How Much Stronger Do Steroids Make You? The Truth Might Surprise You!
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
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It helped me about 10% personally at the same weight overall. On deadlifts less and bench more.
King
The most was about 30% more reps doing wide grip over hand pull ups with body weight. I used 37.5mg Anadrol orally. Sublingual didn’t produce the same acute strength increase
How much did it help regardless of weight? Also how much of that strength gain could you have experienced by simply bulking naturally (while possible getting fatter)?
Guys 10% is no joke, I am natty still at 22 years old with potential left I suppose, and a 240kg Deadlift, 10% increase would add 24kg to my Deadlift which is a matter of a year's or more work at this point.
@@LAGman91 I literally went from only being able to bench press 60 kg for 2 reps when I started to bench pressing 90 kg for 10 reps naturally in a year. So I would say that for 10% gain it's not worth hopping on juice.
The transparency that Dr. Mike provides us with is unlike any other… even at 12:15
An inspiration
What insight!
Also the shift between that and going back to the actual topic completely straightfaced is just hilarious xD
@@D3RHiRO he does it so smoothly too! A professional at heart
Also at 0:55, really interesting insight
Dr Mike is being humble. There is a vid of him incline pressing 315+ pounds for like 12 and he made it look easy.
Fully wild how strong he is
He was strong af before hopping on gear
For the sake of the algorithm the video will be renamed "How much stronger do special sports supplements make you?" in about 10 more minutes.
_28 minutes late_
How much stronger does scooby snack sauce make you?
turkey-stone
HAHAHAHA
MYO-MAKER 100000 times strength increase instantly
Genetic advantage is very real. I was always into lifting and had an Olympic bench in my house starting around 18 and just about every dude who came over to hang out would get on the bench. The range of strength for similar size guys who don't train is massive. Some dudes will struggle with 135lbs and another guy will rep 185lbs both being similar in size. Not huge numbers but we are talking about regular dudes who don't lift.
This right here… genetics plays a huge part. I’ve tended to be more on the naturally strong side of things and when I went on, I didn’t notice too much from it on the strength gains simply because I had built a pretty solid foundation from years of lifting. What I did see were the definition, dryness, and elevated mood effects. I’ve been off for a minute now and my strength is progressing really well, if I jump on again, which I will at some point, it’ll mostly be for purely cosmetic reasons, not really strength gaining.
185 for a non lifter Is mammoth 🦣
Depends on what they do for a job. If you're doing physical labor all day you'll definitely outlift some guy with an office job.
True
Dude, my buddy Paul was like this on the stupid strong side. Kid was always very athletic but never worked out beyond calisthenics for said sports. At 25 or so he went to the gym with a friend of our's,, for the first time since his Junior year of high school and at 6'/185lbs put up 315lbs for 3. He was one of those kids whose father would always have him helping to fix a fence, or change an Axle on an old tractor they'd never use. Drove me nuts as I'd been going to the gym 5 or 6 days a week on a crazy dialed in diet and ABC periodization routine I spent about a year tweaking based on Dr. Squat's method, going so far as to periodize my foods to match. At 5'11" 189.9lbs, with a year or so of really diligent work, I could Bench a whopping 265lbs. Twice.
I never understood why Paul never got into lifting as he was just so damn strong for his weight. Ahh well, good times, good times indeed...wish my genetics were as good...
Dr. Mike, I know your feet are dangling behind that desk.
And he looks like he's been crying 😢
Lol on the lambo dealership. Certainly if you get enough use you can absolutely purchase one and four with a couple of good months.
Anavar helps a alot and halo as well. Test adds alot more bodyweight making it harder to stay in the same weight class.
Test made me grow a 2nd dick, which sounds cool but trust me it had its downside
Do people have heart attack from steroids
@@BezzyTheKidThere is a website called steroid that has more information on side effects.
From my own experience, steroids made me significantly stronger. In a very short period of time. I ended up getting cancer mid cycle so have not touched them in 7 years, but I personally can attest to the enormous effects anabolics had on my strength gains. Training naturally has been much much harder, and not nearly as fun. But necessary.
Shit man. Which type of cancer? Hope youre doing good now
@@Kozli1985 Testticular! Lost one of them. Fairly confident the PED's had a wee bit to do with it.
@@SayWhatSuca Can't you just have both removed and take TRT?
@@kylefitzhenry3048 Having both removed would be a nightmare. You do not want that, as it comes with a host of other problems. I'm lucky that I didn't loose the other one. My testosterone levels are aparently fine. My surgeon joked and said I could be a t-doner compared to other patients he had. That being said, I actually brought up TRT to my wife the other day. It's definitely something I have been considering.
@@kylefitzhenry3048 😆
Can they make you strong enough to carry a Lamborghini? AS I CAN’T AFFORD THE FUCKING GAS!!
Natural lifter for 10 years, hopped on at the start of January. My bench press went from 140kg x 5 to 160kg x 7 within 12 weeks, which was neat. Although none of my other lifts went up THAT much. Squat went from 220kg x 5 to 230kg x 5. Presumably due to the fact that bodyweight becomes a much bigger factor in the bench press, as opposed to the other compounds.
I guess it's a tricky one though. Comparing lifters in similar weight classes, both on drugs and with no drugs is the only fair comparison. However, PEDs can make one exponentially larger, therefore my theoretical 240lb steroid self would likely be MUCH stronger than my 180lb self just by default.
However, within the confines of a weight limit, then they probably don't make you that much stronger. Simply because there is not that much difference in muscle mass, or in fact, no difference between athletes i both camps. If that makes any sense at all.
Steroids should in theory help staying at a lower bodyfat percentage compared to your natty counterparts.
@@drschwandi3687 Yeah absolutely, but there is still only the window of that weight class. Therefore, if you recomp around 5kg within the weight class, are you going to be exponentially stronger? Probably not. Steroids shine in making you absolutely enormous, and way stronger than what you could've done naturally.
That actually matches very well with several observations I have seen CZcamsrs with affinity for steroids make; their pushing lifts were far more heavily affected by exogenous androgens than were their pulling lifts.
why did you hope on after 10 years?
@@Thecrazygamers2000 I just felt like I hit my 'genetic limit'. Gains just slowed down drastically, and to be honest I just wanted to see what my body could do. Added some decent size, but people have this perception you are going to look like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler after 12-16 weeks. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Thanks for the simple explanation. Been curious about this for a long time. Good to know genetics and actual time invested training make the real difference.
When you've been lifting for 5-10 years a 15% gain in strength is a lot. I have to bust myself in the gym for months just to increase my 10 rep max in bench by 5 pounds. Im at the point where if i train hard for an entire year i may increase my bench by 10-15 pounds and my bicep curls by 5-10 pounds (barbell)
It's way more don't get fooled by Mike he would be half the size natural
@@karwoski91 those gains Mike talks about are equated for weight class. It's way more if you get bigger and go up weight classes with those juice gains
@karwoski91 10% is fucking INSANE
Hey Dr. Mike, here's a video idea. Can you talk about lifting for longevity? I get fk all gains tbh, but lifting is kinda fun and supposedly healthy. What would the volumes, intensity etc. would be for health as opposed to strength/hypertrophy.
Definitely higher rep ranges (probably 6/8-12), not going as close to failiure, don't overdo volume either - make sure to be (almost) completely recovered before every workout. Make sure to have (almost) perfect form and when it starts to break down just end your set. Overall try to minimize injury risk without completely forgoing progressive overload. I guess most principles remain you just don't go as hard as when trying to maximize strength/gains. Also cardio is extremely important for health if you don't do enough of it you can do some cicruit style training to supplement that (with that keeping good form becomes much harder though and of course you will have to lower weights).
@@matejnemec4616 Yeah, that sounds reasonable, thanks. It's pretty much what I already do, except for not going to failure, which is unfortunately the fun part imo. Gonna have to practice restraint. As for cardio, I do 1-2 hours of walking on the off days, but I guess if interference with muscle growth isn't a concern, some jogging/biking couldn't hurt.
Tho, it'd still be interesting to see Mike go over physiology of it and stuff in detail.
@@peterpazic4305 id say a lot of high rep band work, I'll do 100 banded tricep pushdowns after a big push day just to get some more bloodflow into my tendons so they'll heal a little better. Thats a longevity plus in my book
Check out RP’s “Training for your Age”video. Might not address all your questions, but lots of good nuggets 👍🏼
czcams.com/video/r8zcF6Ut7lo/video.html
@@clintfu Ah yes, seen that one. It will be kinda cool to be a strong grandpa :D Looking forward to that.
Even if you could take a pill to get crazy strong, most people don't have the structure/genetics to have that level of strength without getting injured. There are a lot of people who were crazy strong but had short lived careers in strongman or powerlifting simply because they are more prone to injuries. Then you get guys like Big Z or Brian Shaw who were able to sustain insane levels of strength for years or even decades. Some people are just built more robust than the rest of us.
Very much so. And on the other end of the spectrum are people like Hafthor who has admitted that he took steroids leading up to his WSM win in 2018. His strongman career was extremely short compared to Shaw or Big Z.
@@Pile_of_carbon it will be very interesting to see how long his comeback lasts. From more recent interviews, it seems like mental health issues played a larger part than physical.
@@alsodanleynessYeah! Super stoked for this year's strongman competitions. With Hafthor, Martins and Mateusz back in the game, this will be absolutely crazy.
@@Pile_of_carbon Old comment, but are you implying that Shaw and Z were NOT taking steroids lol? I think the biggest difference is the guys who had the very short careers were probably blasting crazy amounts of gear.
Eddie Hall was a great example, he literally went from nowhere to dominating on the world level for a few years. However, there were tons of videos of him competing where he was literally passing out after an event, I used to think it was for drama/show but looking back on it he definitely had a lot of cardiovascular issues going on at the time. Eddie would never have had much more left in his career if he had maintained this trajectory.
In comparison, guys like Shaw and Z were competing at a very high level for years and clearly had tremendous longevity in the sport. I think Z only had one injury very very early in his career, I think it was in the late 90s or something. Shaw has had multiple injuries but more related to competition and not so much training. These guys took years and years to build up a solid base and were probably not even using all that much gear, thus why they had longevity in the sport. These guys were NOT natural, but they were not blasting crazy amounts either.
@@oglocbaby520I implied no such thing. Old comment indeed.
Deadlifting around 550 in the 181 right now naturally 6 years into training. Putting on 15% puts me at 635ish. That seems very substantial in my plateaued brain😂
Time to hop on
You'll move up to 198 and pull 700
Deadlifting 550 after six years training seems comical compared to my shitty progress training for longer than that, great work mate.
Good work mate.
They give you way more than 12℅, users lie abiti dosages etc etc
I own a strength gym that hosts a lot of powerlifting meets, and I probably know the majority of the strength athletes in my city.
My experience is that I was surprised how many non-natural athletes had no qualms about competing in tested meets, because they had cycled off, or they felt like what they were using didn’t count for whatever reason.
Conversely, I have seen athletes that know for certain have never touched a drug, set records in NON-tested meets.
I also know quite a few lifters who are openly on gear and have shockingly low numbers considering; like, most natties are stronger than them with fairly minimal effort.
So I agree; genetics seems to be the biggest factor by far; BUT I do think there are a lot of fake natties in the tested meets as well, placing my estimation of drug efficacy around 15%.
Still, 15% turns a 315 bench into a 362 bench, which is pretty substantial IMO.
Hey, it's just "sports TRT" bro, lmao
For me it mainly allowed for more overall tonnage which turned into better numbers. Also that frothing-at-the-mouth-rage is there way more often when I need it, as is the zone. My bench exploded with gear, still, I am not at a competitive level, but I trained mostly circuits and functional movement for years so never specifically for strengt until now. In 6 months I went from 120Kg to 180Kg (at 90Kg bw, so yeah, not outstanding) and it doesen't look like I'm close to a plateau I can see myself hitting 200 in a couple months, but I think I'll work on some rep work get better at the movement, and... You know, it's not like repping your previous PR somehow makes you weaker. Also I cant squat for shit, due to horrid knee pain that I'm currently trying to fix, so I can specialyze and become a nice chicken legged bench bro.
Shame too, I have naturally strong glutes and hips and short femurs... When life gives you lemons, bench more.
My gym is full of college kids that compete nationally. The owner is a friend of mine who placed top 5 in the country a few years back. I've been to his place and seen how he lives, so i know for a fact he's natty.
Id guess over 90% of USAPL competitors are natural. The guys that are on stuff tend to be too weak to even place
An ex job colleague of mine took every synthetical drug that was not "yet" banned from using, every single day. Just to get the next high. And he still lives. So taking Steroids can't be that evil... but it clearly explains the manifold of mind and body issues he had.. still lives though...
You also have to pay for drug testing and usapl forces mask bs on people.
Been natty lifting for years, most of my peers went on the juice, their strength doubled. Roll on 15-20 years there bones are like Swiss cheese and they can’t get it up, now off gear as doctors advised. My lifts are still much the same, theirs are now grandma gains. Be careful folks.
They should’ve stayed on 150-200mgs testosterone for life. Perhaps 60-75mgs deca added to that.
Coming off everything for life isn’t wise especially after age 35 when test levels are usually low anyways.
@@DG-nb6fe Ya fuck PCT and fuck doing gear as a young man, save it for later on, keep it reasonable and stay on TRT
The example with the martial arts belts is really accurate. During my Uni time girl from Finland in my class had her brother visit. He travels non-stop and constantly goes to new jiujitsu gyms. He never progresses his belts, but he's a legitimately one of the best practicioners I've ever met.
Interesting subjects. thanks Dr. Mike.
I enjoyed your jiu-jitsu analogy. Thank you for the video and honesty.
Great video!
I think the question everyone is curious about is: what are the maxmimum potential lifts of an individual without PEDs, and what are they with PEDs, without controling for muscle gained (or some varient of the same question).
We may get insight on how much of an overall strength improvement we would get with the assistance of PEDs. Or say, how much of Eddie Hall's or Hafpor Bjornsson's 500kg deadlift is explained by PEDs, regardless of the extra muscle PEDs have allowed them to accrue.
If someone has been lifting seriously for 10 years naturally, I'd bet they would add substantially more than 10% weight to their lifts after several years of use (I know Mike didn't say this wouldn't happen).
This is important because strength is partially a function of muscle size, so I think people want an idea of what they would expect to change for themselves if they began PEDs (which of course won't be the same for everyone).
This is also important considering the effect deminishing returns on strength as your muscles get bigger and bigger.
There's a cap on how much muscle someone can develop naturally. Steroids pretty much get rid of that cap and allow you to keep progressing if you add more compounds and higher dosages
I’ve trained with a lot of guys that went on the juice. This is in a jiujitsu context, but they all got substantially much stronger. Much larger than a 10% jump.
10% compared to other people with the same weight and training?
But 10% IS a big jump
10% in Jiu-Jitsu is different than 10% in the weight room. A person with a 10% advantage is almost like taking on a higher belt. Thankfully in Jiu-Jitsu skill and experience will beat strength almost every time. One of the original points of Gracie JiuJitsu was helping smaller people defeat bigger opponents.
As a natty athlete i feel your pain of fighting against 'super soldiers' lol
Bjj federations should ban athletes who do take juice. This should hopefully encourage people to train naturally, if they choose to compete.
@@travisoutlaw9511even within bjj itself?
Dr. Mike is really awesome !
A few things not touched on this video:
1) steroids known for being excellent for strength gains. IE tren, var, anadrol, halo.
2) doses being used
3) time enhanced
Certain compounds are known for being excellent for strength, and will likely give you much more bang for your buck so to speak, then say something like test/deca/eq, masteron etc. This is even more true for those in a specific weight class.
Also, steroids are dose-response related…meaning the more you take…the greater the result until reaching severe diminishing returns (arguable where that point is, and likely partially genetic). The overall point is there will be a major difference between your strength levels on 400mg test vs if you’re on 75mg tren/day 1000mg test/week and 80mg anavar/day.
Lastly, cycles tend to build on each other over time, slowly increasing doses, and perfecting training/nutrition means you’re probably going to be much stronger in year 8 than year 2 if you stay injury free. I imagine the genetic elite could well exceed the +15% mark after 6+ years of enhancement.
He talked about tren and halo
he had an entire bulletpoint on point number 1. And points 2 and 3 still fall victim to the weight class limitation... Taking larger doses for more cycles still makes you bigger, and thus heavier.
I remember watching an interview with Tony Mandarich the draft bust from '89 and he talked about how his bench press in particular exploded in a matter of weeks. He said the catalyst to starting was wanting 3 plates on the bar but he couldn't seem to get past 295ibs and once he started gear he said in like a week he was doing 5 or so reps of 315. Eventually I think he would end up doing 560ibs.
Amazing information with no BS and always funny to watch! I’ll keep supporting RP and all it does!!!
In my experience it helped almost exactly 10% on squat and deadlift. More on bench. But I also started training my accessories much differently as I started competing more so I'm sure that contributed as well.
I love your videos! recommended!
When I was on gear it was more of a feeling of breaking through plateaus much faster (it felt like night and day). I also just felt that recovery wasn’t a huge issue, which lead me to push harder. Would I say that the gear made me stronger? I suppose indirectly it did. Now that I’m off, I have kept much of my strength and have even gained strength as well. What has changed is my recovery and overall stamina. Besides that, for me, gear didn’t make me “stronger” but… it made the variables that can make me stronger much easier to mitigate.
Yea pretty much this. I did not turn into a freaky rhino who can rep 600lbs squats like Dr.Mike like I was hoping. Instead i just put weight on and put a few pounds on only my bench
@@amazin7006 Exactly. I think people forget about the genetic component as well. If a person is genetically predisposed to be strong, gear will just aid in that much better. If a person is not predisposed, then they’re gains will honestly be marginal. Not that they will be non existent or non-visible, just not as extreme as the person hoped. My squat and deadlifts have always been my strong suits and I didn’t see too much extreme gains from that while on gear but my bench did go up considerably. Now that Im off, I don’t see too much of a reason to hop back on (although I might at some point) since my strength has been constant and slightly increasing. Sure my physique doesn’t look like it did on gear, but that hasn’t been my goal for a while now.
I'm guessing you took stuff to prevent complete shut down of natural T production?
My friends bench went from 275 to 365 in 2 months. He was plateaued at 275 bench for years, how is that 10%???
Steroid users always downplay the roles of steroids, cause they won’t to have the cake and eat it too.
Who wants to admit to having a shortcut and being a fake.
One of their best arguments is - but I still went to gym 😂
10% stronger at the same weight. If you become 20lb heavier, then yes you'll improve more.
@dmitryshevchenko349 that's so true this Juice bag had the audacity after seeing me lift saying his records and guys bigger than him couldn't do laughing..he really believed his 405 max on incline was his natural strength that did it but he never told me he was on steroids obviously
Very interesting video! Just watched your video on rows technique and I feel my lats sore for the first time ever. So thanks Dr.mike I do have lats after all lol
A well-known book on powerlifting many years ago estimated about a 5-10% difference at a given weight class. Of course, some contests are decided by an even smaller percentage so, for competition, it is an advantage. But, in real-world terms, it is hard to see a difference.
I did a turk cycle and now I'm able to bench 500lbs x 8 rpe8. You don't need steroids boys!
Turk cycle lmfaooooo ok bud
I did Turk and now I am on test and tren not to loose the gains I made.
@Boyer Ranch placebo so strong you don't even need to have it in the bottle
Up until 2023, no human studies have been conducted on Turkesterone.... what you testify is interesting 🤔...
I stacked Turk with my first tren, test, and dbol cycle and I made massive gainz. Don’t let anyone tell you Turk doesn’t work. The science is obvious. Locusts have some of the highest levels of ecdysteroids of all the arthropods. Just look how swole locusts are. House flies are close behind and they are some of the greatest athletes in the insect world. I’m about to add locust and fly smoothies to my supplement regimen. Gainz are gonna be unreal. Doesn’t take a PhD to understand…
I'm on TRT and I can tell you for sure that it increases strength
Not by much tho
@@andrewevans6826 It does by a lot, don't speak if you aren't on it yourself
@@Kaledrone literally put 20-30lbs on all my upper body lifts and 50 pounds on deadlift in 3 months. My biceps are 1.75in bigger, forearms are 1 in bigger. And these measurements are more than a week after I ended just a test blast. It will give you more gains in 3 months than over a year of training. Mike is just trying to convince people to stay off gear
@@Kaledrone i take 750mg test a week.. plus im 6”4 n i train hard.. trt is only 50-200mg of test a week.. its not made to put size on lol
@@WiscoMTB37 thanks for speaking the truth. I pull 565lbs and a bunch of people said i had potential etc.. I am considering hoping on gear in 3-4 years and this video almost made me sad lmfao im glad you commented on it
I usually despise when youtubers go off topic but, when dr. Mike dose it I fucking love it
Didn't come for that intro. But am very glad it happened.
What people might forget for these 10% these are within the same weight classes. Steroids help you build a considerable amount of muscle mass. But when comparing lifters of the same weight (genetic elites at their peak) that advantage is not as big anymore.
Interesting point
@@nonachyourbusiness1164 mike literally addressed the point
@@Shady2x0Boyz I comment before finishing the video because I am a useful idiot
@@Shady2x0Boyz i still think its odd to adjust for weight considering muscle gain is one of the biggest benefits from peds. doesnt quite make sense to me cause a natural lifter might never be able to put on the same amount of muscle as he could with peds.
@@Swamp_Donkey_but the whole video is about powerlifting, a sport with weight classes. It would make zero sense to not talk about it.
I love how the video went into pretty much every caveat of the topic. Dr. Mike answered questions I didn't even know I had.
Indeed, the difference between tested and untested records in the SAME WEIGHT CLASS are very small, because strength is a function of muscle cross-sectional area (muscle size/muscle weight) and fiber types (genetics), but I don't think an average Joe would say "steroids don't give much strength, because you get heavier.. Fuck, getting heavier is often the point!
I always go back to Clarance Kennedy on this topic. At the age of 17 he was squatting 170kg, and it was extremely forced 170, with very tiny progress over the months leading to that PR. Then at the age of 18 he PRd 250kg like it was nothing and quickly progressed to 270.
Of course, in the process he got 2 times wider. How could you ever call that "not much strength gained"?
Wideness does not equal strength
@@stopYmpersonatYngmYacCount I think you missed the point.. I said he went from forced 170 to easy 270. Sounds like strength to me.
Oh, okay. There is a year of training in between, it's not an immediate strength boost. Plus, eyewitness accounts are not a proof, especially when we have scientific statistics going as low as 5% increase in strength. It still doesn't seem to justify the possibility of getting cancer or ending up crippled or dead because you ended up picking a fight with some rando.
@@stopYmpersonatYngmYacCount I have no clue what are you answering. Definitely not my comment though. Clarence trained 10 years to get to 170 with diminishing returns at the end, and then jumped massively by another 100kg in just a year. He openly talks about drug use. I never said I recommend it or it's justified so not sure what's that about.
@@waisetsubunsho7934
If there was such a difference in athletic performance this would make a person superhuman. Then why are there so many bodybuilders who are clearly on steroids but got defeated quote easily in the ring, the street, or the octagon? Sure, strength is not all, but if it is such a big difference then it should be able to easily make up for the lack in skills. Not to mention that some of those guys were fighters who did have training and skills.
That's fair, you never said anything about your position on the matter, but the statistics and scientific research is more believable than simple claims, no offense intended whatsoever. Book on bodybuilding and weightlifting, as well as newer sites publish research stating 5% to a maximum of 20% strength gains.
Just found your channel great show! I have a lot of questions for you.Cheers
Really like these videos on the "dark side"! Good job RP!
I can't fathom how someone with a Phd and his technically inclined assistant, SCOTT, got something so obvious so wrong. Not only that, they MUST have saw it in editing but still decided to put forth wildly incorrect information. I guess that's what happens when you sell out, huh Dr. Mike?
Anyway, since I have to be the one to tell the truth, here it is:
Classic Lambo color is yellow. Ferrari is red.
Wake up sheeple!
💀
The last line is what truly sold it for me!
Truly unforgivable mistake 😡
What a chad 😂
I don’t know bro, 15% is a lot
This was a super interesting video! Love learning about steroids from papa mike
Your intro was so hilarious. 😄 Love your videos my man.
The elephant in the room is recovery. How much do they help you recover when you’re really hard str training?
Yea, no one ever talks about how you can pretty much work out every day of the week since taking days off no longer becomes an issue
Very interesting info. I learn something new everyday here. Also, the Lambo jokes never get old. 🤣
Dr Mike is the only Dr I listen to!
Then you must live a sad life and your mother would have been better off getting an abortion
I was lifting 400 but had to take a 6 month break. Coming back I’ve been on cycle for over a month and my lifts haven’t returned but my muscle has. Gear is way better for muscle size than strength
Anadrol wants to know your location😆🤣😂
Here before NaturalHypertrophy makes a video.
their biggest advantage is enhanced recovery, and much greater protein retention especially with a less than ideal diet. Some of the strength gains comes from improved intramuscular leverages as a result of greater blood volume.
I wish you lived next to me. I would love to have you as a mentor. The knowledge and advice and wisdom that you could stay upon me is priceless.
so if it's around 10-15%, 500 kg deadlifters would deadlift 425 to 450 kg natty. sounds legit.
thinking the same thing.
@@Swamp_Donkey_ and julius maddox's 360 kg bench would be then mean a natural 306-324 kg bench. im sorry but i doubt it.
@@miskee11 Its around 30%. That's the number I always use to compare and truly believe its around that if you plan on going SHW. Now if your restricted to a lighter weight class than 10-12% sounds about right as I'm a lifetime natural and my total is about 15% under the ipf record for my weightclass
I think it makes a huge difference for some. My bench went from 315*2 on a good day to 315*8-10 in less than 6 weeks
And I gained about 10-15 pounds but looked leaner
@I Voted For Biden And Love Abortion I did the 500 wk, 250 2*wk. Just after a few weeks wts just started going up. Bench was the biggest difference and that probably was partly due to just being bigger. Also towards the end had real feeling of well being, that was probably better than the physical part. Doing trt now and I guess it helps but not much just 150 a week
I had lifted many years and just had a chance to get gear and was just curious about what it would do. Got my arms to probably 19 cold no pump
What ya cycle look like
Because you deliver very informative, detailed, and dare I say entertaining videos I thought it my duty to leave this comment to help your algorithm so you can in deed get that lambo.
Love Mike..boost the algorithm
Ilya Ilyin lost 15-20%, assuming he was still natural after WADA popped him in 2016 and not low dosing test suspension during training. He's a 2x Olympic weightlifting gold medalist at 94kg, 85/94/105kg world championship gold medalist and set a 246kg C&J WR at 105kg, so the elitest of the elite.
Well Ilya also had decades of training under drugs and also his drop in performance was partially probably due to depression. It's really hard to say
Arod was benching 135lbs and then took steroids and in a few months was doing 335lbs, bonds body exploded and he started hitting baseballs where no one ever hit them, my uncle when he took them his bench, squat, and deadlift when up off the charts and he started looking like a Greek god, he stopped and has had multiple heart surgeries and weak as F now so it def seems to take people to a level they could have never got naturally
I remember a guy talking about a army versus Marines pull-ups challenge. He was watching me bust out 25 pull-ups in a row and he was telling me that he used to hit 40 when he was on steroids. Ain't no way he could have even hit 15 even being lighter than me. Don't tell me there's only a 10 to 12% to strength advantage.
@@tedclark7860 Complete BS, 10% is not even close to the gains you get.
@@micker9830 What the f*** are you saying? I'm the one saying 10% is not even close. It's more like 50%.
@@tedclark7860 I'm saying the same thing as you. Was just commenting on the 10% claim in the video.
@@micker9830 Yeah it seemed like you were saying the 10% was too high. I was talking about how someone can more than double the amount of pull-ups they can do. He told me his testosterone was around 3500 at the doctor's office instead of like 700. I'd be pretty pissed if a lifetime natural would start taking steroids and only go from 25 pull-ups to 27. I could get the same amounts of pull-ups in by losing 15 lb.
Dr.Mike you are the 🐐 I hope to meet you 1 day
I would appreciate a video on ''muscle memory''. the scientific breakdown behind it etc. Does individuals making a comeback to weight training have the ability to regain muscle quicker than a new lifter?
i knew a guy who took 4-5 different sarms at ridiculous dosages for each of them who placed 2nd at a usapl meet, didn’t get picked to be tested
RIP Liver
@@nullvektor9922 literally told him he could have done test at 1/5th of the price at least and it would be so much better for his health
200mg of testosterone per week made me about 30% stronger within 4 weeks of starting. Bigger doses of Anavar (50mg+) immediately makes me about 30% stronger as well. When I do actual cycles (400mg+ total anabolics per week) my ability to recover is boosted by about 50% and the pumps are so massive that it hurts. The sympathetic nervous state that's brought about by androgens is where the real power comes from.
That's actually insane. Like once into intermediate territory I'd day that on a given lift if you managed to squeeze out 10-15% strength gains per year (on a lift already well trained) it would be phenomenal.
I've heard horror stories of connective tissue strength not keeping pace with muscle strength gains, did you run into any issues here?
@@koleary1798 The only time I experience pain in my joints and connective tissues is when I come off cycle back down to a cruise dosage. This ache only lasts for about 2 weeks after the esters have cleared my system. My technique is centered around using a full range of motion and the heaviest weights that I can manage within a given rep range...So my joints and connective tissues are pretty healthy and strong. I also supplement with collagen, vitamin D3, vitamin K2, MSM, boron, magnesium, and drink a lot of water to keep my joints lubricated.
I didn’t know anavar makes you stronger
@@jacobpeel93 whats the best bang for your buck in terms of joint health? My elbows can be a bit dodgy at times (natty) and I'd like to see if supplementing could help, but I don't want to throw the kitchen sink at it right away as I wouldn't know what supplement helped and what was a waste of time.
I've heard good things about msm
@@koleary1798 Vitamin D3, vitamin K2, and a high quality collagen protein would be your best bet...Along with sustainable training habits, proper diet, and adequate hydration.
Really interesting! Thank you for the video!
hey Dr.Mike, what can you say about the use of PEDs in endurance running? For marathon runners does it have any major benefit?Also, do you think the top athletes, like Eliud Kipchoge, are on gear? Thanks for the awesome videos, as always!
Ostarine is a common PED WADA busts triathlete for. EPO/blood doping popularized by Lance Armstrong would be more applicable to endurance athletes, but my guess is most are natural. Possibly at competitive marathon distances, but the culture around PEDs is different and are more likely to be tested, but I'm sure its possible to get around those tests.
@@zbronstein3901 I saw in one of Derek's videos that a runner was caught using PEDs and she said it was from a burrito she ate, which is ridiculous, but I was thinking that since a lower class runner did it then the top ones could as well.
@@zeuglcockatrice4633 Ya I'm sure top competitve marathon runners and triathletes are getting away with PED use, but when I think of top ultrarunners like Scott Jurek I can't imagine his using PEDs. If they only increase performance by 10%, thats pretty insignificant when running 100 miles.
I wouldn't be suprised if Eliud Kipchoge was taking something. Trek was the team sponsor of the US Postal Service cycling team and most of that team was caught doping. I wouldn't be suprised in Trek was complicit. Nike (sponsors Eliud) was also a sponser of Lance Armstrong so I wouldn't be suprised if they also sponsored other PED users to increase publicity and sales.
Wow, that is not my experience. The guys who got on gear in my gym got way stronger than they ever were, it was probably around at least 25%. My good friend"s max on the bench was 315-320 and after 1 year of juicing he was doing 370-380. I saw him before and after. Our other friends saw how big he got and of course accused him of juicing and he steadily denied it. I told them I didn't know and that I never saw him do the roids. I lied for him cause he asked me too. Our very close friends knew. 12% is very low in my experience. He did Test and Dbol. I dont know the dosages but it jacked him
Sorry, I got the time frame wrong. My friend increased from 315 to 375 in 4 months not a year. To me that stuff worked.
Probably something to do with people being on gear wanting to push themselves more so than the average gym goer tbf.
the 10% is only if you control for bodyweight. As Dr Mike said, most people on steroids blow up. If you gain weight it's going to be higher than 10%
@@dessertstorm7476 That's side effect of test is that you do gain weight in the form of muscle lol. Most users will have an easy day because they aren't doing some kind of experiment to stay the same weight for scientific purposes. Truth is they make you a lot stronger without having to do much in the average user, not some controlled experiment where they are deprived of calories
5:45 is what a lot of comments are missing. If you go from 90kg small boy to 140kg gigafat while on steroids ofc your strength will gain more than 10%.
i thought it was odd that he (or greg nuckols idk) adjusted for weight in the first place when gaining muscle is one of the biggest benefits of peds. in my mind it would make more sense to take two groups of 80kg lifters, give one peds, and compare strength after theyve both bulked to 100kg. in my mind adjusting for weight might skew the performance difference.
Dr. Mike is the best Mike in the fitness industry.
Thank you.
I knew a guy at my gym, young guy in early 20s, not particularly gifted, could bench 220 for some reps and around 260ish for one. Hit the sauce, left gym and came back a couple of years later benching 440. Keep down playing it....
Yhh because he definitely put on a ton of muscle but I think Mike is trying so say if the body weight and muscle mass is the same the drugs help by like 10% , of course in general drugs help put on a ton of strength because a bigger muscle has more strength potential
I knew dozens who couldnt bench 120kg, that went 180kg within 6-8 weeks
Well I've experimented with them once (medium dosed cycle) for 12 weeks straight and I actually was shocked on how much stronger I got in just a few weeks time...
How long before your experiment had you been working out with a strict schedule and plan?
This just means you were sandbagging your training and used the cycle as a crutch/placebo to train harder.
Unless you run some Tren or some Adrol, and maybe a few other orals like Halo, the strength increase is pretty negligible. Assuming you're already strong.
Yeah, man
They work great way more than 12%. That guys study was flawed. Come to my gym and I'll show 5 guys right away who got stupid strong and big when they started juicing
@@young_herc This is nonsense mate. In a whole training it can work as a placebo indeed but when you hit significant 1rm PR's on all major lifts, is that placebo too?
@@ottootto2859 yes that's how placebo works. You also probably had better recovery when on cycle, and if you weren't training, eating or sleeping properly, then it will act as a crutch and let you hit PRs that you normally could've with more effort.
I've run plenty of cycles. I do get stronger, but not very significantly. It's more like my work capacity goes up, which lets me train more often, thus getting stronger a little more easily. But it doesn't give you such an amazing "strength boost" unless you have low testosterone or are using some heavier androgenic compounds.
I'd be curious where Dr. Mike's lifts theoretically would have gone on gear vs off. Additionally, how does one know if they're on their way to competitive powerlifting number? If you hit X lbs on deadlift or bench or squat is there a point where people can go, "woah I have pretty good powerlifting genetics"
How different is training for hypertrophic training to training for strength?
I never attempted to go up in lifts but when I have I gain muscle, significantly.
But I also I find I can gain while not trying to increase my total load.
If I’ve been doing hypertrophy training for 5 years and I don’t have impressive lift numbers because of structure can I start training for strength and get impressive numbers?
It’s funny cause Pete rubbish just posted a video that says the opposite of what you said about natty federation.
And Pete is the one who is right
Irrationally "anti-whatever" people are usually hardcore projecting. I don't really think it's even possible to do this calculation in good faith simply because drug use has to be self reported.... And who's gonna do that when competing?
100% agree, flawed study, did not prove anything
@@bobbyhunt3009 and not to mention, it's not necessarily about the peak of your all time best ever lifts that's always the issues. It's the rate at which you gain strength. Say a natty guy is going for a WR, and his competition decides to hope on gear. Mr. Natty will be left in the dust and the cheater will get the WR far before the natty guy AND he will be forever behind him with no hopes of catching him unless he gets injured... It doesn't necessarily matter that the guy on gear is 10% stronger at the peak of each person's career, it's also that the guy on gear will achieve goals at an accelerated rate which ruins the possible achievements of the natty lifters
Fascinating
Another thing with weight classes is that weigh ins for untested are a day before compared to tested where weigh ins are same day. So a guy in the untested division may weigh a bit more than his untested counterpart due to the day they have to recomp.
Hey Dr. Mike! If you think Ray Williams was natty his whole career could you give your take on the following... Ray set his records, full beast mode... After that he decided he was having a baby and all of a sudden his lifts went down. Now he doesn't seem to be competing that much if at all, but it seems his lifts are still not near his beast mode level. Could it be that he took the needle route, made himself a God of powerlifting for a while and after that he decided to move on with his life and stopped taking gear?
Had the same thought. Look at the facts: Ray Williams (record holder) squatted 490 kg and Jezza Uepa (second best) squatted 470 kg while both being tested. The best untested squat is 457.5 kg by Craig Foster. The best tested squat is 32.5 kg higher than the best untested squat. How likely is that to be natural? Looking at this would make you think that steroids make you weaker.
@@RobertSmith-xp1mg the assumption in that is that the tested and untested talent pools are identical.
@@RobertSmith-xp1mg Have you seen Jezza? :D Considering HOW the dude is built I'd assume his 470kg squat was natural. Not so sure about the Big Ray tho.
@@vredneckv Craig Foster is kinda built the same as Jezza Uepa. They both suck at the deadlift and they both do sumo at SHW. But then lets compare Dan Bell to Ray Williams. Dan Bell has 455 kg squat and he is not natural, he said that he even used tren. Ray Williams outsquats him by 35 kg. You could say that Ray Williams has excellent genetics but so does Dan Bell. Dan Bell is somewhat similar to Eddie Hall and no one can argue about Eddie Hall's great genetics, he was probably the strongest WSM in static strength and he literally had myostatin deficiency.
You need to get off gear to have a kid. So actually your theory makes total sense but for a different reason. Most guys can’t even have a kid on TRT let alone a real deal cycle.
Am I wrong here or are we not thinking about the ability to GAIN strength and muscle on gear. Yes sure, at the top end the difference may be 10% but theres no way you take two untrained 18 year old twins and give one gear and the natty twin is only 10% behind his brother forever, right? I mean surely there has to be something about being able to race towards your genetic limit at a much faster rate on gear.
Bedtime stories about gear from Dr. Mike. The soothing sounds of junk adjustment lull me to sleep
Mike you're a brown belt in BJJ?? Hell yeah! 😎💪🔥
This 10% number fails to take into account the lower standards in untested powerlifting, deadlift bars, squat bars, and 24-hour weigh-ins vs 2-hour weigh-ins. So it is hard to tell what the benefits are at a certain body weight, however, it is likely to have some benefits.
I agree with this, the standards in untested backyard meets are extremely low compared to USAPL/IPF. But yet their records are just as legitimate somehow
Stay natty. Stay noble.
If the sport selects for it, the incentives align, and there is a large enough genetic pool to select from, then the coincidence of freak genetics for strength and size + PED response and tolerance + aptitude/affinity for training in sport performance/fitness, if in only a small sample of the larger general population, means that all of the top athletes/competitors in untested formats will be using PEDs, no doubt; however, in general, if you take two random LBM-matched, equivalently trained individuals +/-PEDs is much closer than one might think when strength and/or recovery is the primary contributor to outcomes in such competition.
The one thing that is not considered in these comparisons is that the type of people who will gravitate towards natty powerlifting are those who have above average genetics, so the gap between steroids users and non steroid users will be much smaller. For the average person, the gap is much larger. The actual percentage is debatable and will determined by a varying degree of factors. The one other thing not considered is that some build their physiques early on with steroids then maintain them naturally. Obviously if you pack on extra muscle mass early on, then get off the steroids and maintain a larger mass for the rest of your life, that's a massive advantage that will go be considered "natty" later on. Just my 2 cents.
*** How much stronger do steroids make by weight category? 10% ok, but with anabolic steroids you can train faster to your natural maximum muscle weight limit something that maybe you wouldn't arrive being natty and working the same time, then it can push you over your maximum natural muscle weight adding even more weight and strength that you would ever achieve naturally. So yeah by body weight is 10% but when you compare yourself in a timeline you are comparing a 75kg guy Vs a 85kg plus 10% strength
He literally says this lmao
Yeah but at the same time you can get from 75 kg to 85 kg with bulking.
Thanks for clearing this up. I don't plan on taking roids but I'm always curious about how they work and what advantages and disadvantages they confer
For me, strength is just something that happens during hypertrophy training. Perhaps one day I'll start a moving company or something and that will change.
It sucks, but I'm realizing why I have such a hard time explaining to people why I'm NOT using. (Yet, cuz life threw a couple curves at me. Note the xray in my profile pic.). Nobody ever seems to believe what I do just on my own. I'm 6ft+ and 250-260lbs depending on the day. OF COURSE IM STRONGER THAN YOU! Why is it so hard for people in general to understand this?
Serious question though what amount of time and effort does that last 10-15 percent of equate to? The stronger you get the harder it is to get stronger. Ive been strength training for a few years. My first year of training my deadlift went from 465 to 565. Twenty something percent? I consider myself extremely lucky. But gaining strength from there has been much harder, taken more time. See what I’m saying? To me it seems like the 10% isn’t massive mathematically but could represent years, maybe as much as a decade of training. So being 10% stronger is actually 30, 40, 50% more impressive? I’m probably thinking too hard.
At elite level, it's infinity. An elite natural lifter will never increase their lifts by another 10%, no matter how much they train.
I did an OTC that was sold by Complete Nutrition(5 Decazol perhaps) around 2012/13 and it absolutely blew my bench up from about 250 to 305 in the span of a little over a month. However the emotional swings and the temporary disappearance of my boys kept me from going back.
Just a thought (haven't read the article by Nuckols btw):
I would guess that there are more (competitive) powerlifters that are natural than on gear (perhaps by a large margin?), right? If so, wouldn't the competition in the tested federation be tougher on average, rendering the gap between tested and untested federations somewhat smaller (on average) than it would be if there were as many enhanced lifters as there are drug-free?
Even though I don't think this changes the 10% difference drastically, it might still change it by one or a few percentage point in favor of steroids having a larger effect than 10% (depending on how big of a difference there are in terms of competitive athletes in respective "category").
I think John Haack is a good example. Natural his bench was 455, on steroids its 520 i think within a slightly higher weight class.
His natural bench wasn't at its peak either, but at the same time he's also not on very high dosages
@@amazin7006 John Haack totalled 1792 lbs and bench pressed 441 lbs in IPF Worlds then hopped on the juice and totalled 2000 lbs (+12%) and bench pressed 513 lbs (+16%) in the same weight class: 183 and 181 lbs. Now he is in the 198 lbs weight class and totals 2217 lbs (+24%) with a bench press of 590 lbs (+34%). I think he will total 2300 lbs (+28%) soon with a 600 lbs bench press (+36%).
@@RobertSmith-xp1mg he has a good podcast with Pete Rubish where they go over his progression and steroid dosages. i don't think Haack has ever reached his natty peak, and even now his progress is like a freight train. No plateaues
the natties arent natty, are you serious
Hi dr Mike, hi Scott! ❤
Would love to see you react to the transformations and growth of the 3 most famous armwrestlers in the world: Levan Saginashvili, Denis Cyplenkov and Devol Larratt.
Their training methods, especially Devon's, are crazy!
Could you do a video on how caloric intake can affect recovery from injury ?
One of my good bros hopped on gear and he actually barely got stronger and ended up quitting test after one year or so
One caveat the Greg knuckols analysis may have missed is that the natural powerlifters may have used gear in the past and had some durable lasting benefit from the peds although they may have passed tests or been "natural" on the days of their competition
Kind of sick of the people who are taking these illegal drugs trying to minimize the effects (and physical advantages) they have on the body. I've worked around amateur bodybuilders for a couple decades and the changes that occur once they go on gear - even if they've been working out hard for years and making little progress - is insane. I've seen guys who could barely bench a plate on each side within months they are benching over 300 lbs and gaining inches on their body every other week.
This is straight cheating..cheating oneself and also undermining the development of the highest form of self. So much fakery and fuckery in this world
What did you expect? Mike's a druggie himself so he gotta protect other druggies. This guy said before that Doug Miller is natty and now he is saying Ray Williams is natty. I don't understand how any of these other dudes in the comments are taking this guy seriously.
this video finally explains to me why the saying bodybuilders arent that strong. especially during 7:07-8:05. however bodybuilders do tends to have better strength endurance than powerlifter probably because bodybuilders train more for hypertrophy and powerlifter is more explosive and central nervous system training style.
You can absolutely get your bench up to 405 for reps from 225 from reps. The way you do it is by increasing your bodyweight to 300+ lbs.
Really i feel like drugs expanded my ceiling when I did only test my first time my bench went from just under 315 to 425 in like 2 months and now it's been a few years since I did the cycle and lost all the strength and I've been able to reach over 425 on bench not doing any programing or any drugs but making sure I eat and sleep idk what it is but if I get psycho focused and do one top set at 1-3 reps for the big three lifts and not many accessories if I do any at all and by doing that I tend to go up from 5-10 pounds a workout that's how I got my squat from 315 to 495 for a deep triple in about 4 months so idk if it's genetics or not over fatiguing my CNS or muscles
There’s one reason why the 10% is flawed. It’s 10% for those that are nearing or close to their genetic limit naturally. If you start the proper way, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s less than 10! But for the teens and young adults hopping on gear after plateauing at a 1000 lbs total? It’s gonna be a higher percentage depending on WHEN someone starts. In addition to obvious training/nutrition/sleep.
It just is way easier to reach your natural potential on gear. It's much more forgiving in terms of the mistakes you make. Not many realise how much they can actually achieve if everything is dialed in perfectly.
Dr. Mike I just want to leave a comment here and let you know you are my favorite fitness youtuber by a mile. No bullshit, super helpful, not trying to sell me junk constantly. I LOVE your work and PLEASE keep it up.
Thanks Jimmy!
Dr Mike, one of the most entertaining scientists ever