Aemond's Lost Eye Was The Start Of The Dance Of The Dragons
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- House of the Dragon has been building up towards the Dance of the Dragons for almost an entire season now. And, while war hasn't yet been declared, the mutilation and loss of Aemond's eye may have been the moment that the war really started.
Content Of This Video:
00:00 Squabbling Children, An Apt Metaphor For The Dance
02:24 Rhaenyra's Double Meaning
04:10 Viserys' Least Favorite Kids
07:50 Alicent's Inescapable Reality
09:59 Conclusion
11:03 Outro - Zábava
Its wild to me that people seem to think Rhaenyra is this progressive girlboss who'd never ever hurt her half-brothers and that the dance is all Alicent's fault when this episode perfectly illustrates how wrong that was. All it took was a mild threat against her person and suddenly Rhaenyra is demanding a child be tortured.
It IS alicent's fault. Or more like Otto's. You team green are fucking blind XD
Team black!!!
I agree… to an extent. I got the feeling that she didn’t want it to get to that point and that it was more of a “straw that broke the camel’s back” moment rather than the only thing that pushed her to it. Since the big time jump and the scene with Rae bringing her newborn to Alicent right after the birth, it was clear that Alicent has been antagonizing her and trying to push for her son’s position for a long time. And Rae was the last to extend an olive branch (albeit cornered into doing so lol)
I think both of them have been pushed over time to finally reaching this level of extreme behavior. But that’s why it’s so interesting to watch and argue both sides lol
@@Sam-xr8ne Team Green😂
“Mild threat”? I thought the old hand said that Rhae, her kids, and Hardin could be put to death if it became common knowledge that her kids were bastards. There’s nothing mild about that scenario whatsoever. This whole issue starts with the dads. King V and Otto. King V marrying alicent instead of Laena and Otto pushing Alicent onto V. We’d have no story without this conflict, but yeah, it starts with the dads.
When Viserys barked at Aemond to look at him while Aemond was sitting there with one eye, I laughed out loud. He really did not care at all about Aemond's maimed face.
I did too 😂 I had to pause a few times because it was all so ludacris I couldnt stop laughing! When Viserys was yelling and his empty arm sleeve was swinging around... OMFGGGG
totally true. Even if the actor make Visery loveable, this king is absolutely awful, as is the black team.
tbf he does sort of show some emotion at the beginning of the scene when the Maester tells him the eye is lost but yeah him immediately going into interrogation mode the moment the bastardy is put to question was hilariously awful preferential treatment on Viserys' part
Viserys was even worse in the books. The show watchers blame everyone and their moms about the dance - Rhaenyra, Alicent, Otto, Daemon etc, but its really clear as day that Viserys' incompetent rule was completely responsible. Not only was he a poor excuse of a ruler, but poor excuse of a father and husband. He taunted Aemond for not having a dragon, and when he lost an eye, trying to gain said dragon and earn his father approval, Viserys was far more concerned with he calling his grandchildren bastards than with his son's life and future. He didn't love his children with Alicent, at all, he really, really didn't care.
@@stass2933 Viserys was blinded by prophecy instead of focusing on the problems at hand
Otto told Alicent that when push comes to shove, her and her kids would be the ones getting shoved. She caught a glimpse of that when Viserys chose to throw her father under the bus for Rhaenyra. She saw it in 70 inch, full screen 4K after Aemond’s eye was taken out.
Who was going to kill the girls and both. He is hardly innocent.
This is what people don't get. They like Rhae and Daemon so much that they think she would never harm her little brothers.
@@kellharris2491 people for real don't get how selfish rhae is
@@kellharris2491 yup only she has already proved that she is willing to torture them while they were children when she still hasnt come to power imagine what she would be willing to do once she is in power. Is it so far fetched to think that she might have them killed to ensure that her bastard son inherits the throne.
@@kellharris2491 When an ASOIAF character isn't Ned Stark, I expect them to do unthinkable horrible things. Ned and Rhaenyra are no Ned Stark.
Fans going "sentence Alicent to death" "kill her" "touching Princess is treason”. So we just gonna forget that child who got his eye popped out like a champagne cork is Viserys' own son too?! He’s a Prince?! Viserys is gonna execute his wife for wanting justice for his own son?! Huh?? What kinda weak King does nothing while his own seed gets his eye poked out by a couple of bus-terds? He cared more about protecting Rhaenyra’s illegitimacy than his son. Ppl really acting like if some kids did that to your 10yr old in the sandbox ya'll just gonna be like "oh word? Kenny's the middle child. So no biggie.” A mother’s rage, while unhinged, is totally understandable. The king shoulda handed out a more reasonable punishment before it even got to eye for an eye. But he was gonna do nothing due to his gross favoritism for his daughter, which justifiably infuriated Alicent. The king is spineless. Daemon lovers have no right to criticize Alicent.
I think the difference is that Alicent in and of herself is not royal. She isn’t a joint monarch, she’s a Consort. Aemond, Jace, and Luke are all Princes, and Baela and Rhaena are both Princesses through Daemon. They actually said it in the episode, how do you protect Princes from Princes? Both sides have their own royal rank and are in direct descent from the monarch. It’s treason to attack either side.
Also, it can be argued that Rhaenyra’s line is the senior line that will inherit the throne, so it’s more treasonable to attack Jace and Luke than it is to attack Aemond.
Just because they are bastards doesn't mean they aren't his grandchildren. I mean from his perspective his grandchildren turned on each other and both sides had justification.
@@kellharris2491 That's true. I understand that Viserys would have a closer bond to his first wife's daughter & her family. But this love is precisely what made Viserys a bad king. Because he didn't realize how much resentment he was creating by his attempt to keep his daughter safe. A good king would've tried to be conciliatory to both sides, knowing he was in tenuous situation.
@@RiseeRee it would be more treason, if only he attacked them first and not the other way around
To be fair, Aemond snuck out and stole Vaegar the same night that Laena, who had just committed suicide using Vaegar’s flames, was laid to rest. Aemond came strutting back, bragging about conquering this dragon to children who had just lost their mother and now their mother’s dragon and Aemond, the little shit, showed zero sensitivity. When the strong boys came to Laena’s daughters’ defense, Aemond called them bastards, which is treason, and attacked the young girls. And I really cannot stress this enough, Viserys made it clear from day one that he would back his daughter and her heirs’ claims no matter what so Alicent stoking the flames of rumor, especially to her own children was monumentally stupid. Did she really think that endangering Raenyra and her children with rumors of illegitimacy would not also endanger her own children? And then to demand the eye of Jace, a child who only hurt the much older Aemond in self defense, and physically attack the heir to the iron throne with a knife? Really? If I were in her position, I’d spend more time teaching my kids not to be sociopaths and trying to work out an alliance with Rae that ensured both our families safety instead of stoking rumor, allowing my kids to indulge in sadism, and placing my trust in a kinslayer who gets off to feet. Raenyra is surely very flawed, but Alicent is downright hateful, bitter, irrational, and short-sighted. And her children take after this. Raenyra might die in the dance of dragons, but it’s her heir that brings peace to the realm and continues the line, whereas Alicent’s children do nothing but damage to themselves and the world around them. And honestly, Viserys made many mistakes during his reign but he’s the king and the king can name his heir in this world. He named his heir and the people around him continue to deny this and reap the punishment for it. He didn’t want to remarry. He named his daughter heir. The lords of the realm swore oaths to her. It’s no wonder he’s more angry that his succession is being violated than he is about his third in line getting hurt for picking a fight. He’s been having to settle the same petty pointless squabble that puts his kingdom in danger for decades now.
Emma D'arcy even understood the situation. They said that Rhaenyra is clearly gaslighting everyone and Alicent when Aemond is disabled.
Emma, Olivia, and Paddy are on record as saying that Aemond and Alicent were in the right.
These team black people are a special kind of stupid. There's no need on trying 2 get through 2 them.
So refreshing to hear someone that sees Alicents side instead of just blindly siding with the protagonist
I'm pro-black but even I sided with her on this issue. Aemond was against 4 people (kids but hey he's a kid too) who had him on the floor beating him where he could die. Sure Aemond hold Luke by the throat and had a rock in his hand but he never hit Luke with the rock. It was Jace he drew the dagger with the intent to maim or kill him.
@@zillagrilla315 Just because he didn’t hit Luke doesn’t mean he wasn’t intending to. The only reason he stopped was because Jace slashed at him with the intent of protecting his brother, not to necessarily kill Ameond.
@@trevordavis6830 Watch the scene again. Aemond had the rock in his right hand and holding Luke with his left hand. Instead of hitting Luke with it, Aemond lowered the rock and talked to them instead. Jace THEN pulls out a knife, and instead of hitting Luke with the rock, Aemond pushed him away. It's ONLY AFTER Jace lunges at Aemond with the knife WITH THE INTENT TO KILL, ONLY THEN did Aemond hit Jace with the rock.
When both Jace and Luke were on the ground, Aemond hesitated and didn't go to finish them. Meanwhile the strong boys had no such hesitation and attacked him with the knife right away, and took out Aemond's eye. The ONLY person in that 4v1 who didn't have any intentions of killing someone was AEMOND.
lmao yeah there called phycopaths
@@zillagrilla315 exactly so why try take lukes eye
"And now you take my son's eye, and to even that you feel entitled".
I think that line cut deepest for me: my empathy and perspective completely flipped.
Aemond says what everyone knows is blatantly true, and for that he loses an eye. And Rhaenyra seems to think that is completely fine. She chooses to maintain the lie, threaten those who don't comply, and then mock with low blows.
Covering your own faults through threats and suspending justice. A tyrant in the making.
What do you expect her to do. To say that yeah, her children are bastards even though Rhaenyra and Leanor have tried to have children of their own. And eve though Rhaenyra should have reacted more strictly towards let's not pretend that Aemond is innocent either. He took Vhagar without anyone's permission less than a day after Laenas funeral, than mocked the girls for their mothers death. He could have easely explained himself but he didn't, instead he chose to fight and almost kill his cousins to whom he was not only better trained but a few years older.
@@dzagoproductions3450 I have to add that he technically didn't steal Vhagar. Dragons are not slaves, they choose who rides them. Furthermore, even if Aemond acted more respectfully, one cannot expect children to react reasonably to a perceived act of theft, especially noble children who've been raised with the idea that everything is their birthright. It's more likely that the girls would've attacked him anyway
@@theavidgamer6213 I guess you're right about the attacking part, but still Aemond couldn't have waited a little more after their mom's funeral or just asked to try and tame it. And even though he would have been attacked anyway he still insulted their mother. And if my mother died and a small child insulted her I would kick that little shit right in the stratosphere.
@@dzagoproductions3450 Oh, Aemond certainly is an entitled and disrespectful little shit, but I think it's naive to assume that any of the children would've let him get close to Vhagar
She is Maegor with teats after all. No surprises there. 🤷
Remember Rhaenyra went around insulting and being rude to the nobles. People who she will NEED later on in her corner. Remember when Rhaenyra was in the ladies and lady Redwine was trying to tell her about war. How they shouldn't be so quick to jump into one because they cost lives and money. What does Rhaenyra do? She insults her.
Well guess who the Redwynes will be fighting for^^ Yeah Rhaenyra still got a surprising amount of support later on, but it was not exactly smart to offend the Redwynes and the Lannisters both.
@@pg1448 Plus doing her rein as queen for the year. She still chose to be messed up and mistreat people. Her rule during that time could have won both the nobles and common people over.
don't forget how she acts with the suitors at storms end. Like yeah by modern western sensibilities it would suck having to marry someone you don't know but for the time she shouldn't have acted how she did
@@idawg7332 oh man! Those same people she insulted, Rhaenyra ended up needing later down the line.
I kind of have this idea that she admired her uncle so much that she basically took to the brash parts of his personality.
Your channel is a breath of fresh air. It's so boring to see everyone else fawn over Rhaenyra and refuse to give Alicent and the greens a fair analysis. At the end of the day, this all starts with Viserys's weakness. Alicent and Rhaenyra are both monsters of Viserys's creation, and the fact that you consider that before taking a side one way or the other shows you really understand the story.
Thanks! And yes, while clearly Alicent is my favorite, I still fully recognize that Rhaenyra is also a woman who was groomed and exploited by her power-hungry uncle and who might be Viserys' favorite child, but who was still raised incredibly poorly by him and is insanely ill-equipped for the position that her father put her into. Viserys is truly king scrub and put both Rhaenyra and Alicent in a situation where they had to go to war with one another or just roll over and die. And honestly it would be hilarious if it weren't so infuriating, but the fact that people can see a story about violently enforced patriarchy and be like "if it weren't for this one woman being a crazy bitch then nothing bad would have ever happened!" is legitimately batshit crazy.
@@HillsAliveYT King scrub lmao and yea
Fair analysis, I'm keeping books out due to them making Allicent objectively worse in fire and blood.
Allicent did first blow, she watched her best friend sob on about her dead mom and father remarrying and didn't tell her
Mind you, the king hadn't asked Allicent not to speak of their meetings until after SIX MONTHS of meeting, while viewers had only seen them meet 3 times when viserys requested her not. Yet 6 months had passed. She could have told rheanyra before she was asked not to, this leads to Rheanyra omitting, not lying on her virtue, big difference. . . Furthermore Allicent defies her fathers guidance many times, Allicent chose to betray her friend. She was power hungry
People conflate Otto and Viserys' game of throning and Allicents character, Allicent has a character issue. Its independent of otto/Viserys meddling.
Allicent keeps feigning honor and decency, she literally says this to the knight who took maidenhood of princess, and killed a man at a wedding and. .
When seeing her son masterbate outside a tower window, instead of scold him; or from her being used to it, decides to do what her dad did to her, BUT Worse and Game of Thrones her son Aegon II. . . Perpetuating children bullying each other much worse
Rheanyra would not have killed Allicents kids, atleast not when Otto mentioned it to Allicent. . .
Allicent has right to be upset seeing Rheanyra break all the rules, yet it doesn't matter if her kids are bastards, shes named the kings heir meaning line restarts with her
In westerosi custom we see many bastards take priority do to this very custom, technical a bastard from a named heir takes precedent over Allicents kids
Allicent had ten years with Larys, she knew his ways, and knew what she was doing when she cried to him about her father, she pretends to be shocked. This is all her plan, she has faux pious character, made evidenced by her cheating on king with Ser Cole, yet those scenes were deleted, for now, so she's not following the rules. . . Notice her 7 pointed star next episode, such a hypocrite.
Rheanyra is far from perfect, she extended olive branch over and over and over, and Allicent coldly declines. Allicents already said she won't listen to king, or her father by her actions, she's fully power Hungry and a bad mother. .
Edit; remind me in a few weeks when you see rest of season. .. actress who plays allicent objectively says allicent is wrong and a bad mother,
Edit; while otto said rheanyra would kill her kids...
Allicent literally tells her kids that rheanyra's are bastards, something that might actually get kids killed if enemies hear
Not saying rheanyra is perfect im saying allicent is objectively bad...
I remember debating someone who thought that "the war never would have started if it weren't for Alicent and Otto" and then completely glossing over the fact that Viserys held the most responsibility in all of this and he was too incompetent to even realize the gravity of his choices. It's absolutely baffling that I only hear a few who actually notice how Viserys's decisions and actions was one of the biggest sparks that lighted the civil war.
@@Law-of-EnTropy yes, a pushover and a people pleaser is a dangerous combo
My heart breaks for Aemond and Alicent during that episode, it was so frustrating to watch how they didn’t get any justice despite permanent loss of an whole eye?? And in return Aemond was questioned while the kids who did that were protected?
Olivia Cooke’s acting in that episode really moved me almost like it felt 100% real and made me finally decide I’m team green
Even tho it’s fictional, I’m still angry at Viserys for that whole thing and was oddly satisfied when Viserys didn’t have one eye in episode 8
The irony, it was that episode that turned me to a full fledged green😂
Same! And tbh Alicent is a better woman than me. Bc if my husband and father to my children, just didn’t care about our son losing his eye. As well as not doing shit so he(aemond) could have justice. I would have lost it and probably went after Viserys with that knife.
@@adahharris943 I mean Lucereys shouldn't have lost his eye, but he should've punished in someway like having him serve Aemond throughout his recovery as a simple serving boy.
the more outrageous part is how black fans make it seem like ALICENT was the crazy one with all the "now they see you as you are" bullshit
This made me team green and to hell with team black.
I appreciate this channel for offering nuanced takes that don’t swing one way or the other on team green vs black. Everywhere else people flock to team black because they represent more modern views (different sexualities, poly relationships, women in power, essentially freedom to make your own choices) that they disregard the bad side of team black and the selfish decisions they make. Team Green are no saints either which is what makes this story so compelling. But this video helped me realize how messed up it is that no one except Alicent really cared that the prince, the SON of the king, a BOY got his eye slashed out. That is insane and yet no one receives any repercussions. And we as the audience excused it because he said mean things to the other kids and said horrible things after getting attacked and winning. His entire arc in these 2 episodes has been a rollercoaster and yet we try to label him as villain so it’s easier to pick a side to root for.
“His mom is mean and he’s kinda mean so it’s okay he lost his eye.” This video made me realize how ridiculous that is.
Yeah, the conflict is one of the most interesting in the entire fantasy world because everyone does unforgivably messed up stuff so whoever you root for is just based on personal preference, but the perception of the blacks as being radical social revolutionaries up against the greens who are propping up the system is really weird to me. I mean as you pointed out, the blacks might embrace more modern views for themselves, but they're still violently propping up the system for their own benefit, like the "poly relationship" concept clearly didn't apply when Daemon murdered his wife Rhea Royce for no reason other than his own convenience, and Laenor and Rhaenyra may have had their own arrangement but Rhaenyra is still acting out violently to protect Luke's "claim" to Driftmark when she could just as easily advocate for Laena (the older sibling) and thus her daughters to inherit Driftmark and sidestep the entire obvious bastard issue and not let people be maimed or murdered to uphold her blatant lie. The blacks might embrace more modern societal standards for themselves, but they're not doing anything to alter the system for everyone else and they're still trying to take advantage of the system for their personal gains just as the greens are.
Amen...
People forget that Aemond only ended up getting slashed in the eye because Luke was trying to defend his brother from getting his head smashed in by Aemond.
Yes Aemond was a prince who got hurt, but he got hurt from being stopped from killing a future king.
This is like if Prince Harry and his nieces and nephews were the same age and Prince Harry got hurt because Prince Louis tried to stop him from killing Prince George.
They attacked aemond first lol he was defending HIMSELF
a quote from early in the season that sticks out to me regarding alicents character is when she says “i just wanted someone to say that they were sorry about what happened to me”.
"up until thirty minutes ago he had two entire eyes and that's how he figured it out" lmao
💀
He is 10 years old, I don't think he knows about bastardy or signs of it unless he heard it somewhere or was told.
@@franciscomelendeze It's a little strange to think that a prince who lives in Westeros and is known for his intelligence would not know such a simple law.
@@franciscomelendeze Dude, the bastard himself questions it: "am I a bastard? is Harwin Strong my father?."
"he had two entire eyes and that's how he figured it out" LMFAO
“And instead of telling his absentee father that up until 30 minutes ago he had two entire eyes, and that’s how he figured it out..” I CACKLED out loud.
Last episode was fantastic. That “where is duty, where is sacrifice” scene…Olivia Cooke doing some Dinklage level lifting there. That's some emmy nomination shit. So much agony and passion! “We Know Father. Everyone Knows”. That’s Aegon’s “the Prince will remember that little Lord” moment. Aemond taming Vhagar & holding his own in a 1v4 makes him the real chad in my eyes. Only wholesome moment, our Prince resting his head on his mom’s shoulder to let her know she can depend on him. Last but not least, GOATTO Hightower with the coldest win or you die reference, "we play an ugly game”...and I’m the meme of Homer Simpson decked out in green onsies, sitting on green cushions, wearing a Hightower snapback, holding a Go Greens flag with a Alicent poster on the wall😂.Meanwhile checking in on Blacks: “What is honor compared to a woman’s uncle”-Maester Aemon 😳
Classic Aegon II committing treason in front of a dozen lords
Our Queen is a legend.
Aegon II and Cole are literally the only reasons why I don't support the Greens.
@@mcbeaty3971 How did he commit treason in that scene? He just pointed out that everyone in the room was guilty to get Viserys’s anger away from his mother, maimed little brother, and himself.
Something I'm noticing about the fandom right now is there seems to be this idea that Rhaenyra is the good queen while Alicent is the bad one when in fact, none of them are neither good nor bad. Both are subject to making decisions that would eventually lead to heavily negative outcomes. I've been debating over and over again how Alicent's decisions was entirely and forcibly influenced by her needs to protect herself and her children. This episodes showed, not only to Alicent but to her children as well that their lives could easily be thrown away. With what level of control she doesn't already have, Alicent is only taking the choice that gives her a sense of control. That is to fight and eventually cause a civil war. It costed an eye for Alicent and her children to see the reality of their position in the House Targaryen
Exactly, and that is very much the point. There's a reason Rhaenyra and Aegon are so selfish and blatantly bad options for rulers. There's a reason why both sides have done or will do colossally fucked up and unforgivable shit. It's a war that is very driven by personal feelings and POVs and it's supposed to be horrifying that the realm is ripped apart by it. But, I've gotten a not small amount of feedback claiming that if Alicent had just thrown all of her support behind Rhaenyra then the war never would have happened, and I'm hoping this episode pretty clearly demonstrated why that didn't happen and that Alicent's mistrust was pretty damn reasonable.
@@HillsAliveYT but if Alicent had fully supported Rhaenyra she wouldn't have told her children about there nephews being bastards
I mean not for nothing but if you count Daeron her kids still have 7 eyes between them.
This episode can be seen as another hint that Rhaenyra would not make a good Queen. She doesn't care one damn about the common folk (as was hinted before as well) and she is willing to kill an innocent man to further her own position.
But at least she seems to be a better mother than Alicent. Alicent cares about her childrens lives, sure, but she does not show the same warmth that Rhaenyra has towards her kids.
@@7Nebulae7 Alicent became a mother when she was around 14-16 years old. Rhaenyra was in her 20s. That makes a huge difference.
You are literaly the only one with empathetic takes towards greens and black. All people i see are cheering when child has its eye taken out or everything is Alicent fault and Daemon and Raehanyra can do no wrong and are saints. Everyone is shitty in its own way there. Also you are completly right about viserys, he is good father to only one child xd
LOL well I think Viserys only CARES about one child but he is still a terrible parent to Rhaenyra, just in a different way that he's a terrible parent to all of his reject kids.
I don't understand viserys relationship with the green sons.I wish we could have them interacting more. I wonder if it's different in the book
@@theflashgordon193 someone had theory its becouse he feels guilty over death of his previous wife and wasnt able to truly love his children with Alicent? But idk
@@oooonoooo3807 but that doesn't mean he should not care for alicent's children. That isn't a good father.
@@karenz7380 i mean yes, he is bad father, never said other wise
Rhaenyra and Daemon's fans are so hypocrite, they cheered when Aemond- a child!!! lose his eye, but they booed him when he punched girl back (girls started a fight first, 4 vs 1) like!!!!!???😬🙄😑
I mean…Aemond did steal their late mother’s dragon before her corpse was even cold.
I don’t blame the girls for attacking him as he felt entitled to their mother’s dragon.
@@MrGhostface85 Dragons are not properties.
@@MrGhostface85 Daemon's kid shouldn't get violent with physical attack.
Aemond should be applauded he believes in true gender equality he didn't the start the fight but he fought back well.
@@juu04midnight15 By our modern standards, yes, but what is to be expected when these children are given dragon eggs in their cribs and are taught to fight once they're old enough to hold sparring swords?
I completely missed the questioned sharply part! Everything was happening so fast, Rhaeneyra's words were lost on me. Holy crap, I'm looking back on that scene way differently now!
Yeah credit where it's due because I glossed over it at first too, but I saw a few people on tumblr immediately clock it and I was like oh wait that IS what that means and that IS what it says in F&B! And then I double checked A Search of Ice and Fire to see if it ever means anything besides that, and it does not. So that doesn't make Alicent's behavior less unhinged but both moms were doing the most during this whole bust-up.
It is an easy detail to miss if you haven`t read F&B or the main books. In addition to the scenes that Hills Alive already pointed out where that phrase is used, in F&B, when Rhaenyra says this, the author puts "Sharply" in quotation marks, to make it more clear what she is actually saying.
@@HillsAliveYT sharply means harsh. She wants him harshly asked who he got this information from. The father yelled and asked hence the sharp questioning.
@@yakiralovesall in the westeroisi world, sharply questioned is actually an euphemism for torture. Did you even watch the video?
MochaMa did you even watch this video? It's explained what "sharply questioned" actually means.
So many people defend Rhaenyra while ignoring that everything Alicent says about her is 100% correct. Rhaenyra is a spoiled, entitled brat who thinks the rules don't apply to her. She sleeps with Ser Criston, ignoring the consequences for both of them, she shamelessly pursues Daemon even at her own wedding, ignoring the consequences of such a match, and she has not one but three children with Harwin Strong, ignoring the consequences for herself, her children, and the kingdom. Alicent is not a saint and Rhaenyra is not a monster, but I am definitely on Alicent's side in this conflict. #TeamGreen
Rhaenyra’s flaws mostly come down to being «slutty», spoiled, arrogant, and not following oppressive rules. While Otto via Alicent is trying to incite a civil war that will lead to the deaths of Rhaenyra and her children if the Hightowers win. They know this and they are trying to make it happen, preparing their kids to hate their family and fight against them. So yes I’m going to defend Rhaenyra, before this episode she hasn’t done anything to actually harm others except pressuring Cole into sleeping with her. Which was a mistake and not done out of malice.
Ser Criston Cole is an emotionally driven person. He should've understood that asking Nyra for marriage was in vain. Rhaenyra is spoilt we can all see. But the show is biased. Think yourself at Alicent's place she was used by father as a pawn at an early age. Now she has reached this far. Can't say Ali started from scratch but she wasn't privileged as Rhaenyra.
#teamgreen.
Yes, but have you considered that Rhaenyra is based and Alicent is cringe?
#TeamBlack
@@rouskeycarpel1436 well She actually didn't think of the consequences because her father doesn't give a shit what she does and doesn't care whether the rumour about the bustards are true. She doesn't need to account to anybody since she's got power . As a woman she has many risk in her way to throne one of them is question of her son's blood. She has many foes so it is obviously they would use the bustard rumour as an excuse to put a man on the throne. World is never kind to female in terms of monarchy.
Spout whatever nonsensical cope you want, it won’t stop you from being a loser!
Wow, I was just arguing with someone on another video who didn`t think that Alicent`s fears for her kids were justified. I pointed out that Rhaenyra suggested torturing her 10-year-old brother for saying her kids were bastards. He retorted "No she didn`t, she said he should be 'SHARPLY QUESTIONED.'"
My dude, tell me you haven`t read the books without saying you haven`t read the books.🤣 F&B even puts that word, "Sharply," in quotation marks so the reader understands exactly what that means.
To be fair, if one has to read the books in order to understand the language of the adaptations, then the adaptations have done a poor job of informing their viewers. I'm not watching the show, so I have no dog in this fight regarding the Greens or the Blacks. However, I do think it's a bit much to expect the audience to understand an in-world euphemism if they've never had that euphemism explained to them.
That being said, even without understanding what "sharply questioned" means, a grown ass woman being more concerned with a child repeating a rumor than with the fact that that child was just maimed does show her priorities.
@@SuperKatiki Yes, Rhaenyra was completely unconcerned with the fact that her little brother got stabbed in the face, and was wholely concerned by what Aemond said that provoked Luke to violence in the first place.
Although, to be fair, calling the Crown Prince a bastard carries much more dire implications than a simple schoolyard insult.
@@occamtherazor3201 Typical behaviour of the "freed, progressive" left: what people say is worse than anything they do.
@@occamtherazor3201 To me, it's less about her having bastards (I mean her husband was gay) but the fact she didn't even try to find a guy that resembled her husband to be a sperm donor is when I facepalmed.
People aren't aware that in medieval times confessions by law were only thought as truthful if they were accomplished by torture.
So she certainly meant for them to be tortured even if you ignore the "sharply" part. Just asking for a man to be questioned means he is going to be beaten n his fingernails taken as evidence
viserys really sucks. i don't know why people are saying he is a good father to rhaenyra. He carved his wife without giving her a choice. He fucked up his daughter's claim. And put his his two sons on a collison course with her. He is a shitty excuse of a human being. But i was still owed by how horribly he treated his mutilated son in that episode. It was a new low even for him
Viserys heavily favoured Rhaenyra to the point where you’d think the kids he had with Alicent were just fosters he agreed to take on. I can’t say so much about his choice to cut Aemma open. The pressure to have a male heir as a Westerosi royal must be overwhelming, but if Aemma hadn’t been pressured to bear more children, none of this would be possible.
@@thedarkestfateful He favoured her, but he actively kept her from securing her position as his heir after his death, while also not absolving her of this position and hence keeping her in the line of fire for the greens. It's as if he didn't care what will happen to her, once he's dead. So long as she's alive and well during his lifetime, without him having to admit to her, that he's tossing her to the side.
Those who are blindly saying Aemond’s was the one who initiated the fight by bullying Rhaenyra’s boys should watch the scene again. When Rhaena said that Vhagar was hers to claim Aemond taunted her by saying that her cousin’s( Rhae’s boys) can bring her a pig ( remember when Aemond was bullied).
Then Rhaena attacked him first. It was Rhaena who chose to get physically violent. Then the ‘Strong’ boys joined the two girls( Baela and Rhaena) to beat Aemond. They really thought a foursome with Aemond was easy.
Aemond defended himself and finally caught Lucerys by his throat and took a rock in his hand and called them bastards ( he didn’t attack). Only then one of the boys took out the knife.
Aemond didn't start anything. Vhagar was destined to be his. He claimed his dragon and lost his eye without a reason.
Only Aegon did that to Aemond and then blamed the strong kids.
@@whitediamond133 Nope Jacerys was also there with lucerys. Watch the scene again man Man!
@@rqsnntyahoo I don't need to rewatch the scene Aegon set it up. Your making stuff up.
Luc and Jace were there but Aemon dressed the pig up not them. And Luc and Jac laughing isn't an excuse to hate them.
@@whitediamond133 Dude, rewatch it. I literally just saw it. All three were laughing and mocking him. If them laughing at him (therefore enabling the bullying and finding humor in it) doesn't warrant hate, why tf does Aemond mocking Rhaena to get a pig warrant getting jumped?
@@roseofthegarden_ Jace and Luc are kids, do you really expect them to know better and Aemon doesn't hate Aegon who set the prank up.
Your making stuff up I never claimed it warranted hate. The Rhaena thing is just an attempt to argue dishonestly.
Why tf did viserys even bother remarrying if this was how he’d treat his heirs?
finally someone that doesn’t blindly defend rhaenyra when alicent and her kids are only pointing out the obvious!
You know, I didn't catch Rhaenyra wanting Aemond tortured.
I did feel for Alicent when she snapped but I looked at the conflict as something she escalated without cause. Knowing Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured totally changed Alicent's demand for an eye in return. Everyone looks at her like she's insane when she says it, but just minutes ago they were all fine with "questioning Aemond sharply". Either way, neither grown woman should suggest harming either child.
My sympathies were fully on Aemond from the beginning, though. Yeah he said some mean things but to have four people trying to physically harm him over it isn't okay. And Alicent was right, Jace was the one who pulled the knife. After Aemond finally got a dragon - Vhagar, at that - he finally found some self worth. If anything it seems that the confrontation with Baela was the first time he chose to defend himself. Like we don't see him speak up in defense of himself until that moment, even when the others bully him. And yeah, he went too far with his words but you can totally track why. He was only mirroring the treatment he received, right down to suggesting Baela ride a pig and that aggression had been building in him for a long time. I firmly believe that words are one thing, and violence another. Aemond had every right to defend himself from assault. Though, he shouldn't have picked up a rock and threatened fiery death lol. The adults failed to pick apart and examine the conflict.
This really is like watching real families implode. There is no good or bad side. The ambiguity of these characters is so well done in this show, I feel like they nail it more than Game of Thrones did. Like I'm not seeing any "Tyrionification" of Rhaenyra or Alicent. They're both deeply flawed and judgemental and selfish, but also desperate for safety and peace.
I took the sharply questioned as like punishment, like you would a child. If she really meant torture you know Alicent would be freaking the heck out.
@@Ashbrash1998 Rhaenyra did mean torture and Alicent did freak out. That's why when Rhaenyra says "sharply questioned" Alicent looks shocked and says "over an insult"
yeah but aemod had a stone on his hand ready to bash Luke's head, so the boy just defended himself from aemod who was bigger and stronger then him
@@brendatomines8171 Aemond grabbed the rock in self defense after they had beaten him savagely on the ground. When Jace started to slash at him the knife, he has not hit anyone with the rock nor given any indication that he meant to. On the contrary he could have bashed Lukes head, but he stopped, continued talking and lowered the rock so that it didn't threaten anyone. Then he let Luke go. So Luke wasn't even in danger when Jace viciously attacked with the knife. This was not self defense, this was attempted murder due to a verbal insult ("Lord Strong")
@@brendatomines8171 Aemond had lowered the rock when he got slashed across the face. He was no longer a threat to the Strong boys or the Velaryon girls at that point.
I didn't read the book, but when rhaenyera brought up that aemond should be "questioned sharply" and alicent replied with "over an insult", coupled with the terrified look that Emily Cooked played, I knew immediately that the questioning would likely entail more than just words. I do wish though, that the show has not shied away from the greyness in rhaenyera's characters. after the season finale, i can now say that the show whitewashed rhaenyera a bit too much. while rhaenyera character's flaws were only hinted at, alicent went on a full transformative arc. perhaps the lack of overtness in rhaenyera's flaws are what make general audience misses that none of these people are good people and choose to rally behind the "badass girlboss" rhaenyera.
It’s that but also a combination of people looking at this world in a modern lens not understanding the consequences of Rheanyra action. It also seems that only TV watchers are on Rheanyra side but book reader understand the complexity of the situation. Also people comparing Alicent to Cersei when in paper Rheanyra has more in common with her on paper than Alicent.
Great analysis but it's Olivia Cook
Viserys was an absolutely terrible father to his 3 kids from Alicent. Like yeah we get that Rhaenyra is your favorite V, but dang did he really screw up by not raising his kids properly. He cared more about Rhaenyra's bastard kids than his own 3 kids from Alicent. No wonder they all grew up so resentful to Rhaenyra's family.
Let's not forget he was forced to marry Alicent.... Someone who clearly doesn't love him and takes every opportunity to passive aggressively demean him so yeah I'd be resentful too
@@lonemotheomatshaba9640 the poor adult king doesn't care about his children because his child bride does not love him
@@lonemotheomatshaba9640 You would severely neglect your kids because their childbride mother (who you started grooming when she was 14 and saw grow up alongside your daughter) acts out sometimes?
@@mariavi33 did he really groom her though as I remember it was her who went to him at his lowest
He has four kids with alicent 3 boys 1 girl it just that one of the boys is a ward at oldTown.
No wonder Aemond grows up to be such a badass
True. If I'm not mistaken, he was one of the best swordsmen in his generation even with just one eye. Couple that with the fact that Vhagar chose to bond with him at such a young age. He's done horrible things but it's not like he was the worst one out of everyone on that account. If anything, Rhaenyra and Aegon were much worse
@@Law-of-EnTropy I don't worst things it was a war
@@Law-of-EnTropy Rhaenyra deserved what Aegon did to her. She had a fookin baby murdered.
@@nunyabiznes33 Who’s baby?
@@drfifteenmd7561 Aegon's baby or Rhaenyra had a miscarriage when she heard about Aegon's coronation
I see the conflict between alicent and rhaenyra is the rule of Westeros and the rule of targaryens and how those two conflict. Alicent follows all the rules of Westeros and is furious to see Rhey disregard the laws just because she is a tarageryen and is able to do what ever she wants because of it.
That is so frustrating. You follow the rules expecting a reward or consequences for not doing so. When someone else gets away with violating the rules, you think you just wasted your own life following the rules. This defeat induces rage.
@@daddy_1453 exactly! No punk vs trump, it’s the fight between rule of law and rule of dragon
I never noticed that. Questioning sharply. I'm still surprised how little details of grrm writing get into this show.
Well one of the in-book instances of "questioning sharply" was also this specific instance, it does say in F&B that Rhaenyra asked that Aemond be "questioned sharply" about where he heard this, and it's nice that they included it but I think it would have helped if they had actually explained that and clarified that Rhaenyra and Alicent are both going batshit crazy here.
if you actually watch the fight play by play its just the velaryons try to hit aemond and aemond defends himself a bit too well and the velaryons get upset or immediately regret it. im sorry but theyre the bigger assholes in this. Aemond vs the velaryons is the perfect example of "nice =/= good". Aemond is a verbally mean kid but hes not trying to hurt anyone physically. he actively avoids hitting baela by tossing her to the side when she charges at him and next thing you know theyre jumping him 4 to 1. the worst thing he did was hold the kids off by using the rock as a threat. those are some BAD entitled ass kids rhaenyra and daemon raised.
also its alarming how good of a fighter Aemond is. shout out out to that dick head criston cole for teaching this kid because wow.
"Aemond is verball mean but hes not trying to hurt anyone!" WHAT no..... He stole a dragon hurled insults and threatened to have Baelor eaten by a dragon..... What did you expect them to do sit the and take it?!
The is an old adage that "when you talk shit you get beat"
@@lonemotheomatshaba9640 first of all he didn't "steal a dragon". as daenerys said "a dragon is not a slave". if you ever wondered what she meant by that its that you cant just "give it away". its a very willful and dangerous being. its not a house or car you leave to your kids. even if daenerys WANTED to hold her end of the bargain with kraznys, drogon would never go with him and drogon will always obey daenerys' word over anyone until she dies and he finds another rider. drogon was bonded to daenerys. the same applies to Vhagar. theres no guarantee that rhaena could ride vhagar. it's a sort of telepathic soulmate bond they have with their riders. Aemond heard Vhagar's cries at the funeral and sought her out.
secondly, He threatened Baela AFTER baela punched him AFTER rhaena charged at him. it wasnt even a promise it was a threat to keep them from attacking him again. "come at me again and i'll feed you to my dragon". was the exact line.
He literally picks up a rock to attack his nephew who is clearly a few years younger than him.
@@RiseeRee he picks up a rock to keep the others from ganging up on him again. and he does it AS lucerys lunges at him. he even puts down the rock at one point and pushes lucerys aside. Jace doesn't pull the knife out until he's called "lord Strong". that was motivated by jace feeling offended and nothing else. and you know hes wrong because Baela yells "jace!" when she sees him pull out the knife. and only then does jace get hit with a rock while he's swinging a knife at him.
@@RiseeRee it was 4 v 1 what did you expect him to do😂
Maybe this is just me but....I actually think Alicent was right to tell her children this early about the threat of Rhea and her children.
Too often in stories I feel like if only the protagonist just knew the truth.
Alicent was real with her kids.
And seriously look at Rhea's boys. They aren't innocent angels. They bully him constantly. His choice was to always bow and be passive to this side of the family. But why should he when he was son of the king?
We look at them as children but this is Westeros. Nobody sees them as kids but their mother. Everyone else sees them as pawns. Telling them early just prepared them for what was inevitable. And yes it was inevitable because Rhea isn't any different than Dani. Both will do what they have too if they need to secure the thrown.
LOL yes, I didn't respond to a lot of comments for the sake of avoiding spoilers but I feel like the horrendous and brutal death of Vaemond for speaking the truth is a fair illustration of why A. Alicent's fears are not even remotely paranoia and B. that raising her children in the manner that Viserys wanted i.e. one big happy and supportive family was way unnecessarily dangerous for them. I think Alicent probably overshared on what was age-appropriate for her kids to know but I also think she was right to keep her kids from trusting the whole blacks side of the family.
I never understood why people keep saying Jace and Luke bullied Aemond like how does a 9yr old and 6yr old bully a 11/10yr old boy?! Aegon was the one who bullied Aemond and Jace and Luke just followed what they're older uncle's antics...
I feel like people like to give Alicent too much leeway as if this woman didn't order a woman who just gave birth to bring her newly born baby to see her, Alicent emotionally manipulated a man who was still grieving the loss of his wife into marrying her, was emotionally and physically abusive to her own children and poisoned them into believing it was an us against them narrative to trap them in this horrible cycle and at every turn that Rhaenyra proposed peace that would've insured peace and safety for her children she refused further causeing hostility and when the consequences of her actions were right infront of her she went crazy and played the victim like she didn't do anything wrong..
And Vaemond is just a power hungry loser... Even ignoring the fact that both Corleys and Laenor both accepted Jace, Luke and Joffery as Valerians a marriage between Luke and Baelor or his own children would've solved his bloodline problem... So at the end of the day it was never about the bloodline it was about a second son trying to seize power from his older brother for himself and abit of envy that Luke a second son like Vaemond gets to inherit a seat he's always wanted for himself
@@lonemotheomatshaba9640 It's true that Aemond was older than Jace and Luke but you forget that he didn't have a Dragon until Driftmark. A Dragon is a symbol of power for the Targaryen. So being the only one in his family who doesn't have a dragon is prime bullying material. Remember the whole pig thing, and right after everyone left he tried to claim Dreamfyre and almost died? So the question is, how many times was he teased/mock because he didn't have a dragon?
@@zillagrilla315Aegon led the bullying. Alicent should have told Aegon that wasn’t okay. If Aegon hadn’t done anything, Jace and Luke wouldn’t have either.
Why is it that people always forget that Aegon is the leader of the bullying? And that Alicent tells Aegon basically that it’s fine for him to bully his brother in private but just not in public? Jace and Luke were just kids making jokes and thinking it harmless fun. They don’t have any other malice towards Aemond at all. If Aegon wasn’t leading it, they wouldn’t have done anything.
I really hate the ppl who sided with Rhaenyra in this episode. Aemond did absolutely nothing wrong. he went there claimed Vhagar and then got punched for it. 4 vs 1 isn’t fair and saying “oh Aemond was gonna kill luke with the rock he’s holding” is so dumb. all hell broke loose after THEY attacked him and no one should be blamed for that. they’re children. But when Rhae comes and say that her kids were attacked, wtf!! they weren’t attacked
I had a lot of empathy for Alicent in this scene even if I don’t love her character, especially since I have a daughter the same age as Aemond here. What mother wouldn’t lose their shit? Every one played the hell out of their roles here. And you’re right, all of the parents absolutely SUCK in this situation.
What a relief it is to hear a sane take on this. Subscribed.
I keep switching 🖤💚 , i like both Alicent and Rhaenyra but i do realize that :
Rhaenyra is entitled spoiled and arrogant
Alicent is insecure envious and erratic
In this episode i sympathized with Alicent the king totally dismissing Aemond and only caring for Rhae is cruel and terrible parenting
Rhae was being a hypocrite and it's disheartening to see how little she cares for her young brothers and how she doesn't let her son process his grief and how she puts rhaenys and Corlis through that traumatizing fake out
Alicent is crazy for demanding lucerys's eye but considering how everyone seems to only care for Rhaenyra facing the consequences of her actions i understand her anger
Aemond was wrong in insulting the kids parentage and teasing two grieving little girls just because now he has power but he's a kid so i don't blame him
The kids ganged up on him so him holding the rock is justified and he didn't steal vhagar chose him and honestly you can't steal the largest dragon in the world
Alicent would be very justified now in not trusting Rhaenyra's mercy especially with the laenor fake out which will just make her look bad and marrying the brutal daemon doesn't help
In the end it's all viserys's fault because even if Otto didn't push Alicent viserys would have married someone else , the dance might look different but any lady who births a boy for viserys would want him to take the throne if viserys wed laena Corlis would do exactly what Otto did the probelm is viserys's incompetence
It's so fun to watch your videos and the videos of gray area because you're such polar opposites in all your views on martin's work
You like Sansa she hates her
You're a green she's a black
She likes Daenerys you don't
You believe Griff is real she doesn't
It's so fun to hear both views
Spoiler Warning: This contains references to events that have not taken place in the story yet.
I think Aemond has been one of the more sympathetic characters in the show, even in the little time we have seen him. He is bullied by his brother and his nephews. His father doesn't seem to care about him and his mother seems happier to use his trauma as a political weapon as opposed to actually resolving the problems he is facing. It's sort of understandable that he'd go a little power mad after claiming the most powerful living dragon at the time. Obviously he said some awful things to his cousins and nephews but that doesn't justify them attacking him, never mind maiming him. And, considering the issue is not resolved (despite what Aemond said at the time), it is sort of understandable that it would lead to further resentment on his part. Not that this justifies his cold blooded murder of his nephew, but I think it demonstrates that (as you say) his maiming and the lack of resolution was the point of no return for the Dance.
I understand where he’s coming from but, the eye was a consequence for his own actions, he literally was about to smash one of the other kids head with a rock, they did what they had to do to defend themselves and it was not like they did it intentionally, not only that, he was way out of line taking that dragon and then acting all entitled when he’s supposed to be busy having empathy for he’s cousin that literally lost their mom, he was busy taking what was left of her to himself because “my brother brought me a pig and laughed ” and allicent is a terrible mother she’s never cared about their kids behavior and showing them empathy.
@@RockyPoncky he literally dropped the rock before jace or Luke struck him in the eye
@@RockyPoncky I am sorry, but they are hardly defending themselves when they were the ones that attacked him in the first place.
Right?!! I was surprised by how much I grew to like him in this episode. Kid’s got gumption and he was underestimated by his own family. He also showed kindness towards his sister, even though he doesn’t quite get her. He’s become an interesting character within a single episode.
Food for thought, consider putting a spoiler alert in this comment. Many people haven't read Fire and Blood and don't know Aemond kills his nephew.
I completely agree with this analysis further I'm tired of people pretending Rhey is a paragon of mercy for the end of this episode when she still literally had a man murdered. When Alicent found out about the strongs she was mortified where as Rhey would be willing to kill or get rid of anything that mildly annoyed her.
Yeah I'm very much baffled at the complete glossing over of the fact that Rhaenyra A. murdered an innocent man to "help Laenor escape" and B. completely traumatized her children by having both of their father figures "die" within like a month of each other? LOL and C. traumatized the fuck out of Corlys and Rhaenys by making them believe both of their kids were now dead? I have no clue what the writers were aiming for there but it was weird as hell.
@@HillsAliveYT By the way, I don't know for certain if Rhaenyra really knows that the man killed was other than her husband. It seems to me that she doesn't care if the man that died was Laenor or not, but unless Daemon told her later she believes that it is Laenor.
Agreed!!! I was a little surprised the show went down the route of keeping Laenor alive. It was a fine plot twist, and well in line with the spirit of the source material's bazillion fakeout deaths/body swaps. But still... it seemed to be purely in service of making Rhaenyra look good. I don't think we're supposed to care about the murdered body double which is a shame. I'm hopeful that next episode will confront what an awful thing Rhaenyra and Daemon put Jace, Luke, Rhaenys and Corlys through... it looks like we're getting the Vaemond incident next episode, so Rhaenyra should have to reconcile herself to the Velaryons and mend the rift between herself and Rhaenys&Corlys.
Everyone noticed Rhaenyra helping Laenor escape, but no one wonders about the servant who had to die for that plan to work
Sure Alicent was "mortified" but that didn't stop her from keeping Larys around like her lil pet psychopath. She should have turned him in if she found his actions so objectionable. But as always she pays lip service to honour and decency while doing whatever serves her the best. She's just as bad as Rhaenyra.
I know supporting one faction over another is hopeless but I can't help but sympathise more with the greens 💚
same
Same
an important thing to point out is that Aemond puts his rock hand down before Jace pulls out the knife. Aemond then pushes lucerys away from him and Jace starts swinging the knife around like a maniac and thats when jace gets hit by the rock. say it with me "Self defense!" . if i were a defense attorney and i had to defend one of the kids successfully it would be Aemond.
This ^
If people bothered to rewatch without bias, they'd see Aemond was acting in self defense whenever he struck out.
You really have best HotD videos.
Most reactions I've seen are cheering on everything Blacks and BOOing everything Green.
Yeah, it ain't easy being Green.
Most people are Daenerys fans who will cheer for any "freedom" riding bitch they can find.
Probably cuz the Rhaenyra was shown First and She seems more like a protagonist
Any normal mother would be satisfied with the outcome and not push further. A normal mother would learn a kid threatened their kids with a rock, but her children took that kids eye in response. (I.E, her children won the fight/scuffle). A normal mother would then publicly admonish her children and apologise to the aggrieved mother. But in private, she would high five her boys and tell them "good job! you fought back and defended yourselves! i raised some strong men. but next time try not to take it too far, but I'll always protect you".
Something along those lines. Especially for a woman in her position. That would ensure diplomacy with outsiders and ensures her kids retain the confidence to fight back when nessecery(being aware not to spoil her kids as well though).
Rhaeneyra as Heir to the Throne didn't do this. She instead wanted to further hurt the kid who lost the fricking eye.
Its also refreshing to see someone not treat aemond as an insecure sadist and instead the victim of bullying and neglect that nearly forced him to kill himself that he is.
black fans: "the greens are oathbreaking bastards for taking the throne. they would've been safe if they just let rhaenyra rule"
also the blacks:
*cuts out a prince's eye not only without consequence, but make it seem like he was in the wrong. Cuts a mans head in half because he's saying the truth. Forces half the lords in westeros to swear fealty to them*
Aemond did nothing wrong change my mind
Aemond One-Eye, my little psychopath badass, and I love him.
I'm so happy to have found your channel. The coverage on CZcams has been so one-sided.
Yep... And it's kinda terrifying to see how biased people are and how willing they're to clap and smile at anything Rhaenyra does.
Let's be honest and point out that Criston is technically their pseudo-dad. He's not a good person but he spends time with them.
I’d argue that he is a good person (for westeros)
Have not watched the video, but just wanted to say that your content is incredible!!! AND UNDERRATED! More people should watch your Otto, and especially Alicent videos! Love em, and would love more nuance to Cole aswell, to complete the trinity.. Thanks for all the videos!
Yeah I'll definitely dig into Cole's crazy ass at some point too! I'm not surprised that he and Alicent are besties given that their coping style seems to be "bury all my shit until it explodes like a 4th of July fireworks finale," but I think the notion that he is somehow now an unhinged and obsessed incel fixated on Rhaenyra is weird and a total misreading of what's happening there.
@@HillsAliveYT Agree!
Literally the only content that isn’t totally team black. None of the “team” stuff really matters but it’s frustrating that people are missing the point of a lot things happening simply because they like pretty dragon lovers.
With the kids they tend to do a lot more visual showing than telling with them. Jace using his arm to hold back Luke from Harwin and Criston last episode, and in this episode Jace and Baela holding hands as a way to comfort each other. Which is then followed by the girls asking them to come with them and their first response when the parents arrive was to say it was Aemond hitting them, since that’s what lead them to jump in.
Aemond gets in on this too, since we saw in this episode he WANTED to comfort Jace earlier in the episode, but he didn’t know how to articulate it and leaves instead. Which made the fight later all the more sad. While it’s due to lacking any connection to their Green cousins, while Jace and Luke showed them compassion, that lead to that confrontation towards Aemond being responded with force by Rhaena, who Aemond mocked when she has issues about not having a dragon just like him.
OMG and Leo really killed it with all of the acting this episode but I thought this was one of his biggest standout scenes, the understanding that he actually did want to connect with Jace because losing his dad was really hard but he LITERALLY isn't even supposed to say that Harwin was his dad just leaves them unable to express anything to each other.
As for me, I don’t believe the eye was the start of the war, but the underlying animosity and antagonism Alicent had been building up between the children with her constant gossiping with the hopes someone would violently murder Rhaenyras kids to protect her own. Aemond learned all this and had it constantly ingrained into him, which is why his and a lot of others eyes were pinned on Alicent, while he said Aegon is the one who mentioned it.
That animosity she and Cole has fostered under the pretense of “Honor and Decency”, which the show itself cuts to Aegon masturbating immediately afterwards, or Larys pointing out how Parents are blind to their kids faults while Alicent deceived herself like anyone else in believing she was different, served to make this inevitable violence between the children the turning point into actual conflict.
This! At this point, its just showing us that the sins of the parents become the sins of the children. I feel bad for the kids most of all, because we saw that they COULD get along. We see that with Aegon and Aemond with the strong boys, but their mother and Criston's influence ruined all that.
@@BlackfangDragon you can see in the episode that Aegon is j*rking off by the window that Aegon actually likes Rhaenyra's kids more (poor Aemond). However it is Alicent and likely Cole that turn them into the hateful people they are today. I mean sure the eye happened but Aemond was from the get go was super antogonistic, calling the kids bastards and even threatening them with his dragon eating them or burning them. Kids arent bad they are just a reflection of their parent's tutelage.
I wish Aemond and Jace actually shared some dialogue there
This is the way I saw it too, and I thought it was so clear, but I feel like I'm in Crazytown seeing almost everyone defend Rhaenyra's conduct in this episode. Somehow it's all okay because Alicent is a meanie and Aemond sToLe RhAeNa'S dRaGoN and said some mean words to his longtime bullies and the two other people who ambushed and assaulted him.
This makes me look at this episode and the events of the Green Faction's rise to power in a new light.
Before I looked at the Green Faction's coup via crowning Aegon as a self-serving power play on Otto Hightower's part. Now I look at it as not only that, but also as Alisa's only viable way to protect herself and her children from the Black Faction. As if the Black Faction crowned Rhaenyra as the new Queen Sovereign of Westeros, she and the rest of her children had no way of knowing if they'll be safe from them ever again. Especially given how her King Consort, Daemon Targaryen, was just as unreasonable as Rhaenyra would be if the Dance of the Dragons began with each faction's rolls reversed.
This channel here is pretty much the only place where people aren't 100% biased in favour of Rhaenyra...
I have a friend who watches hotd avidly, but hasn't touched the books. At the end of each episode, I ask her if war is inevitable; this was the episode where she finally said yes, and its hard to disagree with her.
In F&B, its hard to say if this is the tipping point? Its definitely a rise in tension, but its still years before the Dance. After the death of Viserys, some characters act as if there's going to be a peaceful transition of power, but its hard to say if they're just going through the motions, or if they actually believe the other side will stand down, or its just source bias. Certainly after Storm's End, the Blacks won't back down, and Otto maybe thinks that is the tipping point. And after B&C, the Greens won't back down.
Yes obviously I agree, I think things maybe could have been solved prior to Aemond's mutilation but I think Alicent went full Jesse Pinkman "he can't keep getting away with it" in this moment, and I can see why. Rhaenyra isn't evil but clearly her immediate concern any time something bad happens is to cover her own ass at all costs, and ironically I think if Rhaenyra had just admitted that this wasn't okay and admitted her kids' parts in it things might have gone over better. Not only does she flip things around on her kid brother, but having no resolution to this very serious incident both very specifically guaranteed the start of the war but also guaranteed it on a broader level because the Hightargaryens realized that they would never be treated fairly unless they fought for it.
@@HillsAliveYT then maybe Alicent shouldn't have tried to force his unwilling son to the throne he doesn't even want. All of this shit started because of Otto.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 Otto proposed marrying Rhaenyra to Aegon to combine their claim and avoid any possible civil war. He did what every person in his position would have done. The war happened because of multiple reasons, but Ottos role was minimal.
@@rexcroatorum7654 yeah true. If Viserys didn't shut that down, then they would have both bolstered their claims, being the eldest child and the eldest son, and there would have been no way Daemon could jut in except for launching a coup.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 thank you for this comment! This is what I've been saying
4:20 had me crack a laugh ngl😂 I want an alternative scene where Aemond says that
10:32 forget throwing them under the bus to save her self. She'll throw them on the stretching rack to save herself
Rhaenyra was in the wrong, Lucerys should’ve been punished.
Not just that but Viserys will not be able to give certain assurances that Alicent kids will not be killed. He is just leaving it up to chance and Rhaenyra decision but she is also as we see can be easily swayed by Daemon. Also, as we remember Stannis loved his daughter but that did not prevent him from burnng her alive and just like Rhaenyra he was fulled by a prophecy. I know this only happen in the show not in the book.
when i heard Rhaenyra say to question Aemond sharply, its pretty clear to me atleast what she wants, and its not revenge against Aemond for what he said. She wants Aemond to implicate Alicent as the one pouring treason into the princes ears, so that she can have Alicent executed, which i believe Viserys would have done if Aegon and Aemond had told the truth about their mother. I get that from Rhaenyras perspective Alicent is a threat to her kids because she so clearly wants them all dead, but to try to get your 10 year old little brother to indirectly cause the death of his own mother is pretty fucked and i get why Aemond atleast would hate Rhaenyra.
Episode 7 is the reason why I became team green
Dear Hill's Alive, you are the first and only one to talk about the words of Rhaenyra about torture. It annoy me at high level than nobody noticed it in the youtubers commentators. The favoritisme of people for team black is, for me, unbearable. (for a tv show, yes, let's keep in at its relative value^^).
it's not something well explain by both show.
I love your videos, it's perfect 💚
"deadbeat dading" favourite line lmao
Although I support neither sides as I don't have any kind of emotions attachment to them and also because both sides will be terrible rulers. All I want to say is atleast the greens are held accountable by the books and the fandom for doing things. Not just holding accountable, they are vilified for doing the same kind of shit the blacks do. Look at how much shit alicent gets from the fandoms when she has nothing special or different from what the other people in this GOT universe has ever done. Every other house present has done the same thing alicient and the hightowers have done but they are only one who are vilified to this extent. But the blacks, they get away with everything. Fans literally hero worship Daemon and rhaenyra wrong and rash decision are always overlooked. Aeomond lost an eye and his father didn't care and rhaneyra children were this viciously violent but still no one cared and people are only caring about alicient's dagger scene and calling what she did high treason. Yes she did loose her temper and I agree it's wrong but here clearly both sides are wrong. Why not say it?? Rhaneyra's child too did a big thing, he physically mutilated the kings child. Isn't that a big thing?? Aemond is getting more shit for standing for himself against 4 children who were beating him up then the the kid who took an eye old in just a basic child fight. I am always shocked at how hypocritical and biased is towards the blacks. This Targaryen, Daemon and rhaneyra hero worship by the fans is such a turn off. Honestly the GOT fandom was a lot better.
Rhaenyra is the rightful heir and I think that even most of the greens agree to that in principle. But she also commited high treason two times, because, first she is holding information that should be disclosed to the king, second she is trying to put bastards on the throne, but they have no right by westerosi law, so it is obviously a crime against her rightfull heir Aegon (and later against her children with Daemon) and is also a crime against the kingdom, high treason, she is abusing her power. From a legal standpoint the Greens have the right to rebel and oppose Rhaenyra, she is a traitor against the Seven Kingdoms. The only way to ammend the situation would be to come clean to the king, hope for a pardon, then recognize that her bastards are bastards, and legitimize or take them from the succession.
There would be no pardon or forgiveness there. It's too bad they weren't born with their mothers blond hair. I like your take though. I've mostly been on the side of the reds because like it or not, rhaenyra is the heir and anyone opposed to that is in direct rebellion. However, you make a good point that she has committed treason herself by trying to put bastards on the throne. Bastards though they may be, they still are targs and it's not like she's trying to put a foreign power there. Things are so messy and her willingness to have her brother tortured is barbaric and horrifying. Alicent could have saved herself all this trouble by wedding her kid to one of rhaenyras but she seems to almost want a conflict.
she's the heir, but not the "rightful" one. Monarchy is not tyranny. There are rules. And since thousands of years, males inherited titles. For a simpe reason : the transmission of the name.
@@KartovOndulevitch Yes, but there are always precedents. House Stark and Lannister have done it before. Joffrey Lydden married the daughter of Gerold Lannister and took the name. Bael the Bard's bastard became Lord of Winterfell because he was a Stark on his mother's side. Hell, Harrold Hardyng stands to become ruler of the Vale of Arryn despite being the great nephew of Jon Arryn through his grandmother. He'll be Harrold Arryn should that day come.
That's not even counting the Hornwood issue or the fact that the Dornish don't seem to be changing names every couple of generations.
My point is, if important enough, people will find sufficient wiggle room to make sure it goes on.
@@KartovOndulevitch then the solution is simple, isn't it? Allow the name to transmit through the female line because it is literally the most arbitrary thing in the world.
@@kiracarver988 Not arbitrary at all. How monarchies began ? 50% with the best warrior (so, physically, not a woman), 50% with someone which is and strong and just (and it still can't be a woman). (etymology of "king" mean "strong" and "roi/rix/rex" mean "rightful)
It really did.
It was the first time blood was actually spilled.
I’d argue that Rhaenerys decision to openly flaunt her clearly bastard sons knowing that she already has the burden of being the first female queen is the catalyst for the conflict that happened. Of course that a situation like this was gonna inevitably happen. She was selfish and wasn’t thinking about the good of the realm in any way.
I mean her husband was gay, but at the very least she could've found a man who looked like her husband.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 Her husband being gay has nothing to do with her dumb decisions to openly display bastard children as legitimate.
I think it was indicative of the climate he was in that Aemond losing an eye compared to calling his cousins bastards, something that can and will cause a civil war later. But I think it was extremely telling that he was fine with it in that he gained the largest most powerful dragon in the world. I'd love to see your take on why Vhagar chose Aemond as her new rider, there's speculation that Vhagar chooses based on the bravery of the person.
I usually love Viserys, but this scene got me irritated, like bro, your own SONS that you killed your first wife for just got mutilated. all of those children should have been scolded and Rhea should have been silenced right then and there. Alicent needed Viserys to step up to be a husband and a FATHER to his sons. and he failed them all.
I completely missed the question sharply, and it would've been great if the show addressed that earlier so people would understand a little bit better what's actually happening here and the reasons why Alicent would snap like this (other than you know her son lost his eye because apparently it's not enough for some people). I think it's quite sad how the show makes it so obvious that the black are supposed to be the "good guys" (like they washed out Daemon's reputation as another Maegor) and the greens the "bad guys" (making Aegon an insufferable little brat and turning Aemond into one when Rhaenyra's sons have almost no flaws) when everything so interesting in this conflict is how everybody is right in their claims. Especially with what happened with Laenor ; would've been so much better in my opinion if they left it unclear whether it was Rhaenyra&Daemon's idea or Qarl&Laenor's idea to let him go.
Anyway, thank you for your videos ♥ you made me give another chance to the entire book serie and that's something because the french translation is awfull to read. Thank you !!
I didn’t think I would feel so bad for Aegon II but they keep treating him terrible and he doesn’t do anything.
When I watched this scene, I noticed how Aemond looked at Viserys as the events played out. You could see in his face that he understood that his father would never come to his aid or defense, thus fanning the flames of resentment towards him. People may bash Alicent, but she reacted the way a normal mother would. Sure, she shouldn’t have went for Rhaenyra’s son, but she wasn’t being rational. She was acting on a mother’s pure rage.
Having rewatched the fight scene between aemond and the strong boys, its pretty clear that aemond acted in self defence. Ideally he would have grabbed the rock and run but he was a ten year old being DOGPILED.
I'm convinced rhaenyra supporters are completely blinded by kneejerk feminism.
Yep rhaenyra stans like her because they think she’s a girl boss and that she’s the new Daenerys. I see so many people saying she’s a perfect queen which is ridiculous. Not that the greens are better
Kneejerk feminism is a great phrase, I will definitely use it from now on. 😊
In the end, there is no good or bad guy in the Dance of the Dragons. It's just a bunch of people willing to murder their own family over who gets to sit on the world's most uncomfortable chair.
"Telling his absentee Father that until thirty minutes ago he had two eyes and that's how he figured it out" - that was most of the most casually savage comments I've ever heard.
Viserys is irredeemable, incorrigible. I have no means to watch the Series but I have read the stories long ago and seen videos on CZcams. I´m honestly a fan of Aemond, Daemon, Alicent and Helaena. Rhaenyra I´m undecided about. Rhaena and Baella are literal angels. The rest can go eff off. Especially Bitchserys. No true king there. Decision making isn´t his stronghold.
Off topic: I really like your calm way of speaking in your videos and that you leave the pictures in frame for a long time. It's very relaxing for me that there are no constant moving videos and fast hectic cuts. Good job 💜
I have just found your channel after randomly searching CZcams in frustration; I watched House of the Dragon and then, as I usually do, watched some reactions on CZcams and thought that I must be crazy or something because out of the 13 channels I've watched only 2 were neutral when it comes to the conflict between Blacks and Greens, while the rest were completely biased in favour of Rhaenyra and called Aemond evil as well as couple other insults. Ignoring the threats of torture and her complete lack of any kind of sympathy.
Just because she's been our "protagonist" doesn't mean we have to root for her. It's a very similar situation as with Breaking Bad, where ultimately Walter was the antagonist and Hank the hero, we were just familiarised with the "bad" from the begging and learned to excuse/accept it.
Not to mention that later on they pretty much went along with everything Rhaenyra did while clapping and smiling, but they also said that Alicent is pretty much the most morally bankrupt person in the whole show... Aaaand wanted her to be executed, so yeah, that's some moral superiority right there.
I'm glad that I found your channel because now at the very least I know that I'm not insane and alone on this one.
I'm not saying that Alicent and Otto are the good guys here, because everything is very much grey instead of black and white, but I respect them more... And if the writers play it right Aemond may become my favourite character.
I wish that more people wouldn't be so blind.
Is it ok to feel like from a modern perspective there is some strange catharsis watching two noble privileged and entitled factions squabble until both fall apart?
If you don't think too much about the innocent children that go down with them and the commonfolk that is smashed under that fight by both sides...
@@diegonatan6301 fair enough
I choose to look at it this way: if the targaryens didn’t lose their dragons Robert’s rebellion against the mad king would have failed
@@idawg7332I don't think the mad king and his kids would even exist
Aemond's eye might have made conflict inevitable, but it was essentially a Cold War until short-sighted Aemond drew first blood and then hot-headed Daemon retaliated. Only outcome then was mutually-assured destruction...
I was a little surprised that the writers chose to use the question sharply phrase. Its cool they included it though its like a little easter egg for those who catch it!
It goes to showing the desperate nature of the situation too, like she's so afraid of the damage accusation could do that she asked to have the kid tortured when its clear the children are proxies of the adults in the room and their situation.
It also adds a nice layer because she is suggesting further harm be done to Allicent child when she is in the middle of defending her childen from potentially being maimed by ser crispin... its all very bad but in a pretty well constructed way.
I am really loving your analysis because it gives me insights into the characters more. I now see Rhae on a different light.
Every point spot on! Great video.
I keep stumbling into your videos and god I'm glad someone can see this situation so rationally and clearly.
"Up until this moment I had 2 eyes and thats how I figured it out" is such a dope line!
Thank you for the nuanced take on the situation! Another excellent video!
I love your channel because you nailed it!!
Your channel is highly underrated
Amen.
Its nice to see someone judging this situation objectively and not falling into all the positive framing and excuses the show gives rhaenyra and her faction.
Rhaenyra wants Aemond tortured. I did feel for Alicent when she snapped.
Keep up the great content. I also enjoy how the videos are mostly 10+ mins. I enjoy your theories and I learned a lot of channel.
PS : and I'm very afraid the producers are very very team black too : in the next episode, the actors which will play Alicent's children look very arrogant and mean (aka : they are supposed to be the bad side team) (and I'm afraid the show, once again, lose its promess to create a grey vs greey conflit, and than we will have the annoying/boring god vs bad war, as did GOT in its last 4 seasons...); (btw I would like to notice the awesome performance of the actors which played Aemon and Aegon. Very expressive. I will miss them)
Fantastic analysis!! Completely transformed how I interpret that scene.
From a legal standpoint Aegon Il should be heir, Rhaenyra has broken the law and withheld the truth from the King. Any good King would recognize that she isn’t fit for the throne and announce the next heir, much like when Viserys was chosen over Rhaenys by Jahaerys. I believe Viserys feels fully responsible over Aemma’s death, which is why he chooses not to look into or punish Rhaenyra.
I also think people are forgetting how the Noble families, military, and people will look upon this when they find the truth. The nobles and people are much like Alicent whom are held to the standard of the law and are severely punished if they break the law. Westerosi society won’t look well upon Rhaenyra and that is reflected by Stannis Baratheon’s account of Rhaenyra in the future.
Stannis is not a typical westerosi noble tho. Which is why he's hated as fuck by them
@@BasicLib Whether Stannis is a typical westerosi or not, he isn’t the only one who holds Rhaenyra in low regard.
In general, Westerosi society doesn’t favorably remember or regard Rhaenyra well. This is because the majority of Westerosi society would’ve seen her as a brat queen turned tyrant because she couldn’t follow or be held responsible for the laws she broke. She is remembered as a traitor to the crown.
Mind you think what you will, I’m sure Rhaenyra as a person wasn’t that bad, but as a queen and legally speaking she was a dumpster fire.
Alicent should have turned that knife at Vesris when he told her to let her. She should have been like ok i will let her go and take your eye
the thing i keep forgetting is that aemond and aegon are her brothers lol
wow I missed that O_O (I feel dumb lol)
All your points aside, first blood was drawn at storm's end precisely because of what happened.
Aemond losing his eye here guaranteed Luc's death later.
Well actually I suppose luc could of taken up Aemond on his offer and cut out his own eye
I guess whether you count the lost eye as the beginning of the dance of the dragons or not really depends on how you look at it. What is definitely undeniable though is the fact that the foundation for the dance was laid in all of the events prior to the lost eye, And I would say the corner stone of that foundation was laid the night Rhaenyra went out on a night of debauchery with her uncle.
The whole situation has been a Powderkeg for so long that war was inevitable; it just so happens the children squabbling and the lost Eye was the spark that set it off.
Hey just came across your channel and I’m diggin’ it.
Even though I’m of the mind that both sides have major issues and flaws, I’m glad you’re something of an Alicent defender. You’re at least acknowledging how precarious her situation is and other videos of yours that point out how she’s got the better practical argument since Aegon is, you know, legitimately born.
I see too many people that just view Alicent as evil. And that’s a boring take on her. She’s a great character.
It's honestly irked me how so many people have been so harsh against Alicent and supportive of Rhae when the situation is what is driving it. Alicent doesn't want this to happen. Neither does Rhea but the situation just can't be stopped.