Should Wales be Independent? An honest conversation
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- čas přidán 11. 12. 2023
- Should Wales form an independent State and break from the United Kingdom? What kind of politics is needed to govern a state and what kind of politics do we have?. Wales has selected 1 party for the last 100 years - and its nationalist party is a similar ideology, meaning Wales' lacks the political diversity of open variation of opinion found in independent, liberal and democratic nations. What does this mean for Wales and why have the Welsh shown such disinterest in trying new things, voting in only 1 party - Labour - in the last 100 years whilst creating a new party for independence with the same beliefs?
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That was very reasonable. I approve this message!
Diolch yn fawr.
As a romanian I support independent Wales, Ireland and Scotland and I support that they speak their own language. I like to see diverse nations with different languages and cultures.
I love languages too.
@@BenLlywelyn Unfortunately in this world are still so many different ethnicities that still could not have their own independent nation.
I want us to be in charge of our own immigration and not Westminster, I dont us to depend on Westminster for our budget.
I think tax is a responsibility we need more of in our own hands in Wales.
90% of Welsh local govt is paid for by Whitehall. I have no idea why dopey people in Wales cannot understand why this is important. I should also add that Wales has no functioning system of local govt. Why are we talking about independence when we can't do the basics of local govt without massive handouts from our 'oppressors'?
Very good video! Fantastic. Thanks for that!
Hmm very unique take on the subject. Amazing video!
Appreciated. Diolch / Thanks.
Hmm very fresh take, great vid.
would be cool to see a full video looking at the origins of labour / socialism in Wales
Diolch (thank you). That origin is a story which I hope to get to at some point.
As a Northern Italian I hope that the Celtic countries can gain their independence again and perhaps form some sort of Celtic Union where countries help and support each other, some sort of Union within the European Union and perhaps revive Celtic languages IF THEY WANT 🇮🇹❤️🏴🇮🇪🇮🇲🏴
I'll do anything for that Italian cheese with pistachios in it. 🇮🇹🧀
Ideally Liverpool should secede from England and become its capital 😉
@@BenLlywelyn I'm from Trentino and the most famous cheeses we have here are the "puzzone di Moena" and the "Trentin Grana" and the "Fontina", here we only have stinky cheeses to melt on polenta with rabbit😅 but no cheeses with pistachios😕. For those you have to look more towards southern Italy especially in Sicily where pistachio is a typical product there
Good to know we have supporters, Tapadh leat :)
what a silly idea that is
As an american I agree with Wales to become independent from England and besides what does the King Charles have done for your country? Let me guess.... nothing.
King Charles has done quite a bit over his lifetime, actually. From charities, to Welsh Language to brand recognition. It is all in how you slant the angle and look at it.
One thing is certain wether you are for or against independence: We don't need foreigners, especially americans who have a tenuous grasp on reality at the best of times, interfering and telling us what to do and not to do. That goes for both of you.
Well...he did got cancer! Does that count?
Im a English man with Scottish, Welsh and Irish ancestors. We are one people, our politicians do not define us.
I'm glad you cherish your ancestors. I have German and Scottish ancestors - it does not make them one people. Wales is a nation, which means England is a nation.
@@BenLlywelynwe are two neighbouring nations sharing one island's history.
We not one people stop with your propaganda
@@BenLlywelynI desire you to get independence from Belarusians, our language and culture were repressing during several centuries and that didn’t stop it continues, I would every nation to have its own state which could protect them, because a larger state doesn’t cares about the minorities, it would prefer they didn’t exist
Tell that to the citizens of the Republic of Ireland.
Great video,
I’ve always wandered what are the statistics in terms of people moving in and out of wales. From within the UK and elsewhere. I feel it might have an effect on whether the independence movement will gain steam or fizzle out. Having said that it independence should be for everyone who lives in wales so perhaps not. Might be an interesting video 🤔
Glad you liked it. Maybe we can talk sometime about videos.
Good Ben. Interesting angle. I agree
Thanks for the video, it was really interesting.
Much of what you say seems to rest on the idea that a country needs conservative and liberal politics in order to function, but this point isn't really backed up in the video. I'd like to see a video that explains why you believe this is the case.
It's more of a case that, we've had 100 years of one way - we cannot grow any further in this direction. As for a video on this, the former Communist Block are heavily Liberal, Liberal Conservative or Nationalist Conservative because they have seen that utopian fantasy simply does not work, maybe that?
@@BenLlywelyn Thanks for the reply
I would agree that Wales can't really go much further in its current direction, but I don't think the reactionary politics of conservatism is the solution. Conservatism would cause a backslide of the socio-economic progress that Wales has made as a society until the social democrats return to power, and the cycle repeats.
I would also agree that the Soviet bloc lead to liberalism in the best case and conservative nationalism in the worst. I'd say this was because they kept political and economic power centralised in the hands of a vanguard and then a state where decision making was top-down. Instead, they ought to have decentralised executive power to participatory democraties at the municipal level where decision making is bottom-up as well as transitioning to a cooperative economy which is then carefully decommodified over time. In other words, the Soviet goal of building a better society was inconsistent with their means of getting there, and so of course they failed.
How the system works in UK? Do Wales and Scotland receive funds from England? Isn't economically advantageous for Wales to be part of UK?
Wales and Scotland pay taxes which are taken then redistributed often to a disadvantageous end.
@@BenLlywelyn you could say exactly the same of England.
Greetings. How do you do. Thank you very much for your response. I still propose dialogue among people at all levels even as groups, political parties even organisations as frequently as we can faithfully. By the way, I appreciate all the traditional histories of Welsh, Scottish, Cornish, Manx and English traditional aspects as part of integral British heritage. Thank you very much once again. Diolch.
It's not bigoted to no want to be Western England.10 simple words.
I didn''t say anything about being West England.
@@BenLlywelyn I know. It's just my take.
Wales the same size as Slovenia and will be the first country with living main celtic language, i think it's better for preserving flows of immigrants (only really brave and interested migrants will stay in country with such difficult language, so it's kinda like sieve
I would like to see those fluent in Welsh given automatic right to live in Wales from abroad.
@@BenLlywelyn Welsh diaspore in Argentina for ex. :D
You have a great radio voice. If you had your own radio station (such a different experience from a podcast), just part-time, where you'd speak about different topics of interest to you, sprinkled with your type of music, I'd tune in!
Sounds like a nice job.
18:10 I suppose the point was that they were saying that all the other parties are branch offices of London parties, we are based in Wales and therefore call ourselves Plaid Cymru.
In the 1920s the name Plaid Cymru made perfect sense, absolutely. From the view of being headquarted in Wales and being the only one of such to at that time (aside from many outgoing Liberals) to of backed a Welsh Devolution settlement.
3:00 I would think the constellation of parties would change if independence for Wales happened. It would surely no longer be viable to have a dominant party which is a branch office of a party in England.
It is a reasonable view that parties would change within a State.
More common law powers to the people I say. Bureaucracy should never have the license to harass or run amok over citizens' liberty, happiness. The common people ought to judge the rightness and equity of laws derived only to serve the State.
Liberty is a crucial.
I feel that the time independence movements is drawing to a close. External threats like Russia and China, job displacement from AI and increasing social unrest from mass immigration will dominate all politics for the next 50 years.
Social unrest could easily accelerate nationalist movements. This happened in Iberia during the 1920s.
I agree with your point that it is problematic to have one party gaining majorities in every election for 100 years. In other countries parties lose elections as they make mistakes or grow out of touch. The problem in Wales with Labour was that they may have won all the elections, but they were not always in power. The process of discontentment and people turning to alternatives thus never happened. In an independent Wales this would happen pretty quickly and then maybe the result might be a greater political diversity of competing ideologies.
That discontent is slowly happening - but it is so drawn out who knows where it will lead.
I would say yes to independence and fully understand that this brings with it significant challenges. What i don't like about the current situation is that the government in Westminster is using wales to highlight the failures of a labour government whilst the labour government in Wales blames Westminster for the lack of funding given to wales. Let us have our independence then we'll only have ourselves to blame .
Yes, there are challenges. Whichever path we freely choose as a people, I hope Wales begins with liberal responsibility rather than illiberal grievances.
Greetings. How do you do. I appreciate the cultural identity sentimentality. However, as an essential stakeholder to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, I propose that we cannot afford to even consider any form of secession at all. By the way, I don't live in the UK currently. I propose essential dialogue among all the regional countries of Wales, Cornwall, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland honestly and sincerely. Thank you very much. Dioch.
Diolch. It is the choice of Welsh or English or Scots in their own nations, I would say. But in any case, politics needs to grow past endless Red or Blue somehow.
There's a great Welsh band I know of that seems to be on their own quest for that spirit you talk of. The song *Pagan Spirit* (... but a Christian heart ... ) even has the word spirit in it. Their name is *Albion* and they make what I suppose could be called folk metal. Welsh folk metal. czcams.com/video/5V5kXfmOWrw/video.html
They have more songs than that of course. Might be worth trying some others even if this one is not your cup of tea.
Their singer, whose CZcams channel is under the name *Joe Parrish* , but whose name, according to Jethro Tull, is Joe Parrish James, has posted one of the best covers ever of a song of all men, called Dirty Boy here. If you like Stravinsky, you might even enjoy his cover of Rite of Spring, all on guitars. (He's also a guitarist, and you'll see him play the flute, too, if you watch the Albion video.)
I have a few Welsh ancestors. Two I know of, anyway. There's an Amy Bainbridge, "from Wales", who could apparently sing beautifully - in some Methodist chapel, I'd guess - and at that line the trail runs dead, and then a cousin of mine found that our Settler ancestor from Bristol's wife's family originally came from Wales. Turns out the name means "The Stranger/ Foreigner" apparently, so might not fit the strictest definition of "Welsh", but they were from right on or just over the border, so somewhere back where the trail fades out there will be some Welsh ancestors.
It's just a nice thought, that's all. Obviously doesn't signify, culturally. Nor does Lincolnshire (the Outmarsh) , nor Yorkshire, nor Taunton, nor Devon. All too far upriver. But it's a nice thought all the same. Not as nice as the thoughts you'd have listening to Albion if you don't hate anything "metal", though. (It's not "brutal" metal. Just has virtuouso solos and some crunchy bits.)
The Settler ancestor was the last person to be killed by lions in the Orange Free State. This happened while he was busy killing the last lions in the Orange Free State. We have more stories of him. A bit of a strange man. Thank goodness for that.
Great video an interesting take on it. My Thought on independence for Wales is an economic one. Wales had industry, a lot of it. Welsh coal fueled the world, it had a lot going for it but now what does it have? A love-hate relationship with Torisum a few large businesses struggling to justify staying open and a few smaller industries dotted around the country taking advantage of the cheap rents and land values. Currently, it seems the Welsh government is more interested in destroying the countryside with eco projects than money-making ones. Wales gets more tax money back from the central government than it pays in and it struggles as it is.
Having a pro-entrepreneurial spirit is the gateway to resolving many of Cymru's problems. Thank you.
Is it controversial to say that I would support an independent Wales, in order to begin to explore what an independent England might look like? Perhaps it would have some of the same problems that you describe for an independent Wales, but I really haven’t thought that through forEngland (which is an additional problem).
I am kind of assuming that in a world where an independent Wales existed, that Scotland would have become independent at some point as well. It would be kind of ironic if it had not.
However, in the current circumstances I am hesitant to fully support either, because it sounds like a one-way door into the unknown, where I would be bringing millions of people along for the ride, who didn’t sign up for the experiment. And perhaps I should stay out of the discussion because I’m not a UK citizen anyway.
An English State would go through an identity crisis in my opinion, having to understand what British is as separate to Englishness.
@@BenLlywelynand they would have to deal with Cornish and Northumbrians separatists lol
I agree. I was born and grew up in Wales and thought that in the long term Wales would be better off independent. There were no major companies headquartered in Wales and it felt it was just a source of resources and cheap labour to companies based in London and overseas, who pulled out when cheaper resources became available. After finishing University, I followed Norman Tebbit's advice and moved to London where the jobs were, and then Australia, where the economy is more split between the states. From what I see the results of devolution have been disappointing and I can't see the point of leaving the UK to join the EU. I guess Wales would need a constitution like the US, but that would never happen because those currently in power would do everything they can to prevent it or rig it in their favour. The constitution would need to incentivise the growth of Welsh companies rather than rely on global corporations and UK benefits. IMHO it would take a long time and much pain to transition to independence. Having said that, it would be great if it started and I would consider moving back to help.
Good point on constitutions.
well that's a long bike ride
@@mawkernewek bikes weren't allowed on the M4 so I took a National Express bus:-)
We should be proud of our heritage and all things Welsh, and especially proud of the Welsh language. One thing we do not need is another Offa‘s Dyke.
Would the proposed ‘independent’ country, or state, be like the Isle of Man, Ireland, Scotland, the Swiss model, or something new and very Welsh?
Good question. We won't know beforehand I imagine.
I wonder how different history might be if Wales had never lost its original independence
A Welsh Kingdom existing during the Elizabethan era would have changed England in ways beyond what we can know.
What evidence is there of how actually widespread the laws of Hywel Dda were manifest. Did the North Walians ever recognise Hywel Dda as their overlord?
Yes. We have manuscripts. The bloodline after Hywel was split, 1 side of his house took the north, the other side the south. Wales was much more unified as one nation during this period than we are led to believe.
@@BenLlywelyn Are there any court proceedings records showing that the laws of Hywel dda were applied? If so, are there any from North Wales? Any from South East Wales? Are there are recordings of people resident in North Wales writing about Hywel Dda, specifically mentioning Hywel Dda? Are there any documents from those resident in England writing about Hywel Dda?
There were precious few maps to be had 1000 years ago and almost everyone was illiterate. What did a farmer in Denbigh or Abergwaun think about how far 'Wales' extended - farmers who probably were born, worked and died within a radius of 10 miles at best. THEIR Wales was a very, very small patch of land.
Courts did not function in the way they do now. What is crucial is that we know all of Wales followed these laws and poets across Cymru referred to themselves as a being of this nation.
@@BenLlywelyn
"What is crucial is that we know all of Wales followed these laws and poets across Cymru referred to themselves as a being of this nation.
> Again, what evidence is there? Have you any links referring to documents written by people resident in North Wales mentioning Hywel Dda during the lifetime of Hywel Dda?
How many poets Cymreig were there in the 10th century? Is there a list?
@@martinharries3047 "the laws of Hywel dda" are a bit of a misnomer really. The evidence that Hywel dda himself played a significant role is pretty sketchy - tradition has it that he codified the rules, but there's not much evidence beyond that. However, there is plenty of evidence that Wales had it's own, native system of law and courts, which applied a set of laws - those which are often referred to as the laws of Hywel dda in order to differentiate them from later laws - which certainly applied all over Wales.
I love your videos Ben. The follow on question from your video is WHY has Wales a one party dominance, why are we the anomaly amongst the democracies? The paradox here, I think, is that due to Westminster control and the cultural dominance of English Conservatism right across the UK, this pushes Wales towards using Labour as an insurance policy. Voters keep the those with the real power in check the world over: UK bi-lections, US mid terms etc. To counter one party dominance reigning down on Wales from a largely English controlled UK, paradoxically we're creating our own one party dominance here in Wales. However, there's a big distinction I'd argue between the two paths chosen by Wales and England retrospectively. In endorsing Labour in huge numbers in Wales, I would suggest that the people of Wales do this knowing full well that the full levers of the state aren't being given to Labour in Wales ....because we're not an independent state of course. If Wales were an independent state then a natural eco system of political traditions, meeting the needs of Wales's various challenges, would without doubt evolve. Greater accountability and more competitive races would have to occur in Welsh constituencies within an independent Wales; because the stakes would naturally be higher. I campaigned for devolution and believe it has brought good. However, exaggerating to make a point here, perhaps the collective Welsh view on devolution is that its merely 'playing house' compared with 'real' governments running states. Due to this, I don't see the current single party dominance in Wales as a reason to suggest Wales isn't ready for independence, quite the opposite. Voting for Labour, as an insurance policy against Conservative dominance of Westminster shows that the Welsh electorate have the natural desire to balance things out seen in other democracies ...once we've acknowledged the paradoxical mess Wales is in. Independence could be the medicine that Wales needs to be able to further develop the array of conversations, ideas, skills and political traditions.
Thank you.
Whilst I understand your view, the thing about insurance policies is you can change them once in a while to get a better bargain.
Don't know about Welsh independence but being a Cricket Fan I definitely support Wales to have their own National Cricket Team just like Scotland does. I understand the complexities that prevents it from happening. Still, Wales already has their own Football & Rugby team, while ECB (which has an invisible 'W' as its full form is 'England & Wales Cricket Board') doesn't even put the name Wales on the team they field in International matches. So I've always sympathised with the frustration of the Welsh Cricket Fans & their desire to be properly represented in Cricket.
I support creating a National Welsh cricket team.
@@BenLlywelyn Thanks for replying. I hope a Welsh National Cricket Team could soon exist in near future.
Also I just want to inform you that there's no language called "Mathrathi" which you mentioned in the video of languages spoken by Jewish people. That language is actually "Marathi/मराठी" which is the language of the State of Maharashtra/महाराष्ट्र. Other than that it was a very interesting video.
As a Belarusian I support independence of Kimria, Scotland and reunification of Ireland, in 1920s our country and people were divided into two and we know how it is, I would like all celtic countries to get independence and revive their languages
I wish for a democratic Belarussia.
Aber man here. Keep the UK UNITED!
There are certainly many opinions on the matter.
Keep your English propaganda to yourself
Cap doffer!
Here's an alternative take on it: perhaps the left wins consistently _because_ Wales is not independent. Both separatist movements and peoples under rule of others tend to be left-leaning, but once they get independence and the new system is in place, that one big unifying driving demand vanishes and then you start to see others taking priority, which may end up leading the people in a different direction.
Indeed so. Indeed so.
The public sector is funded by taxes on the private sector. The Welsh private sector could not support the current levels of spending of the Welsh government. So sure, Wales could go it alone, but public sector spending would have to plummet.
Also, Wales would need a navy to protect its fishing territory from unscrupulous English and Irish fishermen. Good luck with that!
I'm sure Ireland and England are adults enough to work alongside us rather than against us. The rest we can grow, with private enterprise 1st of course.
Wales trades most of its products with England in the UK.So for Wales it would still be dependent on England for trade or try to trade with the EU and all the problems this would make.Scotland suffers a similar problem.I think a lose union between the home nations is best for everyone.🏴🏴🏴
There are many roads we can take, certainly.
Without own military and economic independence you don't have independence. Anyway no country is really independent. But this is another story Look at commorre islands. One voted to be independent, othe renains a french colony. People from the free island emigrate to the colony because wages are bigger.
Apologies! I deleted my garbled 'rant' before reading your reply. I picked up the reply after I deleted. My reasons for backing an independent Wales are based on the abyssmal way Westminster, all parties, regard Wales and how unfairly Wales is, and always has been, so arrogantly treated. I don't see the next Labour Government doing Wales any better than the Torries. The focus is always going to be on England and England's prosperity.
England has not truly changed since the 17th century. It is suffocating in here
The South Wales Valleys would vote for a turd if it had a Labour rosette on it.
Times are changing.
As a English man who's father was Welsh and who's children are Welsh, I think the Union is best for all of us. It has been hugely successful throughout it's history. When i lived in Wales I found the Welsh government very reasonable and for the people. Now they seem to be more and more authoritarian. I also find the Scottish government a complete basket case. P.S. Dw i'n mwynhau dysgu cymraeg
Dal ati gyda'r Gymraeg.
Keep at it with the Welsh
Scotland seemd liks it is about to go through a major change, but I do not know what exactly.
Me personally i think the Union was bad for the Celtic languages and identity. Westminster tried to flush out the Welsh Scottish and Irish identities with the idea of Britishness. They did it with the Cumbrians and to lesser degree the Cornish with the idea of Englishness. Westminster doesn't do much in protecting our languages and identities.
@@-._A2._- Fair enough if you think that. But that doesn't change the negative actions of the Welsh government.
I never imagined Wales not being right wing enough would be cited as a reason against independence. I would regard that aspect of Wales as a good thing, personally.
Functioning, free, and demcratically liberal nations do not vote for 1 side of the spectrum all the time.
@@BenLlywelyn What if it's not one end of a spectrum, but simply the fairest way to run a society? I am certainly what you'd call left-of-centre, but not because I subscribe to a particular doctrine, party or "faith", but because I think "left wing" principles are more sustainable and sensible than "right wing" ones. We are a social species, after all, and we have to share the same planet.
Same old shampoo clichés! It must be the most tedious thing to have to listen to a lefty preach! I'm glad I still have the option not to do so.
@@ftumschkwe are also a selfish species. Every single country that has tried socialism has failed miserably. When socialism fails, the consequences for everybody are much worse than under any capitalist system. Socialism only works in theory.
I want Scotland, wales and all of west country (under the Dunmonia banner) to be independent.
Dunmonia! That is quite Arthurian.
Of course Wales should be independent, regardless of the political and financial situation. Wales should and must be independent for it to survive as an entity, without true independence Wales will never experience true democracy and the chance to fulfill its true potential 🏴
We will see how few people vote for any party this election. Something must change.
Absolutely the idea of the United Kingdom is over instead embrace Celtic unity
What does Britanny have in common with Scotland?
Labour is entrenched because of Westminster rule. It's a function of an impoverished, colonised nation.
The West is about to change.
Thoughts: When religion becomes a central tool for governance it loses all divine authenticity. A person of faith does not worship idols nor even idolizes priests. A true democratic system of governance would be separate to the Church and also freed of all political party memberships thus freeing decision bias from such tradition alignments and membership conformances. An individual running for office so as to represent his/her constituents should be means tested for minimal education and his/her adequate investments so as to prove his/her worth and ability to maintain his/her keep.
This is my thoughts because throughout human history so many wars and atrocities were carried out in the name of God… [And] even in today’s world the Orthodox priests of Muscovy bless their ‘machines of war’ with said Holy water. Therefore I conclude that I believe that Church be separate from State and all members of governance be as individuals. Innovation and advancements thieve outside the restrictions of conformance.
We agree church and state should be separate.
if the isle of man can do it so can wales.
With a banking sector economy. Nice.
in a roundabout way.
free enterprise and free trade.
not with the eu but with brics,
@@BenLlywelyn
🏴There is NO Conservative Independence Party therefore I will never vote for it as it stands.
Now the question is welsh Independence ECONOMICALLY possible? In 1900 the industrial coal age I think it may have been possible (bit like SNP with oil). But once again no Conservative independence business minds behind it. You need both Labour and Conservative independent parties to make Wales work.
Now suppose we found a magic mineral only found in Wales that would bring wealth to each individual would that change voting for Welsh Independence?
The obsession with leftwing politics in the Welsh Nationalist movement really does seem reactionary against 'whatever is in England' than a thought out policy of the Wales wanted. And I wish Wales could move past this an allow diversity of political ideas to flourish in our country - which deserves new ideas for our people.
@@BenLlywelyn they are brainwashed by the English to not thinking outside the box. Plus, they have a victim mindset.
It goes from generation to generation, and easy for them to blame the English rather than brake free
Building Welsh businesses is the best way to create a new mindset.
Wales voted Brexit 😂. That's right wing enough.
Certain people in Wales did. However, 84% of Welsh speakers and non-Welsh speakers who identify as "Welsh" (as opposed to "British" or "Welsh/British") voted Remain, making them, in the words of a study by Cardiff University, arguably "the most pro-European demographic in the UK".
Using the fact that Welsh independence parties only hold one ideology as a reason against independence is laughable especially when you hold Israel as a "stable example".
Israel is an ethno state who's leaders believe the total destruction/enslavement of another people is vital to their survival who's dominant ideology is so right wing it's fascist, all the parties are zionist. That is one ideology.
You forgot Japan DLP who have dominated in a similar way to Labour, are they left wing/utopoian? America's two parties both share the same pro business, capitalist ,big military ideologies... You are hiding behind ideology as a reason in Cymru because left wing thought or utopianism/oppressor politics to put more in your words is not an ideology you share. There is a big difference between the Soviet Union and Denmark I'm not sure you see this.
The reason Cymru doesn't have many political parties is because we only have 3 million population and most people are working class and the shadow of Britain/England's politics and propaganda looms large. Personally I think after independence the parties would splinter and reorganize themselves, the Tories couldn't exist as they are now, and probably even Labour and Plaid imo. You are right that size, wealth, population aren't an issue and gave good examples why.
Personally I believe Cymraeg's only serious chance of existing in 100-200 years is with Annibyniaeth.
Wait for the geopolitics of a Welsh State video then. Sometime this year.
@@BenLlywelyn I'll give it a watch.
you have to loosen the screw…. Your lost in the game.
I shall need context with that one.
I'm English, but my dad is full welsh. I don't think Wales as it is could make it alone. My dad, and even my Nain, who could barely be more Welsh, was completely against Welsh independence.
Why do you think the Welsh less able than Jamaicans or Luxembourgers?
@@BenLlywelyn Jamaicans dont rich.
You love Israel
Yes I do.
@@BenLlywelyn I can see