Hungary's Greatest Catastrophe - Treaty of Trianon
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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If you've ever taken a peak into Hungarian history or culture, one of the most prevalent historic events that dominates the topic is none other than the Treaty of Trianon. Since the 1920s, this has been the single most controversial event in Hungarian history. However, not many foreigners are that familiar on what it was, and why so many Hungarians think of it as a grave injustice. In this video we go explain the treaty's impact & how it transformed the country.
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Sources:
mek.oszk.hu/02100/02185/html/1...
library.hungaricana.hu/hu/vie...
"The Hungarians" by Paul Lendvai
"Eastern Europe!" By Tomek Jankowski
"Hungary: A Short History" by Norman Stone
"The Struggle For A Just Peace:" Speech Delivered by Count Albert Apponyi, President of the Hungarian Delegation to the Peace Conference in Paris, Before the Supreme Council at Its Session on 16 January
hungarianreview.com/article/2...
ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapter...
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I'm Hungarian
Magyarország
@@tpgYT. Sorry bro 🙏
Love your videos!💚
@@tpgYT.én is (me too)
Ik @@enderfire3379
If you claim to be Hungarian, but don't have at least 1 playthrough in Hearts of Iron IV where you restored Greater Hungary, then you're not truly Hungarian
I do it every few weeks in different mods and paths.
same can be said about Romanians, restoring Greater Romania !
I ruled half of Europe in Civilization 6. Does it count? ;)
bonus points if you saved the poles from.... well.... almost everyone while doing it
Does roleplaying Hungary, restoring its territory and anexing Romania to commit geonocide there in hoi4 make me Hungarian then ?
Bringing up trianon in a group discussion with hungarian citizens is like switching game modes from team deathmatch to free for all
loool
No. It is like switching from free for all to team deathmatch because it's easy to take a side 😂
Edit: Added the word "team" before "deathmatch".
@@Hardcore_Remixer free for all is a deathmatch
@@sigged Sorry, I wanted to mean team deathmatch.
@@Hardcore_Remixer your comment didnt cook properly bro...
I will stay neutral on this one, my doctor is Hungarian and my dentist is Romanian, living in Germany is really tricky
Everyone thinks its so easy to live here but the fact is its not. Its challenging in another complex way similar to Britain Id say
As long as you are not Turkish, you should be fine.
@@bogdananghel2498 🤣🤣🤣
hmmm.. and thats why we dont have doctors and dentists in eastern europe 😢
@@bencesomorjai6632 yeah and even HERE they get super rare and you need months for get an appointment. Idk what they did for management here in Europe but there are somethings going haaaaaardly wrong. But in Germany the debate was rarely so heated as now
as a hungarain it feels weird someone explaning this so well in under 15 mins
As a Hungarian we are descended From the Khazars,Huns,Avars
@@Atilla_Kaan The Khazars never became Hungarians, though. They still have their own separate religion and political interests to this day.
@@Atilla_Kaan that's stupid
and unbiased!
that to@@pomiisodst
There are things that are worse than war. Like, losing a war, for example.
Bulgaria lost both wars but still gained territory though
@@josephsatricleofevillanuev3194 bulgaria is stronger than logic though, real reason Russia doesn't declare war on NATO is not because of nuclear armageddon with the united states but because bulgaria is strongest country in the world 💪💪💪💪
Austria loses the war... gets territories from Hungary at trianon.
@@adamcako5281 most of the ripped if territories were divided by ethnicity
@@dietrichdietz yes, there were mostly Croats and Austrians but still.
Also the principle of following ethnic boundaries was not applied to the other territories, not even slightly.
When Neil Armstrong took his first step on the moon, the first thing he saw was an old Hungarian flag.
there is no way you are not a Romanian for knowing that joke.
Nah, this is quite basic. It's like saying the Dacians built the Pyramids.
@@bigzed7908 both your and TimisDaniels statements are correct.
But we all know that first there were Serbs, then developed the amoebae, and after several hundred millions of years of evolution, the rest of the nations developed.
@@nenadireland Blasphemy.
when i was in budapest, even the guide, who was a student and didn't like orban, went on a 10 minute rant about trianon
You dont have to like or dislike Orbán to also hate Trianon. Its a shared feeling between hungarians.
@@fritzier5475 unfortunately its not that shared anymore. liberals do not care about trianon nor do they care about the interests of the nation. they are filthy traitors to our nation
whether you like orban or not Hungary is based and epic with or without orban. i think orban lost his mojo with his Ukraine takes .i guess some Hungarians still hate Ukraine over that time they annexed a farm in the year 1000 or something
trianon has nothing to do with orban or even with the political left/right. some people want to make it political, they can get fvcked. also nothing to do with education, a jewish surgeon with a PhD will start the same rant just as fast as anyone in hungary. in the socialist era, there was a push to equate anger over trianon with fascism and antisemitism, just as they did with the revolution of 1956. sadly some people from that generation believed those lies and nobody really had the chance to argue with the official party ideology, that may be the main reason these things/associations still exist today for a small (but sometimes loud) minority. people outside hungary can’t be expected to have a deep understanding of the historical context if this is not something they especially care about, so I guess these things are unavoidable and happen everywhere.
As ukranians having a rant, right? Though they are just lising fifth of their territory....Think!
János did a great job, presenting correctly the narrative of both sides.
I want to believe that videos like this help to maintain peace and the common prosperity of Central European countries.
Which both sides ? There are more than two sides involved here.
I mean considering that he only used mainstream sources, he did a decent job. It's just a pity he didn't research a bit deeper to find the actual root of the events, which was Freemasons who started undermining Hungarian politics as early as 1906 when they already had it all planned out.
@@matewbran5951 hun vs all minorities of "greater hungary" (croatians, serbs, slovenians, romanians, slovaks etc.), the later so-called "Little Entente"
@@Treveljan In my opinion it is a mistake to consider this as one side. Not at the end of WW1:and not after. There was very little coordination among this group of countries.
* Janosz / Janoš
The funny part is how France was telling to stop this "horrible empire" when they had territories in Asia, Oceania and Africa being used to extract their resources.
Not just that. The Magyarization policy was based on the french minority policy, who in 19th century, perfectly assimilated their minorities.
French colonialism was hypocritical from the start, claiming to bring civilization to africa and asia but really only trying to compete with england imperial power. Trianon was also just about realpolitik : they couldnt dissolve germany in the treaty of versailles so they just surrounded it with friendly power by carving up hungary.
@@Medvelelet your answer is more relevant that the commentary. There was a tacit agreement that Europe was a different place from the others thus the comparison is strange contrary to the comparison with the way of how the regional languages have been swept away in France
Yeah well the British used the same against Czechoslovakia and their treatment of Germans in the Sudetenland... Not to brag or anything, but ethnic minorities in Czechoslovakia had the best rights in Europe with the right to language, work, vote everything... Meanwhile the British were raping Africa like nothing happened
@@therealnuggetballYou opressed every ethnic minority before ww2, and ethnically cleansed most of your lands after ww2. You must be a comedian.
As a romanian, I wish all the Eastern Europe and Balkan countries will cooperate much better in the future, to create a political pole of influence in order to avoid being used as pawns on the chess table by the big world powers.
There are countries being mistaken as Eastern European countries but they're Northern Europe like Scandinavia.
Lietuva, Latvija & Eesti 🇱🇹🇱🇻🇪🇪
Yeah, we won't.
@@giadf9747 Aaa. That's because context is important. Do you divide Europe in 4 quadrants or 2 halves? Most refer to EU as West EU and East EU in reference to the postbelic period due to how America and URSS divided most countries.
@@purple66666 I see Europe divided into 5 parts to be exact
@@giadf9747 You guys are all Ruzzianz
Egysegykre! I am a Slovak, our family has not Hungarians in its tree, there is some German/Czech. I do not speak or understand Hungarian, but have visited Hungary a couple of times, never had any problems with the local people there. I also met some Hungarians in the Tatra mountains during hikes, nice people. I also met a group of Hungarians in Prague, again nice people. I never had any problems with "Slovak" Hungarians, and I fully respect their culture. I have been to venues in specific parts of southern Slovakia, that were held bilingual (Slovak and Hungarian) and I have no problem with it. I have no problem with Hungarian schools even in Bratislava. I want us all to get along, be kind to each other and enjoy life. Slovakia and Hungary are both in the EU, NATO, the border is only an imaginary line on a map. Everyone can travel freely, work where they desire, speak their language. I never supported any nationalist "us vs. them" parties, because we all sit in the same boat. So please, my dear neighbors to the south, let us live in peace together and strive for a better future of our children. A future based on mutual respect and cooperation. I want my neighbors to live and prosper, because only when my neighbors are having a good living, I can have a good living too.
This is entirely up to you now. You are in the position now where you should make gestures to Hungarians on a government level, and I think most Hungarians would make peace. But you need to acknowledge that as the one in the winning position, you have to make the first step.
@@mateus750who cares about Hungarians honestly, besides other hungarians
@@rizzllerr well many fought alongside hungarians for millenia we just lost too many against the byzantine empire mongol empire ottoman empire habsburg empire russian empire i mean who wants to stand with us? with such disadvantage we face all the time? :D hey its ok
This subjects are used by some groups to study what is the impact on population, so that when needed like in political campaigns, they will know what to do.
So pay attention to the puppeteer.
I would love if we could all live in peace, but what you said about the border being an imaginary line is simply false. For a while not too long ago hungarians were, in fact, not allowed to speak their language in Slovakia specifically. I'm pretty sure it's over by now and wasn't a big thing, but it shows that it isn't that simple.
A note already for 0:50
That was very much NOT the case. There was an entire thing about the Hungarian part of the empire declining to agree to a declaration of war against Serbia unless the warhawks caved to a demand to not annex any further territory into the empire (in this case pointedly from Serbia)
Yep, even the main goal of the Austrian leadership was to reign Belgrade in, take them from the Russian sphere of influence, and stop them from actively pursuing south slavic unification. I don't think the aim was to conquer.
Denying belgrade to become strong enough and unify south slavs was the main pivot of imperial policy since the Serbs got thier independence from the Turks. The annexation of Bosnia, and the occupation of novi pazar was done also to keep south slavs fractured/deny serbia of access to the sea.
The guys in Vienna were stupid, but they understood that keeping together the empire is hard enough as it is, and annexing millions of angry serbs would not help the cause.
@@gyorgymuller5060Tisza was generally against the war, it took the ill-fated "Stop at Belgrade" plan to convince him to agree to it, on the premise that the Empire was just going to parade over Belgrade to save face and slap the Serbs a bit (well, not really "a bit" - bombing and some light pillaging was probably to be expected).
@@fakeplaystore7991 I know that the Hungarian part of the monarchy was against the war. Budapest even delayed the events, until the combined pressure from Berlin, and Vienna was just too much.
I just noted that while it true that Vienna was way more pro-war, their goal wasn't conquest, as it is stated in the video.
There have been protests against the war in Budapest, but nobody could do anything since the Hungarian army was abroad, and the Kaiser had total control over these troops.
Trianon was the 3rd tragedy. The ottoman occupation was the 2nd 1st was the tatárs. 4th biggest tragedy was being stucked behind the iron curtain
Are you specifically referring to the Battle of Mohacs where Hungary was split into two between Austria and Ottoman Empire?
Basically the 1th and the 2nd said tragedy granted an ethnicly diverse Hungary, thus giving a reason to make the treaty of trianon.
@@h00d3dcrow Hungary was an ethnic diverse country since its foundation, Slovaks, Romanians and Ruthenians being there even before Hungarians arrived in the Carpathian Basin
@@metodiusm428 Yes, but they were negligable in numbers. The series of demographic catastrophes meant that the country became less and less hungarian by the centuries.
@@Medvelelet The country of Hungary was never a homogeneous ethnic Hungarian state, it was since the beginning ethnically diverse, there were Slovaks in the North, Ruthenians and Romanians in the Eastern mountains where they formed the majority in Ruthenia and Transylvania, and even Cumans in Kunsag which were assimilated by Hungarians, and many towns which were built by Germans.
Note:From 1918 until 1921, violence against Hungarians and by occupying troops against each other rocked mainland Hungary. 1919 saw four months of communist "Red Terror" before Adm. Miklos Horthy's National Army militia unleashed "White Terror."
Horthy, who served as regent from 1920 to 1944, claimed that "only an iron broom can sweep the country clean" and declined to offer an apology for the atrocities.
Based Admiral.
Very based of him.
Red Terror was almost random in it's cruelty, while the white terror had clear targets.
Super based.
Extremely common Horthy W
I used to read a lot of Polish press from the interwar period. I was very interested in how the communist takeover in Hungary after WWI was portrayed. The nationalist press praised the coup, saying it was forced by "unjust" treaties, the socialist press condemned it as an extension of Hungarian imperialism. What I liked best was the Christian press, which stated that there was no revolution and in fact the Hungarian bourgeoisie started "pretending to be communists" so that they could continue to "bully the Slovaks." Interesting how history is not black and white :V
You might have seen more sympathy for them from the Christian press in Poland because Hungarians are also Catholic, whereas many of their subjects who didn't want to be Hungarian at the time were Orthodox. Just saying, think every angle, this might not be relevant today but a century ago it was very relevant. The Hungarian delegation at Trianon tried to argue against the treaty in front of the European great powers based on their "cultural superiority" over Romanians and Serbs, among other things, basically saying that they deserve to rule in territories where the majority of the population doesn't want them because muh kulture iz great.
@@costinhalaicu2746
Not really.
We newer put those people in front line in the battlefield!
Like those shity countries like France, Austria, Belgium, England etc.....
We PROTECT them!
Trough in centuries!
And return they betrayed us,alongside with the west.
But what we could exept descends of thiefs,cannibals and traitors?
😊
@@costinhalaicu2746 That is what was strange about the Christian press that they were against the Hungarians. Well, but after some thinking it has a lot of sense, the main concentration of Christian conservatives was in Krakow, which was in the former Austrian partition, where they simply had contact with Hungarians and how they treated minorities. Things in Europe are always complicated
@@AleksanderK12Right. And most non-Hungarian Catholics at that time in Hungary were of various Slavic ethnic groups except the Dalmatians, whose Romance language has been extinct since the 1890s, and certain Romanian Catholics
My Father is Slovak, my Mother is Hungarian. So i hear about these things always from both sides. The sad part is that in this time and age, we have open borders. Slovakia still exists, Hungary as well, but it does not mean much anymore. Anyone can move freely from country to country. With my Slovak friends i defend Hungarians, with my Hungarian friends i defend Slovakia. We are in this together as we were for 1000 years. Don't let the chauvinist political agenda of Jan Slota from 20 years are ago and the modern agenda of Viktor Orban get under your skin. It does not matter. The borders are set and here to stay. Many Hungarians live in Slovakia, they have the right to learn in their own language, speak their language, celebrate their things. Yes, time to time somebody acts like an idiot, but don't let one person ruin your day.
I am not saying we have it better in Slovakia, especially after the last elections, but many Hungarians are running from Hungary to Slovakia for more freedom and better life and many Hungarians are opening businesses here, since the business environment is just better in Slovakia then in Hungary right now. And as far as i know, that is a good thing, we as two nations, are closer then many people even realize. We have a very long and connected history.
Preach, Királyom ❤
Thank You! Faith in humanity restored!!!
No Hungarian is actually running to Slovakia. Its Hungarians living in Felvidék moving to Hungary. And who says border are here to stay? Borders change constantly
What is the problem with Orbán? Hes trying to end the war in Ukraine by using veto on the billions worth on weapons sent ... Romanians Slovaks Hungarians and Rusyns were stripped of their rights untill Orban pushed on the matter.
@@justhair17 >Borders change constantly
No significant change has occurred since WW2
As of today the reason Treaty of Trianon hurts the hungarians the most is that it generates pointless hate among us ඞ and our neighbours. It is directed to people who have nothing to do with the original conflict.
Thank you János for your unbiased and thoughtful video about the topic and for being one of the few on this platform who can deliver the complexity of this treaty!
Fun fact:
Hungary lost some of it's territory to Austria, the very country that started this war.
Yeah, for some reason, we got boned by even the power that lost the war. I don't even know what they were thinking at the negotiating table. "Hon, hon, hon There will be peace in our time with this one"
@@sued_ Well when it comes to giving land to Austria it was mainly because there was no significant hungarian population in this area. City of Sopron comes to my mind where the inhabitants had a vote about staying in Hungary.
@@attilaszabo5053ye but after a bit of uprising
@@attilaszabo5053 Burgenland rebelled against being annexed by Austria. And Austria was THE losing party, even if it's due to "ethnic minorities", it still made zero sense, because they gave hungarian populated terrotories, neighbouring the drawn Hungarian borders to others. Nothing was about ethnicity.
@@Karabarsz Thank you for sharing this!
Honestly im not nearly as well informed about this region's background as the other territories next to the hungarian border. I hate to spread misinformation so i'm now tempted to edit it but will keep it like the same anyways.
One thing i think we can all agree on is that this treaty had a huge impact on the people living in the pannonian basin and led to more chaos eventually in the coming years after it.
What's really saddening for me is that even today it creates a constant tension between our nations and for some people we are more like competitors than friends despite sharing a long history together and similar way of living our lives.
I disagree. The worst thing that has ever happened to Hungary is not the treaty of Trianon. It’s Fekete Pákó.
Csávót szeressük. Ellop...akarom mondani, mesteri tehetséggel dolgozott át egy dalt majd tette az ország slágerévé. Azóta gondolunk két dologra ha aztmondjuk didi
Goddamit, now you remindid me that he exists
@@furikvon1111Bárcsak ő lenne a miniszterelnök!❤
Pákó is the reincarnation of 2pac
@@AverageHungaryan It his cousin
I wish you would've talked more about France's impact, and how their allies reacted to it (like the US literally boycotting peace talks, and the UK trying to talk France into a more fair peace treaty condition. Or that how the borders were often specifically drawn in a way that ignored ethnic lines, instead, giving these ethnic Hungarian lands away because it had an economic importance (like railway hubs, significant mines, factories, etc etc). But the video is very informative and respectful yet still delivered in a joking way, so nicely done!
Also could have mentioned the Freemasons' undermining of Hun. politics using Oszkár Jászi and his Martinovics Lodge between 1906 and 1912. Knowing about those events, it becomes apparent that they already had the whole thing - including the treaty and both wars - planned out decades earlier.
Many Hungarians hate France with a passion because of that, especially those of the boomer generation
It probably helped that all the 19th century romanians were Frances biggest fanboys.
Well because he is now romainan so tlaks and twist and leave out things like a romanian 🤣😆🤣😆
Its all Frances fault. Like look at that glowing penis in Paris. France is a penis country
Not forgetting also that 62% of Hungarian railway infrastructure was cut off and a significant part of rolling stock was essentially stolen.
Re-possessed 😉
@@NuSuntSerb N-no? I guess you can't know how Hungary built like in the early of 1900'. I won't tell you now, if you wanna know it, then research, but this threaty ruin our economy down to 0.
@@Overdrive_Fancry
@@rizzllerr we wont but truth must prevail
@@Overdrive_Fan bro said heck💀
It is interesting how so many people know lots of things about the war but few knows about the treaty of Trianon and the results after.
Western education and even intellectual / historical discourse completely ignores just how brutal the partition of Austria-Hungary was
@@spointz8936 Yeah we're told so much about how unfair the Versailles treaty was because of funny mustache man. Even though Trianon and Sèvres were undoubtedly harsher, makes me wonder what post WW1 Germany would have been like if they were broken up in a similar way
@@maximumoof6706 There weren't any bit minority groups that could be split of Germany.
Maybe Masurians and Upper Silesians. But both sides mostly preferred Weimar Germany than Poland.
Nobody likes to be the bad guy. If it's something that everybody knows like Germany in WW2 then thewhole nation is telling themselves 7/24 that you must not do this again.
For comparison in a survey done not long ago many grown up japanese failed to recognise the swastika as a hate symbol not even mentioning their lack of knowledge about the nazis. One of them asked if they were the bad guys... Not saying education in western countries is perfect but there are way worse examples for it. As surreal as not being aware of such an important point in history makes me less confused why we tend to make the same bad decisions our ancestors did few centuries or even decades ago.
0:45 i think it's important to notice that somebody was killed, and it wasn't just a random "we'll go to war" decision. Usually killing a prince IS cause for war....
A serbian student assasinated the heir presumptive to the throne of Austria-Hungary, which was the last trigger factor caused the WWI. :(
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
Hungary's greatest catastrophe is actually not just one event, but a continued onslaught of bad luck and misery.
Like...from 900 to last Sunday, it's been the worst succession of just misfortune after misfortune.
It's enough to look at the Anthem of Hungary. It's literally just about begging to God to just have some mercy at least maybe please.
Looking at the whole history of Hungary through the lenses of old slavic mythology would make one consider the possibility that Chernobog really has an axe to grind with them.
"Chernobog" is not an actual mythological figure and, in terms of actual historical suffering, Hungary is pretty much nothing compared to something like Ukraine.
@@avenger4027 Let me guess. Chauvinistic hohol dumbass, right?
@@avenger4027Ukraine did the most stupid decisions, but of course that’s the fault of the leaders. There is absolutely no reason for them to be still fighting and wasting money and resources from everyone that supports them. They aren’t gonna get the territory back by being stubborn. They need a proper consultation to end the war. Also, the Russians over there were a majority and they were still mistreated by the law.
And a continued onslaught of treacherous, greedy, opportunistic leaders.
@@avenger4027 Look, I'm against Russia and all, but comparing Ukraine's historical catastrophes to those of any other Eastern European countries while they lived privileged lives in the Russian Empire is...wrong. Incredibly wrong.
The Holdomor is the only big event of sorrow in Ukrainian history. Nations that lived under the Ottoman Empire have a lot more to complain about.
Didn't the Hungarian element in the Austro-Hungarian parliament refuse to advocate war with Serbia unless the Austrians promised to NOT annex any Serbian land? I thought that was the historical account.
The guy left out a LOT of the story and the video is full of inaccuracies
@@jacky9590which parts?
@@KartingRulesfor example, they didn’t attack serbia and start ww1 for just the sake of gaining land, serbians assasinated the heir, so they were completely right
@@nimrodszocs2795 So the Americans were right to invade Afghanistan because of Saudi terrorists?
@@jacky9590 Of course he left out a lot dfo things he speaks like a true thief(romanian)
It's rare to see someone from the region handle this subject with respect for multiple sides. I think videos like this help to bring us closer instead of dividing us. Great job!
With giant mistakes..
That really horrible, when soneone with such low knowledge as János, can explain anything about the hungarian history before such a big public. This is the dark side of CZcams, that Big Nobodys can teach about false things to the mob...
@@kevhynaleks2631care to explain?
@@alihorda ofc he didn t care to explain :)) i love seeing salty hungos spewing their own fake history all over janos comments sections (while janos is actually trying to be as impartial and fair as possible, while also being 25% hungo)
Trianon was an in-your-face lesson for Hungarians about "the strong do as they wish and the weak suffer what they must" (Thucydides). This is where the current conservative worldview of Hungary being on its own in the world comes from. You can disagree with it (same with the revisionist sentiment 100 years ago) but if you don't understand how it came to be you don't understand history and you don't understand people.
But why should majority slavic and romanian lands belong to Hungary ? And in this case, shoudn't Hungary belong to Austria as it did for hundreds of years until 1918 ?
I think it was the opposite, Trianon was an in-your-face lesson for Hungarians about "the strong do as they wish and the weak suffer what they must", because they thought "we are strong, these minorities in Hungary are weak, we must make a homogenous state, let's magyarize them!". Turns out, minorities (who were more than 50% of the population) really hate you when you try to magyarize them, and earning a reputation as "the jail of nations" earns you no friends at the peace conference.
But Orban's government as the mindset you are talking about. It's astonishing how would could get an in-your-face lesson and then repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
@@3dfxvoodoocards6You saw the map in the video. Look how much territory outside the new borders had majority Hungarian population. While I'm not a far right nutjob who wants everything back I don't blame Hungarians 100 years ago who wanted it back.
@@manwiththeredface7821 - Magyars were in minority (even after Magyarization) in their own Kingdom. That says it all!!!
@@3dfxvoodoocards6 WDYM hundreds of years????
Much love from Poland to our Hungarian brothers!
Lengyel, Magyar - két jó barát!
the feeling when you want to drop the 🔥 Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki 🔥 but bro from Poland is faster 🥹
@@Mephistopheles9 🙂 Have a wonderful day brother!
As a Pole, I have to leave me words of support to all Hungarian friends
It is the biggest catastrophe in history and was just propaganda as we know Hungary still owns the world to this day
Very true indeed
@@LivingIronicallyinEurope It is yo great pleasure you agree
We all know you are not actually an Hungarian but an... sombody is knocking on the door brb
@Phenix1234HD never finish that sentence
@@LivingIronicallyinEurope România la putere! Ardeal pământ românesc! Ardeal=Ardenna from latin Rome ruled this land in 106! 🇷🇴💪🏻☝🏻🏛💯☦️
Blame the french they the ones who drew the borders btw Hungary not the US
Blame the british rather, if they had agreed to dissolve germany like the french wanted, then the french would have no need to surround germany with friendly states like Czechoslovakia and therefore no need to carve up hungary
@@yc6018 typical Britain 9 out 10 border disputes are caused by them
Hungary is more based and epic than France
@@belstar1128 maybe 12th century hungary
@@belstar1128
France negs that irrelevant shithole
Jeez, this does reduces the treaty of versailles that germany got a to mere slap on the wrist.
I think it was machiavelli that talked about wounding a man lighty makes them thirst for vengance but if you wound them severly they can not...
This video is great! We definitely need more videos like this one, showing how some less discussed countries in the media are doing and how they feel about certain historical moments.
1) You sound like the young Orbán Viktor, which I just realised.
2) Great video. One of our greatest losses because of Trianon that many people forget is our intellectuals. A lot of them lived in present day Slovakia, the Highlands as we called back then.
3) Few talk about Hungary (or rather, the Kingdom of Hungary) before Trianon, and especially before the Turkish occupation of 150 years. The idea of "nations" didn't really exist back then. Although I remember our first king István's advices to his son, where he also wrote that he should be mindful of people of several backgrounds in our kingdom, and he should respect them and aim to make it work. In the freaking 11th century.
I think what bothers many Hungarians about Trianon is not that we have lost territories. It was obviously going to happen as most minorities wanted independence and Austria-Hungary lost WW1.
What bothers most Hungarians is that while principle of self-determination was touted as the reason for the break up of Hungary (fair), this very same principle was totally ignored by the Western powers when it came to Hungarians who were in total majority in certain areas in current day Slovakia or Romania, and all borders were drawn up based on military or economic purposes. Almost no referendums were allowed.
So yeah that's why even today many Hungarians are skeptical about the West.
True. If Hungary's post war borders were drawn just 30-50 kms closer to the Carpathians, we would have lost only half the number of Hungarians compared to how many we ended up losing
That's only half-true. The 1918-1920 period was marked by multiple general assemblies of minorities in Austria-Hungary where their elected representatives would express the aims of their people, such as the National Assembly of Romanians of Transylvania and Hungary on 1 December 1918 who decreed by unanimous vote "the unification of those Romanians and of all the territories inhabited by them with Romania", the National Assembly of Germans of Transylvania and Banat in 1919 who passed a declaration to support the decision to unite with the Kingdom of Romania, or the Slovak National Council's issue of the Martin Declaration in 1918, in effect declaring Slovakia's independence and presaging Slovakia's unification with the Czech lands as part of a new state. If there was a plebiscite, the result would have been largely the same given Hungary's previous magyarization policies.
Exactly.
Even back in the day, both Apponyi - whose laws, if you read them in Hungarian, stated that the CURRICULUM had to include the Hungarian language, not that all subjects had to be taught in Hungarian, which was still not exactly the most liberal approach but certainly less oppressive than either the French policy on the Breton and Corsican languages or the British attitude towards Welsh and Irish, which is ironic considering both of these empires were the exact ones responsible for the severity of the treaty - and Teleki knew that a lot of land will be lost, that is why they didn't even try to argue during the conference that Transylvania as a whole or the majority of Slovakia should stay within Hungary.
The hypocrisy of the Entente and the handwaving away of Hungarian concerns even after the Second World War poured a huge amount of fuel onto the fire of Hungarian irredentism. Beneš's lies about how many Hungarians there are in Southern Slovakia, Anghelescu's lies about the Lex Apponyi and Seton-Watson's rabid hatred of Hungarians made the Entente far more hostile towards Hungary than Hungary was towards either of the neighboring nations.
In fact, to add insult to injury, the Slovaks were screwed over hard by the Czech leadership as well, since Beneš and Masaryk signed the Cleveland agreement in 1915, stating that there would be a federation between Czechia and Slovakia only to backpedal on it and try to erase the Slovaks' own culture in the form of the "Czechoslovak" identity, which was basically just Czech at that point. The Entente did nothing despite adding a clause to the treaty of Trianon that was designed to protect minorities within the new borders, which is insulting to Hungarians for very obvious reasons but also to the Slovaks and Ruthenians - both of whom were fed lies by Beneš and were supposedly allies of the Entente.
Thus the entire treaty was - rightfully - seen as nothing else than geopolitical sadism. Turkey didn't receive anything close to this despite actively exterminating Armenians and the Greeks because they defended themselves, but Hungary couldn't so Hungary suffered in their stead.
The only person who asked the proper questions during the treaty was Lloyd George, who knew nothing about Hungary and still knew that Beneš and Seton-Wattson were hiding things. But he was silenced and the chance of a proper treaty - one that would punish Hungary fairly for its part in the war but also wouldn't alienate the populace to the point of fostering hostility - died when the British (not the French, contrary to popular belief) delegation refused to renegotiate at Lloyd George's behest.
Not true. The territories are the worst part. Of course it would be nice if at least the Hungarian populations could live in one country again, but the territory part is more important. The current Hungary is no longer a major power in Europe. I would rather have a non nationalistic kingdom again and live with Slovakians and Austrians together if we could restore Hungary in that way. The Carpathian basin should be ruled by one state - it is so obvious if anybody looks on a map.
@@catalinmarius3985 It was an assembly by Romanians for Romanians. Obviously they are going to agree. What the hell are you talking about?
My point was that in parts of current day Romania, Slovakia, Serbia ect. the same principles of self-determination were not applied for Hungarians. I bet if you gathered 100 000 Hungarians back then the same way they'd all want to stay in Hungary.
I'm a Hungarian so you can guess my opinion over it
But I don't see it ever change nor I want it to change now, since it would cause more harm than good
The borders are quite open, and minority laws are pretty good, so is the free market. So really the only thing that can bother us is the official status, names and who get the tax over that land. A hard but necessary pill to swallow. Especially since excessive nationalism is actually keeping Europe from a unification and a stronger economy.
It really is dumb to fight among us when the world got smaller and there are bigger fishes threatening us. I want Europe to be the dominant economic power and the peak example of democracy and modern free civilisation.
The Eu pretty much want to undermnoe our economic power so we have to bend the knee to america....
0:58 Just a little side note: after the incident in Sarajevo, Austria-Hungary was encouraged by the German Empire to declare war, because they finally had a cause to start a war against the Entente. It wasn't just the Habsburg's fault, the tensions between the great powers were already high at that point. Great video btw!
Lol it was the complete opposite. Germany had little to none intention going on a war with france or england. In fact they just beat france, retook their land Elsass which was ocuppied by the french opressor for several decades and just started having colonies abroad. Stupid WW1 stole germans golden century
Fun fact: Here in Hungary, you are legally obligated to cry every time someone mentions Trianon.
lol
What about Germans and the Treaty of Versailles?
@@josephsatricleofevillanuev3194Beer with a sausage in it?
Trianon 😎
it was far less harsh@@josephsatricleofevillanuev3194
This was actually a much better video than I expected! Big+ to you!
The thing is Slovaks and Hungarians were the two founding nationalities of the kingdom of Hungary from before nationalities meant anything at all, we were bound by our loyalty to the king, we are in fact two brotherly nations that went through a lot during our 1000 years of common history. We were hungarians because that meant that we were subjects of one king/ruler not denominating our nationality.
What lead our ancestors 100 years ago to trianon and separation is really just a culmination of romantistic ideas about nation states from (1848). Magyarisation is the reall problem, slovaks were down for a federation with separate senates and self rule, but not after "Apponyi laws" were implemented , meant to erase slovak heritage and culture.
apponyi fucked you guys over big time!
"Slovak" wasnt even a thing. It was a mixture of different slavic people. Poles, moravians, ruthenians, rusyns, etc.
🦅🦅🇸🇰🇸🇰🇸🇰PÔJDEME DO TANKOCH A ZROVNÁME BUDAPEŠŤ🇸🇰🇸🇰🇸🇰🦅🦅
@@empat8052Slovak was a distinct described language and culture since 11th century. Litteraly in written record.
Slovak itself was a mixture of the south Slavic peoples, namely coats and the Czech people (where Czech was the majority).
Akin to Slovenians..
The region of modern day Hungary used to have the Slovene culture which was the overarching culture between the two.
As a Slovak I also feel this way. Luckily, we are now like brothers with Czechia because of Czechoslovakia and I don't see that to change any time soon.
Trianon be like
Hungary: This tragedy will be remembered for centuries
Romania, Serbia, Czechia, Slovakia: Oh, what a day! What a lovely day!
Joking aside, as a Romanian, I am surprised Austria is causing us more problems than Hungary. What strange times we live in.
Yeah, uncommon Austrian W
@@justhair17 I have to give it to them, not many countries want to be vassals to Russia nowadays.
Yoo! its you again bro!
@@justhair17 , ah yes, being against migrants whilst also being the reason we even have that problem to begin with.
Putin's proxy
I like to think about the Fall of the Kingdom of Hungary and it's Breaking Into Three as the "greatest catasrophe" which we have still not recovered from, so Trianon is just a part of that not recovered state
czcams.com/video/0TrtY_r3sA0/video.htmlsi=jy8t1wN0N841SZ0Y
I'm currently playing CK3 with the Hungarian Arpad dynasty, the Treaty of Trianon cannot be possibly worse than the Mongols reaching Vienna.
Or the Huns reaching Gaul/France and creating Hungary, all great catastrophes for the Roman citizens, for the Slavs and even for the Germans.
@@GholaTleilaxu Hungary is not created by the Huns, it is you who call them "Hungarians", they are actually Magyars.
The thing is, when the Mongols came, they mostly destroyed villages and farmers. Cities and economy survived, so just had to rebuild the army.
Trianon on the other hand: Hungary lost a massive amount of troops in the war, many were wounded beyond ability to work. Then they basically took away every available resources: gold, silver, salt, coal, wood. With that most of the industry was stuck outside of the country or the Romanians stole it during the raid among almost all available railway engines and carriages. And after all of this reparation amounts were crazy huge which would have crippled even a normal economy. I think up until the '30s the reparations were lowered at least 4 times!
And this is where the country came back to 1940s when it was literally bombed to the ground, to be rebuilt as one of the best places to live in behind the Iron Curtain in the '80s then at the regime change in 1990 Hungary was considered by western economists to be the nation to achieve Western Life Standards the quickest from them... well, fml
@@humorpalanta in 1241? to lose 500k people¿ in the middle ages ? Hungary had to invite people so its economy could survive...
@@zoltan6451 And a few year after hungarians deciamted the mongols in 1285 in time of the second mongol invasion.... And the effects of trianon is still here
Great video! Thank you for making our history more accessible, and easier to understand for the world.
Very bad video. Thats really horrible, when soneone with such low knowledge as János, can explain anything about the hungarian history before such a big public. This is the dark side of CZcams, that Big Nobodys can teach about false things to the mob...
Me going to the comment section expecting a full out war betwen Hungary and Romania....and people here being just chill and mostly respecting each others ideas ...is really disapointing..
Come on Hungary...I know we visit and enjoy each others countries in the milions each year...and drink palinca togheter... but this is the internet...we have traditions..
Croatia was totally fair, barely any hungarians even lived there and it was already almost completely autonomous.
hungarians also have no drama w croatia
Thats true but the rest was just common thiefs
hahahahahaha wtf 1 mil just from Croatia.... More from Croatia than from Serbia, but that is because Seribans make some kind of selection, they expelled only 40 000 out of 400 000, mainly goverment officials.
Serbia have had an still have
1948: 433.701 - after ww2 numbers rise
1953: 441.907
1961: 449.587
1971: 430.314 - after easier passport aquisition numbers start to fall
1981: 390.468
1991: 343.800 - start of 90ties wars
2002: 293.299
2011: 253.899 - no more visa
2022: 184.442
I think we get why people were angry after losing two-third of their country, but giving (almost) the whole of Transylvania is what adds insult to injury. That was unreasonable without a doubt.
Most of the territories lost in Trianon had no Hungarian majority other than Székely.
Now, this is why I became a member of your channel, sir👍
I had no idea about how chaotic the years before the signing of the Treaty of Trianon had been. Guess I have to read more about it and the Balkans in the inter-war period. Great video!
I'm a Serb and I really have trouble of following all the events that had happened here in the past, there are so many migrations, conflicts etc. it blows my mind when I start thinking about it.
I traveled from Debrecen to Budapest and back just this weekend and without knowing the details of this history I noticed the massive difference in development between the two. In fact as my train went through various towns and cities I thought that many of the places I passed through seemed much more rural and underdeveloped than I had expected having only visited the capital before.
You can thank Orbán for that. Here in Romania it's the same for the most part, with everything revolving around Bucharest, except that our 2nd city Kolozsvár managed to place itself economically in a solid 2nd place after Bucharest (while being less crowded and with overall nicer people).
@@wyqtor it has nothing to do with Orbán, but rather with how the country developed ever since the late 18th-19th centuries. it was a centralized state with budapest in the center.
Just want to say, im not saying these things in a negative way, had a great time visiting Hungary and will be going back many more times in the future.
@@Baso-sama from where I am stood Orbán seems to at least care about his country. Unfortunately I can't say the same about Sunak...
@@wyqtor Not to knowledgeable about the fellas policies and all that. The disparity between Budapest and the rest of the country was hard not to notice though.
I absolutely love your videos, but at 0:48, Austria did not intend to annex Serbia, merely to humiliate it and force its cooperation in Austrian matters. Hungary only agreed to war on condition that not an inch of Serbian land be annexed, something which greatly annoyed the Austrian warmongers. This condition was actually the source of a great deal of confusion during the July Crisis and mobilisation period, and many Great Powers (especially Russia) assumed annexation was the goal, thus adding to the heightened tension. Thanks for the video 😊
I am Croat, my grandmother was Hungarian (Fekete), my grandfather (her husband) was German (Fritz), my other grandfather was Italian (Fortuna), grandmother was Croat. Other part of family are all Croatian, old Croatian. Our History (Austro-Hungarian empire) is very long, rich and full of wars. I live in Croatia, and don't like when somebody want to take any part of my country. History is history, we need to make future better. Like the video, very good.
you are an european.
Yugoslavia has joined the chat
Then you realize why we frown on you still holding onto OUR land north of the Drava? And even after we get the croat army to survive, regroup and nearly forcibly reequipped by us inside Hungary at the yugo war too! The gall! We dont give two damns about how croats or slavs or any old minorities want to do their own things until loyalty is assured! Our germans can do it, the jews can do it, the tiny barely existing cuman and Iazyg remnants can do it, hell even the gypsies are usually allowed to do whatever they want, but that land still belongs to the Holy Crown of Hungary so this wrong must be corrected! For these matters we have a bone to pick with even the poles! We have the eu and shit so its returning wont change much. Aside from removing an eyesore, any possible future comparsions along with serbs or vlachs and giving us a peace of mind that not all sinner involved in this should be punished by our curse! Witch had already taken quite a hold on the west! God have mercy on them because we will only give them the last unction! :D The shaman spoke.
getting beat up regularly for being Hungarian in one of the neighbouring countries is a must have childhood trauma for every Hungarian kid who's ancestors refused to move to anoter village after the Trianon treaty...
people are stupid, i'm romanian, but i don't agree with kids beeing bullied for such stupid and political things, there are plenty of other reasons to be bullied , but this is just abject discrimination, not ok
Kids bully other Kids for any reason they can find it has nothing real to do with your ethnicity
@@user-dv4zx1qi7nhow dare you try to ignore the discrimination against Hungarians. There will be justice
Mi magyarok adunk majd nektek… nem felejtunk, h mit tettetek es tesztek az erdelyi terstvereinkkel!
Magyarok istene bennunk el
@@J-IK So we're going to ignore hundreds of years of discrimination hungarians did before all this?
It's very hard to feel sorry for your people, you did this to yourself
A much needed film as Trianon shapes everything that has happened in Hungary in the last 100 years. Thanks a lot, Janos. Could you do something like this big introduction to Hungarian meme culture? For me as a Pole who still has big problems with language, this would be very cool. As proof of how much your knowledge of Hungarian culture has influenced my life, let me talk about the fact that my brother, after seeing the spinning Hungarian duck to "János Legyen" song featured in one of your materials at the beginning of that year, decided to go to Budapest even though we had not planned it at all beforehand. Viszlát!
Ι once asked an old magyar gentleman about Trianon. He said "No comment" and left
The USA and UK getting mad at Hungary for magyarization is the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard. I dont think langauges and culture should be forced on people but the western powers have BEEN doing that
Even if "shouldn't be forced" it minimum should be expectable from people living in a country to know the official language. Am i right or am i right?
grade A hungolian bs. They haven't been forcing it on anyone ! We've been partaking in it willingly ! cope harder bozgor ! & its well known by everyone living in these regions, you lot only want to push your uralic names and culture on everyone else. so cry me a river with your Trianon whining !
@@tovarishcheleonora8542not when your country is not even majority that ethnicity. And that’s why they don’t have it , and their insistence on it is why they’ll have even less in the future.
@@mirelchirila Let me guess, you're a delusional brainwashen romanian. Or just a not too educated child.
Because you clearly need to get some basic education.
Just check French africa….😂😂😂 ohh man i love when western countries want to play the good guy. Western countries are the most agressive, selfish opressors and they want to play that they are santa claus
As a hungarian this vid was hurted my soul
reading the comments, I'm pleasently suprised about how civilised everybody talks.
Great video, very well balanced.
I'm a hungarian who lives in Romania, and my view is in 2024 shouln't really matter where those lines between country's are drawn. We can work,live, have a family anywhere we like. We are more similar than sometimes we realise. We grown up in the same ex communist shithole, just the language was different.
Be kind to eachother, being mad about something you can't control and looking the big picture, doesn't even matter is just silly.
much love❤
As a Romanian, aside from the non-Hungarians majorities in lost territory, I also asked myself why Hungary was so hated by the Entente, arguably even more than Germany, one French general straight up insulted the Hungarian delegation when they arrived, turns out it was due to magyarization. They really treated their minorities poorly. Austria, who already wasn't famous for being liberal, was more liberal than Hungary.
List of quotes (only the first author is Romanian):
According to historian Dorin Stanescu, Hungarian bitterness following Trianon was bound to happen given Hungary's unrealistic expectation of keeping the status quo after losing a war.
""Hungary had hoped to maintain Greater Hungary, they hoped that all the regions of old Hungary would remain part of Hungary, but were not taking into account what the nationalities who lived inside Greater Hungary wanted. In Transylvania, where 54% of the population was Romanian, trying to maintain this region as part of Hungary was an utopia, for the president of the United States, Woodrow Wilson, came with his 14 points about the right of nationalities for self-determination, and the Romanians in Transylvania who were a majority, didn't want to be part of Hungary. Essentially, the Hungarian politicians hoped to keep the status quo but the historical reality, the debates during the peace conference and the arguments of the nationalities who wished to break free from Hungary, were the ones that mattered and eventually weighted decisively in favor of creating the eventual borders of Trianon.""
Historian Joseph Held further emphasizes the desire for self-determination of nationalities inside Hungary as one of the main reasons for the gravity of Trianon.
""The basic problem in Hungary was that less than half of the population were ethnically Hungarian. After the Ausgleich the Hungarians made at least one attempt to solve the cultural problem involved in the situation with the nationality law of 1868. The intent of this law was to arrange for a compromise between the non-Magyar nationalities and the Hungarians. The fact was, however, that the nationalities demanded more than cultural nationalism. They were in the process of establishing ties with their co-nationals - the Rumanians, Serbians, Czechs - living outside the monarchy or in the Austrian half, and were working for political independence. Moreover, the nationality law was seldom observed in Hungary; the rights of the nationalities were violated continuously by the Hungarian government. Their schools were closed and confiscated; their protests were suppressed by the police; their leaders were jailed for long periods of time. Hungarian propagandists spoke of a country of thirty million Hungarians, and of the sacred right of Hungary to “Magyarize” its nationalities.""
The treatment of minorities under the Kingdom of Hungary was one of the main causes for their desire to be separated from Hungary.
""Faced with the danger of national competition, the Magyar gentry dared not fulfil the provisions of the Nationalities Law of 1868; on the other hand, to make their work easier, they demanded a knowledge of Magyar from all the inhabitants of Hungary. No state school, elementary or secondary, was ever provided for any national minority; the secondary schools which the Slovaks had set up for themselves were closed in 1874; Magyar was made compulsory in all schools in 1883. The highest expression of this policy was the Education Law promoted by [Prime minister, Count] Apponyi in 1907, which imposed a special oath of loyalty on all teachers and made them liable to dismissal if their pupils did not know Magyar. Similarly, the Magyar gentry attacked any political display by the nationalities -drove their few members from parliament and condemned their organisations. By these means, the Magyar gentry gained and kept a monopoly of state employment and of the liberal professions. At the beginning of the twentieth century, 95% of the state officials, 92% of the county officials, 89% of the doctors, and 90% of the judges were Magyar. And 80% of the newspapers were in Magyar, and the remainder mostly German: 3.000.000 Roumanians had 2,5% of the newspapers, 2.000.000 Slovaks had 0,64%.""
Historian Gabor Vermes argues that although national sentiments have been sparked by the treatment of minorities by the Austrians and Hungarians, it was the political atmosphere that caused the partitions of Austria and Hungary.
""The Austro-Hungarian monarchy had been a conglomerate of various nations. From any logical and pragmatic point of view, some form of federalism should have been accomplished. However, the two ruling nations, the Germans in Austria and the Magyars in Hungary, clung stubbornly to the maintenance of “dualism” which was based on a joint rule of Germans and Magyars. The resentment of the other nations was boiling beneath the surface, and the monarchy’s defeat in World War I brought to the fore their bitterness, and by 1918, their wish to secede. Croats, Serbians, Slovaks, and Rumanians harbored a long list of grievances against the Magyars, and the chaotic conditions of 1918-disintegrating armies, fluctuating demarcation lines, ambiguous armistice terms-only intensified them. Above all, active Entente support played into their hands. It would be futile to argue the issues from a legal viewpoint, or even from an ideological viewpoint, because in 1918, the military and political atmosphere was charged with emotions, and conflict between the onetime rulers and onetime subjects was not to be solved in a rational and sensible way.""
Part2. According to professor Seamus Dunn, the Ausgleich of 1867 was seen by the minorities of Austria-Hungary as a cynical cooperation of the Austrians and Hungarians against said minorities, and one of the major causes for magyarisation was the Hungarians' insecurity over territories where they did not institute an ethnic majority, fearing that should they not magyarize them, the resentful minorities of Austria-Hungary would eventually "turn back the clock of history and expel the Magyars from their unlawfully seized real-estate back to the Asia from which they had swept in the 9th century".
""Nations other than the Austrians and Hungarians regarded the Ausgleich of 1867 as a cynical deal struck between the two state-nations of the ‘Dual Monarchy’ (together comprising some 43% of the total state population) for the joint suppression of the remainder of the multi-national populace. Within Hungary, early promises to respect the rights of the non-Magyar 58.8% of the population (in 1880), notably by a Nationalities Law in 1868, were soon abandoned in favour of a sustained programme of magyarisation. In a spirit of ‘we have re-made Hungary, now we must re-make Hungarians’, the Hungarian language was foisted on the non-Magyar majority through advancing state control of the school and university systems. Non-Magyar representation in the Hungarian Diet at Budapest was filtered at parliamentary elections to derisory and tokenistic levels. Demographically a mini-empire in which the Magyars could never even (quite) muster a majority, Hungary claimed the Magyarsag or ‘Magyar-land’ as a Hungarian nation-state. It is important to consider why the Hungarians should adopt magyarisation with such relish. Neither the spirit nor the policy of magyarisation was born in the 1880s: Hungarian contempt for the smaller nationalities unfortunate enough to find themselves within Hungarian jurisdiction had been legendary for centuries and had contributed to the isolation and subsequent defeat of the Hungarian national cause in 1849. Fundamentally, the historical career of the Hungarian people predisposed them psychologically towards what might be tritely called ‘insecurity-based aggression’. A pervasive sense of racial and linguistic isolation combined with a conviction that their resentful Germanic, Slavonic and even Latin neighbours were waiting for an opportunity to turn back the clock of history and expel the Magyars from their unlawfully seized real-estate back to the Asia from which they had swept in the 9th century. Indeed, the whole history of the Hungarians could be seen as a sequence of traumatic oscillation between possession, dispossession and repossession, most recently over the 1848-1867 period. A collective, almost genetically imprinted sense of insecurity pre-determined a pathological siege mentality which supported the magyarisation to which the supremacist establishment of Hungary committed itself from the 1880s.""
In response to the arguments of the harsh treatment that the defeated Hungary was imposed by the terms of Trianon Treaty, British historian Alexander Watson argues that the victory plans of Germany and Austria-Hungary in the spring of 1917, when they were still confident of defeating the Entente, were much harsher than the Treaty of Trianon.
""On 23 April 1917 a meeting between Hindenburg and Ludendorff, the Chancellor, the Foreign Secretary, Arthur Zimmermann, and the Head of the Political Section of the Government General in Belgium was convened at Kreuznach, in the Rhineland, to discuss war aims. The Oberste Heeresleitung, confident at this time that the U-boat campaign would bring Britain to her knees ‘in at latest 2-3 months’, forced through its conception of a peace of extensive conquest. In the west, (...) the valuable French mining region of Longwy-Briey was to be won for the Reich. (...) Belgium was to remain ‘in German military control until it is politically and economically ready for a defensive and offensive alliance with Germany’. Liège and the Flemish coast were to be either permanently occupied or held on a ninety-nine-year lease (...). Belgium was to lose its south-east corner to the Reich, Luxembourg would become a German federal state. (...) In the east, Germany was to acquire Courland and Lithuania, Hindenburg and Ludendorff’s own military colony. Buffer zones were to be carved out of the newly established Poland to protect key German territories, most notably heavily industrialized German Silesia. German oil interests in Romania were also to be secured. Austria-Hungary was to be handed parts of Serbia, Montenegro and Albania, as well as territory in Romania’s western Walachia.(...) At a meeting on 17 and 18 May 1917, Count Ottokar Czernin, ambassador of Austria-Hungary in Romania, not only received a German guarantee of the Habsburg Empire’s integrity but also, in exchange for giving over Poland after the war, acquired rights to Romania and a sphere of influence in the Balkans.""
According to historian Peter Pastor, based on the study of Hungarian historian Gabor Vermes in his work "Hungarian politics and society on the eve of the revolution", one of the leading causes of magyarization and therefore the resentment of minorities in the Kingdom of Hungary, was the Hungarian belief in their own cultural, social, economic and political supremacy over the non-Hungarians leading to their treatment as de facto second-class citizens.
""The governing ethos of dualist Hungary was a belief in Magyar supremacy and Hungary's territorial integrity. Most politically conscious Hungarians accepted these as axioms, as the absolute and non-negotiable guarantees of national existence in the face of a perceived Slav and Romanian threat. Magyar domination, in this view, was justified both by history, the Magyars having been the only nation in the Danube basin capable of forming a state that had lasted over 1.000 years, and by their superior economic, social, and political power, as well as by their culture. A liberal constitution was to provide full legal equality to Magyars and non-Magyars alike, prompting the latter to discharge their obligation of loyal citizenship to a unitary Hungarian national state. Oppressive Magyar domination was inexcusable, both on pragmatic and moral grounds, for a small minority of Hungarians. They considered it both foolish and unjust to keep the non-Magyar half of Hungary's population reduced to a de facto second-class citizenship. They believed that a full extension of democratic political rights and social justice, initiated by Hungarian Radical and Socialists leaders, would enable them to act as the benevolent dispensers: of progress to all citizens of a rejuvenated country. However, not even this group envisaged the breakup of Great Hungary or the renunciation of Magyar leadership.""
Part3. According to profressor Steven Beller in 2018, the Hungarian attempts to magyarize the Romanians of Transylvania and constant refusal to grant them the same rights as the Hungarians backfired and led to the acceleration of the Romanian national consciousness as well as an increase in the Romanian antagonism against the Hungarians.
""The effort by Magyar nationalists to make Transylvania a Magyar-speaking state had the effect of sparking Romanian national solidarity, much as the similar attempt in Croatia had sparked Croatian nationalism. Despite Romanian speakers comprising a majority of the population, Transylvania’s Diet had representation for only 3 official constitutional nations: Magyars, Saxons and Seklers (a group closely related to Magyars), and none for Romanians. When the Diet was recalled for the first time in 23 years in 1834, the Uniate and Orthodox bishops, traditional leaders of the Romanian communities, petitioned for recognition of the Romanians as a 4th nation, but it was rejected, and again in 1837 and 1841. Instead, in January 1842, the Diet passed a language lawmaking Magyar the official language of the land, including provisions to make it the language of instruction in the Uniate and Orthodox seminaries. Partly as a result of the threat of Romanian unrest, the emperor never gave the law sanction, but the net effect was to boost antagonism between the Magyar elite and a newly conscious Romanian nationality.""
Historian Raymond Pearson describes in his work "Hungary. A state truncated, a nation dismembered" that Hungary's harsh treatment at Trianon was mainly caused by 3 factors. The first factor was magyarization, which alienated all non-Hungarians in Greater Hungary with their attempt of forced assimilation, Raymond Pearson arguing that the Hungarian regime was ethnocidal but not genocidal. This attempt of forced cultural assimilation backfired and accelerated the developing of national consciousness for the Slovaks, Romanians, Serbs and Croats living in Hungary. The second factor was the Hungarian attempt to break free from Austria-Hungary, a sentiment which increased with time as Austria became more liberal while Hungary became more repressive. The third factor was the international bad press of Hungary caused by magyarisation, non-Hungarians fleeing Hungary in great numbers profoundly influenced the western attitudes towards Hungary. When compared to the fascist regimes in the interwar and during World War II, Hungary's actions don't seem deserving of censure or condemnation, but in the world prior to fascism still unaccustomed to extreme nationalism, Hungary's magyarisation was perceived as an aberration bringing disgrace upon the wider nationalist cause, attracting the worst advertisement for nationalism and, significantly for the immediate future, alienated Western government and society opinion. At the end of World War I, in order to limit its bad image, Hungary attempted to dissociate itself from Austria and sign a separate peace with the Allies on the basis of Woodrow Wilson’s 14th points. Aware of its bad reputation earned by pre-war magyarisation, Károlyi attempted to impress the Allies favourably by announcing a new Hungarian federation, an ‘eastern Switzerland’ which would respect the rights of all non-Magyars in the population. However, the Allies were determined to favor the nations and states which fought on the side of the Allies, already being suspicious of the last minute Hungarian conversion to liberal federalism given its oppressive past, the Allies were further shocked by the desertion of Hungary to bolshevism. Following the defeat of Hungarian communism, nothing in Hungary’s past or current behavior won any friends at the Paris Peace Conference, instead confirming and reinforcing Allied commitment to the punitive Treaty of Trianon. Considering the argument of Hungary's harsh treatment at Trianon, given the circumstances it was not impossible that Hungary could have been liquidated as a political entity and partitioned among its neighbours like 19th century Poland, however, such a move would undermine all credibility in the Paris Peace Settlement. Romania was encouraged by the Allies to press into the heart of Hungary to topple the Hungarian Socialist Republic, inflicting the ultimate humiliation of the foreign occupation of the capital Budapest in August 1919, but once Hungary was firmly defeated, Romania was ordered by the Allies to withdraw to the new frontier in November 1919. For all its manifest damage to Hungary, the Treaty of Trianon still did not represent the worst-case scenario.
""As the 20th century dawned, magyarisation generated three linked but distinct repercussions, all fateful for the long-term future of Hungary. The first was, predictably enough, the irrevocable alienation of all nationalities within Hungary unprepared to accept enforced Hungarian assimilation. Many Jews, some Germans and a few Slovaks were prepared to countenance acculturation, if not assimilation, by accommodating themselves to a regime which may have been ethnocidal but was never genocidal towards non-Magyars; but magyarisation generally forced on the pace of developing national consciousness and later stimulated growing ambition for political separatism among the majority of non-Magyar nationalities.
The second repercussion was that the accelerating progression towards secessionist ambition within Hungary did not exclude the Magyars themselves. Heralded by exultant celebrations of the millenium of the Hungarian state in 1896, an anti-Habsburg movement demanding a Hungarian national army fomented a political crisis over 1905-1906. In the event, a combination of direct military rule and the threat of the imposition of universal suffrage upon Hungary quickly brought the Magyar political establishment to heel. Even so, a Hungarian consensus for mere autonomy could no longer be assumed after 1906: although Hungarian official and public opinion still tacitly supported the Ausgleich, the trend was towards entertaining aspirations for independence which could not be contained within the prevailing Dual Monarchy. As ‘Vienna’ became more liberal and ‘Western European’ while ‘Budapest’ became more repressive and ‘Eastern European’, an eventual split of the polarizing, increasingly schizophrenic Dual Monarchy into separate sovereign states of Austria and Hungary seemed inescapable.
The third effect of magyarisation was the international bad press visited upon Hungary. The mass emigration of non-Magyars fleeing magyarisation reached epic levels in the run-up to 1914, profoundly influencing attitudes towards Hungary in the emigrant destinations of the West. When compared with later manifestations of ‘integral nationalism’ in inter-war eastern Europe, magyarisation does not appear exceptionally reprehensible (and in its non-racial rationale and practice may even be deemed tame); but in a world still unaccustomed to the abrupt transition from emancipatory ‘Risorgimento nationalism’ to repressive ‘integral nationalism’ often occasioned by the acquisition of state power, magyarisation was perceived as a peculiarly Hungarian aberration bringing disgrace upon the wider nationalist cause. Hungary’s high-profile conduct in the heart of Europe attracted opprobrium as the worst advertisement for nationalism and, significantly for the immediate future, alienated Western government and society opinion.
Part4. (continues the quote from above) In a desperate bid at damage limitation, Hungary attempted to dissociate itself from the Habsburg establishment which bore primary responsibility for both the detonation and conduct of the Great War. In October 1918, a ‘Chrysanthemum Revolution’ belatedly brought to power in Budapest a Hungarian National Council, headed by Count Mihály Károlyi and committed to a separate peace with the Allies on the basis of Woodrow Wilson’s celebrated ‘Fourteen Points’. Uncomfortably aware of the unenviable international reputation earned by pre-war magyarisation, Károlyi attempted to impress the Allies favourably by announcing a new Hungarian federation, an ‘eastern Switzerland’ which would (under a programme administered by the newly appointed minister of nationalities, the liberal Oszkár Jászi) respect the rights of all non-Magyars in the population. The following month, Károlyi salvaged what he could from the final shipwreck of Austria-Hungary by proclaiming an independent liberal republic of Hungary. Despite the best efforts of the Károlyi government, Hungary was to suffer the Treaty of Trianon, the second most territorially punitive of the five component treaties of the Paris Peace Settlement.
The victorious Powers were determined to favour those nations and states which had committed themselves (with or without military success) to the Allied side and to license substantial successor-states to prevent the balkanisation of eastern Europe. If Czechoslovakia, Romania and the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes were to be economically and especially militarily viable, their territorial aggrandisement had to be at somebody’s expense-and defeated and discredited Austria and Hungary were the inevitable victims. Profoundly suspicious of the last minute Hungarian conversion to liberal federalism announced by the Károlyi government, the Allies were then shocked by the apparent desertion of Hungary to bolshevism. From March to August 1919, a crucial period in Allied deliberations over the fate of Hungary, a Hungarian Socialist Republic led by Béla Kun, inspired by an unstable blend of Leninist fanaticism and traditional patriotism, embodied the West’s greatest nightmare of Communist penetration of central Europe. Nothing in Hungary’s past or current record won any friends at the Paris Peace Conference, instead confirming and reinforcing Allied commitment to the punitive Treaty of Trianon.
So calamitous was the Treaty of Trianon that the question of whether Hungary could have been treated worse has rarely been addressed. It was not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that Hungary might have been liquidated as a political entity and partitioned among its neighbours, replicating the fate of nineteenth-century Poland. The fact that Hungary was territorially truncated, not completely partitioned in 1920 bears witness to the Allies’ appreciation that further reduction would have undermined all credibility in the Paris Peace Settlement’s avowed prime principle of national self-determination. Romania was certainly encouraged to press into the heart of Hungary to topple the Kun regime, inflicting the ultimate humiliation of the foreign occupation of the capital Budapest in August 1919; but once Hungary had been brought firmly to heel, Romania was compelled to withdraw to the Allied-determined new frontier in November 1919. For all its manifest damage to Hungary, the Treaty of Trianon still did not represent the worst-case scenario.""
Sources:
- Florin Critescu, Dorin Stanescu, Oral History Archive, The Treaty of Trianon, 2021
- Joseph Held, "The Heritage of the Past: Hungary before World War I", in Ivan Volgyes (editor), "HUNGARY IN REVOLUTION. 1918-19. Nine Essays", University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 1971, pages 6-7.
- A. J. P. Taylor, "The Habsburg Monarchy, 1809-1918 : A History of the Austrian Empire and Austria-Hungary", Hamish Hamilton, London, 1948, page 186.
- Gabor Vermes, "The October Revolution in Hungary: from Karolyi to Kun", in Ivan Volgyes (editor), "Hungary in Revolution. 1918-19. Nine Essays", Univ. of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 1971, page 47.
- Europe and Ethnicity. The First World War and contemporary ethnic conflict; Seamus Dunn and T.G.Fraser, Routledge, London&New York, 1996, pages 88-89:
- Ring of Steel: Germany and Austria-Hungary in World War I (Basic Books, New York, 2014), Alexander Watson. p.484-489
- Peter Pastor, Revolutions and interventions in Hungary and its neighboring states, 1918-1919 (Columbia University Press, New York, 1988)
- Steven Beller, The Habsburg Monarchy 1815-1918 , Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 2018, page 62
- Raymond Pearson, Seamus Dunn, T.G.Fraser, Hungary. A state truncated, a nation dismembered, Routledge, London&New York, 1996, pages 89-93.
Part5. More on Magyarization specifically:
Geoffrey Wawro, born in 1960, is an American Professor of Military History at the University of North Texas, and Director of the UNT Military History Center. His primary area of emphasis is modern and contemporary military history, from the French Revolution to the present. After receiving his bachelor's degree magna cum laude from Brown University (1983), he attended Yale University, where he received his Master of Arts in European history (1987), his M. Phil. in European History in 1989, and his Ph.D. in 1992. His dissertation, entitled "The Austro-Prussian War: Politics, Strategy and War in the Habsburg Monarchy, 1859-1866" (1992), supervised by Paul Kennedy, argued that the battle of Königgrätz (1866) was not so much won by the brilliance of the Prussian commander Helmuth von Moltke the Elder as it was lost by the incompetence of the Austrian commander Ludwig von Benedek. He hosted the History Channel's book show Hardcover History, and was host and anchor of the History Channel programs History's Business and History vs. Hollywood, Hard Target, Global View, and History in Focus. His guests have included Jimmy Carter, Henry Kissinger, (...) Warren Christopher, Niall Ferguson, Stephen Ambrose, Michael Howard, Robert Dallek, Paul Theroux and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.. Wawro, an expert on military innovation and international security in Europe, the U.S., and Canada, was also (before his move to Texas) Professor of Strategic Studies at the U.S. Naval War College. He won the Austrian Cultural Institute Prize and the Society for Military History Moncado Prize for Excellence in the Writing of Military History. From 1989 to 1991, he was Fulbright Scholar at University of Vienna, Austria, and from 1991 to 1992, an Andrew W. Mellon Doctoral Fellow at Yale University. According to him:
""These Hungarians, who had arrived from Central Asia in the ninth century, were a unique racial islet, speaking a unique language, Magyar. Their existence was defined by fear: the fear of being mastered by the Germans or swallowed up by the Slavs. This gave the Hungarians a bullying spirit, a determination to “Magyarize” everyone around them in order to augment their own small numbers and nip ethnic competition in the bud. The most immediately affected were the Rumanians of Austria. With 3.000.000 strong, 6% of the imperial population, they lived cheek by jowl with the Hungarians in the Carpathian basin and were under constant pressure to give up their language and culture and speak Magyar instead. (...) On paper, at least, the creation of Austria-Hungary from Austria contained a certain logic. The Hungarians would no longer seek to secede from the monarchy and would put their Hunnish talents to work repressing any who would. The division of the empire into a German-run “Cisleithania” and a Hungarian-run “Transleithania” (...) superficially simplified the monarchy’s nationality problems by subcontracting the eastern ones to the Hungarians so that the German Austrians could focus on the western ones in a system of “dualism.” But whereas the German Austrians had a relatively soft touch, officiousness tempered by irresolution, the Hungarians were officious, hardnosed, and resolute. After the 1867 Ausgleich or compromise, which created Austria-Hungary, they pressed ahead with a hard campaign of “Magyarization.” Their saucepan of the nations had a single flavor: paprika. Whereas the Germans viewed the “people of state” label as license merely to patronize Cisleithania’s Slavs by requiring them to interact with Habsburg officialdom in the German language, the Hungarians viewed theirs as license to abolish Transleithania’s other nationalities: Slavs and Rumanians would be “de-nationalized” by prohibitions on their churches, schools, languages, and cultures. (...) A French visitor to Austria-Hungary in 1902 observed that everything was “dualist” in the empire, including the banknotes. One side of an Austro-Hungarian crown note was Austrian, with the denomination spelled out in German as well as the eight other languages of Cisleithania: Polish, Italian, Czech, Serbian, Croatian, Slovenian, Rumanian, and Ukrainian. The flip side of the note was Hungarian, with the denomination spelled out in Magyar alone. “Astonishing,” the French visitor commented; “for official Hungary, the nationalities here do not even exist.” Such ethnic arrogance naturally commanded nothing more than a sullen obedience. “Faced with this internal campaign of national annihilation, non-Hungarians here are reduced to silence and immobility, even though they are the majority!” the Frenchman concluded. (...) Having declared in 1867 that “the Slavs are not fit to govern; they must be ruled,” Hungarian prime minister Gyula Andrássy and each of his successors until 1918 enforced that rule with a hard hand. By the 1880s, millions of Austro-Hungarians were emigrating to America. Those who remained looked beyond Austria-Hungary for rescue-the Slavs to Russia or Serbia, the Rumanians to Rumania. (...) The dominant Magyars stamped out every effort by the Rumanians and other subject nationalities to speak their own languages in school or public offices as “contradicting the cardinal principles of Hungarian national policy.” The more chauvinistic among the Magyars, such as Count Albert Apponyi, spoke proudly of a cultural policy of colonization.""
Part6 and final. Considering the first law of minorities in Europe, Emil Niederhauser writes that:
""During the last few days of the 1848 revolution, in face of the Russian intervention on the side of Austria, the Hungarian Parliament voted an act acknowledging the rights of non-Magyars to use their own language only on local and minor administrative levels and for the right of maintaining their own schools. True, this was the first nationality act in Europe, but two weeks before the capitulation of the Hungarian army, it did not seem too convincing.""
According to Edward Crankshaw:
""Magyar politicians steadfastly blocked all subsequent attempts on the part of Franz Josef to achieve a working federation of south-eastern European peoples. Franz Josef could have defeated the Germanizers, and frequently did; but he could not defeat the unholy alliance of Germanizers and Magyarizers: hence Sarajevo. Ironically, the one Austro-Hungarian statesman to protest against Vienna's fatal reaction to Sarajevo was the Hungarian Prime Minister, Stephen Tisza, who saw in a war with Serbia a deadly threat to the Magyar position. But it was he and his predecessors who had brought Sarajevo about. Instead of seeing that the only hope for Hungary lay in her role as a vital part of a grand federation of peoples, they went to all possible lengths, over decades, to ensure that there would be only two peoples, the Magyars and the Germans - and the Germans only because they were too strong to be defeated. As an example, when the Monarchy went down there was still no railway between Vienna and Zagreb or Vienna and Dalmatia: the Magyars would not allow such an intimate connection between the King-Emperor and a part of his realm that came under the administration of Budapest: all rail communications had to be routed through the Hungarian capital. Emperor Franz Josef was King in Hungary, but in 1867 he had abdicated his authority, except in the matter of the army and foreign policy. Hungary under the premiership of Kolomon Tisza was not a model of enlightenment to show up the black reaction of the Hofburg. It was the other way round. Franz Josef's authoritarianism in the Cisleithanian lands was all sweetness and light compared with the rule of the Magyar Parliament. (...) There was a great deal of talk about the prison-house of nations governed from Vienna, and when it came to the showdown in 1918 this phrase stuck and had much influence on the decision of the Western Powers to dismember the Empire. But, in fact, since 1859, the only part of the Monarchy which could reasonably be called a Volkerkerker was Hungary, ruled by chauvinist politicians in Vienna's despite. Even Galicia, where Franz Josef allowed far too free a hand to the Polish aristocrats in return for their loyalty to the Crown, by no means qualified as a prison in this sense. Hungary, however, was a special case. Every individual of whatever nationality who was prepared to learn Magyar and embrace the Magyar cause was welcomed within the magic circle and absorbed by it. This was the secret of Hungarian strength; for in this way gifted individuals of comparatively backward nationalities could rise to the top. They often became more Magyar than the Magyars. Kossuth, a Slovak, was a case in point. The great poet Petofi, also a Slovak, was another. What was forbidden was the cultivation of national consciousness, of national political life among the minority races of Hungary. A Croat could be a good Magyar; but if he wanted to be a good Croat he was proscribed. This invited that growing irredentism which made nonsense of Magyar pretensions and was to be one of the chief causes of the downfall of the Monarchy. How exalted these pretensions had become may be seen in these words spoken in 1897 by the son of Andrassy, now a politician in his own right: 'The power balance of the Monarchy makes it inevitable, and its interests make it desirable, that in political matters we, the Magyars, play the leading role. We form a unified State of great antiquity. Austria is a mosaic of nationalities and provinces without an inner unity.' Andrassy junior did not add that the 'unified' State of Hungary was based on a rejection by Budapest of the national rights of many subject-peoples; that the lack of 'inner unity' in Cisleithania was due to the refusal of Franz Josef to employ Hungarian methods. Nor did he add that the astonishingly swift transformation of Hungary's material existence was due to economic advantages gained from the Compromise; or that the relative strength of the Magyar population was partly due to the mass emigration of countless Slovaks, Croats, and Transylvanian Roumanians.""
According to Myra A. Waterbury and Palgrave Macmillan:
""The dual monarchy of 1867 marked the beginning of a modern Hungarian state, but the Magyar nationalism that drove the movement for independence ran up against the reality that ethnic Magyars were not a majority of the population in the territory of Hungary. In 1867, minorities were 53.4% of the population. The liberal nationalist thought of 1848, which had envisioned an enlightened Magyar-dominated state that granted equal rights to all ethnic and linguistic minorities, was soon replaced by a more exclusionary and chauvinistic form of Hungarian nationalism. Once Hungarian independence had been more or less achieved through the dual monarchy, this was seen as the legitimization of Magyar nationalism and its goals of elevating Hungarian language and culture as the national standard. Hungarian chauvinists now expected and demanded Magyarization from the subject nationalities, based on the “supposed superiority of the Magyar culture.” The empowerment of minority cultures was seen as a threat to the newly acquired unified political control of the Magyar elite. While the Nationalities Law of 1868 paid lip service to the country’s multiethnic character, the new Hungary was to be a “single political nation; the indivisible Hungarian nation (...) and country’s official language Hungarian”. In 1875, the government of Prime Minister Tisza intensified the program of forced Magyarization, closing Slovak and Romanian-language schools and limiting minority cultural activities. This disrupted the previous trend of voluntary Magyarization, causing the rate of assimilation to slow greatly after 1850 to only 9 percent. Not surprisingly, this form of Magyar nationalism also spawned counternationalisms among the other minority groups. Even the more liberal nationalism of 1848 spurred some national minority groups to fight on the side of the Austrians, calculating that their chances of autonomy would be better met in a large, multiethnic empire rather than in a more independent Hungary. In the decades following the 1867 compromise, minority elites, forced to choose between assimilation or exclusion, turned to their own indigenous nationalist groups or sent their children away for mother-tongue instruction and training as the new generation of minority nationalists that would fight for independence against the dominance of the Hungarian state.""
Sources:
- A Mad Catastrophe. The Outbreak Of World War I And The Collapse Of The Habsburg Empire", Geoffrey Wawro,Basic Books, New York, 2014, pages: 26, 27, 36, 49
- "The national question in Hungary", in Mikulas Teichand Roy Porter, The National Question in Europe, in Historical Context, Cambridge Univ. Press, 1998, pp. 255-56:
- The Fall of the House of Habsburg, Edward Crankshaw, Viking Press, New York, 1963, pages 298-299
- Between State and Nation Diaspora - Politics and Kin-state Nationalism in Hungary by Myra A. Waterbury, Palgrave Macmillan, New York, 2010, page 29
Just doing my part with the essays.
i never clicked on a video this fast in my life
HAHAHHAHA
@Pisii-chan Why are you called piss?
@@Medvelelet because im not magyar
@@Pisii-chan Its a funny username. Pisi is how kids say piss
@@Medvelelet and how do adults say it?
Despite being a Hungarian, I'm not so heavily invested in this topic which, I'm sure, will provide some neet backlash. All those territories had the main source of income and connected by the most common mode of transportation service. Cutting those off dealt a serious blow to the industry, nearly nullifying the economy, putting the country in shambles.
Even though it happened a century ago some people still jumping at eachother's throat for the reason being the catastrophe. I find it amusing, terrifying and hilarious at the same time. People shouldn't hate some neighbouring stranger for something that happened 100 years ago, while neither of them were a part of it. Not coming to good terms is acceptable but treating eachother as trash over this is just ridiculous, waste of energy and time. Focusing on how is the other like as a person and not judging by their origins is a great start, I believe.
Thank you, I’ve heard of Trianon but never knew much about it, this definetly shed some light on it, very enlightening.
That really horrible, when soneone with such low knowledge as János, can explain anything about the hungarian history before such a big public. This is the dark side of CZcams, that Big Nobodys can teach about false things to the mob...
@@kevhynaleks2631 I don’t take his word as the definitive word, and if curious enough, I can do my research, what he did do is bring awareness to the issue, that this is something that is still part of the Hungarian public discourse.
If he made any factual errors or misleading comments, i would be curious if you could correct him/tell your side of the story.
I found your video surprisingly balanced, despite its obious shortness and the clickbait title 😁. Chapeau.
As a young boy and later teenager, I was brought up/educated with a very nationalistic approach. Part of this came via the party/state sponsored channel in school, propaganda and what not. Part of the nationalism trickled down from my great grandmother. She inherited the trauma from her parents - if I recall, she was born in the now county of Bistrița in northern Transilvania. She didn't speak much of it, or I was too young to remember, but I have vague memories of her telling me the life was so tough at the turn of the 20th century for ethnic Romanians in Austria Hungary, that they (her family) had to cross the border to the Kingdom of Romania (Regat) and settle here.
30 years ago - don't get me strated, my blood would boil just having somebaody mentioning revisionism - Now, as I grow old(er)😅 I find other priorities in life than clinging to collective memory historical debts. Or flying into a rage to prove a highly subjective point. Peace and health are the best things we can have that can enable us to fulfill our objectives in life.
Let the debate begin😂
I'm a hungarian but half of my family lives in transylvinia. Y'know how much racism and oppresion my mom got growing up? Y'know how much history was lost bc romanians destroyed them? Y'know how hard it is to only see your family once or twice a year while having the worst trip of your life bc theres no clear train track into the country? I had a childhood friend who was romanian and spoke hungarian, imagine my shock when he became a hungary hater and told me how in the perfect world romania would be 2 times bigger even reaching Budapest the capital of hungary. Both the school system and when there was communism hungarians were very limited many my age highschoolers want to go to hungary and go to college and uni here heck even my mom kinda ran away from family and romania altogether.
Not saying revisiniosm would solve anything but laws protecting both sides would help alot for the ppl living there. But goverments just don't care
@@Vickyshoka Mate you can enter the country using your id like in the rest of EU no one is limiting you . And FUN FACT train lines are shit all over the country is not Romanians cutting access to Hungary.... its just Romanians being idiots and not investing in infrastructure nation wide.
And if you want to attend school and uni teached in Hungarian...well guess where is better to do that.... in Hungary. Its like a German complaining he does not have access to top German schools and university's in Romania..... well duh.
@@Vickyshoka hungarian = live in Hungary, romanian = live in Romania, hungarian does not equal live in romania same as a romanian does not live in Hungary.
Pov of average Austro-Hungarian young family: lets move to the most eastern side of transylvania and then then be persecuted by native people because my people persecuted the living hell out of those native people in the past. If you plant carrots dont expect potatoes the same as if you persecute somebody because they are literally living dont expect something else in return.
What about the title is clickbait? Did you watch a different video?
9:59
Obligated to learn another language so you can live a normal life.
Actually 1,7 million pop is just Budapest city proper, the whole metro area is like 3,3 million at this point.
The austrians ended the Habsburg Empire in 1867 when they gave majority slavic Slovakia, Transcarpathia, Croatia and majority romanian Transylvania to Hungary. Nobody accepted to be ruled by the hungarians. And to the break up began...
Thanks for making this video!
the first part is so relatable bro! every hugarian ive EVER talked to was like that
It's also been an economic disaster for Hungaries neighbours, except the Czech who got the majority of Austrias industries. The interconnected economies were now split into many, many borders. All their economies were and still are garbage in comparison to what they had before that.
I want to argue with this one as a hungarian historian. The Hungarian economy after the great war, the red terror and after Romanian occupation, Hungary was disaster after that, but in fact, they stand up really quick, more faster than Czhezkoslovakia or Romania. The Hungarians and Czech shortly made trade agreements between the 2 country, also Hungary main economy is based on the agrarian sector and also the main indrustial lands was stay inside the borders, yet the lands km2 was much more lower than the average population density. Basically hungarians have a lots of people, yet they much low landscape, meanwhile the other countries have less people, yet much more land. The Hungarian economy is basically fully recover around 1924 meanwhile the little entente country struggle even the 40's.
@@danielmajor2766 nah the economy was rubbish
What do you mean worse than at the beginning of 20th century, that's factually not true and you can check it by GDP.
The romanians also stole several trains and every piece of industrial equipment they could put their hands on. Lmao
@@danielmajor2766 first of all fix your english before you want to debate this in english. secondly, how is the consolidation period a counterargument to anything the original comment said? it just means that DESPITE how fucked everything was, the consolidation under Bethlen was successful. it was a miracle it even happened, not the logical conclusion of the tragedy beforehand.
Great Video, thank you for spreading this. 😊
My family from Harghita … our old name = Maroshevizi … my grandfather came to USA 1926 … married Polish woman and settled in Gary Indiana … I have 6 uncles and 5 aunts … now I live in Cambodia Kingdom
Greetings from the border of Hargita and Maros! :)
a small correction: the Apponyi laws did not result in closing all ethnic schools, it resulted in closing >>state funded ethnic schools. kind of a big difference. it was still quite a harsh law, but i wonder how many other countries at the time funded schools where the state language was not taught at all.
edit: there was a typo
In that time and even today most if not all schools but just a few foreign schools are state schools. 😅
@@purple66666 there were plenty private schools left, and those schools which complied with the requirement and started teaching hungarian continued receiving the funding. now show me which of the successor states fund minority schools where the state language is not taught at all today.
@@Baso-sama what is the point of school, that dont teach 'state language' ? How are students supposed to live in that country without knowing official language? Its a massive disadvantage for them...
@@TheDigimarauder exactly my point. you should ask this question from those who bring up lex apponyi as a proof of evil magyarization. especially since we talk about state sponsored schools, not private schools. the one harsh thing about lex apponyi was the short notice time. i think they should've given more time for these schools to train and/or hire teachers who can teach hungarian.
@@Baso-sama In Slovakia, there is even a hungarian university funded by the štáte, not talking about hundreds od schools and kindergartens....
WOW János you did a really good job covering the topic. My opinion is that altough people say time heals all wounds, it will not heal this one. Trianon was such a blowback in our economy and moral in general that we feel its aftermath even today. Losing a shit ton of natural resources, big part of our population, our influence in the region. I Understand the other side too: magyarization was not the right answer to the "we need more magyars" problem, and we needed to be put in place for it, but the punishment was too big, and I still dont know why even Austria got land from us?!?!? Hungary will never forget Trianon.
Austria got Burgenland (Örvidék) to keep hungarian border ~80 km away from Vienna, means it was an austrian national security request which has been agreed by the winner powers. So when Russia has national security concerns I dont know why one has no understanding for it.
@@palucci888 i didnt understamd since Austria was also on the losing side and frankly had way more to do with the war than Hungary. Now tgat you explain it makes sense why they wanted it, but the part where the winners actually listened to their request and not Hungarys makes no sense.
Because Burgenland was majority German speaking.
@@palucci888 Russia will always have "national security concerns", even if it annexes the whole of Europe and the whole of Asia.
@@duwang8499 Well if that was an actual factor the winners considered Hungary wouldnt have lost a big part of transilvania and some other parts too
Great video on the topic!
Personally (as a Hungarian) I think due to the intensive magyarization and the political climate at the time (some version of) Trianon was pretty much inevitable.
The way it was executed was pretty fucked up though. At the minimum parts of Transylvania and the partium could've stayed within Hungary if they followed actual ethnic distribution.
Of course as mentioned the infamous red map probably didn't help.
In any case what happened happened. As the saying goes demography is destiny.
We Hungarians learned to live with it and I think minority rights and international relations in the region did improve over time.
I'd say the biggest threat to everyone in the region is not their neighbors anymore but their own low birth rates. But that is another topic.
Thank you for making this video. I learned so much from this. I myself am planning to make three videos about this topic one day since this is - somewhat - affects me. My paternal grandfather and the entire maternal side of my family is from Transylvania. My first video would be about the entire shitshow that accompanied the end of World War One in Hungary between 1918, the Aster Revolution and the second royalist coup attempt in 1922. My second video would be about the Magyarisation efforts of the 19th century and basically the why of Trianon. The third would be about the life and history of the Hungarian diaspora post-Trianon to this day.
While I do consider Trianon as a tragedy being a typical Hungaraian, I also think that this somewhat a tragedy of our own making. Something we really should learn from and not something we should reverse.
Sad that you learning from these uneducated videos.
That really horrible, when soneone with such low knowledge as János, can explain anything about the hungarian history before such a big public. This is the dark side of CZcams, that Big Nobodys can teach about false things to the mob...
@@kevhynaleks2631 my brother in christ take a shower
@@peenmeen412 You can go there also
@@kevhynaleks2631 learn to speak english properly before trying to roast someone
@@peenmeen412 Nobody questioning my english, but looks you are unable to do anything else, just personalizing the debate.
Janus not a historian, he makes a lot of mistakes, gives incorrect explanations, omits important elements. He became famous for his funny silly videos, but it would be nice if he would hold back himself, when talking about things he knows so little about.
The biggest problem with Trianon for Hungarians, especially for those who became minorities in other countries (myself included), isn't the fact that the treaty happened, but how unfairly it happened. Yes, Hungary lost the war, it was multicultural state, it lost territories with absolute or relative Slovak, Romanian etc majorities. That was hurtful, but totally acceptable, since the treaty based itself on the "right of the self-determination of peoples".
The problems began when it came to the question of territories with absolute Hungarian population. The "right of the self-determination of peoples" was either fully ignored, or outright falsified and dictated. Borders of the new Hungary weren't based on any ethnic lines, but on out right strategic interests. As mentioned in the video, 1/3 of the total Hungarian population (3,3 million) became a minority, and the majority of them in territories where they made up, and in many cases make up the absolute majority, even to this day. If you look at an ethnic map either from the 1920s or a nowadays one, you can see that the majority of outside Hungarian population is concentrated on the borders of modern Hungary (sure there are exceptions like Székelyland etc). And for some reason this fact is always downplayed by outsiders when talking about the issue and they only look at the big piecharts which say "oh look, the Hungarians are whining again, even tho they make up only 10-20% in the statistical area which was specifically created to downplay their local majorities".
Even tho THIS IS THE PROBLEM of Trianon. It's not a trauma and tragedy because Hungary lost 4 million Romanians, 2,5 million Slovaks, up to a million Germans, Slavs or even Croatia itself, but because it lost 3,3 million Hungarians, whose loss was not justified by the treaty itself, since it was (supposedly) based on the "right of the self-determination of peoples".
Trianon might be justified, but it doesn't make it just.
Edit: typo
Non Plus Ultra
There was just no way to accurately draw the borders back then. I think the modern borders are a compromise. Romania at the time wanted to get everything East of Tisa after all.
Borders of WWII Hungary is best Hungary.
@@Player-re9mo There was Teleki's 'red map' about the ethnicity of Hungary (which was based on the census of 1910). It was the most accurate document about the ethnicites in the territory of Great-Hungary, but at the Trianon treaties the great powers refused to use it as a starting point for the new borders.
(hu.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A1jl:Ethnographic_map_of_hungary_1910_by_teleki_carte_rouge.jpg - Wikipedia link where you can find it)
@@Noone.05 I watched The Great War show, and there is says that Teleki's map was biased towards Hungary. And with just one quick look at it, I can see why. This is very different from so many other 1910 census maps, making Hungarians look so much more than they really were.
Technically Hungary Got Brougth In To WWI By Austria Soo i Think Trianon Was Kinda Of Unfair :p
Technically true, however it is more complex than that :D Hungarians didn't wanted cooperate in everything that Austria do, but couldn't leave the Monarchia either cause of 1848 and some other stuff.
Not really true, I would like to talk about the million comments from Hungarians saying that Hungary didn't want to be in the war and that they where forced into it by the Austrians, this way denouncing the Belgrade armistice and also somehow justifying their comments about how they should reverse Trianon. Anyways, this statement isn't really correct. Yes the Hungarian Prime minister Tisza was against the war and there where some in the Hungarian parliament who shared his views but saying Hungary didn't want the war due to these statements is like saying US didn't want to declare the war of 1812 just because some people in the congress voted against it. Most Hungarians voted in favor. The fact remains Austria-Hungary couldn't have declared war if Hungary didn't approve it. And despite Tisza initial disagreement, he eventually did agree to the war with Tisza saying "It was with difficulty that I decided to advise war, but I am now convinced of its necessity." Plus many Hungarians even actively supported the war at the start like Stephan Burián von Rajecz this support can also be seen through the large enlistment enthusiasm of the Hungarians at the start of the war.
@@catalinmarius3985everybody was enthusiastic about the war and tisza only agreed to this Quick war if we won't claim any land from the enemy. It wasn't a quick war and it sucked for everybody bc wars suck but it sucked for more than others after the versailles peace talks
Yeah, and still, Austria managed to get some land from them as well.
Isn't curious that Austria get some land after they start the war?
@@feco91
Best Peace Treaty Ever.
Never forget nor forgive.
The land Hungary stolen and failed to keep
Thanks for the video!
Én is köszönöm az adományt!
...aand that would be 1 euro
@@raduromanesti6408 name checks out
Love your videos!💚😊
The Treaty of Trianon was drawn up and crafted by the major powers who actually were victorious after World War 1. Who were these powers? This video, purposely avoided this question. The major world powers were the United States of America, The United Kingdom, named Great Britain, and to a lesser extent France. Italy withdrew from the negotiations and left the peace conference in disgust. So, what countries were left to make any decisions in Paris? In the main, it was the US and Great Britain who ruled the peace conference in every way, and without their placid agreement nobody, no other power could make any decisions about the future of the Kingdom of Hungary or Hungary itself. In order to prove this very point, at one stage of the negotiations it was agreed that Hungary as a Country should completely be abolished and removed from the World map. The US representatives in the end agreed to this proposition, however the representatives of Great Britain vetoed this decision, saying, "little Hungary may remain", and as a result we to this day have the existence of Truncated Hungary today, being the member of the EU and NATO.
Remember friends Poland 🇵🇱♥️🇭🇺Hungary
I'm sorry Hungary was punished for Austria'a greed, my Polish heart cannot suffer such injustice.
❤
Cry 😊
@@userAndrew5 common thiefs and rats lmao
its funny how people always say Hungary and Poland are so close when 1/3 of Romanians are at least for some degree all Hungarians ( me and my family included) . I see HU and RO as a family , more than Poland and HU
Bro it wasn't punishment, Slovaks and Romanians got land on same grounds as poland did, "self determination"
I think the worst thing that happened to Hungary is when the US left them face the soviets on their own
Love the Production’s, YoungFella🙏🤣❣️🤙 Keep Up the Great Work😉😂
Halászbástya (in hungarian) or fishing bastion, I recently went there (on sunday) and if you plan to go to Budapest the view is awesome there but I can't forget the fact that I love this channel but more importantly I am hungarian and I come here to here my soul with these types of videos
Fisherman's bastion, not fishing bastion. :D
You'd need a very, very long fishing pole, the Danube is far. In the middle ages, that part of the castle wall was protected by the fisherman's guild, hence the name.
@@peterfalvay thanks
But we are europeans now, Schengen is the reason why these sort of things shouldn't matter, if Austria actually let us in by land.
They won't because they fear millions of migrants will cross the Turkish-Bulgarian border and migrate to Austria
I wish, but we have idiot asshole Fascist politicians like Orbán and Fico, guaranteeing no calm and prosperity for the foreseeable future.
Austrians are smart. They know if they let you in in 50 years Wien will be an ancient daco roman city which was stolen by the Austrians. Always good to keep the gypsies at the border of the town :) 😂😂😂😂
It's sad, but as a Transylvanian magyar I can't understand people who still mourne the old Hungary, y'all can call me a traitor or anything, but it wouldn't be better if we were part of Hungary, both countries economy and politics sucks and as long as u speak a bit of Romanian u are respected even by Romanians, it's not that bad, usually u still fond Hungarian shops and people in big cities so even if u have problem with Romanian u can still get trough life without problems.
We shouldn't have joined WW2, simple as that. Nowdays the only thing we should strive for is preserving what hasn't been already lost. The demographic decline of Hungarians must stop at any cost.
@@Medvelelet that very true and it shows how historical events can transform geopolitical landscape in a short time : poland got absolutly destroyed in ww2 and suffered greatly during the occupation but now they are poised to be a dominant player in central and eastern Europe, whereas hungary went mostly unharmed during the war but now are reduced to a minor state with very little influence
@@yc6018 Mostly unharmed during the war? Thats like saying the jews were unharmed during WW2. After the fascists couped Horthy and the soviets entered the country, the battle was fought from house to house. Most of our gold was given to the germans, the industry was destroyed, the cities were left in ruin, and what remained was left to the communists to manage.
As a Romanian who went to Szekelyland 3 times, I love the shock on people's faces when they start to speak with me in Hungarian and then I respond in Romanian, and then they switch to Romanian.
@@Medvelelet alright my bad I meant mostly unharmed before 1944 and the fascist coup
What is most interesting for a historian is that the Triune Kingdom of Croatia was never part of the Kingdom of Hungary, as mentioned in the Trianon the border fallows the old Croatian - Hungarian border. But most Hungarian nationalist put maps of the St Stephan union of Croatia and Hungary and confuse it with Hungary itself
That's why they are so unhappy, because they do not know what that map represents.
For all the people that are crying because "The Treaty of Trianon" i want you to remember that this was only a ethical justice for the surpressed nations like romanians and slovakians, who were actually the "white slaves for Hungarians and Austrians". But trust me, "The Treaty of Bucharest 1916", if implemented, that coud be even worser for Hungary. So in comparison, the treaty of Trianon, is nothing than justice
Just letting u know everytime u say your name (im hungarain) makes me feel sad everytime cause i know some of your realitves for sure grown up in hungarian culture. It means u and your family was hit by the triannon treaty in some ways... Great video time to remember again of this piece of history...
@livingIronicallyinEurope
Great video - points for including finno-ucric language cousins in by adding clip of Finnish newspaper to it :D
10:45.
Thank you man! This was really funny!
As a Finn born 82 years after the Great War I am deeply offended by the mistreatment of my Ugric brothers
realy? And when you were opressed by Sweden, was it cool? And it was norhing like what Hungarian politics do to Slovaks, Romanians etc..Don't talk about something what you don't understand.
@@miso3685 When we were part of the kingdom of Sweden it was pretty cool
Based arctic bro
@@MegaJani He's probably not arctic, only 2% of Finlands population lives in the arctic
@@Spacemongerr Yeah but it sounds cool
Actually a balanced video, i liked it!
János gratulálok/congrat! You showed on a very well way this injustice peace dictate and why was a national tragedy what never gone in the minds. High five!
Hello, I am from hungary. This was the perfect trianon video. Köszönöm szépen, witch means thank you.
Thx for the video this was a lot of fun and more rage endorsing than any history lesson XDD thank you. Jó volt :D
In 1918 when war was already over, Ferdinand Juriga, slovak politician,
asked in Hungarian parlament for fedearalisation (FEDEARALISATION, not seccesion, that came later) of Hungarian Kingdom and he ask self-determining right for Slovaks. Nice magyar colleagues started scream to him nice things as "gazember" and "noose for him". After his speech, István Tisza called "kreuzer comedy" and he irrited said, that if Juriga want be serious, he can't says these nonsense. Btw, before Trianon, thanks to Furiga's speech Apponyi in 16th january 1919 in Paris argument, that Slovaks in reality don't want leave Kingdom. Autonomy in Kingdom for minorities were promised to Wilson even in 5th October 1918 by Tisza, Apponyi, Károlyi, Andrássi and company, just to during of conference with Emperor Charles two day later when they said, that something like that is absolutly unacceptable.
fix ur grammar man xd
It's so sad, because for both countries it would have been a way better solution. Tho now with the two having the two most fascit and least democratic gov. in the EU they are getting closer (ironicly enough) 😂
First, i can't understand what do you want to say at the last sentences.
Second, are there any online resource to it? I tried to search maybe i can find Hungarian one but other the fedearlisation idea mentioned twice, couldn't find more about the speech or anything)
This is mostly right, but did u know that Hungary had the first Minority laws for slovaks and Romanians, there were no country in Europe that had Minority laws or anything like that at the time. The Magyarization was ruled by a communist goverment. In Slovakia today there is still Slovakization to this day, and we still suffer from it. Kids NEED to learn slovak and we can only talk slovak in goverment buildings, only a few cities have hungarian administration, so yeah. I-m not sayin we were angels in the past, but we didn't deserved that loss. And don't even get me started about the 76 000 hungarians deported from slovakia.
Peace from Slovakia 🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺
@@flavoredmoney29 Did you just not watch the video...mainly when magyarisation was being mentioned?
That's why we are no.1 in alcohol consumption
It is a known fact Atilla the Hun was the first one in Transilvania.
But the question is, who stole his horse?
Ppl from the west
@@VickyshokaRomani...s