Why We Might Not Get Another Good MMO | Asmongold Reacts
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- čas přidán 30. 04. 2024
- by @J1mmy • We might not get anoth...
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Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmongold
If you own the copyright of content showed in this video and would like it to be removed:
/ catdanyru - Hry
Thanks for giving it a watch Asmon!! ❤
Ive been waiting for this crossover!!
Jimmy!!!!! Loved you for years
Thanks for the video bro, love these deep dives
New world was the best time ive had gaming, while simultaneously being so completely infuriating and incomprehensible. Hope another one comes around and we get to fuck around again
love your videos J1mmy you and settled are my favourites
Watching Asmon flipflop between video to video how graphics doesn't matter and how much graphics matter, is a work of art
Its a shame, really. I used to respect a lot of his takes, but he seems to contradict himself a lot.
I personally think it can be both at the same time, I don’t need a game to melt my brain with how good it looks. That doesn’t mean I’m fine with it looking like dog shit tho.
@@OukiLips Thats not the issue here. He can have the EXACT SAME CONTEXT, but different game than one he plays, like wow, and his take changes completely, like mirror opposite.
At this point its clear his "graphics" take isnt rooted in fact, but his nostalgia VS games he have yet to try.
Graphics matter to someone trying out a game for the first time. Given a similar price, someone looking for a new game is going to have a higher likelihood of picking the game with better graphics. Also, graphics don't just mean graphical fidelity. Proper art direction also matters a ton. At the same time, the substance of a game matters a lot more than the graphics when it comes to its longevity. Nobody is gonna care about an unreal engine 5 game with epic graphical fidelity and art direction if the gameplay is ass. No shit. But they both matter, just at different points in a consumer's relationship with the game.
I think he's always said art direction is more important than graphical fidelity. Wow gets away with low graphical fidelity because the art direction is good, and the stylised graphics look good in that context. If they had gone for realism, it would look trash because of the engine.
People act like EverQuest didn’t exist. Without EQ, there’s no WoW. Maybe everyone is too young to remember but the real ones remember running from Qeynos to Freeport
Hell yea, thank you!
Wow hired everquest players to help design the game.
Now EverQuest was my favorite MMO
Having played probably 30+ top tier mmo's since Ultima Online, I missed EQ1.
Ever quest was the sh*t I used to play it all the time as a kid.
ironic twist: a massively successful huge mmo is released in the future that is as popular as you dreamed and starts the next golden age of mmos.
but you don't actually enjoy the game yourself
Sad
Is there a game you’re thinking of here?
@@chrisjparke no
The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to conclude that GW2 and FFXIV have shit graphics but not wow... All of them look outdated.
can you give me the timestamp of him saying wow doesn't have shit graphics, i watched the video but missed that
@@ironsotg9490Pretty sure its implied in the statement "these two other games look like shit and have shit graphics". He's also specifically said it plenty of times in similar conversations
@@horniklas5646WoW has a very distinct artstyle, but yeah, he is biased because WoW is the game he's played the most of them all, lots of precious memories that he values greatly were made in that game with some of the most important people he's known in his entire life (his mom being one of them). So of course he is going to always be very preferential towards WoW, it is an incredibly special game to him exactly for that reason alone
He never implied that but again you might be restarted
he has always said wow has shit graphics. it does, but they are also super styalised. FFXIV has low fidelity graphics, and they arent particularly styalised either. They look a lot worse. I agree wows graphics are shit, but they are still better because they are much higher resolution. Whether or not you prefer the graphical style is entirely subjective, but the fact that they are much higher definition and quality is a fact.
Asmon : Graphics just need to be good enough to see. What really matters is gameplay.
Also Asmon: The graphics are trash. Bad game.
Naaaaaah - a game should try to look it's development year age.
What Asmon really said and we all know it, is of course that a game needs to do both.
Good gameplay & good visuals.
We are gourmet players here after all.
He's just as intellectually dishonest and blind to his own biases as he accuses everyone else as being.
@@LawfulBased ff14 is having an upgrade in 2 months
Bruh, it implies that it isn't GOOD ENOUGH to see. Which I agree with runescape, immersion is null when you look at clay models made by toddler for school project.
@@araamahasla555 We can apply this to a simpler game like Tetris, would you rather see old school graphics or a modern take with eye candy, I'd take the latter every time.
LMFAO "OSRS will never come back" It already did 10+ years ago and it's going stronger than ever. Not because of nostalgia but because of satisfying progression and tons of great updates.
People don't put 10s of thousands of hours into a game out of nostalgia. They do it because goals within the game have more meaning than any game coming out today.
Just look at the massive player boost whenever a new league starts.
Jesus fucking Christ, I got an aneurysm from his flip-flopping. This was an L gallery, fucking hell.
And he's super SUPER DUPER confident about it. He's gonna be honest, guys.
When Asmon voiced his opinions in this video, he was contradictory multiple times and some times didn't even justify his opinion. I mean, I get that they aren't truth statements, but rather opinions, but I feel like especially if you're gonna contradict yourself, at least justify it somehow or there's no substance.
And I get one from you for thinking you could understand anything if that what you got from this video.
That's literally Asmon in every video. Talking about shit he has no idea about, being overly confident about opinions based on incorrect facts, flip flopping in the same clip.
@@LuciusVulpes So you describe yourself because you don't agree with him so he wrong and you are right. Overconfident about him and your opinion on him. Never doubting yourself.
I started playing old school runescape like 5 years ago while having 0 experience with the original game at the time and im having an absolute blast. Its not because of nostalgia, its genuinely a great game!
How you liking the new area? I only played it for like half a day but I see a lot of potential
@@umburonThe coloseum is very hard but offers a juicy new best in slot quiver. Other than that the pelirous moons is nice mid game content eapecially for iornmen.
I like the hunter guild, made me wanna train hunter again after years or not touching it.
The driving force for a a majority of OSRS players is going to be nostalgia. This is not saying the game isn't good, it's saying it had an easier time getting it's "foot in the door" so to speak on getting a majority of the playerbase to initially start playing due to the nostalgia of back in the day.
man normally I can put up with Asmons 'say something completely subjective and act like it's 100% the only truth that exists" but dear god this video is a tough watch.
Dude!!!! I was looking for a comment like this.
This one was so bad wtf. I normally agree with most Asmon takes, but this video.. holy
What did you not agree with?
Seemed like asmon was in a bad mood. Just being as negative as possible
No Asmon has been on a down trend of in his words "seeing things as negatively as possible".
More cynical
More stuck in his own world and own Views.
The twitch Job fiasco showed this when his tripled down Backfired.
He still cool tho
Bro at least have the common courtesy to flush this comment of yours rather than shitting it out and leaving it there for all of us to see.
I have listened to Asmongold for as long as i can remember and always been a real fan of the discussion, honesty and humour but recently, over the last 3 months i would say, its just "L take" after "L take" and im really quite concerned that hes lost his way.
The direction of MMO's is not playing alone and sometimes seeing another player. Those games just aren't MMO's, by definition.
Yes, but all the MMOs have privacy features that allow you to be alone or with a group of people of your choosing. It is small feature, but it exists in them.
I don't really get the idea of Asmon sitting there for an hour and calling every video game other than 2004 WoW shit and absolute garbage. Literally during the video whenever a new video game genre came up in discussion he listed the top 5 or top 3 most popular games of that genre and then go "yeah they're all garbage you can't jump the graphics suck" like ???
Because its true, back in the days all other games compared to WOW was dogshit, not even close, it's just copium when people say Final Fantasy or GW2 etc was ever close, yeah these days the are the most popular games besides WOW BUT they are all garbage now people are just coping when they say x game is good etc
@@Toxickys Man wow wasn't even the best game when it came out. What it WAS was the most accessible and the first major MMO based on an established IP with the clout blizzard had back in the day as being THE premiere banger gaming company. FF11s story was better. DAoC had better pvp. Everquest had better large scale raiding. But these games were also not as polished graphically nor had the name brand behind them and also just had alot of old school shit in them that blizzard got rid of or majorly downgraded.
TLDR Blizzard did everything good, released a polished product, had great accessibility and also powerful brand recognition.
But it wasn't the BEST at anything in particular, but it didn't need to be. Arguably its combat was the most fluid compared to previous MMOs due to how they did the resource system, but it didnt have the best sound effects or impact either. And Ever since about 2010, it didn't have the best combat either with other MMOs or semi-MMOs releasing.
@@cmerk100 Nah bro, you are giga coping, those games are all dogshit compared to WOW not even close, it like comparing some 1000$ car to a 100 mil ferrari lol
@@Toxickys I swear these people must all be under 20 years old, they weren't there. WoW was mindblowing back then, legit made me want to go to my friend's house every day just to watch his older brother play WoW. We would just sit there watching, it was better than TV or than playing ourselves. He paid for his subscription with his job, while his younger brother and me had our parents refuse to pay a subscription to a videogame because they thought it was a scam, so they got us Guild Wars instead and we played that, it was also great but nothing compared to WoW back then.
It was in a league of its own, not just graphics but the sheer novelty of it all, before everything got datamined to hell and back before the updates were even announced, going online just to READ ABOUT THE GAME that I couldn't even play.
@@Deliverygirl I was a day 1 player of wow and played wow for years. I didn't say wow was shit, I just said it wasn't the best in one specific area, but it was extremely good in ALL areas which made it better than its competitors and was far more accessible.
People just mad cause they never played other games before or during wows years.
Runescape actually has the best quests of any MMO
And best non-combat skill system.
i think ESO has better quests overall.
@@reigo141 nar, OSRS is the best and its not even close.
Yeah, but the grinding is insane
@@SynWasHereYogrinding is a skill.
Saying osrs is alive solely because of nostalgia is just pure insanity. Never played WoW but I'd imagine that when they released classic, the nostalgia wore off pretty fast. I assume that because it's what I went through with old school, the nostalgia doesn't last for 10+ years lmao, maybe a year tops. That's why the game took the direction that it did with adding new content, people were getting tired of the version of the game with no updates. Initially there were very vocal purists about just keeping the game in its 2007 state but even a lot of them converted because they realized that the nostalgia wasn't the only factor keeping them online. Sure the game might get a lot of people hooked on it initially off the nostalgia even in the current year but that is not keeping them playing the game for years afterwards, it's changed a lot and the content is great in all honesty.
It's not really pure insanity, it's just the truth. I honestly don't even see why it'd be a bad thing to say.
"Sure the game might get a lot of people hooked on it initially off the nostalgia"
Yes, and that's really important. Getting your "foot in the door" on getting people to start playing is the most important part. If there was absolutely 0 nostalgia surrounding OSRS it very well could be not as big as it is today.
OSRS is alive because bots and gold farmers lol. It's been on a death spiral for years now. The game needs a better client, ban 3rd party clients. Range ban several countries. Re-release 2007 scape, give us Godwars NO GE and leave it alone. It'll be a pvp paradise and a mil would be worth min 2 dollars USD for yeeears. Look at it now, less than 20 cents lmao
Also we didn't convert, we left. The end game of Runescape is pvp. Once you loose them it all tumbles down. Everything is a Pyramid scheme without pvp.
@@I-HAVE-A-BOMB "It's been on a death spiral for years now." game is literally more alive than it's ever been (inb4 it's all bots). I wish they would re-release a 2007scape with no updates just so people like you could realize that the game dies in that state lol. People literally will not keep grinding that version of the game, especially now since the game is so pvm heavy and a 2007 version has no hard content to do and no QoL updates to speak of. There's just simply nothing to do in that version of the game compared to where we are now, it's objectively a worse version.
@@I-HAVE-A-BOMB you had that at launch. you had godwars without ge and were left alone without updates for 2 years besides minor fixes, and then player count crashed. you had 38k then 40k at launch then you crashed to 10k. and hovered at under 20k then they started implementing updates and player count skyrocketed and rn has 114k which is higher than previous record during peak covid of 113k in 2020. sep 2014: 14.5k, nov 2014:15.9k dec 2014: 16.7k jan 2015:20.5k, feb 2015:25k, mar 2015: 36k data provided by misplaceditems
Asmon missed the plot:
Your typical MMO player is always looking for the next big MMO, but will indeed fall back to his favourite hate/love relationship with his first MMO. For Asmon this is WoW, sooner or later he always compares the new game to WoW and falls back into his WoW comfort zone.
No new MMO can ever win this game. Cause it would need to be a carbon copy of your first MMO love, but better AND without whatever you hated about it. That's straight up an impossible quest.
Very true
the next mmo would need to be skill based. they need to cater to newer generations not the nostalgia mmo guys who only loves stat checking.
competitive games destroys all mmo games combined in active players.
The grind should be getting good and strategic.
NOT increase stats/levels to beat the next boss.
The closest mmo fps gameplay could be like Overwatch(Tank,Dps,Healer). Imagine in a medieval/cyberpunk/Ancient fantasy setting with instance dungeon fighting Dragons, Aliens, Robots, Golems.
Increase rank to E rank > D rank > ... > S rank adventurer or something
But it's not though, there are plenty of games with huge player bases like league and valorant. Fortnight elden ring. Imagine if borderlands made a good MMo. Like war craft 3 lead to WOW. There are games with fan bases that would love mmos.
@@RealName-ox9tk Huh?
That may be a reply to the video, but it certainly isn't one to my comment here.
You know, the comment that was about MMO players wishing for a new big MMO that can satisfy them.
Meanwhile you are talking about players that aren't even into MMO's yet, aka a totally different target demographic.
But lets tackle your examples:
League, Valorant and Fortnight are already online multiplayer games, aka it's unlikely for them to gain much out of going down the MMO route (at the risk of pissing off their current playerbase).
Elden Ring is loved by many BECAUSE it's holding up the almost forgotten flag of singleplayer gaming... that and hardcore style MMO's failed over and over again (as seen in the video). I mean you can't turn Elden Ring into an easymode MMO and expect to keep your established hardcore fans, can you? Hence it would need to be hard and borderline unfair in terms of gameplay.
Borderlands? I thought that franchise was already exploited enough? Do we really want to MMO-ify the beaten horse.
@@RealName-ox9tk You can't conflate single player games with MMOs. Just like there is Zelda fans that never wanted the games to go open world because there is a lot of traditional game design that disappears with such a drastic change in direction there's a massive difference in how MMOs approach player agency versus single player games. Everyone shares the same space so how free and creative you can make individual playing experiences have to be limited, since it is a online world and it needs to be populated by many players there's stronger incentives to farm engagement by making the game grindier in general and not have proper endpoints etc.
Elden Ring but MMO is cool in concept but in practice it would have to change so many aspects of its design that it probably wouldn't appeal that strongly to its original fanbase.
It's the part I didn't understand at all where Asmon was conflating people flocking to play BG3 with MMOs under the pretense of "make a game good and players will flock to it" -- MMOs and single-player / coop RPGs are so far apart in design that they have no business being compared. MMOs due to their environment are too reliant on constant player engagement to produce a grind that is appealing to a more casual gamer.
Not the #1 WoW andy talking shit about another game's graphics... 💀💀💀
Asmon's rose tinted glasses for WoW are actively lowering the graphical quality of any other MMO he looks at.
Graphics are subjective, but it's insane he calls FF14's 'dogshit'. XD
It's still hilarious how he describes his perfect MMO as GW2, but actively refuses to look into the game.
It's like complaining that you're dying of thirst, but refuse any water you're given because it's not soda.
Yeah people just call WoW's graphics 'stylised', i guess if the style is old and shit then yeah thats probably accurate
Exactly , WOW classic looks like garbage and yet he doesn't seem to mind it.
Exactly this.
You could show FF and WoW to 1,000 random people who don't play games and I'd put my life on the line that 900 of them would say FF looks better.
He believes WoW looks better because he prefers the visual style of WoW over FF, but instead of saying "I prefer this style so I think it looks better" he says "Yeah everything that isn't WoW is actively fucking dogshit and everyone in the entire world hates it and anyone who says I'm wrong is stupid and also a loser."
Exactly, I think no sane person would argue that FF14 has amazing graphics, but they do their part. For a 11 year old game, they are more than okey ,but I never understood how people can call WoWs graphics good. They have their charm but over the years even that starts to feel off and painted clay look to it. Shadowlands actually had suprisingly amazing graphics ,but Dragonflight definetely shows its age.
But what do I know, I also play OSRS, graphics have little to no impact to me as long as I understand whats going on on the screen :P
@@CWS291 wow retail has 10 times better graphics and art style than FF lol
I think OSRS will always have a playerbase simply because its one of a kind. Theres nothing else like it and thats what makes it special imo...
OSRS has a massive amount of evergreen content. I do miss the days without the GE but realistically if you enjoy the clicking gameplay and puzzle quest style gameplay you could play for months and months easily. It's also has the best free to play version possible alongside FFXIV.
I love the confidence that Asmongold has concerning the gameplay and systems of MMOs he's never played and probably never even seen.
it's soo funny how he keeps talking about how FF14's graphics are trash while praising Classic WoW.
Exactly! I think WoW is a better game but there's no way in hell WoW's blocky, pixelated graphics with the most smoothest and basic of textures looks good. Most armor literally looks like a stretched out low quality JPEG pasted on your char (especially cloth armor) and the shoulder pieces look so goofy. It looks worse than PS2 graphics.
Asmon just prefers the art style of WoW (which it probably burned into his brain from playing so much WoW growing up) which is fine and all but it's a personal preference and thus he's just being biased, presenting an opinion and preference as facts.
Classic WoW has a stylized art direction which holds up better, similar to OSRS. FFF14 attempts to look realistic and doesn't so it looks worse imo.
WoW graphics are for toddlers
disney 2d classic cartoon versus modern cgi cartoon
art style matters more than fidelity and complexity
@@Abef what stylized art? you mean the 1980's art??? outdated ugly art?? ok buddy lol
We did it, Jimmy
YEEEEEEEEEEEES
This dudes fan base has been constantly reposting his videos 100+ times on the subreddit and keeps getting downvoted to the negatives. For once they all comment on the post and upvote it collectively and asmon watches it.
His subreddit is being brigaded by physician 2.0. Stop this clown behavior, the subreddit is going so far downhill.
I can’t believe he did it.
@@jackb8410 huh
Gary did it man.
2004 WoW was like your very first girlfriend being a 10/10, then she gets 2 bonus points because she was your first. No girl, not even the same girl many years later, can compete with that 12/10
asmon checklist
✅ constant flip-flopping
✅ classic wow nostalgia bias
✅ "im just right"
✅ random argumentative points unrelated to that of the video
Final Fantasy 11 was not a flop. the original 14 that they erased and built from scratch (A Realm Reborn) was. Easy mistake if you never played 11.
FF11 was a great game for masochists like me.
In j1mmy's reaction to this, because that happened, he elaborates that he meant the first iteration of FF14, not FF11, and it was kind of poor wording
He meant money wise for the company that made it.
iirc FF11 was the most profitable FF game for SE until around ShB for FF14.
@@Tsuness219 I know but budget wise. You forgot that it took a lot of money to make these game.
He rants about graphics yet the 3 most popular games are WoW, FFxiv and Runescape. At some point you just have to admit you don't know what you're talking about.
How many new players come into those games
And how many people are holding onto nostalgia and u can't say that WOW graphics weren't great for the time
MMOs thrive more on art style rather than graphics so u hv a point there
Most people play those because of nostalgia, though. Graphics are not the end-all be-all, but other issues are less likely to be forgiven if the game looks like shit. There is a standard that a game's graphics needs to be above to entice new players.
One of the most popular video games is candy crush. Popularity does not always equal good products, those games you named objectively have dogsht graphics and you cant argue otherwise. That doesn't mean people cant enjoy them though, like some people enjoy cbt.
At some point, you just have to admit that you didn't listen to what he said. He was explicitly saying what he said with the context that those 3 games are at the top.
@@strykerx2461 WoW's graphics even when it got released was mogged by games like Lineage 2. Whoever says that this game looks good today is delusional with heavy tone of pink over their eyes. Art team did a great job creating colourful world with whatever assets they had but it does not go beyond that, visually everything in WoW looks like melted playdough.
Bro, wake me up when they have that Sword art og horizon shit, I'll be a 60 year old man strapped to the machine with a shit bucket hole on my chair but I'll be happy.
I doubt they could ever do that. It's fiction for good reason
@@yggreuyri5822 Widespreed BCI was also fiction, till the first patiant got its NeuralLink implant this year. And they are working hard on a Nervgear.
So maybe give it another 15-20 years.
You should watch shangri-la frontier. Now that’s a game you want to play
I mean we already have the first brain computer interface.
We totally have the tech to control games with your mind.
The dude was super stoked to be gaming again.
@@yggreuyri5822 Ehhh maybe, we'd need a major advancement in serverspace and pc's in general maybe up to 50 years or so but now that we have AI and it's starting to look somewhat promising I can see a future where that kind of thing could happen. Heck I could see a future where you could order an AI to do it by itself. There is also the fact that we are still exploring the human brain, I truly wonder if there is going to be a way to somehow simulate an avatar by hooking up your brain to a pc in the future. (Though that is all assuming we don't all get nuked in the coming 10 years by a crazy Russian)
I remember when Asmon went to the Maw of Souls and claimed this had better rendering than FF14. When if you looked there was no lighting of any kind on the boat, the background was poorly animated. Blizz artists just manually painted shadows into the textures and thats why theyre uniform acrosss the entire boat. The flames emitted no glow of any kind. And he basically went along the lines of "The shading and lighting here is totally better."
bro played 2 hours of OSRS
"One things games like OSRS and FF are massively lacking, is being a good game"
????????????????????????????????????????????
Dumbest take I've ever heard lol
OSRS and FF trash games
without nostalgia the early to mid game as a new player looks horrible for osrs
You don't need to eat a tub of shit to know that it tastes bad. In fact, most people can understand that with a whiff of smell. And if your game "gets good after trillion hours" it was never good in the first place, you are just coping hard out of sunk cost fallacy.
@@TheZeagonstarted playing 9 months ago and its not that bad but its an insane time investment. I have like 900 hours and im still in the mid game
I haven’t seen him play it, but I’m willing to bet his simps gave him millions of gp and items and killed the feeling of earning anything for himself. Did he actually play any of osrs? Or did he just walk around accepting trades?
30:24 Ok I disagree with Asmon on this. Any sort of direct competition with another MMO you are essentially needing to pull players from other MMOs. Casual players can't afford to play 2 to 3 MMOs in their spare time. And you need a consistent and active player base to keep the game alive so you're looking for people who essentially give their time to a single MMO the more dedicated player base. They are not going to want to play more than 1 MMO at a time. This isn't Baldur's Gate where you can turn it on at any point and not miss anything or go at your own pace. You level up with your friends, guild members. You all find time to play together so you can dungeon, raid or PvP. Maybe you and a friend want to do questing together in a certain region, all of this takes time. Yeah you're going to pull people from different walks of life and people who are waiting for another good MMO to come around but your direct competition in a live service game where it takes time and coordination between players to complete stuff, it's just weirdly naive that he thinks it won't affect other MMOs. Or that with another live service MMO game it won't draw players who innately like this genre.
Yeah asmon was way off base here, and on the topic of getting the younger generation to get into MMOs. The problem with getting young kids into MMOs isn't just attention span, but you're competing with games like Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite. I think Asmon is imagining himself as a 12 year old, and extrapolating from there that kids these days will eager to play new MMOs.
This is extremely correct. The concept you're referring to is "fidelity", mixed with what is known as the "sunken cost paradox". MMO work on building fidelity with their playerbase. You do stuff in the game, you progress, you build connections, friends, memories, etc. Those are all things that require time and will build fidelity of your playerbase to your MMO. Now, to achieve those things you will need to invest time and effort and, the more you invest, the harder it will be for you to "restart" somewhere else. If anyone has ever played on a "private" server of a MMO, they will have experienced some sort of roll-back or restart. That, usually, comes with users leaving the game as the thought of restarting all over is dreaded cause your investment has gone to waste. Switching to another MMO is the same. You did so much already here, why go through the hassle again? Most people won't, and they will keep playing the "shittier" MMO that they have been playing for years instead of switching to the new one.
So, when a new MMO comes out, it needs to beat this obstacle to be successful which is very hard to do and it is not required by other games (Such as baldurs gate etc). This comment is becoming really long, and boring so I'll stop.
I disagree with him on a number of issues in this video, but I think you’re misunderstanding what he’s saying on this point. He’s not saying that they won’t pull from other MMOs or that people will then be playing multiple MMOs. He’s saying the next great MMO (whatever that means) will be pulling people from everywhere. It won’t be limited to existing MMO players. Yes, some people will leave WOW or FF to come play it. But ideally, most will be people who never really had an interest in MMOs until this hypothetical game changed the gaming landscape by changing what an MMO could be. Classic WOW did this years ago. BG3 changed what it meant to be a CRPG. When a game comes out that is truly great, it will transcend genre and will pull in people who never had an interest in that genre before.
Agreed, I also really dislike the graphic comparison with BG3, a game that is required to never be immersion breaking because it's a DnD style game, whereas most MMOs should have a focus on meaningful progression, and content that is rewarding and enjoyable to play. And also doesn't hold up because all of the most popular MMOs these days still look like shit, but because the game is actually enjoyable to play and even though the graphics are outdated, they can still make armor that feels cool to wear, the games are popular.
Then again, there are also a lot of people just waiting for that one new MMO that's slightly better or even just different, to jump ship.
"Get to max level as fast as possible." I have 730 hours in FF XIV and I'm only in the begging of Stormblood.
GW2 handles "quest" the right way. You have an area where you solve the problems whit 3-5 ways, and you do big chain quests as achievment chain.
It need to be updated and made in larger scale, but, it is better than "go kill 20 goblins"
Asmon usually has good takes but man on this video he has some 2Head takes, all it takes to mmo be good its a fucking addicting gameplay and a fulfilling progression, fuck grafics and p2w also
Yeah he seems angry.
*_Ashes_* ... ... ...
... ... ... *_of_* ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... *_Creation_* ... ... ...
Asmon: I don’t care about graphics it’s more about gameplay and is it fun.
Also Asmon: I never played Wind Waker because I hated the art style and graphics.
Also bashing ffxiv for graphics and saying they are holding it back 😂
FFXIV 1.0 looks better than SoD. Not everyone has tolerance for cartoonish elves, orcs, and balloon pauldrons.
He only watched this to assert his MMO won the popularity contest and didn't even bother pointing out the repeated inaccuracies in this video.
Asmon contradicts himself here when he mentions how we should move away from having large group content that is difficult to do, and then shortly thereafter starts talking about Log Horizon or Sword Art. The entire premise of those anime is that there is large group content that is too difficult to clear until the MC shows up and has the power/strategy to defeat it. That's the exact power fantasy of those shows.
I never heard Asmon spit so many bad takes one after another. Yeah, not one of these MMOs is ideal, not even early WoW. FFXIV's ShB and EW story for sure though is my favorite story of all time. And that's enough for me. Also, FF11 was NOT a flop and released in 2002, which the guy in video completely forgot to mention. Also, GW2's great!
You think gw2 is great. Why would anyone care about your opinion?
Remember that when Asmon has nostalgia brain and is very heavily biased he's also forgetting that in 2004 MMO's were almost unheard of.
That new feeling is very hard to get now.
But people were always trying to build it. MUDs are pretty much old school MMO’s.
The issue is people are forgetting what they’re supposed to build.
The goal started as building a computer based DND world that was persistent.
Wow took their DnD offshoot(Diablo) and made an MMO.
I don’t know if the detail of DND would be popular or niche. However, loads of the systems were optional for players.
Gameplay would basically be Oregon trail>dungeon crawl>Oregon trail.
For solo play, you could travel alone to a dungeon cheaply and could skulk around on the upper levels and perhaps find something.
Contracting NPC’s is also an option.
I think AI development is really needed to bring it all together.
The loot treadmill isn’t really needed. Asmon just thinks it is.
I disagree, don't know the exact years but somewhere in the 2004-2009 timespan, I lived on OnRPG trying MMOs and other genres all the time. Risk Your Life, Conquer Online, Maple Story, Gaia Online, and I'm sure hundreds others that I may have downloaded for a week and then deleted. They weren't unheard of, they just weren't a collection on someone's Steam account. You had to actually go look for them.
Did Asmon really compare the graphics of a game that came out in 2023 (Baldurs Gate) with a game that came out 10 YEARS EARLIER (FFXIV)??
They are still competing with each other regardless of when they were released.
@@patrickcarter1820 One of them is an MMO and the other is a single player RPG, those are 2 different publics, so they are not direct competitors. Also, it makes no sense to compare their graphics, of course a game that came out 10 years ago is gonna look worse than a current game, technology changes.
@@patrickcarter1820 Why not compare Baldur´s Gate to a single player FF visuals then?
The secret is they are both doing a bad job at trying to create DND on a computer.
DND should have a ‘persistent’ shared world. Time in Adnd was supposed to be on a 1 for 1 basis.
If you played DnD once a week, a week passes in the game. Lots of things could happen while you were gone. It helps the world feel real.
Every RPG is trying to make DND. Even the MMOs.
However, “progress” has happened in the DnD game system as well as the video games that had tried to emulate it.
What part of the original was lost but important? Which of the innovations are necessary and which can we lose?
Is there a new innovation necessary we haven’t thought of yet?
One thing dropped by DND I think people would like is just being able to build things. You can take a boat load of gold and an army of workers and create a castle.
The issue is: everyone can’t have a castle in the theme park MMO’s.
You need a sandbox. A big expansive world with “nothing”(kinda like real life). Well maybe full of monsters.
Enough room so every player can claim some territory and build but not seem strange or out of place.
And I don’t mean players get together and build it.
One player should be able to hire all the NPC’s to build it. Then should be able to have NPC’s staff it.
This includes a peasant population that moves to be in the safety of said castle.
Also allow NPC’s to manage things if you don’t want to.
Dwarf fortress has that mechanic.
In general, I think we need lots of ai to get closer.
Yes, he's not as smart as he pretends.
Asmon: "14 graphics look bad. looks like shit"
Also Asmon: "WoW looks great!!!" meanwhile it looks like an N64 game.
Edit: also on the point of saying 2004 WoW was peak; honestly ARR was 10000x better than 2004 WoW ever was
As a massive fan of FFXIV, ARR in 2014 was nothing compared to the grandiose scope of classic WoW. They are very different in design though. Square was focused mostly on narrative and spectacle. Coil was really the peak point of the entire game imo. WoW was much more atmospheric and slow paced. Both are peaks of the genre though and i think FFXIV has done a better job at improving the game over time. WoW has consistently let people down but at the same time it has so many beautiful things inside of it and an extreme complexity that no other MMO has. It's just so buggy and confusing to new players that I think people, fairly, bash it and miss a lot of the good things inside it.
Asmon talking about how games look or play like shit is ironic. Look at what games he is publishing 💀
TL;DR: You killed all the good ones for not being WoW.
WoW killer ❌
WoW is the killer ✅
There will never be another good MMO because all the potential customers are holding onto nostalgia from 15+ years ago. A genre like this just isn't sustainable.
guild wars 2 is so dope alwais weird hearing asmon trash on it without ever trying it
I no longer play GW2 but I would play and pre purchase GW3 in a heartbeat.
GW2 is garbage. Dw so is WoW. Ff14 I had fun with but care bear GMs killed that game for me, not giving them any money ever. Runescape 2007 no ge, pking was prime. Reddit and care bears wreck any game that comes close to that kind of pvp.
@@I-HAVE-A-BOMB what are you even saying?
“You cant jump in Guildwars 2”…….Gw2 literally has jump puzzles 🥴🥴🥴
It sucks that games are founded in this idea of "how can we get rich, fast" Instead of "How can we make a game that people will love and play"
MMOs need money, but were never meant to generate it. They were meant to be a perpetual, living embodiment of either a vision or an existing franchise. They exist because of the demand for full immersion. Ironic, considering retail is anything but immersive.
sadly this mindset is becoming the central part of a lot of companies nowadays, games or movies, the quality of things has been decreasing really fast in order to raise the companies money making.
how cute
@@wesso27although thats an undeniable factor ,a huge part comes down to the fact the cost of making is increasing significantly whilst they cant straight chsrge it, if we were willing to pay £100 for a game maybe theyd be better
You can thank capitalism for that but people don't like hearing that and will find any other reason imaginable, move the goal post or play "whataboutism" all day instead.
Still waiting to hear what exactly OSRS and FFXIV are lacking besides "graphic le bad". Funny argument from someone who unironically thinks that WoW's graphic looks good.
@@yuumishiro Hunts are open world content. Besides raiding there are plenty of things you could do, including stuff like Eureka, Bozja, Island, variant dungeons, deep dungeons, treasure hunting, PVP and god knows what else. Game offers plenty of things to sink your teeth in, you just have to dig a bit deeper under the surface.
Yeah that was a hottake for sure
OSRS: Archaic gameplay and mindless grind. The tick system and tile based movement feels like shit. Click tree/rock/monster and wait for 1000 hours is not fun or engaging.
FFXIV: No real innovation. What does it actually do differently? Subjectively, the story is good? Everything else about it is copy paste WoW gameplay with slight variation.
@@romofin Can you provide me 5 examples of innovations in MMO you'd like to see which are drastically different from anything we've seen before?
@@romofin hey we all know u play pubg and fortnite kid
Suprised asmon hasn't seen J1mmys video of him playing every version of WoW, it's a really good video.
"How many of you guys were this way in school: You could immediately pay attention and listen to things that you cared about, but if it was something stupid, you didn't care. It doesn't matter how much you try to listen, it just won't happen because you simply do not care." Bro just described ADHD better than anyone I've ever heard.
FF11 was NOT a flop. It was the most profitable game SE ever made until FFXIV
1million % the guy never played it. It’s probably top 3 best mmo of all time.
Actually 14 was the flop, then they remade it.
I feel like he's thinking of 14 before reborn
FFXI is the GOAT
I had to come to the comments to see what others had to say with this. I figure he doesn't even know of FFXI or it was misspoken. I STILL play FFXI off and on to this day because no other MMO could give me the same feeling with my time not being wasted due to changing out gear every few months.
Calling FFXI a flop is incredibly dishonest. It was the biggest grossing FF game up until the whole WoW debacle and everyone moved over to 14. FFXI is still going with a subscription to this day
I worded it wrong - was referring to FFXIV 1.0, that's my bad!
@@J1mmy Wow, I certainly wasn't expecting a reply from you of all folks haha. Thanks for the clarification. FFXIV 1.0 was quite the mess back then. Great video by the way. I listened to this one while I was at work, and had to immediately pull over to make that comment earlier haha. FFXI is by far my favorite MMO of all time but I think it has told some of the best stories in the FF world ever. Even out of the single player games. I listened to this video on the road today. Going to check it out now on your channel. You get my sub sir.
I like Asmon, but he took a giant L on this video. Him comparing BG3 to FFXIV (a ten year old MMO) made me facepalm. Dumbest argument he could have made.
Comparing a new game to an old game to show it's age is not dumb.
I don't know where you got that star wars story from, but that's total bs.
Lucas made one movie in '77 called Star Wars, that's it.
He didn't have an entire story planned out. Darth Vader wasn't Luke's father, that was decided during the making of Empire Strikes Back (which wasn't even episode 5 back then).
There was no episodic structure.
It only came after he started writing the sequel trilogy and he made a special edition of the og trilogy in the late 90's, and that's when it was called ep4, 5 and 6.
In fact after Return of the Jedi in the 80's he was thinking about another sequel. Which never happened.
I don't think GW1 was trash, it was just very limited on it's scope. pretty cool in that way, great at what it was. saying "why can't you jump in GW1" is the same reason you can't jump in path of exile, or diablo 2. it's essentially a weird ARPG/MMO hybrid. not a conventional deku mud (EQ/wow) style mmo
GW1 also didn’t have a gear treadmill which Asmon likes.
I think lots of the things he likes are superficial or negative.
Big damage numbers and a gear treadmill check mental boxes but is it really good game design?
That is the core problem with GW. It tried to advertise itself as an MMO when it wasn't. As you said, it is closer to a third-person ARPG in the same vein as Diablo. The real "MMO" bit is the towns where all the players congregate, in terms of actual gameplay it is story missions on instanced maps where the only players you'll see is your other party members and since the story missions are scripted to be fairly linear, jumping probably wasn't added to reduce the risk of sequence breaking. Jumping wasn't a problem, the way it branded itself was.
@@jeremymullens7167 There are some superficial things, but then there are immersive things. Not being able to jump is an immersive thing. Not being able to change the camera view is immersive. If I have to view your game from one angle, and control the character with limited mobility, while that could add to the challenge, it hinders my immersion into the character or the world.
Im sorry, but you just had a lot of unusual L takes this video.
Not only were you comparing BG3 and XIV at all, but also in graphic quality. Which is wild because one is 10 years old. There is also just a limit to graphics for an MMO especially one that was released on the PS3, and I could be wrong but until dawntrail still can be ran on it.
But saying in general that graphics are an absolute must is just a wildly insane take.
I was ready to hear your argument for XIV because there are alot it could improve on and some stuff I would love to see in it, but graphics is the one thing that makes no sense.
You are also weirdly stuck in the past. Like you keep bringing up classic wow, which for its time was massive to a scale we just haven't seen (technically). But you also keep equally saying games shouldnt be like it but also saying your perfect MMO is classic wow. Which is just insanely wrong, but that is opinion vs. opinion so live and let live.
Oh I also forgot about it but it was really weird to mention anime as for a thing to look at. Because:
1. Most if not all those animes you listed were almost very basic animes and there were very obvious class designs to it (fetch quests/kill 20 goblins)
2. Most anime games are just super unrealistic to function in the real world. SAO for example because of how its popular. If Aincrad was released today without its gimmick of full-dive VR it would be the most basic game out there and one of the worst if they specifically kept the once the floor boss is beat it could never be challenged again mechanic.
3. saying its really weird to watch someone play a game is kinda weird coming from a streamer, but also thats not what its about. You are watching a story that takes place in said game. The game can be interesting too, and you can relate more because its a game but you are still watching for the story.
4. and finally, Solo Leveling isn't a game. It is a dude in a world with essentially micro-heroes (hunters/people with powers). And his power just happens to be classic video game design. Itself is not a game.
2005 graphics was not a problem as few even had 640x480, 2012 graphics was still fine as few had 1920x1080
The point is that the graphics don't pull new players to the game putting it on a death timer.
This point is certainly only functional if the pool grew up with 1440p as the baseline and not like me or perhaps you with 480p or less.
Gundam 00 was one of the first Anime's that went full HD or ultra HD, it was sometimes a mess as the quality broke the old methods of achieving a sense of 3D.
Taking the step from Counterstrike 1.6 (whatever was between) and Counterstrike Global Offensive was so huge going back to older versions was very strange.
Opinion v Opinion until it's asmons, then only his is right lol.
@@torgrimhanssen5100 cool but the graphics aren't that bad though. Its stylistic vs. Realism. I won't fully defend them either, they need a massive overhaul which they are indeed doing. But its still keeping their style. And it'll always be style>photo realism.
No to mention you can't to massive graphics not only mmo but especially one that has to run on consoles. There is ALOT to load at one time.
Imagine a mmo that gives you a kill 20 quest and the goblins in question are in a fortification of a 200+ goblin town and they are balanced so 20-40 goblins are like 1 "hard" modern enemy
Asmon is the type to think he could represent himself in court.
Bros intellect is dropping off faster than his hair is.
Straight up trash talking
all these reacting over the years is starting to take its mental toll.
it looks like sometimes hes just losing it, zero effort, generalizing any sht that comes to his mind
Then quit watching him, problem solved.
Oh no he dogged a trash game that you like. No possible way all of you could just be biased.
55:01 i have to disagree as a runescape (osrs) player. The game has core mechanics like quests and more (as jimmy iterated on) that other games need to learn from. There are countless challenges in runescape that WoW just doesnt do. That truly make you feel accomplished. First example: Fire cape. Nobody feels bad after getting it. Nobody. Even asmongold himself would say. "Ya know what boys jad wasnt even hard, but it was worth it, i had to level my range at crabs overnight off stream for that".
Everything in runescape is like adding new fights to the brawlers guild and mage tower. While having the most sought after gear being group content.
With the option to solo group content if you have big enough balls.
Runescape (osrs) is almost perfect.
Yeah dude this. its super hard to explain to people how osrs feels. Quests are not kill 3 goblins but actually story. made a lot better with the runelite quest helper plugin.
game is filled with a lot of hard solo mage tower type content. the feeling of getting drops/milestone levels on your acc is top tier. game has hard endgame raids that you can even solo if you want. has content for about all types of players from end game pvm to casual skilling bosses to even more casual content. has a massive collection log scene for achievement hunter type players. the game pretty much never has massive power creep things you got yesterday and things you are trying to achieve tomorrow don't get thrown away by the newest update. you can quit the game with a goal in mind come back 3 years later and its still a relevant thing to get for your account.
IMO the ironman gamemode makes the game feel 10x better once you are more knowledgable about the game. we get weekly updates we get to vote on 90% of things added into the game. we get no P2W items/cosmetics. OSRS is amazing and its very sad that people i know would love the game get turned away by the game not looking like the newest UR5 tec demo
Ya see I hear that but the game is fuck ugly and the gameplay is boring (to me) lol. Can’t get into it. The only friend I have who likes it likes it because he can automate his skill leveling while he works his job from home.
@WonOneWun that's an extremely shallow view. I think elden ring looks like shit but I played it and enjoyed it.
@@kaikash how does elden ring look like shit that is a wild take
@aevumlux3323 texture resolutions are actually quite low in ER, and if you're not a fan of general fantasy aesthetics some of the grittiness of the setting can come off as unfinished or abrasive
"Runescape sucks because of graphics."
*says classic wow is the best mmo*
You need to rewatch this video when your not angry at god knows what, bad takes.
FFXIV and GW2 have all the elements of my ideal MMO between the two of them.
And hopefully in a few years GW3 will continue and maybe up their game.
which of em has the ideal pvp? im gonna try that game
@@BenColletti gw2 has one of the best pvp....WvW or Spvp. WvW is like three servers fighting each other. Spvp is like 5vs5 team comp pvp.
@@BenColletti gw2 hands down.. for competitive arena pvp I think WoW is still king, however large scale organized pvp in an open map, or roaming around capturing objectives and dueling people, wvw (world versus world) is one of a kind.. gw2 combat system is more dynamic. Elders scrolls also has a similar mode
@@BenColletti GW2's PvP is unfortunately being run by a few players and their bots to get more rewards in the automated tourneys , but in general pvp (casual or ranked) is decently fun ngl. I can't speak for FFXIV cause i dont play it.
Wvw is another mode where 3 servers fight each other , and it the matchups change weekly if i recall corectly , which is a fun mode with huge fights.
16:00 someone really needs to tell Asmon that people don't play revived *successful* games for the graphics... like holy shit he was pretty dense during most of this video tbh.
I watch most stuff on newpipe, but I had to come on this damned platform just to comment and check if it was just me - at least im glad to find us sorta united.
New players aren’t flocking to these old games
@CukMcGee speak for yourself, I started playing osrs 5 years ago and I'm gen z. I played rs2 when I was a little kid, but never touched mmos
I'm radiant in valo, used to be gm in OW (SUPPORT PLAYER SO ITS LESS IMPRESSIVE), and used to regularly play semi-competitive in multiple other games
osrs is just a fun game man. it's a change of pace from the constant action of shooters and mobas that I usually play. long term goal oriented gameplay is appealing once people stop being children and their frontal lobe develops (not that mine is done cooking)
I don't think I've ever disagreed with Asmongold more than I did in this video
So you play ff14 is that it?
@@DrathanKhan nope
Its a damn shame asmon will never give Runescape a chance because of the graphics, despite it being one of the best MMOs. His sponsered stream of the leagues mode what NOT at all representative of the main gameplay experience.
"The reason why the game exists is because you've had nostalgia for it for 25-30 years"
As an OSRS player, I think you're partially right with that. Nostalgia is what brought the players to the game for the first few years. But as it changed with update after update, that wasn't the case anymore.
If you look into the actual community, you will find a plethora of players complaining with every update, saying that Jagex needs to release an Old OLD School Runescape. Those are the players still there for nostalgia, and they're miserable.
The players like me that are sticking around are doing so cause of a dev team that actually gives a shit about their game and player base. Something rare in this day and age. Hell, the most beloved dev responds to basically EVERYONE that pings him on Twitter.
The only thing that the nostalgia realistically affects is the graphics. The game fits perfectly to a very specific niche of players, and that's why the demand on not changing the fundamentals of the game are there. Not because of nostalgia for it, but because that's genuinely what the players enjoy.
God Ash ❤
☝
i dont think the people who want old old school runescape would realize just how fast it would die. like for example there was a period of time where there was basically nothing new and for 2 years game received only minor updates and end game was gwd with some pieces from barrows. game had average play count of 40k at launch on mar 2013 and october 2013 it had 10k average... and stayed at under 20k until they started pushing updates in 2015. thx misplaceditems for this info, i would link it but yt would dleete the comment.
OSRS is timeless. I think in 100 years if you play the game with a kid a lot of them are going to love it. People only say things like this to sound smart, would anyone say that about super mario 64 or ocarina of time? It's the same concept. Modern graphics are a very small part of what makes a game great.
@@nevermind5657 I think if OSRS never existed and you released it today without the GE and the original 2004 version it would be wildly successful. I think it's the reverse of nostalgia with RuneScape, i think it has been played by so many people that it's just the same simplistic gameplay and world from 20 years ago. I do think there are tons of new players and younger people constantly playing the game which is great.
I don't think people are purely living off nostalgia though, there could be a plethora of reasons why the player count started increasing the last 10 years. Access to mobile devices is a huge one that could easily be solely responsible.
Man this whole thing was an hour of bad takes coming in from every angle
The next big MMO will have NPC dialogue made with prompt engineering and LLM/Voice Generator. The sub should be around 40$ or more, mark my words
George lucas made Star wars, later it was made episode 4 there was no plan for episode 1 at the beginning loool.
I just can't take him seriously when he says 16:10 the graphics are fucking garbage...and he plays WoW.
The graphics are fucking garbage in WoW too! What are you talking about?
As someone who's grown up with runescape (and currently afk'ing osrs while watching yt), I've always seen WoW as the 'better' game.
@@Elit3Blaze how high are you lol. i have raided CE pushed mid high ish keys. ain't no shot you play osrs and think wow is the "better" game. bro the sense of progression in osrs is literally unmatched. you can have a goal in the game stop playing for 3 years come back and the thing you where trying to do is still relevant and good thing to achieve its legit Insane how good this game is
Just because you're playing something, doesn't mean you can't say that the graphic is garbage.
Minecraft doesn't have outstanding graphics, it's quite garbage if you think about it, and yet I like it.
Edit. OK, that might be a stretch a bit if I think about it.
Better example will be Flyff. For today's standards I wouldn't say it has good graphics. Mid at best. Still I go back to some private servers once in a while.
Both area true. He can say that graphics are garbage in a game, end of observation, then move on to play a game also with bad graphics. He didn't say : "I quit x game because it had bad graphics" just to then play a game with bad graphics. There is no logic fail here. It's viewers trying to find issues in his thinking when these two things don't collide with each other.
And he called wow shit just like whatever game you are salty about right now lol
There's like 20 commenters all submitting copy pastes of "but wow is shit too"..... That's his point
All mmos right now are dog shit, when one that isn't releases normal people will play mmos. Akin to how wow grabbed the average joe back in the day
We'd have plenty of good MMOs if the founding argument for creating an MMO wasn't "how will this make us as much money as possible while doing the least possible work?".
There's a lot of love behind these games, a lot of passion and excitement - for the money previous MMOs have farmed.
And the reason they want to "make as much money as possible" is that it's what the shareholders demand.
Which ends up creating another problem : subscriptions can totally cover the costs of maintaining an MMO, what they can't keep up with is the perpetual revenue growth that the shareholders demand.
In a way, Asmon is right : the only way to get a new good MMO is that new technologies allow ambitious indie studios like Larian to make an MMO without any outside investors.
At some point, MMO's began to feel more like a job instead of entertainment.
Love and passion don't matter when no one new is interested in your genre and everyone old already has a favorite.
*_Ashes_* ... ... ...
... ... ... *_of_* ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... *_Creation_* ... ... ...
Money hungry MMO development and publishment, is as expected as Hasan malding on stream.
"I know you are a billionaire, have infinite social status, are the nicest most supportive person on the planet, and literally brought about world peace. But you're 5'11" instead of 6'1" so you're not a great guy, just an average dude." - Basically Asmon's opinion in this video.
The top MMOs didn’t happen by luck or chance, it took the blood, sweat and tears from the devs and listen to their playerbase. I simply think we won’t get another good MMO because shareholders want to maximise the P2W whale also the market is different with it shifting to handheld devices.
"Shared world where people can cooperate or not" sounds like osrs tbh
Nah dog that's a shit game because "gRaPhIcS" and apparently is only doing good because no one can "Let Go"
Yeah he literally described OSRS to a T lmao then just said but graphics bad.. blows my mind the cognitive dissonance sometimes.
He’s not exactly wrong though.
I’ve been fine with the graphics level for a while now and don’t see much benefit in better graphics but rune scape is very early graphics.
I think game developers have been stripping systems and complexity to appeal to a more mainstream audience.
I don’t know how right they are though.
I just see the success of dark souls and know game developers are dumb sometimes.
This includes Asmon wanting all these quality of life features and thinks they’re mandatory.
Elden Ring has a harsh death punishment. Way higher than standard and it is still popular.
Guildwars was NOT a bad game. It was AMAZING. Infact the skill system in it was the best skill system out of any old or current game BY FAR
1 or 2?
@@jeremysanchez9188 He means 1
Still active players on 1
Playing gw1 as I watch this... doing a time for heroes with my heros XD
Also while his argument about it now having jump is true, he has no idea for the reason - GW1 was mostly a PvP focused game and it had bodyblocking. During GvG you would block the enemy flag carrier and nuke him. It was a design choice for strategic purpouses.
Wizard101 is still goated. This visual progression is unmatched right now. The most pay to win stuff in wizard101 is probably pet training, which is not at all necessary for end game progression. You can permanently unlock areas too idk
33:00 Asmon talks about dissonance while not being self-aware enough to realize his own cognitive-dissonance. Hilarious.
Game development has become an event horizon of project creep and ballooning budgets in modern times. The mmo was, by its nature, an overly-ambitious second life/job simulator that simulated a precursor to social media. The astronomical AAAA game dev costs, change in consumer interests, and explosion of social media have all culminated in the decline of the MMO-genre.
Nah I think what killed MMOS is companies just really gave up. We have been waiting, like asmond said.
@@whenimmanicimgodly4228 No. he's right. MMOs were a product of their time and offered something that no other genre at the time did. Nowadays, there's dozens of new genres, games catering to specific needs and desires, more games than ever, and dozens of social media apps that fill the roles MMOs used to.
Not to mention our own development as people. Our first MMO( or even first few) were special because we were new to the genre, or even gaming as a whole and every moment was new, unique, and outstanding.
A 6 out of 10 will feel like a 10 out of 10, as long as you haven't experienced anything above it, since you're using an incomplete scale.
As you gain more experience, you will start to realize, it really was just a 6 out of 10. BUT it was YOUR FIRST 6 out of 10. It's what makes it special and nobody can take it away from you.
Since then, however, we've played hundreds if not thousands of games, and spend countless hours improving, learning, developing. It's impossible for any game to re-capture that wonder we had because we already know too much. Figuring out 2+2 the very first time, or speaking a word for the first time is a unique moment. Doing it 2000 times after is just routine.
Honestly I think a lot of it comes from greed as well. A lot of MMOs are more concerned with having some sort of front of an item shop instead of focusing solely on making a good game
@@whenimmanicimgodly4228no we are the ones that approve and cultivate what's acceptable in games or not..the state of MMOs is equal on development and Player side.
Games when Diablo 4, and Wow
In their worst states still keep consistently high thousands of active, and spending players
It allows companies to lower their quality and standards because we assume product will get better, and latch onto that hope.
They farm Hope
@@vtxshiva I probably played at least 8 MMOs before WOW released, and I thought most of them sucked ass. It wasn't like today, back then new MMOs were constantly being released. WOW hardly even brought any new ideas to the table, it was just a much more polished and technically impressive version of ideas that already existed.
And that is the problem, after WOW came out and took the MMO space by storm, companies more or less just gave up on trying to compete with it. Maybe it was your first MMO or something and it felt fresh to you. But for many of us at the time MMOs were already a familiar experience. The reason we liked Vanilla WOW so much is simply because it offered a better version of an experience we had already come to know and love.
And the reason we have mostly given up on MMOs, is because people stopped trying to make a better version of that experience.
Asmon: FFXIV graphics are garbage but 2004 WoW is the closest thing to a perfect MMO.
the amount of bias and WoW fanboying is crazy, both can be fun just have some goddamn consistency in your view of a game.
And no one has mentioned FFXIV is getting a huge graphics overhaul in a month. The benchmark looks insane.
@@margitthedissaprovingomen3921 Besides, FF11 was a superior game to both of them in many ways, it just couldn't keep up with its fan base being burdened with adulthood (time constraints).
In terms of gameplay? Yes, kinda.
Depends on the video WoW is shit FFXIV is great now it changes ,i was waiting for someone to say something
I feel like the graphics matter for me more in FFXIV because its more of a fashion anime rp game but that's entirely just me most likely.
Asmon, I think you miss the point of Hardcore Ironman mode in OSRS. You don't lose your account or gear or anything when you die. Only your 'hardcore' status. You turn into a normal ironman after dying. This 'hardcore' mode just sets the stage for amazing series for content creators which increases the interest to consume content for the game. It doesn't matter that the majority of the audience isn't playing a 'hardcore', they watch and they get more invested into the game cuz it's entertaining.
Without getting too wordy in the CZcams comments section; I think that AI is going to be at least one of the next big things that really moves the MMORPG genre forward.
Sounds like asmond is describing guild wars 1, you could interact with other players in towns but the second you left the town you got your own private copy of the map. And unless you brought party members with you you didn't see other players in the world
Yeah but then you had to deal with a party of npc’s.
The game could get tough. Actual players were a huge benefit.
You can’t “solo” like in those anime.
GW2 was way more doable solo except for the dungeons.
Always baffles me that no MMO list ever includes Final Fantasy XI, released in 2002 and was HUGE with over 1.5million players in Japan alone. Only MMO that wasn't region bound or even bound to PC / PS / XBox, you could play with anyone everywhere anytime.
If ff11 was remade with current hardware it would be the biggest mmo and has alot more appeal than ff14.
You're baffled by an Eastern game from 2002, not being well known in the West. You're watching Western media, no shit its not going to be included very often. We just don't know about that shit
@@dalytennis ffxi was the first cross platform MMO being on PC PS2 and xbox360. It was very popular around the world not just in Japan.
Runescape and ultima online never had strict region locks either but yeah FFXI is often overlooked
@@pipz420 according to sources online, ffxi sould 340,000 copies in the US from release to 2006. 4 years, less than 100k per year. It ranked as the US’s 51st most sold game in 2006. I would say very popular is a GROSS exaggeration
Can y'all stop saying MMO's? Y'all want an MMORPG, you keep confusing companies that's why we're on call of duty 22. Y'all got plenty of MMO's, among us, fall guys, Helldiver's; so you gotta start using the correct words caus for the last 8 years I've seen the same thing 'mmo..' 'mmo...' 'mmo...' did y'all for once think you're asking for the wrong thing?
Guild Wars 2. Enough said.
Really these guys have done an awesome job. More ppl might play wow, but everything about gw2 is better.
Blizzard is taking your money. Nothing less. Theyre taking advantage of you.
GW2, with the grind you can pay for all dlc and expansion.
Agreed. There's a few other MMOs that I consider better than WoW.
@@Timithos I dont understand what people do in WoW outside of raiding, the whole rest of the game seems so shallow.
The lack of insight Asmon has in regards to other mmos is astounsing.
i still think WoW player numbers are fake.
I agree. I've been playing the last few weeks ( for the first time in about 4 years) and if you /who in any zone, there's usually no one.
To be fair it's entirely plausible that there's a great many people who are subscribed but don't actually play. Not to mention if people are spending most of their time in instances they're not in cities.
It's like planet fitness gym memberships. Lot of subscribers that haven't been in months.
My guess is that's total accounts not active players
Never met a single person that actually played it.... its the same group of lifers and a shit ton of bots supplying them. It's why all these MMOs don't fix the bot problem. They get to show investors and advertisers all these "active" daily users that will see their ad or what not.
Also peoples attention span in the younger generation is so terribly low they get bored of games quickly after purchase.
For years Asmongold refused to play any game except for WoW. Now all the sudden he says oh there are no gamers that are loyal to an MMO, if a good one comes out they will leave! Stfu boomer.
Its true. Every new mmo release has lots of players on launch. That means people are waiting for an mmo. They leave once they realize the game is not good.
Are there "loyal" people only play 1 mmo? Yeah. But they are the minority. And it's a fact.
Asmon played lots of new mmos.
@@DrathanKhan Yes in the last 2 years he has been playing lots of mmos. Prior to that if you look at any circumstance where he was asked to try other games outside of Wow he said absolutely not. WoW was his go to mmo for 15 years. Many gamers over 30 years old stick to 1 game. In fact in almost any MMO I've ever played most of the people I've met only played that one game. I was also an avid Runescape player for 15 years and then went to wow, eso, and final fantasy. This is usually the case elsewhere as well.
@@KillingDemons I mean he played BDO prior to that. I don't know what else he played I started to watch him in 2019.
Majority of gamers do not stick with 1 game. You can see this from the concurrent players. MOST leave, least stick. Nobody should care or cater to their needs.
As I said that people exist. But they are not significant. Most people do leave their games when there is a new good one regardless of the genre. How did mobas became popular? Did they all come from warcraft dota mode? No. How did battle royale became popular? Did they all come from arma 2 battleroyale mode? No. Do people still stick with arma mode or dota 1? Maybe. But are they significant? No. When there is a good game, people come. End of the story.
OP fundamentally misunderstands the role of "Kill x boars".
You do those quests because the gameplay is fun. Games that can't sustain a quest like that probably don't have gameplay that's worth engaging in. You are willing to do Kill x boars quests in wow because you like the experience of playing wow so much, getting a little xp and gold bonus for the gameplay is a bonus. The main reason imo that so many of these other games have failed is because, having tried many of them myself, the gameplay just fucking sucks. Unresponsive, unpredictable combat with weird UI, skill or interaction systems that just feel awful to use. Kill x boars quests are perfectly fine for leveling, but don't deliver good narrative content at higher levels. You cannot be 'a random nobody' like you are in WoW (which people generally cherish?) without kill x boars, because if you have narrative storyline then your character becomes the focus.
He argues all the time that graphics don't matter, smh
I'd argue that MMOs are no longer innovative, because most GAMES aren't really innovative. When we were all new gamers in the 2000s, we didn't really understand engine limitations, drop rates, or have META loadouts being considered standard.
We were all just learning how games and their design philosophies worked. Every single mission or location had infinite possibilities in our mind, and that drive to discover kept so many of us enthralled.
With the age of internet taking over, its hard to "discover" as much as before, and games have now shifted towards dripfed dopamine hamster wheels. Battle passes, daily challenges, xp bonuses... its a new era now, and we're probably just enjoying our generations version of an arcade before it shuts down for good.
Fuckin love J1mmy
What if instead of using all that additional hardware to render more dense graphics, they used it to improve the range of procedural generation? procedural generation sucks right now because it feels like mad libs, but what if the engine doing that was able to react so specifically to your actions that a procedurally generated quest line feels like a sandbox
Indie MMO. Somehow. 🥺
I completely disagree, the attempt for every game to be innovation is what's KILLING the games especially mmos. I wish they'd stop trying to innovate for once and just master a genre we already have.
I'm a girl and fertile.
@jamescheddar4896 I genuinely hate procedural generation not because of how it is "right now" but the concept in itself makes games less enjoyable and a pain in the ass. I also don't think a procedurally generated MMO would work out well AT ALL
Graphics is definitely important, it's important to lure players to try the game.
if you didnt play wow back in the day you were missing out then
if you dont play OSRS today you're missing out now
One thing he doesn't get, is the people still keeping old games alive, the customers a new MMO wants, a lot of them are keeping those old games alive while they wait for something new that they can love just as much.
I think he gets that, his point is that the new thing those people are waiting might not be coming.
yes but they will keep waiting forever because what they love so much is not gonna come
I still play Return of Reckoning. And he STILL hasn't played GW2
Yeah, you're right. All it takes is 1 new MMO to come out that ticks a lot of boxes for a player and they might hop over and give it a chance.
For me, I'd love another "cute"/anime-like MMO (e.g. Maplestory 1/2) - MS2 sucked unfortunately but I stuck with it for a long time wanting to love it because it filled that tickbox for me. All it would take is one actually-good one in that style and I'd jump ship.
@@BButcher-hg4nr There is no point ATM. GW3 is in works so any effort playing GW2 feels like a waste. I played GW2 a little and left to do other things but I meant to return one day... looks like GW3 killed my intentions. I learned to not buy expansions in advance
Hey Guild Wars was awesome. You take it back! :(
22:11 for context, it was James Cameron who wanted to make the movie 'Avatar' in the late 90s but couldn't as the technology that time didn't allow it. So he worked on building the technology and one of the most groundbreaking things he produced was this facial capture technology, a first on its kind that caught 100% performance.
The funniest thing about this video is that having common sense has become so rare that Asmon has to present the most obvious thing imaginable as an opinion "pay 2 win MMO cannot be successful in my opinion" it almost feels like pay 2 win defeats the entire purpose of playing but I could be wrong tho
Gotta love Asmon's "trust me bro" logic when it comes to dunking on the likes of FFXIV and Runescape. No, I don't want people here to tell me what they THINK Asmon is talking about, I am just pointing out he makes this bold nd definitive claims that "these games just straight up do not have what they need to be good games" and then can only say "graphics" knowing WoW's graphics are shit, and a visual thing like "graphics" don't make a game good. Weak, and flimsy reasoning. His go-to with BG3 is inane. The graphics are decent, but I can find at least 3 games that came out around the same time/year that had way better.
It's so bizarre that Asmon's hill to die on here is graphics. Graphics do not sell a game for many players. Is it a factor? Sure, 100% it can be a part of the equation. However, Asmon says graphics are the secret sauce that makes a game fantastic. Tell this to the indy development scene.
the best part about his bg3 comparisons is that bg 3 is not an mmo lol
For someone who always preaches that if the game is good the graphics dont matter....
You sure love shitting on 2013 FF14 graphics every chance you get lmao.
Still looks better than WoW lol
This. 100000000%
bro asmongold make phone games
🤣
Yeah, a lot of L takes in this video from Asmon. Contradicts himself left and right about what makes a good game.
I hope people shit on Asmons new game the way he shits on everyone else. I wonder if he stick with the usual “the customer is right/it’s the devs job to make a good game” mantra, or will he just say that everyone is wrong
uh oh ff14 fanboy is mad!!
I am 27, league has massive community of players like me who need a good retirement home in world of Runterra. Riot Games needs to make us an MMO already, something not as fast as league, less stressful than ranked. We are getting old eh
9:43 "The koreans are going back to MapleStory"
Ouch, as a former Maplestory player, how do you fuck up that badly?