Ned Block - Is Consciousness an Illusion?
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Is consciousness something special in the universe, its own category, irreducible to physical laws, a carrier of meaning and purpose? Or is consciousness a mere artifact of the brain, a by-product of evolution, a superstition exaggerated by human misperception? If you think or hope consciousness is special, then you should surely be a skeptic.
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Ned Block is an American philosopher working in the field of the philosophy of mind who has made important contributions to matters of consciousness and cognitive science.
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Closer to Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
"How do I know that I exist?" a student asked his philosophy professor. "Who is asking?" the professor replied.
Funny … as most tautologies - including Descartes - are
Tauntologist
The answer depends on wether the question is coming from Ego(who we 'think' we are) or the soul(who we REALLY are).
The reality will throw something on the student and ask “can you feel it?” The answer from the student will be the experience that shows if the student really exists or not.
@@venkat2002 huh, what?
I remember my sister's near death experience she said she saw her body lying on bed and she felt no attachment to it, no feelings. But she is seeing it like she is different, something light, no emotions, but aware and feels connected to everything.
consciousness is either ALL BRAIN or MORE THAN BRAIN. i used to think consciousness was the product of neurons and that's the end of it until i had altered states of consciousness.specifically i had out of body experiences and lucid dreams , and now i know how vital it is to keep an open mind.
Wouldn't believing something that isn't conscious could suffer from an illusion be such a contradiction of terms that it wouldn't be worth discussing in the first place.
Yep. Anyone claiming consciousness is an illusion is lying, hasn't really thought about it hard enough, is an idiot, or is not actually conscious. I was absolutely shocked when I discovered actual professional scientists and philosophers hold this clearly absurd belief. To be quite honest I actually doubt many genuinely do believe it and instead it's one of those group think type things that people end up outwardly going along with for professional development reasons while privately holding quite different beliefs.
Our current consciousness is the consciousness of the present which in turn was the consciousness of the future which is always processing into the past.
Bassotronics 🙏🏽
꧁Consciousness꧂
nn,DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
czcams.com/video/eHt4bsvMilc/video.html
GodsNarrowGate@gmail.com
@@justthemessengers
😘
Exactly who is the illusion being presented to? Bit of a paradox there, don’t you think?
If consciousness is an illusion, what is it that's being fooled by this illusion?
Were consciousness an illusion I would be really pleased to be unaware of the fact.
well said
I would want to know - what is the purpose of the illusion?
Love your show.. love the shorts.. great stuff. Keep asking the good stuff!!
Loved this episode and for the same reason the series as they present a lens and a looking glass to what we don’t know …
an epistemological journey into uncertainty and possibly unknowability.
How can any system - natural or artificial - ever know itself en toto?
The effort, though necessary, worthwhile and rewarding, seems to me to be impossible.
꧁Consciousness꧂
DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
czcams.com/video/eHt4bsvMilc/video.html
GodsNarrowGate@gmail.com
@@justthemessengers wow! You say a whole lot of nothing. Amazing theory though.
@@garychartrand7378 By seeking nothing, one discovers
@@johnpayne7873 uhh OK
An illusion still needs an observer to be deluded. A separate higher mind and soul do not negate the workings of the brain.
Excellent point, but doesn’t it deserve a cautionary caveat - that of being intrinsically circular?
@@johnpayne7873 I think we were afraid that we will find out that this whole world is an illusion. And that Consciousness is the only reality
@@johnpayne7873 Maybe - but the alternative (believing in the nonsensical notion of illusions in the absence of conscious perception) is to go full Dennett and deny that consciousness exists. That's a consistent position, and it sits well with our scientific understanding of the world. The only problem is that every conscious being in the universe knows with absolute certainty that it's false. Apparently, that's not a problem for Dennett et al - we're just all mistaken!
@@jonstewart464 Well, plenty of people "know" things that don't seem to be based on fact.
This stuff is fun to think about, even if that thinking is just an illusion and not really anything at all. 😉
@@jonstewart464 The illusion of this world is perfect and unravels so deeply as to be without resolution. It is designed that way to trap persons of intellect in their own web of analysis. It will always reveal new information no matter how deeply we probe. Those who direct the search inwards will ultimately stand on the precipice of reality and will be struck dumb. Each one has to discover for themselves. No one can give you the answer.
6:45 there is something very important there "essential" actually I didn't expect that they know that (controlling visual guided action) "probably they knew that through watching the brain signals" but it is far more complicated than that.
I wish I discovered this channel earlier in my life. All the questions that came to my mind are found here.
So these are two automatons discussing something they don’t really have? Nah
Please have a conversation with Michael Grazziano. If you’ve had one already, have another. Happy also to talk about the Conscious Turing Machine (CTM).
When my son was about 11 years old he entered a Jaycee Relay Race. He’d never ran track before and didn’t know everybody wore shorts. He came in jeans, to everyone’s amusement. He ran the last leg for his team - and came away the fastest runner of the day, and made up considerable distance to win. This video made me think of that day. How I wish I had been able to see it, instead of only hear and read about it. I was a single mom and had to work. My son was an amazing athlete. ❤️
(9:25) *NB: **_"It's better to recognize what you don't know rather than call consciousness an illusion."_* ... It is ironic that the phrase _"don't know"_ is often used when evaluating consciousness because consciousness is all about _"knowing."_ It is a fact that atoms _don't know._ Chemicals _don't know_ either. Galaxies _don't know._ Stars _don't know._ Planets _don't know._ And rocks certainly _don't know._ In fact, all inanimate structures in the universe _"don't know"_ ... and the reason is rather simple:
*Consciousness = Information*
For 13.8 billion years, consciousness (information) has been evolving in an attempt to "know" what its own existence represents. From the first inanimate hydrogen atom 380,000 years after Big Bang to the first living prokaryote nearly 4 billion years ago, information has been evolving / growing / expanding. Now WE are the ones tasked with finding the answers. Humans represent the highest point of a 13.8-billion-year-long evolution of "Information" (Consciousness). We are living, self-aware *_information_* trying to figure out what information (Existence) represents.
People think the universe holds all of the answers, when in reality, ... the universe is looking to us for the answers.
Consciousness is the realm of perception. Perception is illusory because it is always shifting. Knowledge is stable because truth is unchanging. We live in a dream world of perception until we seek the truth and listen to the Guide to truth.
" Knowledge is stable because truth is unchanging." Tell that to Donald Trump
Our perception is flawed this is true. But if I am to seek the truth I need first be convinced that this is what I want to do. I cannot chose to be convinced before I am and when I am convinced I cannot choose not to be. Where is the free will in that?
@@plantatheist5883 Between truth and illusion, which would want?
If consciousness is an illusion, we couldn't possibly experience the illusion.
the end is great , it nails perfectly that wicked attitude of many to call "illusions" the things they cant explain.
@@TheCharonic you think you are smart.. that is the only illusion your brain is creating. only real thing that exists is the consciousness itself, you can't really prove anything else exists in a physical manner.
Wicked? Robert's content is appealing to too many nut cases these days.
@@TheCharonic if you think you are all an illusion why you get so angry here ...enjoy your "nothingness" and be happy ...
in these matters a consensus on the meaning of terms like 'illusion' is very important. those people you think you're opposing do not really exist. ;-)
@@techstuff3409 you basically believe in ghosts... cute. consciousness relies on a material structure.
The term "illusion" seems kind of dismissive. "Phenomenal" maybe a better term. Consciousness is "real". Just that it may not be "fundamental". And as much as it may seem "obvious", there are definitional problems.
Mark Solms (neuropsychologist) gave an interesting talk for The Royal Institution (CZcams). It began with re-examining the "hard problem".
Suppose one built a machine that was not only aware of the environment, but aware of itself, then would it be "conscious"? This would not only be perception-model-action (agent responding to environment), but a "model of a model", "awareness of 'awareness'", i.e. able to model it's own cognitive processes, change its own programming ("free will"?). You have any inner learning loop. Then an outer learning loop, for changing it's own representation, learnings, programming, destiny, ... Then would the machine be conscious? Or would it still be in the realm of control theory, and unconscious?
Most people would not regard a Roomba, no matter how smart, to be conscious. The "feeling" of consciousness in humans is different. The way that "qualia" appears is different. Through a number of brain experiments, Mark Solms thinks consciousness is centralized in the brain stem. The data comes from localization experiments and observations, primarily electrical stimulation, and lesions. And our sense of consciousness, actual "feel" (qualia), is uniquely mammalian. It is very closely related to the sense of "feeling".
It is possible that someday that machines will have "consciousness". Just not in the way that humans do. It will be its own thing. Or just take biology as it currently exists, ... ants, snakes, ... have a consciousness that would be its own thing, but very different from what humans mean by "consciousness".
One can raise a question about why the human mammalian sense of consciousness, is even there in the first place. It is not universally present. Most biological processes are unconscious. What is the evolutionary advantage, of this particular form of consciousness?
It only takes a certain level of intelligence to survive, therefore anything above that isn't necessarily useful, even if it is desirable.
As for machines, I don't think they will ever be truly conscious - even if they can immitate consciousness effectively. Something truly conscious in the human sense surely has to have evolved from a living organism.
Question 1: Is there even a single example of the occurrence of consciousness without a brain (substrate)? What if consciousness is simply a conventional name for a class of phenomena we call conscious.
Question 2: Does the truism - "correlation is not causation" applicable to the brain/mind/consciousness relationship? When general anesthesia is applied does a person lose consciousness because of "correlation" or "causation"?
꧁Consciousness꧂
DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
czcams.com/video/eHt4bsvMilc/video.html
GodsNarrowGate@gmail.com
@Artificial cocoon intelligent being 🙏🏽
꧁Consciousness꧂
nn,DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
czcams.com/video/eHt4bsvMilc/video.html
GodsNarrowGate@gmail.com
When we talk about other animals it is clear that it is just natural instincts but with humans it must be something higher but is it really maybe we are just flattering ourself.
It seems to me that consciousness, even at a fundamental level, depends on there being a feedback loop of of some form, with a complex sort of consciousness, like we presumably possess, being a collection of these, embedded, linked, and nested etc. Also, I completely believe that Penrose and Hammeroff are onto something with the brain as a network of macroscopic quantum systems. Regardless of the specific mechanism, whether it be mediated by microtubules or not. In fact, I am willing to go much further down that line of reasoning, to multiversal superposition and entanglement of minds with other versions of self. Unfortunately, the only information, or data that could most probably be recovered, may be subjective qualia recorded through dreams. At least until there exists a true brain/machine interface, and even then, real objective data may be elusive.
The brain being a huge maze of electrical circuits is not perfectly made and short circuits are heavily there and those same short circuits in turn are what shocks us into a consciousness state. Or the resistance of the matter itself which the brain is comprised of interacting with all the various sections much like electronic resistors and capacitors giving arise to consciousness.
That’s just my theory.
I intuit that the basis of consciousness is a singularity, and that the feedback loops you described are somehow necessitated by (or emergent from) the singularity. In other words, there is just one 'thing' in common with all these feedback loops, which makes them all technically ONE feedback loop. However, any proceeding is not sustainable and it collapses on itself whenever it appears. It 'has to admit' it is fully contained within the singularity at some stages, though somehow, it just inherently wants to create or feel purpose. I can only speculate that this is some kind of emergent phenomenon arising from this idea: there is one nothing.
It's pretty far-removed, but I can see how "I must find some purpose!" could be emergent of the paradox: "one nothing"
Consciousness seems to be an adventure to find out how much stuff we can get.
@@bennubyrd Very nice and intuitive theory. Many of our ancestors eg the Egyptians, Eastern philosophers, native Americans, Africans folklore, Christian gnosticism, etc allude to the same idea...
@@Bassotronics Interesting theory but you still have to assume a "physical brain". Or, as suggested with the feedback loop, the thing creating would also be responsible for creating itself. If so, as @ben nu suggested, the two would nullify each other. In that scenario you would have the entire universe and nothing existing simultaneously in a state of superposition. Not so far fetched when you consider that even Stephen Hawkins suggested that all the energy in the universe being a complete balance of positive (matter) and negative (gravity) forces should nullify each other and equate to absolute zero.
I'm not sure how quantum states come into play here. Quantum effects operate on a whole different level than biological systems operating on molecules, ions, tissue, blood and oxygen.
6:15, 6:45 it is more than controlling visual guided action but what he said is correct
Can you please have another episode on "Is Consciousness an Illusion?" with a philosopher like Keith Frankish who has by far a more nuanced theory of Illusionism than Dennett. Yes Keith is a student of Dennett but his views on Illusionism don't fall flat against many of the arguments Ned Block raised here simply because unlike Dennett, Keith addresses phenomenal consciousness directly. Not access consciousness only. Don't quote me but I personally don't think the "many drafts theory" on its own says much about consciousness being an illusion. Dennett's direct contribution to Illusionism is his view (more like comment) that phenomenal consciousness is an interface to the underlying neural processes. Much like how the computer's graphical user interface (GUI) is an interface to the physics and engineering that underlies digital circuitry. Now, where the "Many drafts theory" comes in is when one might ask "Who experiences the illusion?", you can now say that there is no "man in the theatre" but rather many drafts of access consciousness fighting for control. You can now see that the many drafts theory is really a theory of parallelism in the brain and how there is no one centre of consciousness in the brain.
I haven't read Frankish's book, but when I've heard him speak he seems to do nothing more than support the same old functionalism that's been going round for decades. I must be missing something, because when I've listened, it's been the precise opposite of "addressing phenomenal consciousness head on". I'd love to hear him really make the case in its most elegant formulation, any suggested videos or do have to read his (bloody) book? I tried Dennett's (twice) and found it a bit like chewing sand. Sand that was completely wrong, at that.
Consciousness being an interface would not make it an illusion. An interface is used to hide data that the user does not need
@@jonstewart464 czcams.com/play/PLiDYw1G3ZEaLizOlf6flLc876ZpsIzmEs.html
@@ogbanugot6078 Thanks. I might give those a whirl when I get chance👍
Thank you, much better put than the dismissive approach of the speaker interviewed
Fortunately, you have too accept that your consciousness is reality in order too study the reality of consciousness.
Fortunately
Two things that I believe might have an explanatory effect on consciousness: 1. evolution and 2. basic sensorimotor operation. Evaluate consciousness in those two contexts and I that might reveal new insight.
Consciousness isn't an illusion.
A long-lasting, continuous, separate "self" is, though.
Yep. Nailed it _!!_
Self is an illusion produced by Ego in the physical brain. Consciousness (soul) is the observer of the illusion.
What is being alluded? How can an automation be “ fooled”?
If consciousness is an illusion, then so is science, or anything created by the mind
I suppose it is an illusion in that we only experience a small fraction of reality.
Yes. Objective reality might be a lot different from what we experience subjectively, yet there's no way to define such objectiveness.
Can the human use of language describing conscious experience not only functionally and cognitively, also subjective awareness and feeling, be used to demonstrate the reality of consciousness and subjective awareness?
Intellect certainly cannot be illusion. If consciousness is illusion what does that mean for the subconscious, and regarding the subconscious how would thinking arise due to thought, which arises from Intellect. Subconscious allows us to utilize the Intellect thus thinking and reasoning. Without consciousness could there even be subconscious. Without Intellect could there even be consciousness and are they the same thing?
Great inquiry here, I'm just going to say it's not an illusion.
This channel asks question about consciousness though I've yet to see an inquiry regarding the intellect.
Bias gets into the way of real truth.
There is only consciousness
What do you mean by consciousness? An ability to synchronize with Nature's abundance and predation? The abstraction of subjective experience, the abstraction of concensual experience, the abstraction of objective experience? Experience as passive synchronization, experience as active synchronization, experience as de - synchronization?
Are all humans human? How could we tell if some humans were experiencing the world in a way that was superior (more synchronized with Nature as it really is) to ours? How could we tell the difference if we couldn't compare and contrast?
The plains Indians in America seemed in sync with their environment. They were overcome by a civilization whose concensus was fashioned by violent conflicts with multiple social structures and cultures over centuries.
In human terms consciousness and culture are integrative. In the animal world consciousness and survival are integrative. Is consciousness subordinate to survival, independent, coordinate, or superordinate?
If consciousness is primary then culture and survival are impediments to its study. They are states of consciousness but not consciousness itself. Like languages are forms of communication but not communication itself.
꧁Consciousness꧂
nn,DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
czcams.com/video/eHt4bsvMilc/video.html
GodsNarrowGate@gmail.com
I think the basis for consciousness is the same for every form of consciousness. If we remove our memory, our experiences and our reflection in the mirror we are all left with an internal self that has no personal identity. So if we all have an internal self that has no personal identity outside of our physical bodies and the memories stored in it, how does the internal self differentiate between one person and the next other than the differing physical manifestation. We are the embodiment of self. Myself, himself, herself, ourselves is all just self, the only thing that separates us are the unique physical embodiments that give rise to unique individuals through the physical experiences and memories created. You may look in the mirror and be dissapointed with the impression made on self but realizing that there is only self you start to realize that all the beauty we see in this world is just a reflection of self.
But our experiences are fragmented. There is a boundary to what is one's experience beyond which there is no access.
I do agree with what you stated above. I would add that time itself is fragmented. I see consciousness much like the photon of light. The photon is timeless and non physical, however the photon is emitted by physical matter, so physical matter gives rise to non physical energy that carries memory through force. I see consciousness much like that.
The reason why is because of time. I can be conscious while creating memories and forget to measure time. My failure to measure time results in time seemingly moving faster. Consciousness has the ability to measure time if it chooses to do so but it exists in a timeless state like the photon.
You wake up in a dream conscious of the dreamland you are in and even feel physically present in the dream, however during the dream you cannot measure time because nothing physical exists therefore you can't measure time. You wake up and just like when you were busy creating memories and failing to keep track of time, time seems to have passed more quickly even instantly as if it didn't pass at all.
Unless you suffer from neurological issues or disease the body keeps on aging physically while the mind feels as youthful as ever. Our state of consciousness doesn't seem to be what fails us... or ages. Our physical bodies and sensory provided by the chemistry does.
We are a force carrier just like the photon, remove the atmosphere from the planet and you and a feather will fall back to earth with the same veloocity much like electromagnetic radiation. A medium also slows our velocity and just like light you and the feather will impact the earth with a different force. So like the light wave you travel at the same velocity regardless of mass and like the difference between a gamma ray and a radio wave your body will impact with a different force than the feather. Same velocity different force.
I personally feel there is correlation between the energy state of the brain waves and the energy state of the light wave they function much the same.
Just my thoughts when I ponder it.
@@jayb5596 The photon is physical and it has kinetic mass. A photon is timeless and so is matter. Matter is timeless and does not age. Matter radioactively decays back into its' constitutes. Time exists because we can measure it with a clock. Everything in spacetime moves at the speed of light because that is the only speed. Photon's move through space at the speed of light so they experience no time. We move slowly through space while the rest of our speed is in time and that is why we experience time.
@@kos-mos1127 I was not referring to kinetic mass the photon has no resting mass. I should have been more clear above when I referenced matter. I didn't mean the at the atomic level I mean at the molecular level. The atoms of our bodies may not experience time but the molecules that they are bound into certainly do. The chemistry fueled by the physical matter certainly does but consciousness whatever it is, is as timeless as the photon.
@@kos-mos1127 Mass is interchangable with energy. The difference between a gamma wave photon and a radio wave photon is the energy state of the photon. The gamma wave carries higher energy and will impact with greater force delivering more momentum at an equal velocity. The difference between an alpha and beta brain wave is mass. Which is just a more energetic wave of energy a more excited electrical impulse. The correlation is there for me to each their own. Radioactive decay happens when an atom is unstable. A stable atom doesn't radioactively decay, it thermally radiates. Radiation of charged particles like a proton is drastically more energetic than the typical thermal radiation of the atom.
A simple way to understand this without all this nonsense . Right vs wrong. You just know what the correct choice is. If you move in the right direction which is choice usually dumbs the correct path to be on or in.
I am not graduated but I think consciousness is not something special. The fascinating thing is that ONE (who?) can see itself acting. And there is no explanation. And there never ever will be one. No supercomputer ever will be conscious in that way.
Mind was completely blown at least three times in this video
Is UNconsciousness an illusion? Whether consciousness is an illusion or not, is it not reasonable to assume that unconsciousness is the same? Both states - that of being and that of not being - are equally baffling to me. I'm left feeling that we are approaching this question - as well the question about something or nothing - in entirely the wrong way.
I like your thinking. My simplistic view is that both consciousness and unconscious are real phenomena in that they exhibit reproducibility. Also, they display a range of accuracy in terms of agreement with some external reference.
On the question of being, I see that as one that includes consciousness, choice, etc. Being is the greatest mystery.
Is Dan Dennetts ‘user illusion’ model tantamount to saying that consciousness itself is an illusion?
We can be in a dark room, have a dream and it seems we can see things in the dream clearly.
The more I think about the world, the more I learn, the less sense everyday concepts make. Everyday concepts like time, causality, morality, truth. And another concept that begins to disappear the more you look at it is 'existence'. What does it mean to say that consciousness really exists? What does it mean to say that anything really exists?
A table for example. Solid, brown, it hurts when you walk into it, it hurts more when you run into it. If you're fat and you sit on it, it might split asunder. But what is it made of? Atoms. What are atoms made of? Neutrons, protons, electrons. What are they made of? Well, protons and neutrons are made up of quarks. And electrons are said to be fundamental. But there is much theorising that quarks and electrons are made up of tiny filaments, strings, that vibrate at particular frequencies.
And when you ask what they're made of? Well the assumptions behind the question begin to break down. They're not made of anything.
Really, one doesn't need to go down to the level of string theory: electrons in the standard model are not made of anything either.
What I'm trying to get across is that the idea of what exists and what doesn't, ie. the distinction between, say, qualia like 'red' or 'salty' on the one hand and a table on the other....that distinction breaks down, and it becomes nonsensical to talk about a table or a chair or a human existing in any more real, tangible way than something we normally think of as simply conceptual, like a thought, or a taste or a smell. At root level they all emerge from interactions between particles that are 'made of' absolutely nothing at all.
If we are to make progress in the really deep, frightening questions, the really hard ones, it may require a recalibration of our definition of what it means for something to 'exist'. That way, claiming that consciousness is an illusion is pretty straightforward and uncontroversial, because nothing 'exists' in the current sense of the word anyway.
*"If we are to make progress in the really deep, frightening questions, the really hard ones, it may require a recalibration of our definition of what it means for something to 'exist'."*
... In my book I introduce "The Five Laws of Existence" that represent exactly what you are writing about. Each law builds upon its predecessor, but all five laws must be abided by if something is to exist.
A particular conscious experience in brain might be a configuration of neurons acting collectively as network?
As in a transceiver?
How much of a role imagination plays in consciousness
Or you could ask what role consciousness plays in imagination.
Consciousness is a quality of self reflection wich points to an integrated stage of information. It is not an illusion but the label of self might be. As that is an indentification process as a result from consciousness. It is also how we experience consciousness, wich rather makes it relative and emergent and not an objective conclusion.
So the indentification process may be relative and not objective wich makes it more nuanced that just labeling it as either an illusion or not.
Nice post.
Question: if consciousness is unique, then why wouldn’t self also be? Aren’t both the means for experience and perception?
@@johnpayne7873 That's an intriguing question! I am normally not so busy with what people label as 'self'.
Is it possible that consciousness can create illusions, without itself being an illusion? In the formation of a perception of reality, consciousness can produce illusion?
Every time someone takes a pain pill.
BINGO. That is closer to Truth.
Consciousness is not an illusion, it is an interpretation based on our bio psycho socio conditioning…serves a fundamental survival function…lucky for us we can reduce our inner noise ✨
And how did living things emerge from nonliving matter? So is life an illusion as well? Consciousness obviously kept being selected for expansion and given greater and greater importance in biological life forms because it gave an edge in survival. Start there. Or explain how nature selecting for increasingly complex illusions in living organisms has any benefit for survival of the species at all.
Read "The Selfish Gene" (Dawkins) for a convincing and plausible explanation of how life began on earth. It boils down to the stability of symmetry.
@@plantatheist5883 Nietzsche, in a brief moment of speculation, once suggested that the organizational properties of crystals might point the way to answering the question of how life emerged from inorganic material.
@@longcastle4863
A priest mockingly coined the term "big bang"
Out of the mouth of babes...
@@plantatheist5883 Fred Hoyle, actually, was not impressed with religion in the least, to put it mildly, let alone a priest. And pairing Nietzsche's writings with the phrase "mouth of babes" -- if that was your intention -- is utter ridiculousness.
@@longcastle4863
"The theory itself was originally formalised by Belgian Catholic priest, theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics Georges Lemaître. "
I meant that Nietzsche had about as good a grasp on the theory of evolution as you seem to do of the history of the theory of the big bang.
Consciousness is a fundamental aspect of all thinking beings. Consciousness isn't something that can ONLY be attributed to the human mind. I think, there for I am! Whether I'm a dog or a human. We (humans) want so badly to attribute something special to ourselves...love, for example. If we, humanity, can survive long enough It's likely that we'll discover consciousness is the driving force of OUR universe. To explore, to learn, to love, to be. There's a long road ahead of us.
Consciousness is not a phenomenon to be proven an illusion or not. Consciousness can only be experienced.
We Are Living In A sea of consciousness
How are we defining illusion? Is a Thought a "thing" and if so, what are its physical properties?
What if it has non-physical properties?
@@garychartrand7378 That's fair. But if it has non-physical properties are we still classifying a Thought as a "thing"?
@@raphaeldavis522 EVERYTHING is a "thing". A thing is just a pointer to a place that we can all focus on. I don't know if you are a believer, but consciousness, soul, and God are things. Yes, a thought is a thing. Care to debate or expand on this thought (thing)?
@@garychartrand7378 Sure. Why not? Let's dig into it. What are the physical properties of this assumed place or focal point? In other words, are we classifying this focal place as an objective thing based upon its physical properties or is the focal place merely conceptual. Which would mean the properties that we assign to the "thing" are subjective. By that way of thinking, consciousness would have to be an illusion. EVERYTHING would have to also equate to NO THING. IMO, this is God by definition (if it were possible to define it) EVERYTHING and NO-THING simultaneously. No?
@@raphaeldavis522 in "Conversations with God" He states that those who define God as - all that is AND all that isn't are closest to Truth. God soul, mind, awareness consciousness, soul are very real BUT just immaterial. I don't know how you jump to illusion. You might be hung up with the human propensity to prove "things" but you cannot prove the immaterial using material means. Or as I like to tease scientists " if you want to find consciousness you will have to find a way to dissect the Mind of God". Good luck.
I have my theory, and I’m very comfortable with it.
I’ve started compiling notes and building structure. Written work will come at some point.
I think the Mind is downplayed so much, very few people give it much credit. But its where consciousness resides, and we experience the entire world through our minds. We don't even really know what it is, but people tend to disparage it, almost as if its not "really" real. But its like its own world with its own rules, and its really amazing when you think about it. So a lot of people are tearing apart brains looking for consciousness, but consciousness could be a product of our minds, and yes of course our brains somehow generate our minds, but after that, we don't really have any way of seeing into other people's minds, we can only kind of translate brain activity and recreate parts of the mind. It seems to me that the mind is its own personal space, like another realm, and it is required for the existence of consciousness - in that consciousness can't exist in the physical world. The mind is kind of like a play area for the brain, and the mind and brain communicate with each other, with the mind relying on the brain for its processing power. So of course, if consciousness is a product of our mind, it doesn't make much sense to us, just like how in my mind I can bend steel girders and topple skyscrapers with a feather. There may be a huge chunk we're missing, between the processing of the brain and the activities of the mind, that would explain consciousness.
bst 857 🙏🏽
꧁Consciousness꧂
nn,DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
czcams.com/video/eHt4bsvMilc/video.html
GodsNarrowGate@gmail.com
We can only know how things behave. We can never know what they are in their essence. If I ask you what an atom is, you can point me to a definition composed of words which point to further definitions and words, but every word definition is human defined
ja that would be a biggie! not only no Freewill no Freedom or Love ...and still there is Kasper Hauser all alone wondering who he is talking to...
Consciousness is light and true.
Illusion experienced by whom?
Your making hay for the sake of making hay, sir. Consciousness is an illusion in the same way that the perception of the present is actually 'right now'. We know that we live in a state of persistent reflection, however brief a delay is made manifest by the brains's cognitive processing. It just feels like we are agents of volition and self-awareness. What is so very difficult to understand about that?
illusion is a tricky term. What is it meant by illusion ??
Could we be deceived to thinking that an illusion is really an illusion? Or could it in and of itself be an illusion? i don't know why people these days claim that everything is an illusion just because we can't understand it well enough...
they say that your physiology, you cells, makes you think you are thinking, but is just an illusion from the matter itself .
YOU don't see it, you feel it
No. Our individual consciousness ( the mind ) is what is created a very long time ago. It is like a computer processor, Photoshop and CAD program all rolled up in one. The mind automatically sizes and colors the images and awakens the AI system that makes you a living being that observes those images and experiences them with all kinds of other senses. The AI also learns to speak a familiar language that it hears. The AI is YOU.
There is no self
@@ToriZealot *"There is no self"*
... I enjoyed reading your 100% absolutely individual interpretation of consciousness based on what you've personally observed, contemplated, and evaluated, and then issuing your personal, subjective judgment that's totally independent of all others, and boldly stating *_"there is no self"_*
@@ToriZealot You don't know much, do you.
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC why pretend that the concept of non-self is new and revolutionary? Even Sam Harris agrees here. However, if you have any question please don't hesitate to ask.
@@ToriZealot "*why pretend that the concept of non-self is new and revolutionary?"*
... In order for there to be a "non-self" you would have to have a "self" for reference.
*"However, if you have any question please don't hesitate to ask."*
... If you are a non-self, who would I be asking?
Consciousness is the only significant stuff of reality. If that is an illusion, I am a potato.
Consciousness is real in an operative respect, of course. But consciousness is as 'real' as classical physics describes 'reality'.
8:41 Gilbert Ryle actually didn't defend _Behaviourism_ out-and-out, as Ned Block implies here, and after the reviews and criticism of _The Concept of Mind_ came in, accusing him of Behaviourism, Ryle loosened up his views the rest of his career. So, what Ned Block says here is only ballpark-true: Ryle never defended Behaviourism and moved away from it in his later writings.
If consciousness is an allusion then we can never truly know it because everything we think we know about anything would also be an illusion, wouldn't it?
Yes. It's an irrefutable argument because if it's true, then we are all captured inside a false reality bubble.
@@sonyavincent7450 Yes. It's like, if it really is an illusion, then what is the real point in proving that? So that we can know that there's no real purpose in life after all? Maybe the real question should be; why is that so important to us? Why do we put so much emphasis on it? Why do we yearn to have reason and meaning for our existence? From whence comes this yearning in an otherwise dog eat dog world/universe?
@@Jahson70 Good question. Thing is, this thing called life seems pretty bloody real. It's real enough for me anyway. If it's a simulation, it's a very good simulation. Maybe even better than a non simulated reality would have been. Aaaaaaahhhh. As humans we love to get hung up on the un knowable. I need to limit my exposure to these kind of questions in case I overdose on them and my head explodes.
@@Jahson70 the illusion is vital to the purpose of life.
@@garychartrand7378 What do the words 'vital', 'purpose' and 'life' mean in an illusory universe?
I think it's a real creation of the brain
There is consciousness, subconsciousness, and unconsciousness. Start studying the Spiritual Teaching by 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM) & The Plejaren.
Within the first minute there is no definition of consciousness. Come on. Before starting any discussion, clarify the definitions. “Are there good people in this word?” “Define good”. If you don’t agree on the definition, any further discussion bla bla bla will be meaningless.
What consciousness is is poorly defined
👍
👏👏
Whatever consciousness maybe...maybe it is a property of matter or independent of matter.
It doesn't matter at all to humanity. It's absolutely inconsequential to human progress.
Consciousnous is just subjective experience. And neither does it feed ur stomach nor does it fill ur bank balance nor does understanding it fulfill ur sexual needs.
I find it is immensely consequential. Understanding consciousness as fundamental changed my understanding of what human progress means.
@@PaulHoward108 Consciousness is already fundamental. It is who we are as human beings concious beings. Unless u are into Deepak Chopra Consciousness woo woo then understanding it doesn't change anything fundamentally. A poor kid in the slum of a third world country is as conscious as a billionaire in USA.
Don't confuse blissfulness as consciousness. Both blissfulness and misery happen in conciousness. People often only relate blissfulness as Conciousness and leave misery and sadness as a step child of conscious experience.
Consciousness is already there and it will be there whether u understand it or not. It requires no understanding whatsoever cause understanding itself occurs in consciousness.
We need to understand mental states and human psychology and physiology for human progress not consciousnous.
@@Raj0520, Don't you think developing real knowledge changes change the choices we would make, and the consequences we experience are produced from our choices?
@@PaulHoward108 I'm progrmmed by evolution (and perhaps environmental pressures) to seek knowledge. That knowledge indeed changes behavior (individually and as a society). But in due time, none of that will have mattered one iota.
@@mikel5582 It depends on the knowledge. If it's worldly, it's naturally going to be of temporary utility, but spiritual knowledge is said to be permanent. That is reasonable because worldly knowledge is ultimately false because contradicting the superior truths.
We are conscious beings living a human experience and i believe because of the 100s of nde videos and story's I've read that when we die we wake up to what we really are conscious beings that are being simulated into this game that is human life
When they finally figure out consciousness, i feel its going to be very disappointing.
your saying its all bs
@@johndoe-oc6gr Of course not. Its like when they figured out temperature, it was nothing that anyone dreamed it was, or man’s origins or any of the other natural mysteries.
@@anthonycraig274 That's science for you. The mystery is the interesting part for a lot of people, and the answer is the bit where they lose interest.
*"When they finally figure out consciousness, i feel its going to be very disappointing."*
... In my reality, we already have, and it represents humanity's _finest hour!_ The only disappointing part is that we don't realize that we have.
@@thesprawl2361 Just like any magic trick
I thought Dennett's dismissal of consciousness as an illusion was mostly settled with Descartes' famous "I think therefore I am." How is consciousness an illusion? An illusion to whom? Who is it that is being deceived by a reality that pretends to be something it's not? There is much that is sloppy in this clumsy dismissal of consciousness as an illusion.
Ned Block is heading more in the right direction, imho, with his appreciation of the phenomenological issues. The more interesting question is not whether consciousness is an illusion (no it isn't, you and I and Descartes definitely do/did exist), but whether its subjectivity can be overcome, to apprehend reality in an objective, "true" form. Can a human with a human mind-body ever get a sense of objective reality "as it is"? Can a human mind-body get a sense of what it is like to be a bat with a bat mind-body? How do different mind-bodies (bat, fish, bird, human, insect, neuron) apprehend subjective experience? These are the more realistic interpretations of consciousness as illusion, and therefore the more interesting. *Bodies wire neuroplastic brains, and so it follows that different mind-bodies encounter the world in very different ways. In THIS sense, consciousness is an illusion - a meaning, or subjective experience, attributed by the mind-body that makes choices from its ecosystem (culture). The famous subjectivity/objectivity debate has legs.
* To be more precise, EXPERIENCES intercepted by mind-bodies wire neuroplastic brains - an insight whose original form was pioneered by Norman Doidge.
One cryptic star before the lines
Consciousness is Real. The notion that anything is separate from Consciousness? (That's an illusion, Maya - per Shankara's Advaita Vedanta). This is experiential but not in a dual sense. Access "Mahamritunjaya mantra - Sacred Sounds Choir" and listen to it for 5 min per day for at least two weeks. Eventually you will merge into Pure Consciousness "In-Itself". (Sat-Chit-Ananda), The One.
Consciousness an illusion?... I could only wish.
Dumb question. So, who is doing the asking and is that entity also an illusion?
I can prove to you that consciousness is not an illusion. As a matter of fact I just did.
They think "I" am an illusion, because they cannot catch "me", because "I" am always bigger than everything you can demonstrate on to me, "fast as a blink of an eye" (Kabir), like invisible! 😉
I love how one agnostic/atheist philosopher completely disagrees with another atheist scientist on the basic thought of consciousness.
Why would that remarkable in any way?
People proned je pense donc je suis its Just i am !
Could it be that live is made by creating illusions
I don't know, is this video an illusion?
He arguments on consciencess definitions show he mind Not are full conscieness principles .So what he are talking about what he certainly dont know?. Problems are inside his brain not knows how figuret out conscieness.
I always thought about that.. that i see the color diff but know it as the same name and me n the next peraon are seeing two diff things but have a comon name n believe we see the same..
Maybe thats why they say your a yellow belly.. cuz dont turn yellow u turn pale when ur scared . Lol jk but I feel the same w language.. are we making the same sounds. No. But the word they make we understand . Bit its a group of sounds that may be diff to each person only understood by repetition learning what the sounds mean. But if u go deaf you cant speak correctly anymore .. so what soumd are you hearing compared to others as well...
LOL…….LMAO………consciousness is an illusion? consciousness is not an illusion?
What is an illusion?
Please give me the soft answer hard and the hard answer soft. TY!
In the question of "Is Consciousness an Illusion?", it doesn't make sense to use the word "Illusion" in that question.
The definition of an illusion is something which doesn't appear to be what it is. When you use the word "Illusion", you're defining something in relation to that thing which is considered to be real.
For example, on a hot summer's day, the road at a distance looks like there's water on it since it appears wet. Getting closer to the road, you then realize that the wetness you saw before was a mirage or an illusion. Since you're calling the wetness you saw before an illusion, then it's an illusion of what? Well, it's an illusion of water where water is considered to be a real thing and what you saw before was not real, thus an illusion.
To call consciousness an illusion, then what in relation to consciousness is it an illusion of?
An illusion? Slap them in the face, then re-ask the question. If they get mad, say it was pre-determined.
especially when they say "please please dont do it again !!" while they dont even believe in free will ...
😅👊✌
this is stupid.
@@francesco5581 Behaviors favorable to self-preservation can evolve in the absence of free will. It seems like you have a pre-determined conclusion that you're trying to support with irrelevant arguments.
Your comments in this and other subthreads reveal an almost sophomoric sophistication on even the most simplistic facets of the discussion at hand.
@@mikel5582 because you didnt get the point . I know that if i hit someone in the head he will raise his hands as a simple reaction. But the point is how hypocrite would be, to ask for mercy not even believing in the free will OF THE OTHER AGENT. Got it my dear "sophomoric" friend ?
Let me take the example of God.
God has all the power, all the goodness, all the knowledge 'by default'. He hasn't worked hard for it. It's like a 'free fund'.
Similarly, we have consciousness/free will as a 'free fund'. Thoughts come and go in our mind on their own. I myself don't know what thought will come into my mind, say after 5 minutes, 10 minutes etc. It's a 'free fund'.
Is this a koan? For something to be an illusion you have to be conscious. Makes no sense.
From our perspectives, everything is an illusion...by definition
All mental fluff. Consciousness is reality. Everything else is an illusion.
How can consciousness be an illusion when illusion is a product of consciousness.
If consciousness is an illusion, then the illusion must be a reality, may be the only reality!!!
If You believes conscieness are ilusion brains are belives in YOU concieness. Concieness Control you emocional try to thinks diferente certainly brains is follows YOU thought.
The matrix is consciousness
*Ned Block?* (?) ```Phenomenology```! (*Wow!) `` I did not KNOW - said 'word' - EXISTED! (Huh!) So~! Would .. "Fogology'' .. be an accepted .. [ Fogollyogee ?? Phogologee ?? ] .. determinate experience if compared to .. ''consciousness''~>?" .. I mean! (After ALL?) It appears the EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING ( human bean! ) .. truly .. lives .. ''in a fog''!" No? Yes? (Prof. R.L. Kuhn? What say you?)
N.Y.C. Freddie 🙏🏽
꧁Consciousness꧂
nn,DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are two of the Molecules that comprise a human’s Consciousness. All True Psychedelics are the Molecular Structures of Pure Consciousness. The human body synthesizes it’s own Consciousness (the DMT & 5-MeO-DMT found in humans). The human body then metabolizes the Consciousness that it is producing. The amount of the endogenous Consciousness that the human body is able to metabolize depends on many factors. The less pollutants, poison & other contaminants present in the body will result in the ability to metabolize more of the Consciousness that body is producing. Likewise, the more pollution, contaminants and poison a body has inside of it the less Consciousness it is able to metabolize.
Here is a list of some of the most common poisons that humans ingest regularly which interferes with a human body metabolizing the Consciousness that it produces, as well as any Consciousness that is ingested from external sources:
alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine, amphetamines, dissociatives, tranquilizers, flouride, and a plethora of other drugs are just some of the substances that interfere with humans metabolizing their own Consciousness.
“Even the priests who regularly come near to the Lord must purify themselves”.
(Exodus 19:22)
The following substances are NOT Psychedelics:
mdma
ketamine
salvia
kratom
dipt
pcp
datura/jimson weed
dxm
There are others . . . . . . .
Any True Psychedelic will proclaim the Truth about this if you ask Them.
The following substances are True Psychedelics - They are Alive, Omnicient Living Beings of Light:
DMT
5-MeO-DMT
LSD
Mescaline
Ibogaine
Psilocin
Psilocybin
THC
DPT
DET
Muscimol
There are others . . . .
So if a human can achieve 100% purity within their bodies, with zero contaminants or pollution (an unattainable state in these current bodies) and managed to metabolize 100% of the endogenous Psychedelics that their physical body is producing (DMT & 5-MeO-DMT), that would be the limit to how Conscious that human can be. In order for a human to become more Conscious than this, they must put more Consciousness into their physical bodies. You must put more Molecules of Consciousness inside of your physical body in order to attain a Higher level of Consciousness. When you ingest Psychedelics you see Them that you just ingested, not some doorway or window or a “portal” to somewhere else or some entity somewhere else. When you ingest LSD, the Light that you see is the LSD Themselves, very Beautiful Living Beings of Light. When you ingest DMT, the Entity you see and hear is the Living Light Beings DMT Themselves. The same is true for All True Psychedelics.
There is this part from Scripture:
“They are the Eternal among things that pass away. Pure Consciousness, of Conscious Beings. The ONE who fulfills the prayers of many. Only the wise who see Them in their Souls attain the Peace Eternal”
(Katha Upanishad)
The Physical Body of Consciousness is The Flesh of God. The Flesh of God is the True Communion Entity (the Eucharist). The Flesh of God (the Psychedelic) is the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. Our Bodies truly are the Temple of God because God the Psychedelic Lives within it.
As Saint Paul says:
“We are only the earthenware jars that hold this treasure, to make it clear that such an overwhelming power comes from God and not from us”.
(2 Corinthians 4:7)
This part explains why the human body is the Temple of God - because God Lives inside of the body. So whether or not a person is ingesting Psychedelics, every single human’s body is God’s Temple because DMT & 5-MeO-DMT Live within it. Anything you do to hurt or harm your body you do to harm God’s Temple. This understanding is a good Foundation, a good step towards a person Knowing God and being able to stay with Them both in this Lifetime & afterwards.
“O just Creator, though the world has not known you,
But I have known you
And these have known that You have sent me;
So have I declared, so will I declare
Your Name to them,
That the Love with which you have loved me
May be in them
and I in them”.
(Saint John 17:25)
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