I find it rather hilarious that the way the footage is framed (literally speaking), professor Peterson is in the corner, the margin, while you, Jonathan are in the center. I know this may have zero symbolic significance, but it's funny to me because in a way, Jordan willingly plunged into the chaos and through being a sort of marginal figure (the Kermit image) is bringing back the Logos from the dead past. You are striving for the same goal, but though being closer to the center (in terms of church tradition) by being an icon carver. Oh, well, the two of you made me see symbolism, archetypes and meaning everywhere. For this I am infinitely grateful.
@@thewholesomegrail6722 Wow, your reply has stirred up my brain on topics I hadn't thought about for a long time. Thanks, will think again about symbolism now when writing my poems.
Poetry of Chaos and Order that’s awesome 👏 I find myself rewatching both JP’s (Jordan and Jonathan) videos when I need inspiration as well. Inversion and symbolism are really rearing their heads as we get into 2020 and I’m sure a poet like yourself can dig into it to find some kind of meaning and poetry among it all. Best wishes and stay safe my friend 🙇
Lately I think about the idea of the Logos all the time, what the inner life of Christ was like, and what it means to try to embody this Logos in myself. I feel truly transformed by this. When I pray I pray to know only the perfect, eternal love that Paul wrote about. I’m almost hesitant to say it but I will; i feel reborn. I am leaving to stay at a monastery for an observership very soon. I owe a lot to Jonathan for helping to solidly this calling in me. He articulated what I thought was ineffable with his insistence of a symbolic worldview, and brought to life Christianity for me with his illumination of the Logos. It’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Thank you all those catastrophic ideas of post modernism are invading so quickly the eastern Orthodox societies. It is very helpful for us to see how you dealt with all those issues. Greetings from Orthodox Cyprus
I had a friend who converted to Russian Orthodox for precisely this reason. My father found his soul in the great art of Byzantine Greece. He was from South Carolina.
0:19 Thank you Toronto *Listening to JBP* 0:30 A Story: Jordan B. Peterson 1:53 “He’s Dancing across a wide variety of references... He wants to trace this underlying pattern” 2:31 “So he talks about Logos, which is truth, meaning...” • Jonathan Pageau is amazed *Meeting JBP* 4:45 John reaches out to Jordan 5:30 “I think I acted like a 14 year old speaking with Kanye West” 9:00 St. Maximus The Confessor • “All things have a Logos. A Purpose” • The Logi’s are woven together into a Web of Meaning. They exist as we come together. A sunset has a set of logi, coming together to form an experience 11:54 Man is The Microcosm of The Cosmos. (Birth, Life, Death)
This is so exciting to me! Because I’ve been listening to Jonathan and Jordan in the last year or two and I find them magnetic brilliant amazing and they open my mind to so much of God. I see they first met here six years ago. That was the work of the Holy Spirit for sure! These two are going to change the world. There’s a beginnings of an amazing thing coming. I’m so excited to have found this!
hi, i discovered you thanks to your interview with dr peterson. i am really impressed by the clarity of your thinking. i'll follow you from now. a french agnostic guy who is seriously intellectually challenged by christian intellectuals
This is an amazing talk. I hope there will be more videos from you coming up in the future. Whatever happens, the Logos will triumph, because any other outcome is inconceivable. Still, I think we really need well articulated and deep thinkers like yourself to speak up in order to bring increasing order in the chaos of the internet and of people's life.
Someone smarter than me needs to compare this logos explanation to quantum mechanics where a particle is really a fuzzy non-local wave until it’s observed. Chaos into order. This and the holographic universe are very basically described in the Netflix documentary, Einstein’s Quantum Riddle, 55m. I’ve been very interested as an amateur in how the various disciplines prove out God and God characteristics. I was excited to see Stephen Meyers new book about the 3 experiments in cellular biology that show us Intelligent Design, “Return of the God Hypothesis”. As far as patterns go, you also have fractals (Mandelbrot ) in Math. Fascinating stuff.
Wonderful talk, Jonathan! When you were looking for a word for the combination of multiple logoi, I thought about the network of pomegranates that Solomon created to adorn the entryway of the Temple. It's like a super-constellation of meaning, with each star being a galaxy at higher resolution. A neuronal network of insights reaching for the Divine Pattern of Christ, the Eternal Logos. The Temple is the Tabernacle, and that pattern--envisioned by Moses on the Mountain-- is the ideal Mind/Heart Pattern of Christ. The Perfect Psyche, if you will, which beckons all to climb.
Sencillo y al grano. Dios quiera que quienes dicen conocer a Dios y quienes no le conocen lo puedan entender a profundidad. Escuchar a JP y Jonathan me ayudó a romper con la religiosidad en que muchas veces caemos, entendiendo lo que precisamente acá explica.
This speech was wonderful. Although I have been following your videos for more than a year now, this one really "connected many dots". The idea that identity has to be ultimately connected to a transcendent principle, otherwise it will inevitably result in sin. Since the events Ukraine, there has been much talk about the rising "multipolar world", but I fear it may be a case of identities stopping short of that vision. There is talk about a world of different civilizations coexisting, but what will be the common ground, the unifying principle? What is the common ground between communist China and Bhutan or India? We saw what happened with Tibet. Of a Russia trying to present itself as a sort of "bastion of Orthodoxy" and the liberal European Union? We are seeing the war in Ukraine. This is not a defense of American hegemony, which could be seem as a parody of such common ground or unifying principle and ended up in countless wars and death. What will be "the" Pole of this multipolar world? What will bring these different civilizations together?
My question is how the fuck we know what we do when we for instance consider the ancient texts or icons? We see things in them that aren't necessarily self-evident in superficial features, yet we see them so clearly and brightly it's distrubing.
The scripture is not comprehensible unless you quote the entire passage. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life and the lif was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness does not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. The same came for a witness of the Light that all men through him might believe. He was not that light but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which lights every man that comes into the world. He was in the world and the world was made by Him and the world knew Him not. He came unto His own and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him to them He gave the power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on His name which was born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried saying, This was He of whom I spoke, He that comes after me is preferred before me and He was before me. And of His fulness have all we received and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at anytime; the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father. He has declared it. Shalom in Jesus.
Wonderful stuff! I was intrigued by the notion that reality is not fully in its true character unless every related logi is aligned to make the aggregate of logi into a whole logos. I hope I understood him correctly. In another video, Mr. Pageau was talking about levels of symbolisms encaptured in one icon and I wondered if the two ideas were related. Would it be too big a leap to understand symbolism and logos as two sides of the one coin, the two serving only to link reality with the awareness of it. Somewhere in this articulation is the point of it all, which I assume is to express a value system that reflects 'true' life. Must we resurrect the logos? Are logos and postmodernism our only choices? I am an atheist with Judeo-Christian morality. Might not secular humanism replace my moral set or am I kidding myself that humanist values are actually different from Judeo-Christian values. Anyway, thanks for so much food for thought!
Brendan Tannam : the logos translate the Lord of Lord's and the king of king's for God is Love without partiality. " My Peace I give to you", not as the world gives you the understanding of it :)
This was an extremely interesting discussion, especially when it comes to the issue of the Logos. Is the Logos limited to an idea, a pillar of truth, a generic rationally evaluated flow of virtue? (This is what Voltaire, Robispierre, and the Freemason secularists of the French Revolution believed). Or is the Logos a Person, that is the spiritual flow of truth and information in God coming to us from the unseen world in the next dimension beyond our 5 senses? And here is where this discussion of the Logos then leads. Can the Logos be ramped up as a living vital real-time personal guiding Truth in concert with the Spirit of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph to become Rhema? The Biblical promise is given that at the end of the saga there wil be those who give worth-ship to God in Spirit as well as in Truth. One is left brain (Truth), and the other right brain, (Spirit). Perhaps even male and female, both complementing each other and in harmony. In the Biblical sense Rhema is the spiritually energized and personally delivered real-time guiding information of the Logos. Rhema is the spiritually energized personally delivered Logos that an unseen God personally makes available to certain people. Those people need not be brilliant. And often they are not. Nevertheless humbly submitted people do not walk just by sight but by faith. The testimony of Western Christendom that has blessed the West is that they enjoy this living personally delivered directive accessing truths and pointers to truth they have in their memory banks. Whether they acknowledge it or not people apprehended by God get a download of personally relevant and timely information. They receive this as a continuous stream from the God who is there, the God with whom they have entered into blood covenant.
I don’t understand the ‘people not having enough children’ bit at 22:30; have you not seen the worldometers real time clock of births exceeding deaths?
Jordan’s videos helped saved my life, and now Jonathan’s videos are helping to save my soul. Thank you.
This is so amazing. When someone can articulate what is inside of you, things line up and for a moment you can feel heaven.
This was phenomenal!!! The truth will set you free! The truth is a person; it is Christ!
I find it rather hilarious that the way the footage is framed (literally speaking), professor Peterson is in the corner, the margin, while you, Jonathan are in the center. I know this may have zero symbolic significance, but it's funny to me because in a way, Jordan willingly plunged into the chaos and through being a sort of marginal figure (the Kermit image) is bringing back the Logos from the dead past. You are striving for the same goal, but though being closer to the center (in terms of church tradition) by being an icon carver.
Oh, well, the two of you made me see symbolism, archetypes and meaning everywhere. For this I am infinitely grateful.
Cool take! You're definitely seeing patterns and symbols. I can't speak for Jonathan but imagine that he would be proud that you're thinking!
@@thewholesomegrail6722 Wow, your reply has stirred up my brain on topics I hadn't thought about for a long time. Thanks, will think again about symbolism now when writing my poems.
Poetry of Chaos and Order that’s awesome 👏 I find myself rewatching both JP’s (Jordan and Jonathan) videos when I need inspiration as well. Inversion and symbolism are really rearing their heads as we get into 2020 and I’m sure a poet like yourself can dig into it to find some kind of meaning and poetry among it all. Best wishes and stay safe my friend 🙇
"save yourself and thousands around you will be saved" Yes Yes and Yes.
Thank you Jonathan.
very passionate speech, well done by the carver among professors and theologians...
Lately I think about the idea of the Logos all the time, what the inner life of Christ was like, and what it means to try to embody this Logos in myself. I feel truly transformed by this. When I pray I pray to know only the perfect, eternal love that Paul wrote about. I’m almost hesitant to say it but I will; i feel reborn.
I am leaving to stay at a monastery for an observership very soon. I owe a lot to Jonathan for helping to solidly this calling in me. He articulated what I thought was ineffable with his insistence of a symbolic worldview, and brought to life Christianity for me with his illumination of the Logos. It’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Jonathan is amazing.
Thank you. Absolutely brilliant. So hopeful.
Thank you all those catastrophic ideas of post modernism are invading so quickly the eastern Orthodox societies. It is very helpful for us to see how you dealt with all those issues.
Greetings from Orthodox Cyprus
I had a friend who converted to Russian Orthodox for precisely this reason. My father found his soul in the great art of Byzantine Greece. He was from South Carolina.
Wow, what a speech!
0:19 Thank you Toronto
*Listening to JBP*
0:30 A Story: Jordan B. Peterson
1:53 “He’s Dancing across a wide variety of references... He wants to trace this underlying pattern”
2:31 “So he talks about Logos, which is truth, meaning...”
• Jonathan Pageau is amazed
*Meeting JBP*
4:45 John reaches out to Jordan
5:30 “I think I acted like a 14 year old speaking with Kanye West”
9:00 St. Maximus The Confessor
• “All things have a Logos. A Purpose”
• The Logi’s are woven together into a Web of Meaning. They exist as we come together. A sunset has a set of logi, coming together to form an experience
11:54 Man is The Microcosm of The Cosmos. (Birth, Life, Death)
This is so exciting to me! Because I’ve been listening to Jonathan and Jordan in the last year or two and I find them magnetic brilliant amazing and they open my mind to so much of God. I see they first met here six years ago. That was the work of the Holy Spirit for sure! These two are going to change the world. There’s a beginnings of an amazing thing coming. I’m so excited to have found this!
How great is this speech huh?!!
Love it
Nothing more can be added, simply magnificent Jonathan!
I be been standing long been listening for his quite still voice , I’m hearing and seeing Thank you and Jorden ! peace
The art of story telling is so profound. The story changes with the times but the message remains the same " what is it like to be human " .
Warning: Jaw dropping content!
Jordan's head in the corner. Very contemplative.
I really liked what you had to say. profound. :)
hi,
i discovered you thanks to your interview with dr peterson.
i am really impressed by the clarity of your thinking. i'll follow you from now.
a french agnostic guy who is seriously intellectually challenged by christian intellectuals
This is an amazing talk. I hope there will be more videos from you coming up in the future. Whatever happens, the Logos will triumph, because any other outcome is inconceivable. Still, I think we really need well articulated and deep thinkers like yourself to speak up in order to bring increasing order in the chaos of the internet and of people's life.
Inconceivable !!!
@@chickenshieee thanks. Not a native speaker and always trying to improve my English.
Someone smarter than me needs to compare this logos explanation to quantum mechanics where a particle is really a fuzzy non-local wave until it’s observed. Chaos into order. This and the holographic universe are very basically described in the Netflix documentary, Einstein’s Quantum Riddle, 55m. I’ve been very interested as an amateur in how the various disciplines prove out God and God characteristics. I was excited to see Stephen Meyers new book about the 3 experiments in cellular biology that show us Intelligent Design, “Return of the God Hypothesis”. As far as patterns go, you also have fractals (Mandelbrot ) in Math. Fascinating stuff.
Wonderful talk, Jonathan! When you were looking for a word for the combination of multiple logoi, I thought about the network of pomegranates that Solomon created to adorn the entryway of the Temple. It's like a super-constellation of meaning, with each star being a galaxy at higher resolution. A neuronal network of insights reaching for the Divine Pattern of Christ, the Eternal Logos. The Temple is the Tabernacle, and that pattern--envisioned by Moses on the Mountain-- is the ideal Mind/Heart Pattern of Christ. The Perfect Psyche, if you will, which beckons all to climb.
Thanks
Beautiful speech, thank you, I need to read more about the word "Logos" for sure
I would rewatch this talk in a year, I think I lost a lot of important parts
Yes, provoking !! Excellence.
Sencillo y al grano. Dios quiera que quienes dicen conocer a Dios y quienes no le conocen lo puedan entender a profundidad. Escuchar a JP y Jonathan me ayudó a romper con la religiosidad en que muchas veces caemos, entendiendo lo que precisamente acá explica.
This speech was wonderful. Although I have been following your videos for more than a year now, this one really "connected many dots". The idea that identity has to be ultimately connected to a transcendent principle, otherwise it will inevitably result in sin.
Since the events Ukraine, there has been much talk about the rising "multipolar world", but I fear it may be a case of identities stopping short of that vision. There is talk about a world of different civilizations coexisting, but what will be the common ground, the unifying principle?
What is the common ground between communist China and Bhutan or India? We saw what happened with Tibet. Of a Russia trying to present itself as a sort of "bastion of Orthodoxy" and the liberal European Union? We are seeing the war in Ukraine. This is not a defense of American hegemony, which could be seem as a parody of such common ground or unifying principle and ended up in countless wars and death.
What will be "the" Pole of this multipolar world? What will bring these different civilizations together?
So beautiful.
Thank you
My question is how the fuck we know what we do when we for instance consider the ancient texts or icons? We see things in them that aren't necessarily self-evident in superficial features, yet we see them so clearly and brightly it's distrubing.
Jonathan, is it possible to get a copy of your text? Such an important talk......
Contact me privately and I can send you the text.
completely brilliant
6:35 What building is that? It's so beautiful.
The scripture is not comprehensible unless you quote the entire passage. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life and the lif was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness does not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. The same came for a witness of the Light that all men through him might believe. He was not that light but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which lights every man that comes into the world. He was in the world and the world was made by Him and the world knew Him not. He came unto His own and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him to them He gave the power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on His name which was born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried saying, This was He of whom I spoke, He that comes after me is preferred before me and He was before me. And of His fulness have all we received and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at anytime; the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father. He has declared it. Shalom in Jesus.
Can anybody help me? Whats or who is this logos? What does it means?
Miguel Jorge Jesus is the LOGOS. The word of God.
Wonderful stuff! I was intrigued by the notion that reality is not fully in its true character unless every related logi is aligned to make the aggregate of logi into a whole logos. I hope I understood him correctly. In another video, Mr. Pageau was talking about levels of symbolisms encaptured in one icon and I wondered if the two ideas were related. Would it be too big a leap to understand symbolism and logos as two sides of the one coin, the two serving only to link reality with the awareness of it. Somewhere in this articulation is the point of it all, which I assume is to express a value system that reflects 'true' life. Must we resurrect the logos? Are logos and postmodernism our only choices? I am an atheist with Judeo-Christian morality. Might not secular humanism replace my moral set or am I kidding myself that humanist values are actually different from Judeo-Christian values. Anyway, thanks for so much food for thought!
Brendan Tannam : the logos translate the Lord of Lord's and the king of king's for God is Love without partiality. " My Peace I give to you", not as the world gives you the understanding of it :)
This was an extremely interesting discussion, especially when it comes to the issue of the Logos. Is the Logos limited to an idea, a pillar of truth, a generic rationally evaluated flow of virtue? (This is what Voltaire, Robispierre, and the Freemason secularists of the French Revolution believed). Or is the Logos a Person, that is the spiritual flow of truth and information in God coming to us from the unseen world in the next dimension beyond our 5 senses?
And here is where this discussion of the Logos then leads. Can the Logos be ramped up as a living vital real-time personal guiding Truth in concert with the Spirit of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph to become Rhema? The Biblical promise is given that at the end of the saga there wil be those who give worth-ship to God in Spirit as well as in Truth. One is left brain (Truth), and the other right brain, (Spirit). Perhaps even male and female, both complementing each other and in harmony. In the Biblical sense Rhema is the spiritually energized and personally delivered real-time guiding information of the Logos. Rhema is the spiritually energized personally delivered Logos that an unseen God personally makes available to certain people.
Those people need not be brilliant. And often they are not. Nevertheless humbly submitted people do not walk just by sight but by faith. The testimony of Western Christendom that has blessed the West is that they enjoy this living personally delivered directive accessing truths and pointers to truth they have in their memory banks. Whether they acknowledge it or not people apprehended by God get a download of personally relevant and timely information. They receive this as a continuous stream from the God who is there, the God with whom they have entered into blood covenant.
Peterson and Pageau should team up.
When the logi come together: Cohesion
See "The Humiliation of the Word" -Jacques Ellul
I don’t understand the ‘people not having enough children’ bit at 22:30; have you not seen the worldometers real time clock of births exceeding deaths?
Billiant
0:30 the CBC audio that brought Dr. Peterson and Jonathan together: www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/a-history-of-violence-1.2994453