Nintendo, The Industry, And The Attack On Emulators (The Jimquisition)
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2018
- / jimquisition
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Nintendo is clamping down on emulation, causing sites like EmuParadise to cease doing business. The game industry hates emulation almost as much as contemporary piracy, so this is good news for executives.
It's just a shame that, in a world without emulators, the industry doesn't care at all about archival, or offering a service that could begin to compete with what ROMs were doing.
__
Twitter: / jimsterling
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I think the example of Mother 3 in this video is a very important point that the industry overlooks FAR too often. There are MANY regional exclusive games which garner large fanbases internationally all because of emulation - many of which have been acknowledged by Nintendo themselves, and have caused them to make action to release those games in the US when they had otherwise not considered doing so.
Holy shit, DidYouKnowGaming???
And sometimes its even funnier with the European market. Looking at you, Final Fantasy.
Mother 3 is one case I just do not understand. There’s a solid localisation already. Just do a QA run to make certain nothing violates policy and legitimise it. There’s no cost to host it on an eShop and let those that wish to purchase it do so.
Europe and Australia are usually overlooked completely and there are soooo many games that never arrive here and you can't order them from USA due to coding. Emulating older games are pretty much only way to play them. :/
I would love to play a legal english copy of the GBA Fire Emblem 6, Binding Blade (and other older FE games), but since Nintendo wasn't localizing Fire Emblem at that point it's up to fans to provide that content.
Seriously, pirating a game that you literally can't obtain through any legal means is the very definition of a victimless crime.
@@tgirltouhou with exception of Somalian version of piracy
Dont know if anyone cares but if you are stoned like me during the covid times you can watch all of the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. Have been watching with my brother for the last few months xD
@Cody Kameron yup, I have been watching on instaflixxer for since december myself :)
@@tomaszzalewski4541 Somali piracy is good, actually. poor people getting money from rich people who have funded/fueled decades of civil war in Somalia.
The only way to beat piracy is to make it easier and more convenient to obtain your product legally than it would be to pirate it. At the end of the day, the consumer just wants to play your damn game.
gog.com
In those companies' wet dreams you'd be legally obliged to give them all your money for nothing. Games? Pah.
Exactly. I would love to play old games on the Switch, but they're not there.
Meanwhile, no evidence it was nintendo, but I have evidence that it wasn't.
GOG is a great example of a company going out of its way to legally bring back older/forgotten retro games to combat piracy/preserve gaming's history, but it only focuses on the PC side of things. Would be great to see GOG push more for retro games not released on PC to get ported to GOG or the PC in general. Until then though there is still a large amount of retro games you cant legally purchase.
Emulators are cool. I'm not even going to pretend I use them for "game preservation". I just think games that are 20+ years old should be public domain, and I don't feel bad about pirating them.
(Also, feel free to pirate my games when they're that old... or if you're poor.)
Agree. If it wasn't for Disney all the games with over 25 years would be already public domain. But hell no, Disney could not accept their bloody mouse would be public domain, you know, like all of those books and stories they used to make their movies.
Copyright laws are a joke now, an awful joke.
Your profile picture adds humour value to this otherwise agreeable comment.
My thoughts exactly. Big companies and corporations pretty much killed public domain. They will gladly use whatever got in there decades ago, but will never give anything back. That's why I don't really feel bad when I pirate something that is over 20 years old. Though I'm always ready to buy my favorite ip's when they're re-released in a modern, elegant way with a proper price tag.
Wait a minute did you make the flash games with the cute slimes?
Hey, nice to see you here! Agreed, Matt. Definitely my thoughts. The reason being, many movies and specially books and songs are out there for free for the very same thing.
Oh, and hope the next Epic Battle Fantasy is going alright! Love your work
Hackers do what Nintendon't.
This made me laugh out loud.
Make sure Sega gets it's dues for that joke or you may get sued :(
The concept of "abandonware" should be introduced. If something is not available through legal channels (other than re-sold copies) you should be able to use emulators etc. legally.
In a round about way, it kind of is legal. If a company does not protect its copyright for a period of time dependant on the type, then they lose the right to sue when it's violated.
Major publishers have been allowing abandonware for many years. For examples, you can download the firs two Elder Scrolls games for free, as well as the original Command and Conquer and Red Alert. That's right, EA is actually being more consumer-friendly than Nintendo here!
@Hyper Potion
True, but still its not universal rule of law around the world.
I think this is the reason why some companies are so ferocious about protecting their IPs. If they could just start selling it again, and resume protecting their copyrights - I'm sure they wouldn't mind ignoring abandonware.
@Eville Caston
It's never completely black and white :) I think ultimately companies don't care about what is wrong and right - they care about making money.
The concept of copyright should just go back to 28 years, like the founding fathers intended.
Thanks to Disney it will likely keep being delayed. And things like Trademarks push that up into the stratosphere.
Jim, you forgot a very important aspect: emulation can just improve old games in various ways:
- quicker loading times
- customisation and the ability to experiment with settings
- additional benefits (not depending on the physical copy of the game and the console)
- the ability to save your game whenever you like (especially useful when the original checkpoints are rare due to technical limitations)
- additional content (mods, patches that allow e.g. unlocked fps or high resolution texture packs)
- better image quality (features like widescreen support, antisatropic filtering and antialiasing, better resolution)
some vids illustrating that topic:
czcams.com/video/SNJ56-U1s78/video.html
czcams.com/video/qyl7aJ0EAcA/video.html
conclusion: *sometimes emulators simply provide an enhanced gaming experience, better, than the original console ever could*
Valid point, yes, but have you ever spent 3 hours tweaking settings in ePSXe so you can not only see underwater, (with the wavey effects) but also hear the music and voice acting fully while keeping the framerate at 30fps in Gex: deep Cover Gecko?
I haven't, because I gave up. Time is the real price you pay for emulation.
Not to mention games that never received a release or translation outside of the country they were made for. All but one of the 7th Dragon games are available in english now and one will likely come out at some point because of this culture. The final one was recently brought over but Sega wasn't gonna bring over the DS and PSP ones at this point.
Same goes for Monster Hunter with Online and Portable 3rd, Shin Megami Tensei If, and plenty of other games and game series
The original 7th Dragon also received a version that lessoned the tediousness of the game to make it more in line with later entries, and that was made by the same person that translated it and it's sequel.
you are right about some stuff
I own portable 3rd preordered there were sites to buy it and psp is not region locked also own god eater 2 but I still agree that emulation makes it possible for anyone to get things that are hard to get more available.
I believe that games do it wrong nowadays because people who cannot afford should still have access and when they can they support the IPs that have meaning to them which would translate to "Go play whatever might interest you BUT when you can make sure that you support what you love" this mindset is not shared by the 'WE NEED MORE MONEY' or the 'I paid for it then or a lot and you should not have it if you can't pay what I did for it' people
These are all more reasons why I am pro emulation. Not only is it preserved, but in most cases, actually improved, something the creators who abandoned it long ago usually never do.
Antidepressants don't erase my sadness, and they certainly don't make me happy. What they do is make me functional.
Mist Sonata thank you for getting that important distinction out so I didn’t have to.
There’s this idea that ‘happy’ should be the baseline state of a person that is also as wrong. Happiness is a reward state, not normality.
What most of us want is just to get through a normal day without fighting ourselves at each step.
Welp, I'm not an expert in neuroscience, but being "functional" in our capitalist world is often being forced to do things that puts you in huge stress, so if instead of criticize the system you just pop up a pill to get through the day then you are starting to get a different, more moral sickness(to say the least, because those things also generate addiction)
I guess that's the point of the game, but if they delivered it in a clumsy way...that's their fault.
NaikiBASCrew Bro, being "functional" with mental illness has very little to do with capitalism and being able to function within that system. It has more to do with being able to get out of bed; being able to feed yourself; being able to shower, being able to leave the house; being able to be around people without falling apart. Someone who is neurotypical takes all those things for granted. Realize that people with mental illness may be completely unable to do one or most of those things without taking medication to adjust their unbalanced brain chemistry. Also realize that we would give anything to be neurotypical.
Even on my medication I'm perfectly able to appreciate how shit the world is. If I'm not on my medication, I can't see anything past my own broken brain dragging me down into the abyss.
In short, please stop this shit. It has a huge part in making people who needs meds deny them, which then leads to them committing suicide. You say "I'm not an expert", so STFU and keep your uniformed and harmful opinions to yourself.
I said I'm not an expert in neuroscience, not that I'm "neurotypical", and as a fucked up person as I'm, I wouldn't give a shit to be a stupid normie.
Also, stop saying "mental illness" so lightly, you may have a little disorder, but not an "illness", it is an important distinction in the DSM, you can go to the wikipedia and read it by yourself.
This is a copy-paste to save you time:
DSM-II (1968)
In the 1960s, there were many challenges to the concept of mental illness itself. These challenges came from psychiatrists like Thomas Szasz, who argued mental illness was a myth used to disguise moral conflicts; from sociologists such as Erving Goffman, who said mental illness was another example of how society labels and controls non-conformists; from behavioural psychologists who challenged psychiatry's fundamental reliance on unobservable phenomena; and from gay rights activists who criticised the APA's listing of homosexuality as a mental disorder. A study published in Science by Rosenhan received much publicity and was viewed as an attack on the efficacy of psychiatric diagnosis.
By the way, medicine plays a huge role in the capitalist economy, so saying it has nothing to do with the system makes me fucking laugh.
And sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I won't just shut the fuck up for your sensibility, we are both grown ups I guess, so I think we can have this kind of discussion.
Who shited in my cornflakes? Probably the person who send me to "Shut The Fuck Up" for free, without even know me, and then saying that I give things for granted.
So I'm the one who needs to chill out? People needs to learn basic respect first.
The games industry is so bad at keeping its products alive. At least you can still buy old movies, that's a medium that's actually taken seriously and considered worth preserving. Games on the other hand, just... die, and I'm sick of that.
Or be like that game Fuel, which now doesn't exist on internet because of fuel.
True, games archivisim should be given more attention in order to preserve the medium. Although, you'd be surprised how many old films are currently unavailable too - just left to die. Many films also only on vhs or laserdisc, never made available on any future media/service.
And then emulators can actually keep these games alive... Which is the beauty of emulators, despite the legal standing.
@@ouroldhouse3674 Went to replay exactly this but you beat me to it. No form of media is immune to the 'distribution rights' bullshittery. Someone always wants to be paid. It's never the creator.
I agree completely.
That’s one of the reasons why I only play singleplayer games.
Board member 1 "People want a product so bad, they are willing to steal it, what should we do?"
Board member 2 "Lawsuits!"
Board member 3 "Pick a few titles and sell them in a self contained device"
Board member 4 "Create a storefront that allows people to buy our old games a la carte for a fair price?"
"Board member 4 gets thrown out window"
VC prices are mostly fair. While NES and GameBoy games should be cheaper you could buy great games like Super Mario World, Earthbound and LoZ LTTP for 8 dollars.
I'm fairly certain this is how it works.
CEO: "We've got to have..MONEY."
board member 5 "Just give it away with newer games"
Random Moron yeah but the virtual console is going bye bye. And there's no mention of it coming back on Nintendo's upcoming online service
In my opinion it should not be criminiliazed to download old games that are NOT purchasable anymore because they are not produced anymore. The ROM sites are storing and presevering those beautiful games for future generations, which is an important task. For example, Sony doesn't seem to care much that the PS Vita got hacked and you can download all PSV and PSP games for it
Edit:typo
Exactly my thoughts :)
What's interesting is that it's actually not that illegal. Downloading a copy of some software is copyright infringement. It's basically equivalent to traffic violation. But, somewhere along the line some lawyered up company got their highly payed lawyers to get some legal types to start calling it piracy. It's not. Piracy is selling a copy of software without permission. But, because of this precedent, future lawsuits are able to claim piracy from the get go. It's absurd and it's actually very illegal. If you get successfully sued for piracy when you committed copyright infringement that's a mistrial. You can sue them back for the value of their lawsuit. That's the law. Not that it seems to fucking matter anymore.
tarrker Fun fact: In some countries in Europe it is completely legal to download a private copy of copyrighted material, but only for private use. It can be movies, shows and games. So piracy doesn't even exist there
Sunlight Prince Thing is, the only way to fight piracy in a productive way is to do what Jim proposed, a "videogame netflix". We can obtain old games legally and the rightful owners still make money off them. Nobody loses!
Also happens down here in (some places) in South America. It's legal to download for private use. But it's considered piracy to sell these copies. Guess some ancient laws didn't catch up to the digital world and consider stuff to be material, solid objects. :3
Jim, I watch and enjoy your content for years, loving how you're exposing the shadiness of gaming's business practices, but this is the first time I think you *weren't hard enough*.
Game availability, ease of emulation, and ROM archives are valuable beyond words. It had to be a people-made initiative to store all these historically important games and to preserve them from extinction, and we need to do it for posterity. For those of us in remote parts of the world with weak computer specs, emulators played a big part of our childhood, and especially finding and trying out such a wide palette of crazy and overlooked games that had interesting design ideas that we commited to memory. Many of such players, who played through lots of emulated games in childhood, are now very creative and inventive game designers today in business. They had the education. They can bring new ideas and a new force in an industry that's desparate for more hirelings and does all it can to elongate work times. How can anyone speak against that?
In Eastern Europe Nintendo had zero presence. We have never played a Mario, Zelda or a Metroid game there, but after the emulator boom, it was nothing short of a revelation there: Who are these crazy characters? Why is America so infatuated with them? It was a whole new world to explore, and we were trying to make up for our lost time that the circumstances of the world would not allow us to see these games. If Nintendo got its way as it had, we still would never have played the old NES games to this day.
I also found it funny that you say how game journalists are obligated to denounce emulation and storing ROMs, because there is one site in my country, EmuGlx, that does the exact opposite. They are a Serbian blog that offers gaming news and reviews for contemporary games, but are also actively enthusiastic about emulation and encourage it and provide technical advice how to do it, and if it weren't for the site, I daresay a lot of people would be cut short and ignorant of the wide and diverse gaming world there is out there. Without them, it would've been colder and lonelier.
With the WiiU and 3DS EShops being closed soon (the first changes have already gone through) it’s becoming more important than ever for game preservation purposes/ historical records to have a way to keep exclusives from becoming lost media because a company wants to artificially inflate scarcity
Uh Jim, you’re wrong about one part: Emulation is not illegal. Downloading the ROMs is. Remember Bleem? They were a Playstation emulator sold for money that was sued by Sony, and Bleem won the lawsuit. Emulation cannot be stopped, so Nintendo is trying to take out the ROMsites instead, which in turn makes it hard to emulate since you can’t download the ROMs themselves.
But let’s be frank: Nintendo can try like they have in the past, but they cannot stop the downloading of ROMs. Once they calm down with the lawsuits, more ROMsites will appear than ever before. All these lawsuits are doing is hurting their image more and encouraging more people to pirate.
DrScaphandre In Poland uploading is, not downloading, as long the game has no EULA attached. And they don't, only PC games have it in their installers.
Emulation actually is illegal if it A) provides a console BIOS with it B) uses code from the original console
ThatNormalBunny Again, goes back to the lawsuit with Bleem. That argument was shot down a long time ago.
The Judgemental Cat Woah. Getting a lot of hostility from a fellow cat avatar pic.
You can also rip your own ROMs, e.g. for Mega Drive and SNES there's the Retrode 2. Those two consoles require no BIOS. And even consoles that do require BIOS can be emulated legally, e.g. by extracting the BIOS from the machine's firmware as with the PS3 using RPCS3, or using a BIOS dumper on the PS2.
I think one of the other key parts to this whole situation: why are we protecting intellectual property in the first place? Is it to protect the rights and livelihoods of the artists who create the art, or to protect the ability of large corporations to exploit the work of those artists? It seems to be the latter. With few exceptions, the original artists who created every title in the NES library ceased to benefit from the sales of those games by the time the NES was off the market. This means, for the majority of the time that artistic work has existed, the original artists saw absolutely no benefit from its legal protection. Should we really be using the legal system in such a way that allows those who had nothing to do with the creation of an artistic work to determine everything about how that artistic work is available, if at all?
Neither. It’s to incentivize the creation of cultural works for the public good, enabling the creators to financially benefit *for a time*, followed by the work assuming its natural place in the public domain. Needless to say, this fair, just and socially beneficial system has been corrupted beyond all recognition by moneyed interests, which as you say cut the creators out of the process as quickly as possible.
LPTheGas Excellent thought, the point above stands in that there is an excessively large gap between when the creator ceases to benefit and when public domain happens. And yes, during that time, the work may very easily be lost. Especially in an industry where DR-freaking-M exists, or where licensing deals expire, or are transferred, etc. etc.
Some of my favorite video games include Godzilla Monster of Monsters on the NES, and the Power Rangers games on the Sega Genesis (original and Movie). It would be something of a small miracle to ever see all of them preserved by the businesses; it is only through private individuals that they survive.
"All you need to dismantle a war machine is a little elbow grease and a good toolbox." - Comrade Gamechamp3000, excerpted from "VG Myths - Can You Beat Ratchet & Clank With Only The Wrench?", published August 10th, 2018.
What im asking is 'is gamechamp woke??????'
Hypershell Read up on Disney's affect on IP's.
They've lobbied their way into our laws expanding the duration that an IP remains private for as long as it does now (50 years after the life of its creator, iirc).
So what started as something legitimate in the case of IP's turned into the latter reason you suggested.
to ask "why bother having intellectual property in the first place" is hyberbolic as fuck. you need to reword that sentence so its specific to the subject matter your specifically talking about
I wish we could undo the changes Disney did to IP laws.
Don't you know? We can....but we'll need help. We'll have to destroy the 2 American political parties to do it though.
@@tomhill3248 exactly
@@tomhill3248 can we destroy all political parties and dictators and install anarchism
@@jmurray1110 exactly. do away with shady, powerhungry executives. give everyone what they need to create. art will flourish when it is no longer beholden to pressure from capitalism and states.
Thank you Jim for standing up for the mentally ill. As a nurse who has nursed mentally ill patients, as someone who suffers anxiety myself, as someone who has had clinical depression myself, as someone who has attempted suicide, has friends and family who self harm and have attempted suicide this attitude sickens me, my current favourite saying is "what have you got to be diabetic about?" after one idiot said to a friend "What have you got to be depressed about". This attitude, this stigma literally costs lives.
Surprised it took them so long but just leave EMUPARADISE ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!
You're too late for that mate
Emu threw in the towl, Nintendo hasn't touched them yet but it's just as bad ._.
I know but still sucks ._.
Hell, Vimm's Lair has been around almost as long and it's still kicking (though they've been having some server issues lately). You can always find a way to get what you want because nothing ever fully disappears from the internet.
Not fair those feckers removed all the games just as i start getting into emulators!
i have a sudden urge of downloading 600 gb worth of roms and every emulator now even though i might never use them.
ivory7777 right? Me too.
Trying to scrub something from the internet is like playing Whack-a-Mole. There will always be a website somewhere that will let you download those emulators and roms.
Take a trip to a country without copyright laws. Download everything. Return. Total laws broken = 0.
Do it. I do the same with a lot of CZcams videos I like, in the event they're taken down.
me too. i don't like the idea of these old games purposely being shoved away by companies. someone's new favorite game could be out there collecting dust in a back room at Nintendo headquarters.
Its always easier to destroy rather than create.
MikeZdoesit and nintendo creates alot.
And destroys far more.
Unless it’s a Nokia brick phone
Place Holder the people who make nokia brick phones have to forge them in the fires of hell with a material of strength beyond human comprehension
There’s a quote from Ben 10 that fits this. “Sowing chaos doesn’t take any special talent. If that’s the best you can do, I’m not impressed.”
Nintendo's actions has encouraged me to download complete Rom Sets of every one of Nintendo's consoles.
Jeremy Seal I may or may not have done a few just after this video
Tehblood I feel ya.
Jeremy Seal archive.org son
Is there one for the Wii? Because I'd love to have me some of that.
Archive.org is a joke, I went there the other day and found no Nintendo games.
Well see Nintendo can try all they want but in this day and age they CAN'T stop emulation, legally or otherwise. People will just start sharing their roms and emulators via email, I know I have.
can u email me
megaman37456
Email, torrent, social media, Mega... Trying to stomp all of them out is like trying to destroy an anthill by shooting it with an air gun.
That’s what I said. Shut down one site, two more takes it place
I thought the same thing. It's like when that really good fanmade Pokemon game came out (Uranium, I think), and Nintendo forced them to stop allowing downloads and shut it down...but Pokemon fans who had already downloaded the game just shared it with one another, so it was all moot.
they will lose every emulator site that shuts down 10 more will replace it, plus there's something called Bittorrent good luck on Nintendo to take those down, get VPN and go to town and get every nintendo game you want
If it wasn’t for Roms I’d never have been able to play Earthbound.
Nintendo has the biggest back catalogue in gaming history but like to just sit on it and do nothing with it.
i wouldn't have been able to play earthbound either if not for emulation or the fan translation of mother 3
Even though it is on the SNES Classic, Wii U and New 3DS?
I would say that's like patent trolls, but patent trolls make use of their advantages.
Rimmer Yeah. I mean, they could do amazing with a Netflix approach to gaming. Between everything from the NES, SNES, N64, and so on, they would have *a lot* . And this would be the Gen to do it. I mean, come on, with something like the Switch (a system you can play at home *and* take on the go), it would be the perfect time for a lot of retro games to be released in mass. And, imagine if they could get stuff from the GB, GBC, GBA and so on, that would be amazing. Picture it, playing something like LeafGreen and FireRed on the Switch. I would kill for that. Things like that would make me want to buy a Switch 10x more than I already do (which is a lot, especially with Smash and Pokemon Let's Go coming out)
That was a lot more recent then you'd imagine - I first played Earthbound in... 2005? It never came out down under.
The We Happy Few sliding guy is like a Wes Anderson bit. Just as soon as you think it's done, it keeps going
As someone living in a developing country, emulation is pretty much the only reasonable way for me to experience old games.
Nintendo completely refuses to sell anything over here since they don't see a big enough market for games (which is kind of fair from a business perspective, most people cannot afford expensive consoles and games, which is why PC and mobile are the most popular gaming platforms). So buying anything Nintendo means importing it from somewhere else, adding massive import charges to an already expensive purchase. From what I've heard, even the eShop doesn't accept local cards and stuff, so the only way to use the eShop is to import a gift card and add it to your account.
When buying new games or consoles is this hard, you can probably see how much more difficult and pricey it would be to acquire old cartridges that haven't been produced for 25 years.
On the plus side, there is Steam though. Their adjusted prices and sales actually make old games very very affordable. If it's on Steam, like the old Genesis games or anything from the Final Fantasy main series, I don't emulate it.
But all the Nintendo stuff is really hard to obtain, so I don't really feel that guilty emulating any of it.
Oh, and I should also add that Nintendo is so strict about restricting it's stuff, even their free mobile games like Fire Emblem Heroes or Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, are not available to download. On top of that, they remove the APK files of these games from sites that redistribute them.
As Jim pointed out in this episode, what the fuck am I supposed to do if they make it so much harder for me to give them money?!
Terry Pratchett once had one of his characters (a con-man named Moist, no less) say the following: "Never make it hard for people to give you money."
Of course, he was a con-man. He was dishonest. He was a thief, a cheater, and a liar. And often, he was more loyal, honest, and trust-worthy than the legitimate businesses he routinely came up against.
Gaben
Hell yeah, Pratchett! Good taste, man. And yeah, all too accurate.
Good quote, so true. How hard would it be for Nintendo to release, say, an N64 looking thing that connected to a dedicated official rom website?
Also, how perfect would Jim Sterling be as the Dean?
greenhowie Can he grow a beard?
If the universe is truly ready for the magnificence then I am positive that The Gods shall bestow luxurious swathes of follicles 'pon his countenance.
Or he can shave a biker and stick it on with sellotape or something.
Garfield only hates Mondays because he doesn't know about Jim
Garfield knows Jim better than anyone, dude!
Benjamin Shippley nice Calvin and Hobbes Profile Pic ;) Love that comic
Or Garfield is a corporate fat cat and already knows about Jim and that's why he hates mondays.
Jim knows him.
My SNES died a few years back. So according to the purists, I need to what, go buy a new one? Or buy a Switch so I can rebuy the games I have owned for 20+ years? I have been rebuying shit since 2000 as formats change and hardwares become obsolete, and digital releases, etc.Genuinely, I am tired of having to rebuy the same thing over and over again.
that's exactly what companies want. Exactly.
And people keep buying into it, myself included. Even looking at my PS3 collection, I see at least 1/3 of it is PS2 remasters, because for some reason my PS3 can play PS1 games, but not PS2. Dumb.
cry a river you could of easily just got your snes or bought new one and still have your games you don't need to buy new one on vc that your option you choose to whine about not getting shit for free its pathiec
"Got a new one"? How the fuck are you supposed to buy a new SNES when they stopped making them *15 years ago*? There are kids today who are almost old enough to drink that were born after the SNES was discontinued. And if you want to talk NES, that thing was dead in 1995, 23 years ago. Thank the gods mine still works, cuz fuck if I know how I'd get another one these days.
In a lot of cases, emulation is the only way you're ever going to be able to play these older games without having bought them back in the day or being so filthy rich you can drop several hundred dollars on a console, or in some cases, a single game cart.
That's the right way. How dare you to emulate games! Yep It's lame and sad how Nintendo act against those sites. Truth is, the people that used those sites probably wont have the resources to get an original copy from Nintendo so they were not losing money anyway. I bet your ass that those people that can afford their newest consoles will never emulate a thing cause they support them till the end. There's always this wrong concept that If It's free you wont support the original. This was a classist move from them. They wont have larger gains, they already have a public that keeps their company alive. I'm one of those people that are not gonna buy a Nintendo Switch for Super Mario 3 or the SNES version of Zelda. They will only drain money from the people that love and can't afford them. The rest can go eff themselves because that's just the way It is.
Something that absolutely terrifies me is the loss of media. I remember when I first became a fan of Dr Who I was shocked to learn that there were whole episodes of the show just gone. Unlike the Scott Pilgrim game where you can find evidence of their existence for a lot of these old episodes there's just nothing left other than maybe old scripts or out of context audio.
Your comment is exactly why I choose to be an archivist. Such a shame when great media disappears if it is not protected.
The thing is allowing space to innovate because it's all too easy to over-extend well meaning in legislation and what was intended to allow what sounds like a common sense goal on the face of it becomes something awful through the process of legislating it and one doesn't hand intentions along with the blank slate to any legislative group so why would anybody hand a blank slate to lawmakers which is like handing ones bank card to a junkie trusting them to just purchase batteries upon finding the remote isnt functioning and anything other than handing Tyrone the atm card is hard and would require getting out of Your chair sooooo this time will be fine not Far Cry 3
Reality
Gun control, I'm looking in Your direction...
I totally agree, the fact that some stuff can just be lost forever just like that terrifies me for some reason, and Nintendo doing that to their own games makes me want to puke.
It doesnt matter how often or how hard they hit the emulation scene.
It'll always bounce back.
Too many torrents exist for Nintendo to be Nintendo about everything. If you want the emulation you'll be able to find it.
Very true, because Nintendo needs to understand if they want my money they need to sell me something I need lol. It took me 7 fucking years to find a legit 100% complete in box of Fire Emblem 776.
THAT WHICH IS ALREADY DEAD WILL NEVER DIE
True.
And in general what goes on the Internet stays on the Internet so no matter how many websites Nintendo shuts down there will be some way to download old games.
Lol.
Nintendo: You can't have VC!
Me: Ok, I'll just download the roms, and play it that way then.
Nintendo: You can't have that either!
Ahh, Valkyrie Chronicles? I know what you mean, I emulate because there is nothing like a Netflix-For-Games on PC or PS3...
Me: *does it anyway and on a PSVITA just to rub salt in the wound*
I admit I've downloaded some Emulations as a kind of fuck-you to Nintendo. Along with other publishers.
Me: LIFE FINDS A WAY NINTENDO, YOU CAN'T STOP ME !!!!
Isn't PS Now "Netflix-For-Games"?
I've had chronic recurring depression for almost forty years now. Since I was in my early teens. The thing that really sets off my Irish temper is that "Oh just shrug it off, it shouldn't bother you that much, just get over it" speech. One time, I got that speech from a friend and I pinched a chunk of his skin. Hard. He slapped my hand away and said wtf. I said, Oh just shrug it off, it shouldn't bother you that much, just get over it." He said, "That's not the same thing!" I said, "How the fuck would you know, dumbass? You're not depressed!"
what
He's referring to the end part of the video.
Though your take on the key topic is appreciated as always, big thanks for calling out another shitty take on mental health treatment at the end. Not only is "just cheer up" an incredibly insulting sentiment, but that kind of flippant attitude is what drives so many terrible outcomes for people with mental health issues of all kinds.
Also, somewhat obvious statement, but for anyone reading this that's going through some stuff by themselves, please seek help. It is absolutely not a sign of weakness to admit that things are difficult and you could use a hand. There are many avenues, professional or otherwise, that exist to help us get by. Please use them.
Its interesting how Nintendo's actions seem to greatly benefit scalpers and resellers, like the stock shortage of Amiibos and the NES Mini. Now with ROMs being plunked from the net, your only option for obscure game will be paying inflated prices of retro games on ebay. The conspiracy theorist inside me, thinks Nintendo is secretly running these stores on ebay.
Either that or they are a bunch of morons when it comes to things on the internet. We have plenty of evidence on the latter claim.
You can still find the roms, it just takes a little longer. There's no way to stop emulation.
I had to search the Internet for a rom that I wanted to play. It took my awhile but I found one and I had to download it through some shit link that caused the download to take half an hour to finish.
It was worth the effort, but still it’s sad seeing sites like Emuparadise unable to allow you to download roms.
inb4 Nintendo is actually the scalpers so they can sell NES classics for thousands of dollars.
I'm so glad someone mentioned Scott Pilgrim. It makes me unreasonably fucking mad that I bought that game and am now not allowed to play it. I never got to beat it and it was an awesome game.
Floydthefuckbag i still have it 😂😂😂😂 I never uninstall anything cuz i dont trust corporations to not fuck me over lol
Personally, I bought the game but I regretfully never bought the Knives Chau DLC. Ah well, maybe when another reboot comes out.
Seriously though, the publishers should have released the package on retail.
Well, not long now till emulators catch up to that generation of consoles. I mean last time I checked things were still pretty broken but that was ages ago.
Floydthefuckbag weirdly enough you can still use play and download the demo if you downloaded it before.
Scott Pilgrim is a good example of why not just *retro game* emulators, but the actual game backup and distribution scene as a whole is a much more shades-of-grey situation than the anti-pirate lynch mobs would like to think.
Thank you for standing up for us who take medicine to help with our mental states. I’ve only recently started taking medication for anxiety/depression. I resisted doing so for a long time. I tried therapy (who suggested medication). I fought professionally opinion and tried exercise and change in diet (mixed results). I didn’t want to give up. I felt like my emotions should be something I could control by shear force of will. When I had my children, I finally made the decision to try medication. I didn’t want my difficulty controlling my emotional state to negatively impact them.
I started my medication and I still felt like myself, just more in control and at ease.
Afterwards, I regretted all the time I wasted being miserable just to not be looked at like I was broken/crazy by other people. Thank you for voicing it out loud that mental health is important and medication is an important tool for many.
Just want to comment on the depression and medication thing. For me, depression is not sadness, I don't feel sad when I am depressed, I don't feel sad, angry, happy, anything. I don't feel ANYTHING. Depression is not sadness, it is the lack of emotion completely. Medication makes me human, medication makes me feel sadness, anger, and happiness. Instead of blowing people off when they want to hang out I am able to make the effort to do so instead of just sitting in bed in state between sleep and awake, uncaring, unemotional. Just, there. I thank God for medication, the doctors and scientists who invented it, and I thank God for Jim Fucking Sterling Son.
I think the word you are looking for is "despair".
just cheer up mate
If I wanted to play any N64 game right now, I could either:
a. Buy an N64, the game, the controller, the necessary peripherals, an analog-to-digital converter for my HDMI-only TV and god knows what else.
or b. Download an emulator and the ROM.
One variant is legal, the other is not. Which one gives Nintendo money? None of them.
Nintendo would like you to either A) buy that game on the Eshop or B) Buy a second hand version of the console and game rather than pirate
MechMK1 Sure, but which one runs each and every game perfectly? N64 emulation has been shotty for years with only a handful of games that emulate decently. So yeah, I do both because it isn't difficult with a 2011 HD TV.
Yes, because all games we want to emulate are available at a good price on the eShop, a digital shop that is on every system available, right?????
"Nintendo would like you to either A) buy that game on the Eshop"
Then perhaps... And you might want to sit down for this one because it might blow your mind... Perhaps Nintendo should sell that game on the Eshop. 🤯
Right now, on the Switch which is their current platform, they offer no N64 games on the Eshop. How are we expected to buy what isn't for sale?
@ThatNormalBunny .... eeehhhh, not really because remember they hate second-hand purchases as well. Have you already forgotten that whole "Used purchases" war that was going on some 20 years ago?
*Here’s an emulator that looks like an apple* 🍎
cartmann94 XD
Life's good when you're an emulator fan on prom might.
Oh Konami, I mean NINTENDO
Is there even a big company left that doesn't deserve the "fuck " hashtag?
Nintendo didn't do this hit. Nintendo made demands to delist nintendo games only, an emuparadise took the nintendo games down. Someone else did this.
Your bit at the end about depression; Well done sir!
I also have clinical depression and generalized anexiety disorder, and it's not as simple as cheering up. I thank you for that good sir!
You didn't even mention the best story regarding Nintendo and emulation:
Someone discovered that the Wii version of Super Mario Bros being sold on Virtual Console was actually a pirated ROM they downloaded from the internet.
Ok so? That is their game so they have a right to download that and use it as they please on the other hand the person who made that ROM did not have the right to make it and should not made it and put it on the internet
Still Pathetic even if they did that once.
Sam Vimes They have the right to do that
I'm thinking the real reason they used a "pirated" copy was because they didn't give two farts in a windstorm to actually preserve the title themselves. Which I feel is morally worse than "pirating".
Sam Vimes To be fair, they own the game and they own the system that's being emulated.
It's also not clear if it was really dl from the internet due to *pretty much every good dump of smb being identical in header and code.*
Then again, most news media outlets try to make news of anything they can find.
The emulation scene is like a hydra cut off one head another pops up
wgmovies Not that, but double.
wgmovies and that's good
While that is true, take one down and two more take it's place, Emuparadise was one of really safe places to get Roms from, as you guarantee the files you were downloading were safe from viruses. Some of these other sites are dubious in their security these days. Losing Emuparadise is quite a large blow to the preservation and emulation scene.
wgmovies that’s what so good about it. It’ll always be there for people
EXACTLY!When nintendo kills one side, 2 more will pop up. and so on.You cant make it stop because so many people like me love rom hacking!
Whoof, man it got real at the end there Jim. I'm glad you're doing alright now. I love listening to you rant so artfully about the industry. I feel like your videos should be more widely known, you make some very good points.
Huge pat on the back for the bit at the end by the way. Always on the money, our Jim
Piracy and emulators are the only thing saving older great games from ceasing to exist. The real crime is to let the games die with their systems. The only way to play many great PS2 and other console exclusive games legaly is to buy an overprised used console and game, and eventually these consoles will stop working and can't be replaced. And many great abandonware PC games are not sold digitally or in stores. If they dont like emulators they should re-release these games for a decent prise for modern PC's and consoles. What if the only way to watch the original Star Wars triology was to buy an overprised VHS player and VHS? Ironically piracy and emulation are the preserver of games as a creative product and art since the games industry isn't capable of doing so itself. They should be thankful that piracy and emulators are keeping great titles and franchises from dissaperaing so they can squeeze out a greedy effortless cashgrab remake/remaster years later.
Case in point: Rule of Rose.
Game has so few working prints out on the market (and that for the PS2), that a copy costs several hundreds of dollars.
There is no need to push nice-to-have things into ultra exotic pricing tiers by artificially limiting supply. Yet this is what publishes constantly try. FUCK EM.
But old VHS tapes ARE the only way to watch the original cut of the first Star Wars trilogy. George Lucas shit on the original trilogy with his CGI nonsense, the original trilogy was never released on DVD or Blu-Ray in its original form. Because of this, when I was a kid I thought CGI was a thing in the 70s. He did the same thing with THX 1138, adding wings to lizards, CGI alien scorpions instead of rats and CGI monkeys. What a moron !
AntonioR Google "Harmy's Despecialized Edit" You can find ways to download all three original films with the special edition fuckery cut out in Bluray quality (+20GB each).
Yeah, especially because you can not even buy them anymore. So what are we supposed to do, Nintendo? NOT BUY YOUR GAMES? Yeah, that wilk help us all
Gentlesir PancakeBottoms agreed. If you dont like to re release your console game on console cause it charges so much than pc is for you
I don't understand why Nintendo spends so much time mitigating profit. Is it that difficult to release their merchandise to broader regions and supply? Get in the stock of gaming software if you want to control emulation. Wasting resources on countless law suits is incomprehensible!
Quick to insults, aren't you? I'd say this is more an example of how broken, and idiotic the game industry is rather than someone pointing out a major issue that people need to pull their heads out of their asses to figure out.
It's absolutely moronic for a company, or multiple collaborating companies to spend so much time making a game, or multiple games that people love, WANT to spend money on, and all which is implied, and because of a single damn license rip as many possible ways of obtaining said game away from the consumers, and say "Shit, fuck, outta luck, come back when we give a damn." Exclusivity licenses are one of many anti-consumer practices that need to fucking end, because not only does it prevent the consumer from getting the product that exists, yet they aren't allowed to have suddenly, but it causes this very game that exists, which people want, to literally make the company that owns it no money.
How it should be is if these licenses are so damn important to them, then put this, or something akin to it, in;
"All previous installments under this intellectual property with companies other than the current contractual partners shall be permitted to be sold, and make profit for those involved in the creation, though no further installments in this property may be created with these prior contractual partners."
Simple motherfucking fix, people get their fucking games they want, people make money, and there's still technically that stupid exclusivity in game creation, because if only one god damn company can have a license at a time, then I'm guaran-damn-teeing that we'll never see certain games officially released ever again, and companies as toxic as Nintendo will try to scrub all memory of them off the internet so people won't ask them to release it, and won't look online for ways to play it where they make no money.
The one that seems to not get the point here is you Mr. "So many idiots on planet".
What RedVisor is trying to say is: people want old games, so if a company is willing to spend so much money on lawsuits, why not spending it creating a virtual platform that OFFERS those old games instead of getting rid of them.
And yes, EVERYONE knows they can only bring whatever they own the rights for, but at the same time having a library that can expand over time by whatever mean possible is, still, a huge step forward, but as we all have seen, Retardno not only lawsuits against EVERY game of their property, but against EVERY game with their logo, characters or even style (being fanmade or not). So they are not just claiming what they own, but claiming every single thing they want because Nintendo. They're not contrinuiting with anything, they're just being a big whiny child.
At the end the "IDIOTS/morons" are Nintendo for hurting it's own image and even wasting money on IPs that NO longer will make them any profit at all.
They can't even bring out Alien vs. Predator 2 to Steam. The greatest Alien and Predator game ever.
This is one of your most important episodes, Jim, especially the last bit.
Unfortunately, this is going to continue to be a problem with most media until laws governing copyright and the public domain are finally reformed. The original Super Mario Bros., as well as most of the NES' library, should be in the public domain by this point. Now, of course, the companies will argue that if they let but a SINGLE work of theirs into the public domain, their beloved characters will start getting used in all manner of unofficial works, and I say, this is what trademark law should be for, protecting a company's brand by preventing unlicensed use of characters and iconography, *without* robbing the public domain of the specific works in which those characters appeared fifty years ago.
Emulation is 100% ok if it's for Archival purposes. It's why I went on a spree getting as many consoles and their roms as much as I could. I don't even let unreleased games, betas, and other games not officially in the library out of my site. Fuck, not even homebrews.
One day, these games are gonna fail the cartridge. But the roms themselves can be forever on the internet. If it weren't for emulation, people wouldn't have even known a ton of these games, like MOTHER 3.
As an aspiring developer myself, I’ve always treasured the ability to use emulators for research. Being able to play the older or more obscure titles that I normally could never get my hands on, and study the ways they were designed, both the good and the bad.
Take Theresia: Dear Emile for example, it’s a heavily flawed game in many ways but still has a lot of benefits to its execution. It was a game that used its own limitations to further the feelings of dread that a horror game needs. Finding a copy of that game can be very difficult at times, especially for anyone outside of the US since it was never released.
A Nintendo episode with no Chains of Love...
damn...
Videogames are art.
This old art has been abandoned by the creator and is no longer available.
People have a human right for art and education.
Therefore there should be a legal foundation for providing copies of outdated games that are no longer on the market (as they were).
If Davinci came back to life and said "I want you to remove and burn all my pieces of art" ... think anyone would do that?
Of course not, because they are culture, they are art, they are a part of who we are now, so the artist doesn't have the exclusive right over their creations as soon as these gain value as art.
Problem is, the creator isn't a person. Like Jim said, the "creator" is a company. And companies are essentially immortal.
Also, what makes you think people are entitled to free products? Because you can say they're art, but so can everyone else (including the creators) can say they're products. Which are not mutually exclusive. What then?
This is what upsets me. The whole "preservation" or "art should be free" thing is just a veil to desguise people's real motive. They want free games.
TheNinjaCrash Nope, it's not that they want free games. They just want to play a game, which could have great emotional meaning to them, or are just looking to maintain them for future generations. I for one would be horrified by the idea that someone's hard work and ideas would be forgotten just because no one is willing to keep their games playing on modern systems, and making them available to a wide audience. Besides go take a look at GoG.
Salty Coffee Then just buy the physical carts and copy them personally. Oh wait, you also want to game the game to be easily accessible? Well, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I love the dark lord Satan, and I don't want to have to pay over $600 for a GameCube Fire Emblem game. It was never worth that much and no normal consumer can ever afford that. If Nintendo released it on an e-console for $20, $30, even $40 I'd buy it. But I'm not paying some random jackass to own a $600 game that more than likely is scratched and damaged.
This video was the perfect opportunity to bring up that Nintendo took down the Wiis eshop, not only taking away one of the most accessible methods of purchasing classic console game, but simultaneously taking away everyone's games with it. You cant redownload any of the games you purchased.
And nobody seems to complain about it.
A few days ago I decided I wanted to play Castlevania Rondo of Blood because Richter Belmont was announced as a playable fighter in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Rondo of Blood is a unique case because other than a shitty remake named Dracula X on Super Nintendo it was never released in America due to it being on the TurboGraphix 16 CD. Turns out I should have known to purchase it on the Wii Shop months ago because that was the only time that game was re released to American audiences. The only other way to get the game is to purchase the PSP remake and unlock the original game in that version. I'm sure you can figure out what I decided to do next ;)
Nothing anyone does will stop me emulating old games. Most games these days are shit and I'm always playing old stuff with the added luxury of being able to save in games that you couldn't and frame skipping loading screens not to mention making them look so much better.
dorrocrafter erm if they take away all the files it’s only a matter of time and a hard drive failure away from stopping most people I do agree tho modern gaming is a flaming turd best console out is the gpd xd I’d suggest checking it out if you’ve not seen it handheld that can hook up to the tv and emulator games up to the Dreamcast times pretty dam well
Its the internet, the files have been up for so long for so many years, its like when youtube tries to stop a tv show from going up. Yeah you'll stop it for the first week, maybe a month. But when you have trillions of data to comb through each day of stuff uploaded, there is just no way to stop it all.
Also they asked to take down the site not burn the servers, I am sure someone will eventually remake those sites. Its the same thing as downloading movies or streaming shows. While 1 dies 10 more take its place.
Zeratultheking yes and your also operating under the assumption that the internet won’t change in nature and the way it works the USA are constantly trying to change thankfully it normally gets protested out but now the EU is doing the same and no ones paying attention to it and once those types of things are changed say bye bye to all torrents and hosting sites
Zeratultheking and that ratio is shit I tried to get ocarina of time yesterday the only place I could get it was the Pirate Bay (and it was buried in a pack not on its own) and that’s after trying 8 sites that have all been forced to take it down so in that case 8dead 1 alive lol
Dio Brando you're probably not looking hard enough because I tried what you did and got a copy of it immediately without going to pirate bay. I have a keen eye for finding legit sites so maybe I'm a bad example
Really great video. Keep kicking ass Jim.
How about we just reduce copyright term to 20 years? If companies cant make a profit on their IP in 20 years, then theyre not very good companies.
The original length was 14 years I think plus another 14 if the holder chooses to renew. Blame disney and their avarice for the current situation.
Its like life of the creator plus 104 years now, I think
Well, the lifetime of the creator isn't unreasonable for certain categories of IP.
@Carter Kinoy No, it really isnt reasonable. Nobody should be entitled to profit from work done over 2 decades prior. RPS wrote a pretty good article covering the philosophy of this mentality a while back: www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/03/editorial-why-games-should-enter-the-public-domain/
Life of creator is reasonable. But do you know who extended copyright in the UK? Peter Pan's weird case where the proceeds went to a children's hospital and people kept trying to protect that work individually.... Causing perpetual extensions.
So an individual wasn't making the profit, it was a children's hospital ultimately that tugged at people's heartstrings so much to extend it for so long.
NINTENDO: Don't you dare play our back canon through means we don't enable! We'll crush you like bugs if you try!
SEGA: Hey, if you download the beta of Sonic 2 you can play bits of the original Hidden Palace Zone. Check it out, it's rad.
SNK: We don't like the idea of emulation, but we're smart enough to know we wouldn't exist without it so... Phooey on you guys. Boo. Hiss.
The King of Fighters and Metal Slug guys.
SEGA: Just don't you dare touch Shining Force III. Also definitely don't try and make let's plays with it or use any footage from the game at all.
Sega: and if you make a fan made Streets Of Rage, we will shoot you.
I think “back catalogue” is the phrase you were looking for.
Sega DMCA´s every fangame that is not on the sonic branf.
Keep on keepin on Jim. Glad you get the help you need. Not many real journalists out there anymore.
Thank God for you Jim, your speech on anti medication wankers brought a smile to my face. I'm on anti depressants myself and I see so much shit on social media where people say 'walking in the woods is an anti depressant and pills are addiction.'
I can assure you, that isn't the case.
I used to walk home from college on the really bad days, when I was so angry, confused and frustrated with my lot that I needed to walk six miles to tire myself out, so that I couldn't feel anything anymore. I'd go to sleep with blisters on my feet, still depressed and I'd wake up and have to face it all again.
I went onto medication, a year later and CHRIST was it an improvement. I now have a steady job, a girlfriend and I feel good about myself for the first time in my life.
Mental health works differently for everyone. Some people like to interract with nature, others like to be alone. Some need pills and some don't.
Regardless, it's up to the individual, not some shitbag clickbaiting douche nozzel, who 'celebrates being sad.' I hope the writer takes you up on it Jim, feel free to invite me and we can both go without our pills and go crazy together.
Some fun legal tricks:
1 Vacation to a country without copyright law. Download literally every ROM. Return having broken no law. Works in US.
2 you are allowed to make backup copies of electronic media you have purchased for a personal archive. Emulators are not illegal. Stealing is.
Besides, nobody is getting arrested for it. It's just too widespread a practice, and cracking it down is too difficult. In fact, I'm pretty sure that proving you did it would require several violations of data protection acts to gather the evidences.
Either way, the only 'end' in sight for piracy is to oppose it with a great legal offer. Steam curbed piracy down dramatically in its time simply by providing a service of quality.
That's not really how that works, Kale.
Can confirm, in Mexico at least nobody gives a fuck about copyright law, you can download and sell piracy of any kind of media on any street corner and absolutely no law enforcement unit or squad, will arrest you for it. I bet it's the same in China and shit.
It's still illegal to violate you own country's laws while on vacation. Going to Thailand to have sex with what would be underage prostitutes in the US but are legal in Thailand is still illegal for US residents. Whether you'll get caught doing so is another matter as there's next to no chance they'll see you specifically downloading NES roms in Oman, but the legality just isn't on your side.
life hacks
Yea how DARE we enjoy games we can't even buy or have already bought years ago !
Agreed. Dead games are FORBIDDEN! Forget they ever existed, NOW!...Until they say otherwise...God, licensing today sucks...
I never understood the whole emulation is stealing thing. People who emulate games usually don't have cash to pay for the game itself, therefore even if you take down emulators it isn't gonna boost sales, because they still don't have the money to buy your game. Mario Galaxy was the most pirated game and the most purchased game on the wii. Face it. Emulation doesn't affect sales at all.
Piracy was never a big issue at all, wether it’s for music, movies or retro games, it’s not like it's actually hurting the industry.
Me and my friend are actually gonna do a podcast on why emulation is good for poverty stricken people.
8:29 ''Nog nooit gezien'' translating ''never been seen'' is pretty acurate. I think I've never seen or heard of anyone owning a Wii-U
My argument for emulation is that we should be allowed to have them under the circumstance that the company is no longer selling them.
They wouldnt have made money from it because they arent selling it ergo, it should be fine to emulate.
Septlaxer Gaming its still an illegal download
If you have an orignal copy of the cartridge it's actually not
Septlaxer Gaming No, that’s just not true. If I own a triple A game, I can’t go to Pirate Bay and say I’m “legally” downloading it.
Provide me any proof that is true
www.howtogeek.com/262758/is-downloading-retro-video-game-roms-ever-legal/
"To begin: downloading a copy of a game you don’t own is not legal. It’s no different from downloading a movie or TV show that you don’t own."
In regards to one you already own;
"But is there a legal defense? Possibly, if you already own a Super Mario World cartridge. Then, according to Bambauer, you might be covered by fair use.
“Fair use is a fuzzy standard, not a rule,” Bambauer explained. He says he could imagine a few possible defensible scenarios. “If I own a copy of Super Mario World, I can play it whenever I want,” he notes, “but what I’d really like to do is play it on my phone or my laptop.” In this case, downloading a ROM could be legally defensible.
“You’re not giving the game to anybody else, you’re just playing a game you already own on your phone,” said Bambauer. “The argument would be there’s no market harm here; that it’s not substituting for a purchase.”"
And substituting for purchase is a factor defining whether it infringes on copyright.
In this instance, if you own a copy of super mario bros and want it on your phone, if there is no market by Nintendo on that device, there is no market being infringed/replaced, therefore it would be legally defensible.
That is also where my stance comes from for games that are no longer available for purchase, or accessible - where are you infringing on the market if the market no longer exists?
Even if they own the rights, if you've had a copy of it before and you copy it off for personal use to emulate you are in the 100% right to do so, to emulate on another device (taking cuphead to phone).
However, it is still legally grey to emulate a game you don't own, that is no longer available for purchase.
As you can see, it's vastly different and more nuanced from simply going and pirating a game that is currently available in the market.
I'll reiterate: If you have the game, you can emulate from your copy, provided it's for personal use and not for sharing.
I would personally argue (and this is legally grey), that if a game is no longer in circulation in the primary market it is fine to emulate.
My rationale is that they're not making money from the secondary market anyway, it's the second-hand sellers that are the only ones making a profit.
It is not a replacement for the original games, because the original games are no longer in circulation/available as new by the original company.
There's also that they're no longer selling the game themselves and therefore have absolved themselves of earning money from the game, ergo it is acceptable to emulate because the company would not receive finance for the games anyway.
If there is no way of paying the dev's for their work - how is it piracy?
Why should I pay second-hand markets that price gouge because the product wanted?
And lastly, assuming it is piracy, is there any guarantee that someone emulating would have bought the game and therefore they would have lost a sale?
This last instance is legally indefensible, but it's an interesting take;
I would argue that someone wanting to play the game and pirating are doing so because it either runs better (because denuvo sucks and slows the game down (AC origins/recent sonic game)).
Or, are doing so because they didn't have the money to buy the game in the first place, thus they wouldnt have bought it and it shouldn't be considered a loss.
Just reading an EULA is enough proof to any consumer that *none* of these fucks care about archival. Basically, we haven't truly owned a single thing we bought since the industry started making cartridges. You can't touch it, you just have the privilege of playing it, their "blessing".
coffee115 EULA are meaningless
Jubei66666 Yet you must agree to play. The only winning move is to take the shit back to the store and give them the finger.
EULAs are pretty illegal but no one has the money and wants to risk being the guy who screwed up the lawsuit. But they're definitely not legally enforceable
coffee115 maybe it's an American thing. Where i live an in a lot of other places they are literally meaningless garbage that cannot be enforced as they would violate consumer protection laws.
Jubei66666 Well that's because consumer protection is one of them thar librul idears. We can't have those.
That last bit about we happy few and depression was the best thing I’ve heard all week. Your bloody fantastic
Don't make a product available for people, then spend time and money shutting down people trying to find ways to use the product instead of just officially releasing the product to said people. Game company logic at its finest... Especially logical when they don't even make money from most of those games, anymore.
Jim, I'm surprised you didn't bring up the fact that the hardware to play a lot of these older generations of games is increasingly brittle. Unless you're keeping these systems in pristine environments or are skilled in repairing and replacing electronics, those older game systems will eventually degrade to a point where they become unusable. The gameboy's fading screen, the NES blinking red light. Heck, let's even include the Gizmondo; most units are now a slowly melting pile of plastic chemicals. If you ever wanted to play it's amazing library of 14 succulent games, it's either emulation or a pair of latex gloves.
Emulation serves as a way to preserve games beyond their hardware's lifespan. Eventually, there will be a lot of great games that you won't be able to play on anything other than a reproduction system or on emulator. And not every game out there is going to be deemed worthwhile enough for companies to keep them restored - historically, only a tiny number of games have been re-released on newer systems. Nintendo shutting down these websites makes it harder for our history to be maintained by those who actually care about it.
The dreamcast is another perfect example due to its proprietary laser.
I wish Emulator Sites would try an “abandonware” approach to emulation
Basically just have their usual massive list of games, but as soon as it goes on sale from an official source, they yank it down. I’m sure it’s not any better legally. But it’s probably a lot more ethically sound. It would also maybe make Nintendo improve their drip feed bullshit speed. Which is never a bad thing
But oh well. It happens
that is the way emuparadise was doing it with nintendo games but apparently even that annoy that stupid company so... yeah.
Let's be honest: there is nothing ethically wrong with it in the first place, considering how shitty the publishers business models are.
What you mean is that it's less prone to retaliation that way.
Which I'm not so sure about, if you look at how extremely petty shitcorporations like nintendo are.
But of course that means anything on the NES classic is gone, despite the difficulty in getting one.
Mixtape Troy hacked gen 1 Wii and Nintendont?
Knuttonj Anything abandonware I consider legal. Of course, a lot of rom sites don't follow this method unfortunately. I've done my part by buying English Mother and Star Fox 2 on the SNES Classic since I enjoyed those on emulators.
Much love to you Jim, sometimes your sheer awesomeness makes me forget you deal with such pain.
love you jim, you make mondays sooo much better!
Pirate is either and unsatisfied customer, somebody who is never going to buy your game to begin with, or somebody who was poor wouldn’t have experienced it otherwise. In any case they do not translate to lost profits.
Ethan Taylor Not enough to make a difference, at least
Emulation isn't even that, it's trying to play games that the devs and publishers pretty much abandoned and the technology is too far gone to truly play on original hardware without going out and buying a CRT to plug in my PS1, as most HDTV's don't even have VGA inputs anymore. It's a market that exists specifically BECAUSE there is no way to play it otherwise in our modern times.
Or they are like a lot of people who don't see the point in paying for single player games when you can pirate them even though they have the cash to purchase them.
@@notapplicable7292 those people are complete dicks who don't understand the time and effort people put into these games, sometimes even the bad ones, and are what make the pirating scene look absolutely selfish and dickish.
If you weren't going to buy the game, you don't deserve to own it. That's how money works. You can't tell the future, maybe in a few years or even months you will have enough money or would want to buy that game. Also, there are douchebags who want the game but just don't want to pay. Don't pretend otherwise.
It seems like Nintendo is trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it
I like the analogy, but it's even worse than that considering (from the perspective of the analogy) there wasn't even a fire to start with; it was just Nintendo overreacting to begin with, delusionally imaging a few half-smoldering embers on the ground were any threat to them 1000ft away in a giant fortress, and then running over to it pouring gasoline on it in their irrational panic, creating the actual "fire" themselves that wasn't even there to begin with.
Nintendo is innocent on this one. Emuparadise was already complying with an order to take down nintendo games. This was someone else
As someone that was once diagnosed with Type 2 Bipolar disorder, suffered from PTSD, Social Anxiety, and violent mood swings, I would as well like to invite that We Happy Few writer to join me in 2006-11 for a week off the antipsychotics and antidepressants that I was taking at the time. He wouldn't just hate me. One of us would be dead.
I'm really happy that the point in the end was made, and honestly, I'm very pleased and thankful that Jim is so open and honest about his mental illness. Really wish I had had someone like that in my life when I was 16.
Wow emuparadise gone? I think a moment of silence is appropriate.
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Right then! Now what to change the domain name too ^.^
S-clone emulimbo
OstrichParadise
RoadRunnerParadise
XP XP XP [BEEP BEEP !!]
Emuparadise isn't gone, they just aren't offering roms anymore.
+Mic 0961 So basically gone. Like a porn site that's been banned from showing porn.
I have no remorse for emulating games that never came out here or were never translated or were never re-released in an easily obtainable format. It's not my fault that nobody wanted to translate For the Frog the Bell Tolls, so I'm going to download it and patch in an English translation because I can say that I'd have definitely bought that game at full price if it we're fucking available to me back then. In these cases of non-translation and region-locked content there is nothing to be ashamed of, IMO.
Molly Lane Full heartily agree, but if it ever somehow does become available to buy outside of Japan, I'll buy it. This is exactly what I did when English Mother and Star Fox 2 finally became available.
This is the same justification I use. I'm not going to give a fuck about the legal repercussions of grabbing the (superior due to how Namco bastardized it for western release) Japanese version of Ace Combat 3 and sticking the fan translation over it.
I just emulate because it'd be almost impossible to find some of these games if i didnt
nintendo refused to bring over Mother 3 and Secret of Mana 3, basically they can basically go fuck themselves, they don't want archive shit and give us place to get these games for more affordable price (5 dollars is far to much should be buck or two at the most)
kyotheman69 Exactly. I'm a Star Ocean fan, and I know they released an English version on PSP, but that was actually a remake with the SO2 engine... so if you wanted to play the original version of the first Star Ocean game (My favorite game probably ever) you would have to:
1) learn Japanese
2) find and import a copy of this rare game
3) find and import a Super Famicom, because the international versions are incompatible with multi-cart games (literally just this one and Tales of Phantasia use that feature due mostly to game length)
4) buy an international step down 120v to 100v power converter so you don't fry everything you just bought
5) realize that after all your Japanese lessons, you're still lacking the ability to understand how to translate abstract space diplomacy dialogue
6) give up when the hardware fails because nobody in your area has parts for a Super Famicom
Your only other option is to emulate or wait until hell freezes over, licenses get straightened out and every party votes for a modern port that Nintendo or Sony might eventually get around to putting up for sale for 15 bucks.
this got recommended to me in december 2 years after the upload of the video and i naturally thought it was this week's jimquisition talking about the ongoing nintendo thing
Another excellent video Jim. Good on ya'. You're a real champ~!
Noone would care that Ninty hate emulation IF THEY ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO SUPPORT THE SWITCH WITH OLD GAMES
Even then, some old games weren't popular, but were cult classics thatll never see a rerelease
I mean there is the fact that Nintendo's first party emulators are significantly worse and less accurate than fan emulators.
@Walther Penne: What the fuck is wrong with you. Stop insulting people.
They are supposed to start when the Online service begins in September.
But yeah, the sooner the better... I'd prefer not to have to sell plasma just to buy a copy of Path of Radiance on the GC.
GameInDorf He’s super elite don’t bother with him. I see him on almost every comment. Would be better for him to go to jail, actually an asylum might be better. Already lost his mind trying to be a person of justice...
i still never regret emulating games that i can't get for less than $60 on hardware more than 10 years old that have no re-release or if it never came to the PAL region.
Ace Attorney series [*]
windwaker0rules I agree. My rule is as long as the legacy game isn't ridiculously priced like over $60, then I'll buy it. Besides, games like the Star Wars Rogue Squadron games run like shit on emulators, so the second hand market is better off. And they're dirt cheap! (At least in the US)
thank you so much for that bit about medication at the end, Jim.
if its no longer sold by official retailers then following bethesda logic resale is not acceptable and thus emulation is the best option.
0(I am aware that bethesda is relying on a straw argument of that the owner is trying to sell the item as new because it is not opened and they are trying to force that as used/preowned)
Michael Hanratty Well, considering Bethesda made Arena freeware back in like 2004 (which now pretty much requires an emulator to work on modern computers) I suppose they don't mind emulators as long as the game has become too old for them to make money off of it.
Nintendo, however, could probably still make a crap load of money off their older games library, yet they don't even seem to want to do that. Which only makes their disdain for emulators that more puzzling.
Nekhet That would be a reasonable thing to do throughout the copyright issue but is especially clear with video games. Are 8-bit Atari machines being made and sold? Is software for these machines being made and sold? No? Then you're not losing any money because you wouldn't get any either way, Atari, piss off. (I know it's not the same Atari, named used as example)
Therefore copyright on video games should dissolve when a platform leaves the official market, which today is about ten years. Especially that Nintendo or Sega have no intention of making any of it available for purchase anymore, save for some "big titles" obviously but there are thousands of obscure games they don't even know they own. Right now Nintendo is being a patent troll and nothing else. Nobody gains nothing from it but "muh IP!!!".
It's just billionaire companies scrambling to control everything they possibly can on principle. It's a matter of moral fortitude to stick it to them whenever you can because fuck these one-percenter cunts.
wrong on many levels
its about control its about protecting there rights and property you do same shit
The biggest crime against humanity is that I will never be able to properly play Captain Rainbow.
Related note, I got ISO's for Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. You want a download link, hit me up.
I'm replying because i want to let people know that BOTH of the games are absolutely great. Try em if you enjoy turn based strategy. Some of the best FE games.
Cheesus Almighty Please!
Cheesus Almighty it the one were for wii right ? if so i will leave a comment here so other can see
ive been meaning to play Radiant Dawn for a while now, a download link would be nice. Thanks
Yeah that'd be great! Never played em but been meaning to for ages.
I don't think I've ever seen someone threaten someone with, "I won't take my medication."
I love you, Jim.
The problem is that intellectual property rights effectively never expire. I feel that anything over 20 years old, or not available in any form should be fair game but in our world, property owners have lock on making the law. Disney has ensured that copyrights from the year that Steamboat Willie came out never expire. This doesn't encourage investment and creativity, it encourages value extraction, rent seeking, and walling off the collective unconsciousness forever.
I'd be in favour of changing copyright law so that it's use-it-or-lose-it. If you don't sell at least 100 copies per year, you lose the copyright, regardless of how much time has passed.
I think the ideal duration for copyright would be to make it equal to the voting age. Once you're an adult, anything made before you were born is fair game.
They should do what GoG does and find old games at good prices done right. I'm a good for nothing Aussie cheap skate and I own heaps of games on GoG
Same here. It's tough to describe how happy I was when I found out they picked up Deadlock 2. I thought that game would never be playable on a modern PC.
Love GoG. been able to play so many classics that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to.
As they did when it was just CD Projekt Red, how do you beat pirates?
You make the games better.
Crazy to think that publishers are so blind to this that they'd rather no one at all play these games than miss out on the money that they wouldn't be making regardless. Even movie studios are doing better and they told me not to download a car with a commercial.
Abbreviated Reviews yeah, the film industry is a good example - while it has plenty of problems with a lot of old films never making it to modern formats - why is it so hard for me to buy the thin man films, Hollywood - you can still very often find even pretty obscure old films on blu Ray because some small company picked up the rights and had it restored. This doesn't/can't happen in the game industry.
As much as I despise Nintendo's practice of under-producing the NES Classic because it caused scalping, I did get a very nice emotional high from the whiny little shitbiscuit scalpers who sat on their hoarde until Nintendo started mass producing them.
Seeing all of them come crying to the internet that they can't make money off of the scalping of hot commodities was just...(italian chef kiss)
Meanwhile, Nintendo didn't do this attack. Emuparadise was already complying with an order to remove games that were on nintendo platforms.
Scalpers crying? I'd love to read their comments. You have a link?
Points made: you want digital media bought, you make it easily available. If there's just one official source that requires installing many side apps, paying extras for made-up expenses and can barely provide the download speed above dial-up - congrats, you've done everything to lose against piracy.
My disapproval regarding this stems more from how difficult this makes it for people with certain disabilities to play Nintendo's games especially. There's a video on CZcams of a blind guy describing how he uses a unique set up with an emulator and a trail and error approach that save states allow him to use in order to play his favorite game: Nintendo's Ocarina of Time. For any future people in his condition, Nintendo has made it unreasonablely more difficult to play their game at all, since Nintendo doesn't offer that game in any capacity that allows that approach. There are ways that emulators help people with other disabilities as well, and the sad fact is that if you're afflicted by one of these in the future, Nintendo will insist that you give up a hobby that for many is a large part of their identity, because allowing you to keep that part of yourself puts them at risk of not getting all the money.
Shadowrun was never released in PAL regions for the Mega Drive, except on the SEGA Channel.
The SEGA Channel, obviously, is gone now, and it's 2018, so I can't buy the game from a retail store so that the makers of the game make money. I can buy it second hand on eBay, but again, it's region locked, so I can't play it without 'hacking' my way around the region lock.
So something I once had access to - and paid for - is completely inaccessible to me except through 'piracy'. What is the alternative to this? There obviously isn't one - so fuck it, I obvious will pirate the damn game.
Stupid fucking gaming industry, get a clue.
Lee K Same with Chrono Trigger, there was no PAL release. Fortunately it was ported to DS, but if I want to play the original I would need a NTSC SNES, TV and power converter (we use 3 prong plugs) on top of the cartridge itself.
Yeah great example - played that pirated back in the day, loved it, so much so I bought on release the DS version, which I'm looking at on my shelf right now as I type. Because owning it on a handheld was a great attraction - therefore, the ROM acted as a demo that I tried before buying.
Jim nailed it in this video - we should have a massive on demand library, certainly from Nintendo, for retro games that you pay a monthly subscription for. It'd cost them buttons to run and maintain and they could charge £4.99 a month and millions of people would pay it.
Instead, they're doing their usual toymaker schtick of half arsed solutions with a handful of games on an emulator in a plastic box.
Idiots.
Sega killed any possibility of me giving them any money when they removed lan from warhammer 40k dawn of war.
The game industry is like a kid who brought their favorite ball to school but then left it there and forgot about it. That kid then sees other kids playing with it one day, realizes it has some value in making others happy, and then takes it away since it is "their" ball.
Jim, I so value your closing words on We Happy Few. I'm also someone who needs medication for their brain to function fucking properly, and it was painful and worrying to listen to Alex speak about "prescription drug culture" this way, and that he used what could have been a really fucking cool game to instead demonize the meds I need to survive. So, thanks for that. It's always nice to see someone whose work you respect speak so strongly about what matters.
Most recent example of this: removing the Transformers games from Steam because the license expired.
*The fUCK?*
Welcome to how business works if you want it back up find out who owns Transformers and send them a email/letter about how you feel about the game being removed and then ask them if they could put it back up
+ThatNormalBunny Sending a nicely-written letter or email doesn't guarantee that it will ever come back up.
"Welcome to how business works" feels like the intro to the explanation of basically every terrible thing in the world.
It is
Crystalhertz
Not _everything_ in the world.
If we lived in a Communist country the Transformers game never would have made it up because it's Capitalist propaganda.
I was unable to get the updated PSP port of Disgaea 2 a long time ago, so I got it on an emulator (PPSSPP). I JUST set down my actual PSP where I'm playing a legally-purchased digital copy of Disgaea 2 that I'd bought as soon as I was able. I also got a 'legit' digital copy of Phantom Brave, but I'm currently stuck playing La Pucelle Ragnarok on the PPSSPP. I want very much to purchase a real, working copy of Fatal Frame 4 in English, but I'm stuck trying to get it to work on the Dolphin with the English fan-patch because Nintendo hates Project Zero and their fans. Emulators for the WIN.
Fight me.
Nintendo steals from and harasses youtubers liberally, is generally anti consumer, and they deserve any misfortune they receive. Reminder that SEGA has many old games on Steam for incredibly reasonable prices during sales, often with improvements over the original versions too (SA2 widescreen for example).
Thank you for bringing attention to this