Another MMO Cancelled
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Wayfinder just couldn't find a way.
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making it single player with peer to peer coop before potentially abandoning it is a gigachad move in my books... i wish they would have done that with Rend
So many other games I wish would have done that.
I miss rend man
Rend 😢I miss that game so much!
Lol Don't trust Airship sindicate too much
Look up Rends Last Hope
I feel so bad for this Dev. He's trying so hard to save his hard work and genuinely wants people to enjoy it
Yeah. I could hear the stress from the voice. Not too many people clearly knows it, but publishers take the bulk of the money, not the devs. Devs see like a % of it, but nowhere close to a big chunky-ass cut. I've seen an indie dev contract with a potential deal to be published by another company and I could only say "well shit". It wasn't pretty, but well, easy way or the hard way.
The only logical conclusion for those players who want a refund is to sue the original publisher and have the other parties involved so as to determine legally who owes what % back to the refunders. Players screaming at Airship to refund them might as well write the demands on water. Shit happened, yes. And things are complicated. Go sue then.
I had not really heard about wayfinder, but just this dev trying to save it makes me want to at least do some research. If it is like Warframe, I'm down.
@@jmason0622 sometimes it's not even a slight %. most times you get a slightly better than the average salary (but not in the games industry) and that's it (unless you're a small indie dev). most of the times they don't actually see a cut. (but that's pretty normal for all jobs)
He said play the game so you go over the refund time. Lol
Word, they genuinely give a fuck and they have developed great games Darksiders Genesis, LOL RPG, Battle chasers. DE dropped the ball on this one, and they have to deal with the fallout. They don't deserve all this hate from players. I'm sure if we continue to support the game, they will release good content.
I think switching a dead MMO to a single-player with co-op mode is a brilliant move. More MMOs need to do this before pulling the plug
Rip Devilian, Warlords Awakening and Battleborn.
It's a maneuver that costs money so this is done out of love and hope that they can still sell the game, most MMOs just pull the plug
Switching a dead MMO to a single player is a brilliant move to make the game even more dead
@@Fenharelcamelater Read the newest comments. You are in the minority with thinking that way.
@@Fenharelcamelater lol a single player game is always gonna be less dead than a MMO with servers shut down
Somewhat ironic considering Warframe's early struggles trying to survive without a Publisher and then trying to become one for someone else and failing them.
New CEO and restructuring does this TBF. Times change and all that
imo mmo's going single player/coop is one of the best outcomes if the alternative is going away completely
Sure, but only for mmo's that are at the end of their life time, not a game that launched recently...
Gifting a free coffin to dead man's family is completely different from gifting a coffin to a new born.
Live services are basically dead on arrival these days. Good decision from the devs.
@@aahzmandiaz2767yeah just look at suicide squad lmfaoooo 😅
I would agree. I think this route, though disappointing for people who wanted the MMO version, is much better than an online game just being shut down and now it's gone forever with no version you can play anymore. It sucks either way but this is probably the best possible outcome for what they can realistically do with how things are going.
Then it won't be called an " M.M.O" anymore
“So what are you gonna do now?” Drink. Lmao based dev. Never even heard of the game but I will definitely check it out now. He actually seems to care and I can’t imagine taking all that in and trying to have an off the cuff interview with Asmon live. Much respect.
Thank you.
@@AJLaSaracinahonestly really happy it’s going to be a single player with co op option game now tbh. If it has offline as well, even better. Never really been a huge fan of mmo, so definitely going to look into this with the upcoming changes.
@@AJLaSaracina I actually will check the game out as well, never heard of it or the drama, but simply deciding to step up and answer questions on live stream is a massively respectful thing to do, and super hard.
I do not envy your position in the matter by any means, but you did an awesome job doing your best to be transparent and explain what was going on, or will go on. 10/10.
@@AJLaSaracina Yeah man you did good. Mad props for going out there with zero script and talking it out. I'm looking forward to the 31st and my friends may be joining me on the 11th.
Gonna buy this now
Big respect for a dev coming on stream to explain the teams side of the story. That's how you build trust and transparency.
trust lmao, maybe if they didn't scam people out of 150$ they would have trust
@@demonkarris391 You didnt watch the video then? The publisher Digital Extreme's collected the money and not the studio which now has ownership rights. They can't refund what they don't have.
@@jakeboston6946 Why should I care as the customer? They took away the product I paid for and replaced it with a new, inferior version.
@@jakeboston6946 He *thinks.* 14:01 He needs to confirm that and prove it, because, that's the crux of the matter. It makes all the difference. Because those founders aren't responsible for their misfortune with the publisher.
I did buy the 150$ founder pack for this.
I'd rather it go single player with p2p than just shut down.
You can tell this poor sod is anxious/nervous af with his pacing, you couldn't pay me enough to handle that kinda stress.
wouldn't most people be anxious about a massively public call that has their career riding on it?
@@LeBimbo agreed, plus he really doesn't has 100% say on it, he can only influence per his position.
@@LeBimbo Oh ya, whole heartedly. I would be doing worse xD
Ha, I ALWAYS pace when I'm talking on a call. It sounded like shit because Discord had reset my mic to my webcam! sorry about that. Thanks for having me on.
The boss eats the wins amd the losses.
Good honest Dev, nothing to hide, just caught in a rough position.
Digital Extremes closed their publishing arm last year. I think it's a bit disingenuous for them to not be up front about their choice to remain Independent instead of finding an alternate publisher in the intervening 6+ months since this occurred.
@@jazzyjswift no big publisher want mmo in this current game industry climate.
@@jazzyjswift there is 0 chance of any publisher dishing out money for a failed mmo. It would be just a waste of money on their part. And if they do get a publisher, it would just make them milk every penny that can be milked with microtransactions. Because that's where dying mmos go.
If he didn't have any information on giving people their money back or the ability to refund them he shouldn't of gone on any live stream. Honestly these guys are partially responsible along with the publishers as they are the ones that developed a really bad and defective product.
@@colinroberts1279 Saying "i don't know'" is information by itself. Shutting up is the right attitude in many cases, but honestly telling that you don't have an answer for something is never wrong.
Issue with MMOs is that the cost is insanely high and unless you are a AAA studio the risk is not worth the returns
Even RIOT said f no.
They knew. They made money for saying it
@Tnargav riot is still doing the mmo as far as I understood. They went silent because they want it to be more revolutionary than just another wow clone with league skin over it. I don't blame them at all. The mmo market is definitely saturated even though most of it is trash. If they cant draw the wow crowd it could fail. They never announced anything or showed anything so they have nothing to lose as long as the work they did still makes it into whatever project they go with. But they definitely didn't say the mmo is canceled.
@@dylananhorn1 I hope so. I was so looking forward to their mmo. Let's wait and see.
Crowdfunding mmos is like replying to that Nigerian prince that needs $120 to send you 1 million
One thing is for sure, the devs/community managers have been gaslighting the shit out of their community, just like a "Nigerian prince" 🤣
@@ph____ another things for sure... I bought all the Founder Packs and clearly want a refund for those promised products. I'll take store credit even though I paid with my Bank Card so sadge
interviewee: "sorry i pace when i talk"
asmon: "you're good, i do the same thing"
i've never seen asmon out of his chair unless he's doing a one-off variety stream
Bro he is a video game streamer his job is to sit down and talk to a monitor lol although to be fair in his other videos with his friends he is still sitting
He’s referring to pacing when on a phone call.
He was paid multiple times to review the game
I think he's referring to anxiety movement, I pace as well but when I'm forced into a situation and I'm sitting, I start squirming in my seat, most people don't notice it but I do which adds to the anxiety.
@@cecollins68 noticed asmon does this too. He could be a pacer when on phone. I think I have seen a couple clips with him pacing while talking and moving his hands a while back.
As someone who saw game in EA just dissapear and never be playable again, I think it's good that they at least make in a single player game that people will be able to play forever instead of just the game dissapearing.
Rest in peace Skysaga I miss you ;(
Yup... too many entitled idiots out there who have no idea what the other outcome could have been. The devs literally saved their game with this move. Now it will at least continue to exist. The 'usual' early access response is just drop it and disappear like how many others... they'd be happy then huh?
Yeah, that's true, it is to the benefit of the people who actually want to play it.
That's great for a game that's been running for years and the publisher is abandoning it, leaving players a option to play it if they want.
But for a new game that just launched, that's ridiculous, it's like charging you for a item, making you pay for it, and then saying "oh we're out of stock, but here's a version of it with less functions and options as a favor from me to you, you are welcome!."
@@paulofaquin That's _also_ true...
Bro Skysaga was so good! I still occasionally listen to the soundtrack just relive those days
Asmon: So whatre you gunna do now?
Executive producer: Drink?
That one had me rolling.
Hearing that this is gonna be a single player co op will all the founders stuff as in game loot at random makes me wanna play it more im buying it when it comes out
Who tf is still paying for games that aren’t out yet?
Yo Hades 2 is fire tho-
Hades 2 is actually out though. Early access, sure, but it's playable and pretty darn fun.
Democrat voters
@@cheerfulgestalt3282
Too woke for my taste.
Edit: Yes Hades 2 is indeed woke, they found a way to make a god in wheelchair and there are 1000 other examples. Heck one of the god is queer/trans as well.
Vote with your wallet.
who is paying for games that arent even completed yet. diablo 4..............................................................................
in all fairness, steam is pretty clear that early access purchases may never get finished or even change at all.
"Never get finished or even change at all" is exactly right. It's not the same as "shut down" or change into something completely different.
There is a case to be made, although I wouldn't expect any good outcomes if they are forced to refund money they don't have.
There is a big difference between "change" and turn a MMO into a singleplayer
@@MrImmortal709 that's still covered by the "early access". Pretty much everything goes and you assume all risks.
@@MrImmortal709 you also agree that the game may shut down or stop dev tomorrow. changing the game is better than it disappearing, don't you think?
when you buy early access your money is gone, you have no control over it, so stop using what you paid as a reason for demands. if you have a problem with that buy finished and established games only and control your impulses.
@@MrImmortal709big difference? The word change should cover that. It’s been “changed”.
i payed $20 for it, played it maybe 3 hours and never touched it again. Im actually looking forward to it being a single player game instead
I don't think this was a bad move on the devs part. The options they had were quite simple. Put the servers down and let the game die forever, or work hard to change the game to a singleplayer/co-op so that the players that supported you still get to keep the game they paid for. I guarantee you most developers and most studios would have put the servers down and taken the money with them without a single thought about the players. This guy is trying his best for his players.
But its not the game they paid for.... they paid for an mmo, its now turning to a single player. They were scammed. The only reason he's turning it into a single player game is because he wants to keep making money off it. But again, they didn't ask for a single player game and they deserve a refund from this scammer.
Props to the guy for coming on and talking about it
It's good PR, not really something worth applauding the guy for. I do hope the game gets good sales and is fun to play.
@@zach_zach5898 That is true, but I still think it takes bit of courage to come on and talk about it when people are viewing it as a negative thing. And I hope so too.
They are trying to persuade people from refunding and just accept the game is now single player.
A lot of devs wouldn’t say sht at all or just send out a tweet , I agree
@@seafattI mean wouldn't you, at the end of the day everyone needs money or whatever they're working on to succeed. It's very rare you see a studio or devs own up or talk about their situation
I wish WildStar devs had the Cojones to do this :(
That would be dope, hell even have sp with online co-op for some of the content and bam take my money
I would play the heck out of a non MMO WS.
@@bryin7I would play the heck out of plain old wildstar. Was there till the end. Literally the second it shut down. Was a sad day. Game was before its time. If they advertised it today, using streamers to pre test and get servers stable enough for a more smooth launch, it would find success. Probably won’t ever happen but one can dream I suppose lol
The problem is NC Soft owns all the IP rights for ANY game they published. It's happened with every game they've shuttered that they won't release it. While CoX is a biggest one, the developers for Auto Assault have stated multiple times they have tried to buy the IP off of NC Soft, and they refuse to even come to the table. NC Soft would rather let IPs rot than let so.eone else succeed with them. That's why them endorsing COX Homecoming floored so many people.
Yeah, what an awesome game that was.
This is similar to what Nightingale is going through. They launched with some super scuffed networking and server structures, because they imagined a game with lots of multiplayer dungeon delving, but it made so many loading screens, they're rolling back their vision to something similar. They now hope everyone can load offline and play solo without needing to wait for servers, but still keep lots of the 4-8 man content they planned. People can still multiplayer, but needed a rebuild to be less online.
Steam can retroactively add content to a library based on a prior purchase (think bioshock remastered) .. for existing purchases they could always add founders / pre-order exclusive dlcs to include remedial content for early backers. I think it's doable. And i think thats what the gent was getting at
They probably just dont have the money to do big refunds like that.
All money went to DE not AS
He explained it, they do not have the money to refund. All the money went to the publisher that dropped them. He couldn't go into specifics because of legal reasons, but eluded to the fact that they're on the gamers' side to getting a refund through steam. DE is the one we should all have a gripe with
DE DIDNT RECOUP the costs of funding AS in the first place.
No over Publisher would touch Waitfinder 🤣🤣
Roll on May 31st!
@@gnice42
@@gnice42 Do you believe everything you're told?
@@deltafire5058 Do you not believe in anything you’re told?
Stupid answer for a stupid question😑
That Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning game was supposed to be an MMO but was turned into a singleplayer game instead. And it was a damn good one. But man, they scrwed up BIG time with their financialbullshit and collapsed the company. Or something like that.
iirc Project Copernicus was the mmo that never managed to go past pre production and KoA: Reckoning was pretty much the introduction to the world. a damn good one for sure. wish it had ng.
koa was pretty cool, very nice combat system, nice artstyle and alright graphics but the story and quest design were utter garbage. Also besides the immediate combat itself it felt dull VERY fast. It had lots of potential but there is a reason why it has never become another dark souls
I thought it was a 6.5/10, 7/10 pushing it.
Man i loved that game sad that it ended bad but my memories and soundtracks will remain...
the decision to make KoA offline was done well before the public ever even knew about it though. this is definitely uncharted territory. i don't envy the devs
I wondered why that name sounded familiar, they were the company that did the single player league of legends RPG.
And darksider games
Its sucks for AS cause if this doesn’t land i cant see then staying open
I completely expected this from the moment it launched. The game really didnt need to be an mmo
Open world MMOs are just the very first thing devs with no experience will gravitate towards because they think it's all sunshine and roses.
honestly, if it were a F2P MMO it would have done well. IMO the artstyle and art direction of wayfinder kinda already looks like a F2P game. not that it lacks quality in those regards, but the visual "language" is kinda the same.
Didn't even know it was a mmo in the first place, thought it was SP/Co-op game. It looked like garbage from the trailers and gameplay I saw. I don't feel bad for people pre-ordering now a days. Just don't do it.
Is it coop? Or purely solo now?
They are good devs but it was a massive mistake to attempt an mmo of that scale. MMORPGs are the riskiest games any dev team could make, even having a strong IP to build it around isn't a guarantee it'll work.
You would have to have a dent in your skull to think crowdfunding mmos is a good idea.
Chris Roberts would disagree with this statement, while on his Yacht drinking backer paid champagne.
Difference with Star Citizen is it’s actually still around and is still getting updates. In fact, it’s just gotten one of the largest updates in its history.
I've been waiting years for dice, no way I'd ever expect an entire mmo.
@@tiestofalljays Na it's still a huge scam
Its only going cause the same whales insisting it'll be done eventually are buying ships for 10s of thousands each. @@tiestofalljays
Digital Extremes literally pulled out and disasambled the publishing division as soon as the former warframe director took the CEO seat. Idk if they pulled out cus they couldn't handle it or if Steve Sinclair wasn't a fan of this move from the first place tbh.
tbh after i played this game pre-release, when it was nothing more than a broken and kinda clunky mess, hearing that they overhaul the whole thing and make it into a Singleplayer experience with opt in coop is something that made me more excited for it than i ever was since i played it back then. If they keep working on it, i could imagine this game to become a "No Mans Sky story", but that is something we will hopefully see in the future.
Don't give money to projects unless you can afford to lose that money.
I got the $150 edition, not mad. Gotta be emotionally mature.
Words of wisdom.
@@TentaclebuckeT you mean we that paid $150 aren't supposed to whine and cry and send the dev death threats??? But fr people are way too happy to spend money on something that may or may not come to fruition in the end. Only ones to blame are themselves
I can understand if that was with a unknown company but it went through a legitimate publisher. Its like buying a samsung TV from Amazon and getting a Westinghouse.
@@jlee9360 except the publisher decided it didn't want to publish anymore and left the developer holding the bag.
The game pulling a Kingdom's of Amalur and becoming an Outriders/Borderlands like, will honestly do it so much better. I'm all for this.
Did you really just use Outriders as a valid good example huh lmfao 😅😅😂
@@ashleyjanes7420 I think its pretty obvious he's referring to the style of game, an arpg that plays a bit like an mmo, rather than the success stories of the individual games. Not like KOA was successful as all releasing alongside skyrim, shit shut down a whole studio. Fun game though
that pfp 💀
@@ashleyjanes7420 Outriders is amazing though, its extremely fun to play, its possible it garnered hate from when it came out but I found it to be really good once I ignored ratings and past criticism.
Actually, just talking about it makes me want to install it again.
I'll probably play it if it's like a looter now that sounds fun. I do like the art style and the characters so I'll probably check it out again when it's ready
To be honest this wasnt really an mmo to begin with, never felt like it
Further proof why preorders are poison.
And Early Access. I don’t mind them but damn.
It wasnt really a preorder at the time. The game was originally going to be coming out for free. Founders pack was mainly to just support development and get goodies for supporting it. now you are losing eveyrhting you got form founders packs for supporting the game because its all being wiped.
Yep, my trust was already low in Early Access, but this was the final nail.
I rather pirate an early access game then even backing one ever again. I'll buy it at full release, but assholes like Airship syndicate never ever will deserve a single EA dime from me anymore.
Companies like these are the reason people still default to pirating.
I have ZERO pity for anyone who pre-orders anything.
It is pretty easy to tell a game that's a scam from a real game, but that's to veteran gamers.
New gamers are getting scammed left and right, and this won't stop because gaming has always been on the rise.
Specially MMO.
If there is a type of game that fail the most often is is MMOs.
Exactly. I personally do not buy Early Access games at all due to how much changes (or just dies) before a game launch. I wont pay to beta test games.
I preordered fkn diablo 4 im sad, I only fkn played like a couple hours on the beta
@@ProxCQ at least it isn't as bad as before tbh... remember when kickstarter game backing started popping off and tons of games were scams or slow to release, with mansions suddenly being purchased for the main team leads?
Ngl, this impromptu interview is what has made me check out the game on steam. Gonna wishlist it.
They had Day 1 bugs they said they fixed multiple times and they were never fix.
Single player is better than live service almost 98% of the time Helldivers is a rare rare diamond in the rough outlier of these stats
HD2 is p2p with microtransactions. It's no diamond.
Lmao stop with the helldivers meat riding it’s no diamond
@@MS-en7mt well they do update the game every now and then and they use that money to do that so it is fair game But when they do it every other company does and just use it for personal gain obviously yeah then that's true
@@MS-en7mt no. HD2 HAS microtransactions but is not necessary to level up with it. You can earn the super credits by doing missions and you can still obtain the gear from doing it. It may take longer because of the farming, but it gives you the ability to earn it. If you don't want to farm and play then you can buy it. It's a diamond because the microtransactions isn't forced on you and you have the ability to earn the items put on the store to be bought. Also, the items on the store doesn't really affect game play in the sense you can buy it and become OP, it's mainly cosmetics or minor amor upgrades with a cosmetic look. All the armors you earn or can buy have the same attributes such as the medic one. You're wrong on this.
ROCK AND STONE BROTHER
People that backed Fortnite in alpha be like "First time?"
I backed both......guess I will never learn smh
I mean with Fortnite I can still play save the world and get free v bucks by doing dailies and could even give the free v bucks aspect to 2 other people plus enjoy all the new shit if I do choose or not.
Everquest landmark fans....
I was waiting to buy this game, The Publisher, who is literally Digital Extremes, the creators of Warframe pulled out and it went downhill from there
people saying the dev is in the right are just wrong, you cant advertise a game as mmo, sell founderpacks for 150 dollars then change it to singleplayer, not give a refund, then give items worth nothing in a game you didnt buy.
It will always be true that the only games you will ever really own will be peer to peer or custom server open. Any live service or licensed software YOU DO NOT OWN. This is why self hosting and peer to peer will become the norm in the future in any sane and fair society. If we continue to purchase games with live services that aren't free, we will continue to promote this nonsense. 1994 Doom was peer to peer. Quake was self-hosted. We need to go back to that.
This sane and fair society, is it in the room with us right now? Sorry just being a bit cynical
Killing floor still permits client server hosting, it still exists in the world its just very not common
Asmons editors worked fast AF to get this up. Nice work.
I recall the events surrounding Curt Schilling and his studio which was developing Kingdom's of Amalur. That title was originally intended to be an MMO, yet it ultimately became a single-player game, released much too late and at great cost considering the resources invested in it. Occasionally, once the dominoes begin to topple, there's no halting their descent.
That's a whole new level of love to try to save your game but also have a roadmap penciled in that if this works we are going to continue on this path and make this even better.
It should have been a 4 player coop game since the beginning. 😞
The game should have never existed from the beginning. The world would have been better off without.
@@KazuyaYuza Indeed, just like you.
Props to him for coming on and answering questions, and even more props to Airship for trying to take a live service game and make it single-player and peer-to-peer co-op. Here's hoping they succeed, glad we don't have another live service to bring gaming down.
This is what should happen to live service games when they’re shutting down just make it peer to peer multiplayer and single player. Like Diablo 4 should get this treatment and adding more items to interact with in the main game when they sunset it.
14:37 That's completely inaccurate
I genuinely thought the thumbnail was from Dauntless.
The fact that he went out of his way to make his case of the whole situation to a random streamer is a really transparent move.
On top of that, he has to be extremely careful with what he says to avoid legal consequences.
One hell of a minefield to navigate through talking on the top of his head. Not much room for corporate talk.
I did some cross-referencing, and his resume checks out. I’ll hear what he has to say.
"random streamer" I'm not a fan of Asmon but he ain't random.
It was a cool game but it was gimped by mmo stuff in the game awful instance based maps where you would either get no one doing wb or it dies so quick you miss it and it's gone for hours
Sounds like it will become something similar to Remnant with it's coop
I think people have MMOs all wrong. They use a lame formula. They need some new creative ideas.
Well this game worked more like Warframe, and not WOW, thats why Digital Extremes handled everything like the cash shop and network stuff
People don't realise that the biggest and most important factor in MMO's is a balanced well functioning economy. If the loot that gets dropped is too easy to get it will get sold for pennies on the market and the items you can craft with it become worthless, basically inflation inside the game. This in turn can make crafting unviable or uninteresting economically, since you might spend more on crafting materials then selling it in the market just to level up your crafting level.
If all the loot is either worthless or extremely expensive nobody wants to grind the worthless stuff and instead everyone clusters around the extremely expensive endgame loot while all the other places remain empty wastelands.
I payed for the 150 edition, it came out as a MMO style game, with all MMO games you pay your money you take your chance, it's annoying but oh well, just going to wait and see what we get now.
Same.
Same, payed the $150 and have no sympathy for the people whining. If you have no risk tolerance you have no business spending that kind of money.
oof -150
that's fair
Genuinely curious why you buy into a situation like this?
After this conversation, I feel like any company that this guy works for should give him infinite amounts of money. That was some amazing PR! I think. I'd hire that guy in a heartbeat if I was in charge of recruitment for a community management team. Never heard of wayfinder but I'm definitely going to check it out. Pretty much solely because I'm hearing about this and this guy coming on and talking about it
So am I one of the few that think it would honestly be better as a peer to peer multiplayer game just overall and pricing and content could be altered towards that as opposed to an MMO with egregious pricing?
Sucks for the backers, but it's probably a better idea to make a coop game than an mmo.
Haven't seen any new good mmo in ages.
More importantly, who the hell makes an mmo with NAMED CHARACTERS rather than races or classes or anything?
That's a terrible character creation model for an mmo.
yeah an mmo that had you purchase characters like warframe. or you could "craft" them. like warframe.
Bruh just cause something is MMO doesn't mean it's like WoW or some shit 😅 it's literally massively multiplayer online, you know like a game that's online with multiplayer and people sharing a same server or instance. Not that hard to figure out
@@terminalarch6767 calling a warframe a character is still a bit of a stretch
Named characters as playable characters in MMOs aren't common nowadays, but they used to be a norm in Asian MMOs. Depending on the style of game and what it's supposed to focus on, named characters can make sense - that said, there is a reason why they fell out of fashion, and that's because it's not popular with the general MMO player base.
Vindictus is like that, classes are basically characters so if you want to play with sword and shield you have to be a girl named Fiona and if you want to play with a bow you are locked into a dude named Kai. Not that weird to me, makes class-specific sets easier to make for the devs too.
19:10 "No one has really done this before" That is not true. Project Copernicus was a MMO that was created by 38 Studios founder Curt Schilling and writer R. A. Salvatore. It was later reworked in to becoming Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
And i looooove Amalur, got over 1000 hours in it, and with 300 hours in wayfinder, im ALL for them taking the game this direction!
I had no idea that Salvatore was behind the game. My favourite fiction author and one of my favourite RPGs. Now I gotta reread the dark elf trilogy and play some Re-Reckoning lol
Bro this explains so much. I remember when KoAR first came out I played it thinking "This feels like an MMO that someone turned into a single player game. I had no idea I was actually right.
It's not true, that was a separate game they acquired along with the studio and made part of their franchise in order to put something out iirc
It is true in the sense of a game that's already playable and running. KoA: Reckoning had it's shift long before they released even a demo build but for a playable game to go from MMO to Singleplayer? Can't think of one, even Hellgate: London was taken off market and servers got shut down for a long time before they finally brought it back as a singleplayer game even though it's basically just shovelware with no dev still updating it or anything.
I might play it again now it's going single player. Group finding was a pain.
15:54 there is no thinking on their part. Steam just accepts it when you explain the situation to them. There's a whole Reddit thing of the entire situation that you send them and it accepts most of the time
Stop buying games that are obviously going to have a 90% chance of sucking. At least stop buying them for 100+ dollars. And for people saying its a scam.... at least they are trying to keep something alive. If they dont the game just doesnt exist and you have nothing for the money you spent anymore. You take the risk when you pay for a product that it will not do well and will not be supported anymore. Just because they have to pivot to something else doesnt mean you deserve your money back. You know the risk when you purchase a game that is an online game and you took the risk. You just happened to lose on that risk.
Exactly. What they are doing is basically what everyone has asked for on games that are hitting an end of service or being shutdown.
Depends. If people get refunds for MMO content, sure. If not, it is a scam. Not fully but still a scam. At least actual game is being developed and might be good.
People will seriously bend over backwards to protect liars and thieves
the game didn't suck tho, people genuinely licked it, and its avg player count before being shut down shows this. The guy literally explains why all this went down and people still dont get it....
@@i.amsway7878 I definitely get that, I played it and thought it was alright. In that case I would say a game that likely had no chance to succeed in what they are trying to accomplish.
considering the MMO is failing i think that single player with peer to peer multiplayer sounds like more then most people get. I wish more MMO's would do this then they find they cannot sustain the servers.
If WoW and the Devision 1 and 2 did that i would spend the rest of life finishing them
Honestly this sounds like this is turning into a better game. I'm down for this pivot.
19:40 , when asmon asked what was next, did he answer "drink"?
if its not on your system. you do not own it. thats just the way live service stuff like a mmo works. the fact that people are even getting compensated in the new single player game is more than generous. theres prob thousands of early access games that are no longer playable and has long been abandoned.
yea airship couldve just cut their losses when DE left months ago but they persevered to release this for us
OUCH METER 📈
15:00 he doesn't need to push the button steam does and steam has already done it for lots of people. He's not involved steamers
I wish so many games MMOs that went under had done this, I have "Collector Editions" of games that aren't even playable anymore... Warhammer Online, Vanguard, etc. Having a single player game would surely be different, not having the other players, and in some games it would make it hard to do certain content unless it was adjusted, but I'd still rather have the games.
I just dont have faith in any MMO game being released now.
Good, you shouldn't. Faith can blind us to reality. At most we should be cautiously optimistic and see what happens before hyping shit up before a game is even finished.
The only game I can say I'm looking forward too in the next few years is Light No Fire.
Too many damn microtransactions, they always turn to pay to win and it ruins the game
Asmon usually has some damn good questions for these.
Especially toward physicians.
no more mmo's unless they are a year in strong, with a solid fanbase. period
Ngl im kinda hyped to try it now with some friends. I just dont get the dungeons I guess you can solo them if you play alone? Otherwise im kinda interested to see what its like now.
Digital Extremes, not Airship Syndicate, should be liable for the refunds, and Steam should push hard for the players to get refunds and charge DE for every penny. The crew at AS is basically salvaging whatever they can for a project they spent five years of their lives working on, only to be tossed to the curb by DE. Here is hoping that AS didn't sign some ridiculous contract with DE that leaves DE without any liabilities. 🍻
Digital Extremes closed their publishing arm 9 months ago. They've been out of the picture on Wayfinder for almost a year.
The Dev trying to spin this like it's DE's fault as though this is recent, when Airship Syndicate chose to go independent instead of finding an alternative publisher is pretty scummy. They had plenty of time. There are interviews from the discussion where they are "excited to be in charge of their own course" finally. They chose to go indie, and failed.
@@jazzyjswift they probably didn't have a choice. As an example Digital Extremes couldn't find anyone to publish Warframe and they had to make a completely differentgane called "dark sektor"
Even gr8 games can struggle to find a publisher and as you can tell publishers push things regardless of what the devs want
@@VetriVade Agreed. People who call this "scummy", IMO, seem to have little to no idea how complex the entire situation was. They just go full caveman "we want money back ooga booga scam oog oog" without thought of where their money actually went to and who actually got what % of their money. People there acting like Airship got 100% of their money locked behind a safe or something.
For me, if I was Steam, I'd ask a simple question - who was the publisher when the game's special versions were bought? If they said DE, well, I'd redirect their refunds to that publisher. Or recommend people sue the original publisher. Screaming at Airship won't help IMO.
Soulframe killed Wayfinder
@@jazzyjswiftDE is known to be a bad publisher, nothing they backed succeeded, they were right to cut publishings arm, but the timing was unfortunate.
It's safe to assume that the game depended on DE's support to at least make it to release.
You can tell he's trying to explain the business reasons for the pivot, and he mentioned that the online function might return. It seems they've shifted to a single-player with co-op to simplify management, and if the game attracts a healthy number of players, then they will add more content. The game's fate whether it dies or thrives is in the hands of the player base. It's a tough position to be in, but I'm glad they're attempting to deliver a product rather than letting it fail.
after all this happening there is no future for these devs. They were horrible even on discord on launch they downplay everything and make empty promises then dont show up when its time to show results.
I really like what Airship has put out previously with the Darksiders side of things and I still play DEs Warframe religiously, but when this was announced I was VERY skeptical.
13:12 The correct answer is yes. I'm working with steam with anyone who is requesting a refund
"I didnt take the money" so then who has the money??
Anyways, all you have to do is just contact team steam support and tell him the situation of digital extreme leave -in and the baeden switch of MMO to single player and they will refund you.
dam Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning I played the shit out of that game, had no idea it was suppose to be an mmo
I liked my own like
Okay, so we're not getting the mmorpg we've been waiting for. However, the game got completely reworked/overhauled by a team of 85 in the hope to still provide an rpg/open world/co-op game to the founders and the current investors/gamers, is still super awesome! If this publisher drama is true, and all things are transparent with the community, this game will be successful. I'm proud to hear that the devs are actually giving a fk.
I heard very little about Wayfinder when it came out, but when I heard that they were going away from a live service model, I was imediately very interested and I would love to try it out.
The game studio didn't sell you the game, the publisher did.
They can't give you money back they didn't recieve.
Digital extremes have been farming money from warframe for over 10 years there never going to change that.
They're*
@@flavioromano8754 ☝🤓 Thank you for correcting his mistake otherwise I would've had to destroy him with my linguistical skills.
to be fair i have never seen a game with a more fair f2p business modell then warframe.
as an semi active player your able to basicly get every single thing you want even the very new stuff.
the trading in that game is so good i got more platin than i would even know how to spend it
Warframe is to gaming as hot dog water is to nourishment. Get better taste
@@alexpopov6661 salty? get better taste buds
Tbh ive never heard of this, but now that its not an mmo looking at the enemies and art i may get this if it does end up going for sale
Keeping the money of customers who paid for an mmo and received a coop game is probably fraud. Also, shutting down a game in alpha/beta and keeping the money from pre-orders is also fraud because alpha and beta is not what youre purchasing when you buy a game on steam. If that was true companies could charge you for alpha access, beta access, and then charge for the game after release. Not sure this is a good path to go down.
Digital Extremes screwed them over. I think Airship Syndicate might close down. This is so sad as they are made up from people from Gunfire Games who are actually the old devs from Vigil Games that made Darksiders back in the THQ days.
Imagine blaming the PUBLISHER for making your launch-day of the game a disaster. Besides servers being dead game also crashed like 10 times per hour
24k to 20 players, surely the devs are the flawless golden baby? blame the publisher for what, dodged a bullet?
Digital Extremes pulled out of Wayfinder 9 months ago because their entire publishing arm closed. People at DE lost jobs. It had nothing to do with dodging a bullet, they've been out of the picture for awhile.
That's got nothing to do with Airship's management of Founder's investment now.
1 early access 2 a publisher with a successful first game should be able to make decent servers for launch and most of the liver service systems of progression came with the input of digital extremes Warframe pretty much progress the same unless you pay
@@Lekser yeah because publishers have never been responsible of setting release dates and refusing to budge if the game is not ready yet
Damn that's unfortunate it definitely had potential I really liked how it looked.
Mybe it can be like No Man Sky and as time goes on they can add elements to move closer to what it was
In a world where games ALWAYS have season passes and cosmetics locked behind a paywall AND a time limit this is a breath of fresh air. I did pay 150 bucks for this game thinking mmo but this gives me a chance to be able to enjoy and not worry that im missing out if i dont spend every day to finish the battle passes. Im ready for the rerelease
Listen, the creative process changes the end design regularly. This is why you don't pay people before the product is done, and if you do, YOU accept the risk.
the issue is people paid for founders packs people are really more upset at the fact that we lose all our founders stuff.
If anyone is worried about the disparity between this announcement and we DE closed their publishing wing, just remember US court let alone international court is fucking slow. The Microsoft ActiBlizz acquisition took years to go through. As was under NDA for a lot of this time until they got the rights back for what they worked on. DE could have fucked everyone by just killing Wayfinder and keeping the IP, assets, art, code, etc.
This unfortunately was the best outcome in a situation where DE fucked up. Just remember he even hinted at this, DE was to provide the servers and login stuff while the devs did the game. The server issues at launch was more likely the fault of DE not AS.
it's honestly a good move by the dev, they are the first devs to not just shutdown the game, and actually made the game playable offline, very genuine imo. sad their playerbase are a bunch of crybabies.
Not really the first, devs who made the Kingdoms of Amalur also went into a similar scenario, much worse if you asked me. They delievered the game as a singleplayer finished product instead of the envisioned MMO.
This is one of those occasions that shit just happened.
The dev was crossed in the middle of DE layoffs, as a chunk of it was the publishing division and it makes some sense. DE went through the wringer from publishing games that failed, layoffs and CEO shift. I hold back saying much about them since I need to see what they say and what they're planning...
as for the dev, I'm glad they still put the game out and will build it from there, even if it isn't an MMO there is something to build on, or even make a stand alone game with the MMO aspect.
Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. Time will tell how this all shakes out. But I am proud of what the team has built
Been a founder since day one, I have already come to terms with what happened and I'm just glad the game is gonna be available forever.
they sold this as a fantasy warframe and now this...
wat a shame
L devs
@@drJhowPhd L Digital Extremes
@@drJhowPhdwas it not?
It is extremely disappointing that many of the reasons for buying founders packs are going away
I do see the passion though and I count myself as one of the gamers that appreciates the transparency and willingness to not just kill the game. Just wanting to see what can be done for those who supported the most from the start.
"Wayfinder Training Force here" I had 1600 hours put in and had over $100 of in game currency sitting on my account
Sad days
the real problem here is , you spending 1600 hours of your life on a video game
@@konstantingr5928I was a youtuber creating content in the game. I led as far as I know as the highest ranked American player
They should have left Matchmaking at least in the game and offered xp bonuses for players who spent time in game
Sounds like you got your money's worth out of it then. Shit like this is gonna happen with the modern gaming landscape being what it is.
This is honestly a huge win under these circumstances. I mean just look at the other video asmon had put out about games getting abandoned and no longer being around. This is exactly what people wanted instead of games shutting down and never being playable again.
Its a shitty situation that they had no control of and hopefuly it turns out great so more mmo / always online games do this if they shut down.
18:27 he just lied right here you can. You do have a button to accept refunds
If not in their steam page profile to set that up, you can contact steam to do that
Are you a dev who suddenly had their publisher who controlled all that drop you?
@razier5299 they are not lol, they're spitting nonsense