Recumbent Bike Vs Road Bike: Manon Challenges Hank To A Race
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2021
- Recumbent bikes are the fastest type of bicycle thanks to their aerodynamics and low position. But just how do they compare to a road bike? Manon took on James around Castle Combe race track to find out in a time trial challenge.
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Leave us a comment below! - Sport
Credit to GCN for not being anti recumbent and anti ebike, 2 traits I see with many hardcore roadies.
To be fair, most roadies only get annoyed at 500-1000w E-bike riders taking their Strava KOMs. Old boy needing some extra help getting to the shops? Rock on - better he’s on an E-bike than in a car.
To be fair, GCN had a few laughs at recumbents over the years prior to Hank taking the challenge of learning how to ride it.
I don't actually know any roadies that are anti either of those. Taking KOMS is the only irritating part, but I see more getting taken by people in cars forgetting Strava is still recording. E-bikes are great for a lot of reasons and for a lot of people. Recumbent bikes look a bit dorky, but lets be honest, so do most roadies. People getting outside happy and healthy is all that really matters. I'd love to be able to share a climb with a significant other if an e-bike is what makes it possible.
Of course we hard-core roadies are disparaging of recumbents. I mean, they're different from what we're used to, so they can't possibly be any good! 😀 I was a semi-serious road racer for upwards of 40 years, and for half that time I rode a recumbent to work on a daily basis. Loved both of them!
@@silverburn55 Or a young woman cycling 30km to work and back. Or and e-cargobike to move children or loads of other stuff. Everything is better than a car. Sure, the batteries are still an issue, but space is as well and there are already way too many cars. a recumbrent is nice for the same 30km trip if you want to stay dry(er) and not use any electricity.
simon's TT vs the recumbent
simon with the recumbent vs 5 with TT bikes
👀
Not one TT but two.
He'll still get whooped unless the five of them get a fast start and then block the track.
@@manonrides Do it you know you want to :-D
The one thing a recumbent doesn't nail - slow mo shots.
I was waiting for Manon to take a turn a little too fast and the slow mo showing the bent on two wheels :-D
But yeah, not much to see on a velo like this, up a steep enough hill you can barely tell they are doing anything!
Hans Device? No.
You can get an even faster 2 wheeled low racer that looks cool leaning in the turns.
@@matejlieskovsky9625 yeah on a hill it just looks like it has a weak electric motor moving the thing.
@@TimpBizkit I was once catching up to two Quests up a hill on a brevet. Trust me, "weak electric motor" is an understatement of how unimpressive their movement appeared. I could barely tell they were moving and I am no fast climber myself. Seeing one of them thunder past me at a ridiculous speed down the slightest of downhills a little later was a different thing entirely...
Here in Australia we actually race recumbents (HPVs) in massive endurance events. You should come down under after Covid and enter the HPV Murray Bridge 24 hour as the GCN team. The Murray Bridge event has over 500 teams competing and would be great for you guys to come and race in. I'm sure my team wouldn't mind having you guys join if there's only 1 or 2 of you coming.
upvote so they see this plz.
They were lined up to do the 24 hour pedal car race at Shenington last year but Covid got in the way...
Can we please get HPV racing in the EU? I ride Audax organized by a local group of recumbent riders and watching the huge cruise missiles thunder past you on the slightest of downhills is a sight to behold.
@@matejlieskovsky9625 There are the World Championships being held in Amsterdam this year in July.
Up
after covid?
not sure if that ever hapoens unless most people got it
whos faster ? 5 Presenters in an Recumbent Bike vs SI on an Aero Bike
Only for Ollie to get dropped a third of the way in because he brought his light-weight recumbent instead of the aero one.
5 presenters in just one recumbent? That will be quite the human origami exercise.
@@ruan13o we need to spice those challenges up, thats why. Also Ollie cant get dropped that way... maybe...
@@Vokunos He can fall out.
@@magguscrow 😂
next: Manon vs Hank's dad on e-bike
yes
Manon in this recumbent vs. Si on his time trial bike (that the four others couldn't catch).
Manon in the recumbent AND Hank's dad on an E-bike vs. Si on his TT bike.
And if that fails,Anyone on anything vs. Si on his TT bike as Si's head will be so big from winning so often that his aero advantage will vaporise.
EMBN already did this on a track
It would have to be an e-bike that doesn't revert to human power mode above a certain speed threshold of say 15 or 20 mph, otherwise the e-bike only has an advantage in a slower uphill race.
I couldn't stop laughing when I heard Manon dropping the f bomb in that curve. I swear that it look like a Pixar movie rating 18+.
Top notch. Now put in someone who is used to riding those velomobiles. Try and 5v1 that.
And remember, keep smiling. 😎 👍
n vs 1 wouldn't help. Someone who knows how to race that milan will breeze past the world peloton.
I'm an novice cyclist on my Raptobike Low racer recumbent and regularly try and do the Castle Coombe circuit in Tuesday evenings during the summer hours. I was intregued about the video and time comparison. Don't do long distances or training, just get out when I can. Personal lap time of 4min 21 and top speed 34mph. It's the acceleration that is the most outstanding thing though, as well as the comfort. It's not for everyone mind you.
@@appa609 O I know. I'd be a hoot to see them try though. 🤣
Yes, and have Richard Schaffenroth or Matthias König ride the velomobile when they are in shape. That would be a fun workout for the pros ... till they get lapped ... for the third time ...
A long time ago, there was the account of a racer (experienced but not world or Olympic class) in an HPV lapping a four-man pursuit team in a velodrome.
Thankyou GCN for once again highlighting just how good recumbents can be. Would very much like to see more velomobile and streamliner content as it is an exciting area of cycling that is dying to be fully embraced by the cycling community
I'd quite like to see upright velomobiles, or enclosed road road bikes. They'd probably be the best of all world. Imagine that also with e-assist. Would make cars seem useless.
@@RoScFan I have seen pictures of faired upright bikes but the glass house effect of 100 % transparent fairing made them too hot to ride. I wonder if they forgot to put in air intake holes :-)
@@RoScFan No, enclosed road bikes would fall over with the least bit of cross wind.
@@RoScFan The increased frontal area is a big problem for uprights. What do you think is the downside to bents?
@@matejlieskovsky9625 They weigh more - certainly mine does... Only an issue on hills really. I have a velomobile (not the Milan) on order at the moment...
Thanks for adding velomobile content and please continue featuring this terrific human powered technology. More velomobile content please!
I'm so pleased you made another recumbent video 😍
Hank: Trying to get as aero as possible
Drops: Am I a joke to you?
On the hoods with bent elbows is the most (safe) aero dynamic position on a road bike
@@CBMaster2 it's also much more comfortable
@@CBMaster2 blah blah blah getting down on the bars sucks but it sure is quicker.
Nice. There’s just one statement that needs correction: The velomobile‘s natural habitat is not the closed circuit, but the open road - just like the road bike. Compare the two over a 200 km track with 1500 m of climbing or so, and put trained riders on both machines (that is riders trained for the specific bike).
their natural habitat are flat windy countries. it would win.
@@ray076NL you should check out @rhein228s videos...
@@TheAegisClaw stupid me is allready subscribed to him, doesn't mean i'm wrong, it means i'm from the netherlands. i have never seen a velomobile being beaten by a racing cyclist. ever. I now think his suggestion is great though, but put mark beaumont against john williams over a longer distance.
Yes its faster, but so are some e-bikes and nearly all motorcycles. Who cares? Its all about what you want to ride. If you want to go fast get an Audi RS8.
@@tianyi05 that's one of the most stupid comments I've ever seen on CZcams. Well done!
Manon sound just likr me when I was a totally beginner on the recumbent. the muscles are different and the time can still be much better
How are the muscles different!??!?!
@@RoScFan He worded it unclearly. Human physiology does not change but since the legs are up on the pedals in some models well above the bum and the gravity works differently on different muscle groups due to the different leg position recumbent riders tend to emphasize different muscle groups. Some beginners tire out mid ride without any warning I hear in the first few months. It did not happen to me ever so YMMV. I guess my background in several sports helped me avoid adjusting problems. Starting in cold weather I found climbing in a a lot of clothing that restricted movements and muscle contractions made climbing tougher than on normal bikes. Once the weather warmed up and I got more riding in and was able to use less restricting clothing climbing became equal to a similar weight regular bike. People make too much of a fuss about recumbents climbing. They climb just fine.
@@RoScFan I dont know, but I feel the difference when riding an upright and a recumbent, the place where you feel tired is different. And there is the difference of heart height compared to lower and upper body so there will be different blood pumping and perfusion
very true. I spent about 7 years on 'bents only. I'm back on upright bikes mostly now, and just can't get my 'bents up to speed like I used to.
@@RoScFan a lot of the minor muscles Involved are different, it takes several weeks to many months to go from a fit upright rider and convert that into a fit recumbent rider.
More Manon please!
Having more female presenters in general would be a good thing.
6.8Kg full carbon Pinarello beaten by a 20Kg bike. shows that areo is more important then bike weight and that the most un-aero part of the bike is the rider.
On the flat it's no contest. Wouldn't want to climb a bike like that though, and in the mountains a lot more time is spent on the climb than the descent, so that's where time is made. "Horses for courses" as they say.
@@wilfdarr Yep, would be a totally different story in the hills.
@@wilfdarr In 2019 in the Trans America Bike Race a velomobile won easily despite the 65.000 metres vertical (210.000 feet) and overtook the leader on an uphill. So, on a mixed course the velombile will always win.
@@matteodiluce9387 They are also way more comfortable which is very important while doing long-distance racing.
@@honza-galla Exactly, no sore butt, wrists and neck. Just reclining with a drink and putting out a hundredsomething watts in the flat and 300something uphill.
I've done more than 400 kilometres in one day in my Milan SL, and I used to be a sprinter formerly. If I can do that ... 😁
Manon swearing like a sailor is the real victory here!
2:40 "54-30 on the front." New Dura-Ace range is impressive, 24 teeth! :D
that inner chain ring doesn't look like a 30. I'm running a 52-34 and it shifts fine, but can be a little clunky. i can't imagine a 50-34. Is that right? Is that some special pro set up?
I guess it's 54 at front, 30 at back
@@Cabomccabe I think he misspoke, it's labeled 50-34 on the chainring
I have a 50-34 so it must be that. I have a 52-42-30 triple also, though in the quest for the ultimate hill climber bike it got replaced by a 44-32-22 with a 9 speed 42-11 cassette. I'm not sure whether the braze on derailleur will handle the smaller chainrings though so I've kept the originals just in case.
@@Cabomccabe 50-34 up front is standard... well no.. common. It’s usually called compact. You’ve got 50-34, 52-36, and 53-39. More and more you’re seeing bikes come with a compact up front, and minimum 11-28 rear, if not a 32 or even 11-34. Personally, I like a 50-34 up front and 11-34 in the rear. For me, the climbing range is more important that having 5 gears from which to choose my perfect cadence on the flats. The beauty of options!!
0:14 Manon arrives like a Bond villain. Could we have the first female Bond villain right here, right now?!
nah, not black enough...
So Rosa Klebb, May Day, Xenia Onatopp and Elektra King were with the good guys in your eyes?
Manon, I don’t think the race was the only thing you won, you also won most swearing ‘bleeps’.
Thinking of a track day with Manon, this was not what I had expected, but definetly a fun surprise.
I feel like they sleep in their cycling kits
... in the Milan SL. Which is super comfy, BTW.
Absolutely not, haha, they're just going for 80 kph
Amazing job, guys! Great video! Always glad to see recumbents on the channel.
Manon Lloyd still Queen of the Track! Loved this
Manon is having so much fun in this!
Good job!
When the next Battle Mountain WHPSC (world human powered speed challenge) occurs you guys should send out a team or hire me as your special reporter. Fully streamlined recumbent racing on a closed of section of highway reaching speeds close to 90 miles per hour! Usually in September when there is no global pandemic.
This episode had me smiling the whole time. So cute the way manon's head bobs up and down in the recumbent. So funny. Thank you guys.
Love these Mannon vs Hank videos. Bring on more!
Next the ultimate showdown: Manon in the recumbent vs Si on the TT bike vs 5 GCN presenters working together.
This right here. On the Castle Combe course, so the 5 presenters have some kind of chance.
0:40 "You're not going to *beep* win this"
Awesome, comparison! Loved the race and that beautiful velomobile. Do you have a link to Velo-ads?
You should do recumbent vs 2 road cyclists ?.
Ah s***, here we go again
recumbent vs 2 TTs
@@o1s2e3l4p5o6s7e8l9 great idea
I've tried that a few times by occasion (I ride faired recumbents more or less similar to this one). Depends very much on the wind then; with a fat tailwind, a group of experienced TT-riders will beat me, as I have no advantage off them and no advantage from the tailwind. Into a headwind, I have never lost a battle against anything other than another recumbent (that includes E-bikes).
@@4nz-nl you need to use RANS sail trikes on tailwinds
When Manon dropping f-bombs and cursing you know she means business! Hank didnt stand a chance.
160 W to go 50 km/h, now that is efficiency!
That and your ass doesn't hurt!
With a bit of tuning you can reduce drag even more and only use 135 Watts to 140 Watts at 50kph. cW can drop to 0.072 in record trim. It is quite astounding.
problem is she said she averaged 270 watts yet her top speed was 35mph or 56kmh. don't quite add up.
@@barmouthbridge8772 Don't forget she wasn't going straight in that race
@@barmouthbridge8772 she probably did the max watts at the start, and for the top speed she used like 200w
manon and Hank make a great duo! Always fun topics and banter.
Just what I asked for, Thankyou Manon and James.
I am so happy the recumbent won, after all those aerodynamics simulations the engineers have to model to create that shape.
I've been waiting for another velomobile video! Brilliant! How about a race over ten or 100 laps next time? (No, I'm not volunteering!)
Still want to see century race. As always, love these videos!
kudos for a most excellent head to head video with people that know their stuff!
Next race John in his velo or Neil, they'd leave you two upright riders in the dust. Can take over 3 months to train the extra muscles recumbents use, to be able to fully go fast with them.
took me a few years to get to peak power on a recumbent
Some people tend to think that velomobiles are meant for flat roads. But I really enjoy riding my DF on a hilly terrain, too. The momentum that you get when going downhill takes you far to the coming uphill, and with the speed that I have never experienced with an upright
I've got a Velocity Velo that I rarely take out because I live in a hilly area. There's no worse feeling than having to stop that beast at a stale red light at the bottom of a giant hill. At that point you have to come to a dead stop and only get two seconds to catch your breath!
Fortunately I just got a refurbished Lightning R-84 and I love it. It *eats* hills.
Brilliant! Love the experience of a recumbent bike!
That was so cool to see the comparison, thank you for making that video. It would be interesting to see the lap times if you swapped bikes.
That Pinarello looks pretty good when Hank leans it through the sweeping corners at 4:58.
Make more With that velomobiles 😍
Fantastic! Thanks John for making this happen. More challenges. Let's get Si in one for a month to get his bent legs and then see how it goes.
great to see more 'non-standard' bikes on GCN. Would love to some of you massive-armed presenters try a handbike. Hank vs Para-athelte?
Always great to see HPVs featured! Result was inevitable, but an experienced rider in the Milan would knock 30+ seconds off that time.
HPV?! You can get a vaccine for them you know...
@@Shellewell HPV=Human Powered Vehicle
HPV=Humane Papilloma Virus
==> HPV≠HPV
@@thomasmore260 I mean... yeah. It's called making a joke.
Great video, guys! Hats off to Manon for taking the velomobile around the track so quickly! But just imagine someone actually used to riding that thing, who can take the turns at the limit and then do ten laps ... ... ... no, let's not imagine that ... that would be utterly devastating and frustrating for whoever from the GCN team gets destroyed. ;) )
Just ignore that the 24 hour record was set a few years back by a 56 year old Austrian gentleman at over 30mph... for 24 hours... again for those in the back... averaged over 30mph for 24 hours straight. In a basically stock Milan like she was riding.
@@scottmcelhiney323 I don't ignore the fact that the 24-hr-record was set by an amateur gentleman from the North of Germany (that's where Christian from Ascheberg, RIP, was from) in a highly optimised special edition Milan SL CAS on a very fast track with no tight turns and. Still 50.8 kph or 31.57 mph for 24 hours is unbelieveablely amazing!
@@scottmcelhiney323 Remember that a "stock" Milan still retails for about $13,000. It's a human-powered racecar.
@@budwyzer77And remember that a much slower top-of-the-line stock road racing bike these days costs quite a bit more.😂
@@budwyzer77 Racecar/commuter/grocery getter/getting pulled over by the police because they think it has to have an engine....
Manon reached 44 km/h average and Hank 42 km/h. The best recumbent rider can reach up to 60-62 km/h average speed on a similar circuit, standing start. Here are the results of the 2018 HPV world championships: www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events18/wc2018/02-tt/TT-WC2018.html
Great show. I like to see all kinds: mountain bikes, down hills, fixies, recumbents, velomobiles, as well as road bikes. They're all interresting to me.
Manon on ICE VTX vs. Alex on Greenspeed Aero vs. Hank on Bachetta Carbon Trike 2.0 vs. Connor on Catrike 700 vs. Ollie on classic WindCheetah with fairing vs. Si on Orbea Ordu TT
Honestly, this is some of the best and most fun content on the internet these days. Thank you guys.
Loved this video, nice one GCN!
I really love these videos, big thumbs up👍👍🚲
Before seeing the vid, recumbent wins
Same here. I only watched it to see how much she beat him by.
I was marginally concerned when it was only two miles (a distance I would often wheel in my chair rather than breaking out a pedal powered machine).
Nice to see Velo-ads going from RJ to GCN
I am riding a questxs velomobil since 2014 and it's awesome. 🥰
Well, that's given me a nice starting target for when I've got my velomobile finished and take it to castle combe!
That "400 watts c'mon" brought me flashback of jeremy Clarkson screaming POWERRRRR
And JC calling them 'bicyclists'? With the mocking tone?
Nice video! More recumbents please, they are faster, girls are happier and you can stay warmer inside 😉
and sweaty and we dont get to see their cute butts in tights...so, theirs that.
Well done GCN. We all knew who was going to win before watching the video, yet we still watched it!
I love experiments like this!
It's educational.
Great stuff! Please cover the Human Powered Vehicles World Championships in July (in Amsterdam!)
Or any recumbent racing. The Britisch Human Power Club does them all the time, I think. Or actually they do races where any human powered vehicle may enter, but upright bikes just don't have a chance of winning. 😉 Would be a great chance for GCN to just enter a few riders on their uprights and get smoked by fifty-year-olds. 😁 Not much hassle with setting up the event, either.
Then there are the crazy Australian velomobile races with lots of contact and rolling over. 😄
@@PsyKeks You don't roll once.....it's like 2.5 rolls and a slide lol. Then you're yelling at a Marshall that you're not hurt (ego is) and to hurry up and put you upright again to get out there. Murray Bridge is our 24hr endurance race, madness but so much fun.
This video needed to be an hour long!!
05:22 Love the bike throw over the line! Every second counts, Hank!
brill loved this and to too see the velo in action great a clear winner
Never heard Manson let they language fly so much. That was funny.
did you remember to smile, Manon?
I 'get' the comment. 😁
I love GCN recumbent videos!!!
Great vid! I was hoping for a head-to-head race too....
Strange hearing Manon getting 'bleeped' 🤣😂
I know everyone’s said it, but you know we need Manon in the recumbent and the Siborg on his TT bike!
Finally, I've been wanting to see this video
I have been looking forward to this!
Hank hit 1100 watts what the fu-
Hank would have won if he didn't have the extra drag from that label dangling from his scarf
Look up pedal Prix. Here in South Australia we have a whole comp of those recumbent trikes.
Speed comparisons for myself
Recumbent (Morciglio M1 Lowracer) 28.6 mph avg.
Cervelo P3 aluminum with 808 wheel set: 24.4 mph avg.
Steel cross bike, 700x32 knobbie, flat shoes, shorts: 21.4 mph avg
Same course (Belle Isle 5.44 mile loop in Detroit) at “maximum effort”. My recumbent was built by my friend John Morciglio. It would be good to see a comparison race between a decent racing recumbent and a top quality time trial bike on GCN! 😀
We need Si on tt bike versus recumbent
Ollie might be able to keep up in that up turned trike in a bath tub.
Would like to see that again with a flying start, to offset for the acceleration differences. Probably going to be worse for Hank.
Yep, dont know how long Manon took to get up to speed but it would show how slow a bike really is against a recumbant
5 v 1 v recumbent, with a flying start.
@@billinhouston3291 *5 TTs
they should also mix it up with reality, have them both stop and carry thier respective machines on their backs for 10 yards. ;]
Really good call mentioning those wattages to improve the comparison, it's important to bring up the main advantage of velomobiles: Not necessarily faster, but with less effort if rider so desires.
I race recumbent trikes competitively in Australia. Our season last year was cancelled due to COVID. Rolling starts are the way to go, one we hit pace we can sit at 50-55km/h for the guys and 45-50km/h for the girls. The sprints we can do in these are insane..... terrifying actually, but such good fun.
Would like to see Hank give his best effort in the recumbent to see how his figures compare to the road bike effort.
Riding in a condom doesn't look very fun.
@@MrBJPitt Ironically the advert in the middle of the film was for Durex!
@@iang9746 hahaha
Manon: I WON SOMETHING!! 😆
Other thing with the recumbent is you have loads of storage for touring (or maybe just groceries), and it won't cost you in terms of aero like panniers or a bikepacking setup would. Definitely a longer term aspiration to have one.
Finally another recumbent bike video!
Considering Manon does car racing, I'm expecting some tight lines
Manon absolutely bombed it, she took the apexes like a pro car racing driver.
Yes she was much better at taking the racing line
Why aren't we all riding recumbents? So many positives. Can't think of too many negatives
They are expensive, heavy (which makes them slow to get moving and up hill) and the visibility in cities is miserable (not a good city bike). And they were banned by the UCI, which might be the biggest part.
@@matejlieskovsky9625 Heavier and generally more expensive, yes. Not all recumbents are terrible in the visibility aspect. And yeah, UCI banned them, and that has helped making them less appealing.
@@ikimarcos I meant all of that generally. Average upright will be lighter, cheaper and have better visibility than the average bent. The same will likely go for the extremes - an upright city bike is pretty much without competition from the recumbents simply due to the head not being far enough forward. But yes, highracers are decent for a city bike. Not that I'd want one - horses for races and all that. But you do you!
@@matejlieskovsky9625 Cool, man. I indeed ride a recumbent in the city, and while it has its shortcomings like you stated, it also has unexpected advantages. Namely, being such an unusual sight that cars will actually ride way slower just to check what it is - increasing safety. I rode uprights for years and had never such an experience.
Nice and exciting comparison! I prefer not having slow motion in the video, especially with the recumbent since it really seemed to be slowing down.
I knew the results were a foregone conclusion. I would have perferd to see a straight race, one on one. Thanks.
So obviously the aerodynamics from the frame/chassis of the recumbent really cut down on the time... I am curious though: Is it harder to put out wattage just because of how she's positioned? (not being able to push down on the pedals w/ gravity)
Loved the content btw!
I am not qualified.
I believe the riding position would only be a disadvantage with sprinting (out of the saddle).
Yes, it is harder as you cannot get out of the saddle and work with your body weight. Plus accelerating the heavier bike is harder. But once it's up to speed ...
On a 2.5 kilometre lap in the Netherlands with a few tighter (at that speed) turns I averaged around 55 kph/34.4 mph for 3 hours. So it's easy to keep the speed high. But accelerating out of the slower turns at 400+ watts every time became hard during the last hour.
lolll manon screaming in the thing xD CAMANN
Great you made this happen guys 👍👍👍👍😍 aero anyway -> all against the headwinds 👌
Manon you're hilarious! More like this please.
Wish you would call it a velomobile rather than recumbent since every velomobile is a recumbent but not every recumbent is a velomobile.
370 for 5 min? I'm impressed Hank!
Not even 5 minutes. I would expect more from an ex pro. Many amateur riders can hold over 400 W for 10 minutes or more.
@@666Dejmien666 Are those guys vegan?
@@ivansemanco6976 I hope not! The hell with that vegan bullshit.
@@666Dejmien666 What's your FTP?
@@michaelkennedy9064 Can't test that without power meter.
Yay! Happy to see Manon win something too!! :D
In the 80s I was a Cat 1 amateur USCF cyclist.
A university engineering class built a fully enclosed recumbent and needed a rider. My sponsor True Temper provided tubing for this team and I rode a few events for them up to the International Human Powered Vehicle Championship.
The IHPVC was on a 2 mile Nascar oval. One event was an hour time trial. The winner was the Gold Rush ridden by Freddie Martins? I think I was lapped 4 or 5 times on the two mile track. I did 38.?? miles in that hour!
During warmup for one event, I was riding my bicycle. I wanted to draft a HPV to see how long I could stay on. I stayed behind it to 30+ mph. Then it just left me. There was no draft because of high aerodynamics.