Take a depressed kid, put them in a depressing environment, surround them by people who make it their goal to make sure that kid stays depressed, then act surprised when all that bottled up depression gets converted into anger.
depression all affects people differently... some take it, and some small percentage snap and kill people. We need to help these people. Our society honestly fucking sucks for young people. School is so fucking terrible. Kids should look FORWARD to going to school and learning. They should be able to be with like minded peers. Public schools have to go. I don't know what should replace it. All I know is public schools are toxic for a lot of young minds.
@@sceptor7931 all it takes is a little nudge on a bad day. If 5 days a week for who knows how long, you had to deal with people bullying you for no reason other than to look cool in front of others it gets easy to think about snapping. Reporting it seems like the proper response but then you have to put up with the backlash of now being a wuss who can't "take a joke". Then when you realise you cant release that anger by fighting back cause you will just get suspended or expelled with your future being ruined, it seems like the easiest option for taking out your anger is death. It's sad that's the easy option people resort to but there's not much that can be done unless future generations get their shit together and realise that bullying isn't the nicest or smartest thing to do. The gun is the weapon used to kill which is why gun owners with children should have a safe and the password well hidden, but it wouldn't be an issue if trash parents actually taught their kids human decency.
@@jagerpride8618 Your're absolutely right. However, I think its a generational problem, not just the bullying itself. Ever since school existed, bullying has been apparent and frowned upon. However, we never really heard about school shootings in history up until about ten years ago. In the times we live in, kids have such easy access to social media and the internet , where they can find and mimic cases of aggression that they feel is suitable to their situation. Sadly, no matter how hard society tries, bullying is never going to go away. I think its better that kids understand this so they know it won't last forever.
I've seen the "quiet kids" being bullied at my school all the time I've seen them trying to get help from the principal and teachers and they never helped or even made an attempt to stop the bullying
I used to fight the bullies to keep the heat off the quiet kid. They couldnt stand up for themselves because they were puny compared to the bully. I was a bigger guy and I could take the heat and the pain better than they could. The quiet kid is the kid that'll do something like this. Stand up for them and you may prevent something bad from happening just by showing support to them
Its pretty rare that a mass shooter was bullied though. Its been noted that the columbine shooters were actually the bullies not the bullied. Bullied kids kill themselves,angry kids kill others.
My thoughts exactly. Andy is so damn level headed, articulate and extremely down to earth. He really should consider a higher leadership role in our country
yes the teachers always know they hear everything. in fact they normally know the student gossip as well but tend to do nothing ive seen it and been on the receiving end of it. when i was being bullied the teacher actually singled me out for defending myself and i was sent to the principles office for talking during class the dudes picking on me got no trouble nothing. i still hate this teacher to this day
Something similar happened to me. Little annoying kid bugged me to the point where I'd slam stuff out of anger. Then being yelled by my teachers as they sat there doing nothing about it. " mike picks on me every day and u did nothing." .....oh no he didnt ....yes he did. At the end of the year in PE class he started running his mouth again and I snapped. I walked up to him and popped on right in the head. .....he stopped. Teachers found out the year after and said I shouldve got a detention because they all loved him cause they thought he was funny. " So it didn't bother you that he constantly bugged me?." ......no answer. This was the same school district that put me on ritalin cause of my behavior. I grew up in a broken home what do u expect. Go public education
@@Luke-pd7xj I can't help but feel like some of the drugs that are pushed on to these kids has something to do with it. Depression, bullying and guns have always been around but these school shootings seem to be happening in an age where anytime a kid has a behavioral problem people want to instantly try and solve it with drugs. That combined with the fact parents are afraid to discipline their children and many children are raised on electronics/video games. I don't have any problem with video games and electronics on occasion but whatever happened to playing outside or going hunting or fishing with your father or grandfather?
@@Luke-pd7xj I agree with most of that. I wasn't really referring to weed as much as I was antidepressants and drugs like adderall. It seems in early 2000 they started prescribing stuff like adderall and other drugs to kids that were a bit hyper or had concentration problems. I remember it was pushed on my younger brother around that time and he really had no reason to be on prescription medications. He was just more of a hands on type and he excelled when put in that type of environment. I also agree video games themselves are not the problem, I've played lots of video games and even play them now with my son on occasion. I should have stated it's more of a lack of parenting, using video games and electronics in general as a babysitter for your kids. Being active outdoors, just getting some sun can do wonders for depression. Maybe some do need prescription drugs but I don't believe a large percentage of the kids that they push these drugs on need to be on them. Maybe it has nothing to with any of it and I'm completely wrong, but something has changed in the last 20 or so years to bring this type of violence into schools. Guns and the access has always been there, I was taught how to shoot and respect for firearms at a very young age along with many of my friends, I don't ever remember thinking about school shootings when I was in school.
There are lots of people who put their emotions into rage and are hurt so many times that they feel no empathy or sympathy. That leads to these people feeling like the only way to express the rage, or more the expression of rage, crescendos into these school shooting events
@@Luke-pd7xj and SavageApeV4 as a 16 yr old right who is 1) smoking weed at this moment and 2) prescribed an antidepressant called Zoloft I can tell you that, for myself, the weed is far better than any anxiety medication or depression medication I've taken. I do believe I legitimately have depression, as there's a very, very long line of it in (lucky me) both my parents families. Myself (and my 18 yr old sister) both smoke a lottttt of weed and then use it to focus on homework lol. The weed, if given to the right kid, is honestly a great tool. The antidepressants make my mood go up and now, and I also get feverish symptoms whenever I take them again after stopping. I have been telling my parents I take them but in reality I have like 150 pills stocked in my room. I feel COMPLETELY FINE. My grades are As. I don't really know why I went on this rant cause remember I'm high but like they really push it way harder than they need to. These drugs are not good and some of these prescriptions have ripped my other sister's and mom's bodys' apart. If it's the right person, weed is amazing. An already lazy person should not smoke weed. EDIT: What SavageApeV4 said about the outdoors is also VERY accurate. I began working out more and going on hikes and overlanding trips with my friends in abt 8th grade (10th now) and holy shit.... I really think EVERYBODY eventually succumbs to the effects that the great outdoors has. I'm in a beautiful southern state as well.
The media literally says "hey potential shooters, here's the kids face, he was angry, here's his message, here's the gun he used, it could kill X amount of people in X amount of time, look how famous you could be"
That’s better than no information. Then you would get these huge conspiracies all over the Internet making it seem super cool and mysterious. This is also very attractive to a potential mass killer.
@@JohnSmith-sm7ez Thing is they can provide the information of what happened (The School shooting and the number of victims / status on shooter etc) Without informing about the name of the shooter and how he did it etc. Since that info is not needed for the wider public. The people who live where it happend will find out that info regardless (Since there will be witnesses who saw who it was etc or if the shooter lived there will be a trial etc) but there is just no need to spread that info on mass media across an entire nation continously for days or weeks as that does not help anybody, It wont help the victims or the families and it wont cause any change to happen. Only things it will do is create views / money for the mass media and increase the chance of further school shootings.
@@Mattebubben yea.. and the fact that they repeat it as often as possible just for clicks.. every single update.. constantly digging for more info on the shooter to bring in more viewers
But you know they do that to enforce the narrative that guns are bad and need to be taken from citizens. It's all a power play to subliminally condition younger generations into thinking the tool is the problem and not the people pulling the trigger. And it's slowly working, unfortunately. The media thinks they're doing the public a huge favor by reporting information, when much of it is so negative and toxic, not to mention biased up the ass, and at many times (especially recently), inaccurate. When do you see top stories that talk about good things? Maybe heroic firefighters or police that saved lives, or good Samaritans helping out their fellow man; positive economic figures, innovations, or love during the holidays. You don't see that stuff. It's buried in the lesser articles that people don't read. No, when you turn it on, you see death, toxic politics, corruption, scandals, sex, drugs, and war.
As a teacher, my goal is to everyday be there for any kid who may not have any support elsewhere. The adults in my life have built my resilience, I just hope to pass on all that was given to me. Thank you guys for all you do.
As a teacher my job is to teach. I have no interest in being there, nor do parents care… the culture and our society don’t care either. Good luck, survive…
I was friends with a family of a school shooter in Virginia, and they were absolutely destroyed by the actions of their family member. People like to blame the family, but truth be told, they were no different than my own, or any other middle class family. -And that's the scariest part of this.
@@GuinessOriginal Yeah they never noticed. I doubt they come home and say Im going to shoot a bunch of people. If it so obvious what happened in Colombine? 2 kids shot the school up and no one seen it coming not even the school counselors. You cant tell whats going on in peoples mind. Like suicide people who say they want to kill their self are most likely asking for help. The ones who actually do it dont say shit. Same thing if you wanna go kill a bunch of people you act normal
I wouldn't blame the family. I would specifically blame the father. As a male, we need role models. We need people to tell us to stop being pussies. We need people to tell us to fight, win lose or draw. Most kids are so afraid to get in trouble... its laughable. My father taught me early on that NOBODY cares about my feelings and that I was never in trouble unless HE told me I was. I was taught to be a savage, body mind and soul, while at the same time I was taught to have a moral compass and never to compromise it. Kids today are told never to fight. Always compromise (even if it compromised their beliefs)...So what do you think happens when compromise doesnt work? They cant fight.. they have no moral compass... So it's no problem for them to shoot up the people who hurt them or do nothing to stop it. Kids need to be taught to stand up for themselves , even if it means they fight every so often.. its as simple as that.
You must be new to JRE then. Joe typically agrees with most things his guest says. If he disagrees, he phrases it as a question and the person usually answers. There's very rarely any actual disagreements or shouting matches)
Yeah that’s pretty much how he is with every guest. Rarely he’ll straight argue with someone unless they are being fucking crazy but if he has someone on who is pro gun control he’ll be pro that when they are on and anti when a guy like this is on
very true, one just happened at my sister's college yesterday. i was wondering what joe said abt it bc i know he's a sensible guy. sadly its as i feared and its so much more complicated that people make it out to be. even more in the UK where i am now bc people here think its so obvious and simple to fix. and when things like this continue to happen they just hate america, in fact ive had someone actually ask me if I hate being an American, or if I hate America. im trying to change my tune and actually listen instead of saying more gun control will completely fix it, im gonna try to listen more to the other side.
Sleepy ninja rin i mean not that i believe there is a link but there were less school shootings when hitting kids was still legal x’D maybe it’s something to consider lmao
Enjoy Hash it’s more because access to firearms was less restricted back then. If you wanted to shoot up a school someone was going to stop you before you got very far. Instead we got inter generational trauma from generations of abusive parents and bullies raising bullies and now that there’s nothing to stop the bullying victims from shooting up the school, they just do it
My theory is that the shootings started in the late 90's when we allowed bullies to get away with their actions and disallowed the victim from fighting back
Well, you're wrong. I don't need to analyze the psychology factors endemic in children who attended schools in the 90s to know that school shootings didn't "start" in that decade.
@@ladymercy5275 well didn’t start but their were far less back then than now. www.statista.com/statistics/811487/number-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us/ Not to mention school mass shootings today are still pretty rare. I think seen somewhere a student is more likely to die in a car accident on the way to school than killed by a mass shooter but too lazy to look it up right now. Feel free to correct me if that’s false. Students also use to take guns to school in the 60s(?) and had classes handling firearms and their was no increase in school shootings.
As someone who spent years getting bullied in school I did kinda get the feeling in my head that if only I could get rid of these people I wouldn't have to suffer anymore. Obviously I never did anything about it and I'm okay now but bullying messes you up, I wasn't that heavily bullied however it still really affected me. The bullying itself might not have seemed that bad but just the fact that it happened every single day and I couldn't get away from it was a nightmare. I would plan my trip to school precisely because I knew when the bullies would arrive at school and I was very often late because I went in last minute. I would sit still in a corner thinking about where to move my eyes or where to put my hands because it felt like literally every single move I did would get judged, I wouldn't read a book or anything during a break I would just sit still trying to avoid getting laughed at. Every single day someone in my class would say something about me thinking that I didn't hear them, but I did. I would skip meals every day and instead sit on the floor next to whatever classroom I'd go to next. I would skip school as much as possible to avoid the bullies. I had good friends and had a good social life outside of school but as soon as I got to school I couldn't do anything or wouldn't say a single word. It's like I had 2 personalities
It's time to grab a baseball bat or some sort of none lethal weapon that produces a large amount of shock, follow whoever bullied you on his way home and beat the shit out of him. IT'S THE ONLY WAY to stop teenagers from bullying others, let them taste their own medicine once and they will never forget about it. people are fragile, just make sure they don't get hurt too bad to be shown as evidence or die in the process. If you don't think you have enough stamina to swing that baseball bat toward them, try making the bat look intimidating, the factor of fear is always a lot more effective when it comes to dealing with people, these morons only learn to respect others when they finally hit the wall in the society or gets taught a lesson when they are still young. beating them up and teach them how to respect others might actually be helping them. Also, never let other people's opinion control you. be yourself. Those people that are very emotional or constantly judging others are sheep of the society because they put unnecessary standards and boundaries between themselves and others, one day the reality will teach them how delusional they are (some of them will never admit their own mistake, and continue on suffering the consequences). Right now their stupidity is an open exploit you can take advantage of. During school just focus on building your own life, learn new things or study martial arts after class if you are into it. make some real friend you can talk to and rely on.
It's a struggle for teachers too. I had a few years like what you described too, and now I'm a teacher. I can see some kids going through what I went through. I've told other kids to stop, but they just don't get it. I know that the only thing I can do is to spend time with that kid and be his friend when no one else will... But oftentimes I can't, because the school keeps me too busy with utterly meaningless work. So I'm rushing to upload plans and complete their tasks, while in the next room over the smartest kid in my class is going through hell with no allies. FML it's frustrating.
I’ve always been the guy who fights the good fight. I put that energy into the service for twenty two years. Where I come from you learn very early on bullies must be put in their place. No matter the trouble I could get in,did not matter to me. I always fought the bullies. I could not standby and not help someone who was being bullied.
Last year, I was 14. I had just got to school and I was hanging out with my friends at our normal spot. Gunshots started going off so we started running, I remember looking back to make sure my friends were ok and I watched bodies drop. I’m not a scientist, but I remember the distinct feeling of my senses being heightened and a surge of energy I had never felt before. I assume this was purely my instinct to live kicking in. As I get out of the school and make it to the parking lot I noticed teachers being hysterical, some running in circles, dropping their computers and papers and freaking out not knowing what to do. At that moment I realized the people who are teaching us and supposed to be strong and protect us are still human. This experience made me an adult, I haven’t developed ptsd or anything like that from it, but I know people who have and that shit is devastating to see . What I mean by it made me an adult is it made me mature. We weren’t just kids anymore after that. I wish it would have never happened, but I also wouldn’t be the same person without this experience and for that I am grateful. It made me appreciate my day to day life more. I’m 15 now, looking back on it I never realized the impact it had on me, for the better. Remember that good things come from bad things too, it made me a stronger human at the end of the day. Whatever you are going through in your life is only making you better, even if it sucks. (Saugus high school)
You’re wise beyond your years. Life is a full spectrum of emotions.. both positive and negative, but it upon you to make the most of these experiences and control how you’ll move forward a better person or best possible version of yourself. Always remember you’re no good to anyone else unless you’re absolutely okay and prepared mentally first. Best of luck to you young person.
Very mature and insightful words for a 15 year old. I am more than twice your age and am very glad I read your comment. Always remain open about your experiences for they can help others in ways you may never know
Bro what I hate about school shootings is that it motivates kids to even fuck around saying there gonna shoot up the school , two weeks later after the Saugus high school shooting a kid in highschool said he was gonna take a gun and shoot up the school the kids found out after he posted it on social media and no kids showed up to school the next two days until they arrested the kid who said he was gonna shoot up the school
When the SHTF, there's trained and there's untrained. The teachers aren't trained for this. You have to give up a small part of your soul to be trained for this, but in the end every building you walk in to, you know the exits, you know where cover is, you know that mobility is life. You don't have to be jaded, but you have to be particularly aware of your surroundings. Bless you for surviving. I hope your life is filled with love, joy, and happiness.
skewl:ayeeeeee we'd actually care less if y'all just ran up in here and just went on a massacre massacre happens skewl/skewl boards everywhere: *OMFG HOW COULD WE LET THIS HAPPEN, AS A COUNTRY? WEE NEED TO BAN THIS THING AND THAT THING AND BAN THINKING BAD THOUGHTS. ITS EVERYONES FAULT AND EVERYONE, EXCEPT FOR US, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE CREATED AND ENFORCE AN INCREDIBLY OPPRESSIVE SYSTEM FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR VERY FRAGILE FORMATIVE YEARS TO BE FORCED TO GO INTO EVERY DAY FOR YEARS! HOW DARE CONSERVATIVES AND (insert president thats currently in office here as to future proof mein comment und it still be relevant) CONTINUE TO ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!!!* kid: vapes in his bape shorts and bullies kids who don't wear over priced garbage that stole their whole font and style from a genuinely creative artist skewl: alright, we're going to take all the necessary steps to prevent this from happening anymore, and, we're even gonna go over board a little bit, just to ensure this "health risk" no longer exists. even though they're doing outside of skewl 99% more than at skewl but, fuck it, murica (FUCK YEAH!!!11!!1!1!) AINT A FREE COUNTRY, BITCH!
Medication alone doesn’t solve mental illness. It’s easy to give a kid meds and say ‘We’ve done our job. We gave them meds.’ Meds don’t solve a vacuum of attention, or love, or company.
It's true I mean if you look at the shooters in the past years it's all kids or people who are on antidepressants or some form of a depressant and I think it numbs them to the thought of killing like it's nothing. What us humans need is to admit we all need attention and love and to find help for us and others to get the care we need
ep1phany62 Quit calling them meds, they are potent drugs rearranging the chemicals in a child’s growing brain. These drugs are the number one factor to school shootings. Giving 10 million kids drugs for anxiety is not the answer
I live in Europe, and I was accused of bullying someone that straight up made his story up trying to hide/explain the problems he had within his family, and even though there was neither evidence nor anything else, the designated teacher took it completely serious. After about three months after a lot of talks I apologized even though I didnt feel as if I intentionally harmed anybody and we both went our way
I'm a great grandmother now and I've had an amazing life but I've also had a lot of tragedy that would send most people over the edge including myself at times I didn't know if I was going to come back. But like man I have been to 123 seconds where I've experienced total absolute clarity. I have found that very few people get to experience that feeling of absolute clarity. When we as a people can learn to stopping talking about the problem and focus collectively on solutions with the idea that we will find the conclusion.. When people listen that doesn't mean they've heard and until they've heard because they were listening only then can people make a clear concise decision.
prescribe me 10000ug of lsd weekly injected and I’ll never have any aggression ever again and won’t need any other drug for sure. This is not a joke pls make this a reality I want acid prescribed to me I would be happy forever I dont care about long term or short term issues fuck I just want the acid. This is not sarcasm! Please
Maybe most of them are bullied to the point they hated everyone so much including themselves that they see this as the only way to get justice and end their pain?
@Peace Frog Interesting way of looking at it. I think the issue is even at a lower level then cultural; selfishness in the human psyche which ultimately translates into culture.
I agree. But I also see a pattern of - when you have a personal issue, always look externally for a solution or someone to solve your problem. To extent it’s needed of course BUT what gets less importance and attention nowadays is dealing internally, coping mechanisms, how to help yourself instead of blaming everything else and not take self responsibility. Outside help is not always going to be there at a whim no matter how much we provide and facilitate it. 2 people can have the same issue but deal with it in complete contrast. The one who deals with it badly usually doesnt have self coping mechanism or developed traits to work through issues - you need to have them to even recognise and understand to look for help externally. We need to NORMALIZE (again) that it’s ok to have issues - your not strange or odd for having them, we all go through problems, we are not victims, it’s LIFE. You will never be happy thinking you’ll never have issues. Accepting you will and putting in place basic trains of thought and put basic mechanisms into practice takes the stress of being lost and not knowing what to do away - there’s always the feeling of a way forward then.
This is hands down one of the most intelligent conversations I have listened on this topic. Stumpf made a great point about how a big part of the problem is that we are too polarized as a country to even have a conversation, too many people are talking but no one is listening. Great point.
but see, that makes sense & is not sufficiently dramatic enough to warrant attention from the right people. people would rather escalate things to a frenzy & have peoples perspectives clouded with emotion rather than cleared with logic. we probably wont see a real, viable solution in our lifetimes.
Sure, Nicolas, I can do THAT, and I can't even AFFORD an AR. You see, the AR/M-16 gun platform was DESIGNED to be a Modular gun, so five or ten different Factories could build the parts, and you could take parts from any of the different factories, put them together into a Working Weapon, for Military Expediency and Economy. WONDERFUL Idea! Now, Pay Attention, because this is YOUR Answer: This weapon was Designed and Intended for Infantrymen, who MUST Have a Tough, Reliable, Decently Accurate rifle that is LIGHT Above All Else, because they have to CARRY it everywhere they go. So it has an Aluminum Receiver(VERY Light!) with the Critical Parts being Steel Alloy,(Light ENOUGH). Well, these Very Qualities ALSO make it PERFECT as a HUNTING Rifle. Light, Handy, parts are easily and quickly Swapped to make it even MORE Perfect for YOUR Particular Need or Use. Because it's Lighter and handier, even SMALLER People can Use it Safely and Effectively( WOMEN, KIDS?) so the Whole Family can Go to the Range and Have a Blast. Because of its' Acceptance by the Sporting Community, the Makers have Also Taken It Up, and Made MANY Improvements. The Army just wanted it Good ENOUGH. But hunters and target shooters wanted it BETTER, and BEST. After all these years, ALL the Bugs are Gone from it, powder and bullets have been Improved, until Now the AR/M-16 is the ULTIMATE, Go- Anywhere/Do-Anything Rifle In The WORLD. From merely Adequate Accuracy, it's NOW One of the MOST Accurate autoloaders EVER BUILT. Police and Military SNIPERS use them ! That ALONE is UNBELIEVABLE to a Vietnam Veteran. I ask you, Nicolas, WHAT Sportsman would NOT want a rifle like that?! And because it is a Modular design, if there is ANY feature at ALL on the rifle that you don't like that well, Swap It Out for one you LOVE, there are AT LEAST Three Different versions of EVERY Part ON it! Light, Handy, and LOW Recoil, SUPER Little rifle for your Lady. Maybe you want a little more Powerful caliber. NO PROBLEM. Get a different Upper receiver and swap it out. Takes About One Minute. Switch to the corresponding magazine, and Rock ON. You Literally CAN'T Beat it with a HAMMER! And THIS ALONE is WHY it has become So Popular, it has EARNED and PROVEN its' Performance for nearly half a century, now. Besides all THAT, ALL of the BEST Hunting and Target rifle WERE Originally MILITARY Designs, or INTENDED for Military Use. The M-98 Mauser, the 1903 Springfield, M1 Garand, Enfield S.M.L.E., P1917, even our Beloved Winchesters and Henrys. The Famous Sharps Buffalo Guns Started OUT as MILITARY Breechloaders. ALL are STILL IN PRODUCTION TODAY. But you can build TWO or more AR's for what ONE of these cost. And not have to load your own Ammo. Now, as to the 'Tough Guy On Range' Thing. That is just Insecure Macho/Girly-man behavior, and those guys do that with EVERYTHING, because they don't realize that THINGS do NOT Make you Better or Inferior, or even a MAN. Cars, Boats, Houses, Planes, CLOTHES, Hell, you even have WINE and CIGAR Snobs. Music, Literature, EVERYTHING, there is ALWAYS a Passel of those guys(AND GIRLS!) Out There Showing Off, trying to build themselves Up with POSSESSIONS. And trying to make others feel Bad about themselves, or their OWN Gear, or Whatever. I USED to think EXACTLY the same thing YOU think about AR's, a couple decades ago, for the same Reasons. Since then, they have Progressed, and now my old Lever Action seems a little, well, OBSOLETE. And, since the AR was DESIGNED with a thirty-round magazine, I wouldn't have to carry ANY Spare ammo when hunting, making MY Pack Lighter, too. I'm getting too OLD to Pack these Good Old TEN-Pound rifles Over Hill and Over Dale, lol...But I hope this Helps you to Understand the AR Better, Nicolas. It went from a dangerous POS As Issued to one of the Very BEST Rifles On Planet Earth, and CHEAPER, too. @nicolas guzman
But people are listening. I've yet to hear a right winger say we shouldn't be more responsible with guns. Only the left is claiming the solution is simple.
Parts of the problem include (but not limited to): not being taught coping skills, crappy/abusive/big mouth/lack of caring or noticing parents (pick one or more), mental illness, bullying, lack of help at school from faculty or staff, and a couple more that I forgot. When the staff and/or faculty stopped backing the kid who had enough and stood up to his/her bully, that caused a lot of issues.
I could listen to Andy speak for hours. Not sure what it is or why but he's easy to listen to. Smart, articulate and not afraid to admit when he doesn't know, or have the answer for, something.
1. Kid gets bullied to NO end, at school and/or his home, becomes ABSOLUTELY desperate 2. Grabs a gun and kills his abusers (and a bunch of innocent people) 3. Police show up, murders him, or he turns a gun on himself first 4. Adults pretend to be idiots, say ''I don't understand what this is about''. Rinse and repeat.
I don’t think “murder” is the correct term to describe the police taking out a school shooter. Especially when officers have been shot, killed, or wounded by them. Bottom line, there is no justification for shooting up a school. I don’t care how much you’re hurting, you don’t have a right to take someone’s life unless they are trying to take yours.
@@nj7969 The problem is you're essentially approving (or at least not actively opposing) bullying with that statement. ''Bullies should be allowed to bully and harm, and there should never be a consequence''. Well, guess what, there are consequences. And that attitude ensures the problem continues, ad infinitum.
AvyScottandFlower I’m assuming that your quotations were a summation of my argument. Which I don’t even think is a straw man. That’s just completely putting words in my mouth. You sir are the one on the side of the shooter stating that it is “murder” to stop him from killing his class mates and by that logic implying That the police protecting the law abiding students is a bad thing. If you’re being bullied then speak up about it and get counseling if it’s that bad. In no way have I defended bullying. All I stated was that the minute you open fire on defenseless students killing the shooter is absolutely justified and in no way murder.
@@nj7969 I'm siding with the kid being bullied, but I don't approve of him killing people, especially innocent people. The way I see it, the point is ridiculously simple (in theory, at least): STOP the bullying, stop the dysfunctional homes, and the shooters disappear. Nearly ALL school shooters are single-mother sons (and males who are in prison too). But is society gonna address that? The root cause of the shootings? *OF COURSE NOT.* Let's just all pretend to be stupid and ignore it instead, because that works so well.
I'll never claim to have an answer to anything in life. I think the strong polarization of the American public leads to two major problems. The first is both sides sabotaging progress. The second and perhaps worst is that media outlets feed on the frenzy while a nice realistic middle ground solution is lost. I'm almost always a middle of the road kind of guy and I'm usually standing alone.
@@spade2you it's simple. You have too much ease of access to guns. Britain and Australia solved the problem after our first mass shootings. But America has some retarded commandment from the Bible about their second amendment.
@@barnabyjones6392 Yes? That's how we deal with problems... Not sure what point you're trying to make with that - there's increased knife violence, so we create tougher penalties.
@@grubbybum3614 The thing is where does that stop? because it won't be knives but it could forks, or baseball bats and if you keep banning things you're eventually going to make it to where nobody can have anything. Banning guns is not the solution and it's not a bible thing it's literally to prevent the government from taking us over and controlling it's citizens the past has shown us this and we don't want to repeat the same mistakes. it's the reason why the 2nd amendment was put in the 1st place we have other solutions for our country but higher ups are not listening and they're not trying to do something where both parties don't have to be in conflict with 1 another. Putting in security at schools would create thousands of jobs across the country making it better overall. Working on getting people actual more help is also, another great step in doing this. But nobody is listening to these idea's and trying to solve it...they're just doing the most extreme thing which would both parties extremely angry for no reason at all.
@@PureGaming1845 this man is either a troll or a brit. 1776 happened for a reason, and couldn't have with out guns. Just look how fucked the UK is right now.
Thank you Joe and Andy for an important conversation. And Joe, you're right...purpose is everything, having a dream, a goal.....all these kids had theirs crushed by thousands of critiques from their parents, the teachers, their ex-friends.
My family was the CAUSE of my problems. It took me years to stop hating myself, and I will not forgive or forget what they did. I don't hate them anymore (maybe one I still do), but I accepted myself, which is way more than those selfish, greedy control freaks would.
Michael Moore : "If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now? " Marilyn Manson : "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."
I was bullied for years and years in grade school until I moved to a new school in high school. Turns out I suffer from PTSD from it, my parents didn't care about it when I grew up. In fact my mom figured I was responsible for it. I fully can understand why people kill and think it is a resolution. They have nothing, they don't think it will get better. There were times I considered shooting particular classmates. When I was 10, I contemplated suicide to escape it, my mom thought I was just being silly when she found out how depressed I was. What kind of 10 year old thinks that way and no one cares? I'm 36 now and my mind is completely different
I am so, so sorry you had to go through that. It is so sad most of the adults don't really listen when a kid has something to say. May I asked, what helped you overcome all of this? What made you stronger?
I was 7 when I wanted to kill myself, I had dark thoughts but all it takes is help it’s hard to see and is never easy to get by but u can always ban gun but it’ll never help the real people who suffer due to there inability to see the bigger picture. We all know this to be true I hope you agree
As much as the Left claims to hate Reagan. They never go after him for destroying our mental health institutions which left a gap that was filled by private insurance companies and pharmaceutical drugs. Not anti capitalistic nor thing all medication is the devil, however it's something that cannot be ignored. That and the fact that it's known that boys in this country are over prescribed Adderall and Ritalin.
Insurance is extorting us legally. It say you pay for this or else this is your punishment. So even if you bend and pay you may not get coverage you need because what you need and can afford may not meet up. Then when you do get what you need you get reps calling when you use it to much. Any way. Have a good day , take care.
About 10+ years ago, in the state of Connecticut where I lived, they shut done most of the mental institutes and pushed the most severe cases to a few local Hospitals. I have a buddy that worked in the ward at one of the hospitals and was saying that most just get released without the treatment they need because the local hospitals just aren't staffed or is equipped to handle them on a long term bases. He was also telling me that it just wasn't CT, but others because the states are cutting budgets for things like that. It's a sad thing that goes on.
As someone who worked in a state mental institution, I agree. We had so many people who we called "frequent fliers". People would be in there for a few weeks or a few months and get released only to return sometimes in just a few hours, or one day later. It's a huge joke. The psych doctors get paid big time money to put these people on medication that turns them into zombies and they wonder why the patients ask to be taken off them. Then they change the people's medicine up all of a sudden and the people go 100% psycho and we'd have to hold them down to give them shots. Damn shame how this all goes.
I was the smelly, ugly, unkempt kid from elementary to high school. I felt like I had the invisible mark of identification that meant I was undeserving. But I was okay with that, my reasoning was I was a first generation foreigner who had no freaking clue what it meant to ‘fit in’, and I don’t blame my parents either because they were to caught up on trying to survive. I viewed as ‘they’re supposed to hate me, I’m visibly different, and the teachers can only do so much’. I only lashed out to people who thought it was amusing to mock me, like literally making sure I’ve isolated them from the crowd they fed off and wanted a direct confrontation. Murder was far from my mind, I just wanted to get away from the schooling system. I do kind of sympathize with the white kids who couldn’t use my excuse, especially if they did not have parents who loved them. I don’t think this is a gun issue, but there’s way too many moving parts. I’m convinced there are some very intelligent people who probably who have a good grasp at addressing this, but there’s too much noise going on to hear them. It’s never okay to assault people out of a wounded ego, I don’t condone that
Coming from somebody who was maliciously bullied for years, attempted suicide, and has felt what I can only assume as pure, unhindered malice (for lack of better vocabulary) towards the rest of the human race, those thoughts are one of the darkest places the human mind can go. I suffer from various mental health illnesses and it is very comforting to see more and more conversations on the topic. It takes years and years of work and baby steps and mistakes to gain the tools to deal with the chaos that is the human brain. I am lucky to have made it to where I am today, and my journey isn't even over yet. If I didn't have the willpower to make it at least to the next day in hopes of it being better, I know for a fact I would have become one of those statistics
When I was young and had a bad day at school it was generally over after the closing bell. Now all those problems follow them on their phone. People can't get away anymore. Hell is just one phone alert away nowadays!
Mike Fletcher Exactly, social media is a major culprit. It’s not a coincidence that anxiety and depression in young people has risen drastically with the rise of social media. Anxiety and depression can lead to isolation, isolation can lead to a bitter world-view that can be deepened with social media and the internet. Add that to an ease of access to guns and you’ve got a shitty cycle.
@@SC-ew2fc Sad thing is smart phones are more addictive than crack. How are we gonna get the whole world off crack? I do like the guys view of it fixing itself over generations. I think I'm glad I grew up when I did. Hopefully for the kids the future proves that a silly thought.
@koolcat420 no one's laughing, you're adding sarcasm that's not there bruh. Go listen to Dr. King. He said a "riot, public outburst, attention seeking tactics is like a tantrum, it's the frustrated voice of the people yada yada" I'm paraphrasing but, go find the interview it's pretty relevant. no laughing
@de No it not. And dont bring the god thing into this. I can easily say. Xyz has happen cuz someone belief in a god. It a mental issue. If you feel your life is only pain. Then at some point you'll see death a option. And its not a hard leap for may as well get paidback. Cuz deaths my release. That why most shooter pop thenselfs when there cornered.
I think legitimizing that type of thinking is what’s causing it. We’ve taken the “Rub some dirt on it” attitude out of the American male and we’re surprised when the kids can’t handle life.
To help prevent the motivation: 1. Get fathers back in the home. 2. Encourage in person social interaction. Sports, church, DnD group. Anything. 3. Rethink how we treat mental illness. Medication on a society wide level doesn't seem to be working. 4. Make secondary education about acquiring skills and knowledge, and not about socializing. 5. School choice. Whether through vouchers or easing of bureaucracy, giving families choice of where to send their children is never a bad thing. 6. Make early graduation more available. If they are smart enough to get a GED, they should be allowed to graduate early. 7. Don't punish kids reacting in self defense. Always punish the aggressor, and punish the responding student less or not at all. The goals in addressing this issue should be to promote a stable home life, prevent social isolation, and give people a sense of agency and control over their lives.
@@torisefford989 Most don't have both parents. We know single motherhood is associated with an increase in mental illness and criminality. This is uncontroversial.
@@thattubechannel ,actually it is a mixture of kids from single parent homes,homes with both parents,and some a of mass shooters have had no hint of mental illness,or previous criminal background,...and there are millions of kids or people in general who have flaws mentally or were brought up by single parents who turn out ro be awesome people,so its extremely hard to tell these days. Like they its the ones that you think are untrustworthy ,are actually the one you can trust the most(&vice versa).. Its a tragedy ,life is..but there is good beneath all the evil.
try getting multiple people to doit at differant stages and locations over a week or so then there ya go oh and not caring for someones people in danger and letting them get rekt etc
Agreed. Also, remember when you’re in high school....it’s like social acceptance is EVERYTHING to the majority of students. Teenagers are very unbalanced chemically. There’s so many facets to answering the question. A stable home environment is absolutely critical as well.
@@leecro83 I think another element (one of many) is that if you ask kids what they want to be when they grow up the most common answer today is "famous"
I think hes saying the answer over and over. If i wanted to in canada i could get 800bucks and buy a gun. What makes us different some access but mostly becsuse we socially give a shit about eachother at the end of the day
@@armageddonbound great point! There are just so many angles to the question. Ultimately we're saying it comes from your parents, from what we as society value, and youngsters being chemically imbalanced. It goes so deep and like Andy said, it's going to have to change generationally. I really like this interview. It's the first time I've heard an actual conversation about solutions and where it begins. Even the comments sections are robust today. My kids will no doubt learn about guns and gun safety, but it's also up to me to help them understand meaningful values, self worth, and what it means to be a "human" as well.
After reading the first hundred or so comments. I'm glad to see that more people than I originally thought actually understand what it is, where it comes from. The schools can take many steps to help end it; but, the most important and the most influential and painful thing for those kids are their fellow students.
There is a shared responsibility between schools, and the public that pays for the schools. If schools are not willing to to shoulder part of that responsibility by taking CONCRETE steps to harden themselves (pun not intended), then it is unfair to expect that the rest of society must shoulder that burden. But the guest is right on one thing - the problem is generational.
Don't worry, schools will never get changed into a dystopian prison system because education always gets the short end of the funding stick. Schools barely have enough money to buy basic supplies for everyone (well, they don't, but teachers chip in out of their own pockets).
Parent are the first line of defense against motivation for this kind of violence . Being present in your child’s life exposes their feelings. Being responsible for your child’s feelings and understanding them is step 1!
Dammit man. It's a tradegy that most people do not realize how to raise a kid. The man never teaches empathy, and women never encourages. I do not know how to raise a kid but Dammit I know for a fact, the healing nature of a nonjudgmental ear to listen to the real them. And caring eyes to see them. And a loving touch with intent. It just seems people are detached or seem removed.
Some of these kids problems are caused by the parents and there are no laws stopping anyone from having kids! The obvious answer to the issue is access to guns...kids shouldn't have access to guns. Reduce access to guns! (But America won't accept that, ever)
14:40 to me this highlights how mental resilience and the acceptance (and occurrence) of failure should be taught in society. If someone has gone through life with success, sunshine and rainbows, then their life seemingly falls apart, they are going to be torn up inside and not know how to deal with it.
Any "solution" that doesn't involve training authority to figures to recognise signs of developing mental illness or distress, destigmatizing mental illness, early diversion towards meaningful help, eliminating the "kids will be kids" attitude towards bullying, and teaching young people to cultivate a state of empathy and compassion for others within themselves, is treating the symptoms while ignoring underlying causes.
The selfish leaders of the world only care about your money, not your heart... But myself and many others do! We should love and care for each other, people never realize until its too late how little time we have here. I'm going through very tough things in my head but i'm sticking in it to see what the end result will be.
A certain amount of bullying should be expected (you can't stop all of it unless you want to drive yourself mad). I think with more children being raised by single parents is part of the cause.
It doesn't matter if they're trained if they don't implement those teachings. I was abused, it was obvious to the teachers but they never said anything, never did anything.
I'd love to see those two talk further on this and maybe invite a psychologist in to have a good conversation. I think the ideal of time and lack of access to targets to mitigate these tragedies is a great starting point for potential solutions Maybe Jordan Peterson would be a great kind to bring to this table.
I would like a documentary that explores the lives of school shooters and how they came to be that person. Which could help understand the mental health severity problem.
do it or we'll invade/drone/choke your economy, are not good solutions to other countries problems. these solutions cause those countries citizens hate USA, and worse case, creates terrorists who want to hurt USA. like Joe said while talking to this dude.... you hit someone, they will get you back somehow. it is not a solution. its why isreal and palistine will be killing eachother forever. palistine 'you hit me, i hit you back' - isreal 'you hit me, I get you back' rinse repeat.
I was bullied over the course of the summer working at my school. I don't care about verbal stuff. I can handle verbal abuse. After a month of these two upper classmen twice my height bullying me verbally they decided to become physical. I may not react to verbal harassment. But you can't control a reaction to physical violence. They choked me, pushed me in walls, lockers, sprayed cleaners on me staining my clothes. Everytime I went home i had to make up an excuse to why I looked so screwed up. "I tripped and hit my face" or "I accidentally stained the hell out of my clothes accidentally." I did these because only b***** did that right? These seniors took time out of their shifts to walk around the school find me and hurt me. This went on for about a month until one day they asked me to help move a ladder and I entered the room and slipped. They poured cleaner on the floor. The bigger one stood me up and said "Listen here bitch, were going to break your fucking arm watch you scream and you can't tell because we're going to make you a cripple if you do." The bigger one had me in a choke hold and asked the other one to hand him a drywall scraper. He cut my head for about 5 seconds before I ran away to a bathroom. I cried and screamed as I pulled out a clump of my own hair and got a bald spot all bloody. I called my mom and told her everything. She told the school at which point they were fired but not even expelled because their parents were in the staff. I wanted to kill them. Bring a knife and stab one of them. To make them feel the pain I felt. I haven't done this yet but I struggle with this temptation to kill them every day. OK SORRY FOR RANTING THIS LONG but if you guys readed this feel free to comment your story's. You people are not alone. Don't do something that would put you on the headlines. Stay strong
“I don’t even feel like we’re having a conversation in this country. A lot of people are talking, but nobody is listening”....a very obvious, yet spot on observation. I think we need to start from scratch and talk about the fact that nobody is talking anymore. We just yell at each other
On the subject of school shootings, you need to interview LT Col. Dave Grossman who gives lectures to cops and soldiers based on his books. The first boook in particular deals with soldiers and killing titled “On Killing”. This book and subsequent ones he has written has chapters especially focused on active shooter/ school shootings and why they occur.
“I don’t understand how they could do that.” Pretty simple 5-step process. 1.) You’re a weird kid. You were always aware you never fit in, but couldn’t understand how to relate to people. Some of them go out of their way to treat you like shit, while the others mostly think you’re ‘the weird kid.’ You never particularly wanted to be with any of them anyway, because none of them seemed to think like you did, but their maltreatment makes you start to hate them. 2.) This social isolation wouldn’t bother you as much if you weren’t also desperate for a girl, getting pathetic crushes with no chance of panning out, because you aren’t attractive or cool enough. This is hard to cope with as a teenage boy, and leads to self-loathing and anger. 3.) You don’t feel like you’re good at anything in particular, have no real passions, and no idea what you want to do with your life. While others kids are going out and having the time of their life, or accomplishing crazy things like becoming famous musicians, or working towards passions they’ve had all their life, you’ve mostly wasted your life playing video games in your room. You know you’re wasting your life, but can’t rip yourself away from them, as they’re the only satisfying thing in your life. You know you’re smarter than a lot of people, and could do so much more than what you’re doing right now. You’re better than those fucking normal, boring kids. 4.) You see all these school shooters in the news. You see the media demonizing them, but can’t help but see them in yourself. You see them as heroes. You start fantasizing about what it would be like. All at once, you get to blow away all those fucking people you’ve hated all your life, and become a legend. You wonder how many people you can kill, how you’ll do it, what it’ll feel like. You start letting people know your thoughts, and how people are going to take you and what you say seriously. You imagine what the media around you will be like. You’ll get his crazy sense of importance and meaning in your life that feels more serious and fulfilling than any other petty bullshit people think you ought to do. Because you’re a teenager with tunnel vision, you don’t have a good concept of risk vs. reward, the pettiness of your problems in comparison to what the future holds, or the idea that anything could get better without you needing to do something so drastic. 5.) You start making plans.
Ian Gregory really hope things get better for you dude, wherever you are right now and whatever grade you’re in you gotta remember that things will get better
Jesus Christ "I have no skills I suck" also this same kid "I'm smarter, better, and funnier than all those other kids cause I'm special. Whiny bullshit.
Wow I totally respect his brutal honesty especially in the final moments of this clip. This is a huge problem and I think Joe is onto something with people having a lack of purpose and belonging. That is why, in my opinion, suicide in divorce is so high because people lose their purpose and identify... great discussion
From my opinion it a huge part of the problem stems from how labor is actually undervalued in out society. Be it back breaking work or just something low on the totem pole of sorts. People say stuff like go to college get an education and don't become a ditch digger and most hearing that would agree. But I don't because actual work being done is something that is needed and really seems to reached such a point that in sort of job the top tends to get rewarded when they succeed but when they fail it is usually those at the bottom who will ever feel anything and suffere from it. Which then leads to people feeling that they are nothing and worthless almost since society reinforces that through stuff like that line about college I mentioned above. That's not to speak I'll about educational and educating ones self but at the same time the constant societal reinforcement of one being nothing if they are are not on top or can just as easily be expendable to whomever they work for. Which then Hurts people the most when it just happens to them without realizing it and such. Of which much of this can be extrapolated to a bunch of there things in anxiety as well I would think. Some people just want to live simple lives where they work a 9 to 5 job hopefully making enough to support their families then coming home and spending nights and weekends with said family or friends enjoying what could even be said to be a quaint live. And there is really nothing wrong with that but much of society is poo pooing that. Making far to many feel and live outside their means to possibly live to the standards many belive they should some for. So really if labor was less demonized I would feel it would cascade to many other things and then make much of everything better more sonic people were instead accept the value of it and how much it is actually necessary for the world to actually go round.
Maybe the internet is bad for people. Everything starts to feel pointless when you can look up someone who has already done everything you dream of doing. You can find the answer to any question you have. You can see everything. Not to mention to a young mind others lifes look perfect online and makes your life look like crap.
Keanon Lowe a coach in Oregon HS disarmed a student and hugged him, in a conversation the kid told him that no one cared about him. It’s definitely starts at home with parents to notice what’s happening with the kids.
Joe hit it on the head 14:52. Many people today lack the tools to deal with adversity and when things go bad, they fall apart. The key is to teach resiliency to our youth so that they can deal with the world when bad things happen, or when something does not go the way they anticipated or expected.
Americans don't like to admit ANY errors. There are many nails to hit on the head, includung: 1. Guns are to readily purchased 2. Guns are too readily stolen 3. High capacity magazines make mass murder too easy. 4. American culture accepts the devaluation of "other" humans and celebrates the outright hatred of people that we don't identify with. 5. American culture labels caring for other humans as an evil... "socialism" 6. Americans want most of the people who need mental healthcare to go without because that would be universal healthcare and that is evil (despite the rest of the western world figuring this one out 60+ years ago) I could go on and on and on. Like most of America 's bigger problems, nothing will change until you substantially reduce the amount of money in politics. Too many profit from limitless gun capabilities/sales (on the gun side) and illness (on the mental health side)
@@coryr9938 tell it to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Canada, even UK - they are socialists and they are open about it, go visit them. Soviet Union, that I was born in never was socialism. That thing is called communism and these thing differ a lot. None of mentioned countries had gulags, mass murder, property nationalization, ban on free word. Calling Venezuela or USSR socialism is calling China democracy. There is no argument, this is fact . Lithuania is socialistic country too - we have free education, free healthcare, social care, govt pensions. We have police, justice system, fireguards. All of that is covered by our taxes. We have strict regulations on arms, we had 0 school shootings, all gun violence is usually related to criminal world. These who want to get at least a side arm has to go through training, medical psychological exams, belong to one of the hunting lodges, and have safe for storage of weapon. Also you have to do reexaminations time after time. This is gun control by civilized world.
@@raimondasbaranovskis9988 as a canadian, i can say that my gulag situation is great. I broke my hand once and got it fixed for free. I lost my job and got decent unemployement which led me to grants to start my business. If someone is happy and secure why the fuck would he grab a gun and kill ppl with it? Dont teach more resilience, have social safety nets that are worth talking about. How hard is it?
I taught my kid to not tolerate " Bullying " . One day he came home from school and told me he had to punch a bully in the nose at recess that day . I told him he did a good job and that I was 100% behind him . He told me the gym teacher saw him punch the bully and the teacher didn't say a word to him about it . Looks like the teacher knew the bully needed to be humbled .
I agree, the “something is wrong with everyone and give everyone a pill” is the biggest problem. Talking to at risk kids and discouraging bullying, you know, making them feel like someone cares, would be a big help in stopping these school shootings. I’m guessing that all of these kids would say they never felt heard.
Most school are giving out the message that “they care” already. But some dont put their words into action. Or if they do, its only to save face and doesnt get down to the root of the problem. Its discouraging. Even more so because its going from high to low. Do it only a few times and trust is broken. But thats just for now. Hopefully it gets better in the future.
Once I learned about the grief process (and that it was a process meaning it has an end) it became way easier for me to recognize the emotions I was feeling.
when i was a freshman i struggled with thoughts of shooting up my school and tbh it was because i was bullied, depressed, my social group was negative, and i felt like nobody understood me. and with me being 22 now im so glad i never went through with those thoughts but i look at school shooters as just kids that needed love and we all know how hard socially high school can be on people.
Mentally stable and healthy people do not start killing others, when exposed to this kind of triggers. I agree that bulling is bad and should be exposed, but it's not like you can bully every person into committing this kind of act.
@Charlie Keiner What's your point, though? Some, but not all? Yeah, we know that already. Doesn't excuse bullying, we should still strive to end it. Otherwise, you're part of the problem for hand-waving it away as a non-issue.
Single mother homes,medicating kids with ssri's and demonizing boys,are some of the problems surrounding school shootings. also enough with the tell an adult when being bullied the only way to stop a bully is to stand up to one.
You say "demonizing boys" as if boys aren't the ones CHOOSING to pose with guns on their facebook page. You let me know the next time a teenage girls guns down everyone in a church.
Why is it Joe Rogan podcast is one of the only places to find common Sense talk and solutions. The media ,politicians and more need to learn from people like this
My son had issues just like we all did growing up,except i know it was tough on him because me and his mom separated.By the time he got to high school,his grades were lacking and his moral was down which concerned me.I took him to counseling and within the first meeting they already wanted to put him on medication.I was hesitant because i read into all the crazy side effects,but i love my son i just wanted to see him in a better place.Within a week or so of him taking the medication he told me he wasn't feeling right,i stopped the medication on the spot.That was 3 years ago,he's 18 now and doing much better without any medication .Yea he dropped out of school which i am not to happy about,but he's in a better place and doing a lot better.My son is a smart kid,he never ran with a bad crowd or did any drugs,he's just anti-social and needs to learn how to get over it which he is little by little.He actually has a good job in construction making good money and a girlfriend which actually made a positive difference in his life..
And that's why your kid didnt shoot up a school you were/are a real parent and cared about what your kid was going through. Although he didnt do what you thought he would it was with your help and care that he has turned into a successful human being. So congratulations on a job well done. I say this in all seriousness and with no pun or joking intended.
My best friend, church-goer, nicest man I've ever met was diagnosed with neuropathy in his feet. So, he takes Lipitor, an anti-steroid to help with neuropathy. Well, Lipitor affects nerves and slows their reactions, and it messes with my friend's mind. It gives him thoughts of suicide and murder vividly for 1 hour a day. He told the doctor, and they simply increased his MGs... After research, I gave him medical marijuana and he feels better, no longer takes Lipitor, no longer has bad thoughts. *i'm glad you saw the signs and took action. These medications are NOT safe*
Ive stopped taking medication that made me feel way off. Brand and dosage effect everyone differently and the doctors basically take a guess on both. So you may have to try different prescriptions. That said, its just a tool to use to get you where you need to be. No pill in the world can replace a caring and engaging parent.
Some kids get bullied for years, and snap. some commit suicide, some kill. either way they made the choice to stop it. society needs to intervene before that.
Bullies on school playgrounds have existed for ages. I’ve always wondered if it has something to do with the fact that we mostly ignore people whom we don’t like or who make us uncomfortable. In Europe, if you say or do something socially out of line, you’re probably going to hear about it. At the very least, you’ll get the stink eye. Sounds unpleasant and rude, but I tell you what: you always know where you stand with people and you always have the opportunity to change. If you behave the right way, you get approval and you’ll always know it’s genuine. In the US, everyone’s supposed to be nice to you, no matter what, especially if you’re a kid. Sounds great, but being nice doesn’t mean being friends. The result is tons of misfits walking about because no one will give them proper feedback about their behavior, so they don’t know how to change to get people to like them. Because they can’t get positive attention, they’ll go for negative attention. Having experienced this form of social punishment firsthand with Americans, I can tell you there are few things that could make me go crazy faster than constantly being ignored, especially when the reasons aren’t obvious. It makes you want to scream for the sole reason of trying to get someone to look in your direction and tell you to shut the f*** up.
i was bullied by teachers grades 5-12 and i was told multiple times by different principals that actions would be taken against teachers treating me unfairly, and when these punishments were supposed to come into fruition i was the one who recieved punishments for not agreeing with the teachers that were bullying me. I mean name calling, revoking bathroom privileges on a whim, making fun of me for asking for help from principals and my parents
To me the answer is kind of long, of course its my perspective The short answer is society. Many boys are raised in a way that prepares them, not to fight an unjust society, but to live and tank through it, for example, telling a kid that he shouldn't cry cause he's a boy, congrats, now your kids views the action of showing emotion like weakness. That's just the start, the second issue comes when the boy is growing, the school system prefers a stereotypical girl, that's the role model for a student in the eyes of the school system, don't move, don't shout, stay still, you can't play that it's too rough, you can't run, so the boys now are being told that the way that they wanna act by pure impulse is not only wrong, but punishable,hes also told that because he's a boy, he'll have to face some unjust stuff and just take it, like the classic "you can never hit a girl" I was taught this too and was punished when I hit a girl back after she kicked me when I was younger. The kid keeps growing, and now he notices that society is quite unfair, putting in his shoulders lots of responsabilities regarding beigg strong and brave at all times, and when he's not, society questions his manhood. The double standards, people not caring, bottled up stress cause many reasons (bullying is a good example), everything starts building up, and there comes a point when he just breaks, and that's why I think it happens (also add to that moronic teachers incapable of seeing that a kid needs help)
I'm sad more people haven't seen this. This is the main buildup, add a bad homelife and depression and isolation and you got someone who will do anything for control. The media also doesn't help with giving the shooter fame and showing pictures of them
You are wrong. We still tell these things to our boys but we dont have problem with school shootings. No man this something that America does alone and nobody else.
@@17MrLeon you are wrong, worldwide men have a higher percentage of depression and a higher percentage of suicide rate, and by a lot, I'm not saying balance it out, cause I don't want women having the same issue, but I'm saying there are issues worldwide, men issues also stay the same in all countries (pressure and expectation) the fact that you take pride on being harsh against your boys sickens me, hopefully that'll change in the future. I'm all out for discipline, not for cruelty
Something very right with a country that hasn't had an authoritarian kill thousands of his own people in the history of the country. Yes second amendment is the mvp and an equalizing force
When a kid is so bullied that they feel they have no hope, there is no way they can escape or make their environment better for them they believe the only way of making it stop is ending the others lives
Actually the FBI knows why it happens. They did a huge study after Columbine. They found it was very very hard to prevent and detect. We are talking about very disturbed young men who feel they have no value and no purpose so they want the notoriety of killing.
I know people hate hoplessness but it it better than irrational fear that motivates the "find a solution" PR bullshit type stuff. The summary stats we have now arn't going to cut it.
Well Jimmy didnt the Parkland shooter post a comment about shooting his school and didnt the FBI have the shooter checked out as a potential threat to his peers and yet they did squat about it and now 17 students are dead, what can you tell us about your precious FBI now Jimmy?
No Zaoy. It was the police and the school. The Obama administration had sent out a letter limiting fed funds for schools that did not improve detention and suspension rates. So neither the school nor the police filed any charges on the well over 20 times the Parkland shooter would have had charges filed. So when the background check happened there were no arrests to deny the sale. But regardless one anecdote does not make data.
Figuring out the solution is easy to figure out, you guys said it in the first few minutes which is when I paused to write this, IT IS ALL OF THAT. ALL of the possible solutions and problems you have mentioned so far need to be addressed and solved. The medication issue that Joe brought up is very interesting and something I can speak about. I have been suffering with depression for a long time and when I finally realised, it then took a long time to seek help and then it took a long time before I got the Right medication that has made a difference, I am at least out of the pit of no return. The problem at the beginning was the first few medications either didn't help, or made things worse, much worse. And when you think you were already feeling as low as you could get, and then something shows you that this god damn pit is way deeper than you thought, THAT just crushed me.... and I was an Adult. Now imagine you are a teenager, a teenager in todays world that has so much more stress and pressure than I had to deal with 30 years ago. Imagine you're dealing with bullying, except now they have access to you 24hrs a day, there's the news, not just local news with 5 minutes of international news, but 24/7 international news on every bloody horrible thing that is happening everywhere. When I was a teenager I wasn't worried about my future that was something that would sort itself out, imagine with the access to all the information we have now if kids still feel the same, or if worrying about their future might be a little terrifying for them in our current climate, no pun, but also pun intended. Probably the Only thing that kids today could relate to is the last thing I wanted was to talk to an adult about ANYTHING I was having a problem with, no matter how much it was affecting me. Now imagine you are a bit of an outcast, or maybe a total outcast, you have no real friends, adults around you are useless, you start paying attention to politics to see if there is ANY hope for the future.... well lets just hope they Don't do that.... they feel more and more isolated and irrelevant to the world around them, and the world around them seems to be crumbling at a faster rate every day. Imagine how much anguish and terror they must feel.... how much anger they may feel inside at the people they feel is causing their pain... So now, Someone Notices, and they find themselves with a Dr telling them take these pills and you will feel better..., but they DON'T. Imagine, if you are reading this, you are a 16yo boy, the pills that were supposed to make everything better have just shown you that your deep dark pit of fear, hopelessness and anger HAS NO BOTTOM, maybe you feel you are free falling, or the last tiny ray of light that you let in is now gone forever. Imagine you Blame yourself for being so stupid for allowing that glimmer of hope to creep in, you feel so much Worse than before and so scared and angry at a new level you didn't think could exist in You... I Did.... and I was an adult. Now imagine how easy that could turn to RAGE!!! REVENGE!!! RETRIBUTION!!! And who do you think you might direct that towards? NOW IMAGINE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A GUN.... maybe many guns, semi automatics for Christ Sake, and as much ammo as you can carry... Do YOU think that YOU would be in control at this point? And remember, it is also possible your parents think they are doing the right thing by Making you take your medication every day because the Dr told them it may take several weeks before you feel better.... I stopped taking mine because I recognised my rapid decline, but I DID NOT go back to the Dr for a long time, and I was an adult. I was over 40 at this point, and that was my solution, but all my anger and hatred was directed at myself at this stage, and I got to a point where there was No More Doubt, No More Fear, my destination made sense, and I am very lucky to be here now. I wonder how I would have reacted if I was a teenager, and if anything would have been different IF I had been taught how to handle, AND had access to an arsenal of weapons and ammo? So yeah, I think medication can be very dangerous, but in the most extreme cases it could be CATASTROPHIC. But, it is NO MORE of a contributor as all the other factors you have discussed, from BOTH sides of the argument.... except the NRA, those people need to be ignored, not because they are stupid, but because they have A MASSIVE financial interest in the outcome, they will NEVER care how many children die in your country, Even if it is Their Own child, they Still will NEVER support changing ANY laws or so called rights, there is way too much power and money involved. With that much bias, how can you possibly allow the NRA to even put forward an opinion, let alone any influence on policy. By the way, in cases where it has been shown that the kids that have committed these terrible crimes, have endured years of being tormented and ostracised, physically and mentally, why have the kids and in some cases teachers, wether the teachers have contributed or just ignored it, why have their roll in the problem never been discussed? I realise that these kids are the targets a lot of the time and obviously also victims, the latter making it a sensitive issue for those families, but that does NOT mean it should never be discussed. How can other kids be educated that treating people that they think are weird or different, as if they don't have a right to be there or that they don't matter is WRONG. That kid may be weird because he is ALREADY suffering and needs compassion. The weird thing is that kids, and yes Even Teenagers, can be extremely caring and compassionate. I AM NOT suggesting that these cases be used to tell anyone, this is what happens when you bully.... but, if it can be shown in an educational way, what the kid was dealing with, what other kids thought about him and how he was treated, how bad did it get, for how long, and if THEY think he deserved that, can they relate to anything that made him seem weird to his peers at his school, have they ever judged or treated someone in a similar way, and what do they think would be the affect if THEY were treated like that by a particular group of kids, sometimes by many kids, and ignored by everyone else even the teachers that are supposed to help. If presented in the right way maybe we could make a difference, and in time maybe it could get to a point where this this type of behaviour is NOT tolerated by the kids themselves. Ok so this ended up a little bit long and no one will ever read it. But, if a kid reads it, or anyone older I guess, and you can relate at all with your own struggles with depression or anger or both, PLEASE ASK FOR HELP, there are many anonymous help lines throughout the world in the country you are in, or reply here. If I see it I will try to help, if I can't I will at least listen, and remember if you can read this YOU are NOT alone, you CAN get HELP.... AND it IS worth it, YOU ARE WORTH IT..... as am I.... and I never thought I would ever think that. Yay me 😀 I had to end on a smile 😊
The one thing i would of added about the mental side is, to these people want to get help? In a lot of case, and personally speaking, your will goes a long way, the longest way. If your asking me, kids should have specific classes that teach them about mental health, and another on how to live with it. That being said, for all of you struggling right now, dont give up your fight, take it a day at a time and chase happiness, whatever that is.
Take a depressed kid, put them in a depressing environment, surround them by people who make it their goal to make sure that kid stays depressed, then act surprised when all that bottled up depression gets converted into anger.
depression all affects people differently... some take it, and some small percentage snap and kill people. We need to help these people. Our society honestly fucking sucks for young people. School is so fucking terrible. Kids should look FORWARD to going to school and learning. They should be able to be with like minded peers. Public schools have to go. I don't know what should replace it. All I know is public schools are toxic for a lot of young minds.
@@moonasha youre right
No ones arguing the validity of the victims anger. What surprises so many is that they use that anger to intentionally KILL other kids.
@@sceptor7931 all it takes is a little nudge on a bad day. If 5 days a week for who knows how long, you had to deal with people bullying you for no reason other than to look cool in front of others it gets easy to think about snapping. Reporting it seems like the proper response but then you have to put up with the backlash of now being a wuss who can't "take a joke". Then when you realise you cant release that anger by fighting back cause you will just get suspended or expelled with your future being ruined, it seems like the easiest option for taking out your anger is death. It's sad that's the easy option people resort to but there's not much that can be done unless future generations get their shit together and realise that bullying isn't the nicest or smartest thing to do. The gun is the weapon used to kill which is why gun owners with children should have a safe and the password well hidden, but it wouldn't be an issue if trash parents actually taught their kids human decency.
@@jagerpride8618 Your're absolutely right. However, I think its a generational problem, not just the bullying itself. Ever since school existed, bullying has been apparent and frowned upon. However, we never really heard about school shootings in history up until about ten years ago. In the times we live in, kids have such easy access to social media and the internet , where they can find and mimic cases of aggression that they feel is suitable to their situation. Sadly, no matter how hard society tries, bullying is never going to go away. I think its better that kids understand this so they know it won't last forever.
I've seen the "quiet kids" being bullied at my school all the time I've seen them trying to get help from the principal and teachers and they never helped or even made an attempt to stop the bullying
Would you help the quiet kid?
I used to fight the bullies to keep the heat off the quiet kid. They couldnt stand up for themselves because they were puny compared to the bully. I was a bigger guy and I could take the heat and the pain better than they could. The quiet kid is the kid that'll do something like this. Stand up for them and you may prevent something bad from happening just by showing support to them
@@joshanderson3961 Yes
70% of bullying happens when there are no adults around. When told adults usually dont get involved.
Its pretty rare that a mass shooter was bullied though. Its been noted that the columbine shooters were actually the bullies not the bullied. Bullied kids kill themselves,angry kids kill others.
Of all the ex military people JR has had on his show, this dude is the most logical and honest dude.
My thoughts exactly. Andy is so damn level headed, articulate and extremely down to earth. He really should consider a higher leadership role in our country
Yes
You forgot Jocko Willink
Yes, contract killers usually act differently, he seems to believe in a cause
yes the teachers always know they hear everything. in fact they normally know the student gossip as well but tend to do nothing ive seen it and been on the receiving end of it. when i was being bullied the teacher actually singled me out for defending myself and i was sent to the principles office for talking during class the dudes picking on me got no trouble nothing. i still hate this teacher to this day
Something similar happened to me. Little annoying kid bugged me to the point where I'd slam stuff out of anger. Then being yelled by my teachers as they sat there doing nothing about it. " mike picks on me every day and u did nothing." .....oh no he didnt ....yes he did. At the end of the year in PE class he started running his mouth again and I snapped. I walked up to him and popped on right in the head. .....he stopped. Teachers found out the year after and said I shouldve got a detention because they all loved him cause they thought he was funny. " So it didn't bother you that he constantly bugged me?." ......no answer. This was the same school district that put me on ritalin cause of my behavior. I grew up in a broken home what do u expect. Go public education
Me to mate.. Never met a good teacher in my life.
Hurt people tend to hurt people.
@@Luke-pd7xj I can't help but feel like some of the drugs that are pushed on to these kids has something to do with it. Depression, bullying and guns have always been around but these school shootings seem to be happening in an age where anytime a kid has a behavioral problem people want to instantly try and solve it with drugs. That combined with the fact parents are afraid to discipline their children and many children are raised on electronics/video games.
I don't have any problem with video games and electronics on occasion but whatever happened to playing outside or going hunting or fishing with your father or grandfather?
@@Luke-pd7xj I agree with most of that. I wasn't really referring to weed as much as I was antidepressants and drugs like adderall. It seems in early 2000 they started prescribing stuff like adderall and other drugs to kids that were a bit hyper or had concentration problems. I remember it was pushed on my younger brother around that time and he really had no reason to be on prescription medications. He was just more of a hands on type and he excelled when put in that type of environment.
I also agree video games themselves are not the problem, I've played lots of video games and even play them now with my son on occasion. I should have stated it's more of a lack of parenting, using video games and electronics in general as a babysitter for your kids.
Being active outdoors, just getting some sun can do wonders for depression. Maybe some do need prescription drugs but I don't believe a large percentage of the kids that they push these drugs on need to be on them. Maybe it has nothing to with any of it and I'm completely wrong, but something has changed in the last 20 or so years to bring this type of violence into schools. Guns and the access has always been there, I was taught how to shoot and respect for firearms at a very young age along with many of my friends, I don't ever remember thinking about school shootings when I was in school.
There are lots of people who put their emotions into rage and are hurt so many times that they feel no empathy or sympathy. That leads to these people feeling like the only way to express the rage, or more the expression of rage, crescendos into these school shooting events
Also the people who never done the drugs and know nothing about them to make assumptions....
@@Luke-pd7xj and SavageApeV4 as a 16 yr old right who is 1) smoking weed at this moment and 2) prescribed an antidepressant called Zoloft I can tell you that, for myself, the weed is far better than any anxiety medication or depression medication I've taken. I do believe I legitimately have depression, as there's a very, very long line of it in (lucky me) both my parents families. Myself (and my 18 yr old sister) both smoke a lottttt of weed and then use it to focus on homework lol. The weed, if given to the right kid, is honestly a great tool. The antidepressants make my mood go up and now, and I also get feverish symptoms whenever I take them again after stopping. I have been telling my parents I take them but in reality I have like 150 pills stocked in my room. I feel COMPLETELY FINE. My grades are As. I don't really know why I went on this rant cause remember I'm high but like they really push it way harder than they need to. These drugs are not good and some of these prescriptions have ripped my other sister's and mom's bodys' apart. If it's the right person, weed is amazing. An already lazy person should not smoke weed.
EDIT: What SavageApeV4 said about the outdoors is also VERY accurate. I began working out more and going on hikes and overlanding trips with my friends in abt 8th grade (10th now) and holy shit.... I really think EVERYBODY eventually succumbs to the effects that the great outdoors has. I'm in a beautiful southern state as well.
The media literally says "hey potential shooters, here's the kids face, he was angry, here's his message, here's the gun he used, it could kill X amount of people in X amount of time, look how famous you could be"
That’s better than no information. Then you would get these huge conspiracies all over the Internet making it seem super cool and mysterious. This is also very attractive to a potential mass killer.
@@JohnSmith-sm7ez Thing is they can provide the information of what happened (The School shooting and the number of victims / status on shooter etc)
Without informing about the name of the shooter and how he did it etc.
Since that info is not needed for the wider public.
The people who live where it happend will find out that info regardless (Since there will be witnesses who saw who it was etc or if the shooter lived there will be a trial etc)
but there is just no need to spread that info on mass media across an entire nation continously for days or weeks as that does not help anybody,
It wont help the victims or the families and it wont cause any change to happen.
Only things it will do is create views / money for the mass media and increase the chance of further school shootings.
@@Mattebubben yea.. and the fact that they repeat it as often as possible just for clicks.. every single update.. constantly digging for more info on the shooter to bring in more viewers
But you know they do that to enforce the narrative that guns are bad and need to be taken from citizens. It's all a power play to subliminally condition younger generations into thinking the tool is the problem and not the people pulling the trigger. And it's slowly working, unfortunately.
The media thinks they're doing the public a huge favor by reporting information, when much of it is so negative and toxic, not to mention biased up the ass, and at many times (especially recently), inaccurate.
When do you see top stories that talk about good things? Maybe heroic firefighters or police that saved lives, or good Samaritans helping out their fellow man; positive economic figures, innovations, or love during the holidays. You don't see that stuff. It's buried in the lesser articles that people don't read. No, when you turn it on, you see death, toxic politics, corruption, scandals, sex, drugs, and war.
Ah so you are one of those if we just don't talk about things they don't exist people.
As a teacher, my goal is to everyday be there for any kid who may not have any support elsewhere. The adults in my life have built my resilience, I just hope to pass on all that was given to me. Thank you guys for all you do.
Thank you sir for serving your community. Please strive to be that teacher everyone remembers 10 years from now for THE GOOD REASONS👑
As a teacher my job is to teach. I have no interest in being there, nor do parents care… the culture and our society don’t care either. Good luck, survive…
I was friends with a family of a school shooter in Virginia, and they were absolutely destroyed by the actions of their family member. People like to blame the family, but truth be told, they were no different than my own, or any other middle class family. -And that's the scariest part of this.
You say that but something was different for their son to do that. It's hardly normal behaviour
@@GuinessOriginal No thats not true. It Mental issues dont have to be because the family he was just fucked up bottom line
@@jesseolson3142 and the family never noticed? That’s horseshit
@@GuinessOriginal Yeah they never noticed. I doubt they come home and say Im going to shoot a bunch of people. If it so obvious what happened in Colombine? 2 kids shot the school up and no one seen it coming not even the school counselors. You cant tell whats going on in peoples mind. Like suicide people who say they want to kill their self are most likely asking for help. The ones who actually do it dont say shit. Same thing if you wanna go kill a bunch of people you act normal
I wouldn't blame the family. I would specifically blame the father. As a male, we need role models. We need people to tell us to stop being pussies. We need people to tell us to fight, win lose or draw. Most kids are so afraid to get in trouble... its laughable. My father taught me early on that NOBODY cares about my feelings and that I was never in trouble unless HE told me I was. I was taught to be a savage, body mind and soul, while at the same time I was taught to have a moral compass and never to compromise it.
Kids today are told never to fight. Always compromise (even if it compromised their beliefs)...So what do you think happens when compromise doesnt work? They cant fight.. they have no moral compass... So it's no problem for them to shoot up the people who hurt them or do nothing to stop it. Kids need to be taught to stand up for themselves , even if it means they fight every so often.. its as simple as that.
I just watched two guys agree with each other for almost 16 minutes.
You must be new to JRE then.
Joe typically agrees with most things his guest says. If he disagrees, he phrases it as a question and the person usually answers. There's very rarely any actual disagreements or shouting matches)
Yeah that’s pretty much how he is with every guest. Rarely he’ll straight argue with someone unless they are being fucking crazy but if he has someone on who is pro gun control he’ll be pro that when they are on and anti when a guy like this is on
15:46*
@@jorgepitkill7412 Unless it’s someone who wants to ban weed then be becomes a savage
LMAO Jesus Christ your comment really made me crack up hahaha idk why but I thought that it was really funny thank you for that
"Everyone is talking, no one is listening." Now that's a powerful and true statement. The thing is, no one thinks that it is going to be THEIR school.
@Charlie Keiner pretty sure school shooters exist because they got hit too much...
very true, one just happened at my sister's college yesterday. i was wondering what joe said abt it bc i know he's a sensible guy. sadly its as i feared and its so much more complicated that people make it out to be. even more in the UK where i am now bc people here think its so obvious and simple to fix. and when things like this continue to happen they just hate america, in fact ive had someone actually ask me if I hate being an American, or if I hate America. im trying to change my tune and actually listen instead of saying more gun control will completely fix it, im gonna try to listen more to the other side.
@Charlie Keiner do you have studies on what you said?
Sleepy ninja rin i mean not that i believe there is a link but there were less school shootings when hitting kids was still legal x’D maybe it’s something to consider lmao
Enjoy Hash it’s more because access to firearms was less restricted back then. If you wanted to shoot up a school someone was going to stop you before you got very far. Instead we got inter generational trauma from generations of abusive parents and bullies raising bullies and now that there’s nothing to stop the bullying victims from shooting up the school, they just do it
I was bullied for a couple years in school. Never wanted to admit it to anyone for fear of looking weak.
Besides being evil
Bullying can have a heavy impact on a person's life
My theory is that the shootings started in the late 90's when we allowed bullies to get away with their actions and disallowed the victim from fighting back
And this only happened in the US? Or do you think kids have supereasy access to guns?
Well, you're wrong. I don't need to analyze the psychology factors endemic in children who attended schools in the 90s to know that school shootings didn't "start" in that decade.
And parents legally were not allowed to reprimand/spank the child
@@ladymercy5275 well didn’t start but their were far less back then than now. www.statista.com/statistics/811487/number-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us/
Not to mention school mass shootings today are still pretty rare. I think seen somewhere a student is more likely to die in a car accident on the way to school than killed by a mass shooter but too lazy to look it up right now. Feel free to correct me if that’s false.
Students also use to take guns to school in the 60s(?) and had classes handling firearms and their was no increase in school shootings.
@@carsonmckurtis2585 what a ridiculous statement, of course parents can still reprimand their kids and spanking is still legal in all states.
As someone who spent years getting bullied in school I did kinda get the feeling in my head that if only I could get rid of these people I wouldn't have to suffer anymore. Obviously I never did anything about it and I'm okay now but bullying messes you up, I wasn't that heavily bullied however it still really affected me.
The bullying itself might not have seemed that bad but just the fact that it happened every single day and I couldn't get away from it was a nightmare. I would plan my trip to school precisely because I knew when the bullies would arrive at school and I was very often late because I went in last minute. I would sit still in a corner thinking about where to move my eyes or where to put my hands because it felt like literally every single move I did would get judged, I wouldn't read a book or anything during a break I would just sit still trying to avoid getting laughed at. Every single day someone in my class would say something about me thinking that I didn't hear them, but I did.
I would skip meals every day and instead sit on the floor next to whatever classroom I'd go to next. I would skip school as much as possible to avoid the bullies. I had good friends and had a good social life outside of school but as soon as I got to school I couldn't do anything or wouldn't say a single word. It's like I had 2 personalities
Majority of people can understand depression brought on by a major event, but not when it comes from a thousand tiny events. Both can eat away at you.
It's time to grab a baseball bat or some sort of none lethal weapon that produces a large amount of shock, follow whoever bullied you on his way home and beat the shit out of him. IT'S THE ONLY WAY to stop teenagers from bullying others, let them taste their own medicine once and they will never forget about it. people are fragile, just make sure they don't get hurt too bad to be shown as evidence or die in the process. If you don't think you have enough stamina to swing that baseball bat toward them, try making the bat look intimidating, the factor of fear is always a lot more effective when it comes to dealing with people, these morons only learn to respect others when they finally hit the wall in the society or gets taught a lesson when they are still young. beating them up and teach them how to respect others might actually be helping them.
Also, never let other people's opinion control you. be yourself. Those people that are very emotional or constantly judging others are sheep of the society because they put unnecessary standards and boundaries between themselves and others, one day the reality will teach them how delusional they are (some of them will never admit their own mistake, and continue on suffering the consequences). Right now their stupidity is an open exploit you can take advantage of. During school just focus on building your own life, learn new things or study martial arts after class if you are into it. make some real friend you can talk to and rely on.
Walde sorry you had to go through that. I wasn’t bullied for very long but it made me super depressed and suicidal. Fucking sucks man.
It's a struggle for teachers too. I had a few years like what you described too, and now I'm a teacher. I can see some kids going through what I went through. I've told other kids to stop, but they just don't get it. I know that the only thing I can do is to spend time with that kid and be his friend when no one else will... But oftentimes I can't, because the school keeps me too busy with utterly meaningless work. So I'm rushing to upload plans and complete their tasks, while in the next room over the smartest kid in my class is going through hell with no allies. FML it's frustrating.
I relate to u so much, i kno how that feels
I’ve always been the guy who fights the good fight. I put that energy into the service for twenty two years. Where I come from you learn very early on bullies must be put in their place. No matter the trouble I could get in,did not matter to me. I always fought the bullies. I could not standby and not help someone who was being bullied.
No one cares buddy
@@markonino12 I’m 100 percent sure the people I helped,cared. So what you are saying now,doesn’t matter. And it never will.
@@markonino12 and I’m not your buddy,dick head.
Yep - roger that - can’t stand a bully.
I went to 4 different grammar school, I was bullied at all of them.. once I learned early on bullies don't want to fight they just want to slap around
Last year, I was 14. I had just got to school and I was hanging out with my friends at our normal spot. Gunshots started going off so we started running, I remember looking back to make sure my friends were ok and I watched bodies drop. I’m not a scientist, but I remember the distinct feeling of my senses being heightened and a surge of energy I had never felt before. I assume this was purely my instinct to live kicking in. As I get out of the school and make it to the parking lot I noticed teachers being hysterical, some running in circles, dropping their computers and papers and freaking out not knowing what to do. At that moment I realized the people who are teaching us and supposed to be strong and protect us are still human. This experience made me an adult, I haven’t developed ptsd or anything like that from it, but I know people who have and that shit is devastating to see . What I mean by it made me an adult is it made me mature. We weren’t just kids anymore after that. I wish it would have never happened, but I also wouldn’t be the same person without this experience and for that I am grateful. It made me appreciate my day to day life more. I’m 15 now, looking back on it I never realized the impact it had on me, for the better. Remember that good things come from bad things too, it made me a stronger human at the end of the day. Whatever you are going through in your life is only making you better, even if it sucks. (Saugus high school)
You’re wise beyond your years. Life is a full spectrum of emotions.. both positive and negative, but it upon you to make the most of these experiences and control how you’ll move forward a better person or best possible version of yourself. Always remember you’re no good to anyone else unless you’re absolutely okay and prepared mentally first. Best of luck to you young person.
Yes, good things can come out of tragedy, however, you lost your childhood way too early. That's a tragedy.
Very mature and insightful words for a 15 year old. I am more than twice your age and am very glad I read your comment. Always remain open about your experiences for they can help others in ways you may never know
Bro what I hate about school shootings is that it motivates kids to even fuck around saying there gonna shoot up the school , two weeks later after the Saugus high school shooting a kid in highschool said he was gonna take a gun and shoot up the school the kids found out after he posted it on social media and no kids showed up to school the next two days until they arrested the kid who said he was gonna shoot up the school
When the SHTF, there's trained and there's untrained. The teachers aren't trained for this. You have to give up a small part of your soul to be trained for this, but in the end every building you walk in to, you know the exits, you know where cover is, you know that mobility is life. You don't have to be jaded, but you have to be particularly aware of your surroundings. Bless you for surviving. I hope your life is filled with love, joy, and happiness.
school when kids are begging for help with bullying, academics, and mental health:
*I shleep*
schools when kids vape:
*R E A L S H I T ?*
*s h l e e p*
*s h l e e p*
*I S H L E E P B R U H*
skewl:ayeeeeee we'd actually care less if y'all just ran up in here and just went on a massacre
massacre happens
skewl/skewl boards everywhere: *OMFG HOW COULD WE LET THIS HAPPEN, AS A COUNTRY? WEE NEED TO BAN THIS THING AND THAT THING AND BAN THINKING BAD THOUGHTS. ITS EVERYONES FAULT AND EVERYONE, EXCEPT FOR US, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE CREATED AND ENFORCE AN INCREDIBLY OPPRESSIVE SYSTEM FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR VERY FRAGILE FORMATIVE YEARS TO BE FORCED TO GO INTO EVERY DAY FOR YEARS! HOW DARE CONSERVATIVES AND (insert president thats currently in office here as to future proof mein comment und it still be relevant) CONTINUE TO ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!!!*
kid: vapes in his bape shorts and bullies kids who don't wear over priced garbage that stole their whole font and style from a genuinely creative artist
skewl: alright, we're going to take all the necessary steps to prevent this from happening anymore, and, we're even gonna go over board a little bit, just to ensure this "health risk" no longer exists. even though they're doing outside of skewl 99% more than at skewl but, fuck it, murica (FUCK YEAH!!!11!!1!1!) AINT A FREE COUNTRY, BITCH!
*S H L E E P*
Medication alone doesn’t solve mental illness. It’s easy to give a kid meds and say ‘We’ve done our job. We gave them meds.’
Meds don’t solve a vacuum of attention, or love, or company.
Well said
So true. Meds can only do so much
It's true I mean if you look at the shooters in the past years it's all kids or people who are on antidepressants or some form of a depressant and I think it numbs them to the thought of killing like it's nothing. What us humans need is to admit we all need attention and love and to find help for us and others to get the care we need
So you've said what doesn't work but offer no solution.
ep1phany62 Quit calling them meds, they are potent drugs rearranging the chemicals in a child’s growing brain. These drugs are the number one factor to school shootings. Giving 10 million kids drugs for anxiety is not the answer
I live in Europe, and I was accused of bullying someone that straight up made his story up trying to hide/explain the problems he had within his family, and even though there was neither evidence nor anything else, the designated teacher took it completely serious. After about three months after a lot of talks I apologized even though I didnt feel as if I intentionally harmed anybody and we both went our way
I'm a great grandmother now and I've had an amazing life but I've also had a lot of tragedy that would send most people over the edge including myself at times I didn't know if I was going to come back. But like man I have been to 123 seconds where I've experienced total absolute clarity. I have found that very few people get to experience that feeling of absolute clarity. When we as a people can learn to stopping talking about the problem and focus collectively on solutions with the idea that we will find the conclusion.. When people listen that doesn't mean they've heard and until they've heard because they were listening only then can people make a clear concise decision.
Just put the kids on DMT
Best solution. Or mushrooms or acid. I would suggest that's something we're all missing. At least the Netherlands is trying to be progressive.
as stupid as that might seem it might help them understand the value of life
Or give them all shawn of shotguns
prescribe me 10000ug of lsd weekly injected and I’ll never have any aggression ever again and won’t need any other drug for sure. This is not a joke pls make this a reality I want acid prescribed to me I would be happy forever I dont care about long term or short term issues fuck I just want the acid. This is not sarcasm! Please
@@SuperDragler Yikes. You need help guy.
Joe "I will change my opinions depending who is in front of me" Rogan.
All cops are nazis yea if it were over time but he literally changes views every other day
@All cops are nazis your name says the complete opposite you ignorant fuck.
You do realize he’s talking to a Navy Seal? Right? A person with a lot of knowledge. Something you seem to lack of.
Nate "I still haven't realised that its a technique to have encourage discussion with my guest rather than fight them" Murdoch.
@All cops are nazis He's switching his opinion way too much. It's just obvious now.
Maybe most of them are bullied to the point they hated everyone so much including themselves that they see this as the only way to get justice and end their pain?
Possibly. :-/
@Peace Frog Interesting way of looking at it. I think the issue is even at a lower level then cultural; selfishness in the human psyche which ultimately translates into culture.
man, you have some amazing conversations on this show
Nomarlize Mental Health Care In Society like Drinking Water and Social Media
We need to denormalize social media. Or at least deincentivize social media
Social media is not the answer. Social media cause depression and anxiety
Agreed. There is still a deep stigma with mental health treatment.
True, but I also think if we had a facility in every city, they would go unused. Human nature is to avoid getting help like that.
I agree. But I also see a pattern of - when you have a personal issue, always look externally for a solution or someone to solve your problem. To extent it’s needed of course BUT what gets less importance and attention nowadays is dealing internally, coping mechanisms, how to help yourself instead of blaming everything else and not take self responsibility. Outside help is not always going to be there at a whim no matter how much we provide and facilitate it. 2 people can have the same issue but deal with it in complete contrast. The one who deals with it badly usually doesnt have self coping mechanism or developed traits to work through issues - you need to have them to even recognise and understand to look for help externally. We need to NORMALIZE (again) that it’s ok to have issues - your not strange or odd for having them, we all go through problems, we are not victims, it’s LIFE. You will never be happy thinking you’ll never have issues. Accepting you will and putting in place basic trains of thought and put basic mechanisms into practice takes the stress of being lost and not knowing what to do away - there’s always the feeling of a way forward then.
This is hands down one of the most intelligent conversations I have listened on this topic. Stumpf made a great point about how a big part of the problem is that we are too polarized as a country to even have a conversation, too many people are talking but no one is listening. Great point.
but see, that makes sense & is not sufficiently dramatic enough to warrant attention from the right people. people would rather escalate things to a frenzy & have peoples perspectives clouded with emotion rather than cleared with logic. we probably wont see a real, viable solution in our lifetimes.
Sure, Nicolas, I can do THAT, and I can't even AFFORD an AR. You see, the AR/M-16 gun platform was DESIGNED to be a Modular gun, so five or ten different Factories could build the parts, and you could take parts from any of the different factories, put them together into a Working Weapon, for Military Expediency and Economy. WONDERFUL Idea! Now, Pay Attention, because this is YOUR Answer: This weapon was Designed and Intended for Infantrymen, who MUST Have a Tough, Reliable, Decently Accurate rifle that is LIGHT Above All Else, because they have to CARRY it everywhere they go. So it has an Aluminum Receiver(VERY Light!) with the Critical Parts being Steel Alloy,(Light ENOUGH). Well, these Very Qualities ALSO make it PERFECT as a HUNTING Rifle. Light, Handy, parts are easily and quickly Swapped to make it even MORE Perfect for YOUR Particular Need or Use. Because it's Lighter and handier, even SMALLER People can Use it Safely and Effectively( WOMEN, KIDS?) so the Whole Family can Go to the Range and Have a Blast. Because of its' Acceptance by the Sporting Community, the Makers have Also Taken It Up, and Made MANY Improvements. The Army just wanted it Good ENOUGH. But hunters and target shooters wanted it BETTER, and BEST. After all these years, ALL the Bugs are Gone from it, powder and bullets have been Improved, until Now the AR/M-16 is the ULTIMATE, Go- Anywhere/Do-Anything Rifle In The WORLD. From merely Adequate Accuracy, it's NOW One of the MOST Accurate autoloaders EVER BUILT. Police and Military SNIPERS use them ! That ALONE is UNBELIEVABLE to a Vietnam Veteran. I ask you, Nicolas, WHAT Sportsman would NOT want a rifle like that?! And because it is a Modular design, if there is ANY feature at ALL on the rifle that you don't like that well, Swap It Out for one you LOVE, there are AT LEAST Three Different versions of EVERY Part ON it! Light, Handy, and LOW Recoil, SUPER Little rifle for your Lady. Maybe you want a little more Powerful caliber. NO PROBLEM. Get a different Upper receiver and swap it out. Takes About One Minute. Switch to the corresponding magazine, and Rock ON. You Literally CAN'T Beat it with a HAMMER! And THIS ALONE is WHY it has become So Popular, it has EARNED and PROVEN its' Performance for nearly half a century, now. Besides all THAT, ALL of the BEST Hunting and Target rifle WERE Originally MILITARY Designs, or INTENDED for Military Use. The M-98 Mauser, the 1903 Springfield, M1 Garand, Enfield S.M.L.E., P1917, even our Beloved Winchesters and Henrys. The Famous Sharps Buffalo Guns Started OUT as MILITARY Breechloaders. ALL are STILL IN PRODUCTION TODAY. But you can build TWO or more AR's for what ONE of these cost. And not have to load your own Ammo.
Now, as to the 'Tough Guy On Range' Thing. That is just Insecure Macho/Girly-man behavior, and those guys do that with EVERYTHING, because they don't realize that THINGS do NOT Make you Better or Inferior, or even a MAN. Cars, Boats, Houses, Planes, CLOTHES, Hell, you even have WINE and CIGAR Snobs. Music, Literature, EVERYTHING, there is ALWAYS a Passel of those guys(AND GIRLS!) Out There Showing Off, trying to build themselves Up with POSSESSIONS. And trying to make others feel Bad about themselves, or their OWN Gear, or Whatever. I USED to think EXACTLY the same thing YOU think about AR's, a couple decades ago, for the same Reasons. Since then, they have Progressed, and now my old Lever Action seems a little, well, OBSOLETE. And, since the AR was DESIGNED with a thirty-round magazine, I wouldn't have to carry ANY Spare ammo when hunting, making MY Pack Lighter, too. I'm getting too OLD to Pack these Good Old TEN-Pound rifles Over Hill and Over Dale, lol...But I hope this Helps you to Understand the AR Better, Nicolas. It went from a dangerous POS As Issued to one of the Very BEST Rifles On Planet Earth, and CHEAPER, too. @nicolas guzman
But people are listening. I've yet to hear a right winger say we shouldn't be more responsible with guns. Only the left is claiming the solution is simple.
Then talk about it instead of trying to take people's guns away. And nobody said keep the gun in your safe while you sleep.
What a rude arse hole. English not your first language?
Parts of the problem include (but not limited to): not being taught coping skills, crappy/abusive/big mouth/lack of caring or noticing parents (pick one or more), mental illness, bullying, lack of help at school from faculty or staff, and a couple more that I forgot. When the staff and/or faculty stopped backing the kid who had enough and stood up to his/her bully, that caused a lot of issues.
I could listen to Andy speak for hours. Not sure what it is or why but he's easy to listen to. Smart, articulate and not afraid to admit when he doesn't know, or have the answer for, something.
1. Kid gets bullied to NO end, at school and/or his home, becomes ABSOLUTELY desperate
2. Grabs a gun and kills his abusers (and a bunch of innocent people)
3. Police show up, murders him, or he turns a gun on himself first
4. Adults pretend to be idiots, say ''I don't understand what this is about''. Rinse and repeat.
I don’t think “murder” is the correct term to describe the police taking out a school shooter. Especially when officers have been shot, killed, or wounded by them. Bottom line, there is no justification for shooting up a school. I don’t care how much you’re hurting, you don’t have a right to take someone’s life unless they are trying to take yours.
@@nj7969 The problem is you're essentially approving (or at least not actively opposing) bullying with that statement. ''Bullies should be allowed to bully and harm, and there should never be a consequence''. Well, guess what, there are consequences. And that attitude ensures the problem continues, ad infinitum.
AvyScottandFlower I’m assuming that your quotations were a summation of my argument. Which I don’t even think is a straw man. That’s just completely putting words in my mouth.
You sir are the one on the side of the shooter stating that it is “murder” to stop him from killing his class mates and by that logic implying That the police protecting the law abiding students is a bad thing. If you’re being bullied then speak up about it and get counseling if it’s that bad. In no way have I defended bullying. All I stated was that the minute you open fire on defenseless students killing the shooter is absolutely justified and in no way murder.
AvyScottandFlower I say arm teachers
@@nj7969 I'm siding with the kid being bullied, but I don't approve of him killing people, especially innocent people.
The way I see it, the point is ridiculously simple (in theory, at least): STOP the bullying, stop the dysfunctional homes, and the shooters disappear.
Nearly ALL school shooters are single-mother sons (and males who are in prison too). But is society gonna address that? The root cause of the shootings?
*OF COURSE NOT.* Let's just all pretend to be stupid and ignore it instead, because that works so well.
good segment. he’s right...”people talk but aren’t listening “ 100% accurate
I'll never claim to have an answer to anything in life. I think the strong polarization of the American public leads to two major problems. The first is both sides sabotaging progress. The second and perhaps worst is that media outlets feed on the frenzy while a nice realistic middle ground solution is lost. I'm almost always a middle of the road kind of guy and I'm usually standing alone.
@@spade2you it's simple. You have too much ease of access to guns. Britain and Australia solved the problem after our first mass shootings. But America has some retarded commandment from the Bible about their second amendment.
@@barnabyjones6392 Yes? That's how we deal with problems... Not sure what point you're trying to make with that - there's increased knife violence, so we create tougher penalties.
@@grubbybum3614 The thing is where does that stop? because it won't be knives but it could forks, or baseball bats and if you keep banning things you're eventually going to make it to where nobody can have anything. Banning guns is not the solution and it's not a bible thing it's literally to prevent the government from taking us over and controlling it's citizens the past has shown us this and we don't want to repeat the same mistakes. it's the reason why the 2nd amendment was put in the 1st place we have other solutions for our country but higher ups are not listening and they're not trying to do something where both parties don't have to be in conflict with 1 another.
Putting in security at schools would create thousands of jobs across the country making it better overall. Working on getting people actual more help is also, another great step in doing this. But nobody is listening to these idea's and trying to solve it...they're just doing the most extreme thing which would both parties extremely angry for no reason at all.
@@PureGaming1845 this man is either a troll or a brit. 1776 happened for a reason, and couldn't have with out guns. Just look how fucked the UK is right now.
Amen to your answers. Spot on!
Thank you Joe and Andy for an important conversation. And Joe, you're right...purpose is everything, having a dream, a goal.....all these kids had theirs crushed by thousands of critiques from their parents, the teachers, their ex-friends.
Yeah guns !
As someone who suffers from mental health issues, my family was the biggest factor in getting me through it.
Getting through it ? So you got through it ? So you don’t suffer ... or were you saying they helped you get through your school shooting
Hunter Cook he said getting through it never got through it dumbass. grow the fuck up
My family was the CAUSE of my problems. It took me years to stop hating myself, and I will not forgive or forget what they did. I don't hate them anymore (maybe one I still do), but I accepted myself, which is way more than those selfish, greedy control freaks would.
@@soco13466 man I feel bad for you, I feel as of now without my family I wouldn’t be here anymore
A very mature conversation where two men are trying to get to the truth rather than be right. The world needs more men like this.
11:05 SPOT ON : "We have a mental health crisis disguised as a gun crisis"
Michael Moore : "If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?
"
Marilyn Manson : "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."
I was bullied for years and years in grade school until I moved to a new school in high school. Turns out I suffer from PTSD from it, my parents didn't care about it when I grew up. In fact my mom figured I was responsible for it.
I fully can understand why people kill and think it is a resolution. They have nothing, they don't think it will get better. There were times I considered shooting particular classmates.
When I was 10, I contemplated suicide to escape it, my mom thought I was just being silly when she found out how depressed I was. What kind of 10 year old thinks that way and no one cares?
I'm 36 now and my mind is completely different
Berengier817 on behalf of humankind, I’m truly sorry you went through that.
I am so, so sorry you had to go through that. It is so sad most of the adults don't really listen when a kid has something to say. May I asked, what helped you overcome all of this? What made you stronger?
I was 7 when I wanted to kill myself, I had dark thoughts but all it takes is help it’s hard to see and is never easy to get by but u can always ban gun but it’ll never help the real people who suffer due to there inability to see the bigger picture. We all know this to be true I hope you agree
How did you overcome your scarred memories?
Kids are cruel and that is hard to fix.
Mental health in this country is a JOKE. Even with insurance!
As much as the Left claims to hate Reagan. They never go after him for destroying our mental health institutions which left a gap that was filled by private insurance companies and pharmaceutical drugs. Not anti capitalistic nor thing all medication is the devil, however it's something that cannot be ignored. That and the fact that it's known that boys in this country are over prescribed Adderall and Ritalin.
Insurance is extorting us legally. It say you pay for this or else this is your punishment. So even if you bend and pay you may not get coverage you need because what you need and can afford may not meet up. Then when you do get what you need you get reps calling when you use it to much. Any way. Have a good day , take care.
About 10+ years ago, in the state of Connecticut where I lived, they shut done most of the mental institutes and pushed the most severe cases to a few local Hospitals. I have a buddy that worked in the ward at one of the hospitals and was saying that most just get released without the treatment they need because the local hospitals just aren't staffed or is equipped to handle them on a long term bases. He was also telling me that it just wasn't CT, but others because the states are cutting budgets for things like that. It's a sad thing that goes on.
As someone who worked in a state mental institution, I agree. We had so many people who we called "frequent fliers". People would be in there for a few weeks or a few months and get released only to return sometimes in just a few hours, or one day later.
It's a huge joke. The psych doctors get paid big time money to put these people on medication that turns them into zombies and they wonder why the patients ask to be taken off them. Then they change the people's medicine up all of a sudden and the people go 100% psycho and we'd have to hold them down to give them shots. Damn shame how this all goes.
I pay 250 a check for health insurance through my work and I make 10 bucks an hour. What does my insurance cover? Literally nothing.
I was the smelly, ugly, unkempt kid from elementary to high school. I felt like I had the invisible mark of identification that meant I was undeserving. But I was okay with that, my reasoning was I was a first generation foreigner who had no freaking clue what it meant to ‘fit in’, and I don’t blame my parents either because they were to caught up on trying to survive. I viewed as ‘they’re supposed to hate me, I’m visibly different, and the teachers can only do so much’. I only lashed out to people who thought it was amusing to mock me, like literally making sure I’ve isolated them from the crowd they fed off and wanted a direct confrontation. Murder was far from my mind, I just wanted to get away from the schooling system. I do kind of sympathize with the white kids who couldn’t use my excuse, especially if they did not have parents who loved them. I don’t think this is a gun issue, but there’s way too many moving parts. I’m convinced there are some very intelligent people who probably who have a good grasp at addressing this, but there’s too much noise going on to hear them. It’s never okay to assault people out of a wounded ego, I don’t condone that
Coming from somebody who was maliciously bullied for years, attempted suicide, and has felt what I can only assume as pure, unhindered malice (for lack of better vocabulary) towards the rest of the human race, those thoughts are one of the darkest places the human mind can go. I suffer from various mental health illnesses and it is very comforting to see more and more conversations on the topic. It takes years and years of work and baby steps and mistakes to gain the tools to deal with the chaos that is the human brain. I am lucky to have made it to where I am today, and my journey isn't even over yet. If I didn't have the willpower to make it at least to the next day in hopes of it being better, I know for a fact I would have become one of those statistics
When I was young and had a bad day at school it was generally over after the closing bell. Now all those problems follow them on their phone. People can't get away anymore. Hell is just one phone alert away nowadays!
Mike Fletcher Exactly, social media is a major culprit. It’s not a coincidence that anxiety and depression in young people has risen drastically with the rise of social media. Anxiety and depression can lead to isolation, isolation can lead to a bitter world-view that can be deepened with social media and the internet. Add that to an ease of access to guns and you’ve got a shitty cycle.
@@SC-ew2fc Sad thing is smart phones are more addictive than crack. How are we gonna get the whole world off crack? I do like the guys view of it fixing itself over generations. I think I'm glad I grew up when I did. Hopefully for the kids the future proves that a silly thought.
And there’s the solution no more smart phones to people under the age of 18
Exactly....and the fear of being "called out" on social media or emberrassed.
Mike Fletcher so your a crackhead ?
Joe “I think you’re 100% correct, have you ever done DMT” Rogan
This is what I was looking for in the comments
@@joeylemon1195 haha same here
Best one I’ve seen so far lmao
i love how andy said “someone with more horsepower between ears than me can figure that out” is the funniest shit ever
Great engagement, gentlemen. Well done.
I think more people are expressing anger issues into actions because they feel powerless .
Yup, if a child does it we call it a "Tantrum"
It's a hate crime to speak
@koolcat420 no one's laughing, you're adding sarcasm that's not there bruh. Go listen to Dr. King. He said a "riot, public outburst, attention seeking tactics is like a tantrum, it's the frustrated voice of the people yada yada" I'm paraphrasing but, go find the interview it's pretty relevant. no laughing
@de No it not. And dont bring the god thing into this. I can easily say. Xyz has happen cuz someone belief in a god.
It a mental issue. If you feel your life is only pain. Then at some point you'll see death a option. And its not a hard leap for may as well get paidback. Cuz deaths my release. That why most shooter pop thenselfs when there cornered.
I think legitimizing that type of thinking is what’s causing it. We’ve taken the “Rub some dirt on it” attitude out of the American male and we’re surprised when the kids can’t handle life.
To help prevent the motivation:
1. Get fathers back in the home.
2. Encourage in person social interaction. Sports, church, DnD group. Anything.
3. Rethink how we treat mental illness. Medication on a society wide level doesn't seem to be working.
4. Make secondary education about acquiring skills and knowledge, and not about socializing.
5. School choice. Whether through vouchers or easing of bureaucracy, giving families choice of where to send their children is never a bad thing.
6. Make early graduation more available. If they are smart enough to get a GED, they should be allowed to graduate early.
7. Don't punish kids reacting in self defense. Always punish the aggressor, and punish the responding student less or not at all.
The goals in addressing this issue should be to promote a stable home life, prevent social isolation, and give people a sense of agency and control over their lives.
But alot of these shooters have had both parents in their home and were from middle to upper class homes
@@torisefford989 Most don't have both parents. We know single motherhood is associated with an increase in mental illness and criminality. This is uncontroversial.
You should really be in charge of the school system
Church? Ewwww
#praisethesun
@@thattubechannel ,actually it is a mixture of kids from single parent homes,homes with both parents,and some a of mass shooters have had no hint of mental illness,or previous criminal background,...and there are millions of kids or people in general who have flaws mentally or were brought up by single parents who turn out ro be awesome people,so its extremely hard to tell these days. Like they its the ones that you think are untrustworthy ,are actually the one you can trust the most(&vice versa).. Its a tragedy ,life is..but there is good beneath all the evil.
Bullying is a real thing that can push a kid to the edge
try getting multiple people to doit at differant stages and locations over a week or so then there ya go oh and not caring for someones people in danger and letting them get rekt etc
So much wisdom from this dude here
Breaking points are breaking points. You’ll go far in life understanding and respecting where they are.
Preach
Lonelyness and social isolation. And very thin Line of succes and failure.
Absolutely, look at any of the shooters, and they are all disconnected from society
Agreed. Also, remember when you’re in high school....it’s like social acceptance is EVERYTHING to the majority of students. Teenagers are very unbalanced chemically. There’s so many facets to answering the question. A stable home environment is absolutely critical as well.
@@leecro83 I think another element (one of many) is that if you ask kids what they want to be when they grow up the most common answer today is "famous"
I think hes saying the answer over and over. If i wanted to in canada i could get 800bucks and buy a gun. What makes us different some access but mostly becsuse we socially give a shit about eachother at the end of the day
@@armageddonbound great point! There are just so many angles to the question. Ultimately we're saying it comes from your parents, from what we as society value, and youngsters being chemically imbalanced. It goes so deep and like Andy said, it's going to have to change generationally. I really like this interview. It's the first time I've heard an actual conversation about solutions and where it begins. Even the comments sections are robust today. My kids will no doubt learn about guns and gun safety, but it's also up to me to help them understand meaningful values, self worth, and what it means to be a "human" as well.
After reading the first hundred or so comments. I'm glad to see that more people than I originally thought actually understand what it is, where it comes from. The schools can take many steps to help end it; but, the most important and the most influential and painful thing for those kids are their fellow students.
This was such a well balanced and instructive conversation.
I wish more Americans had the ability to sit and hear each other out about these issues.
I can say turning schools into a dystopian prison system isn't the way to go either.
implying thats not what its already is
Schools are based on a dystopian prison system. Look up who created them. The same guy who designed prisons.
@@jekkt Not at all. Schools are bureaucratic, prisons are sterile
There is a shared responsibility between schools, and the public that pays for the schools. If schools are not willing to to shoulder part of that responsibility by taking CONCRETE steps to harden themselves (pun not intended), then it is unfair to expect that the rest of society must shoulder that burden. But the guest is right on one thing - the problem is generational.
Don't worry, schools will never get changed into a dystopian prison system because education always gets the short end of the funding stick. Schools barely have enough money to buy basic supplies for everyone (well, they don't, but teachers chip in out of their own pockets).
Parent are the first line of defense against motivation for this kind of violence . Being present in your child’s life exposes their feelings. Being responsible for your child’s feelings and understanding them is step 1!
Scott Zino underrated comment!
So true, but many parents have problems themselves.
CD M thats true. many parents have issues and problems. Its almost like the world isnt perfect.
Dammit man. It's a tradegy that most people do not realize how to raise a kid. The man never teaches empathy, and women never encourages. I do not know how to raise a kid but Dammit I know for a fact, the healing nature of a nonjudgmental ear to listen to the real them. And caring eyes to see them. And a loving touch with intent. It just seems people are detached or seem removed.
Some of these kids problems are caused by the parents and there are no laws stopping anyone from having kids! The obvious answer to the issue is access to guns...kids shouldn't have access to guns. Reduce access to guns! (But America won't accept that, ever)
14:40 to me this highlights how mental resilience and the acceptance (and occurrence) of failure should be taught in society. If someone has gone through life with success, sunshine and rainbows, then their life seemingly falls apart, they are going to be torn up inside and not know how to deal with it.
I’ve watched several of JR’s conversations with this guy. If you haven’t watched them, do it. Dude is sharp as a razor.
Any "solution" that doesn't involve training authority to figures to recognise signs of developing mental illness or distress, destigmatizing mental illness, early diversion towards meaningful help, eliminating the "kids will be kids" attitude towards bullying, and teaching young people to cultivate a state of empathy and compassion for others within themselves, is treating the symptoms while ignoring underlying causes.
The selfish leaders of the world only care about your money, not your heart... But myself and many others do! We should love and care for each other, people never realize until its too late how little time we have here. I'm going through very tough things in my head but i'm sticking in it to see what the end result will be.
A certain amount of bullying should be expected (you can't stop all of it unless you want to drive yourself mad). I think with more children being raised by single parents is part of the cause.
MrCherryzz why?
It doesn't matter if they're trained if they don't implement those teachings. I was abused, it was obvious to the teachers but they never said anything, never did anything.
@@MrCherryzz its more about non stop bullying then being a single parent
Joe R. has had his podcast since 2009. It's 2020. I have years of information to catch up on. Love this podcast!
I'd love to see those two talk further on this and maybe invite a psychologist in to have a good conversation. I think the ideal of time and lack of access to targets to mitigate these tragedies is a great starting point for potential solutions
Maybe Jordan Peterson would be a great kind to bring to this table.
I would like a documentary that explores the lives of school shooters and how they came to be that person. Which could help understand the mental health severity problem.
Americans have solutions to fix everybody else's problems but their own.
do it or we'll invade/drone/choke your economy, are not good solutions to other countries problems. these solutions cause those countries citizens hate USA, and worse case, creates terrorists who want to hurt USA. like Joe said while talking to this dude.... you hit someone, they will get you back somehow. it is not a solution. its why isreal and palistine will be killing eachother forever. palistine 'you hit me, i hit you back' - isreal 'you hit me, I get you back' rinse repeat.
You mean the American government. Americans would rather just mind our business when it comes to foreign affairs.
Bruceolini and his big weenie fax
do what i say not what i do
lmao
I was bullied over the course of the summer working at my school. I don't care about verbal stuff. I can handle verbal abuse. After a month of these two upper classmen twice my height bullying me verbally they decided to become physical. I may not react to verbal harassment. But you can't control a reaction to physical violence. They choked me, pushed me in walls, lockers, sprayed cleaners on me staining my clothes. Everytime I went home i had to make up an excuse to why I looked so screwed up. "I tripped and hit my face" or "I accidentally stained the hell out of my clothes accidentally." I did these because only b***** did that right? These seniors took time out of their shifts to walk around the school find me and hurt me. This went on for about a month until one day they asked me to help move a ladder and I entered the room and slipped. They poured cleaner on the floor. The bigger one stood me up and said "Listen here bitch, were going to break your fucking arm watch you scream and you can't tell because we're going to make you a cripple if you do." The bigger one had me in a choke hold and asked the other one to hand him a drywall scraper. He cut my head for about 5 seconds before I ran away to a bathroom. I cried and screamed as I pulled out a clump of my own hair and got a bald spot all bloody. I called my mom and told her everything. She told the school at which point they were fired but not even expelled because their parents were in the staff. I wanted to kill them. Bring a knife and stab one of them. To make them feel the pain I felt. I haven't done this yet but I struggle with this temptation to kill them every day. OK SORRY FOR RANTING THIS LONG but if you guys readed this feel free to comment your story's. You people are not alone. Don't do something that would put you on the headlines. Stay strong
“I haven’t done this yet” - yikes.
The "punishment" emotion, rage, and power.
“I don’t even feel like we’re having a conversation in this country. A lot of people are talking, but nobody is listening”....a very obvious, yet spot on observation. I think we need to start from scratch and talk about the fact that nobody is talking anymore. We just yell at each other
One of the best discussions on your show 👍
When a country has to employ surveilence and protection at its schools then that country has major problems.
Da Nile isn't just a river in Egypt. The country already had problems before you realized it
Navy seal man think everything a Bin laden house
Schools in the UK have that. No guns bro.
@John Failphins lol
Wen Country has sick cunts that wana shoot random innocents includin school age children, then therz a blatent problem
2:50
The 17 year old isn’t looking for a solution. The 17 year old is looking for the death and suffering of others; they’re looking for revenge.
You arent exactly setting yourself up to understand a mental health predicament very well
On the subject of school shootings, you need to interview LT Col. Dave Grossman who gives lectures to cops and soldiers based on his books. The first boook in particular deals with soldiers and killing titled “On Killing”. This book and subsequent ones he has written has chapters especially focused on active shooter/ school shootings and why they occur.
“I don’t understand how they could do that.”
Pretty simple 5-step process.
1.) You’re a weird kid. You were always aware you never fit in, but couldn’t understand how to relate to people. Some of them go out of their way to treat you like shit, while the others mostly think you’re ‘the weird kid.’ You never particularly wanted to be with any of them anyway, because none of them seemed to think like you did, but their maltreatment makes you start to hate them.
2.) This social isolation wouldn’t bother you as much if you weren’t also desperate for a girl, getting pathetic crushes with no chance of panning out, because you aren’t attractive or cool enough. This is hard to cope with as a teenage boy, and leads to self-loathing and anger.
3.) You don’t feel like you’re good at anything in particular, have no real passions, and no idea what you want to do with your life. While others kids are going out and having the time of their life, or accomplishing crazy things like becoming famous musicians, or working towards passions they’ve had all their life, you’ve mostly wasted your life playing video games in your room. You know you’re wasting your life, but can’t rip yourself away from them, as they’re the only satisfying thing in your life. You know you’re smarter than a lot of people, and could do so much more than what you’re doing right now. You’re better than those fucking normal, boring kids.
4.) You see all these school shooters in the news. You see the media demonizing them, but can’t help but see them in yourself. You see them as heroes. You start fantasizing about what it would be like. All at once, you get to blow away all those fucking people you’ve hated all your life, and become a legend. You wonder how many people you can kill, how you’ll do it, what it’ll feel like. You start letting people know your thoughts, and how people are going to take you and what you say seriously. You imagine what the media around you will be like. You’ll get his crazy sense of importance and meaning in your life that feels more serious and fulfilling than any other petty bullshit people think you ought to do. Because you’re a teenager with tunnel vision, you don’t have a good concept of risk vs. reward, the pettiness of your problems in comparison to what the future holds, or the idea that anything could get better without you needing to do something so drastic.
5.) You start making plans.
Jesse Bogdonoff Good for you man.
Ian Gregory really hope things get better for you dude, wherever you are right now and whatever grade you’re in you gotta remember that things will get better
@Ian Gregory high school is nothing like real life adulthood, and it's only temporary, i promise. Your whole life starts AFTER HS! Hang in there❤
The FBI wants to know your location
Jesus Christ "I have no skills I suck" also this same kid "I'm smarter, better, and funnier than all those other kids cause I'm special. Whiny bullshit.
Wow I totally respect his brutal honesty especially in the final moments of this clip. This is a huge problem and I think Joe is onto something with people having a lack of purpose and belonging. That is why, in my opinion, suicide in divorce is so high because people lose their purpose and identify... great discussion
From my opinion it a huge part of the problem stems from how labor is actually undervalued in out society. Be it back breaking work or just something low on the totem pole of sorts. People say stuff like go to college get an education and don't become a ditch digger and most hearing that would agree. But I don't because actual work being done is something that is needed and really seems to reached such a point that in sort of job the top tends to get rewarded when they succeed but when they fail it is usually those at the bottom who will ever feel anything and suffere from it. Which then leads to people feeling that they are nothing and worthless almost since society reinforces that through stuff like that line about college I mentioned above. That's not to speak I'll about educational and educating ones self but at the same time the constant societal reinforcement of one being nothing if they are are not on top or can just as easily be expendable to whomever they work for. Which then Hurts people the most when it just happens to them without realizing it and such. Of which much of this can be extrapolated to a bunch of there things in anxiety as well I would think.
Some people just want to live simple lives where they work a 9 to 5 job hopefully making enough to support their families then coming home and spending nights and weekends with said family or friends enjoying what could even be said to be a quaint live. And there is really nothing wrong with that but much of society is poo pooing that. Making far to many feel and live outside their means to possibly live to the standards many belive they should some for. So really if labor was less demonized I would feel it would cascade to many other things and then make much of everything better more sonic people were instead accept the value of it and how much it is actually necessary for the world to actually go round.
Maybe the internet is bad for people. Everything starts to feel pointless when you can look up someone who has already done everything you dream of doing. You can find the answer to any question you have. You can see everything. Not to mention to a young mind others lifes look perfect online and makes your life look like crap.
@Tom H
Nah, they just provide relief for people who already have depression.
T P good point!
DSD Divorce?? Naw,,, people are just horn dogs and don’t know themselves and think it’s a badge get or give herpes
Joe is really on point with that last statement.
Keanon Lowe a coach in Oregon HS disarmed a student and hugged him, in a conversation the kid told him that no one cared about him. It’s definitely starts at home with parents to notice what’s happening with the kids.
Everyone's talking no one's listening.
This is one wise dude!
www.whale.to/a/homicidesSSRISandADHDmedications.pdf
marylin manson said the same thing after columbine.. same thing
“No real way to stop this” - says only country where this regularly happens
We need to find a way to adequately deescalate anger, if it is not there.
Finally an adult discussion ab a serious issue
Great Vid! Definitely a much needed conversation!!!
Joe hit it on the head 14:52. Many people today lack the tools to deal with adversity and when things go bad, they fall apart. The key is to teach resiliency to our youth so that they can deal with the world when bad things happen, or when something does not go the way they anticipated or expected.
Americans don't like to admit ANY errors. There are many nails to hit on the head, includung:
1. Guns are to readily purchased
2. Guns are too readily stolen
3. High capacity magazines make mass murder too easy.
4. American culture accepts the devaluation of "other" humans and celebrates the outright hatred of people that we don't identify with.
5. American culture labels caring for other humans as an evil... "socialism"
6. Americans want most of the people who need mental healthcare to go without because that would be universal healthcare and that is evil (despite the rest of the western world figuring this one out 60+ years ago)
I could go on and on and on.
Like most of America 's bigger problems, nothing will change until you substantially reduce the amount of money in politics. Too many profit from limitless gun capabilities/sales (on the gun side) and illness (on the mental health side)
@@gbear67 Caring for other people = Socialism? On what planet does that make sense? Tell that to the Soviet Union or Venezuela.
Spot on. So well said Chris
@@coryr9938 tell it to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Canada, even UK - they are socialists and they are open about it, go visit them. Soviet Union, that I was born in never was socialism. That thing is called communism and these thing differ a lot. None of mentioned countries had gulags, mass murder, property nationalization, ban on free word. Calling Venezuela or USSR socialism is calling China democracy. There is no argument, this is fact .
Lithuania is socialistic country too - we have free education, free healthcare, social care, govt pensions. We have police, justice system, fireguards. All of that is covered by our taxes. We have strict regulations on arms, we had 0 school shootings, all gun violence is usually related to criminal world.
These who want to get at least a side arm has to go through training, medical psychological exams, belong to one of the hunting lodges, and have safe for storage of weapon. Also you have to do reexaminations time after time. This is gun control by civilized world.
@@raimondasbaranovskis9988 as a canadian, i can say that my gulag situation is great. I broke my hand once and got it fixed for free. I lost my job and got decent unemployement which led me to grants to start my business.
If someone is happy and secure why the fuck would he grab a gun and kill ppl with it? Dont teach more resilience, have social safety nets that are worth talking about.
How hard is it?
I taught my kid to not tolerate " Bullying " . One day he came home from school and told me he had to punch a bully in the nose at recess that day . I told him he did a good job and that I was 100% behind him . He told me the gym teacher saw him punch the bully and the teacher didn't say a word to him about it . Looks like the teacher knew the bully needed to be humbled .
How my father dealt with it. On point
It’s feeling isolated too. You can a lot of people around and still feel completely cut off from everyone. Alone, unnoticed and insignificant.
School shootings are a uniquely American thing nothing to do with isolation or whatever
I agree, the “something is wrong with everyone and give everyone a pill” is the biggest problem. Talking to at risk kids and discouraging bullying, you know, making them feel like someone cares, would be a big help in stopping these school shootings. I’m guessing that all of these kids would say they never felt heard.
Most school are giving out the message that “they care” already. But some dont put their words into action. Or if they do, its only to save face and doesnt get down to the root of the problem. Its discouraging. Even more so because its going from high to low. Do it only a few times and trust is broken. But thats just for now. Hopefully it gets better in the future.
Once I learned about the grief process (and that it was a process meaning it has an end) it became way easier for me to recognize the emotions I was feeling.
when i was a freshman i struggled with thoughts of shooting up my school and tbh it was because i was bullied, depressed, my social group was negative, and i felt like nobody understood me. and with me being 22 now im so glad i never went through with those thoughts but i look at school shooters as just kids that needed love and we all know how hard socially high school can be on people.
Andy Stumpf is a rare thing, a SEAL worth listening to.
Nobody every questions the kids that bullied the school shooter into committing the act.
It’s ridiculous.
Parents of the shooter should be questioned as well, nobody turns into a mass murderer without being influenced by the people who raised them.
RockyMarsh09 that’s a good statement.
Mentally stable and healthy people do not start killing others, when exposed to this kind of triggers. I agree that bulling is bad and should be exposed, but it's not like you can bully every person into committing this kind of act.
@@ph0ib0s1 It's almost like that kind of constant bullying *causes* people to no longer be "mentally stable and healthy" sometimes.
@Charlie Keiner What's your point, though? Some, but not all? Yeah, we know that already. Doesn't excuse bullying, we should still strive to end it. Otherwise, you're part of the problem for hand-waving it away as a non-issue.
Single mother homes,medicating kids with ssri's and demonizing boys,are some of the problems surrounding school shootings. also enough with the tell an adult when being bullied the only way to stop a bully is to stand up to one.
@Jasiel Rosas Almeida ain't no Mexican krips holmez
fire up the helicopters you are 80% more likely to end up in jail and end up in poverty if you grew up with a single parent
What correlation is there between school shootings and single mothers? Aren't women statistically less likely to own guns?
Fab StillSmokin blacks have the highest single mother rate besides American Indians so this most definitely applies to them as well.
You say "demonizing boys" as if boys aren't the ones CHOOSING to pose with guns on their facebook page. You let me know the next time a teenage girls guns down everyone in a church.
Joe ur really actually have great insight Andy yes defending is important
Why is it Joe Rogan podcast is one of the only places to find common Sense talk and solutions. The media ,politicians and more need to learn from people like this
Common sense is different for everyone you know....like hitler had a different one, not sure we can find truth in common sense
My son had issues just like we all did growing up,except i know it was tough on him because me and his mom separated.By the time he got to high school,his grades were lacking and his moral was down which concerned me.I took him to counseling and within the first meeting they already wanted to put him on medication.I was hesitant because i read into all the crazy side effects,but i love my son i just wanted to see him in a better place.Within a week or so of him taking the medication he told me he wasn't feeling right,i stopped the medication on the spot.That was 3 years ago,he's 18 now and doing much better without any medication .Yea he dropped out of school which i am not to happy about,but he's in a better place and doing a lot better.My son is a smart kid,he never ran with a bad crowd or did any drugs,he's just anti-social and needs to learn how to get over it which he is little by little.He actually has a good job in construction making good money and a girlfriend which actually made a positive difference in his life..
And that's why your kid didnt shoot up a school you were/are a real parent and cared about what your kid was going through. Although he didnt do what you thought he would it was with your help and care that he has turned into a successful human being. So congratulations on a job well done. I say this in all seriousness and with no pun or joking intended.
My best friend, church-goer, nicest man I've ever met was diagnosed with neuropathy in his feet. So, he takes Lipitor, an anti-steroid to help with neuropathy. Well, Lipitor affects nerves and slows their reactions, and it messes with my friend's mind. It gives him thoughts of suicide and murder vividly for 1 hour a day. He told the doctor, and they simply increased his MGs...
After research, I gave him medical marijuana and he feels better, no longer takes Lipitor, no longer has bad thoughts.
*i'm glad you saw the signs and took action. These medications are NOT safe*
Ive stopped taking medication that made me feel way off. Brand and dosage effect everyone differently and the doctors basically take a guess on both. So you may have to try different prescriptions. That said, its just a tool to use to get you where you need to be. No pill in the world can replace a caring and engaging parent.
Some kids get bullied for years, and snap. some commit suicide, some kill. either way they made the choice to stop it.
society needs to intervene before that.
Bullies on school playgrounds have existed for ages. I’ve always wondered if it has something to do with the fact that we mostly ignore people whom we don’t like or who make us uncomfortable. In Europe, if you say or do something socially out of line, you’re probably going to hear about it. At the very least, you’ll get the stink eye. Sounds unpleasant and rude, but I tell you what: you always know where you stand with people and you always have the opportunity to change. If you behave the right way, you get approval and you’ll always know it’s genuine. In the US, everyone’s supposed to be nice to you, no matter what, especially if you’re a kid. Sounds great, but being nice doesn’t mean being friends. The result is tons of misfits walking about because no one will give them proper feedback about their behavior, so they don’t know how to change to get people to like them. Because they can’t get positive attention, they’ll go for negative attention.
Having experienced this form of social punishment firsthand with Americans, I can tell you there are few things that could make me go crazy faster than constantly being ignored, especially when the reasons aren’t obvious. It makes you want to scream for the sole reason of trying to get someone to look in your direction and tell you to shut the f*** up.
i was bullied by teachers grades 5-12 and i was told multiple times by different principals that actions would be taken against teachers treating me unfairly, and when these punishments were supposed to come into fruition i was the one who recieved punishments for not agreeing with the teachers that were bullying me. I mean name calling, revoking bathroom privileges on a whim, making fun of me for asking for help from principals and my parents
To me the answer is kind of long, of course its my perspective
The short answer is society. Many boys are raised in a way that prepares them, not to fight an unjust society, but to live and tank through it, for example, telling a kid that he shouldn't cry cause he's a boy, congrats, now your kids views the action of showing emotion like weakness. That's just the start, the second issue comes when the boy is growing, the school system prefers a stereotypical girl, that's the role model for a student in the eyes of the school system, don't move, don't shout, stay still, you can't play that it's too rough, you can't run, so the boys now are being told that the way that they wanna act by pure impulse is not only wrong, but punishable,hes also told that because he's a boy, he'll have to face some unjust stuff and just take it, like the classic "you can never hit a girl" I was taught this too and was punished when I hit a girl back after she kicked me when I was younger. The kid keeps growing, and now he notices that society is quite unfair, putting in his shoulders lots of responsabilities regarding beigg strong and brave at all times, and when he's not, society questions his manhood. The double standards, people not caring, bottled up stress cause many reasons (bullying is a good example), everything starts building up, and there comes a point when he just breaks, and that's why I think it happens (also add to that moronic teachers incapable of seeing that a kid needs help)
I'm sad more people haven't seen this. This is the main buildup, add a bad homelife and depression and isolation and you got someone who will do anything for control. The media also doesn't help with giving the shooter fame and showing pictures of them
@@theajayy2258 yup, and sadly there are also teenage girls who fall for mass shooters and serial killers
one more thing I saw was that much of the shooters were raised by single mothers without any support system like other family members etc
You are wrong. We still tell these things to our boys but we dont have problem with school shootings. No man this something that America does alone and nobody else.
@@17MrLeon you are wrong, worldwide men have a higher percentage of depression and a higher percentage of suicide rate, and by a lot, I'm not saying balance it out, cause I don't want women having the same issue, but I'm saying there are issues worldwide, men issues also stay the same in all countries (pressure and expectation) the fact that you take pride on being harsh against your boys sickens me, hopefully that'll change in the future. I'm all out for discipline, not for cruelty
Something very wrong with a country that even has to consider having a security force at a fkn elementary school.
Charles Bolduc f living in usa
rather than a padlock on a gun cabinet
Something very right with a country that hasn't had an authoritarian kill thousands of his own people in the history of the country.
Yes second amendment is the mvp and an equalizing force
@@lmaolmfao3611 um thousands die of gun violence every year lol.
Albeit not strictly from the government but plenty from the police sure.
@@dougbrown6952 those are nothing.
And again those who have died from authoritarians are in hundreds of millions
Can't believe that someone trained to kill can't understand why a victim might have thoughts about killing their tormentors.
spot on. No one whether that be those in authority or the average citizen wants to deal with the people struggling and screaming for help.
When a kid is so bullied that they feel they have no hope, there is no way they can escape or make their environment better for them they believe the only way of making it stop is ending the others lives
Come to Greece to see what bullying means. Even the teachers here abuse kids mentally and physically but not shootings at all.
@@vasealis what do you mean? How are kids abused by teachers in Greece?
Actually the FBI knows why it happens. They did a huge study after Columbine. They found it was very very hard to prevent and detect. We are talking about very disturbed young men who feel they have no value and no purpose so they want the notoriety of killing.
I know people hate hoplessness but it it better than irrational fear that motivates the "find a solution" PR bullshit type stuff. The summary stats we have now arn't going to cut it.
Jim Kennedy that’s sounds MGTOW? I see a misogynistic, white male who believes in patriarchy.
A NATIONAL PROSTITION ACT WOULD FIX THAT , GOVERMENT PAID HOOKERS PRESCRIBED FOR VIRGINS INSTEAD OF PHYCH MEDS BY PHCYOLGISTS
Well Jimmy didnt the Parkland shooter post a comment about shooting his school and didnt the FBI have the shooter checked out as a potential threat to his peers and yet they did squat about it and now 17 students are dead, what can you tell us about your precious FBI now Jimmy?
No Zaoy. It was the police and the school. The Obama administration had sent out a letter limiting fed funds for schools that did not improve detention and suspension rates. So neither the school nor the police filed any charges on the well over 20 times the Parkland shooter would have had charges filed. So when the background check happened there were no arrests to deny the sale. But regardless one anecdote does not make data.
Figuring out the solution is easy to figure out, you guys said it in the first few minutes which is when I paused to write this, IT IS ALL OF THAT. ALL of the possible solutions and problems you have mentioned so far need to be addressed and solved. The medication issue that Joe brought up is very interesting and something I can speak about. I have been suffering with depression for a long time and when I finally realised, it then took a long time to seek help and then it took a long time before I got the Right medication that has made a difference, I am at least out of the pit of no return. The problem at the beginning was the first few medications either didn't help, or made things worse, much worse. And when you think you were already feeling as low as you could get, and then something shows you that this god damn pit is way deeper than you thought, THAT just crushed me.... and I was an Adult.
Now imagine you are a teenager, a teenager in todays world that has so much more stress and pressure than I had to deal with 30 years ago. Imagine you're dealing with bullying, except now they have access to you 24hrs a day, there's the news, not just local news with 5 minutes of international news, but 24/7 international news on every bloody horrible thing that is happening everywhere. When I was a teenager I wasn't worried about my future that was something that would sort itself out, imagine with the access to all the information we have now if kids still feel the same, or if worrying about their future might be a little terrifying for them in our current climate, no pun, but also pun intended. Probably the Only thing that kids today could relate to is the last thing I wanted was to talk to an adult about ANYTHING I was having a problem with, no matter how much it was affecting me.
Now imagine you are a bit of an outcast, or maybe a total outcast, you have no real friends, adults around you are useless, you start paying attention to politics to see if there is ANY hope for the future.... well lets just hope they Don't do that.... they feel more and more isolated and irrelevant to the world around them, and the world around them seems to be crumbling at a faster rate every day. Imagine how much anguish and terror they must feel.... how much anger they may feel inside at the people they feel is causing their pain...
So now, Someone Notices, and they find themselves with a Dr telling them take these pills and you will feel better..., but they DON'T.
Imagine, if you are reading this, you are a 16yo boy, the pills that were supposed to make everything better have just shown you that your deep dark pit of fear, hopelessness and anger HAS NO BOTTOM, maybe you feel you are free falling, or the last tiny ray of light that you let in is now gone forever. Imagine you Blame yourself for being so stupid for allowing that glimmer of hope to creep in, you feel so much Worse than before and so scared and angry at a new level you didn't think could exist in You... I Did.... and I was an adult.
Now imagine how easy that could turn to RAGE!!! REVENGE!!! RETRIBUTION!!! And who do you think you might direct that towards?
NOW IMAGINE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A GUN.... maybe many guns, semi automatics for Christ Sake, and as much ammo as you can carry...
Do YOU think that YOU would be in control at this point? And remember, it is also possible your parents think they are doing the right thing by Making you take your medication every day because the Dr told them it may take several weeks before you feel better.... I stopped taking mine because I recognised my rapid decline, but I DID NOT go back to the Dr for a long time, and I was an adult. I was over 40 at this point, and that was my solution, but all my anger and hatred was directed at myself at this stage, and I got to a point where there was No More Doubt, No More Fear, my destination made sense, and I am very lucky to be here now. I wonder how I would have reacted if I was a teenager, and if anything would have been different IF I had been taught how to handle, AND had access to an arsenal of weapons and ammo?
So yeah, I think medication can be very dangerous, but in the most extreme cases it could be CATASTROPHIC.
But, it is NO MORE of a contributor as all the other factors you have discussed, from BOTH sides of the argument.... except the NRA, those people need to be ignored, not because they are stupid, but because they have A MASSIVE financial interest in the outcome, they will NEVER care how many children die in your country, Even if it is Their Own child, they Still will NEVER support changing ANY laws or so called rights, there is way too much power and money involved. With that much bias, how can you possibly allow the NRA to even put forward an opinion, let alone any influence on policy.
By the way, in cases where it has been shown that the kids that have committed these terrible crimes, have endured years of being tormented and ostracised, physically and mentally, why have the kids and in some cases teachers, wether the teachers have contributed or just ignored it, why have their roll in the problem never been discussed? I realise that these kids are the targets a lot of the time and obviously also victims, the latter making it a sensitive issue for those families, but that does NOT mean it should never be discussed. How can other kids be educated that treating people that they think are weird or different, as if they don't have a right to be there or that they don't matter is WRONG. That kid may be weird because he is ALREADY suffering and needs compassion. The weird thing is that kids, and yes Even Teenagers, can be extremely caring and compassionate. I AM NOT suggesting that these cases be used to tell anyone, this is what happens when you bully.... but, if it can be shown in an educational way, what the kid was dealing with, what other kids thought about him and how he was treated, how bad did it get, for how long, and if THEY think he deserved that, can they relate to anything that made him seem weird to his peers at his school, have they ever judged or treated someone in a similar way, and what do they think would be the affect if THEY were treated like that by a particular group of kids, sometimes by many kids, and ignored by everyone else even the teachers that are supposed to help. If presented in the right way maybe we could make a difference, and in time maybe it could get to a point where this this type of behaviour is NOT tolerated by the kids themselves.
Ok so this ended up a little bit long and no one will ever read it. But, if a kid reads it, or anyone older I guess, and you can relate at all with your own struggles with depression or anger or both, PLEASE ASK FOR HELP, there are many anonymous help lines throughout the world in the country you are in, or reply here. If I see it I will try to help, if I can't I will at least listen, and remember if you can read this YOU are NOT alone, you CAN get HELP.... AND it IS worth it, YOU ARE WORTH IT..... as am I.... and I never thought I would ever think that. Yay me 😀 I had to end on a smile 😊
The one thing i would of added about the mental side is, to these people want to get help? In a lot of case, and personally speaking, your will goes a long way, the longest way. If your asking me, kids should have specific classes that teach them about mental health, and another on how to live with it.
That being said, for all of you struggling right now, dont give up your fight, take it a day at a time and chase happiness, whatever that is.