Jordan and Destiny Agree? Free Exchange Is the Best Solution
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- čas přidán 27. 03. 2024
- Dr. Peterson and Destiny discuss the complexities of income distribution, state intervention, and the efficacy of free market systems.
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One can find things to both agree with and disagree with in both "sides."
But there's a more important element to this discussion which is being overlooked.
This is precisely how two grown adults can disagree with each other, but maintain respect for the individual.
In a world where "opponent = enemy", this is a refreshing change. Being able to disagree without being disagreeable is a state to which, I think, is worth aspiring.
I'm willing to bet that the moment "destiny" went on his own show by himself, he had some "disagreeable" things to say. Things he wouldn't say face to face. I personally find this guy to be a very one sided, selfish individual.
It's a fact how decent adult debate fell to the wayside in society ...
how people used to be able to have disagreeable discourse without attacking the other personally or becoming irate
But actually have a healthy debate, an exchange of thoughts, ideas etc...
rare today...so I enjoyed when this full* talk became a passionate adult* debate
@@helives2630 lmao psych analysis andy much?
@@helives2630 you know what assuming does brother?
@@helives2630ironic how you are doing the thing that contrasts the comment you are replying to
Destiny really needs to clean his room
got me lol! 😂
Very much so.
...and stop letting other men have intercourse with his wife, now ex-wife.
I don't know about his room, but he certainly got his clock cleaned here.
His wife is too busy using the room with other guys. His wife's BF needs to agree.
Man, this is incredibly refreshing. Both parties exchanging clearly their beliefs on different matters and then attempting to rectify those together against the perceivable truth. I'd watch this kind of content every day
Do so. It changes you.
Huh? Destiny tried to sound smart but was intellectually bankrupt
They had a decent conversation.
WHAT?!?!?
Thanks to Peterson
It went to shit when covid came up.
Peterson fully committed to covid conspiracy.
@@reubenmcmurray4377lol “conspiracy”.
@@reubenmcmurray4377 right, like the fact that the vaccinated could spread it? Or vaccine passports? Or the unvaccinated being variant factories? Or that here in Canada the vaccinated were spreading it more? Or the lab leak theory? Lmao
I’ve watched a few of these clips. It’s seems like this guy Destiny is over his head with Peterson. One of the clips, Peterson I think said it perfectly, that arguing for the sake of winning a debate is not a good approach whereas debating to get to the truth should be the point (something like that). Destiny does not seems to only be focused on winning a debate.
He’s very disagreeable, and he’s a degenerate
After reading this comment I'm not sure if you meant Destiny is only focused on winning or if you meant the opposite 😂
@@manuam98 your 100% correct haha
@Drogers8675 ?? So which is it. Looks like your last sentence might have a typo or you just switch gears suddenly.
@@ott6428 come on man, Peterson was trying to educate this guy. Peterson for the win.
Dr. Peterson❤
A good and decent discussion. Nice work.
It would have been better if Peterson was talking to someone that was more sincere in their pursuit of Truth rather than being eristic.
@@jessequest8575Yeah, he should only talk to people who shares your personal truth. That is called an echo chamber. It is rather funny how peoples critique of a subject, often just tells on themselves.
I think it's good when people are listening (or at least it seemed like he was listening) to what Peterson was saying. The man has too much wisdom to share and I think everyone will benefit a lot by being a good audience.
I really enjoy listening to how
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson breaks things down with common sense!
I love the fact that Destiny can be quiet and respectful. This was a very refreshing conversation with him involved. He usually just tries to overwhelm people but he knows not to try that crap here.
His insights are just phenomenal!
Destiny is a fairly smart guy who has lots of opinions, but is rather low on facts. As the great Thomas Sowell puts it, he's "high education, low information", though I'm not sure what the guy's actual education is in this case.
Self educated. Hes decently well read, and obviously spoken well enough, bro needs to update his facts and opinions
Jp is way smarter.
He's smart but still a dumbass
@@user-hl9fr3ur3iIt isn’t intelligence as must as the efficiency of his approach over a lifetime.
His maturity makes him insufferable. He is the definition of a man child.
Thanks!
WOW $100k donation?
@@MrSoloTronbro is a company.
In Norway - Scandinavia - we produce almost nothing in factorys anymore. 60% work in the state. 60% of these know that they are doing a job that does not need to be done. The only thing we export is raw materials. Oil, gas, whole fish, timber, raw electricity and some metall. Not finished goods except parts for cars and for weapons. Our homes are mostly built by others. We import inflation and have a currency that has lost half of its purchasing power compared to the dollar since 2003. Norway is a worse example than Canada. Imagine what happens in Norway when fission energy is solved.
Thank you for this information.
Would you be willing to extrapolate on what you predict will happen to Norway if nuclear energy is made tenable?
@@TheRealPDizzle Yes. In Norway, the bureaucracy is so extensive and the opposition to nuclear power plants that it will take 15-20 years to be allowed to build something like this. In Norway, we have among the world's largest deposits of thorium. There are fully developed reactors that could have been built. But the opposition to mining is so great that almost nothing is extracted from any of the minerals lying in the ground. The state owns all rights both on the ground and in the air. But we don't need nuclear power plants. The authorities own 90% of the production of electricity from hydropower. They have ensured that almost no investment is made in modernizing or making these power plants more efficient. Tax revenues are more important. Without EVs, we have a surplus of electricity at a production cost of less than 2 cents. We export electricity rather than produce things in Norway.
I’ve been irritably wondering why on earth Dr. Peterson bothered with this twit, but now that I’ve thought about it, I think this conversation was absolutely in Dr. Peterson’s character. He is known for his mentorship of lost and confused young men. He knew he wasn’t speaking to an equal; he was trying to reach and educate a young man, who is very lost and confused, and who has a good deal of influence, because that’s his heart. It isn’t about whether or not Destiny is worthy of attention and everything to do with the burden for young men on Dr. Peterson’s heart.
And ditto for his conversation with George Janko.
So true. Still tho, I skipped this episode
I can't tell if this is just DGG trolling
Actual clown comment.
Destiny thinks he is smarter than everyone else, totally lacks humility. he will never learn anything.
Destiny, like anyone else, is a mixed bag, but he really is willing to have a good faith discussion with people.
Yall ever seen “Rango”? It pretty good
Heck yeah. Underrated gem. Made me fall in love with spaghetti westerns, as somebody too young to have watched any while growing up.
with johny depp? great movie
It is the single greatest piece of cinema that has ever been created. A masterpiece from beginning to end
You mean The Good The Fear and the Loathing?
Destiny: "I don't think redistribution is an issue"
Jordan: "It caused the death of 6 million people"
Destiny: "Sure..."
???
When someone says sure like that they're just affirming that they understood what the person is saying. It's an intellectual way of respecting the other individual in a debate or conversation. You may use sure as "I agree" in regular conversation but that's not how it's used in this context.
@@jayvbooth
So;
-" i don't think it is an issue"
-"It caused de death of 6 million people"
-"I agree"
Something like that?
@@alonsostange1He obviously didn't mean that, come on. Don't be disingenuous.
Too much of many things is a bad thing. I support Jordan with much of his work, but Destiny clearly isn't advocating for a full-on soviet command economy or collectivization. To suggest he is, is as bad as Cathy Newman or any other left wing ideologue claiming Peterson is a Nazi. It's just foolish. Let's be honest. Both Peterson and Destiny are in favour of a mixed economy, but Jordan airs closer towards (but not all the way) Hayekian minimal-state thinking, while Destiny airs more towards a neo-Keynesian view. Peterson doesn't support zero welfare - he's a Psychologist for heaven's sake and so supports the idea of vulnerable people having some free access to a minimum level of state-supported psychological support. Destiny obviously goes further, but he's as much a Stalinist as Jordan is Hitler, which is to say not at all.
I agree with the other commenter. “Sure” is just an acknowledgement here.
If Destiny is saying “sure” in the “whatever” sense, he will always say “okay” with an upward inflection, indicating he’s done with arguing and that he thinks it’s a stupid point. He does it only once or twice in this whole interview and does it all the time on stream.
Go Jordan!!
Why does it cut before he tells you?
Im blazed but interested, so much so I had to watch 3 times because Everytime Jordan would start talking I would space out 😂
Jordan you need to talk to Charles Eisenstein!
He’s a senior campaign advisor for RFK Jr. and a very interesting author, namely of the books Sacred Economics and Climate: A New Story, The Ascent of Humanity, and The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible.
Jordan is totally Right in what he said.
Dr. Peterson DESTROYS Mr. Borelli yet again
@@123Lookatmrlee Its a Meme, Dr. Peterson always "Destroys" people and Destiny is now know as Mr. Borelli because of his participation in a podcast about the Israel X Hamas war.
But yeah, I like them both, but in this case, Dr. Peterson was too much for Destiny, but yeah, they do agreed in many things too
@@123Lookatmrleethe full length podcast was basically just Destiny reciting off fake news headlines and talking points he’s read online and then being debunked by JP, followed by some word salad.
At one point he claimed that literally no one ever claimed that the C19 vaccines would prevent transmission of Covid
As per usual with a lot of well meaning lost folks, they understand the symptoms but prescribe the wrong antidotes
@@jgt07 Not that hes "lost", his life is very much ok. But I think hes just cannot let go of some leftists tropes and "baseline" hate for the other spectrum. He automatically put Jordan in a "dislike" list and so he tries to argue even when they agree just to show to others that "hes lefty". Idk, just seems like it
To be fair, Mr. Botticelli was decently charitable throughout the convo
You may not be able to account for negative externalities perfectly. But a decent approximation is better than nothing. If a factory is leaking toxic waste into a river, then a charge which is slightly too low, or slightly too high, is still better than no charge at all.
Uncle Jordan ❤
❤😂❤
Do better than being in a personality cult. It's shameful.
What do you mean by mean?
I can't stop focusing on the abnormal hand gestures. The weird claw hand thing..
JP has a mind that just cannot be matched! But kudos to destiny for trying.
This was a great debate. A mutually respectful, reasonable discussion despite differing opinions. So rare. Most people just attack Dr. Peterson. Respects given
This changed my mind about Destiny. In this interview he showed a different side of him. Most of the time you see these heavy armed discussions with lots of emotion that ofcourse triggers more people (gaining more clicks). I saw a side of Destiny that was willing to be open for a logical discussion without much emotion attached to it, and he was able to most of the time, which made me really enjoy it. Even though it got heated a couple of times, both parties understood where they went to far and toned down a bit. This is how discussions should be done; not as robots, not as emotional wrecks, but having a balance in which they understand eachothers downfalls and positives and again, are open to discussion instead of having to prove their point.
So how does it alter your view of him?
9:12 Surprised to find that Shazaam doesn’t identify the music at the end. Does anyone know what it is?
darude - sandstorm
dajude - gazastorm
Mozart Symphony #41 in C major
Kudos to Destiny for putting himself on the line to be challenged on his model of the universe. We all learn when this kind of friendly debate happens. Your future looks a little brighter in my mind as you grow and gain wisdom. This was very mature of you to do.
Wow. Does the world look brighter to you because of Destiny? Wow. Humans are useless great job forcing one into the world.
It mostly started with Trudeau's father whose genius idea was to create a "free" healthcare for all Canadians.
He lacked the foreshadow of how Canada would change.
The massive flow if immigrants in the last 50 years and how that program would not be viable without sacrificing quality.
lots of folks ready to shit on destiny. been watching this dude grow for almost a decade and now hes sitting across from peterson and shapiro. i value his commentary.. even tho i certainly disagree with him.. im happy for him.
Destiny: “I’m actually a free market capitalist”
Also Destiny: “The government should control everything.”
The government protects a free market. You didn't know that?
@@trevineleven LOL!
@@trevinelevenmaybe decades ago
@@petewick8627 That's a moronic fantastical statement.
You're not living in socialism, dude.
You don’t know much about Steven lol 😂 that is NOT what he is about at all. He’s a social democrat NOT a leftist or commie
Ego driver people are usually good at becoming succes, but rarely good at debates, as they always track off into fighting and argument for the sake of winning
Title lol
Mr Morelli!
He doesnt even adress the correction of reditribution
Free markets are intrinsically unfair, but they're arguably way less unfair than relying on the state to meddle in economic activity. Capitalists that bring goods & services to market have to operate in reality when conducting business or else their enterprise goes under. Governments have the unearned privilege of being able to run deficits in perpetuity by virtue of their position while contributing nothing of substance.
Almost all of the "problems" with capitalism are a direct result of government. Sure, you probably need some basic safety requirements... But outside of workplace safety, the government should have very little say. Most monopolies aren't the inevitable result of capitalism, but of artificial government barriers to entry.
@@JustADudeGamer i agree... Which is why the government should have as little power as possible. You can't be corrupt without the power to do so.
@@JustADudeGamer I really almost entirely agree with you. I think we are probably beyond fixing. The biggest problem is that we've built a house of cards on fake fiat currency and an economy built around debt. Should have never happened... But that baby is born. The only way to fix it, is to let it crumble, which is inevitable. But will be apocalyptic.
What you're saying is not an issue directly caused the death of 6 million people
"Sure"
Y’all should read Sowell’s ‘Basic Economics’. He basically said what these guys are saying like 30 years ago.
1:15 Alice Springs Australia right now. So damn true.
Free markets or involuntary collectivism?
Gee, the answer is right there in the names.
Absolutely stunning there is *_any_* divide on this.
Dr. Peterson continuing to crank out these clips to own Destiny - It's a delight.
(I'm only half-joking)
Thank you, Sir, for your vast array and amount of competency.
Density just doesn’t cut the mustard, as most recently confirmed in his Lex Fridman debate
Lorraine, I am your density.
Well he's young, but trying. That's very good in my opinion.
Well, it doesn't do any favours that he's on the left. All of their arguments are based on fallacies. Anyway, it's just motion of facts. So he doesn't have much to work with. That said, he's pretty crap. for someone who's supposed to be at the top I think there's a bunch of guys sitting at home behind their keyboard that can talk circles around him.
And Lex is no heavyweight either. There’s a core level of corruption neither will explore. Jordan was slow to it as well but circumstances have forced him to see it and righteously react.
Its the butterfly effect. The idea that there are so many variables, that it is impossible to calculate all of them from a centralised perspective.
JP is so BLOODY smart! 😁
Computers are likely powerful enough to perform computation by this point. The problem is deeper: the computers don't have the requisite inputs. The information is created by free market interactions. Your actual preferences are only discovered when you go out and buy stuff. Before that, it's just theoretical fantasy. You don't know your own real preferences until you have to carefully consider how you're going to spend your money and finally make a decision.
Is that a Schema Monk blazer?
This debate is just ridiculous.
Anyone who thinks there is any economic system better than what we used to have in the West, should be forced to spend 5 years in a socialist country and see how they like it there. This debate has always been so ridiculous. Literally every single country in the entire world that has embraced a free market economy has within two generations created more wealth for the entirety of their civilization than they often had in the hundreds of years prior to that.
I hate this debate so much. You have inequality in every system. The difference is to which extend you have it and how many are affected. The only reason why there sometimes seem to be "less" poor people in SOME socialist countries, is because there is so little wealth to begin with. But what is the use in everyone having equally little wealth if it means you can barely sustain your life or in some cases even just slowly starve to death.
Capitalism makes the "pie" to distribute much, much bigger. Sure, a small minority may take a massive chunk of the pie, but the rest that is split between different members of society is still multiple times larger than in any other economic system, because their pie is just a tiny slice of a capitalist pie.
There is no debate to be had. We have over 100 years of data and well over 100 case studies from all over the world that all prove the same point. Capitalism makes everyone richer - just to varying degrees. And even the poorest in a free market economy are still way better off than the poorest in any other country.
capitalism is for sure the best system. like you said it has created more wealth for the entirety of their civilization than they often had in the hundreds of years prior to that.
BUT. no one in this argument is arguing for the dismantling of that system. the only difference of opinion is how much the "economic freedom" should be unhinged or controled. Capitalism under Roosevelt is not the same as under Reagan. The basic system is still the same though.
And under every possible metric you can see that the best capitalism was the one that was there with Roosevelt and not the one that has been pushed by Reagan that is throwing alot of the population to have a level if welbeing comparable to the beggining of the industrial revolution.
@@ricardofurtado6358 I agree, and I wasn't trying to argue in favor of pure capitalism. I actually see benefit in state intervention in specific areas - particularly in those that most would deem too valuable of a public good to let them be run by private companies - i.e. the big 4 I always say MUST be in the hands of the public are: Education, Healthcare, Transportation, and Utilities i.e. power production, water, gas, oil...
The reason why this debate upsets me so much, is because every single time there is one side that argues for MORE state intervention. Like it always only goes into one direction. The only country in the entire world that I can think of where they are actually going back on state intervention at the moment is Argentina. Everywhere else the state interferes more and more. And I personally believe that especially in the West, we have already gone way past healthy levels of state intervention to the point where we are now so far away from the core principals of a free market economy, that I struggle to even call it that.
I mean I can literally not think of a single activitiy in my private life where the state isn't somehow involved. I cannot buy what I want, I cannot use my property how I want, I cannot even SPEAK how I want, etc.
It pisses me off that there are STILL so many people who think we should give the state even MORE control. At what point will this society completely collapse?
My parents and grandparents grew up in socialist economies and it saddens me whenever they talk about how much they feel more and more reminded of those times...
We are in the process of crippling our economic system to the point where it may not be repairable - yet we have people arguing for more and more control.
Not necessarily in this debate and between those two, but overall this is how the discussion often goes.
Christ JP supports can’t think out of the strawman leftist they invent for themselves. Destiny LITERALLY calls himself a capitalist and believes in free market ideas, he simply also believes in government institutions and programs that have been proven to work time and time again in capitalist counties.
Agreed and well-written. And people with low incomes have opportunities to move up in a capitalist system and become wealthier.
What’s funny is that anyone that had actually read Marx would agree with you. Theoretically a communist revolution is supposed to occur once everything has been built by the capitalist economy. Socialist countries try to skip this step and usually starve the country in a hasty attempt at industrialization. So in a way those advocating socialism are doing it incorrectly as well in addition to being terrible economic planners
I shared this and he said He's so smart they'll have to tape his lips shut when he dies shut up❤❤
Ok... let's be real here people. In his mother's basement playing video games, that's where Destiny belongs.
I used to try to tell people that the economic system the United States started out with wasn't Capitalism, but Free Enterprise, where most people owned their own business, whether it was a small farm, apothecary, whatever. You had a few apprentices in trades who worked for someone else, but that was temporary. Today, the word Capitalism is used far too often and the system itself is Crony Capitalism where only a few dominate most areas of commerce and they collude with one another in many, many exciting (sarcasm) ways with each other, with big government and with big bureaucracy. It's a tight little union of the haves against the have nots and it actually functions very similarly to communism/socialism. Far right/far left are largely interchangeable.
The problem is really philosophical. But Jordan Peterson gave a good explanation. The core problem is that most people do not understand philosophy.
The war is on perception and consciousness itself.
The jabs were a huge part of lowering peoples defences.
They just do what they want now with impunity.
As off-balance as *some* of Destiny's opinions are, this was a great conversation. Also this clip is spot-on; Canada has become a wasteland.
Over the last few months i dont dislike Destiny as much as i thought i did. I always just thought of him with blue hair and being obnoxious about abortion. The last few talks I've seen him in i thought he came across a lot more willing to talk than i thought he was.
He is not an idiot, he is however an ideologically blinded fool.
He's actually literally one of the most good faith people in the public intellectual space
My guy is killing it with the blazer
I wish Christopher Hitchens was still around, I have a feeling, no a conviction, he would find most of Petersons arguments as wanting as I do! I think the 65% income tax needs clarifying, is this income tax plus a stealth tax? I believe Canada has graduated income tax, so 65% income tax, on the middle class, seems inaccurate.
It includes post-income tax like GST, PST, carbon tax etc.
I wonder if the CCP wil be able to train an AI to solve the computational problem
Destiny should change his name to Captain Blithe. It has a nice literary edge to it, and is evocative yet accurate.
I actually think that at some points in this debate, destiny started having a conversation and was actually listening to Jordan Peterson. I genuinely think Destiny started to realise that Jordan had some valuable wisdom and insight. I could be very wrong but i actually think something clicked for him here..
You can't be pro-free market and think redistribution is not a problem. Those are incompatible. A free market is people deciding for themselves what transactions will occur and under what terms. Redistribution is someone else deciding that transactions occur and the terms.
You’ve gotta give the devil his due. Very few people would be able to stand toe-to-toe with Peterson here.
Perhaps Jordan can tell us why Germany has a bigger economy than Canada.
When Peterson checks his blind followers like destiny checks his chat,...
Free Exchange Is the Best Solution...unless it's Candice.
The lesser problem is having the computational knowledge to diagnose and pivot. The bigger problem is that people allow their partisan bias and personal benefit to get into the way.
Wow, the difference in level of intelligence and knowledge is really distinguishable between these two.
Peterson describes why monogamy exists. Hypergamy in women drives the pursuit of high status men. If you have the top man with a bunch of top women, you have the bottom men with few choices for mates....groups of young, angry men make for social problems
The primary and focal goal of The Constitution is to preserve FREE MARKETS. That includes education and healthcare. Review my short book how to save the world in under 50 pages for a detailed proper interpretation of The Constitution where you find podcasts.
“What do you mean by leftist”That was such a weird point to fixate on instead of continuing the conversation
It is completely obvious to me that Destiny is out of his league with Dr. Peterson.
Destiny states he's for free markets and then also redistribution with the same minute. Real intellectual powerhouse, this guy.
Free markets is still redistribution of wealth.
While I give Destiny credit for sitting down to have the conversation, he never really had a chance because the bedrock of his entire ideology is built on wet sand.
How do you go about redistributing wealth without a command economy?
How would they have taken from the kulaks if they didn't have the legal right to?
Taxation. Do you live in a command economy rn? Your wealth is being redistributed to social security every paycheck. They took from the Kulaks because they were stronger than them and wanted to curb their ability to rise against them just like how the British tried to wipe out the Irish during the potato famine by forcibly exporting wheat from Ireland to England for sale.
@@badart3204 So all they did was tax the kulaks???
whilst JP is great, Destiny is clearly also very well informed compared to the average. He's no slouch in his own right
lol
The best thing is that Jordan Peterson reaches to several people with different political or cultural views to help both him and us to get a better understanding of the world.
Jordan gave destiny just a big spanking the entire debate
This kid Destiny is WAY out of his league talking with Jordan Peterson
The computation problem is actually not well explained by the both of you. It is not such that it is just a matter of not being able to gather the data quickly enough, the problem is that the subjective valuing of people can not even be quantified. If you forget that last point, socialists will say "aha, but now we have computers, so we should be able to do it now!"
Here is how you evaluate what Destiny says.
First, assume he is very smart, and everybody else is relatively stupid.
With this clarifying premise, then you will see that Destiny is not arrogant but elite, so if he sees it it is the truth and it is wise.
Destiny is secretly admiring JP he just doesn’t admit it
He's clearly on the right, but trying to play the enlightened centrist game or somtn close to it, he thinks left leaning ideology is just big welfare state like in scandinavia. What peterson is saying is if alleviating poverty is the goal, economic growth does a better job of it than redistributing wealth.
Punishing one group for being innovative and highly productive, while rewarding another group for being nowhere near as productive or completely unproductive creates perverse incentives and actually makes society worse.
That's plain and simple common sense.
I think most of this was just educating this young uniformed streamer
Destiny is almost bright enough to get a B in a course taught by JBP.
One slight problem with what the interviewer calls socialism/communism they like democracy DO NOT NOR EVER HAVE existed.
This was a pretty annoying conversation on JP's side. I came here to see an educated discussion and got an uninterrupted JP monologue in the first half, and the second half just JP constantly interrupting to try to command the discussion. This is very much a far left debating tactic when they start losing
Peterson has been doing this for the last 4 years. I cant stand it. Used to be my favorite thing to listen to but now he just blabbers without thinking.
As much as I hate destiny and love JP, I do respect Destiny for taking the challenge of debating Dr Peterson. It does take balls.
Your use of love and hate here says a lot about you.
Young people. Hilarious. Peterson has LIVED 30 more years and seen so much more. You just cant compare the experience
Destiny, mentions concepts like he's explaining something but is devoid of conclusion or support. Hollow
the guy said, I'm pro capitalist, pro free market guy,
also, in the next sentence, I don't think redistribution was a problem in the Soviet Union
He's talked about this at great length, actually written manifestos on it. The problems in the Soviet Union, Maoist China and so on . . . . they had more to do with total centralized and artifical (governmental) takeover of not only the means of production but the entire productive apparatus. This isn't 'redistribution' it's total control, takeover, there are not any disparate entities vying for power or competing in any organic way. Destiny supports an organic free market but believes that the inevitability of asymmetrical winnings lends itself to some POST-production redistribution.
So under Destiny's view, we're not overhauling or corrupting the freely-producing apparatus, we're just taking the wealth of the results (the products themselves) and redistributing them to help the marginalized or to compensate for negative externalities.
Peterson's argument is that 'redistribution' was what was taking place when farmland (means of production) was taken from the wealthy (efficient) farmers and given to poor farmers who had no idea what they were doing. There is definitely an argument to be made here as well, but it only captures a part of the Stalinist ideology. It's what Destiny was calling a 'command' economy, and he was agreeing with Peterson that it's not organic. But a command economy is 'redistributing' the apparatus itself, whereas Destiny's model is redistributing the wealth it produces. One takes freedom completely away, removes the right to private property. The other doesn't.
I have no idea who the guy Peterson is debating with, but he's referred to as "Destiny," which I'm assuming he wants to be called to increase his capital wealth as some sort of entertainer. 🤔
It was his online handle when he started his career at 12
After JP's series of meltdowns a couple of years ago, i find that has emerged as an overall superior version of himself
I could not possible disagree more. He has become far less incisive and far more ideological.
The guy doesn't answer a single question honestly
In fairness, dude had no chance. His parents named him Destiny? Their son? Poor kid. But you can’t fix stupid.
I don't see either Destiny or Jordan Peterson "owning" one another, in this discussion. What I see is two adults finding points of agreement, and noting particular points from the other. But I didn't see any kind of dramatic penetration.
Destiny said that the problem was not redistribution specifically, but rather, total centralized command economies. He also said, as Jordan Peterson has said before, that we live in mixed economies, where there is both redistribution, and free market. The reason he is protecting redistribution, is because things like public roads, public schools, and medicare/medicaid, all of these things are redistribution, and they do not lead to the deaths of millions and millions of people, as the soviet centralized command economies did.
I don't think that Jordan Peterson is against mixed economies and all redistribution, because he happily got his degree at the public university the University of Alberta, and taught at the public University of Toronto. At a minimum, his acts demonstrate support for the redistribution of public funds to education.
Destiny is a worthy foe
Well...
Destiny has freely exchanged his wife.
That exchange may not be so good for him, but it seems to be to her liking.
Could you let him answer or cut a better stamp?
I don’t get the hate Destiny is getting. I find him reasonable and smart and just trying to get to the bottom of things. Some Peterson fanboys will hate just about anyone who debates against Peterson just because
This guy says a lot of words, without actually saying anything!!