Helicopte...
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This is a full video review of FFBeast - a full force feedback stick that can be tuned differently for each aircraft and helicopter. The FFBeast software allows for additional effects to be applied to each aircraft and fine-tuned... everything from AoA buffet to speedbrake and landing gear vibrations, to landing jolts on touch down etc.
I have no experience with VP Force Rhino however I believe the main difference is in construction - FFBeast is all metal and generates more force than VPC Force Rhino.
Force Feeback is absolutely transformational to the flight controls feel of every module but it especially transforms Warbirds and Helicopters in DCS. It works in DCS World, MSFS, IL-2 Sturmovik, Warthunder, Condor2 and Xplane in the very near future.
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Trackir 5
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AMD 3950X OC @ 4.3GHz
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#dcsworld #forcefeedback #dcswarbirds #forcefeedbackflightsimulator #forcefeedbackjoystick - Hry
📌 FFBeast: ffbeast.github.io/docs/en/joystick.html
⏱ Timecodes
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Channel Intro
1:00 - Why is Force Feedback Important?
1:56 - Force Feedback Limitations
3:06 - FFBeast Overview
5:09 - Non-FBW Jets
9:50 - Fly-By-Wire Jets
12:11 - Warbirds
15:05 - Helicopters
18:01 - Downsides of Force Feedback
20:46 - FFBeast Software
22:52 - Conclusion
Ill never forget being in COMPUSA when they had 20 joysticks lined up 20 years ago, and most of them were force feedback. Was amazing. When i got older you could not get one.
I had the same problem. Had a MS one back in the day, and quite enjoyed it. Hopefully this and DCS reinvigorates the market.
Patent expiring helps . Also, great review!
Just a note: the VPForce Rhino is another FFB stick to take a look at. I’ve had one for a few months and it’s amazing. I’d really like to see a comparison between the two.
I miss the Microsoft force feedback joysticks. I loved flying with those!! Nothing has ever came close to those.
Man, there just needs to be a quality option in the $400-$600 range.
I think the DIY version of FFBeast falls within that range. And the VPForce Rhino too? 🤷♂️
@@CommandT uhm... getting only that metal cut can cost you up to 800€ depending where you live ofc :D
@@mrpawno4955 And it can be way-way less depending where you live as well :)
@@Propeler3D yes, you’re right of course. Maybe I should buy the metal Parts from you?
@@CommandT if there was a diy kit that included all the components I’d have no problem paying that, but it looks like there is maybe a lot of sourcing in their diy kits?
How long is the stick extension you have mounted? Whats the total movable angle?
I use a 5cm extension and that’s mounted to the base which in itself already has an extension of around 5cm as well. So I reckon it’s approx 10cm lever arm in total. Regarding deflection angle - I would balm park 45 degrees or so
@@CommandT It is +/- 20, so 40 is a real throw.
OMG OMG, CommandT flying a Viggen ! I can feel the Kola hype ! Awesome video, sir !
Ha. Yep. Viggen and Kola are coming. 💪
Still have my Microsoft sidewinder force feedback 2 from 22 years ago and works great but this certainly looks like a worthy upgrade
Agreed still got mine also
love mine too
The A4 Skyhawks would be a fun mod to try with this stick
Great review! It's been so long that I didn't even know this company existed.
Great video! Def have this on my list
Thanks!
I'd love to have the money and time to try something like this!! In a few years hopefully.
I remember when Microsoft released their ffb joystick. Pc world used to have demos setup where you could press different buttons on the stick and feel what ffb was all about. I was sold straight away and bought one. I absolutely loved it. Really surprised there aren't more
Because companies like Immersion Corporation (allegedly) are hoarding the patents and won't let people mass produce them.
You can still do it. You just need windows xp.
The lightsaber demo for that stick was cool.
I really like my Realsimulator FSSB for fly by wire jets but it lacks feel in regular ones. I'd love to try one of these!
I don't need convincing fellow. Years ago I bought Microsofts force feedback joystick, absolutely brilliant. I was playing SBK 2000, and was having trouble doing a fast lap. After purchasing my FFB joystick, not only was I quickly doing fast laps, I had the Ducati power sliding through corners like I was Mick Doohan. FFB completely transformed my experience playing SBK 2000.
Awesome video! 😀
Thanks!
While not as good as the MS FFB2 and certainly not as good as an FFBeast or VPForceRhino, I quite enjoy my second hand G940 for this reason.
It was Logitech’s flagship HOTAS when launched in 2009, but was a commercial failure. Functionally, it has some durability issues (wires breaking) and can suffer from input hysteresis. However, there is a 3rd party firmware update which fixes the latter. The stick (unlike the throttle and rudder pedals) can function as a stand-alone unit, so that makes it easier to mix and match equipment.
Still have my G940 in the basement. Was great when Black Shark first launched. It was my goto stick for DCS but eventually went to a center sprung VKB NXT. Do not fly enough to get it back out and figure out why I stopped using it.
i hold bunch of MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 Joysticks. some collected from ebay and other private portals.
F5 is my go to in DCS... I need this stick lol
To deal with it's size for helos, I'd build a base for my rig to boost everything up a foot to give more room for realistic cyclic extensions. This would help with the Warthog too, if you have a long extension.
The es exactly, you can do that but obviously this takes a bit of effort
Force Feedback is the biggest improvment i got. you can feel preassure point on hali.. you can feel weight. you can even feel bumps on the diffrent airfied
note. reasons we dont see it. it because logetic since the force feedback sticks have most of the trademark
Great informative video. I miss the days of FFB. Not sure if the beast is right for me due to space constraints, but it makes me wonder if I can make it work… 🤔
Ha yeah indeed!
Mine is about to ship out. I also have the VPRhino shipping out, so I will have a real comparison
Wow! You aren’t hanging around haha
I’ve got a Rhino and I’d love to see a head to head comparison!
@@Hackspear214 I’ll make sure to write a comparison maybe even make a video. Both seem to be great products
Can you tune to have a break through area? Curious if you can simulate the elastic limit break for the mirage
No, this is something that needs to come directly from Razbam, and it doesn’t as far as I can tell. I think there’s some DirextX limitations too. But no, Unfortuntaly not atm.
I need one of those!
This looks great. Can you do a video on how to setup with a VKB joystick?
I can’t as I don’t have a VKB joystick but all you need is the right adapter for it. Just tell which stick you have when purchasing and you’ll have the right adapter
Nice to see some high altitude Viggen flying.
Ha!
A long time ago I had a MS Sidewinder I and later the II.. I played a lot of IL2-Sturmovik (first one). It felt awesome... I always thought it was kinda dumb that joystick manufacturers moved away from FF (I do get it, niche market, expensive toys, but it just feels like we took such a big step backward in that respect). I haven't been able to enjoy flightsimming with a center spring... I miss a of info... This just might me get back to flightsimming again.. It's 'just slightly' outside my budget, so I might have a go at building one myself...
It has nothing to do with market. There is a patent troll who has sued MS and every other FFB manufacturer for the past 20 years. FFBeast is a different design that gets around the patent.
@@wurzzzz Didn't know that... That's annoying... Thanks for the info.. Learned something today...
Thanks. I have been waiting for a FFB Controller. I'm losing my vision. I hope i can get one before I lose my vision completely
Sorry to hear that 😟
@@CommandT Thank you 😊
You should check out Brunner. And the CLS-E Mk II base. It’s definitely more money but I think probably covers any complaints you had. I believe it has an actively resettable center too? I don’t have one. Review it lmao
Try playing with the saturation instead of the curves for helo’s. You can make the movement of the stick give less input to the actual control input without having to worry about the sensitivity at all certain trim point as it would be linear. You would loose some of the max range of the control but flying a help you don’t use that anyway
Yes but I don’t want to loose the max range of the deflections! It’s a compromise though I agree
Does look superb and super tempted, but I hope some sort of commercially more available product comes out....larger production could get costs down a fair bit, plus more peace of mind for warranty and no customs _ taxes to deal with with international delivery. I really miss my old MS Force feedback stick
and of course I wish I was good at DIY too. I dont mind the building kits part, but cutting/metal etc - ie stuff where have to use my brain a bit more....hopeless :)
Yeah that’s fair. I also do like the idea of something that is just plug and play! Once more and more people get into I think we will start to see mass production.
I doubt price could be cut down fair bit. You could look at simracing market. The cheapest FFB bases with 10Nm+ there cost 500+ Eur. And you need basically to combine 2 of them and add some mechanics to get FFB joystick. Only DIY-ing could help to cut costs there.
@@midnight7297 I hope DIY community will be growing and there will be more people who could just help you to build it. As will not be able to satisfy all demand in any case :)
@@Propeler3D oh very true, its not about the price really, more about the confidence to DIY. I started with my own authentikit but gave up early on as couldn't calibrate my 3d printer to perfection which it needs....so the thought of metalwork just scares me lol....but - framing/cutouts aside, I bet the build itself if had all components would be fun. Maybe in future build kits could be sold :)
I hope they add support for Winwing sticks. If they do that, I would be very tempted to get it.
For now I don’t think so however I’ve asked the developer. I’ll get back to you if they plan on implementing that soon.
What collective are you using for the helicopter portion of the video?
Virpil MH60 one
I was thinking about preordering one how long did it take to get yours?
Atm as far as I’m told it’s at least a year waiting time. I got mine before anyone else almost for a review.
Need one for the AH64
Damn man< I really did not need more diy projects in the pipeline...
Yep, they are great, been using a DIY yoke and stick for over a year. All the best.
They are > they(a)re > they're.
@@MrFloppyHare 😁
@@MrFloppyHareLet people > write the way > they want to write.
@@Hackspear214 What a ridiculous notion. There, they’re and their mean something completely different. It has nothing to do with “how people want to express themselves” or “want to write”.
Tell me more about this diy yoke
Do you know if FFB is looking to support WinWing grips in the future? I've fallen in love with their hats, material, and surface. Still a tempting offer to keep my Orion 2 with F-16 grip on the side, have a Thrustmaster F-18 grip in the middle. Would just need an force sensing base for the side lmao
WinWing protocol is closed and proprietary. I will not be "hacking" and I doubt WinWing will open their protocol to me. So to connect WinWing you will need original WinWing controller
I’ve asked the developer. I’ll get back to you 👍
Any plans to purchase the VPForce FFB Stick to do a comparison video? I wonder if Walmis will send you a stick for free as well?
No plans I’m afraid. I’m pretty happy using FFBeast for now.
For DIY Rhino is far superior due to 3D printed closure and availability of different part kits which ship immediately.
Great video! Can you please share your profiles for FFB Commander?
For which aircraft?
I hope you try flying the Heatblur F4 when it comes out in a couple of weeks
Absolutely! Can’t wait to see what it’s like 👍
Welcome to what Microsoft force feedback 2 joystick did 24 years back. Back then there were Sims that naturally supported force feedback. The feeling I got back then I have never felt again. Sadly the gaming development companies killed these joysticks by stopping to support them. I still have 2 Microsoft force feedback joysticks and I only use them for gaming Sims
Wasn't it some company holding on to a patent to block companies from building them?
amazing, I've never heard of force feedback stick before (with all the legal IP that i read about), how does DCS recognize how much pressure to push you hand and at which situation? is this already preprogrammed by the developers in anticipation of FFB joystick compatibility? I am very jealous of your setup!
I believe that as part of designing the flight model, all the information needed for the forces involved are generated. They simulate the force of the wind on the flight controls which should, as a by product, provide the amount of force working on the stick. This is an informed guess though. The Rhino includes software that provides extra effects like the stick shaking when guns are fired, elevator droop, improved stall effects, etc. It computes these from the telemetry DCS provides.
Not all the force feedback is modelled in each module as the forces are not necessarily related to pure aerodynamics from a programming point of view. So it varies model to model, and hence why the stick software offered it’s own force feedback that can be tuned on top of what each module offers
@@CommandT Very true. I only fly warbirds and am spoiled by DCS’s built in support. I sometimes forget there are other kinds of aircraft!
Does the F14 module have FFB? Seems that would be the jet which would benefit most...
I don’t fly it but yes it does! Supposedly it’s pretty good
Has the best FFB in-game.
I’m extremely interested in the DIY, but what is a true estimated total cost? Anything near 5-6 hundred is a 100% pull the trigger for me.
Also is there an associated discord or group of people interested in building and currently building these things?
Yep, FFBeast has a discord
hopefully i get mine in the next time.....how long is the waiting time??
A year atm
What kind of 5 cm extension do you use?
I had the opportunity to fly an F-16. The stick was, of course, fly by wire. It did not provide any forced feedback, in fact it was very stiff and hardly moved at all.
Just some FYI purposes only.
Was the idea to make it easier to control the plane in high G situations? As in the pilot doesn't have to physically move their arm as much?
That was my basic take away. My father was an F-4 pilot in Vietnam. The F-4 had no fly by wire system and he said the faster you flew, the tighter the stick got. The F-16 was entirely different from that, it took a little getting used to (being on the side as opposed to center), but you could see how in high-g situations, when you can barely move yourself, that it was an advantageous ergonomics.
It felt like the stick was stiff, but the more pressure you applied, the more the plane would turn. The controls were sensitive, so required fine motor skills. It’s tough to explain, but that’s my best attempt.
Yeah this system is really not intended to replicate a pressure stick like the F-16. That’s a different concept
Whats it feel like flying a more modern aircraft with relatively no center detent?
Feels great 👍
One thing to look at on the issue you mentioned about the joystick becoming disconnected after a period of time of inactivity is the Windows USB Power Management settings. It's hard to fully explain over a CZcams comment, but by default Windows power manages USB devices which simply means it turns them off after a period of inactivity.
Through the Windows device manager, you can disable this 'fuction' so Windows no longer power manages the device which means it should never be turned off. Might not be the issue here, but Windows Power Management has certainly caused quite a few issues for me in the past!
Thanks for all the videos on the Force Feedback stuff, I'm definitely tempted to get one myself.
Thanks! I actually already investigated this potential problem/ solution but Unfortuntaly I don’t think that was it. Thanks for the suggestion anyways though!
what grips it's compatible with? is Winwing grips compatible? thanks.
Winwing was not mentioned on FFBeast website unfortunately.
As someone who grew up on FF sticks, I cannot tell you all how much you're missing out on.. Even just doing ww2online, or MSCS 123, let alone a helo. Its game changing. how the industry went away from this and we are not up in arms is beyond me. We need FF sticks ASAP!!!
"[...] how the industry went away from this and we are not up in arms is beyond me": Mostly due to some company hugging the patent for FFB for way too long and at a price too insane for consumer controls.
Did Heatblur F14 have full force feedback return?
It does apparently, though I don't fly it.
Can you demonstrate in Warthunder as well, please?
I don’t have Warthunder I’m afraid and I struggle for time so might not be able to, sorry 😞
Now we need force feedback ruddel pedals.
Just imagine that with a VR headset, that would really put the immersion high
Yes indeed!
Thats exactly how I have been playng. Its like being a real pilot
How is the force feedback support in MSFS?
It exists, but I haven’t tested it properly.
This joystick simulates the vibrations produced by the engine in piston airplanes and the vibration of the rotor in helicopters?
So I actually enquired about this as well with helicopter pilots - you don’t have appreciable vibrations through the cyclic, when flying around in a helicopter. If you do… then something is going wrong.
With regards to piston aircraft - same idea… you generally don’t have vibrations in the stick itself during normal operation. But maybe FFBeast can add an effect for a small vibrations to be there all the time when operating a warbird. Generally though I don’t think that’s necessary… maybe when half your wing is missing or the engine is misfiring blandly but atm we don’t have that… vibrations come when the rest of your cockpit is vibrating during buffet or stall ect. On landing - there’s a constant vibration from the wheels going over the tarmac - that’s an effect for all aircraft.
It is only a mater of adding such effect in software. Joystick just produces torque. And it do not care if it is vibration or spring. I'm working on software constantly. And additional vibrations on different events are on roadmap as well. Even so them are not present on stick IRL my goal to satisfy as much user wishes as possible :)
@@CommandT When the engine is at low revolutions it usually generates vibrations in the stick, as the revolutions increase they tend to disappear and become more subtle
@@Propeler3D Another effect that would be great is that when the plane is stationary on the ground, by increasing or reducing the engine revolutions, the propwash causes the stick move to the center or forward according to the engine revolutions.
You should just get a tactile bass shaker like a buttkicker to get those kind of vibrations.
where in Cauc is the test range shown at 1:26?
Nowhere. I made it myself in the mission editor 🙂
@@CommandT Im tryna look for that exact spot on the map bacause of that forest line
Lol love the random stiffness gigiddy jokes
How is the mig-21?
Haven’t got it I’m afraid
The huge build size might be a problem for me
Yeah I agree that having to accommodate the big base does impose some restrictions on one’s set up.
Unfortunately physics is playing against us there. You either have big motor, or weak motor :( I can make gimbal really small. But is impossible to find motor with high torque in small form factor.
The human body responds better to displacement mode in high stress situations where reaction time is important, force feedback is better for general conditions.
Great video. Your data on the hornet is inaccurate. There is an increasing stick force per G above 22aoa but that affects the aircraft performance, not the stick force as such. The control box in the hornet is a bunch of springs and dampeners, that's it, no force from the fcs back it. What it manifests itself in is needing a larger deflection (therefore force) above 22aoa.
I learned to fly in MS FlightSim in the early 90's with my force feedback stick. It was such a boon when I went for real lessons right afterwards. I do not understand why they went away, they should have improved greatly over time.
Yep it’s bizarre! But on the plus side… they are coming back!
I was hoping to see how the F-14 worked with the FFBeast. Can you comment on that?
Unfortunately I don’t have the F-14. I can only imagine it would be awesome though!
@@CommandT thanks for the reply though. I appreciate it.
Do you know how much the base weighs?
I don’t I’m afraid. I didn’t weigh it. It’s bloody heavy though.
The real hornet’s stick absolutely does move when you adjust the trim.
Not sure why it’s not modeled in DCS.
Are you sure?
@@CommandT yup. 100%. Done it many times.
what about force feedback in the harrier?
It works pretty well.
Haven’t tried it but can’t imagine it will be any worse than any of the other aircraft I’ve tried!
I fully agree that getting tectile feedback about what's happening in the simulation is not only fun and immersive, it is also incredibly useful.
I personally use a Simshaker Jetpad that delivers many of the indicators you mention besides the uniquely stick-related info. I would very much recommend the Jetpad for gamers who want to add this feedback, especially because it is quite a bit more affordable.
Yeah that’s pretty cool too!
It’s made in russia, so a hard no for me. Just my opinion.
Yep, It's VERY good at what it does! I bought mine around five years ago. Andre is a cool guy and has been a great asset to the flightsim community. Made in Russia.......who cares. It's made by a Russian citizen, trying to make a living, doing something he's passionate about.........NOT the Russian Gov't 🙄 Hell, DCS was originally made in Russia and most of the shit we use in our everyday lives in this country, is made in China 🤔😂 Love my Jetseat by Andre! Flying without it, feels bland. It's amazing how self-righteous some of us (US, UK, etc citizens) get, while completely ignoring all of the bloodshed and other corrupt shit our own Gov't has and continues to perpetrate all over the globe!!! Just my opinion ✌🏾
Can't wait to add a FFB stick to my already awesome setup (VR, motion, etc). Now it's just a matter of waiting for which one is available first, this or the Rhino. On the waiting list of both 🙂
@@redtailpilot I’m not American cowboy, nor a Brit. Who cares?……I do. If you want to shrug off what the russians are doing, nobody’s stopping you. Ironic that you can rant about people being self righteous, yet you can make lazy excuses for the russians and chinese to make yourself feel better. Just because you’re ignoring the crap your country is responsible for doesn’t mean everyone is. Have a …. day.
Direct drive FFB sticks when...
I have FFBeast. Are you able to share your profile for UH-1H?
Sure, just send me your email or contact me on Instagram and I’ll send you my Huey profile. @command_tango
Is there significant cogging effect you can feel?
Nope, zero
@@CommandT great to hear!
as THE viggen guy i would absolutely kill to fly the viggen with ffb
Yeah it feels great with FFB 😃
really a labour of love......not to mention the "DIY" option!!
I still use an MS FFB2 and really can't understand why there's so no attention to the flightsim market, even after the MSFS success, the upcoming successor and, on the other side, how insane is the FFB market for driving simulation!!!
Wondering if the software can be made compatible with old FFB, directX based, stick....giving them a second life 😅
These are all using the same directx drivers. You can use those no problem in dcs, I had logitech ffb sticks and now I have microsoft ffb2 and they all work the same. The reason this one is so much better is because its kind of like comparing a old microsoft wheel with 180 degree rotation to a csl dd and tryng to drive a 900 degree of steering wheel car with the 180 degree wheel versus using a 900 degree wheel with a 900 degree car. So that means if your going to put the software of a csl dd on a microsoft sidewinder steering wheel it wont magically turn it into a csl dd
@@mr.simulator4724 absolutely, never thought that....and i hope some change in the flightsim peripheral market
Yeah I expect more people to get into this soon. It’s so much extra immersion. I agree it’s crazy it’s taking this long for this to come to flight simulation!
I like openffboard
Please redo the Finnish Hornet demo with the force feedback joystick.
I’ll do a hornet demo with it for sure. Might do the Finish one since we are getting the Kola map too!
I would argue especially in case of Helos and Warbirds is that a FF Rudder system would realllllllyyyy change the game for you but having both.. .Mmmmm yyaaaa..
Yeah I imagine especially for warbirds that would defo make a great deal of difference! Might get some!
Are those scooter motors?
Haha 😆
It's absolutely nothing like how a real helicopter feels. Suggest you do an intro flight to see for yourself.
I will but I’ve also spoken to multiple helicopter pilots who confirmed what I have is correct 🤷♂️ Can you tell me what in your opinion is not right?
@@CommandT Because PC desktop sims are still very basic compared to the real thing.. Flying a helicopter is all about feel, with sims unless they are Level-D or above you have none of that feeling that you get from a real helicopter. Often first sign of an issue is an unusual feeling an odd vibration from the normal motion. When you transition into and out of ground effect it's all feel. Desktop sims are basic, feels more like you are just flying a camera around with 6 DOF wrapped in a graphic that looks and sounds like a helicopter.
In that video you're making almost no rudder or collective inputs even though you're transitioning into a hover and landing. You need to experience real helicopter for yourself, take a intro flight at a local flight school.
I'm sold! Now to rob a bank and spend the next 10 years convincing my wife I need a sim room.
Ha! The wife needs to go if she doesn’t let you have a sim room 😆
Are you related to Crash Laobi?
Nope. Strange why you would think so 😆
Maybe your sense of humour 🤷🏻♂️
We do miss him.
How about f16?
F-16 is a pressure stick so it’s pretty unique… I would suggest looking into F-16 pressure stick bases instead
It really is a a shame that Microsoft sabotaged Joysticks in general with the launch of xbox and their changes to input API that conformed to just generic xbox configuration gamepads in windows. I really inhibited joystick compatibility and made making hardware for them depend on developing emulation software that simulated multiple gamepads and distribute inputs to them.
Funny, how il2 back then and DCS are the only games that actually has any good ffb. MSFS should get the lead out and implement ffb. Still using an old logi 940 here. FFB in flightsims is just crusial for epic enjoyment.
Yep!
viggen get thumb up
Idle joystick disconnect smells of usb power saving in windows
I checked - doesn’t seem to be the case.
Oh dear. I love it. Better sell something....
Haha
About downsides of the stick. In reality f-18 and modern jets have really high centering force. Up to 17kg at max deflection (in hornet). I see that you have very small force set (plus dampers) - thats why you have loose center.
I also think that FFBest is so much precise, and movement with 10cm extension is so much travel, that there is no need to setting curvature. I have totally linear way i all aircrafts and 0 problems with that but benefits. Moreover in such precise device adding curvature causes less precision because travel for small adjustment is too big.
I have problem to airrefuel with f-18, because i have loose center and curvature. Lets try to increase forces to get strong center and remove curvature. I do not have so much precise during refueling ever.
Interesting that the forces are so high. Is that written somewhere? But of course the lever arm on the real F-18 is a lot longer than 10cm. That’s why my force is so much lower.
@@CommandT 17kg is more than FFBeast can produce, so in max deflection you should have max FFBeast power :D. I am not setting it so high but in about 70%. It costs some muscle power but don't we want realism as simmers? ;). And in my opinion if you used to it then precision is amazing - because of muscle memory
Gigity.
I too really liked my sidewinder two FF, but about a year ago it stopped working with xPlane and MsFS, even with a licensed paid for version of FSForce. It just shuddered in a steady rythm, no matter what adjustments I made. So I bought a Rhino FF, and it's in a different class alltogether. Much more force and very detailed feedback. czcams.com/video/WynUFVw73QA/video.html
I know Mick rode the Honda, and Casey rode the Ducati. I am a little biased, Mick is a five time world champion.
One major issue, apart from affordability, is that most are right-handed. For the main a/c I fly I need a "neutral" (or left-handed).
you can use any stick with a "normal" thread (for example all sticks from Thrustmaster or Virpil, VKB), so this is no issue
@@Manu_Air228 Nice, thanks. II need to shop around for a "simple" one: I'm not doing DCS, I want PTT, trim, a/p off. That's it.
899 eurs hurts
There’s a much cheaper DIY version too 👍
Modern combat jets don't do force feed back .At least the modernones Fly by wire.Unless it simulates force feedback which I doubt.
90% of aircraft that are in DCS have feedback IRL..
I think the word “force feedback” is misunderstood. The point is that an FFB stick can replicate either the feeling of a warbird or a FBW jet, in completely different ways. In other words the “feel” of that system. So that’s why it’s very much a thing, and cannot be replicated with a spring loaded joystick.
It might be useful and nice to "feel" your aircraft but there's no realistic reason for a jet with electric/hydraulic controls to have a force feedback. The idea is kinda odd, unlike on WW2 aircrafts.
Remains a bit expensive too... hopefully it works differently from the older gen belt force feedback HOTAS.
very much wrong. Almost all jets that are in DCS have some kind of feedback IRL. Helis have force trim, which is also only realistic with a ffb stick. There are really 4 or 5 jets out there where it does not make that much sense..
Disagreed sorry, FFB can create a much more realistic feeling FCS even on FBW jets. But of course on Warbirds is where it shines for sure
jets don have any feedback, other then spring re-centering simulating an out of trim situation.
This is not entirely true as it depends on whether or not the jet is FBW and whether or not the FBW system has any artificial feedback.
I think the concept is misunderstood. The point is not that it has feedback like driving a car with manual steering. It’s the fact that every plane has unique loading on the flight controls, irrespective of whether there is or is no feedback. And that’s what a force feedback stick gets you.
@@CommandT total bs jets have no feedback , none , might have artificial fell getting heavier or lighter depending on speed and trim position.
Have been flying them for over 25 years military and civilian, fbw or conventional doesn matter, if the flight control is non reversible there is no feedback.F-5 m2000 b737 b757 b767 b777