IT COULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER! The Story of the Williams BMW Years (2000-2005)
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- In 1998, Williams signed a deal with BMW which meant that BMW would supply engines among other things. The problem was- That not long after the deal was signed, pretty much everyone involved with the deal was gone and was replaced by people more focused on dollar (Euro) signs than they were on racing. Which is never going to work- I call it the Boeing Effect.
So Williams had to design a good car, BMW had to design a good engine and it looked like BMW was focused on beating Mercedes and making money than they were about actually racing. Results yesterday, and all that stuff.
So what happened? Let's have a look.
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That 1400 HP engine should be around 1700 HP adjusted for today's inflation 🧐
Only 1700?
Inflation really has slowed down; huh?
What do you mean only 1800HP? Clearly you are underestimating these 1900HP engines
1 MW max. = 1360 CV 1.5L I4 single turbo. 1986 (max turbo pressure = unrestricted).
1950-2006 max revolution per minute = unrestricted.
Imagine telling someone at the end of 2003, that Williams wouldn't contend for another championship 20 years and be sold off by the family.
After 2003 imagine telling them in the next 21 years they would win only two races
They would have called you crazy
Sad but true
rip :(
Maybe not at the end of 2003.
But over the course of 2004 & 2005 it really did feel like they would never be championship contenders again and were destined to slowly slide down the grid as Lotus & Tyrrell had done. (That ominous feeling began in 1998 for me & never went away, even when they started winning again in 2001.)
As far as I'm concerned they were & will always be the greatest F1 team of all time, a blueprint for what F1 & its teams should aim for. They went from joining F1 as a new constructor to dominating the '80s & '90s in such a short time. They took over from Lotus as F1's great innovators. Like Lotus they were an engineering led team, but with the roles split. Engineers maybe don't make the best businessmen, but Frank was a seasoned F1 & motorsport businessman who understood engineers and had Patrick Head by his side to do the actual engineering.
Old enough to remember when Tiff Needell drove a Williams BMW against VBH and the sound energy from the engine was enough to distort her car camera
At Rockingham! That was a classic.
That was one of the best episodes of Fifth Gear. A classic.
i remember that. it was loud enough to scare vicki off the circuit too. i love vicki by the way. she's great.
@@sultanabran1 she has her on youtube channel now...I think...and yes it was a great clip
It’s impresssive that despite the problems of the car Montoya elevated Williams during the time he was around. His time was short but the impact that he left was strong
That’s why I’m a huge fan of him (until this day)
One can only Imagine what Montoya could've done if he was signed for Williams for '97, which was on the cards for Williams at that time. Imagine Villeneuve vs Montoya in that Williams-Renault, I would argue that would've pushed Villeneuve much harder given his character to the point where Schumacher would never have even been in the picture for '97, especially considering Villeneuve apparently seriously hates Montoya. Would've been some proper Senna vs Prost shit, probably ending in fisticuffs at some point.
Greatest talent who never got a championship.
@@F-Man I'd say that's Stirling Moss personally but JPM was very good until he was demotivated by McLaren imo.
The Williams BMW relationship was a troubled one at times. Williams blamed BMW for reliability, and the BMW engineers put a picture of a tortoise on top of the Williams car in their office. BMW thought they could do a better job themselves and bought Sauber only to realise it aint so easy building a good F1 car. Very interesting vid as always.
Need i remind you that BMW FUCKED Williams hard in each year after their split in 2006? Since BMW knew they couldn't do it all on their own, they were clever enough to pair up with somebody who could give them what they needed to return to the front row, which was Sauber. Making it back to the front rows isn't easy, however Sauber, unlike Williams, was happy to properly cooperate with BMW to keep improving the car on and on and on and that worked. Yes, the new rules package coming in in 2009 didn't suit the BMW's that well in its first season, but BMW still outperformed Williams who kept going on down the drain..... So thanks to BMW Williams returned to a fair amount of success, but unlike BMW, who improved their issues with the engines, Williams was too stubborn to admitt that they no longer knew how to built a fast car and hence didn't improve themselves in time and lost the partner that kept them really successfull...
Tbf they were actually better then Williams after the split
In 03 they would say the best BMW engine was seen Monza 01.
It's funny how every 2000's manufacturer failure can be summarised by what Timo Glock and Eddie Jordan said in EJ's and DC's podcast. Manufacturers care too much about their image, and business to do any risky maneuvers in a world where you have to push forward every single day. They are way too hesitant and no matter how many facilities and money you have and spend, if you won't push forward you will be nowhere
When you have the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mentality, that's probably why
@@Limegreenedragon Yeah and if you won't win then blame the team
Uh oh, you Made an allegation Against Boeing. Don't let their Hitsquad See you...
I never accused them of making unsafe planes I should be okay. 🤞
@@AidanMillward Remember Aidan isn't sucicidal
@@AidanMillward tbf it's not disputed or controversial to say that they made unsafe planes - the 737 Max killed 350 people and wasn't allowed to fly for almost 2 years. It was a death trap, that's just a fact.
Williams never recovered from the loss of Adrian Newey, they had the best engine (BMW) but the aero department was very conservative. And when Antonia Terzi did do something innovative with the Walrus nosed FW26 they didn't persevere with it. She left the team when the car reverted back to the conventional nose.
8:44 - That restart, when he showed zero f**ks to shove Schumacher off the road in Sao Paulo, was the moment I went, "This is my boy now that Villeneuve's left."
I’m I grew up in Seattle, the old home of Boeing. The McDonald Douglass merger has become a local legend for how it destroyed the global leader in commercial aircraft. We’ve all hate Boeing for years now, even before all this recent mess.
Very cool car and video as always!!! All your videos have helped me so much develop my love for the sport and knowledge of its vast past present and future. Big congrats as well on your recent surpassing of 100k subscribers many more to come!! Many thanks, cheers🎉
Oh shit! That’s quite the donation! Thanks a lot!
@@AidanMillwardof course thank you for all the entertaining videos :) you can go get some coffee now😁
10 bot comments and only 1 real sofar, man they love your channel
Always said I’d rather them say nice things than spam onlyfans links.
Fun fact. Ralf is on record as saying Jenson was the only teammate he actually liked. Which I found odd as he did write a very nice tribute to Damon Hill is 1998 teammate when the latter announced his retirement
Respecting someone doesn't really mean liking them tbh
@@thesfdoctor3603 Maybe not, but I got the impression from reading what he wrote about Damon, that he did somewhat enjoy his year with him despite what happened at Spa
Truth be told, Ralf was famous for being a difficult person. Especially towards teammates who beat him in track
1:30 Coincidentally, the Williams-run Renault BTCC team also had a livery change - from their classic blue and yellow to Nescafe brown - and had a similar downturn in fortune (albeit still winning 4 races).
You won’t believe how much I grew to love your intro music over the years 😂😂😂 like I have to whistle along. No question about it
TBF, if it hadn't been for the 2003 tyre change, I think they'd have won the championship. However, I think the rest would have stayed the same.
If i remember right the 19 000 RPM was in 2002 with Montoya record lap in Monza. 2003 was the best season i think ive ever seen. 2003 BMW engine is my favourite F1 sound ever heard.
10:39 Your Star Trek references are never lost on me. Quoted in DS9 by the great Weyoun to Damar as Damar was internally beginning his rebellion and Weyoun noticed he got his confidence back.
Works in context here too. Great job as always Aiden 👍
those williams liveries were so nice
The only team who used two German manufacturers for their engine suppliers
Mclaren with the Tag-Porsche, and now Mercedes?
Funny thing is, the Mercedes engines were always built in England but despite this they've still used two German built engines (BMW and.....Toyota)
Will sauber count in 2026?
@@meirl5700 I'd say they should as I think I recall Audi building the engines at their Ingolstadt base.
I'd have loved to see at least one WDC come out of this partnership or the one with Sauber for that matter. I will never forget the hotlap of Montoya at Monza. Just the sound of it...
"Look at Boeing"
You have to admire the audacity of a company who is having so much trouble with aircraft going ahead and launching a spacecraft.....only for it to end up stranded at the ISS.
Oh wait, according to the last press conference they had, the astronaut's are "not stranded" - they just don't know when they're coming home.
a plume of white smoke after racing off early is how i remember them as a JPM fan
Great story telling 💪👌
I think we should start referring to Renault, Mercedes and Ford as Mecachrome, Ilmore and Cosworth because lets be honest they did the hard work.
I love this car. I have the 2003 FW25 Press Kit on my coffee table (It's nearly an inch thick). This car is always what I drive in the legacy packs of Codies F1. Montoya and this car were made for each other.
The intro of the video reminded me that I started listening to Adrian Newey's, "How to Build a Car" on the way to work in the morning on your recommendation from who knows how far back in your catalogue. Fantastic look at him and his life as well as behind the scenes of the races, especially at the time.
Well now we're going to need a Williams-Toyota video...
Didn't know there was that little time between Newey leaving and the BMW deal. Imagine a Newey-designed Williams with powerful BMW engines in the early-2000s. Schumacher and Ferrari were always going to be hard to beat, but in this scenario it should have been possible at least. They came very close in 2003 in our timeline. What caused BMW to lose the edge, by the way? Interestingly, BMW were more successful with Williams than on their own, despite their criticism.
I love that Jordan flew under the Irish flag, fills my heart of the glory days of Ireland in F1. Nice Star trek reference too!! another great vid, thank you.
Lol loved the star trek reference good 1 aidan
BMW Williams
Cool Livery 😍
Inconsistency ☹️
Genuinely thought you called the guy “Fuckin’ Millberg” for a second there.
Was like “Jesus, what’s he done to get THAT reaction?” 😂
ooho cna't wait for the bmw saubuer era story time
The missed opportunity for Kubica in 2008 after BMW decided to abandon car development following the Canada victory despite Kubica leading the championship and barely putting a foot wrong that season whilst the 2 main title protagonists kept slipping up. Only for the 2009 car to be a dog car for most of the year and for BMW to leave the sport at the end of the season
Last i heard, that engine used carbon vapor deposition to over oxygenate unicorn farts, while praying to the mechanical gods shrine, that thing made 2200hp, 4000ft lbs in quali mode...
760hp/350ftlbs race mode
Unicorn farts are rare yall
😂😂😂
Williams biggest mistake was letting Adrian Newey walk away
I seen to remember BMWs Mario Theissen going off in the press, bagging the race team publicly
Montoya should have won in Brazil but was shunted out by Verstappen. I was so annoyed.
Tbh Montoya didn’t do himself any favours with how he past Verstappen. And it wouldn’t be the first time he did those sort of action vs a backmarker. See Turkey 2005 with Monteiro
An incident at Brazil involving a Verstappen, imagine that..
Williams Also helped with 1999 Le mans Winner LMR V12.
Brilliant Andorian reference, but imagine Shran as a team principal.
Garak orchestrated AD 21 with Masi. All it took was a seven time champion, a Canadian pay driver, and the self respect of one FIA race director
I don’t know about you, but I call that a bargain.
@@AidanMillward Bravo!
@@AidanMillwardI salute you
BMW did have one person left who understood F1, Gerhard Berger was BMW's Motorsport Director and oversaw their entry into F1. Well one of them, Mario Theissen was also Motorsport Director. Theissen was also highly ambitious and wanted to be an F1 Team Principal himself. Berger's contract was not renewed after 2003, probably not a coincidence that this was when BMW's relationship with Williams began to fall apart.
BMW actually wanted to spend more on F1. They wanted to replicate Mercedes' relationship with McLaren and put a lot of money into Williams... in return for owning a stake in the team. But Frank Williams was fiercely independent & refused to allow anyone new to take a stake in his team. (He might also have been wary of Theissen's ambitions and concerned he could be pressued into standing down as team principal.)
With Berger gone, Mario Theissen was pushing hard behind the scenes for BMW to have their own team, so they could invest as much as they wanted on F1 (spend enough money=championship win, the classic manufacturer's fallacy - but F1 didn't work like that) and he could be its team principal. This undoubtedly contributed significantly to the deterioration of relations between Williams & BMW.
(Frank later conceded turning down BMW's desire to invest in the team was probably a mistake, given the new manufacturer era F1 was in at the time. Although his decision may have been better for the long-term, given what happened to Sauber when BMW abruptly left F1. Even if BMW only owned say a 30-50% share of Williams, them pulling out suddenly could easily have caused the team to collapse.)
I liked the 1999 Winfield livery so much as it used some flow viz effects for great gradients. Just like the ppg Penske livery in INDYCAR for the most recent years (even if the main color ist sky blue)
the Rothmans livery was so iconic that my mum literally calls the team "the rothmans team"
Wasn't the main reason the Michelin tire was deemed illegal because as the tire wore the contact patch width became wider than the regulations allowed. If I'm not mistaken, there was a period when tires had to have all the grooves of the tire visible to prevent turning the tires into slicks.
on the beyond the grid podcast. there's one with mario theissen. it is awesome, and he talks about the development rate and power gains per season. fascinating. worth listening to for sure.
Alex Zanardi's life and career would be a great story for you tell
I think if the relationship was way better, they wouldn't be as successful as they were with Renault but they would've made the early 2000s an incredible 3-way fight and all three would've certainly been pushing each other.
Interesting as always! Have you watched Montoya the younger in F2? His driving style seems somewhat ... familiar, and I'm not quite sure his opponents can always see him, but they might also be blind or stupid 😉
Watch? I was beating him in the lockdown races. 😎
@@AidanMillward Ah, to be able to state one has beaten Montoya in racing - without elaboration!
Williams-BMW was like the Tottenham Hotspur of F1.
Supposedly Mario Theissen and Patrick Head also never got along, with both being very passive aggressive to the other. Also didn't know Antonia Terzi had passed away, RIP.
Was in a car crash about three years ago
Frank was a disaster at picking drivers. Williams also never really updated their systems after 1999.
How so?!?
Unless Nick Wirth built already the chassis for the BMW team and then it was later sold to Andrea Moda (yop the chassis)
Also after testing the engine with the FW20. It was clear that the engine was already reaching the end of its lifespan. In 99 it was already decided that they would start fresh for 2001. Lets not forget they also didnt believe that they would go over one race distance. As the engine wasnt holding while testing.
I need a Montoya video.
Would you like just Juan or more than Juan? \m/
Looking at those 2001 results I forgot just how unreliable the cars were back then. Ferrari definitely had the most reliable engine even the Prosts with the Acer rebadged 2000 Ferrari engines did well at least with Alesi anyway lol.
Always liked the blue and white liveries, and assumed it was to alude to the BMW badge
i get quite upset when i think back on what Williams was and how it all went wrong. they had it all, but it was just a bunch of bad decisions one after another until nothing was left... im hopeful that James will bring it back somehow 🤞
BMW have got form for being hard work. Brabham got through lots of engines from 1980 in testing, so even by 1982, Bernie would only run one car as they were still unreliable and hedged his bets running a DFV for Patrese. Things got to breaking point at the ill fated Canadian GP with BMW ready to quit if Brabham persisted in not running both cars with their engines. Fortunately, Piquet headed a 1-2 and the DFV was not to be seen in the back of a Brabham again. However, after winning in 1983, BMW weren't happy with progress at Brabham with both sides blaming the other for the lack of success - though this wasn't helped by Bernie's 'deal' with Pirelli - and the deal came to an end. Being a Williams fan, I was always concerned that post Newey, the cars might not be enough for BMW and their relationship with Patrick Head was so bad, BMW insisted he was replaced with Sam Michael if memory serves me correctly, though it was said that Head was a back seat driver from that point on. I think it was 6 of 1 with BMW and Williams, as neither of them were quite good enough. Great video.
I remember *The Race* commenting back in 2020 that Williams had a great engine with BMW but it was bolted to a 'Not-so-great chassis.' Ouch!
Which is why I said the car was an engine merchant. As soon as it had to do more than three laps the tyres were shredded.
@@AidanMillward I also watched where The Race said if Williams had given Adrian Newey what he wanted which was made him feel like he truly part of Williams(maybe even a small stake in the team if Frank is to be believed) he might’ve been persuaded to stay when BMW came calling and I personally think a Newey designed Williams powered by BMW would’ve been sick!
On revisiting some races, it is clear that the fia helped Ferrari.
Despite BMW’s whinging this is my favorite era of Williams. Not the most iconic, but eh. And they were pretty good too! Hoping they can finally get off the back of the grid properly for a whole season, not that they’re likely to do that soon.
Considering how unreliable the cars still were in 2002, M Schumacher's run that year was insane.
Pierstreider (Fishtrouser)
Should have given newey those shares. It all goes back to that. And Patrick head. He was too old, and living on old glories by the time bmw came knocking. Frank dernie said as much in his podcast
Imagine if BMW partnered with McLaren instead of Williams during these years.
Anyone who goes into Formula 1 expecting to make a profit does not know how the sport works.
A shame that BMW pulled out. I always wanted them to have a proper works team without Williams or Sauber.
Bernd Pischetsrieder's downfall at BMW was his disastrous decision to purchase Rover (reportedly known internally at BMW as 'The English Patient'). BMW massively underestimated the investment required to keep Rover going as a car manufacturer, made worse by their inexplicable belief that Rover was a premium car brand people would pay a premium for. Rover desperately needed a huge amount of investment to develop a whole new range of cars & engines, as not only were their existing platforms outdated but they had to pay royalties for most cars & engines they made to Honda (greatly reducing their profit margin).
BMW actually did rather well out of buying Rover, the whole purchase of Rover Group was really an exercise in Vulture Capitalism. Yes, Rover cars was a money pit which they had to eventually offload effectively for free (plus a £10M dowry, although that saved having to pay a vast amount of redundancy pay). But they got what they most wanted - the 4x4 technology from Land Rover, which they could use to enter that market themselves with the X5. And they did a good job of asset stripping the only profitable part of Rover Group - Land Rover - and selling it off to Ford. Without Land Rover, Rover cars was doomed anyway.
My dad had three rovers. The third was a 2002 one and it was an absolutely awful car.
@@AidanMillward We had a 1992 Rover 200 with a huge mileage from 1995 to 2003. (It had been clocked twice before we got it, at leasted 50k miles removed each time! At least 180K true miles in 3 years before we got it.)
First car we ever had which didn't suffer badly from rush. Very reliable too, thanks to its Peugeot turbo diesel engine.
But those are about the only good thing I can say about it - a very bland car with poor suspension/ride quality, just like a Honda (which is what it was based on).
Why no on is talking about Renault? Is it longest running engine in the field? How come that the corporation that won not that much, and not so represented on the markets still investing in f1 and actually winning multiple championships, even though no one think of Renault as "sport cars manufacturer"?
would argue that the tyre changes didnt affect the outcome: both usa gp (where montoya ran into barricello and was penalised.) and japan gp were both rain races where the tyre changes that was about the dry tires, didnt affect. Ferrari won as their intermedietes tyres were far better, michelin didnt have inters but only wet tires.
The race in Japan was bone dry
@@nathanturner5186 and JPM's engine went pop, as it did in Austria when he was on for a win or a 2nd. However being a major supporter of his, I would still say he threw away a win in Melbourne and also possibly Montreal when he spun. Kimi fans say it was his title but for reliability but the examples I have given for Montoya's non dropped points or non-finishes would have given him at least 20 points more and the title.
In 2003 Ferrari didn't win because of Michelin's tyres, they definetely won because it rained at Indy
10:38 Pink skin! ô.o
“Tell Archer we’re not even anymore! He owes me!”
It was Bernd Pischetsrieder
7:00 you’re brave calling Boeing out like that
such a dumb comment on multiple levels
@@T.E.S.S. it’s a joke, learn to take one.
@@voldanmalak learn to make funny ones
Williams BMW is a classic case of too many chiefs, not enough indians.
Andorians? Don't you mean the Breen?
Andoria is a very cold ice moon.
@@AidanMillward 'Nice Pinkskin!'
Here’s to hoping Williams goes back to a real German engine maker and gets a championship with an Audi power train in like 4-5 years.
The BMW engine in that period was by far the best engine on the grid. Williams simply made incredibly poor decisions and it was no surprise when BMW packed up and wanted to run their own team.
6:07 Yeah, you completely got Pischetsrieder's name wrong, but thou shalt be forgiven for it is hard enough to get right for native speakers. The correct pronounciation is something like Pishats-reader (with a very short a)
Who's Mark Hughes?
Journo.
6:12 You didn't get it completely wrong, but you lost the plot at the end. It's pretty much "PEA-chats-reader" (with a slightly slurred "ch" in chats).
Moar Brabham content plz
Come back on Saturday when I'm racing for the esports team ;)
Wow you were earlier than some bots 😮
It’s quite simple….Frank and Patrick never wanted to give up any control, even if it was actually in the team’s best interests.
Oh what Williams could have been has Adrian stayed.
No Rothmans no wins \m/
2:05 I’d love to understand the move from Blue, white and gold Rothmans to Red Winfield from an advertising perspective. Did it actually work?
From my completely ignorant perspective, I didn’t like it at the time time, (I was young). And also Rothmans just sounds cool doesn’t it? It’s on the championship winning car you go from that to Winfield (Mission Winnow anyone?) and everyone knows that the Red cars are Marlboro Ferrari so it just confuses the brand (especially on those old tvs) it certainly confused Murray Walker a few times! Or was that the point to get at Marlboro?
Success or failure? Does anyone know? I’m always amazed the tobacco companies put as much money in as they did to be honest.
As far as I know being a non smoker and only 8 when those red williamses were running, Winfield wasn’t sold in Britain.
williams ended when they got rid of newey and or let him go. the same with mclaren they got rid of newey and hamilton left. mclaren has been nowhere until the last couple of years when they exactly copied the redbull. williams down downfall started when they were too cheap to pay nigel mansel. they are like permanent mercedes for 2 years they thought the zero pod was gold. turns out they were completely wrong and had to copy the redbull like aston, mclaren and ferrari.
McLaren and Williams were robbed in 2003.
100% Williams hubris and stubbornness fumbled the bag here and oh yeah, Williams has always been shite without Newey. This is why BMW is one of the most successful auto manufacturers in the world and also why Williams race cars are rolling chicanes nowadays.
money greedy pencil pushing spreadsheet wizardy practising rectal acrobats are the worst .....🤣🤣🤣 right after some nutcase customers who dont have the slightest idea what they want but yesterday was already late.
Patrick Head and Frank Williams - chief architects of the team's decline. Villeneuve winning the title despite Head's best efforts... Montoya and BMW engines... squandered opportinity. Inherenet inability to to secure engines and sponsors, refusal to become a factory team under the utterly pathetic notion of independence and patriotism. Signing Zanardi, signing Button*....
*Sorry, but Button is an also ran, his title is purely accidental... he only won races when Brawn had a competetive advantage over the ENTIRE field due to the double defuser... designed by Honda. Once the field has equalized, Button did not win a single race and the team had to sacrifice Barichello to ensure Button won the title against Vettel in a car that was vastly inferior to Brawn.
Sorry, but Button was worthy of a title, he may not have been the most exciting driver (and sadly sounds like an 80's DJ these days) but he was a strong teammate of several leading drivers of the last 20 years. Had a great feel for changeable surface conditions hence Hungary 06 and Montreal 2012. He lacked aggression when needed though.
Montoya had all the talent in the world but sometimes was impatient.
Yeah, when was F1 not a game of politics and agendas?
It was around 2001 that I started following Formula One full time and it just so happened that the first race I remember watching was the 2001 San Marino Grand Prix, won by Ralf Schumacher in a Williams. For that reason, I've always had a soft spot for Williams.