Divine Patterns in The Life of Moses
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2017
- Looking at the story of the life of Moses as described by St-Gregory of Nyssa, I use the pattern found there y to trace a map of the cosmos which can be used to interpret other stories and images.
This is the second part of a talk. The first part is here: • Encountering God in St...
This talk was given in Feb. 2017 at the Climacus Conference in Louisville Kentucky: www.climacusconference.org/
The original audio was taken from Ancient Faith Radio: www.ancientfaith.com/specials/...
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Website: www.pageaucarvings.com
Facebook: / jonathanpageau
Twitter: / pageaucarvings
I am dead-set on watching or listening to every single Pageau video.
It’s well worth it.
Me too but I think I'm still gonna struggle to understand it.
You'll run out of them too fast, unfortunately 🙂
I’m worried about running out!
I’m madly in love with this content! I can’t get enough! It’s like finally understanding wth the passion and interests I had were and how so many came together lol
I love it 🥰
@ENDLockdowns DotOrg thanks! I’ll check it out now 😊
i just said out loud to my wife: oh crap are we going to have to convert to orthodox?
You can’t give back what it already gave you so yes.
how on earth did you come up with that idea?
Yes
My wife and I are converting! We made the decision and haven’t looked back!
Simple answer: Yes.
Long Answer: There is no other option.
This is beautiful (glory to God). I'm going to recommend it to my seminarians and parishioners (we are working our way through the Old Testament at our weekly Bible Study; I relied on St. Gregory's account when we got to Sinai... but not nearly as well as this!). I am so happy that you are posting content like this - God bless you in this and all your work! - Fr. Anthony Perkins (UOC-USA)
You share a name with the actor from Psycho
@@Laocoon283 You're made in the image of God, so you Fr. Perkins and I share the same image in which we were created.
@@MoiLiberty cool
God really is amazing. Everything just works.
Pretty amazing. My cousin converted to Orthodoxy, and he was chuckling that there were dogheaded saints that he didn't understand. This is helpful. Both of us left Christian fundamentalism (I became Catholic). These icons are pretty amazing.
"For this demon who does men harm and corrupts them is intensely concerned that his subjects not look to heaven but that they stoop to earth and make bricks within themselves out of this clay."
I happen to be reading Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" at the moment and couldn't help but think of the manual labor forced upon the jewish captives by the nazis--how they'd make them dig and carry dirt all day--as described in the book.
(Thanks for making this video, by the way, Jonathan--your videos are the best, especially when there are Pepes in 'em.)
Mr. Pageau, your work is transformative
This video is so dense! There's so many ideas bombarding me that my mind keeps chasing rabbits and I have to rewind, and even then on my 4th listen I'm still hearing things I haven't (actively) heard yet.
I wonder if you might want to put in your video description that the book is available for free online in many places. I've started reading it thanks to this video.
I just recently starting listening to his videos and found myself thinking that I need to rewatch them.
Same here! This is round 3 for me!
I had no clue it was free, I was considering buying it. I still may if my free read is enjoyed. I want to fill it with notes and pictures to accompany it.
Love you Jonathan my brother in Christ, thank you for shining rays of the illuminated light that is Orthodoxy 🙏 It is later than we think, we must gather all who we can. With Love in Christ, God Bless you and yours ❤️☦️
I didn't see anyone else comment on the synchronistic event so I will- on the last slide, when you mention what's bringing the dead out of their tombs, you say, "music." At that exact moment the church bells start ringing in background.
Just listened to it again. They actually start just before you say music, as if they're answering your question.
@@coreyp9951 I noticed that too! I thought it was someone's phone ringing, but the fact that it's the church bells makes it even better.
I noticed this too haha very odd.
Hey Jonathan! Thanks for doing these videos. I hope you do more
Thus science the quantitative data and testing process, framework and discipline becomes scientism the qualitative truth to be consumed, aka The Pure Tribe of Inquiry and Reason, aka The Divine Paradigm of Meaning.
I so appreciate finding your videos after reading your sober, substantive and salient "Most of The Time The Earth Is Flat" series. Thank you for the time and effort you've spent.
Very interesting. Thank you for posting - much to think about and I may well get the book!
A little tip for future videos. It sounds like you are trying to project your voice to the room without a microphone, I.e. That the recording mic is not doubling as an amplifying mic. It makes it quite tiring to listen to after a while because it's like having someone shout in your ear. If that's the set up it might be better to put the recording mic at a greater distance - though it'll be a bit more muffled, it will make for a much more listenable audio. Of course the ideal if you are recording is that the mic is simultaneously being used to amplify the voice so that there's no conflict of purpose!
Music conjures spirits? Makes sense, certainly seems that way, especially to watch what happens at concerts
Is there a transcript of this talk?
Amazing and thick with meaningful content
Just sponsored transcription, if you still care. The last link in the description should have it up in a bit, if you still care... Mr. Gigachad.
Amazing in the way you describe this interpretation. Thank you
I have been struggling to fit the Jungian way of seeing the Self (and Ego/Shadow dynamics) and the Christian way of seeing God.
I still haven't grasped everything that has been said in this talk but I believe it has the answer to my question. Specifically the part of Christ being the Tabernacle and the thing that's above the mountain. That which is outside the hierarchy and that puts it in order. That which can reconcile both the Light and Darkness.
Thank you so much for this.
Anybody who is beholden to the material realm is, poor.
The poor will always be with us.
This is why helping the poor is not the highest ideal.
For, the poor must help themselves, with guidance, through leading by example.
Thanks for this. Time to take this off the shelf and reread it.
Wow! Thanks for this talk, Jonathan. I guess the tower of Babel was evil because it was an example of Jung's warning about unearned spiritual knowledge. They wanted get access to God without having to do the painful spiritual journey of faith and forgiveness. Worse still they wouldn't have found God no matter how tall the tower was.
Well that’s part of it. They were also trying to enslave God using ritual magic. Check out the Lord of Spirits episode on this!
So glad I found you.
Beautiful presentation.
A superb and edifying presentation. Thank you.
You may be interested in dissecting the symbology of the movie War for the Planet of the Apes as it follows pretty closely the story of Moses.
Kind of freaky though, an upside down Moses story where humans have created a strange self-hating suicidal fantasy about the end of our culture.
Great presentation bother. Blessings in our Lord
you should make your lectures and videos s in podcast version on spotify :P i would listen all day!
Thank you Jon.
Great talk ! 😀 When is the book ?
Glory to God
A lot of this sounds like Swedenborg. I need to read me some Gregory of Nyssa.
Merci.
Jonathan, thank you for making this. Several "Oh wow"-s escaped me during the video, amazing stuff.
I have one question: why is the prideful ascent still an ascent? I understand it's nice to have the symmetry, but I really can't see how the ascent can have a dark side. As soon as it's dark, i.e. prideful, it's not an ascent anymore, right? Would love to hear your thoughts on this, because I'm probably missing something. Thanks!
That quote answers my question perfectly, thanks!
I am having a hard time when people say it is just made up.
It could not be more real,
you just have to live a little,
to see it unfold.
Why is it real? and not made up?
It is built on careful observation over many 1000's years of human nature.
In St Gregory’s book, he talks about the rod turning bitter waters into sweet waters. This happens immediately after the crossing of the Red Sea. I’m curious if you think this is in some sense the opposite of what happens to Lot’s wife when she turns and looks back toward Sodom and Gomorrah (looking longingly after her former life of passion and all things evil) and is turned into a pillar of salt.
Thoughts?
Did anyone hear the music of the bells ( a familiar tune as well) when Johnathan was talking about the brown in the circle and that it was the dead being raised from the grave by music of the angels? It was all very informative but I think the angels chimed in ( pun intended) at the end there lol.
Wow! When you discussed the red, hairy animal skins that represent death I immediately was taken to Jacob and Esau in my mind. Esau represented the rejected, the death if you will by his physical countenance
Would that make the two foreigners also be the 2 witnesses then? I'm not sure by any means, but it just came to me to make sense in that way in this moment after listening.
Thanks!
Jonathan, I had a weird revelation yesterday when our families orthodox priest did his yearly blessing of our house.
I couldn't comprehend at first what a crazy pattern I found during the ritual. It is as follows:
The priest put 5 things and 5 things only on the table, as he does in every orthodox house every year. The 5 objects were a bowl of water, a lit candle, incense, tied small branches with dried leaves and a Cross.
Now you probably already understood the connection I found with the 5 elements: Water, Fire, Air, Earth and the 5th element, which is the supernatural thought, our connection to the other elements, this world.
I asked the priest about this ancient greek connection and the only answer I got from him was that ancient greeks had no effect on christian orthodoxy, which is absurd. I left the discussion there.
So what do you think about this connection? It's too absurd to be believed. I couldn't understand that I have never seen this before in the many blessing-of-the-house-rituals.
Yes, it's the brush for flinging water. That's what I presumed was Earth. I couldn't describe it well enough.
Maybe I'm reading too much into what isn't there...?
Carbon ....
It sounds like a cleansing ritual used in some esoteric magicks. Check out www.quareia.com (module 1 for the cleansing ritual) if you’re interested in exploring some of the intersections of formal religion and esoteric practice.
andrija stamenkovic That's because Christianity is essentially a European pagan religion. Hence most of the rituals being the same.
@Roger Theil wrong. That's not how it works you're making a huge jump without thinking.
Boy howdy am I aquintated with the dark side of the ascent. I certainly can relate to the story of Simon the sorcerer.
I haven't finished the video (not even close) but I gonna let the impatience get the best of me cause I don't have the time to watch this if you're going where I think you're going.
The angels of God move up AND down the ladder, those who only fall have a massive problem yes but those who only ascend are also trapped in the seal of Solomon, aka the star of david.
There's one wind blowing north and one south, a war on your soul, the golden queen vs ego in Guardians of the Galaxy (cool video btw, just watched it), you have to climb the ladder down and up at the same time, then the middle path leading forward is revealed.
31:49 "dark night of the soul" !
Christopher Knuffke yes! I’ve been going through this for the past 3 years! Somehow I knew it to be symbolic of Christ’s death and seeing the rising from the death of the Flesh in order for the Spirit of God to resurrect. 🤔
25:40 - Golden
8:15 . . .aren't they good, at least by virtue of their telos and God's intention ??
❤
Finally a christian being honest about the nature of wh - amen. Its a rare thing these days.
Multiplicity and Unity. Does Pageau know Guénon?
Oh yes he does, he thinks guénon has many problems though but he says he deals a fatal blow to materialism and is very good for that reason and has incredible insights but he is off about alot things as well so one must be careful reading him. He is a perrenialist and a freemason so keep that in mind.
@@suppression2142 After I wrote that comment I saw Pageau’s video dealing specifically with Guénon. I know there have been many misinterpretations or misunderstandings of his work, but I’m the kind of person who read a lot of him and came away with something positive. Pageau thought he was a Martinist and you seem to think he’s a Mason, but both of those are wrong if we trust Guénon’s accounts in his own words in the book he wrote on Freemasonry. That being said I do have a good impression of Freemasons, even if they’ve lost a lot from their tradition as Guénon seems to believe.
@Paul Schutz Well he said so himself that he desired to become a freemason,
Following his desire to join a regular Masonic obedience, he became a member of the Thebah Lodge of the Grande Loge de France following the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. Also he is a confirmed perrenialist according to himself by his own words.
@Paul Schutz There certainly are alot of positives to him no doubt, we wouldn't have johnathan pageau or matthieu pageau without his insights but alot of his teachings are just flawed and downright dangerous, check out Johnathans video on the unintended irony of perrenialism
@@suppression2142 Just watched it again. It’s funny, but the type of flaky new age thinking and universalism that Pageau says the perennialists may encourage is exactly what Guénon was an antidote against in my case. I actually always thought he was a good antidote for that in general by giving a deeper understanding of metaphysics as a solid template, counter to modern tendencies of treating spirituality as a series of scattered puzzle pieces without rhyme or reason.
Haha I need to speak with you at some point. I feel like we would talk for hours.
Oh man, I wish you had NOT cut/edited your 2hour presentation down to this 40minute... would have LOVED to see all the other details/content that you ended up cutting out. Including more examples of the icons (at the end) to see/show the pattern. (Repetition is one unavoidable aspect/way of learning... I think the more examples we can see, the more it sort of gets imprinted in our brain and the more "ah ha"/"light bulb" moments are possible for us).
♥️✝️♥️
i always saw moses as the middle path in the kabbalah tree of life. dividing the waters of chaos, to form a middle path.
What's the point of the curtain ripping?
I would assume to reveal
13
Imagine a tree of life arranged like a family tree, 2 dimensional, parabolic, forming a
"U" with its branches. It never goes down, but reaches left and right, and up. There is a tree shaped like this, the dragon blood tree. And then imagine the tree of good and evil,forming a tree with branches that reach in a way with many smaller sharp angles v^v^v^v that go both up and down. Both cover an area, but the good and evil, the one that grows both up and down, reaches out and up in a different way over a different course. If you were to focus on a willow trees boughs that descend, you'd say, "why is this tree growing down, away from the light?" But taking the whole picture, you can see the way the light reaches the whole tree, and that it's descent and rising together absorb light in a different way.
@3:34 As a Protestant I would interpret ascending the mountain as perhaps meeting with God, I think becoming 'like' God is what the serpent tempted people with
So instead of Ascend towards divinity,ascent to meet with the divine One
Have you considered the possibility that the temptation of the Serpent might have been "a shortcut" to becoming like God?
Making it seem like the mere fact of eating the fruit of Knowledge would make you like God instead of putting the effort that God demands from us to be able to make that ascent?
@@ZappyRedstone Pageau would agree.
Ascending the mountain is about aiming to unite with Christ, to follow Christ to the Father.
Pageau is not saying you will become Jesus.
He is saying the closer you are the more of the Devine you reflect.
How do you feel about Iconography? How can I speak to a Protestant about Iconography when so many believe Icons are a sin and go against the ten commandments?
Oh how I wish I had come across this 5 years ago instead of Terrance McKennas Stoned Ape Theory. Would’ve saved me a lot of headache and worry from dangerous exploring with a hermetic framework.
We can see it also with jesus christ on the cross and the two theifs beside him , also jesus moses and elijah on the mountain elijah is a fire and non water force and moses is water and feminine force
You better believe, it is no coincidence that a mountain, looks a lot like a hierarchy.
Ole' St.Gregory was on the right track, but screwed it up.
One problem I have with the whole "angel on one shoulder devil on the other" is the idea of what the devil is.
To me the Devil is rational thought. That's why he was the highest angel, who fell before God. In some sense, exactly like humans who worship rationality to the detriment of their humanity. Whose rationality caused them to "cover up" before God, because they knew too much.
If you agree with this interpretation, then the angel/devil on your shoulder is a weird symbol. Because what it in essence is saying is that you're going to use rationality to defeat rationality. But in that case, who's the devil and who is the angel? Who is leading you on a path toward righteousness, and who is causing you to fall? Do you just have to depend on your own intuition to see the truth? What about when the situation is complicated? Couldn't both be devils, just one in disguise?
I hope this makes sense and isn't incoherent. But I'd love to hear your response to this idea. If you need me to flesh anything out please let me know.
It's incoherent. Have you read any EO book? Like Lossky? The problem isn't reason but will. But sure, the worship of reason leads to the demonic.
its also the spirit for pride that's the devil's innate character.
26:20 rare Pepe
don't always belive what u read
You have made doubt a virtue...
Enjoy staring into the abyss.
Thumbnail is giving Bill Cipher vibes…
When its saying that moses saw god in the dark. Its because he is meditating. Its in the new testamate too. The 7 colors of the soul are the 7 chackras. Both in hinduism amd buddhism and its also in the kabbalah. The top chackra(crown chackra) is god. You can only see him thru meditation and thru letting go of material and carnal desires. Its symbology that once you see it, you cant unsee and its in music videos, movies, comics and videogames. Hidden meanings in plain sight.
Gregory is not a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Jew. He is Christian. The chackra system has nothing to do with what Gregory is teaching.
@@k.arlanebel6732 if Gregory teaches the universal pattern, it must be somehow incorporated there too.
They might participate in some universal patterns but Hinduism does not believe in a personal God with attributes and actually deny reasoning altogether while simultaneously using reasoning to deny reasoning thus engaging in a performative contradiction. Christianity does not have this issue it preserves both rationality and beyond rationality simultaneously. Also Buddhism is also basically atheistic in some sense they don't believe in personal super natural God creator.
Divine Darkness,
oof
that is real,
where in scripture is it revealed that we have an angel, assigned to each of us to help us?
to the contrary, it is nowhere to be found. our helper is the Holy Spirit. at this point i
ceased to listen to the rest.
I'm just trying to make a connection of concepts here. Christ told his disciples that it is better that he left them so that the helper could come. the helper being the holy spirit. the holy spirit being God's messenger bringing revelation to us. Angel means messenger. he has given to each of us his holy spirit/helper/messenger/angel. does this make sense?thoughts? I'm open to feedback and correction.
@@riner60341 hebrews tells us that angels are ministering spirits. the holy spirit is God, who dwells in us.
angels are created beings. the Holy Spirit is not. the spirit of Christ, the spirit of God, the holy spirit.
scripture warns not to make up stuff about, or be too fascinated with angels, or worship them. then again,
we are told to entertain strangers for you never know when you might be with an angel. never know is the
key here. people like to make idols. i always joke, but serious, that i have the #1 team of driving angels,
because of all the close calls i have had, been saved from, while driving. Jesus sends them. i fix my
eyes on Jesus, and many things are a glorious mystery, until the day i meet him face to face🙃
jesus, in the gospel of john, calls the holy spirit The Helper, or comforter, the Spirit of Truth, who teaches
us thru the living written word. john 14:23 if anyone loves me he will keep my word, and my father will love
him, and WE will come to him and make our abode with him. father/son/holy spirt. God is spirit. the word
and the spirit are sufficient. orthodox christianity is full of pomp and ceremony and icons/idols of no use.
@@windyday8598wow you said a lot here. I won't be able to reply to it all but a few thoughts. in the old testament there is an angel who shows up over and over again who called the angel of the Lord. He shows up to Jacob, Joshua, Sampsons parents to announce they are going to have a son, Gideon. These are just a few of them. Everyone mentioned above fell down and worshipped him and they were not rebuked for doing so. Sampsons parents and Gideon also offered sacrifices to God and he, the angel of the Lord, received them. All that to say that the angel of the Lord appears to be God in human form. So seeing the word angel doesn't automatically mean some other spirit besides God. Now I'm not saying all angels mentioned in the Bible are God either. I guess I just wanted to say it's ok to not assume you know exactly how this church father was using the term in order to teach a spiritual lesson. I'm not Orthodox, but I do appreciate their use of symbolism and understanding of the universal pattern. Most protestants don't have a clue to these patterns in scripture and I think the whole body of Christ would benefit greatly from recapturing this part of our christian heritage. Now I don't agree with everything the Orthodox do and teach or don't teach. The video is about symbolism not hard and fast theology. See it symbolically. Or dont
@@riner60341 i was speaking in new covenant terms. the indwelling holy spirit is so much more than a
messenger from God, so much more than the appearance of an angel. even those were rare, and temporary.
there is "an angel of the Lord" and there was "the angel of the lord", meaning a visible, bodily appearance of
God, who yes, would receive worship when perceived as such. hopefully none of them built a likeness of them
to gaze upon, as with icons. i love jonathan. i am aware of some of the symbolism he speaks of, interesting.
but i am cautious because of the depths of the doctrine which errors plainly. like ascending the ladder, like
kundalini yoga. christ in you is nirvana!. i avoid any fixation with angels, going "beyond what is written".
many funky ideas about angels in the christian world. i do not consider myself a "protestant", tho i was raised
in catholicism and later found Jesus. the simplicity of Christ, revealed in the word of God. he has showed up in
my life thru other people many times, at just the right time. things to store up in your heart, not a rabbit trail.
i believe a tall man was and angel who was sent to help me once,. and then he was gone. never went around
telling it so. it was for me, a mystery, not needing to be solved. let's talk about the blood of Jesus, the gift of
the holy spirit, born again, the kingdom of the Son, and having the mind of Christ, and the narrow road.
john 14-17. guided into all truth, glorifying Christ, looking for the blessed hope. enough about angels.
@@windyday8598 God bless you sister
#MapsOfMeaning @2:51
I wish you made like 10 minute sum-up videos. I'll admit I'm in my 20s and I don't have a attention span for a 40+ minute videos without visuals in the background. Not trina be a snob , but you'd reach more young people
Hey! Why did you get into trouble? And to whom?😂
by the way: that's why the female is called womb-man = woman
@@h.p6016 No, not really, ‘woman’ comes from ‘wīf-man’, ‘wīf’ meaning something like female, which is also the root of the word ‘wife’. So it's more like ‘wife-man’. But I do think it's fun to think of it as ‘womb-man’ sometimes.
they didnt notice the pepes..